← Something You Should Know
Something You Should Know
Why You Wear Your Hair That Way & The Surprising Science of Human Stupidity
00:50:26
Loading summary
Transcript83 lines
- [00:01]
Narrator/Advertiser
There is so much talk about women's hormonal health, which is great. But even though it's a bigger part of the conversation, most women are left even more confused about what it means for them and what to do about it, which is not so great. This confusion ends now. An award winning German nutrition scientist created a powerful herbal formula called Hormone harmony which combines 12 powerful adaptogens into one single capsule. Each of these ingredients is carefully selected based on scientific evidence and it's been proven effective in clinical studies for women of various ages and hormonal profiles. And Happy Mammoth, the company that produces Hormone Harmony, is famous for its zero compromise policy. No GMOs, artificial fillers or flavors or any other junk. Only science backed ingredients in amounts that are clinically proven. The company surveyed over 1500 women to see how Hormone Harmony helped them and the results are mind blowing. 86% of women started losing weight, 77% say it improved their mood, and 100% said they're feeling like themselves again. Hormone harmony has over 50,000 raving reviews from women all over the world, with 98% of them saying they'd gladly recommend it to their friends and family. For a limited time, you can get 15% off on your entire first order@happy mammoth.com just use the code happyme H A P P Y M E at checkout. That's code happyme@happymammoth.com for 15% off your entire first order.
- [01:36]
Mike Carruthers
Today on something you should know. When you rent an Airbnb home, what are you supposed to do about those security cameras? Then the story of human hair and hairstyles. The Bob, the pixie, the Rachel, the mullet.
- [01:52]
Rachel Gibson
The mullet is such a bold haircut. There's nothing subtle about it. It's quite a strange haircut. And it's a hybrid of long hair and short hair. And that is why people have such strong reactions either way towards it. People either love them or hate them.
- [02:06]
Mike Carruthers
Also, how to stop ruminating because it does you no good. And the science of human stupidity some wonderful examples of it and why we may be getting more stup.
- [02:17]
Cesare Pietresic
So since 1995, our IQ in the Western world is declining. So basically there's this research from I think IBM that frequent messaging and being bombarded by texts is decreasing our IQ by 10 points.
- [02:31]
Mike Carruthers
All this today on something you should know. You know, I remember the first time I had to hire someone and I thought it would be quick and easy. But posting on random job boards and sorting through applications and waiting for the right person and it Took forever and I never thought I was very good at it. I really wish I'd had INDEED back then because they make hiring fast and simple. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Instead of struggling to get your job post noticed, Indeed's Sponsored Jobs helps you stand out. See, your post jumps right to the top for candidates you're looking for so you reach the right people faster. And it works. According to INDEED data, sponsored jobs get 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. That's a big difference. What I love is how fast it is. In fact, in just the time I've been Talking to you, 23 hires were made on Indeed According to Indeed data worldwide. And with Sponsored Jobs, there's no monthly subscription, no long term contracts. You only pay for results. It's no Wonder More than 3 1/2 million employers worldwide use Indeed to hire great talent fast. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com something just go to Indeed.com something right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed On Something you should know. Indeed.com Something terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Something you should know Fascinating intel, the world's top experts and practical advice you.
- [04:24]
Cesare Pietresic
Can use in your life today.
- [04:27]
Mike Carruthers
Something you should know with Mike Carruthers. If you ever stay in a short term rental like an Airbnb, there's something you have to be concerned about that was never a problem a few years ago. And that's what we're going to start with today. Hi, I'm Mike Carruthers and I welcome you to this episode of Something you should know. So when you stay at somebody's short term rental like an Airbnb or a VRBO rental, it is someone's home. And it is common for homes to have surveillance cameras ring cameras at the door, which means when you rent it, the owner of that property can from their home watch you come and go from the house, see who else comes and goes. And it can feel a little creepy, like you're being watched. But it gets weirder. In a survey by a company called IPX 1031, nearly half of the people surveyed, 47% say they discovered a camera in a rental property they were staying in, a significant increase from just 25% in 2023. Now, last year Airbnb banned the use of all indoor cameras. VRBO also does not allow cameras indoors but in the survey of 1,000 people, it's clear those rules are often not followed. Among those renters who found a camera, one in five of them was in a common area, a bedroom or a bathroom. Now, before the ban last year, Airbnb did allow indoor cameras in common areas like hallways and living rooms. But now all indoor cameras are not allowed at all, and hosts are required to disclose the general location of outdoor cameras. Alarmingly, 55% of Airbnb hosts admit to still using surveillance cameras indoors, even after the company's ban last year. Many say they just need to to make sure the rules are being followed. And that is something you should know. You know, a lot of listeners have asked, how can I best support something you should know? And the answer is, become a premium member. For just a few dollars a month, you'll help keep the show going and get some great perks, too. You'll get daily bonus mini episodes filled with fascinating intel. Plus, you'll get every regular episode commercial free. Get all the details@syskpremium.com on top of your head There is, or at least there was, hair. And for many, many centuries, humans have had to figure out what to do with it. We cut it, we style it, we color it, and we use it to make a statement about who we are. So what's the story and the history of all of this? Where do hairstyles come from? Why do they fade away? Why is hair so important? I mean, think about it. When you leave the house to go out, what's one of the last things you do to make sure you look good? You check and fix your hair. And it seems we've been doing this since almost forever. Rachel Gibson is a very knowledgeable hair historian. She posts some wonderful content about hair on her Instagram account, which there's a link to in the show notes. And she's here to talk about hair. Hi, Rachel. Welcome to Something youg Should Know.
