B (3:59)

Make assumptions. Right.

C (4:00)

Yeah, I understand what they're thinking and what they're looking at, what's going on with them. And that just happens automatically. We start when we're babies.

B (4:10)

Would that be. That also would be facial recognition, I would think would be the first thing that a baby sees. You've shown me many videos over the years where if the mother changed faces and then you had worked a lot in the field of autism way in the beginning helping diagnose kids with autism and on the spectrum, neurodivergent I guess would be the appropriate term now. And one thing I learned from you, from a layperson's perspective, is how much impact these little subtleties that we take for granted. And that. That's why facial expressions. The kids who have autism in some cases can't read faces in a way or recognize faces. There's. There's something with that that we have that's part of our brain as a normal person. So we can. When we didn't have language, I guess back in the cave stages, the facial expressions were the way we communicated many times.

C (5:02)

Yeah, there's some of that. But there. There is also the flip side that maybe these kids are not interested in what the faces communicate actually.

B (5:14)

Right. A typical person would make an assumption based on what they see as normal. And that's this idea of normality really comes into play. Like what is normal and what is not normal? And that we should stop thinking of people that way. That we're all unique in different ways. Maybe you're more like the main group than the other, but doesn't mean it's not normal like a normal human functioning. It's just a different way.

C (5:37)

The word normal is not used that as much. And now it's typical meaning.

B (5:43)

Yeah, typical.

C (5:44)

Most people, you know, are doctor Typical.

B (5:46)

Sounds a little more PC. Yeah. So. So, yeah. So you noticed these missing pieces in social interactions and then you were. They were able to identify like what genes? Like a genetic component to what those genes did.

C (6:02)

Well, let's back up a little bit. The, the gene question that comes in, in a bigger model, since when I was training it was called the biopsychosocial model, meaning you're, you're considering the biology as much as you can and you know, and trying to see how much does it play into the presentation, the current presentation. You're also looking at the psychology, meaning what's this person's environment and what have they learned, how are they taught, how much attention do they receive from parents and what kind of attention and on so forth. So that's the social aspect or the psychological aspect. And then the social aspect is what kind of support systems do they have? Do they, do they have funds to address their special needs or are they struggling? Those kind of things all.

B (6:55)

So the parents. Right. If they support the child's diagnosis too, or the child's needs. Some cultures don't accept that, any kind of label and so they deny it and they think the doctors don't know anything. My son or daughter is normal or typical and they're not going to seek treatment. We're, you know, I mean, even back in the day I had a aunt who was mentally ill, mentally challenged, and they, her mother didn't put, my grandmother didn't put her in school. It's like that's just what they did. So I wonder if she had school and, and a social structure and learning what, how she could have developed differently. So, so that's where you're saying it's like not just genetics, not just your parents, but also the social structure at large and how that works.

C (7:43)

Yeah. So let's look at just pure genetics again, the biological aspect of it. And we know genes are like the primary way we get here. Half of our genes come from our mothers and half from our fathers. And together, you know, voila, we are, we're in the world all of a sudden.

B (8:07)

But also too genetically. Yeah, like, but we had that initial father. But I don't know if this is premature, but we're also have every DNA from every genetically from every human being. You know, we're genetic. Right. Pretty much. Like we have these core human patterns that are transpersonal.

C (8:29)

Yeah. I mean the genetic science as a field is, is just fascinating. Darwin's idea of evolution really evolved through, through kind of inheritance understanding. Right. That, that was his main question. Like how do, how do species evolve and, and grow and, and adapt? That's still considered one of the best ideas any human being ever had like, hands down, it's considered like, wow, that's some powerful thinking there by a human being and, you know, just using their mind to figure things out. That's still way up there, right? Nope. But for us as coaches, this information is helpful because if, if we're talking about motivation, if we're talking about conditioning pattern disruption, let's say, or change optimal performance, right? How, how can we get the brain and the mind, body to perform optimally? All those questions have to do with genetics. I mean, if, if you don't see the connection, you're missing a big chunk of information here. And there's more and more information coming by the day now because of AI. AI is helping scientists that study genetics figure out a lot more about how these proteins are built and reproduce and construct and so forth.

