← Jung On Purpose Podcast by CreativeMind
Loading summary
Transcript50 lines
- [00:01]
A
Welcome to Creative Mind Soul Sessions with Deborah Burndt Maldonado and Dr. Rob Maldonado, founders of Creative Mind. Explore personal growth with us through Jungian psychology, Eastern spirituality, and social neuroscience in a deep but practical way. Let's begin.
- [00:25]
B
Hello. Welcome to another episode of Soul Sessions. I'm Debra Maldonada.
- [00:29]
C
I'm Dr. Rob and.
- [00:31]
B
And we are Soul Sessions, a podcast for Jungian coaching. And today we are beginning a new series on relationships. Everyone's favorite topic, our favorite topic. And so we're going to be talking today about the concept of projection, which is very, very popular question we get from our listeners and from our students. What is projection? How do we deal with projection? It's a very common word that is thrown around in the. In, in the world. And so we're going to go deep with projection today, why we project and how we can use it to grow.
- [01:11]
C
Yeah, and it's useful to focus on projection because it will make sense. As we go through the series where we go deeper into the psyche, we're going to be talking about the anima and the animus, as well as how relationships really can serve as the foundation for a spiritual life.
- [01:34]
B
I also want to remind you, if you haven't yet subscribe to our podcast or if you're watching us on YouTube, just click the subscribe button and make sure you get every episode released every week. So let's start with projection. And, well, I think the first thing we need to just clear just some common language so everyone's on the same page, is the ego and why the ego projects. And what is the ego and what is projection? So how would you describe the ego, Rob?
- [02:07]
C
Yeah, there are many definitions and many different models. So I like that we're starting with this because we do have our own, a unique way of defining the ego, which comes from both Jungian psychology and Eastern philosophy. So for us, the ego is this false sense of ourself. It's a false sense of self that is useful. We need it. It's like our part of our mind, body, circulation, respiration. It's a function of the psyche that, you know, keeps us alive and survival function.
- [02:50]
B
Yeah.
- [02:50]
C
And it helps us in social situations as well. But it is false. Ultimately. It is not who we are.
- [02:58]
B
And I always say that with all the theories that we go through with our personal growth and the Jungian theories working with shadow archetypes, the one problem that we're trying to solve for the client and the source of all their pain is that they believe they're the ego that is the source of everyone's pain. And if you could realize that you're not the ego and not get rid of it, but realize there's a true you inside beneath this surface ego self, that your life will be happier just by understanding that concept. So that's only. The only problem you have to solve is that you realize you're not the ego. So the ego, it's not bad. You know, there's some people that say, get rid of the ego. It's the enemy. And you want to dismiss it, not pay attention to it, ignore it. Right. But the ego has a good function. Like you said, it keeps us alive and it also helps us when we're young. Developing a strong ego is very, very powerful because if we didn't have, you know, a way to defend ourselves or a sense of I, a sense of what's right and wrong for me and really checking and protecting ourselves, we would be just chameleons in life and have no, really no sense of power. So the ego is almost like an original false sense of power. But it's necessary early in life. And so we build all our conditioning around this ego to help us create this world that we're in and interact with it and try to get people to like us and do good in the world and all those things.
- [04:40]
C
So Jung says, this is a quote, a direct quote from Jung.
- [04:44]
B
Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.
- [04:51]
C
That's right. Now what he's talking about here is projection, right? If something irritates us in others, he's saying we're projecting something about ourselves that irritates us about ourselves, but we're projecting it onto another person. And it's giving us an opportunity to perceive what is in our unconscious mind.
- [05:18]
B
So one of the. So the projection is a way that the ego uses to deflect like painful judgments of itself and, and puts it on others. So here's a really good example of the inner conflict or self preservation that we have about, you know, we want to not feel bad about ourselves. So if we're really hard on ourselves, and many of us are, I have that negative voice that we're not enough, it's not good enough, and I'm never going to make it. We will tend to project that judgment to kind of move that energy or the focus on us onto other people. It like displaces the energy so we're not so weighted on ourselves. And it's a way to get rid of it. So let's say you're a boss and you feel very insecure about your. Your ability to run a company. You would project that onto your team or onto others, or even judge other entrepreneurs or other business leaders of that of they're not enough because you need to displace it because it's too hard or too painful for the ego to have all that harshness. So we end up displacing it. And so it's a way for us to move that energy and that attention off us and onto others and temporarily gives us a relief.
- [06:43]
C
Yes. Anybody who's done personal development can attest that. That it's uncomfortable by definition. It's uncomfortable to look at the parts of our psyche, our personalities, our quirks and peccadillos that we don't like about ourselves. It's difficult work. So the ego has this ingenious mechanism to say, I'm not the one they are. Right. It's out there. These people are the ones that have this problem, not me. But if we take it as a mirror, right? Because if we think of it as a projection, very much like in a movie, the projector is you, it's in your mind, it's in your psyche, and they are simply the screen. So it's allowing us to see our unconscious mind in a very direct way. And then in coaching, this is a great opportunity to help the client really process this unconscious content that is now being projected onto an external object or another person. And so it's very much visible to the client in a direct way.