- [08:00]
Rachel Gibson
Hi, Mike. Thank you so much for having me.
- [08:02]
Mike Carruthers
So how far back do we know people actually paid attention to this? Like, you know, your hair's there and your hair's there, but when did somebody say, you know, what if we combed it this way? Or what if we did this to it? Or what if we cut it this way? Do we have any idea when that started?
- [08:21]
Rachel Gibson
I think it's kind of one of my favorite things about the topic of studying hair is because it really connects us to the past and it serves as a helpful reminder that the desire to transform our appearance is absolutely nothing new. We have Recipes for hair dyes and styling products that date back to. To ancient civilizations. And I think what's particularly interesting is that the key concerns remain very similar to today, so namely covering gray hair and preventing balding. They're sort of the general topics that have lasted from day one till now. We know that from the earliest times, people have sought to change their hair, to style their hair, to do things with their hair. And there are so many examples of how it ties into religion, to life stages, to kind of ceremonial experiences that people live through. So there's lots of reasons why people have been interested in their hair. And it isn't always just down to vanity. It is often tied to a bigger thing as well.
- [09:19]
Mike Carruthers
If you're going to style your hair and color your hair and cut your hair at some point, and I mean, this may not even be a real question, but you also have to clean your hair. And I wonder, like, have people always washed their hair, or was that part of this evolution of styling and things that, you know, we need to keep this clean so we can do stuff with it?
- [09:44]
Rachel Gibson
Sure. One of the solutions to keeping hair clean has often been to shave the head and to use wigs instead, because that means you don't have to worry so much about having things like knits or oily hair or anything like that. And we see Roman knit combs exist in museums. You go see them, and they look exactly the same as the knit combs that we have today. They haven't changed in design at all. And I think even if people didn't have access to running water and shampoo in the same way that we do, they were certainly concerned with keeping things out of their hair and combing it and grooming it in such a way that it would keep clean.
- [10:23]
Mike Carruthers
Given how much trouble hair can be, it would seem that you would just want to generally keep it short rather than keep it long. But we see movies and histories of things that make it look like long hair for both men and women, has been fashionable on and off forever.
- [10:42]
Rachel Gibson
Yeah, long hair is really associated with kind of health and vitality. You know, if you can grow a thick, lovely, luscious head of hair, it's a really instant signifier to anyone that sees you that you are a healthy person. And particularly for women, this has always been really intrinsically linked with kind of reproduction and being able to have children. But you're right for men, too. Having a lot of healthy hair tells the world that you are a healthy person.
- [11:07]
Mike Carruthers
Well, at some point, somebody must have said, or it just Happened that we generally associate shorter hair with men and longer hair with women. When did that, has that always been.
- [11:22]
Rachel Gibson
No, it hasn't always been. So when we think about powdered wigs, and particularly in England and in Europe, we have a large period of time where men are wearing big powdered wigs. And there's a man who I like to talk about who is really kind of responsible for what you just asked is he's called Francis Russell. And in the 18th century he decided to stop wearing a powdered wig. There was hair powder tax was brought in here in England in May 1795 and he was annoyed at having to pay this. So basically if you wore a powdered wig you had to pay a tax and if you didn't pay the tax, you would be publicly vilified. And he decided one day that he just wanted to stop paying this. So he stopped wearing a powdered wig and he started being seen in polite society, in London society with his natural, short, unstyled hair, which is the kind of hair that we see most men wear most of the time today. But it was very scandalous at a time when most people wore white powdered wigs, often with bows and curls. And it slowly caught on amongst his set, his group, and he almost single handedly changed the way that men in the west at least wore their hair forever. Nobody wears powdered wigs now and he is kind of the person to think so I always think of him as being quite an interesting figure in a time when particularly men's hair really changed its style and became what we know today.
- [12:47]
Mike Carruthers
One of the things I find interesting is when I look back at pictures growing of me growing up, or I look back at pictures of say, people at a party in the 60s and you can say to some degree about their clothes as well. But I often look at hair and pictures of me when I was young in my hair and think, what was I thinking? I mean, it looks horrible.
