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Somewhere in the Skies
James Fox: UFO Retrieval Programs, Non-Human Intelligence & The Program (SITS CLASSIC)
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- [00:01]
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- [01:00]
James Fox
Spectre Vision Radio. While our government's official position is not to speculate on this subject, we can choose to let our minds explore other possibilities to use our imaginations for. If we consider that astro scientists agree on one point, that the possibility of life elsewhere is not only quite probable, some feel it is there without a out. Let us suppose then that these objects are real space vehicles, extraterrestrial in origin and not an illusion of the mind.
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Sponsor/Ad Voice
This is somewhere in the skies with ryan sprague.
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James Fox
Really glad you saw the film.
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Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Yes.
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James Fox
And that you had a cameo appearance to the spot. You know, that was cool.
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Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
It was. Let's start there. James. Guys, I'm with James Fox, filmmaker of the phenomenon Moment of Contact. Many films before that, but we're going to be talking today about his brand new film, the Program. But let's start there. James. We had the opportunity to actually hike up in the hills of Calvine, Scotland with a drone.
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James Fox
Oh man.
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Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
That was an adventure and experience.
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James Fox
And we went with former RAF press officer Craig Lindsay. So remember the, remember the car ride with Craig Lindsay, how awesome that was?
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Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
I will never forget that. And I was wondering if any of that would make it into the film. Because you as a filmmaker, you're always filming and I remember you actually had a camera on us when we were talking. But.
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James Fox
And I really, sometimes I look back on things and I think, why didn't I put that in there?
- [02:59]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Well, you can only put so much in. Like that's the curse of being a filmmaker.
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James Fox
You could only put so much stuff in and I had it kind of mapped out in my head. I mean I do everything kind of by the seat of my pants. Anybody who's worked with me in the fields, like Jesus is pretty. This is a pretty unusual style of filmmaking. You're just winging it. But the thing about that is, is that I'm legitimately in the field documenting what's happening while it's happening. I'm not staging things. Right, right. So when I'm learning about things, you're actually seeing me learn about cases and, and, and, and legislation and all that stuff, you know. So I think that's one of the reasons why people seem to like the documentaries because they're, they're not staged, they're very, it's very real.
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Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Right. And you know, we were talking off air. I'm filming my first documentary directly inspired by words you gave me while you were here in Scotland. And I would have to agree, like as I was filming, things were happening. People are, I was interviewing were like, you should talk to this person or oh, you didn't hear about that? You need to go pursue that. And it's amazing. You can go in with an idea about what the film is going to be about and then it'll completely change. Like you said, the more you interview people, things were evolving in the world of UFOs. As you were filming the program, you were able to get a lot of that in. But yeah, let's talk about that.
- [04:28]
James Fox
Well, I, well I finished a rough cut and I wasn't terribly, I'm never really pleased with a rough cut. Right. You gotta, you gotta get somewhere. Right. And so got the rough cut done. I'm looking at it. I'm like, I really need some fresh eyeballs on this and there are some updates or additional people coming forward. So you know, all right, time out. You know, stop editing. Let me walk away from this film for a little bit. Let me bring in some fresh eyeballs. Like Munjia came on, on board. He's a great guy, super technically savvy and, and creative and just a wonderful hard working guy. Man, he's really to put in like 17 hour days. Anyway, and I went and did some additional filming. I went to dc, I went to Pennsylvania. And then there was a guy that had just stepped down from his position, Kirk McConnell, Senate Armed Service Committee, who was contemplating coming forward. And so I, long story short, I ended up flying him in from D.C. to right here where we are now, where I'm sitting, and conducted an interview with him very last minute, last Minute, you know, and then we were also waiting on additional information that was coming in about the Calvine 1990 Calvine UFO case. Right. And we managed, thank you, David Clark, to get Riot. Richard Greaves, who was one of the workers in the. In the kitchen with the alleged photographers. So that was amazing. It was the last thing that we squeezed in at the very last minute that we were not anticipating happening. And it was just, in my opinion, it's one of the best moments in the whole movie.
- [06:00]
Ryan Sprague
Yeah.
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Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
So, I mean, we won't give away what you were able to uncover when it comes to the Calvin case and the primary witnesses and. And what happened with that. We'll let people see that for themselves. But when you said that to me, I was pretty stunned. I'm like, people have been looking for these guys forever. And again, like, we'll leave it up to the viewer to decide. But, yeah, if. If this is what is actually happening and what you've uncovered is real, we are one step closer to finding the witnesses, the original witnesses.
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James Fox
So I love. I have their names now, I don't think I'm going to reveal them publicly, but I have both their names. And I remember the quote that Richard Greaves gives that. It's just like, I think I want to make a T shirt. He goes, I made poached eggs. They made toast. You remember that? I work with them in the kitchen. They made toast.
- [07:04]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Trust me, man, that accent. I hear that accent every day and it never gets easier. But yeah, some awesome stuff on Calvine. But let's rewind a little bit. Now. It's called the Program. So for those watching, listening, let's kind of summarize what that is, why you chose to use that title. What kind of sets this apart from something like the phenomenon, which was like this broad, sweeping historical look at the entire topic of UFOs when it comes to government involvement, personal witnesses. And now Fast forward to 2024. And now we're having UFO hearings, and we're learning some pretty sensational and bold claims by people. So what is the program, in your words?