B (9:55)

Well, can I just say that when you first told me this, I was surprised because I thought, and I, I think maybe a lot of people may think this too. Maybe I'm just the only one who thought this, but I thought genetics were more. Am I going to have brown hair, eye color? Do I, you know, have a, you know. You know, they say the alcoholism is a gene or smoker, you know, addictive personality, but mostly genetic predisposition to cancer and things like that, a physical stuff, you know, and I never realized you told me this, the first time I've heard it was from you, is that our personality is. There's genetic aspects to our personality that we're born with. So my question is, well, we're going to talk about this today, but my big question is, I think we should answer today is are we stuck with our DNA inheritance or is there a way to change it or transcend it? And the kind of, the myths out there of how that could happen, like there's a camp that's like, this is your DNA makeup and this is who you are and let's cope with it. And then these other ones that are taking DNA epigenetics and taking far claims, you know, like, you could change your genetics overnight or let me get into your DNA and edit it, that kind of stuff. So we're going to kind of go see both camps, but the question is, can we, if we're born with genes that aren't optimal for success or optimal for being having a thin body or optimal for having, you know, friends and good relationships, are we doomed? What's the answer?

C (11:28)

Rob? Yeah, I'm glad you asked. And I took some notes and I wrote down some notes so that I get it right, because this Is a big. These are big ideas, let's say. And we want to communicate as clearly as possible to people that are interested. Right. And especially coaches that are. That could possibly use this information. So the strongest overall frame right now in genetics and understanding the genetics of what builds up. Well, what builds us as human beings. Right. Personality and behavior are not simply inherited. So personality and behavior is not simply inherited, Meaning that you're not destined to be a certain way just by. Through your inheritance. Right through. Through DNA, your mom and dad, let's say, these, these qualities, these, these things, these phenomena that we call behavior and personality. They emerge from ongoing, meaning, continuous interaction among genes, brain development, which means nutrition, oxygen level, education, caregiving. How much attention are your parents or your sitters paying to you? Stress levels. Are you under stress chemically, socially, financially, Culture and family patterns. Yeah. So all.

B (13:00)

So there's this myth that you could find the one cause for a pattern in your life. Like, I gotta get to the original cause. Yeah, everyone's trying to look for that. I know when I was a hypnotherapist, it was like, regress them back to the original sensitizing event. But what you're saying is that there is no original. Maybe the original event is you're born, or the cells, you got your father's cells, the sperm and the egg. That's the original part. And do you wanna go back to birth and. But you know, we try to, like, and try to figure out what's the source of our patterns. And so you're saying that it's really hard to pinpoint the source because of this.

C (13:36)

Yes. And in general, let's reduce it down to. In a more simple way, what we're saying is that the gene interacts with the environment, the environment gives the gene feedback, and then the genes adjust or don't adjust. Right. Or they try to do their best. And it's that interaction between gene and environment that gives us a better picture of where the science of genetics is at. It's.

B (14:07)

Well, look at Darwinian theory.

C (14:09)

It's not simply saying, yeah, there's a gene for alcoholism, and you have that, therefore you're gonna get it. No, it's a gene environment interaction. Whatever percentage that the geneticists or the doctors tell you you have of getting something, the environment is gonna play a big role in that. And the more conscious you are of that, the more you can interact. Because, you know, what kills people most of us these days, they're not germs, they're not diseases, like, you know, the plague or the, the pandemic or anything like that. What kills us is lifestyle. What we eat, how we sleep, how we don't sleep, whether we exercise or not. Lifestyle essentially what stress levels. It's what does people in. Therefore can you change lifestyle? Yeah, it's the, it's the primary thing you can change.

B (15:05)

It's.

C (15:05)

It's the one thing that you have control of. Yet most people feel helpless when they're told, oh, you have this problem and that problem. And you know, they believe the statistics or whatever they tell them and therefore they end up kind of going down that route.

B (15:22)

So, so can I just ask, this is the very important. The genetics interacting with the environment is basically the basis of Darwin's work, is that the adaptation of the species based on what is needed. So even the, the different types of. I don't, I'm not an anthropologist. I don't know the different type of humanoid and all those levels Neanderthal. But there was something that. Where the frontal lobe was developed and in us, so. But also just different personality traits worked better with different tribes. And then the tribe had to have a mixture, I guess, of those traits because we needed someone to be sensitive, that can be intuitive. We needed someone who was strong and had muscles so they can go out and hunt or fight and protect the ground. And we need a fertile fertility. We needed creativity. We needed like all a bunch of different, like as a tribe. And so each. Those kind of genetic developments happened to help the species survive. And because one person can't have them all right, so it's kind of like a group culture and then the environment and then over time, we. Millions of years of evolution, we are here.