- [08:04]
B
Jung also said projections change the world into a replica of one's unknown face. And so we see these characters out there in the world. Some we admire, some we despise, and they're all parts of ourself. And I think that's the hardest thing for people to accept, but it's the only way to freedom.
- [08:25]
C
Yeah. And it's radically different than most other models that try to soothe or simply buy into the projection and tell the client to, well, stay away from those people Or. Or yes, they're bad. And. And you shouldn't, you know, you shouldn't associate with them or try to protect yourself somehow from them.
- [08:47]
B
With boundaries. Try to set some boundaries and not.
- [08:51]
C
Realizing or understanding that this is an opportunity to. To examine your own psyche at the deeper levels, which is what you don't call the unconscious.
- [09:04]
B
And a great way to think of projection is its power, its energy. And that if you don't own it and you project it outwards, it's a powerless place to be because it Feels like that other person needs to change or that other person needs to love me back. That other person needs to tell me I'm okay, or that other person needs to get out of my life and stop irritating me so. Or cause problems in my life and then I can be happy. And so this work, understanding projection is saying, why is this. What is this person showing up for? Like, why is this pattern arising? What do. I don't know. What am I seeing that I can't understand about myself? And I want to say too, that many people misunderstand this as blaming ourselves or saying, well, those people are fine and it's my fault. This is not about whose fault it is or that you're bad, that you project. It's really to reclaim your power. And as long as someone else is in charge of your happiness or fear not having fear in your life, you don't have that power. So it's about reclaiming that and being able to hold and make those decisions. So the next part is how, you know, we project for the ego. There's things that we're conscious of that we know we're projecting. If we just examine them pretty simply. Like I said, that critical voice. We hear that critical voice, we may notice, you know, I tend to be critical of other people. Or this critical voice is getting louder, and it's louder in here. So I feel like I'm projecting more. Great insight. But there's another part of projection that Jung talks about, and it's the projection of the shadow. And that is the things that we don't see in ourselves that we can't get to because it's not conscious that we see in other people. So it's that real feeling of, those are bad people, and I'm not a bad person, and I can't relate to that person. Like, you have no connection to that concept at all. Of that person is related, is connected to you in some way.
- [11:08]
C
Another wonderful quote then. Projections change the world into the replica of one's own unknown face. This is a shadow, essentially. The unknown face is another way of saying the shadow, the shadow in us.
- [11:27]
B
And so why do we project the shadow? Like, what does the projection serve of not really seeing our shadow? And let's talk about the shadow for also too, as far as describing the concept, because it is also a misunderstood term. People throw it around in.
- [11:46]
C
In the.
- [11:46]
B
In the interwebs. And the young's interpretation is. Is quite different than how it's used.
- [11:53]
C
Yeah, the shadow is very much tied to the Persona. So if you think about your Persona as the role that you're playing in on the stage of life, if you will. The shadow is the opposing character, right? It's the opposite, the, the opposition to that particular character. So if you're playing the hero in a play, the shadow would be the.
- [12:19]
B
Villain, or if you're the victim, the shadow would be the, the hero or the, or the perpetrator. It would be the shadow. It would be something that you would never want to accept. And I think when we think about that, this idea of moral, what's objective, what, what is good and what is bad and what is. How. What traits are good and what are bad? And when we do shadow work, we're really examining the concepts in a deeper way, like to how do we, how do we not judge that other person or that other label that we give them? And how could that part, not pushing that away, help us? So, for example, a lot of people that I've worked with over the years have had something happen to them, you know, like bad parent or you know, conflict in their life, maybe a tragedy. And they were like, I don't want to be like that person that was abusive or harmful to me or the one that broke my heart. I don't want to be a heartbreaker. And so what happens is it's not that you become them, but the defense is that you watch yourself so much that you're not free to act because you're afraid of being perceived that way. So instead of, you know, thinking consciously, I just want to be a good person, you're actually hypervigilant about not hurting others. And then what happens is you have like this false Persona that sometimes you do things that you resent because you don't want to hurt another person. So maybe you become a lying to them or mislead people and not consciously and all with good intention. But that's what the shadow is. So it's not as black and like you say, the alter ego. But when we, we reclaim it, it's not so black and white. We start to see, like, oh wait, I do this in a subtle way. You know, like some people talk about controlling, like I hate controlling people. And then they see themselves, they finally acknowledge that they can be controlling it in some ways too. And so. Or I hate victims. But then they end up exhibiting those qualities, but they don't see it. That's the shadow. And so it's helping us become more self aware and the projection helps us avoid that self confrontation, that truly being honest with ourselves. And, and it's Scary, right? It's scary to. To face ourselves in that way. We want. The ego wants us to look like the good person and the person that's right and not wrong and to be really honest with ourselves and our mistakes and, and be compassionate toward ourselves. That is really the true work of shadow work. But the reason why we project is because the ego does not want that confrontation. It does not want to. It feels safe. Making the problem externalize.