- [07:53]
James Fox
So I always, like, have to have a working title, and the title usually comes to me in the edit room. And I kept hearing intel folks talk about the program. Oh, I knew about the program, or he was involved with the program, or if I told you what I knew about the program and I was like, the program. I really like that. It's catchy. Of course, there are other things out there called the program as well. That's inevitably. You can't. You can't copyright a title. Right, right. And so. But there's other, other titles out there for out of the Blue. I've Seen Other Things out There for I Know what I Saw, so be It. You know, it's a shared title. But the program came because of the fact that several people within the film kept referring to it as the program. And that's, I guess the involvement with, with the UAP phenomenon or. Yeah, UFOs.
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Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
So the program, you know, we had this most recent UFO hearing where Michael Shellenberger, a freelance journalist, came forward and said that he learned about something called Immaculate Constellation. You know, could this be the program? Could other things be considered the program? We just don't know every, you know, in the public. We, we know so little about what these Cloudenstein programs could actually be. But for you as the filmmaker, as you're interviewing these insiders, you had Christopher Mellon in the movie, Dr. Gary Nolan, who's actually studied possible remnants of these craft that I've said to have come from these programs. I mean, my head was spinning with, with the people that you were interviewing in this thing. So in your opinion, Ken, does what Michael Shellenberger, what he brought forward with Immaculate Constellation, does what you uncovered lend any credence to what he's claiming before the halls of Congress?
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James Fox
So right before, right before coming on your show, just 10 minutes, 10 minutes ago, I was in correspondence on signal with an individual who appears in the film as Navy X. Navy X's has set. Navy X reached out to me right after I went and did that NASA stunt. I basically got into NASA. That's a story in itself. We could say that for a later date, but got into, got into NASA and, and it was all publicized, it was broadcast live. And after that, you know, that stunt, I get a message from a gentleman who's contemplating coming forward but wants to do it anonymously. We met, we went on and did the interview. And he. This individual revealed that there is a database of high resolution 4K imagery of UAP coming down from space, coming in out of the oceans, performing, exhibiting a technology that's just light years advanced from anything that we, that we have now or certainly, you know, didn't have 80 years ago. You know, the objects that don't have any wings or any tail, don't make any noise, no air disturbance, have the ability to hover, accelerate from a standstill, out of sight, the blink of an eye, trans medium, go underwater, come out. Right. So it's atmosphere up in the atmosphere or up in space. And so he described and he gave as much details as he could as to where these can be found for members of Congress, people that are looking for this type of, of data. And so when I heard about Immaculate Constellation, which, you know, it made kind of sense to me because I've heard from numerous intel folks that the stuff does exist. It's one of the things that I address within the movie. So whether that has the name Immaculate Constellation or not, I don't know Michael Shellenberger. I trust his instincts and, and his journalistic integrity. So. And I know that there are members of Congress that know who that individual is. They vetted him. So it could very well be Immaculate Constellation. But again, I don't know. Yeah, but we do know there's a body of much better data, sensory data, overhead collection data, satellite imagery that, things of that nature. That's one of the things that we really wanted to hammer home because you see, you know, people within the scientific community like Neil DeGrasse Tyson, you know, mocking the lack of better data. And it's frustrating for those who are talking to people on the inside that say, yes, it exists, but it's classified and we can't release it.
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Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Right. Well, okay, so you talked about NASA. I remember watching the live stream of their UAP study group press conference, and then, you know, they asked for questions from the audience and then boom, there's James Fox, one of the first up to ask a question. You were able to film it, get it in your documentary as well. And you had like, even the director of NASA at the time were literally interacting with him.
- [12:53]
James Fox
It was great. What was that like? Yeah, it was fantastic. You know, it's funny, I, I got thrown off a little bit because I was trying to get, I was trying to get in. I had, it's. I had somebody put me on the, on the, on the press list, but I wasn't really press. And I had this old press badge that I used when I was filming Pretty slick, that documentary on the BP oil spill back in 2010. And I looked like so much younger. This little baby case, it's totally expired, but I was like, you know, at a distance, if it's just, you know, attached to your hip, you just kind of glance at it, okay, maybe that's going to be cool kind of thing. But there is this guy who looked like he worked with NASA, but he was armed, he had a gun, and, and, and he was quite aggressively like, trying to screen me. And I was trying to get all the gear. It was all very chaotic. It was going to start And I had tripods, camera gear, and trying to get through security and the metal detectors and having to strip my body and take things out of my pockets. But this guy was like. I remember thinking, this is, this guy's like my damn shadow. Like every time I move, he's right there, like asking me questions, well, who are you with? Like, what organization are you with? And I was thinking to myself, this guy just doesn't want me in there for some reason. He just, I don't know. And, and then finally the woman who had the roster, she's like, Mr. Fox is on the list. He's on the list. You know, Brian Bender with formerly with Politico, had made some phone calls and pulled some strings and got me in there. Thank you, Brian Bender. And, and so reluctantly, but I could see that guy when I was on stage, kind of looking at me and, and I'm, you know, I'm going after Bill Nelson, the head of NASA, right? It's like, you know, hey, how can you say what something isn't when you don't know what it is? You know, like, you know, and then what's the plan? What's the plan for telling the public? Is there one? Because you can't be studying the unidentified anomalous phenomena. You can't be studying UFOs, right, in an official capacity and not pre preparing if it leads to. Some of these are, you know, originate from non human intelligence that prepare to how to tell the public who does that? Who does that? Whose job is that? And, and they don't have a plan. They clearly don't have a plan. But it's kind of funny. He's like, you bet your boots. You remember?
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Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
You bet your boots.
