← Jung On Purpose Podcast by CreativeMind
Jung On Purpose Podcast by CreativeMind
Why Ethical Coaching Matters More Than Ever: Big Five Personality Traits
00:23:41
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- [00:01]
Narrator
Welcome to Creative Mind Soul Sessions with Deborah Burndt Maldonado and Dr. Rob Maldonado, founders of Creative Mind. Explore personal growth with us through Jungian psychology, Eastern spirituality and social neuroscience in a deep but practical way.
- [00:18]
Deborah Maldonado
Let's begin.
- [00:24]
Narrator
Hello.
- [00:24]
Deborah Maldonado
Welcome to another session of Soul Sessions. I'm Deborah Maldonado.
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Dr. Rob Maldonado
I'm Dr. Rob.
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Deborah Maldonado
And we are with Creative Mind. And we are excited to continue our series on the personality types for the Big Five. We're talking about and how they apply in personality theory and how we can use them as coaches and being coached, being effective. And today we're talking about conscientiousness, when. Which is the second part of the Big Five. And before we begin, I do want to remind you to subscribe to our channel, subscribe to our podcast. We love to have you come back every week and get this great continent.
- [01:05]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah. So last time we talked about openness in relationship to the Big Five and to what makes a great depth Jungian coach and openness, you know, we talk about curiosity, creativity and symbolic thinking and we saw that it's a spectrum. You know, no one is perfect in that regard. But having that openness to experience really helps us as coaches. The next one, conscientiousness, it's almost the opposite. Conscientiousness is the ability to be structured in our approach to coaching and ethical, of course.
- [01:43]
Deborah Maldonado
And the main parts are accountability, boundaries and holding the container for. As a, as a coach, for the client and being ethical.
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Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah.
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Deborah Maldonado
I think conscientiousness, we can, it can lean in, in the more. The more rigid place is perfectionism where we're so conscientious that we don't even ask questions, you know, like, almost like.
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Narrator
I can't ask that question.
- [02:11]
Deborah Maldonado
And we're so rigid with our own of rules that there's no space really for any creativity. And, and so that over conscientiousness and then the tendency to beat ourselves up and be, you know, overly like, judgmental of ourselves and hard on ourselves.
- [02:29]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah. So like with all these constructs, it's finding that middle point, right. Finding the balance so that we're not overly conscientious, but we have enough structure and enough discipline to set boundaries to create safe spaces for our clients that they feel like, yeah, this person is mature enough, insecure enough in themselves to provide that for, for me, this, this space where I can do my transformation.
- [03:01]
Deborah Maldonado
And so when we think about the Persona, the Persona is a mask. It's not really your natural state. And some people pretend to be conscientious or, or put on the, The. The mask of conscientiousness. Like I'm perfect and I'm authentic or I'm. I'm have authority and I know what I'm talking about. And almost like overly, you can't see the cracks in the veneer where you're losing your authenticity. You're trying to be so perfect and so polished that you really. It's hard to connect.
- [03:35]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah. It's finding that balance between conscientiousness with flexibility to meet the client's unique needs while adhering to ethical standards. Because ethical standards kind of give us the. The guardrails. Like, where is. Where am I going too far? Or what's the limit of what I can do in. In a coaching situation? So it gives us those guard rails so that it creates that sense of safety for the client. Right. If. If we say anything goes and let's just, you know, open up the session to anything that comes up. Without any understanding of ethics and proper etiquette for coaching or like limits of your own training. Yes. Then we're kind of putting the, the client in a difficult position because they'll feel that uncertainty. They'll feel that no sense of boundary. No sen. Professionalism, even. Professionalism. Methodology.
- [04:38]
Deborah Maldonado
Well, you and I both come from a therapy background. I was a hypnotherapist and I had to abide by strict rules as far as, like, boundaries with clients. What was ethical, what was not ethical. Highly trained. You know, as a therapist too. Like, the standards are even higher with licensure. But coaching is an unregulated field. So many people call themselves coaches and don't have training as a coach. They're not trained in ethics. They just put. They get trained, a lot of them in a technique. One technique. And then they slap the word coach on I'm a coach. And, And. And it's encouraged a lot of times. And what happens is they're. They're kind of just fixing and band aiding symptoms. And there's really no structure. There's really no structure, no journey. And so many of our clients, the students that come to us, they've done a lot of personal growth. And there's so many methods out there. There's so many systems. I mean, you just. Plethora.
