← Jung On Purpose Podcast by CreativeMind
Loading summary
Transcript62 lines
- [00:01]
Deborah Burndt Maldonado
Welcome to Creative Mind Soul Sessions with Deborah Burndt Maldonado and Dr. Rob Maldonado, founders of CreativeMind. Explore personal growth with us through Jungian psychology, Eastern spirituality, and social neuroscience in a deep but practical way.
- [00:18]
Deborah Maldonado
Let's begin.
- [00:23]
Deborah Burndt Maldonado
Hello, everyone.
- [00:24]
Deborah Maldonado
Welcome back to Soul Sessions, the young and coaching podcast. I'm Deborah Maldonada.
- [00:28]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
I'm Dr. Robin.
- [00:30]
Deborah Maldonado
And we are ready to finish our series on romantic love.
- [00:34]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah, it's been quite a ride.
- [00:36]
Deborah Maldonado
Yes. And we're going to go deeper into the anima animus that we talked about in our last episode. If you missed it, don't forget to go back and check it out. And also, speaking of previous episodes, if you'd like to get every episode of Soul Sessions, please be sure to subscribe to our podcast. And if you're listening to us on YouTube, watching our video, just click the subscribe button in the corner and you'll be on our list to get notified of every episode that comes out every week. So today we're talking about marriage and, well, romantic partnership, if you don't want to be married as a spiritual partnership.
- [01:15]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah. We started with projection, which is really key to understanding relationships and to creating great relationships, because if you don't understand projection, you're going to be projecting onto your partner, and that's not going to work.
- [01:31]
Deborah Maldonado
Well, also, too, like, when we think about projection, it's a. It's kind of a burden on the person that you're projecting onto. I know. And all of us can remember dating when someone's so infatuated with you, and you're just like, what? Like you feel this responsibility for this hold, like, not breaking their heart in a way. And. And so it's uncomfortable to. To be the recipient or the container of all that projection.
- [01:55]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Absolutely. And then we talked about the anima and the animus as love and power and how every single one of us, regardless of our gender identification, every single one of us has to integrate and balance these two forces within ourselves and in order to be good partners in relationship.
- [02:20]
Deborah Maldonado
And so, quote from Young collected Works. Marriage is not a mere social contract, but a psychological and even spiritual union.
- [02:32]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
That's right. At its best, it's. It's a spiritual union, really, because from ancient times, right, marriage has always been the symbol of the union of these two universal powers that join in order to create new light.
- [02:53]
Deborah Maldonado
And you're talking about masculine, feminine powers. Yeah, the energies that basically make up the world, the universe, the.
- [03:01]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
But yeah, at the symbolic level and at the, you know, psychological and spiritual level, like, he's saying the creation of new life doesn't necessarily mean just a baby or creating another human being. It means regenerating yourself, your psyche so that you're able to create in the world.
- [03:22]
Deborah Maldonado
So to be actively creating, rebirthing process every time. And you need both forces and energies to do that.
- [03:30]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
That's right.
- [03:31]
Deborah Maldonado
And the reason we don't is because we have the ego. We talked about that a couple episodes ago. Where the ego is. Keeps us in our patterns and it projects and it wants to keep things the same. So it's sort of a stagnation that happens. This happens in relationships too. It just kind of like it's good enough and I'm surviving and you know, this person and I, you know, split the rent and it's not too bad and they're nice every once in a while. But it's not really growing. The relationship isn't really growing. You get into routine, you get into kind of the ordinary, you know, relationship loses its spark. And, and what we're talking about is that kind of rebirth that a relationship can have and yourself in the world. Constant evolution of growing and expansion of who you are and what life is for you.
- [04:19]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
That's right. And then we also talk about this catalyst or the relationship being a catalyst for individuation. Like you said, once you entered the relationship, you found that it was your. Your personal development became accelerated because it's really an opportunity for growth.
- [04:41]
Deborah Maldonado
So many. When we did the Love Program, some people would say, I think I should need to work on myself more before I start dating. And I said, well, if you start dating, it's a perfect way to see what's going on in your unconscious and you'll get to knowing yourself more and growing faster than if you're just trying to do it ice in isolation without that projection.