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James Fox
I'm seeing some teachers coming out of this movie. I'm thinking poached eggs and toast. You bet your boots. Just having fun with it, you know.
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Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Absolutely, man. You have to, you have to in this topic. Even when you know the content itself and the, the implication is very serious. Like if we're, if we can't laugh at the ridiculous nature sometimes of the phenomena itself and the culture that sprung up around it, people like us, even if you can't laugh at yourself, what the hell's the point?
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James Fox
In my opinion, I could not agree more. I, I actually shared a funny story yesterday on one of the podcasts because I was in my late 20s and I just landed in an interview with Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 6, man to walk on the moon. And I mean, it was a huge moment in my career. You could imagine, right? Here I am sitting down with a guy who walked on the moon at his home in Florida. And it was funny. It was two things, very memorable. One was I said to him, and I'd written countless letters, letters, because I didn't have. I don't think we had email. Maybe we just started having email. But any case, I. For years, I was trying to get interviews with him. My God, I couldn't believe it. I just got denied, denied, denied, denied, denied. And then finally he met with me. And I said to him, while we were shooting some B roll, walking out in his. In the pasture, I said, Dr. Mitchell, you know, what ultimately caused you to decide to. To finally meet with me? I was expecting some profound, you know, answer. He was impressed with this or that. And he goes, well, you know, James, I realized you just weren't going away. But then we go, we sit down, and he's like. He said, well, Mr. James, what would you like me to wear? And before I had a chance to filter what came out of my mouth, I said, how about a pink nightie? And I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe I just said that. It was over, right? And then he just roared with laughter and he fell. And I thought, thank God this guy humor, you know, because I just put my foot in my mouth.
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Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
That's pretty good, man.
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James Fox
Add to the. The credibility factor. He had a great sense of humor about it. I got it into the guy anyway.
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Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Yeah, well, so, you know, yeah, we can. We can laugh about it. I'm sure you've got some great stories of behind the scenes of filming some of these interviews, but you. You have some interviews that are exclusive. People who've never been filmed, been on camera before. Talking about this topic. You mentioned one of them earlier. Someone from the Armed Services committee never
- [17:49]
James Fox
got on camera before.
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Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Yeah, right, right. So tell us a little about some of the people in the movie who we should really be paying attention to.
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James Fox
Well, I would say lenv Logan. He was part of the task force. I think it was. When it was the task force. I don't think it was. I don't think he was part of Arrow. I think it was Jay Stratton and the UAP task force. Post. Post eight tip. But don't quote me on that. But he was definitely part of the task force with Jay Stratton. He'd never come forward before as far as. Yeah, no, he's definitely never been on camera before. Kirk McConnell. And he, you know, look, he says, I'll do the best I can and say as much as I can without violating my security oath. I, you know, I have to be very careful. And in fact I had to take the segments they appear in and they had to be approved. Right. So he had to, he had to have it approved as did you know, Jason Sands and, and you know, Kirk McConnell, he was very careful on what he said on camera. He said as much as he could say without fear of retribution. Kirk McConnell sent an armed service committee he started in 2017, sticking his teeth into it. He had high level clearances and you know, and he talks about in the film, that's why I can say it. He has sat down along with members of, of the Senate with firsthanders. I think it was like, I don't know, 10, maybe 8, 10 to 12 something. I have an exact number but, but somewhere around that firsthanders. And he says so in the film, I think these people have high level clearances, credible, you know, act either active, both active and retired. That's kind of a big deal. I mean he's putting his neck huge deal. Well, yeah, I know a lot of people. I, I knew that there are going to be certain people within the community they're going to criticize me for, for including Jason Sands. But I did a lot of stuff, a lot of digging behind the scenes. I did as best I could, you know, to verify his credentials to, to, to prove that he is who he says he was and he was where he says he was. Right. I even got his ex wife and I actually, I kept saying, look, I need photographs of you in the military. And I kept not getting them. And I finally said, what's going on here? And he goes, oh my, my ex, kind of my ex. And she's got them in, they're in boxes up in the attic and she's gonna have to go dig it. Ah. I said, well, tell her $200 per scanned image. And I had him six hours later. So money talks, baby, you know, And I had to have them. You got to have them.
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Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Yeah.
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James Fox
I met with people on the inside current that vouched for him and said, look, you know, probably suffering from ptsd, but he is who he says he is. He was where he says he was. We vetted him thoroughly and he's even mentioned names of classified programs that, that he knew. So don't throw. I just, you know, so I stuck by his side. And he's willing to take a lie detector test publicly and he's willing to testify under oath, provided he's given immunity to verify, to give the the details necessary to verify his claims. So there we have it.
- [20:58]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
So, okay, one of the biggest, I think issues or things we run up against when it comes to the program per se is you have people testifying before Congress elizondo the claims by a whistleblower to Schellenberger the individuals you've spoken to. And it seems like James, every time it comes back to, well, who are these people? Where's the location where the craft are being hidden or stored or worked on? What are the locations of these programs and whatnot? It's always, I could talk about that in a skiff or a classified setting. So that seems to be like the big roadblock right now is like this idea of this mythological skiff that everyone talks about. And people like George Knapp have claimed, I've been in a skiff, like I've literally been in a skiff with these people. Why can't members of Congress get in there and do it to further their investigation into the claims of being brought to them? So like, what do you make of this whole, like, I don't want to say it's like a way out of it, like saying, oh, I could talk about that in a skiff. And then they can never actually get in the skiff to talk to these people.