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Dr. Rob Maldonado
There's shortages. I would say there's a lot of techniques.
- [05:40]
Deborah Maldonado
Okay. There's a lot of techniques. Yeah. So you get lost in it. And so they said. Then we started doing the training with us. And the young and individuation process gives it a structure they said, oh, now I know how everything fits together. But if you don't have that structure, you don't have a journey you're taking a client on. You can quickly fall into. And when I was a hypnotherapist and before I did the Jungian work, this is exactly what I did. It was all about what showed up for the client and let me just fix the symptom right now. And that was the way my training was. It was just symptom relief. And I was like, where am I taking this person? And that's when I, when I met you, I was so intrigued by Jungian individuation. I was like, now there's. This makes a lot of sense. So having that structure is really important. Not to be too rigid, where you're so afraid to take any, like, you know, exploratory things with the client, but you also don't want to be so lax that the client gets lost with you.
- [06:40]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah, right. I mean, in our program, we always emphasize theory because theory provides that structure, whereas it gives us a roadmap of the psyche, a way to proceed, essentially. And we're always telling our students, think of theory as a map that helps you guide your client through a difficult process. If you're saying, well, I. All I wanted to learn is these techniques, and then I can apply the techniques to help kind of the. To help the client in the immediate situation, yeah, of course we need techniques. But if you're only applying techniques in the moment and helping your client just in this session, you're not really helping them move forward in their whole process.
- [07:34]
Deborah Maldonado
And this is a little pet peeve of mine is people that offer single sessions, one session at a time, it really hurts the client, but it also hurts the coach because they're not going to be able to be financially successful if they're just doing one off sessions with people. Coaching is a process. And so we always encourage at least three months for someone to be in coaching. It's not like I'm going to go get a massage this week and I'm going to feel better or get like, you know, some kind of tapping technique or whatever and feel like that immediate relief. This coaching is a process. And each session doesn't have to be this huge transformation they kind of layer on each other. Each session helps support the next session. And it's, it's a journey you're taking a client on. But if you're only trained in a technique, you're not trained in a system. You will feel as though the Clients are always coming with their problems and you're fixing them, but they're not really getting any traction. And that's how I felt in personal, A lot of the personal self help I did, it was more like fixing the immediate symptom, but. And I wasn't really going anywhere, I was going in circles. And so it's really important to have that structure. But although ethics, I think that's really important for coaches. Make sure you're acting within the boundaries of your training. So it hurts every coach when one coach is acting outside of it because it, it makes the coaching industry, you know, tears it down and it takes, makes it less infected.
- [09:05]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah. So the question we're kind of discussing is how does conscientiousness help create a reliable space for transformation? And this is precisely the idea that the, the model of the psyche, the theory that Jung gives us, and in particular the individuation process is really clear. It's, it's, it's a theoretical structure that we can apply not only to the immediate situation, but to the, the long term trajectory of the client as they go through a transformational process. So it takes them through steps, right. It begins with understanding the Persona and the shadow and moves them into understanding archetypal structures of the collective unconscious and how to create those and then movement towards the higher self. So it guides the individual through a longer procession of transformation instead of just applying kind of band aid techniques here and there that help them in the, in the moment, but don't really affect change.
- [10:19]
Deborah Maldonado
And when I started working with a coach early on, I was thinking, this is nice because I booked a year with the coach. I, it was like a year program. I couldn't, it wasn't like a session here. And I said, wow, I want to work with people long term. I want to see them evolve. I don't want to just see them for a couple sessions and then they disappear. And I feel like, well, I help them with this one little area of their life. Maybe, you know, losing some weight or quitting smoking, that's what I did a lot and, or getting over a breakup. I want to see someone actually evolve and become who they're meant to be. And those were my favorite clients. And that's why I shifted to coaching, because coaching gives us that opportunity to help a client long term. So it feels that it's a longer process, but it's longer lasting results when you do that. And to be conscientious of where the client is in their journey and also where to push them where not to push them and be very conscientious and, and, and, and make sure the client is taken care of.
- [11:23]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah. And one of those of course, is accountability. Accountability means that as coaches we're accountable for providing what the client needs in the individuation process. So can we deliver that? Hell yeah. We can deliver a solid theory that can help the client move through their personality dimensions and transformation in a structured way that provides the. Those guard rails. Right. And those kind of objective goals. In other words, we're not just kind of throwing spaghetti at the wall and to see what sticks. We have specific goals in doing specific things like active imagination, dream interpretation. Those things are essentially giving us information about or messages that are coming from the unconscious mind that will guide the client through their process.