- [05:02]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah, there, there is something to be said of doing your, your personal development work before you get into a relationship.
- [05:10]
Deborah Maldonado
I know you and I differ with this. Have a little like disagreement around that.
- [05:14]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
But either way I. You have to do it. Well, obviously you don't have to do it, but you, you want to do it.
- [05:22]
Deborah Maldonado
But don't you think though that, I mean, there's. Yes, definitely, you should be more self aware, but you don't have to be perfect. This idea that you have to clear your whole, your past and you have to get rid of all the negative. It helps, you know that. You know it helps. Well, I guess you have to do a certain amount of work on your own before, but it's not, I think People hide behind personal growth sometimes and they don't put themselves out there because they're like, oh, I'm not done yet, I'm not ready yet. We see this happen with our coaches too, right. That people that want to get into coaching, oh, I still need to work on myself before I can coach someone. It's like, you've done enough work. It's like you're always going to be working, you're always going to be growing.
- [06:03]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Maybe it's more like the idea of jumping off the cliff and building the plane on the way. Yeah.
- [06:10]
Deborah Maldonado
Yeah, it's definitely easier. And then you'll also find a better match if you're more self aware. But, but you don't have to put everything on hold. It's like use everything for your growth.
- [06:23]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yes. Also marriage or these relationships, like bonding. Right. They're really tied to our purpose. And it's not that we have to be married or in a relationship to define our purpose, but they're highly connected because when we, when we find our purpose, we find ourselves. And we notice that when we were working with coaching, especially coaching relationships, it was very much that the person that knows who they are and what their purpose is in life knows who they belong with. Like if you don't, if you're still kind of wondering who am I and what is my purpose in life? You don't know who you belong with. You, you don't know who you are. Therefore the, the universe doesn't know who to match you up with because you yourself don't know who you are.
- [07:27]
Deborah Maldonado
I love your quote. You can't find your soulmate unless you know your own soul. And so for me, that was the case. I was in the corporate world for years until I stepped out and started doing the work. Work I love. I didn't meet you, you know, I started coaching and then I met you and I was so in love with what I did. It. You weren't the whole, like, you didn't rescue, rescue me from my boring life. It was. I already had a full life and I just wanted someone to share it with it. Sometimes if you don't know your purpose, that other person again becomes the container for your happiness and your purpose in life. And, and, and that's a lot to put on another person. A lot to put on another person. So. And I was happier. Right. You said that I was one of the happy girls. You ladies, you went out with.
- [08:17]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Probably the only happy person I met. But yeah. So marriage is. Relationship is a sacred duty. In other words, it Is part of your. Your purpose to express the love that you. You're capable of bringing into this world, whether it be through children or through building just a great business like we did together, you know, working on something or just simply being together. Right. That becomes an aspect of your higher purpose. And that is when relationships then take. Take on this spiritual aspect to them.
- [09:01]
Deborah Maldonado
It's almost like the soul now is in charge of the relationship versus the ego. And it's a beautiful place to be. Jung says. Here's another quote from archetypes in the collective works, archetypes in the collective unconscious. The love partner becomes the carrier of the projected image of the soul.
- [09:21]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah, that is. I mean, Jung was so conscious light projection and poetic, right? Yeah. I mean, that's the way I read it that now you. Instead of projecting your anima or animus onto another person, you're choosing to experience that archetype through this relationship. And in choosing that, you're living out that higher purpose through. Through that projection.
- [09:54]
Deborah Maldonado
Would you say that we really can't see a lot like we. We have. We can have access to the anima, animus as we grow and move through after shadow work, but that other person being that space in the physical world to be that projection, in a way, isn't it, like, easier for us to see and connect and have a relationship with that soulful part of ourselves?
- [10:18]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
That's right. We know from Eastern philosophy in the Upanishads, it explains very beautifully that it's very difficult for our minds to hold a concept of divinity, infinity, all these awesome concepts. We quickly forget them because they're too vast and too powerful. But when we project them onto a person, a personality, we can hold that image very clearly. Right. And that person represents to. For us the divine.
- [10:55]
Deborah Maldonado
Like a symbol.
- [10:55]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Right. For us, a symbol of the divine. But in. In the symbol has the same impact as if we were holding the concept of divinity in its totality in our mind.