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James Fox
I don't think, I don't think the skip's gonna solve it. Because look, let's say you get Thomas Manheim, the current ICIG Intelligence Community Inspector General into a skiff and he reveals the street addresses. Now. Now what? It's still classified. So what are the members going to Congress? Maybe possibly leak it out. Then you don't have provenance. I think what needs to happen is that the first handers need to be provided whistleblower protections, real protections where they feel secure and safe and immunity to disclose in a public setting, just like we did with David Grush. But allowing them to relinquish all the information, street addresses, who, who has it, which agencies, which, you know, subcontractors. And that nature, in my opinion, that's what needs to happen. Okay, so executive branch. I would, because I've asked that and, and I've also asked like, where are they hiding this so called unacknowledged special access program. Right. And the, the best I can get. Well, well if it does exist, it's probably under the doe, Department of Energy, because that's the least amount of oversight. Yeah. So that's where it would be. Right. But look, it's frustrating. People feel like things aren't happening fast enough. But I have to remind people, just look at where we've come since 2017, right? We got, we've had a couple people, intel folks testify under oath publicly that there's a crash retrieval program. Let's not forget that. I don't think you can overstate the significance of that testified under oath. Okay. That it exists. So there are consequences for lying to Congress, particularly under oath. I mean, potential prison time. So we should take that allegation very seriously and we should keep the pressure on, keep supporting our elected officials, both parties, and, and while, while they keep digging and you know, try to get, you know, love the Trump administration or, or don't like the Trump administration, I think that they're more likely to possibly wave the magic wand and provide some level of immunity to these firsthand witnesses, which what in my opinion, needs to happen.
- [24:19]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
So this really lay, like you said, in the executive branch and policy making, you know, you, you stress in the film this, what do you call it, the, the disclosure act that's been trying to get passed and whatnot through the efforts of people like Schumer and whatnot
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James Fox
was right on the Senate pass in the Senate.
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Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Right. So basically what you're saying is like it has to come to a law that's going to protect these people in order for them to come forward.
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James Fox
Yeah. So I, I, sorry I got sidetracked earlier on. I was going to mention there's an individual who appears in the film under, it's Navy X and this individual is putting together a statement. We were going over it just 15, 20 minutes ago anonymously on. It's a very compelling statement and it's going to be released on my X account on the day of the film release on the 16th of December, basically explaining, you know, why this individual is doing what he's doing, why he's fearful for his safety, where some of this material is what he is, what this individual has seen and basically why he's, why he's coming forward anonymously. It's very compelling. It's gonna, it's, it's several paragraphs and it's, it really explains a lot of things within the, the fear factor. The, the is real. The consequences for, for violating their security oaths, I guess, is real. They're. And yeah, so it explains a lot of it and it's frustrating, it's frustrating for, for filmmakers myself, it's frustrating for the general public when you hear these, all these people telling me like I'd go to jail if I told you what I know. Excuse me. It's like, hey, why can't we have a blanket protection somehow? And really, because if what these people are saying is true, this is the biggest story of the millennium, I mean, ever, really. Right. So it merits further investigation and it merits the efforts of our elected officials to try to provide immunity for these whistleblowers.
- [26:27]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Yeah, yeah, we'll see what happens. It's. It's an interesting time, especially when you have, like, these people testifying before the House and then, you know, Arrow testifying before the Senate, and they're kind of going up against one another in terms of who knows what, what can be proven, what can't be proven. So what do you think of Arrow and what deliberate's doing?
- [26:52]
James Fox
Very interesting. I'm glad you brought that up, because trying to think about how much background I give you on this, but basically, I had an opportunity right after I. I attended the first congressional hearings. I got to attend after 30 years waiting for that. And a lot of people were like, oh, it was a big nothing burger. Well, you know, it was pretty exciting. Nonetheless, I was pretty happy to be there, pretty happy to see people testify under oath, pretty happy to see the Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet and, you know, Lou testify under oath about the existence of a crash retrieval program. Pretty big deal. But the next day, Kirk McConnell had arranged a meeting with me in a skiff with the new head of Arrow. And there's another gentleman, Air Force Office of Special Investigations. Kevin Ryan, I think his last name was. I'd have looked into that. But in any case, John Kosklowski is the new head of Arrow. And I got in there and I was thinking to myself, like, this is crazy. I'm. I'm in a skiff with the head of Arrow.
- [27:50]
Ryan Sprague
Hello, this is Ryan Sprague, the host of Somewhere in the Skies. If you're enjoying our podcast, our live streams, and our videos and you'd like to support the show, there are several ways to help while unlocking exclusive perks. Join our Patreon community for early access to episodes, priority guest questions, exclusive articles, bonus content, and access to a growing community of fellow UFO enthusiasts. You can also subscribe to Somewhere in the Sky's premium on Apple Pocket podcasts for ad, free listening, early access, and exclusive premium content. If you're watching on YouTube, consider becoming a channel member to unlock bonus content, members only posts, badges, and so much more. No matter how you choose to support Somewhere in the Skies, your contribution directly helps fund our research, our production, travel interviews, and the continued growth of everything we do here. So to learn more. Check the links in the show notes or the video description and real talk here. Guys. Thank you for listening and supporting us for almost 10 years. And thank you for supporting independent content and I hope you'll continue to join me Somewhere in the Skies
- [29:09]
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- [31:03]
James Fox
So I said, hey you guys guys got to throw us a bone here. You know we're not going away. And sure, the vast majority of these sightings can be explained away in conventional terms, but you know, there's a residual 10, 15, 20% that clearly defies a conventional explanation. And we're probably dealing with non human intelligence. And nobody scoffed or denied or anything like that. He looked at me and he goes, james, I can't part my own Hair without approval from the DoD, and you can quote me on that. And I thought to myself, I thought about that for a while. So basically, what he's saying is Congress puts him in charge of digging through the various intelligence agencies, finding out what they know, and yet the DoD, which is part of the executive branch, tells him what he can and cannot say. So that doesn't seem like a very. Really? Why. Why is that? Why is that structured that way? But that's what he said.