- [12:28]
Narrator
Are you looking for a satisfying career as a life coach? If you are seeking a deeper path of training and growth, Creative Mind University offers an ICF accredited life coach training program that goes beyond surface positive thinking and into a powerful process of real transformation. You can start your new career as a certified life coach trained in a unique methodology based on Jungian theory, Eastern spirituality and social neuroscience. Get the tools to become your true self, change your life and the lives of others. Visit creativemindlife.com click on apply and speak with one of our team members today to discuss your future and possibilities of becoming a certified Life coach. That's creativemindlife.com.
- [13:24]
Deborah Maldonado
And I think in the, in the beginning the journey is really about like the clients come to us with a real life problem, whether it's relationships, whether it's work, whether it's changing careers, looking for my purpose, health issues, you know, needing to, you know, be better balanced with their stress or whatever it is that's going on with them physiologically and. But the thing is, in our experience, they, they work with you for about six months and they stay because now the journey becomes a different goal for them. Initially it's a goal of solving an ordinary problem, but the second stage of their work with you is about really that deeper journey and self discovery that becomes so much more enriching than just the little outer result they came there for. Maybe it's the ideal partner they finally meet or they finally get clarity on their purpose and their career, but it becomes this deep, rich experience that they really love to continue on and it becomes less externally driven and more internally driven, don't you think?
- [14:30]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Absolutely.
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Deborah Maldonado
But if you don't have a model, how do you get someone to that place where it's really a spiritual evolution that they're Going for. Right. If you don't have the structure for.
- [14:41]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
That, how would you say boundaries play into coaching? And why is it important for us to teach, Teach our students proper boundary setting?
- [14:52]
Deborah Maldonado
And is it because of the ethics, too, like keeping boundaries with yourself, with what's, you know, Big question for coaches. Can I coach my partner? Can I coach my friends? How does that work? Lots of times. Most of the time, if you coach someone you know and you have another relationship with, they call it dual relationship. It's not effective because they see you as the old personality. They don't see you as an authority. And so even though you want to help them, it doesn't really. It doesn't. It's not as effective for them. Maybe you can help them a little bit, but it's always better to work with people that aren't related to you, that aren't friends with you, that type of thing. That's why those ethical considerations are in place. Because then it blurs the line because you're coaching your friend and then you're out, you know, for happy hour. And then your friend is like, asking you questions and you're coaching them. And there's no boundary of, no, I'm not acting as a coach right now. So I think that's one of the things. And also boundaries with our time and that people like emailing you every day or on the weekends and thinking the client can take over your life if you don't set proper boundaries. And so that's where the structure is. And I think one of the things we learned early on is to have us have those, you know, guidelines that you follow so you're not making the decision on the fly with every client. Like a system. What do you. I forgot the word. You call it policy. Like we have. You have your own policy. You write it down and you say, you know, I'm not going to answer emails on the weekend. You communicate that to the client. You have it in the contract, only one email a week. You're not going to be there 24, seven for them. And then the limits on the sessions also, you know, boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. And people respect that. Because if you don't keep boundaries as a coach, as an authority figure, your clients are not going to be able to keep boundaries with people in their life.
- [16:46]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
That's true. Because we, as the coach are a type of role model for our clients. And so we don't set proper boundaries. We're not communicating how to set proper boundaries or how they can set proper boundaries in their relationships. Holding the Container. This is a kind of an abstract concept, right? Holding. How are we the container as a coach?
- [17:12]
Deborah Maldonado
Well, this session itself is basically a container from start to finish. It should have a certain start quality and a certain end quality. And so that in that space, it's very special space, sacred space for you and that client. One time I had a coach that actually was at a meeting and was on the phone and was distracted, and I was like, this doesn't feel like a session. It didn't feel like a container. You're in your car. You're not coaching people in your car. You have to be. Be present fully for that person. You can't have your baby crying in the corner or your kids running in all the time. Have that safe place and honor the client that way, and they should also honor that space for you. So if they're calling you from a cafe and they're saying, hey, you know, I'm sorry it's so noisy in here, it's like, can we reschedule? When you're in a place that's where you can focus.
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Dr. Rob Maldonado
Right?
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Deborah Maldonado
Very important.