C (16:37)

Yes. So another note on what we inherit. We do not inherit a finished personality. We inherit biases, tendencies, sensitivities and developmental probabilities. So we're full of potential. But not all the potential is expressed because the environment doesn't always support everything we're able to do. And so we are, we're always looking at that interaction. Now that's again, that's the right understanding of genetics. That it's. Our genetics is interacting. All these kind of tendencies and biases and sensitivities that we're born with, they're interacting with the environment, culture, environment, environmental health, or lack of, and giving us the results that we get.

A (17:35)

You've spent years building success and achieving what others would only imagine. But yet something deeper is calling. A desire for work that's meaningful, transformative and rooted in who you really are. At CreativeMind, we train professionals to guide others through real psychological transformation using Jungian principles, Eastern spirituality and social media neuroscience. No cliches, no surface level tools, just depth, structure and purpose. Our ICF accredited Jungian Life coach training program provides a profound professional training in small cohorts that includes personal transformation with a dedicated coach and powerful tools to help you guide others in a deep, lasting transformation. Step into that next chapter of your personal and professional evolution. Join us by visiting creativemindlife.com and speak to an admission specialist today. That's creativemindlife.com.

B (18:46)

Is this something that's happening throughout our life? Are there certain, like maybe we always talk about early childhoods. Could you talk about stages, life stages, and why the early childhood seems to be the most like the formation of our like core patterns in our life?

C (19:04)

Yeah, that, that whole field, I mean is just, it's so new, relatively new, but there's so much information coming now about brain development because that's really what we're talking about. Are there sensitive periods in brain development, especially in the first nine, ten years? Yes, there are sensitive periods. There used to be, they used to be called critical periods because people saw them as that, that if you miss a window of opportunity, let's say, to get language in, in there, to teach a child language, if you miss that window, that child may never catch up. It's that.

B (19:49)

But you see those feral children they find that have been like abused or like neglected children that never were cultivated and then they missed that window. And so to get them to a typical functioning is really hard. And it's not because the genetics weren't there, but because the environment was not conducive. So it's like a play of both.

C (20:11)

That's right. So these sensitive periods are early on. They're really critical. All right. They're critical because they only allow a certain window for you to acquire language, social skills, intelligence, all, all these sensitivities and abilities that we have. The early on the brain is, is producing and over producing neuronal connections to allow you to express your full potential. Then it starts to prune away as you start to get more specialized. As you start to grow up. After 10 years old, you start to develop your own kind of personality and your interests. Right. And so the brain starts to prune away the connections that you don't need very much like a gardener trimming the trees that are overgrown and saying let's just keep the ones that look good and you know, line the streets and.

B (21:13)

Or we're using this one, let's keep using it. This One we're not using. So let's save energy. So let me ask you a question, and I know this is pretty common knowledge, but, you know, we get a mixture of our mother and father. So each sibling. So I have three siblings. Each of us have a different variation. We don't have the exact DNA unless we're identical twins. We wouldn't have the exact DNA. We would have a mixture. So if we're all brought up in the same environment, we all have a different experience. Well, we have different experiences and then that also forms. So what if we all had the same kind of tendency? So if there's anxiety, let's say there, there's a tendency to have panic attacks and anxiety that's been passed down from like generation to generation. We see the lineage. Everyone has a tendency. So you're saying that really there's this sense of like, we're almost like looking for it to, to activate. And then how we personally respond is different for everyone. So if you're the oldest child, you might respond to anxiety in a very different way than the youngest child. And then if you are the oldest child, your parents might have been more stressed as young parents versus when they had you at late 30s. And they kind of are financial more financially sad, or they kind of have a groove and they're not struggling or events happen in the different timelines of your childhood of the family life could affect that. So it's like that's where there's a lot of mixture. It's not even if we had the same, like, genetic code for every sibling shared it. Even the environment will change the experience.