- [11:10]
Deborah Maldonado
And so, yeah, it's just a way like, almost like a part of our soul we can touch and beautiful. So through that projection, the growth that we have is that. That feeling of that otherworldliness that we feel in relationship, that infatuation, it's giving us to like a sippy, the nectar of immortality in a way where we're getting a. A taste in our physical form of this spiritual essence of who we are in. In that beautiful way. And we just, unfortunately, we project it. But if we know that we're projecting, it's like we can. We can experience it more, interact with it more and less of a. It's out there and I. I'm going to lose it. But more in a. Like a reverence and like a. Almost like a dedication or a connection to it. More like. Almost like we're connected in that level.
- [12:02]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah. It's a beautiful way of externalizing the archetype so that we experience it both within and without.
- [12:10]
Deborah Maldonado
So the inner and outer. How does conscious marriage work with the internal and the external? Because there is stuff that happens in marriage. There's bill paying, there's, you know, the family visiting. There's, you know, goals that we want to attain and what are we making for dinner. Like the ordinary world of marriage, what we're doing with our careers. How do we balance that inner and outer with like the ordinary regular life stuff that you have to deal with in marriage.
- [12:40]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah, I think that's part of it. The integrating the divine with the everyday. The profane. Right. That everything is one thing, I guess.
- [12:51]
Deborah Maldonado
Spiritual practice.
- [12:53]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
That's right. That. Cooking a meal, cleaning the house, taking care of business.
- [13:00]
Deborah Maldonado
Right.
- [13:01]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
As well as meditation and being in nature or experiencing peak experiences. All of those things are one and the same thing. They're all our human experience, our mind. This love that we experience together.
- [13:19]
Deborah Maldonado
There was a Ram Dass wrote a book after the Ecstasy, the Laundry. It's like we have to still chop wood and carry water. So let's. Here's another quote that I love, and it's been paraphrased a lot by Jimi Hendrix, I think. Got it from young. Where love reigns, there is no will to power. And where the will to power is paramount, love is lacking. So again, we're talking about the. The balance of power and love. And so how does that play out? And how can we look at love, the. The feeling of love, like pure love as a way to have a spiritual experience? I know in Eastern philosophy there's a type of yoga called Bhatki Yoga, which is devotional love. It's very similar to. I was raised Catholic. And so that devotion to Jesus or God, that. And other religions have that kind of devotional love. This is. So it's similar to that. That love.
- [14:14]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
That's right. It's a way to cultivate strong emotional attachment and bonding to the divine image through a symbol. And it's okay to forget that you're. You're seeing a symbol because you're moving towards this understanding of the divine within you.
- [14:38]
Deborah Maldonado
So as you are fault, you have love for that other person. Just like a parent has love for their child. It's a sacred experience.
- [14:46]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
That's right.
- [14:46]
Deborah Maldonado
It's not a, I need like a mother and child. It's, it's not, oh God, I want that child to love me back. Maybe as an adult and they get older, but like that initial bond is, is very pure and that's kind of. And then when you're with someone who is, you're not projecting your ego shadow onto them or ego stuff onto them and you're purely as an act of love for that person. And you're, you're really doing things out of love, not out of attachment, not out of fear, not out of wanting them to love you back or say thank you. You know, you're just, you do it because you just love that person.
- [15:24]
Deborah Burndt Maldonado
Are you looking for a satisfying career as a life coach? If you are seeking a deeper path, better training and growth, Creative Mind University offers an ICF accredited life coach training program that goes beyond surface positive thinking and into a powerful process of real transformation. You can start your new career as a certified life coach trained in a unique methodology based on Jungian theory, Eastern spirituality and social neuroscience. Get the chance tools to become your true self, change your life and the lives of others. Visit creativemindlife.com click on apply and speak with one of our team members today to discuss your future and possibilities of becoming a certified Life coach. That's creativemindlife.com.
- [16:19]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah. And the romantic love experience is very much tied to spirituality. We see it in Rumi, for example, where he says, my love for God, for the divine, is very similar to my experience with my lover, my partner. Right. It's this very. It's a way of transcending myself, a way of getting beyond myself where I am, I'm one with everything. And you have to begin with one with this other person or this other being. And then you can, you're opening up yourself to be in one with everything in the universe so that you're no longer seeing the external and the internal as separate things. They're all one and the same thing.