- [13:16]
Rachel Gibson
I think we all have our regrets with our hairstyles. I know I certainly do. And I think that's to the point of being caught up in a trend. And that's something that today's generation are probably going to have less of because you're able to curate your style and change it so much more. And you have much more of a vision of yourself. You know, you have your photo taken, or you can take a photo of yourself a thousand times a day if you want to, and make sure that you look exactly as you want to. So I do think we're going to lose some of those embarrassing moments. And I think it's interesting how technology and the art of sort of recording our own image has influenced hair trends. And there's been a trend recently for young men having what is sometimes called this llama haircut, this curly hair on the top, kind of short hair, very curly on the top. And one of the theories of why that's so popular is people spending so much time looking down into their phone screens. So you want a hairstyle that falls forward more and that kind of fills the frame of the camera. And it's so interesting that technology. I mean, technology influences hair all the time in terms of product development, but in terms of how a phone could change a hairstyle, I think that's really fascinating and a very current issue that we haven't really thought about before. And during lockdown, there was this real trend, certainly amongst people in the uk for the mullet revival really came back. And again, that's often we discussed this idea that that's down to the fact that people are looking at themselves in a camera all day. So you want something that's kind of visually interesting from the front, that you can also see the back of your hair. You can see the hair hanging down at the back as well as the front. So all of these things, like phones and the way that we communicate online, have really influenced hairstyles beyond just trends circulating more widely.
- [15:05]
Mike Carruthers
Well, the mullet is iconic in the sense that. I mean, I don't know much about hairstyles, but the mullet stands out as if you say that word. I know exactly what you mean. And, you know, it's got a lot of ridicule as a hairstyle, but also, I guess it was very popular.
- [15:26]
Rachel Gibson
The mullet is such an interesting hairstyle and I feel like I talk about mullets all the time because I'm very interested in them. But, you know, it's a hairstyle that has a long history. This, obviously, it wasn't called a mullet, but hair that's short in the front and long at the back has been around for a very long time. It has its roots as a quite a practical military haircut. So you see it in ancient Greece and Rome and amongst the Vikings and amongst some early Native American groups as well. And it's this idea that you have, or men tended to have long hair, which is good for keeping you warm and, you know, the many other reasons people might have long hair hair, but having it short at the front meant that you were able to see better and your hair wasn't going to be grabbed when you were in combat. So, you know, the hairstyle may not have been called the mullet, but versions of that are very popular for a long time. And, yeah, in terms of more modern history, we start seeing it in the 1970s when the Ziggy Stardust moment. And it's very fashionable for a while, but as with anything that starts as a trend amongst a subculture, it eventually becomes more mainstream and then it became the giant version that I suppose people think of a lot for the 80s and 90s. And that's when it really becomes, you know, over for so many people and it becomes a bit of a joke. But it has definitely had a revival and certainly where I am in London, there is a big mullet moment and people are very fond of them. And I think it's because the Gen Z generation don't have memories of it being an embarrassing haircut. To them, it's something cool they found a picture of. And there is no association with it of being anything embarrassing or cheesy at all.
- [17:01]
Mike Carruthers
But is there any sense of why specifically the mullet, which was so popular, became this item of ridicule? Like, why did people turn on it? I mean, it wasn't just that it faded away, people made fun of it. And unlike so many other hairstyles, I mean, you could sit and talk about lots of hairstyles from the 60s and 50s that look silly compared to today, but people don't do that. But the mullet seems to attract ridicule.
- [17:36]
Rachel Gibson
I think it's a very bold haircut. It's very confrontational. When we think of those 80s ones particularly, it's a very larger than life hairstyle. There's nothing subtle about it and it is very dramatic. And I think that's why people have such a visceral reaction to it. It's not pretty on a woman and it's not kind of considered handsome on a man. It's quite a strange haircut and it's a hybrid of long hair and short hair and there's lots of volume in them and perming a lot of the time. So I think it's just quite a strange haircut and that is why people have such strong reactions either way towards it. People either love them or hate them.
- [18:15]
Mike Carruthers
We're talking about why and how people style their hair the way they do. And my guest is hair historian Rachel Gibson. You know, it usually takes a lot for me to get excited about clothes shopping, but with fall and cooler weather coming, I'm actually looking forward to stocking up at Quint's. See, they've become my go to for fall staples that actually last cashmere denim boots, you name it. The quality really holds up and the prices are a lot lower than you'd expect. See, here's the thing. Shopping online, my biggest worry is always is it really going to look and feel as good when it shows up as it did online? Well, with Quince it always does. I've got a couple of their 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters. They just start at 60 bucks and they are unbelievably soft. Their denim fits great and wears really well. And their leather jackets, I haven't bought one yet but that clean classic look without the big price tag is very enticing. And what I love is that Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen. And so you're getting top quality fabrics and craftsmanship for about half the price of the fancy brands. I've got polo shirts from them I practically live in and people ask me all the time where I got them and I just ordered a new dress shirt. Look, if you want to keep it classic and cool this fall, upgrade with long lasting staples from quince go to quince.comsysk for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's quince.comsysk free shipping and 365 day returns at quince.comsysk if you have struggled with your weight, you already have heard about these new weight loss medications that do seem to work for a lot of people. But maybe you think yeah, well, but I've tried to lose weight before and I just can't do it well. 2. These weight loss medications do seem to work for a lot of people and the fact is being overweight carries some serious health risks. It's worth checking out and hers can help. Hers connects you with a medical provider who will work with you to determine the best treatment option for you. If prescribed, you get medication as part of a doctor developed weight loss program complete with ongoing care check ins, medication adjustments and access to their online support at no additional cost. HERS weight loss plans are built around oral medication kits and GLP1 injectable options and oral medication kits start at just $69 a month with a 10 month plan when paid up front. Look, being overweight is no fun and it's not healthy. Trying to lose weight on your own usually doesn't work. Whether you want to lose weight, grow thicker fuller hair or find relief or anxiety, hers has you covered. Visit forhers.com something to get a personalized, affordable plan that gets you. That's f o r h e r s.com something forhers.com something weight loss by hers is not available everywhere. Compounded products are not approved or reviewed for safety, effectiveness or quality by the fda. Prescription required. See website for full details, important safety information and restrictions. Actual price depends on product and plan purchased. So, Rachel, when I look back at some hairstyles, say, of the 60s and the 50s and the 40s, it looked like it had to be a lot of work. And I wonder, like, do hairstyles change? Because people say, you know, I just don't have the time to keep this up.