- [32:04]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
It's interesting because you had. At the Senate hearing, you had Susan Goff, the Pentagon spokesperson, next to the head of Arrow, like, eyeing him the whole time. The freaking lasers in the back of his head. And then at the House hearing, you had members of Congress, like Jared Moskovitz, saying, we were told today not to ask you specific questions. So it's like, who's pulling the strings above everyone here?
- [32:31]
James Fox
And I gotta say something really cool that. That I was just blown away by. And this was told to me by the Air Force office of Special Investigations, Kevin. And he goes. He goes, you can't work for Arrow. It's. It's a prerequisite to watch the phenomenon before you come work for Arrow. And then he goes, God, that case at the end in Africa. I said, you mean the landing case?
- [32:57]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Wow. What?
- [33:01]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
It's like the training manual for Arrow nowadays. Good job.
- [33:05]
James Fox
This is amazing. This is amazing. Yeah, it was pretty cool.
- [33:09]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
So. So just to clarify, were. Did you go into the skiff?
- [33:14]
James Fox
I did. I did. I went into the skiff. Yes. Just like in the movies. Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah. And I had to, like, do a 48 hour background check. Then I had to go through all this, like, security metal detector. Then I went through this, like, glass. Like this glass tube thing, almost like in a Star Trek movie, where the door opens on one side and you walk in and it opens on the other side, you walk through. And then I had to get rid of all. Anything electronic, leave it out in a. On top of a. Of a little locker. Can't open anything. Buttons and everything on it. Oh, yeah, no cameras, no cell phone. Nothing, man. And boom, I'm inside. And their whole operations for Arrow are inside a skiff. And really, I was. So I walked down this hallway and. Sorry, my camera's moving. I hate that I need to turn that feature off. But I'm walking down this hallway. I'm walking down this hallway with the guy from Air Force office, Special Investigations afosi. And. And he stops, you know, wait here. And he's doing something. And to my left, there's a door open, and there's a. A table with, like, maybe five people sitting at the table talking. And I just couldn't help myself. I just kind of turned over and I started tuning in to what they're saying. They're all sitting down at this.
- [34:32]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
This.
- [34:32]
James Fox
This table, and. And then somebody gets up and they walk over and close the door. Oh, man. I was sitting there waiting there.
- [34:46]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
I look over,
- [34:49]
James Fox
you know, dude, it.
- [34:50]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
What's.
- [34:50]
James Fox
What's being said. And then, yeah, it was pretty funny. And then I went into another room with the two of them for. For like, 15, 20 minutes, maybe 45 minutes with the head of arrow. Hung out for 15, 20 minutes. And he had to go. And then I hung out with the other guy at the Air Force office. Special Investigations.
- [35:08]
Ryan Sprague
Interesting.
- [35:08]
James Fox
I was asking him about Men in Black. Who are they? What agency are they from? Are you looking into it? You need to look into this case, that case. Like, here's where I think you could find something. Yeah, it was pretty cool.
- [35:21]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Please tell me you asked about Dodie.
- [35:23]
James Fox
I. I did not. Sorry.
- [35:27]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
It's all right. Next time. Next time.
- [35:29]
James Fox
Yeah, but I do have. I do have their. I have one of their numbers. I text with them. Wow. You know, when I told him, I said, you gotta throw us a bone. You can't. We're not going anywhere. Yeah. This is not going to go away.
- [35:40]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
It's not going away. Yeah, absolutely, man. Well, in c. That's the frustration right there. You were in a skiff. Why can't these members of Congress get in there to interview these people? It just. This conundrum just. It baffles me. I. I don't get it.
- [35:57]
James Fox
Look, they didn't reveal anything classified, and the fact that I met in a skip. I mean, I don't. I don't know. Could they have shared classified? I don't know if they could have or not. I mean, I did a lot of the talking and, you know, but when I started talking about NHI and I. I clearly was like, you know, this is where this is going. Right? You know that, right? You know, and that's what he just said. Look, I can't part my hair without the DoD approving it.
- [36:21]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Yeah, see, and that makes me think they wanted to. They wanted information from you, not the other way around. They're gathering intel from the people who are, you know, investigating these things, making films about them.
- [36:35]
James Fox
I told them stuff. And there's one particular bit of evidence that I've been digging up. I. Look, people are get frustrated because they're. You know, the Virginia case we talked about photographic evidence. You know, I've been going after that for a couple of years now. I don't give up. Like, I've been going after quietly. And again, I have to say thank you to David Clark on the Calvine UFO photograph. I mean, it's been like quietly in and out for 20 years. I've been kind of making inquiries about that, you know, pestering Nick Pope about it. Great interview he gave, by the way, on that case, isn't it?
- [37:09]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
It was interesting.
- [37:10]
James Fox
Yeah.
- [37:11]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
How he sort of framed the whole experience in real time.