- [17:10]
Deborah Maldonado
So when you talk about, or Jung talks about the sacred union, do you want to talk a little bit about that? It's. It is really the union of opposites, the union of the outer and inner love and power, the balance, like union of both, but also the soul and the divine.
- [17:29]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah. And Jung always saw life in a symbolic way. So he talks about entering the symbolic life so that when you see two people being joined in matrimony or coming together in partnership, you're seeing the union of the conscious mind and the unconscious mind becoming one. And what happens when two people come together? New life emerges again, right? New life, regeneration. This is the. The coming together of two elements that creates a third.
- [18:10]
Deborah Maldonado
Well, also even in a higher level, if you think about Eastern philosophy in my book, like a spark from fire, there's this soul which is the individual soul, Atman. And then the collective, you know, the self, which is, well, everything, right. The God, higher self. And so he says in the Adi Shankara, say the spark is exact element of the fire, but it's just different in name and form. And so through our work with our shadow and then we have connection on the animus level. And this divine love, we could also connect that we as an individual soul is a part of the all that is, you know, that one consciousness. So we are consciousness. So it's. It's like almost like it's leading us to something even greater than just having this beautiful relationship. But we start to have a different relationship with who we are as ourselves. So the union of the soul and the self is that there's no separation anymore. I'm not just an individual soul trying to get back to heaven. It's like I'm already in heaven. I am heaven. I am consciousness.
- [19:24]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
And we see that this expression of the higher self can begin with something as simple as working with a trigger.
- [19:34]
Deborah Maldonado
Yes.
- [19:34]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
In other words, a projection.
- [19:37]
Deborah Maldonado
And so whether you're just starting a relationship or even on a first date, I say the relationship starts on that first date or even that first exchange, you're in a relationship, even if it's for five minutes and they never write back, there's a relationship there. What is the pattern? What is triggering you? If you're in a marriage a long time, what triggers you about your partner? Like, what is the one thing you wish they would change? And then examine that and say, let me sit with this feeling of why this bugs me so much. What. What do I get from it? Why is my. Why is my ego so attached to him or her being different than they are? What does that mean about me? And instead of, you know, blaming yourself or feeling bad, you're just getting curious. And you're not. You're not, you know, dismissing anything that's dangerous or hurtful. If someone's doing. You're more like curious about. Yeah, we're talking about like idiosyncrasy, syncrasy. Idiosyncrasies, synchronies. I'll say that again, I'll have to edit that out. There's little Piccadilly that your partner shows up with or as simple as, oh, they wear their shirts wrong or they're wearing sneakers with jeans. You know, like all these like weird things that show up in your life. There's a great example of this. There's that movie no one wants this with a girl that was, she was Christian and she was in love with a rabbi and everything was great. And then there was this moment where she's like, I'm getting the ick. And it's like, oh. She goes, once you get the ick, you can't go back. And the ick is that that trigger. It's like she's seeing her own self. And so those of you who ever had the ick, think about it. It's not them supporting to something about you and figure out what that is. So you stop pushing love away or stop pushing your partner away and really opening yourself up to a deeper level of love.
- [21:34]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
All right. Stuff.
- [21:35]
Deborah Maldonado
Yes. So thank you for joining us for the relationship series. We'll be back next week with a new series. We're so excited that you are joining us and getting this information. If you want more, please subscribe to our channel. Check the show notes. We have some really great resources there for you. If you're interested in being a coach and teaching this deep young in psychology and coaching model, we have our next cohort starting soon. We'd love to for you to be a part of it and if you want to get coached yourself, we have a coaching services division that you can get coaching from a young and coach. So find out more in the show notes below.
- [22:15]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
See you soon.
- [22:16]
Deborah Maldonado
Take care. Bye bye.
- [22:19]
Deborah Burndt Maldonado
Thank you for joining us. And don't forget to subscribe to Creative Mind Soul Sessions and join us next week as we explore another deep topic where you can consciously create your life with Creative Mind Soul Sessions. See you next time.