- [22:13]
Rachel Gibson
Absolutely. That's a huge part of why trends change. And when we think about to reference Marianne Antoinette again, or those elaborate hairstyles from days gone by when a woman could sit for hours and have her hair dressed by a hairdresser, even at that point, those hairstyles were only for people who could have the time and money to achieve such things. But looking in more recent history, when the bob comes in the 19, well, 1910s, 1920s, that's very much linked to what's happening with women's liberation and women being more free to do more things with their life than sit at home and have their hair done. And we see it again in the 1960s when Vidal Sassoon cuts bobs in London very famously, and that becomes a big trend. And he talked about wanting to do hairstyles that were wash and wear so you could just have a shower at home and leave. You didn't have to go to the salon once a week to have your hair permed and set and sit there for a couple of hours. You know, it really marks a shift in specifically women's lifestyles, I suppose, the change from a 1950s housewife to a 1960s woman who might be managing a job and a household. And this idea of a haircut that didn't require lots of effort and was able to just be washed and left and it looked perfect, that really marks a big change in people's lifestyle. So I think the time that people have to spend on their hair is really does dictate trends.
- [23:39]
Mike Carruthers
My sense about men's hair, at least in recent history, was that it wasn't a real exciting topic for many decades, maybe until the Beatles, and then everything seemed to change. Is that a fair assessment?
- [23:56]
Rachel Gibson
Yeah, I think we have a lot of interesting hairstyles for the Teddy Boys and that kind of late 40s, early 50s rock and roll moment. But certainly the Beatles made a big change. And I think it's interesting how scandalous their hairstyles were seen, because to us, who generally are quite used to seeing men with longer hair or different styles of hair, you might think they might look slightly silly hairstyles, perhaps, but you certainly don't think they're scandalous. But people were really outraged by this longer hair. So it definitely marked a really big moment. And I think that era of 1950s into the 60s, when teenagers are really becoming a big marketing group of their own and trends are being directly targeted at teenagers, all of that changes. And music plays such a huge part in that. And I think we then go on into the 70s, which is obviously a really fascinating time for hair history because we have the punk movement. And that's when color, you know, hair coloring really becomes a big trend and becomes much more widespread, much more acceptable. Obviously the punk movement was very extreme, but it did usher in these products that allowed you to have bright colored hair for the first time.
- [25:04]
Mike Carruthers
So the punk movement and some of the hairstyles that came out of that are a good example of what I'm gonna ask you. And that is people will say, well, you know, why is your hair that way? Well, it's. I'm making a statement, but like, I don't know what the statement is. It's just different. It's a different hairstyle. But unless you explain the statement you're making, I wouldn't know. And you know, punk, you know, with very spiky hair and all, I don't know what it's saying other than my hair is different.
- [25:36]
Rachel Gibson
So I think punk is a great example of hair demonstrating status. It's a total rejection of societal expectations. It's an expression, or, you know, at that time at least was an expression of a combination of anger and wanting to rebel against what had gone before. And also creativity and this idea of being quite experimental and trying things. And I think the reason I mention punk is I find it fascinating that most hairstyles these days don't particularly shock us. But the Mohican is one of very few hairstyles that still has the power to really turn heads and surprise people. If someone walks into a room with a two foot high green Mohican, you will have a reaction. And there aren't many hairstyles left that have that impact. But I think that speaks to the purpose of them, which is this rejection of society. It's very purposefully not natural. No one is going to mistake that for a natural hairstyle. You have done something very specific to be confrontational. And I suppose that's the appeal.
- [26:44]
Mike Carruthers
What about hair color? I mean, I understand people will color their hair strange colors like purple and green that are not natural hair colors to be different. But, you know, women have been coloring their hair blonde to be blonde for forever and changing their hair color, but not shockingly change it, but they would rather be blonde than a brunette. And I'm curious why that is.