- [37:15]
James Fox
I waited 20. 20 years for that moment, you know, and going to the spot. So I. I've also been trying to track down footage of a launch at Vandenberg Air Force Base. I've been on it for about 10 years now, maybe, maybe 12 years. And I know the individual that has it. And so I've been. I've been working that angle for a while and. And talking with. It was basically a launch, I think it was In September of 1964, Vandenberg Air Force Base. Quite similar to what Robert Jacobs talks about with that object that circles the tip of the Atlas rocket and shoots beams, the lights at it. This. This particular footage that I'm going after has, I think, two or three objects circling the tip of an Atlas rocket traveling at roughly 8,9000 miles an hour, taken in 1964. But it doesn't shoot beams. According to the people that have seen it, it does. And the individual who has it, it doesn't shoot beams of light, but it does circle. And it's two different camera angles, one close and one further away, showing exactly the same thing. So they've totally eliminate any possibility of lens flare or things of that nature. But it's pretty. Pretty impressive stuff. And they kind of want my help to go after it. And I did say to them, if I help you get it, it can't disappear. Like, I'm going to get a copy and you'll get a copy, so. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. So. So we're working together in tandem on it.
- [38:32]
Ryan Sprague
Interesting.
- [38:33]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Well, okay, yeah, we'll see. But if.
- [38:36]
James Fox
And they. And they lie about it, I'm going to call them out. Yeah, And I told him that, like, you're not going to make this go down a black hole, because I can give you a thousand cases right here, right now about how this stuff has an uncanny ability to vanish.
- [38:49]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Well, on that, I do want to. I know we got to wrap things up shortly.
- [38:55]
James Fox
10 minutes and I gotta walk my dog and then I've got to go to my dad. Bod class. Middle aged dudes and older get together and work out and make fun of each other and pump iron and it's really fun. It's good for my mental state of health. So.
- [39:08]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
So yeah, I don't.
- [39:10]
James Fox
Top priority.
- [39:11]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
You're. You're gonna need it for the next few weeks, my friend. That's for sure. Black Hole video. I have to ask you this. When we were in the car, you played a voicemail for me. I won't name the individual, but people will know who it is about a certain video. Will we ever see that video from. I'm okay. Everyone knows at this point, is Logan Paul ever gonna drop this best video ever on us? What's going on?
- [39:41]
James Fox
I had another guy come to my house. He probably wouldn't want me to mention his name. And I can't remember his name right off the bat. Right here. Came to this table right here about a year ago, something like that, maybe less. And he has the video. And so he showed it to me. I said, well, can I take a video of. You know. And it was very degraded and it was edited. It seemed like somebody had edited. It wasn't a. It was, it was kind of chopped up and degraded. I mean it definitely showed the disc, you know, doing the wobble that I remember crystal clear and the, the paranoia from them inside the car and the light over the top of the car, all that. But it was kind of edited and chopped up and it was really degraded. And I was like, ah, this is. And he said that he was going to. He had contacted Chuck Clark and he was going to have it enhanced with a. With the latest software to get rid of all the dropout for preservation purposes. And I said, okay, well do you think it'll get released at that point? He goes, well, first my first step is to get it enhanced and then we'll see what happens. So I haven't forgotten about it. I'm still going to try. I won't ever give up on it. It's at one point or another, I'm sure. Chuck Clark. Oh, and one more thing I'll say about it is that I went. I was on a tour at a conference actually with Fade to Black.
- [41:05]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Oh, Jimmy Church.
- [41:06]
James Fox
Yeah, Jimmy Church. And we were on a conference. We took buses from Las Vegas out to Area 51 as part of the tour. And we got to Little Ailey Inn and we hung out there for three hours. We had food and drinks and Whatever. And I met the again and I've known her for decades. The daughter of the woman who owned it. I think it was Pat. Joe and Pat used to own it. Pat's still around. Joe passed. And Pat's daughter. I talked to her about that footage because Chuck Clark lived like a couple hundred yards away from the little alien in, in a double wide for, for probably 20 years. Of course he had that footage and everybody knew about it. Everyone's seen it. And so I said to her, like what, why is there so much secrecy around who shot it? Like what, what's the big deal? What, why don't they come forward? And we talked and, and she was very kind of, she remembered me and knew who I was, but she was kind of standing off and then she looked at me and she goes, do you really think we're that stupid that we're not going to make a digital copy of it? She go, there's reasons why that individual didn't come forward. No, she, I, yeah, there, there was reasons why. And you wouldn't tell me and I don't know. I don't know. I don't, I don't know. But I, I won't, I won't. I haven't given up on, I haven't given up on going after any footage. Sometimes this stuff takes a while. I don't know.
- [42:22]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Yeah. Welcome to ufology.
- [42:25]
James Fox
Welcome to ufology. Yeah. I mean, look how long it took for the Calvine UFO photograph.
- [42:28]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Oh my gosh, man, 34 years.
- [42:30]
James Fox
33 years.
- [42:31]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
And completely by happenstance, like it was in his desk the whole time. Oh, God, it's, it's crazy how these things work. Oh, well, let's talk briefly. You had Gary McKinnon in the movie. I know you were, I think you were with him the day before you met up with me, right?
- [42:45]
James Fox
Yeah, probably. Yeah, probably wasn't that great.
- [42:48]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
That was so cool to hear from him again so many years later. And, and the doctor talked about he
- [42:54]
James Fox
was going to take his own life before he would go rot in a foreign prison.
- [42:58]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Yeah.
- [42:59]
James Fox
That's intense.
- [43:00]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Yeah. So what do you make of his claims in the broader picture of the program?