C (22:51)

Yes. And that's what saves us basically. Because if, if we all inherited the same level of anxiety, let's say it runs in the family, then we'd all be in trouble. Right. Because we'd have a very anxious group of people kind of reinforcing their own, their anxieties. But, but it's like this, this is a simple model. You have a predisposition. Let's say you're both parents are anxious types or have a, a tendency. Right. To, to be anxious. So you inherit the genes for that. The, the, the genetic. I mean, there's nothing wrong with anxiety. You need it. We need anxiety to, to give us. It's like a, the, the red light on the, on the car. Right. That when it goes off, that means you gotta check something.

B (23:41)

It's almost like we all have the gene for anxiety. And then it's a, like you had talked about their ranges.

C (23:47)

Yeah. Like we have A spectrum.

B (23:49)

A spectrum. Could you talk about that a little bit? I've never heard of that.

C (23:53)

Yeah.

B (23:53)

So maybe you can explain it in a short time.

C (23:55)

Well, because if we evolved in the jungle, we needed to. When we heard rustling in the. In the woods or in the leaves. Right. We needed to think, that could be a bear or a mountain lion. I better check it out. I better be ready to run or fight or freeze or something. Hide. If that anxiety wasn't there, we would be too careless and we wouldn't survive. We get.

B (24:21)

And there's people that are missing that fear gene. I remember seeing a documentary where a woman wasn't afraid of people and she was married, and she would be. Just go to a bar and just go home with another person. Like, she had no fear to stop her from being with a stranger, and the husband would always have to kind of take her home.

C (24:41)

Yeah, but. But interesting that we all. We have this level of anxiety. Let's say part of it comes from the inheritance. But then we're also observing and learning as children from our parents how they respond. Yeah. There are role models in how do. How do they manage stress? And now we have the genes from them, and now we're observing them manage stress in a particular way. In other words, they're teaching us how do you respond to stress? So you're not only getting the genetics, but you're also getting the social learning aspect. As human beings, we do not have to experience something ourselves to learn it. So that if we see somebody touch something that is hot and they, you know, pull their hand away, we understand just by observing, that's hot. I'm not gonna touch that.

B (25:46)

So if mother. There's a lot of stress in the household. Father's screaming at the mother for some reason, and the mother. There's a lot of anxiety, fighting over bills or whatever, and the mother retreats, she goes to her room. The child learns, oh, when it gets too crazy, you back down and run away. Versus or if the mother fought and stood up for herself, it would be a completely different thing. Oh, you fight in that time. So there's that kind of. We learn those. Those adaptations through. We adapt through the experiences. And then also with our interaction with our parents, if we're anxious, how do they treat our anxiety? You know, how they responded to our anxiety? Did they go, like, get scared? Like, I. I hear some parents talk about, like, getting afraid of their child's anxiety and wanting to fix the child and coddle the child, like, making it wrong. And then the child feels like Anxiety is wrong, which actually makes her want to the child, want to push it away or not be scared of it as well. Would that be the case?

C (26:47)

That's it. So we learn emotional styles from our parents. So because we are, have their genes in part and then we're observing them act it out and we learn it now, it doesn't mean we're stuck there of course, because we, we, let's say our, our genetics is slightly different, it's not identical to theirs. And also then our reasoning is slightly different, that we have, we have access to teachers, we have access to friends, to relatives that handle anxiety in different ways. We might say, oh, but I learned that this other way from this other person. And that makes sense.

B (27:29)

I like that one better. This fits me. And then also genetically, if you're a parent and you don't like, you have a genetic, from your mother genes around anxiety. And then the father is not connected that way out on Hudgene's work. But just assuming the father's the one with the anxiety, it's not, it's not the same. So but when it's the same, it's almost like you're, it's a double whammy because now you're, you have the same genes that are responding. So when we talk about all this, the temperament, like you say, emotional styles, it's these life experiences, we, we organize them very early. You're saying like our emotional intelligence is organized very early in life. Would you say before 10 or even younger, like before 5? I know there's some studies that it's like before year three that the most of our emotional template is already formed.

C (28:23)

Yeah, we've all seen those nature films. Right, where let's say a horse or a deer is born and within minutes they're up and running or walking around following the mom, the mom around. Right. In a sense we have some of that in our emotional brain. Our emotional brain, on day one, it's ready to go, it's like activated. We look at faces, we start to bond with faces. We recognize our moms very early on. We can recognize faces from non faces, in other words from mixed up cartoons or. Yeah, so they do experiments where they, they put the eyes upside down and the mouth in different places and the, the baby will not look at that.