- [27:15]
Rachel Gibson
I mean, colorful hair is nothing new. Again, that dates back to ancient Greece, ancient Rome. People have always used whatever they could get their hands on really to change the color of their hair. I think speaking specifically to blonde, it's such a scarce color in nature. Very few, few people have naturally blonde hair. They might have mousy brown hair, which is quite light, but, you know, pure blonde hair is very rare. And scarcity always attracts people, and that's why people want to imitate it. But yeah, we see ancient recipes going back to the earliest times of people wanting to change their hair color. Probably my favorite one is Venetian women during the Renaissance who bleached their hair. They actually used horse urine to go blonde, which I know sounds very unpleasant and I'm sure it's did not smell nice either. But it contains ammonia, which is an effective bleaching substance and is used to bleach hair. So although the product isn't very nice, there are contemporaneous anecdotes and even illustrations of women in Renaissance Venice sitting on roof terraces wearing hats which have holes in so their hair can be pulled through, which would allow the sun to work with the ammonia and bleach their hair. You know, we see examples throughout history of people doing quite extreme things in order to become blonde. And when we see someone's hair, we make lots of assumptions about that person based on their appearance. And we have, yeah, so many connotations with what being blonde means that it's no surprise that I think people will suffer to be blonde.
- [28:45]
Mike Carruthers
It does seem that in recent history, anyway, that hairstyles have changed. The driving force for hairstyle changes has been, in many cases, people in the entertainment business. You think of Clara Bow, Farrah Fawcett, Jennifer Aniston with these iconic hairstyles that people seem to really gravitate to.
- [29:09]
Rachel Gibson
Yeah, those in positions of power have really always inspired other people with their fashion and beauty choices. I'll mention Marie Antoinette again. She inspired high society. And her hair was reported on in the newspapers of the time in really great detail, Much like the kind of get the look features you see in magazines today. So people have always been very interested in that. And I think as we go into 20th century, obviously the birth of really popular media and cinema and color photography really make a big difference. And I think a really interesting candidate would be Veronica Lake with the famous peekaboo waves, which were really popular in the 1940s. In fact, that was so popular that she had to do a public safety campaign during the second World War, asking women factory workers in the US to not wear their hair like her because it was really dangerous for people doing practical work. So they made this video with her showing you how to style your hair in a slightly different way.
- [30:05]
Mike Carruthers
Jennifer Aniston's hair became, you know, a big thing. And she was on that show Friends. Well, there were other women on that show Friends, but nobody like ran to copy their hairstyles. There was something about hers that really seemed to strike a chord with people.
- [30:22]
Rachel Gibson
I think that haircut is such a good example of the kind of your hair but better idea, which people always strive to, which is it doesn't look overly done, it just looks really kind of natural and beautiful. And we think, oh, I could make my hair like that. And the irony is her hair is naturally very thick and curly. And she talked about in interviews after the show had gone out years later, saying how difficult it was to maintain that hairstyle and that she couldn't do it herself at home. You know, it had to be blow dried by her hairdresser, Chris McMillan, who was able to, you know, get it really straight and glossy. But the appearance of it on the show, I think so many people are very invested in this idea of it's kind of a girl next door beauty. It doesn't look overly done, although the irony is it did take a huge amount of effort to get it. But it does look sort of natural but beautiful. And we kind of think it's achievable for us to get ourselves at home.
- [31:19]
Mike Carruthers
Well, I have to admit that I never really thought much about the history and the psychology of hair as being a topic, but it's really interesting and I appreciate you sharing it. Rachel Gibson has been my guest. She is a hair historian. She has an Instagram account with lots of cool content on this topic. She's heirhistorian at Instagram and there's a link to it in the show notes as well. Thank you, Rachel.
- [31:46]
Rachel Gibson
Thank you so much. I'm glad it was interesting. I'm always, always happy to talk hair history.
- [31:51]
Narrator/Advertiser
You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Progressive, loves to help people make smart choices. That's why they offer a tool called Auto Quote Explorer that allows you to compare your Progressive Car Insurance quote with rates from other companies so you save time on the research and can enjoy savings. When you choose the best rate for you, give it a try after this episode@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.
- [32:24]
Mike Carruthers
Starting your own business can feel overwhelming. I mean, you've got this great idea, but then the to do list hits you Website Payments, Inventory, Marketing, Shipping Suddenly it feels like you need to be an expert at 10 different jobs just to get started. Which is why so many people never get started. The good news is you don't have to figure it out alone because Shopify makes it possible. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of business around the world, powering 10% of all E commerce in the US. Household names like Mattel and Gymshark use it, but so do first time entrepreneurs launching from their kitchen table. And you don't need to be a designer. With hundreds of ready to go templates, Shopify helps you create a beautiful online store that fits your brand. And you don't need to be a copywriter either because their AI tools can write product descriptions, headlines and even enhance your product photos. And when it comes to getting noticed, Shopify helps you run smart email and social media campaigns that make you feel like you've got a marketing team working for you. Plus, they're experts in all the behind the scenes stuff. Inventory, payments, shipping, returns so you can focus on the idea and not the headaches. Turn your big business idea into With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com sysk go to shopify.com sysk shopify.com sysk you and everyone else has some story that illustrates the depths of human stupidity, right? I mean, we've all witnessed people doing really stupid things and history is full of stories of people doing really stupid things. However, people also do amazingly wonderful, brilliant things. We're really good at that too. So why do we do stupid things? Well, that's what we're going to talk about with Cesare Pietresic. He is co owner of Synerise, a global AI leader in predicting human behavior. He's a former investment banker at JP Morgan and he is author of a book called Homo Idioticus why We Are Stupid and what to Do About It. Hi Suzari.