- [43:05]
James Fox
Well, it certainly, it certainly aligns with the research that we've done and the intel officers telling us about so called Immaculate Constellation. Right. There's some sort of program that has all this high resolution 4K data, right? Satellite collection data, all the sensory data. It's got to be somewhere. We, we've talked to numerous people that have seen it, you know, most of whom are Willing to take a lie detector test that it does exist. So why not Gary McKinnon? His claims, he's never changed his claims he saw, you saw one image that was very impressive of an object that didn't, that looked like it was not of this earth. And then also the, the officers, the non terrestrial officers. What the hell is that?
- [43:49]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
That's weird.
- [43:50]
Ryan Sprague
Yeah.
- [43:50]
James Fox
Who are those guys? Are those like astronauts? Right. Because non terrestrial officers or are they something else? Yeah. You know, I remember thinking, you know, look, one of the things,
- [44:05]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
the place
- [44:05]
James Fox
where I'm at now after 30 years is I've, I've finally gotten to a place where I go, James, I know this sounds crazy. You hear about different aspects of the phenomenon that you just had this knee jerk reaction and go, that's impossible. There's no way in hell that happened. I've gone beyond that now. I have to say, James, take a moment, suspend judgment and at least consider this maybe a possibility, maybe this did happen and dig a little further. Don't just reject it. So that's where I'm at right now. I started thinking about Jason Sand's encounter in the desert.
- [44:42]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
You know, that's pretty, if true, like that's a pretty nutso.
- [44:50]
James Fox
He's willing to take a public lie detector test. He has the names of the other officers that were on duty that day, have a date. We have a location, we have names. Let's dig, let's dig into it. Yep. Prove or disprove that. Let's let, let, let, let's let the world know about it. And, and, and let's dig deeper on that one because if that really happened. Wow,
- [45:14]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
it's, yeah, it's, it's one for the ages for sure. Yeah. I was like, incredible. It's, it was incredible. I'm gonna look at. James, I've got just a couple questions from Twitter here really quick. I'll just pick one. I'll pick the greatest hit here.
- [45:31]
James Fox
My favorite color is dark blue. Next person,
- [45:39]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Heinous X says, what's up? James Fox. Let me see here. Oh, here's a good one. Brian Jacoby asked, what is the biggest frustration about going through the conventional route, AKA Congress, politicians. What kind of what, what can us normal people do to push the topic forward?
- [45:58]
James Fox
What as normal people can do, myself included on that, is to support our elected officials bipartisan effort to push for more transparency. They need to hear from us that we want answers and we have, they have our support. That's, I can't overstate how significant that is.
- [46:16]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Okay, cool. Let me see here. We talked about. Oh, you posted on X today you were looking for the J. Edgar Hoover. What's going on with that?
- [46:30]
James Fox
A friend of mine was asking me about it and I was like, oh, yeah, I know where that is. And did it. Did a little quick search. It's like, why can't I find this? Yeah. And then I remember thinking, you know what? That's a pretty significant document. We're talking about crash retrieval stuff. The former head of the FBI in his own handwriting. Right. Because I featured this document and out of the blue, decades ago says, okay, perfect, thank you, this is excellent. So look, if we could just figure out what that it's. Some people say la. Or is it sw? What is that? Because if that's sw, it could be the Southwest, which would mean. Could be Roswell, because he talks about it and look at the date. It's July 15th. That's just a week or so after the army would have grabbed it. Right, right, right. Because that's when Roswell happened. So this, in my opinion, because it's not typed, it's in his own handwriting. It's an official document from J. Edgar Hoover. And I know it's old, obviously, and I know it's been reported on, obviously. But let's do some analysis and find out what that says. Because if it's. If it's la, then I'm just stumped. But if it's sw, it could be southwest, which would mean Roswell, which is pretty significant. Like, let's not just throw this out just because it's old and it has been reported on the past. As far as I'm concerned, it's never really. We haven't gotten to the bottom of it.
- [47:56]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, yeah.
- [47:59]
James Fox
Grabbed it and wouldn't let us have it for cursory examination. We must insist upon full access to disc seven recovered. This is a week or so after Roswell, 1947.
- [48:11]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Yeah.
- [48:12]
James Fox
Like, come on, man, if this isn't a smoking and gun document. If we can just figure out, somebody needs to do some analysis work on that and find out what. Because he says, for instance, in the something case, the army grabbed, it wouldn't let us have a cursory examination one week or so after Roswell, 10 days after Roswell, whatever that is. Like, wow. Right?
- [48:32]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Yeah. It's crazy. And it could be no more appropriate than for your new film coming out
- [48:39]
James Fox
super relevant right now. I mean, it's a relevant document. I know it's old and I know it's been reported on, but nobody's really gotten the bottom of it. What. What case is he talking about? Yeah, if that's the Southwest, then that's Bingo, right?
- [48:50]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Yep, exactly.
- [48:51]
James Fox
So anyway, yeah, I'd like to see. I just bring it to people's attention. I think it's relevant. Very relevant. It would be crash retrieval confirmation in the former head of the FBI's own handwriting. Right? It's better than typing. It's. It's in his handwriting. It could be an analyzed. We should figure out what that is.
- [49:11]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
I want to know your thoughts. What's going on in New Jersey, man? Like, between the UK and New Jersey? Is this War of the Worlds? What's. What's happening?