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Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah, yeah. It is kind of a, like you say, a sacred activity, right. Or space that we're creating in. In this coaching experience.
- [18:21]
Deborah Maldonado
So it's. It feels like a little rule. Rule setting. But like, you were a child psychologist for many, many years. Still am.
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Dr. Rob Maldonado
I.
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Deborah Maldonado
But you, you told me that children actually feel more secure when there's boundaries than when they're not. And so as adults, we still carry that, right? We still carry that feeling. If I know and I can predict and it feels consistent, I can feel safer in this space.
- [18:49]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yeah, absolutely. Even children can pick up when you're not providing that safe container for them. It makes them anxious. So the more. The more upfront you can be with your limitations, right, with the boundaries, the more secure the person feels. And it's the same with your clients. They'll feel more secure if they know the boundaries, where they are, and what are the consequences if they overstep those boundaries Sometimes.
- [19:24]
Deborah Maldonado
I know in the beginning, and we'll go into this with the pleasing we agreeableness is that we change the rules all the time in the beginning, sometimes because we want to be nice, we'll give them an exception. I'll make an exception for you. And then all of a sudden, you're making exceptions for everyone. And then this other client finds out you made the exception for them. And it's not fair. It's like an unfairness that happens. So you have to treat everyone the same. You have to have a policy. And then in those, the way you conduct your sessions is holding that container. When you are even emailing them. If that's part of the coaching, you're holding the container in that moment. You're, you're being present with that answer or reading it with, you know, you're not watching Netflix while you're answering emails for your clients. You're respecting that container and I promise you, you have more success. So what would be like the shadow of consciousness, conscientiousness? What would be like a shadow quality of, of that?
- [20:22]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
I think it would be being too rigid where we see it with some of the scripts and techniques that we teach our students. Sometimes they think I have to get in the technique, just the question way I learned it and the way it's written down. And they forget about the client's need. Right. That there's a person here that is unique and individual and have. They have their, their particular needs. And sometimes the script will not address those needs. And that's the time they just throw it out. You don't need it.
- [20:58]
Deborah Maldonado
Well, when I learned doing consults for, to get clients, that was one of the biggest pet peeves I had. Another pet peeve I had was about like following a script. And you had to be, you know, these are the answers to everything. And you're not even with the person. You're just throwing out some, some coined response that you or can response that you were taught to say. And instead of just being like again, conscientious, being present, listening to the person and really knowing if they're right fit for you or not, like that's really. When we, you know, are enrolling clients in our services, we're not being pushy. We're seeing if it's a fit. It should be very relaxing. It should be, do I enjoy working? Would I enjoy working with this person? Would they enjoy working with me? Do we have the same kind of experience and goals that I can offer? Not a hard sell. And your life is going to be over if you don't sign on the dotted line today. That type of pressure coaching and sales. So definitely that rigidness that I gotta sell to every person that gets on the phone with me. Being more conscientious but less rigid and being more aware and accountable for yourself and what you really want to have.
- [22:11]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Yep. Jung's approach was simply this, right, forget everything you learned about theory and, and technique and simply be present with this person. One soul talking to another soul.
- [22:27]
Deborah Maldonado
But you do need the, the training. So then you can. You have to learn the rules. So you can learn to flex the rules.
- [22:33]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
You can.
- [22:34]
Deborah Maldonado
But if you don't have the rules at all, you're really just. It's like the blind leading the blind. You're trying to coach someone and you don't know anything. You know, you don't know where to start, where to begin.
- [22:45]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
That's right. Yeah. So next time we'll be talking about. And we'll be on Jungian ground.
- [22:51]
Deborah Maldonado
Oh, yeah.
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Dr. Rob Maldonado
Extroversion.
- [22:52]
Deborah Maldonado
Yes. How to be connected to others, how to put yourself out there and how both introversion and extroversion are. Are really powerful and how we can choose who we become instead of just think we're just that way.
- [23:08]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
Right.
- [23:09]
Deborah Maldonado
So take care, everyone. We'll see you next week on another Soul Sessions.
- [23:13]
Dr. Rob Maldonado
See you soon.
- [23:14]
Deborah Maldonado
See you soon.
- [23:16]
Narrator
Thank you for joining us. And don't forget to subscribe to CreativeMind's Soul Sessions and join us next week as we explore another deep topic where you can consciously create your life with creative mind. Soul Sessions. See you next time.