- [34:54]
Cesare Pietresic
Hello.
- [34:55]
Mike Carruthers
Hi.
- [34:55]
Cesare Pietresic
Good to be here.
- [34:57]
Mike Carruthers
So I love this topic Because I think everybody has had the experience of thinking about all the great things human beings have done and yet how stupid people are. And just in everyday encounters with people go, God, that guy's. That's the stupidest thing I've ever seen. So this paradox, explain it. I mean, what is it?
- [35:19]
Cesare Pietresic
The human stupidity has several layers of causation. Some of them are really serious and difficult to change. For example, biology. There's other layers that we created ourselves, such as psychology, which mostly boils down to the biases that we have and heuristics, the simplifications that we make in everyday life life. Or how we structured our society and how we structured our institutions.
- [35:44]
Mike Carruthers
Well, I know there are many to choose from, but give me an example of really good human stupidity so we can dive into this and then we'll go from there.
- [35:55]
Cesare Pietresic
Look at San Francisco, for example, right? It's the city I used to live in for a long time. This is the city which created such stupid policies. And this is another layer of stupidity, right? Societal stupidity, which is mostly related to conformity. So the society there created such stupid rules which do not recommend or do not allow to solve problems. Like, for example, not criminalizing theft under $950 encourages theft. Not being hard on the bikers. Gangs going through the city on red light in the middle of the day encourages this. Not doing hot pursuit of the people who stole something, which is the official policy of San Francisco. Basically, like if somebody in front of you takes away your watch from you, the police is not pursuing them because it's too dangerous, right? So if you create all those rules, then obviously you will live in a place which is not safe.
- [37:02]
Mike Carruthers
Do you think this is a question I've had for some time? Do you believe in the example you just gave of San Francisco that passing a law that we don't prosecute for people who steal money or steal things worth less than $950, that people really don't understand that that encourages theft and that maybe they're doing it for some other political reason, to cater to some other group. It's not that they're stupid. They're just. They just don't care.
- [37:36]
Cesare Pietresic
Yes, I guess that not caring is. I consider it part of stupidity. Because if you do not care about something that ultimately bites you back, that is your own fault, isn't it? Look at Russians, for example. I'm giving in my book this example of Navy fleets of Russia and United States until 1960s. Both of those had very big submarine fleets which had a lot of accidents in 1960s Americans decided that, you know what? We are not going to be stupid. We are going to prosecute every single malfunction. We are going to look and analyze every single failure, every procedure. We will not tolerate stupidity. And since that time, Americans haven't lost a submarine, Russians have lost nine. Because you know what? In Russia it's okay if you're a little bit drunk and it's okay if you don't obey this rule and it's okay if it's your choice. And then 150 people die in a sub which goes down.
- [38:38]
Mike Carruthers
Right, Yeah, I saw that. I read that there have been incidents where there have been disasters with Russian submarines. And it was traced back, at least in part to alcohol consumption and human error as a result of that. But is that culture or is that stupidity? Or is it both? If nobody cares, I mean, if it's okay, then it's okay.
- [39:09]
Cesare Pietresic
Is it? Is it? Because ultimately. Well, if. I guess. Look, it's a very philosophical question you asked. A valid question is, you know, if. Okay, so let me ask you this question. If you were a woman in China in early 1900s, if you were lucky to be born as high class woman, you would have almost 100% probability that your feet would be broken into the shape of a lily.
- [39:37]
Mike Carruthers
Wait, wait, what? Your feet would be broken into the shape of a lily.
- [39:43]
Cesare Pietresic
100%. Almost 100% of Chinese Han women in early 1900s in China had their feet broken, broken bones. They couldn't walk right, or barely walk. It was part of the culture. Almost 50% of the whole society had this done. Is it stupid or not? Because they thought it's a chic, it's kind of part of culture.
- [40:06]
Mike Carruthers
But is it fair to call that stupidity? Because you're looking back at that in China around 1900, you're looking back at that through today's lens, right today. That seems really stupid, but I doubt it did to them then. So is it stupidity or is it culture? And we have learned since that we don't do that.
- [40:35]
Cesare Pietresic
Fair point, but it doesn't mean. Yes, in other times we were, we were accepting things we would not accept today. But isn't it our duty to ask those difficult questions to be those guys who are actually questioning the status quo today? That's exactly what I'm talking about. Like if you are born in a society which, for example, doesn't wash its hands, maybe it was right question to ask this question. This was Ignaz Semmelweis, Hungarian doctor in 1840s Vienna, who enforced Washing of hands of doctors from maternity ward. The mortality rate came down from 10% to 1%. He saved so many lives. And you know what happened to him? He was fired and he died in poverty because his own environment and his colleagues and Doctors in particular, Mr. Virchoff, I remember the contemporary Pope of medicine, how it was referred, just was making fun of him. That was ridiculous thing to do because we doctors, we don't wash hands.
- [41:51]
Mike Carruthers
Yeah, okay, well, I mean, I get that, but it seems to me that we don't wash hands until we do. And somebody has to start it. And often because people are resistant to change, there's ridicule, but until somebody changes it, there's no change.