B (29:10)

Is that why little kids are afraid of monsters? In a way, because they're not like, they're, they're unknown.

C (29:16)

We, we're, we're organized. Our brain is looking for symmetry, balance. And so we're kind of geared towards certain beautiful things, things that, and then

B (29:29)

also emotional good emotions. So if a parent is anxious all the time trying to hold the baby and having three other kids running around and the mother, it's doesn't intend to, to be anxious around the baby or feed that baby anxiety, but the baby absorbs that in a way. They think life is stressful even from a very early age. It's chaotic.

C (29:49)

Yeah. So that's another point about the emotional system because it's ready to go on day one. We're absorbing a lot of information from our parents unconsciously. We don't even remember exactly what was going on when we were, let's say from birth to three or four. Most of us don't have any memories or just very few memories here and there. But what was going on emotionally in the family was impacting us really powerfully because we were like a little sponge absorbing everything. There was a lot of anxiety fighting or a lot of harmony and love. We, we were just absorbing all that. And our brain was saying, this is the kind of world you're being born into. You better be ready to face this.

B (30:41)

So let me ask you this because I have lots of friends. I never had kids, but I had lots of friends who have. And a lot of times they say the second one is like the more relaxed than the first one. And well, sometimes it's opposite. But I was just wondering if a new mother is really anxious already because she doesn't know how to be a mom yet, she doesn't know how to feed and she, the baby's crying and then by the second child she gets in the groove so she's more relaxed. That could affect like birth order too, could affect that thing. So genetically you say we have these ranges, so let's just pull out anxiety for now because everyone can relate to that. And so you have this gene for anxiety. You have this spectrum that you're on, like pre programmed basically. And then the environment either increases. It could increase it or suppress it or not suppress it, but like not, not make it so heightened almost. Not lower it, but not activate it as much. Is that what you're saying?

C (31:38)

Yes. That flexibility that we can learn from our parents or in both inherit and learn is really useful. Right. If, if there's one definition of mental health, I would say it's that flexibility, the ability to, to deal with unexpected circumstances, to not freak out, not fight or flight. Right. But to stay with it and ask how do I adapt to this? How do I make a sense of this situation? That's probably the healthiest human response to the environment.

B (32:16)

And all these patterns, we want to say this over and over again. No matter what type of even horrible experiences some people have endured, that it doesn't, it, it doesn't limit you that there is a way to transcend all this other things. The patterns that we create because of those experiences are actually a sign of a healthy mind. So what chaos. So the child is a little more rigid. That's what that child needed to survive. It's a survival strategy. Not a wound, not a damaged part. It's actually a functioning mind and then we can outgrow it and we can use a new tool. One last thing before we go and then we'll, we're going to continue this series because so fascinating heritability, the misunderstanding of that.

C (33:00)

Yeah, there's a lot of misunderstanding of that and it has to do really, I blame the sciences because they, they need to present their findings to the public so that the public can use the information instead of holding out. Right. And just talking amongst themselves in the

B (33:21)

universities, writing papers for each other, journal articles.

C (33:26)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They have to find a way to communicate the, these ideas. So what we know is that we don't know a lot. That's a good thing because if you listen to the so called experts on YouTube and you know, other social media, it sounds like, man, we, we got it figured out. We got everything figured out. You know, that's not the case. Most of what we know about the brain is tiny little bits of information and we're, we're simply trying to put it all together and trying to make sense of it. There's still a lot to learn. For those of you interested in, in studying neuroscience, psychology, genetics, the fields are wide, wide open right now and in big need of really good thinkers to come along and use this information in creative ways. The misconceptions about irritability is that some of the old ones, right, there's a gene for alcoholism, there's a gene for depression, there's a gene for anxiety. That if you have these genes you're doomed, that you're going to live these things out. That's not the case. Again, it's a brain environment or gene environment interaction and you have a lot more power than you think as a human being because if you're conscious of these things, if you're conscious of the patterns in your family system, you don't have to replay them, you can start to modify that, change them, even if it's not, you know, a one shot thing. And you're done. You can practice finding new ways of coping with anxiety, coping with depression, changing family patterns of alcoholism or overeating or lack of education, whatever it is, you can consciously make decisions that will change and alter your life in powerful, powerful ways. And of course, that's why we love coaching, because coaching is precisely that process of another human being helping you make those changes. Not by doing something special to you, hypnotizing you, or treating you in some strange way.