- [15:19]
A
Are you looking for a satisfying career as a life coach? If you are seeking a deeper path of training and growth, Creative Mind University offers an ICF accredited life coach training program that goes beyond surface positive thinking and into a powerful process of real transformation. You can start your new career as a certified life coach trained in a unique methodology based on Jungian theory, Eastern spirituality and social neuroscience. Get the tools to become your true self. Change your life and the lives of others. Visit creativemindlife.com click on apply and speak with one of our team members today to discuss your future and possibilities of becoming a certified Life coach. That's creativemindlife.com.
- [16:15]
C
Yeah. So Jung says that the content of the shadow threatens the Persona. In other words, the, the construction of ourselves or our sense of self that we've created. What we pushed away into the shadow threatens that construction.
- [16:34]
B
Right.
- [16:34]
C
And so we. Our ego is the. The kind of the bouncer at the gate that says, no, that cannot be accepted as part of you. Therefore, let's project it onto someone else and they will take the blame. All right? But if we know that principle, then we can see it as, oh, the psyche is actually giving us an opportunity in projection to see what is in our own psyche, in our own shadow.
- [17:06]
B
So it's hard to see your unconscious because it's not conscious. We're not conscious of it. It's very alive and very dynamic. But the way we see it is through acknowledging that that's a projection of my mind. This is a projection.
- [17:22]
C
And of course, that takes a lot of courage to accept that.
- [17:27]
B
Doesn't Jung say it takes a lot of moral courage to face your shadow?
- [17:30]
C
Absolutely. And we can see why, because it means accepting content that we reject in ourselves as well as others. Right? Through the projection, we are seeing that we. We hold these qualities or these traits to be either very bad or too good for us. Right. Or that we're not good enough to. To embody or to represent those traits.
- [17:57]
B
So many people that I know would, that are shy or introverted. They. They admire all these, like a Beyonce, and they think, wow, I could never be like her. But you don't even realize that Beyonce gets sick before every performance. She's super shy. Whitney Houston. I met her when I worked.
- [18:15]
C
She needs to do your work.
- [18:17]
B
I know Whitney Houston. I met her in the 80s when I worked in the entertainment industry, and she was super shy. But she would be on stage and just be, you know, belting out the amazing voice and. And have so such dynamism until she got into the drug stuff. But we. I digress. She was just really tender, and it's just like a different person. And so we would project these people that. I can't be like that. And. And again, that leads us to this idea that what projection does is actually helps us. It makes us lose objectivity of what we're really seeing in others. We've all heard this on people that are looking, going for their dreams. They see other people on Instagram and they think, oh, that person has it all together. And meanwhile, they're just, like, putting up fun videos or they're in a fake house that they rented and acting like they have all this money, but they don't. And that kind of facade. And we just. We're using that projection and we're not seeing that. We don't know what that person is going through. We're just seeing what we assume that that person wants to present to us. And then also what we believe is they're happy. And all those other assumptions.
- [19:32]
C
That's right. So what is the dark side of projection? Let's say somebody continues to do this, projecting onto others, and takes no interest in accepting responsibility for those projections and. And withdrawing them.
- [19:52]
B
And that would be the. The danger, the objectivity that they lose. That was really the most important thing, is that you're seeing. You're not seeing the world or other people as they are. And think about relationships. When we talk about. We all want to be close to other people. Right? We all want to, you know, have intimate romantic relationships, good friendships, good relationships with work people and colleagues and business partners and consultants and people we work with and, you know, everyone in our life, family. But if we don't, we're always projecting. We're not. We. First of all, we don't see them as they are. That's another quote from Young. We see the people as we are, but also that they never get to see us either, because we're just projecting and we're putting up a shadow and there's no, like, real connection.
- [20:45]
C
So it's a big missed opportunity, really, because when the. When we're seeing the Projection. When it comes to the surface, it's really a great opportunity to transform your psyche, to integrate your shadow, to become aware of what is in your unconscious mind so that you're free from its undercurrent of effect, undercurrent of influence. When we talk about self sabotage, when we talk about accidents, when we talk about even mind body illnesses, it's all coming from that unconscious content in. In the shadow, in the unconscious mind. And so when we take the opportunity to look at our projections and accept that they're coming from us, it's transformational. This is transformational work. It is the key to transformation because it starts to release you from your past conditioning, which you've, for some reason or another, identified as undesirable. And you've pushed it into the shadow, into the unconscious mind.