- [49:21]
James Fox
I. I wish I had definitive answers, and I don't. I have a friend of mine who lives in New Jersey called me yesterday, Alessi. And he goes, he actually was with me in Virginia, Brazil, a couple of years ago, filming for a moment of contact. And he calls me up, and I totally trust this guy. And he goes, hey, I live here. They're flying over my house. I said, well, tell me, what are you seeing? He goes, they're the size of an suv, and they make noise, but they're hovering, and they're this and they're that. I go, they're making noise? Yeah, they're making noise, but their loiter time is hours as opposed to minutes. Now, I fly pretty advanced drones. I mean, relatively within the. You know. I mean, I fly, you know, for my movies, right? But I'm lucky to get 20 minutes flight time, maybe 25 of them. I'm really lucky under the right conditions. These things are up for hours. And in some instances, I've heard relatively credible reports of F16s over more sensitive airspace, like. Like military bases, you know, going after them and then just outmaneuvering in F16. Is that really true? Because that's true. You're talking about potentially conventional propulsion, but highly advanced. So I don't know. I don't know what to think. It's really crazy. And the silence from. From. From the executive branch is deafening, really. I mean, they're saying, don't worry, you have nothing to fear, really? But you don't know what they are. That doesn't make sense either.
- [50:43]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
The Pentagon.
- [50:44]
James Fox
Literally nothing to see here, folks.
- [50:46]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Nothing. They said they. That it's not US Tech and that it's. What did they say? Not US Tech and it's not Iran. Because one of the New Jersey reps said that he heard that it was Iranian technology and they were able to deny that. But then they also said this is not US tech either. They're giving. What does that mean?
- [51:10]
James Fox
They're giving horrible explanations. They're making matters worse.
- [51:14]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Yes.
- [51:14]
James Fox
To say that because why don't you just follow one of them back wherever it goes? Follow it. Duh. Like it makes me think they know.
- [51:24]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
It really makes me think they know.
- [51:26]
James Fox
And they should say, we know what they are. Don't worry about it. It's okay. But they don't say that either.
- [51:31]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Yep.
- [51:31]
James Fox
So I'm highly dubious. You know. Come on.
- [51:34]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
I know, man.
- [51:36]
James Fox
Anyways, yeah, sorry, go ahead.
- [51:38]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
No, I don't want to end with a drone question. So. So I guess my big question for you is what do. What happens next? The film is coming out December 16th.
- [51:51]
James Fox
Yeah.
- [51:52]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
What is the biggest thing people should pay attention to with the film and where is this all heading as we go into 2025 with the UFO issue?
- [52:03]
James Fox
Well, I, I think it's really important to keep the pressure on. I think we really are living in unprecedented times right now. It's happening. There's a culmination. Right. And it's got the attention of Congress, starting to get the attention of the American public. In fact, globally, I remember, the implications are for all of humanity, not just the United States. Right. This is, this is far reaching global implications. And, and it potentially could be the biggest story in modern history. And I think we need to keep the pressure on, keep supporting the congressional effort to hold the intel community's feet to the fire, keep demanding answers and, and, and, and don't let up. Now's not the time to let up. I do, I want to say that this is the most independent production I've ever done, start to finish. We have no distributor. We're doing this entirely on our own. I had to borrow a quarter of a million dollars just to pay to get it released. It's a long story, but there's a lot of unforced. There's just a lot of expenditures, PR companies, you know, at running ad space. I'm doing basically exactly what my distributor used to do. Like when I put out the phenomenon, everything's the same. The people that acquire the film aren't going to see anything different. It's just that we're all paid out of pocket. We have no distribution company. We have an aggregator who posted up on the film hub, but that's it. We do everything. So it's the first time in the history of all my films that has been that independent. The film's coming out on Amazon, itunes, Apple, Vimeo. It's going to be expensive. For the first two weeks it's purchase only. Yeah, I know. So it's going to be $20. And if you can't afford the $20, I totally get it. Sit tight. And we will make it available for rent at the end of this month. We're trying to recoup. We're about a million dollars in debt right now. People wanted me to set up a GoFundMe. I refuse to do that unless I'm in a foreign prison somewhere and I do not have the ability to get myself out. Then you can set up a GoFundMe. I'm not accepting free money. But if you guys want to fund me and you want to help buy it in the next two weeks and if not, wait until it's available to rent. And I do appreciate all of your support. It really, I really mean that.
- [54:11]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Yeah. Yeah. If you want to see me, my sweaty ass hiking up a hill with James Fox, who's in way better shape than I'll ever be. Yeah, you could see me for like half a second there, but hey, I'm not already. So, yes, yes, that was.
- [54:28]
James Fox
Yes, you're in there a number of times.
- [54:30]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
That was me and one of your camera guys. So I, I can say that I was in a reenactor of one of the Calvine UFO witnesses.
- [54:38]
James Fox
You know what? You're gonna get an Academy Award for that. On that was. Your acting was phenomenal. The way you stood there under the tree and knelt down. That's Academy award right there.
- [54:48]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
I'd like to thank my mom, all of my supporters throughout for this award. No, I'm kidding, dude. It was such a pleasure doing that with you. Like, it's a memory I will hold dear forever.
- [54:59]
James Fox
Keep me posted on your documentary on the Shag harbor and let me know how I can help out.
- [55:03]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Absolutely, I will. And thank you. I know you got to get going, James, but I can't wait for it to come out. Like you said, we'll have links to everything in the show, notes for where you guys can find the film, and good luck with the release, my friend.
- [55:17]
James Fox
Thanks so much.
- [55:18]
Interviewer (Possibly Ryan Sprague)
Thanks for joining us.
- [55:19]
James Fox
Bye, everybody. Sam.
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