B (35:46)

It's true, right? Like a magical healing.

C (35:49)

No, it's by collaborating with you, talking about, how do I make these changes that I want to make in my life? How can I practically start to make these changes and learn new ways of being in the world?

B (36:05)

And this is why we love Jungian psychology and teach Jungian coaching is because Jung gives us a map of the psychological layer of this. He says, we're not what we've. You know, we're not our childhood. You know, we're. We're free to become who we meant to be. Like, we have freedom. And Eastern philosophy that we teach, as well as part of our philosophical foundation is all about, you're already. You'd have a pure potential. So the genetics show us like a little piece of. And I think what's harmful. And I remember, you know, when I was first starting out in personal development, everything was a personality test. And this is who you are. And you take the test that's just a snapshot of your default. It's not a life sentence. And if you had a trauma or a terrible thing happen to you, you don't have to identify that as you for the rest of your life, you can be free. I think a lot of times people that experience really tough childhoods or really tough experiences, they feel like their life is damaged forever. And then all the best they can do is just cope. And we know that, yes, there's strong genetics that help us survive those experiences and come up with strategies. But the psychology of individuation is all about how do I transcend these things? How do I identify outside of my personal personality concept and step into something completely new? And that is what's possible.

C (37:27)

That's right. So this ability to adapt again, Darwin's great idea, is still very viable today. We can learn new ways of adapting. No matter how difficult the situation is, as long as we're conscious, we can make decisions. We can find ways to adapt and take the reins of our life. In a sense.

B (37:53)

Yeah. And more than just cope, but really transcend the limitations that were placed in us to survive, to be someone who creates something in their life. I mean, that we're creative beings. That's what we're. We're, you know, we're here. And that's why, Dar, if you think of Darwin's theory, evolution, I think humans have the ability to evolve and we all have that. We don't have to get, say, stuck with what the cards we were dealt. Whether it's genetic or environment, we're not stuck there. And I think that's so important.

C (38:24)

Yeah. The other big misconception is on intelligence. People pay too much attention to this idea that you were born with a certain level of intelligence. Right. And they use the IQ test and all this stuff. And that if you are at a certain level, that you're stuck there. No, you can grow intelligence. You can actually improve. Even the basic standard test, you can improve on that test by studying, by cultivating your mind. But even beyond that, we know there are different types of intelligences.

B (39:00)

Yes.

C (39:01)

So that some people might be good at book learning and other people just learn by doing and observing and. And they're more into nature and all kinds of different intelligences that make the human race so diverse and so powerful. Right. Because together, that means we can do anything together as a species. Once we put our heads together, we can solve any problem.

B (39:28)

There's also social intelligence, too. There's some people that are just really good with people. Right. And so it's. It's just to base your whole whole beingness on an IQ test or a personality test that really limits who we are. And that's really Jung's idea. He didn't believe in personality tests. He talked about the introvert, extrovert. But he. He really. He abandoned. That was early in his career. And he abandoned it because he's like, I don't want to lock people in labels. It's helped us to understand, like, it's. This stuff helps us to understand our patterns, but it doesn't give us a great idea of how to transcend them. Except for, I call rearranging the furniture. And what we're thinking of is transcending having the next evolution of who you are versus a shinier, better coping mechanism that you. That you use and that you have to remind yourself every day because the pattern is so ingrained in you. And that's just the way I am. So, yeah, it's really amazing how this works. We have so much more. In the next upcoming episodes, we're gonna talk about the brain. More about the brain and how the family frames the environment. We're gonna talk about intergenerational transmission. Can we experience the leave a biological echo in the world? I love that stuff. So lots more to come. I hope you don't forget to subscribe to our podcast if you're watching us on YouTube, the channel. Great, great stuff coming up for this month and really appreciate you being here and being a part of our work.

C (40:57)

See you next time.

B (40:59)

Take care. Bye Bye.

A (41:01)

Thank you for joining us for Jung on Purpose with Deborah Maldonado and Dr.

B (41:05)

Rob Maldonado of Creative Mind. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast

A (41:10)

before you leave and join us each week.

B (41:12)

We'll see you soon. Sam.