- [22:03]
B
And this is a really. We talk about an erosion of a relationship. Early on, my father was very, like, distant, wasn't very affectionate. And so I never really got close to him emotionally because I was afraid of him. He was always working and stern and not very, like, never hugged us or anything. And I, you know, went through my adult life just feeling very distant from him too. And I thought he was emotionally unavailable. And when I started examining, like, why I want to get close to my father, but I feel like there's this distance, I noticed that there was a whole something holding me back from just being honest and being myself. And I was actually seeing that, losing that objectivity. I was seeing him as this bad, you know, distant man, and me this good girl that just wants love. And then I was like, wait a minute. I had to be honest with myself. I'm also unavailable. I am not putting out a fig leaf and saying, fig leaf, olive branch, and saying, you know, hey. And when I did that, wasn't Until I was 41 years old, I finally said, you know, dad, I want to get close to you. And I just. I just took the chance. When I saw that, it was just a reflection, and it was the most beautiful experience. And then we got really close after that. And, you know, it's just. How many relationships do we lose out on how much time? Like, I feel like I lost 41 years of my life with him to, you know, me in my own head, projecting onto him. And then, you know, of course, I'm not saying he wasn't distant. It was hard for him, too, but it was like I was putting it all on him, that it was his job and it wasn't taking my own responsibility. And when I did, it really changed everything. And it just, I felt like the. My father hugged me for the first time and it was just this beautiful experience that I got to live out before he passed away. I got to have that. And so think about the people in your life that you're judging or harsh on and not giving a chance because you're holding grudges or that you assume they're a certain way and how much of you are holding yourself back from actually reaching out or, or making a connection. And, and a lot of clients ask like, I want to speak up and I want to, you know, connect with, you know, speak my truth to this person. And I always say you have to get honest with yourself first and get clear with yourself first. Do the shadow work on yourself. Then you'll be clear on how to express yourself. Like, I need knew I was the one who was distant, so I knew I was bringing that into the conversation versus getting a conversation of, you're wrong, you did this wrong, and I don't. I want you to change. You know, it's like being able to be vulnerable with your own self and being able to share that with others and be honest. And it really can completely change your life and, and the people around you and the people you love. And we've seen so many of our clients say they had difficult relationship with a parent and it's changed, you know, their relationship. It's almost like overnight they're like they, they're not the same way anymore. They're not as critical and all those things.
- [25:18]
C
Yeah. So we can start to see this ego defense mechanism, how important it would be to understand and, and to retrieve the projections. Especially in relationships. Right. Not only romantic relationships, but also all kinds of relationships. Like, you know, your example of your relationship with your father, family relationships, friends, friends and, and colleagues in at work. All these relationships are subject to ego defense mechanisms, especially projection.
- [26:02]
B
So before we end, I thought I'd give a really quick tip on how to work with projection to just to get started the working with the shadow. There is a process. We always recommend having a coach to go through with shadow work because it's hard to do on your own. Your ego's always defending, so it's going to trip you up every time and give you these insights and you think you're done, but that's not it. But here's something to think about when you're. If someone's irritating you or someone in your life you have a difficult relationship with and it irritates you or it gets you angry or makes you sad, frustrated, whatever emotion you have, just close your eyes, send some time sitting with that feeling, and just get curious about, why is this bugging me? Why do I need that person to love me? Why do I, you know, need that person to be different? And really examine that, what your mind is doing and, and you're doing it from this witness standpoint and watching your mind and your emotions kind of act like. It's almost like watching your ego in action under an X ray and you're just getting curious about it. And usually you'll get an insight by doing that. You just be like, oh, wait, you know, you're hearing your mind fill in the narrative around the situation that may or may not be true. And that's where you can start being objective. And you start looking at, maybe there's something here that I need to look at too.
- [27:27]
C
Yeah, that's. That's powerful. And so next time we're going to go deeper into how does projection play out in relationships? And we're going to talk a little bit about the masculine and feminine energy going deeper into the psyche, which are really important aspects of understanding relationships.
- [27:52]
B
And in Jungian terms, it's anima and animus that we'll be talking about. So, great episode next. So stay tuned. Make sure you subscribe. Click the button on the video. If you're watching us on YouTube or if you're listening to us on one of the podcast services, please subscribe so you can join us every week and also helps us and the algorithms make show our show to more people and they can get this information.
- [28:18]
C
See you next time.
- [28:19]
B
All right, take care.
- [28:21]
A
Thank you for joining us. And don't forget to subscribe to Creative Minds Soul Sessions and join us next week as we explore another deep topic.
- [28:30]
B
Where you can consciously create your life.
- [28:32]
A
With Creative Mind Soul Sessions. See you next time.