- [42:09]
Cesare Pietresic
True. Doesn't it suggest that we should be those Ignazimmel Weisses, those people who actually ask those difficult questions? I think that if we have more people like that who have the courage to ask inconvenient questions and that's better, then society functions better. Right.
- [42:30]
Mike Carruthers
But I guess what I'm saying or what I'm asking is. So he was very right, clearly very correct to question this and that we should all wash our hands. Doctors should wash their hands. But are we right to today look back and condemn those people who didn't before that and say they were stupid? They were just doing what people did.
- [42:54]
Cesare Pietresic
Correct. But the people who were presented with evidence, such as this guy called Wirkhoff, which is this kind of, at that time, the most famous doctor in Vienna, when he was presented with evidence and he still rejected it, that I think we can blame him. I think there is no excuse for him.
- [43:16]
Mike Carruthers
So give me some examples of through your view of the way people are stupid today, of the dumb things that people do today that we may say, well, wait. Well, wait a minute. That's stupid.
- [43:34]
Cesare Pietresic
Look, I think it's everywhere around us, right? So you go and you buy a coffee. And while buying a coffee, you sign, typically something. And whether you sign Mickey Mouse or you put a smile or cross, which actually means you cannot read, the transaction goes through. So why do we do it? If you go to Target and you want a bottle of red wine and you have you're 65 and you're bald or you're great, they will not sell it to you until you show them the passport or id. Isn't it ridiculous? You go on American Airlines flight, as I often go, and every time I go on American Airlines, I have to select gender. Why do I have to select gender every time? I'm not changing my gender. I don't need to Change my name every time they pick it up from the previous time. Why do I need to change my gender every time? Did I go on an American Airlines flight? And then you go into Spain and they ask you for a wi fi password on a high speed train and this train moves so fast that only the people on the train can catch the signal. And if you're on, on the train, you're actually allowed to have it for free. So why having password in the first place? Right? It's just this stupidity is just everywhere, everywhere around us in small decisions in how government works in government forms. For example, I had to apply for the green card in the US and they were asking me questions such as are you terrorist or essentially have you been killing Jews between this date and that date? What a stupid question. First of all, if you were involved in any genocide, then you should be prosecuted despite the time frame. Right? And who would report self report on yourself anyway?
- [45:32]
Mike Carruthers
Wait, so when you apply for a green card, you were asked if you were a terrorist and if you've been killing Jews?
- [45:40]
Cesare Pietresic
Yes, yes, yes.
- [45:43]
Mike Carruthers
Okay, well, but don't you think, especially when you just explained it the way you did, everybody listening would agree with you that this is stupid. It isn't human stupidity, it's bureaucratic stupidity.
- [46:00]
Cesare Pietresic
Absolutely.
- [46:01]
Mike Carruthers
But that's not. People aren't stupid. It's just some bureaucrat said, well let's ask. I love on the airline they want to know your gender. Like there's different seats for different, like what possible difference could that make? But there must be. I would like to hear the reason for it. Somebody should ask them, why do you ask that?
- [46:22]
Cesare Pietresic
You know, who has time on the government side to review even those things? Right. And can you just like do the last 50 years, how many terrorists have you caught who just self reported themselves on this form? How many? Right. And if you haven't, then why haven't you changed the procedure in the last 50 years? Right. Or, or there's on the same forum there's a question about whether have you ever been a member of Communist party. Right. And you know what, like in France it's actually quite chic to be a member of the Communist Party. Like, you know, it's kind of, you know, like high society thing. Right? So it's just ridiculous. All those questions are ridiculous. And you know what? Also for someone who is coming from outside of the US it's very strange to see the tolerance for bureaucracy in the U.S. right. I always thought that U.S. is incredibly efficient country. And when I got in touch with the bureaucracy. I just, I was shocked. Right. So for example, you know, even the, the vocabulary that is being used like your Miranda versus something rights or your 8802 form or your 401K.
- [47:41]
Mike Carruthers
401K?
- [47:42]
Cesare Pietresic
Yeah, your 401K. Right. Why do you call your pension plan 401K? Is it not important to be like one digit? Why is it three digits? And is it not as important to be A or B? It's K. Isn't it ridiculous? It's like, like. But you know what, those things start small and then they grow. So my point is we need to fight the stupidity every day in the small because if we don't, it becomes this behemoth of bureaucracy and state power which you cannot defeat.
- [48:20]
Mike Carruthers
If I'm going on a trip and I'm filling out my information to American Airlines and they ask me my gender, I'm not going to stop and call them and say why do I have to do this? It's just easier to fill it out.
- [48:35]
Cesare Pietresic
Yep. And there's other airlines which in their Swiss airlines that in their complaint form they don't allow you to use so many signs such as hyphen and star and this and bullet and this that you know, it's almost impossible to submit a claim. So they have very low amount of claims. Right. Because they just make it almost impossible. Right.
- [48:59]
Mike Carruthers
Is that intentional, you think it's intentional.
- [49:04]
Cesare Pietresic
For probably some smart manager, self serving manager of that department just invented this because his bonus probably dependent on amount of claims. Right. It's bad for the whole of the company but it's good for him.
