Soul Sessions | Jungian Coaching Podcast by CreativeMind

Episode: How People Pleasing Impacts the Coaching Relationship: Five 5 Personality Traits

Hosts: Debra Berndt Maldonado and Robert Maldonado PhD
Release Date: January 27, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Debra and Dr. Rob continue their series on the Big Five personality traits, focusing specifically on agreeableness and its impact on the coaching relationship. They delve into how people-pleasing tendencies, particularly when they manifest as over-agreeableness, can challenge a coach’s effectiveness. Drawing from Jungian psychology, their own coaching experiences, and social neuroscience, the hosts dissect the importance of balancing empathy with boundaries, and the pitfalls of over-identifying with clients. They share practical advice for both new and experienced coaches, emphasizing self-awareness, individuation, and the necessity of ongoing personal development.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Agreeableness in Coaching: The Double-Edged Sword

• What is agreeableness?

  • Dr. Rob: “Agreeableness helps a coach build rapport and trust with clients, creating a foundation for meaningful work. So it's really necessary.” (01:40)
  • It’s about being friendly and easy to connect with, but also having boundaries.

• Potential pitfalls:

  • Debra: “We become overly agreeable and the pleaser... predominantly women have a hard time because they're so empathetic and so kind and so caring... it gets in their way of them keeping boundaries, setting rules, challenging the client, or having difficult conversations.” (02:22)
  • Over-agreeableness can lead to coaches avoiding conflict and becoming more like a friend or “cheerleader” than a true agent of change.

The Importance of Assertiveness and Accountability

• Coaching is not just about soothing emotions but facilitating real change.

• Debra shares her growth:

  • “When I started holding them accountable, when I started asking difficult questions, all of a sudden it felt really empowering... they were actually doing better than when I was just telling them everything's going to work out.” (04:09)

• Dr. Rob adds: “You have to be assertive and you have to go into uncomfortable situations.” (03:53)

• The goal is collaboration, not hand-holding:

  • “Two minds are better than one, we're teaming up with our clients to help them find the answers for themselves.” (05:09)

Over-Identification, Transference, and Countertransference

• Over-identifying with clients: Absorbing their problems, riding the emotional roller coaster with them, and taking over-responsibility for client outcomes.

  • Debra: “If your ego's in the way, you're going to celebrate when your client has success and then you're going to feel like a failure when they don’t.” (06:41)
  • This tendency can prevent coaches from charging appropriate rates or believing in their own value.

• Transference: Clients unknowingly project their patterns onto the coach.

  • Dr. Rob: “Transference is what the client is going to project onto you and what do you do with that? ...We can put it on the table and talk about it so that it becomes now content for the benefit of the client.” (10:06)

• Countertransference: Coaches unconsciously take on a role expected by the client.

  • Debra: “The coach agrees with the client that they're there to rescue them... would that be counter transference?” (12:20)
  • Dr. Rob: “If you buy into it and you react automatically... you're caught up in counter transference.” (13:31)

Practical Examples and Memorable Moments

• Debra’s “Meditation Editing” anecdote:

  • She shares about making endless audio edits to appease client criticism, revealing a pattern of over-pleasing rooted in countertransference. (15:41)
  • Quote: “‘You used to do like 50 versions of your visualization to please everybody?’ And so that's the counter transference... it's like an old pattern that you're living out through the people.” (16:28)

• The importance of individuation (Jungian term for self-becoming):

  • “The more individuated the coach is, they don't fall into these traps with their clients.” (16:51)
  • This self-work protects coaches from burnout and lets them serve clients more effectively.

Leveraging Resistance, Not Avoiding It

• Advice against weekly sessions to intentionally create “space” for client resistance to surface.

  • Debra: “When you have a session with a client every week... there’s no space for them to have resistance. ...It's when they have that space in between sessions... that's really powerful.” (07:47)

• This resistance becomes material for deep work rather than something to be avoided or soothed.

The Value of Ongoing Coaching and Supervision for Coaches

• “You need to have a coach. You can't do your personal growth through your clients.” (18:51)
• Debra and Dr. Rob strongly advocate that coaches must be doing their own ongoing development, not relying on their work with clients as their own transformative container.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Dr. Rob:

  • “Coaching is about helping the client find their answers for themselves. And it's a collaboration. Right? We're collaborating. Two minds are better than one.” (05:09)
  • “At this point, really understanding transference and countertransference is really important.” (10:06)

• Debra:

  • “When I started holding them accountable, when I started asking difficult questions, all of a sudden it felt really empowering because... they were actually doing better than... just telling them everything's going to work out.” (04:09)
  • “If your ego's in the way, you're going to celebrate when your client has success and then you're going to feel like a failure when they don’t.” (06:41)
  • “You need to have a coach. You can't do your personal growth through your clients.” (18:51)
  • “The more individuated the coach is, they don't fall into these traps with their clients.” (16:51)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:39] Agreeableness defined and its upside in coaching
• [02:22] Pitfalls of agreeableness: Becoming a pleaser, especially for women
• [03:24] The role of assertiveness and holding boundaries
• [04:09] Debra’s personal growth story: moving from soothing to accountability
• [06:09] Over-identifying with clients and its impact on the coaching relationship
• [10:06] Understanding transference and countertransference in coaching
• [15:41] Practical example: Over-pleasing clients with endless revisions
• [18:51] The necessity for coaches to have their own coach and ongoing self-work
• [20:29] Integrating shadow and working through discomfort in the individuation process

Episode Takeaways

• Agreeableness is necessary but must be balanced by assertiveness and boundaries.
• Over-pleasing and over-identification with clients undermine both coach efficacy and client growth.
• Understanding and working through transference and countertransference are essential coaching skills.
• Embracing discomfort and resistance—both yours and theirs—is vital for deep transformation, for the client and the coach.
• Ongoing self-development and supervision are required for ethical and effective coaching.
• Coaches should celebrate client self-efficacy, not attribute client successes (or failures) to themselves.

Next Episode Teaser

• The next episode will focus on neuroticism—“our favorite!”—and explore its role in coaching and personal growth. (21:47)

This episode serves as a potent reminder to coaches and those interested in coaching: true transformation requires self-awareness, the courage to hold boundaries, and a commitment to your own individuation, not just your clients’.