- [49:22]
Mike Carruthers
So is there a reason to think that we're getting more stupid?
- [49:26]
Cesare Pietresic
Yes, sadly we are getting more stupid. So there is research by Mr. Flynn, the famous guy who claimed that our IQ was growing in the many, many decades since particular Second World War. And then he observed in around 1995 that it stopped and then started declining. So since 1995 our IQ in the Western world is declining and particularly observed it on Norwegian records because they have database of IQ tests from 1962 to today and they can see that through IQ test that people are getting more stupid. So basically there's this research from I think IBM that was pointing that frequent messaging and being bombarded by texts alone is decreasing our IQ by 10 points. If you add on top of it reliance of us on AI, we don't need to remember anything, we don't need to know anything, then the future is not looking good.
- [50:33]
Mike Carruthers
Well maybe this is part of the problem that all these incidences that you're talking about, most of them are pretty small and insignificant that collectively add up to a lot of stupidity. But as I said, I'm not gonna stop what I'm doing when I'm filling out my information for my airline ticket and call the airline and say, why do you need to know my gender? What difference does it make to you? And I'm not going to hold up the line at Target and say, wait a minute, clearly, look at me, you can see I'm over 21. Why do you need to see my ID to buy that bottle of wine? I'm not going to do it.
- [51:16]
Cesare Pietresic
Exactly. But then where do you draw the line? You should draw the line somewhere because if you don't, then over long term it turns into a totalitarian, ugly dark state.
- [51:29]
Mike Carruthers
Who's going to draw that line?
- [51:32]
Cesare Pietresic
You and I? Everyone? We need to draw the line. We need to in our everyday. We need to evaluate if something makes sense, if you know what, if you don't like that you're being asked about your gender every day, well, you need to speak out about this. And there's so many examples of the stupid things being done for years and then overturned by conscious effort of small number of people. Think about the lead pollution for example. Lead that was in our pains until 1978 and our petrol until 1990s created huge damage to our brains. There's this phenomenal graph by Rick Nevin which shows the correlation of violence in the US with the levels of lead in the blood of males shifted by 23 years to adjust for when they become problematic. And it's almost perfect correlation. And you know what? We have been doing this for years and why not keep doing this? And there were a few smart people who figured it out and they were trying to fight and they were ridiculed. But you know what? Finally they changed how we operate society and now we have much safer society, among others, because we do not have lead pollution which is wreaking havoc in our brains.
- [52:54]
Mike Carruthers
Well, I appreciate the fact that you're calling this out because I sense there's this resignation, you know, people do stupid things and you know, people do that. That's just the way it is. But maybe it doesn't have to be the way it is and you've certainly made the case. Cesare Piotresik has been my guest. He is co owner of Synerise, a global AI leader in predicting human behavior. And he's author of a book called Homo Idioticus why We Are Stupid and what to do about it. And there's a link to that book in the show notes. Cesare, thank you so much.
- [53:30]
Cesare Pietresic
Thank you, Mike. It was a pleasure.
- [53:35]
Mike Carruthers
Do you ever ruminate? I think most people do sometimes. Rumination is that thing that happens when you get really sad and you can't stop thinking about what's causing it. That breakup or getting laid off or that biting remark from the jerk in the office. If rumination continues for too long, depression can set in. One way to reduce rumination is with distraction, like like taking part in a hobby or enjoying a long chat with a friend. Those things can be very effective to stop the rumination. And researchers at Stanford also found that taking a walk in nature can do the same thing. They divided people into two groups. One group walked along a busy street and the other group walked in a setting with trees and views. The nature walkers showed decreases in rumination that the urban walkers did not show. So next time you get stuck ruminating about something bad, a walk in the park may be just the ticket. Something youg Should Know is produced by Jennifer Brennan, Jeffrey Havison and our executive producer is Ken Williams. I'm Micah Ruthers. Thanks for listening today to something you should know.
- [54:52]
Expedia Advertiser
Martha listens to her favorite band all the time. In the car, gym, even sleeping. So when they finally went on tour, Martha bundled her flight and hotel on Expedia to see them live. She saved so much she got her seat close enough to actually see and hear them. Sort of. You were made to scream from the front row. We were made to quietly save you. More Expedia made to travel. Savings vary and subject to availability. Flight inclusive packages are atoll protected.
- [55:23]
Grim Grimmer Grimmest Narrator
You might think you know Ferris and you might think that they are cute and sweet and boring. But the real Grimm fairy tales were not cute at all. They were very dark and they were often very grim. On Grim Grimmer Grimmest, we tell a grim fairy tale to a bunch of kids. Perfect for car rides or screen free entertainment. Grim Grimmer Grimmest activates kids imaginations and instigates fun conversations because fairy tales speak to all of us at a very deep, primal level and they raise interesting topics and questions that are worth chewing over together as a family. Every episode is rated Grim, Grimmer or Grimmest. So you, your kids, your whole family can choose. What is the right level of grim for you though? If you're listening with grandma, she's just gonna go for Grimmest. Trust me on this one. Tune in to Grim, Grimmer Grimmest and our new season available now.