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- [00:00]
A
Hello Culties. Sorry, I was gonna try to do this promo in a British accent and I've just now decided against it. Culties, it is your host Amanda Montel and despite my cold feet about the accent, I am so excited to announce that Sounds Like a Cult Live is coming to London. A live version of this very podcast is coming to London's gorgeous bush hall on November 24th. It's going to be a night of culty conversations, of juicy special guests, unhinged PowerPoint slides, and yes, a live podcast recording that you get to be a part of. There's also going to be a book signing, a meet and greet, an unfiltered Q and A, and I'll be doing a special live reading from my book Cultish the Language of Fanaticism. Tickets are on sale now either@sampleslikeacult.com or amandamontel.com events. Grab yours before they disappear and come join the little Sounds Like a Cult Cult across the Pond. Hope you follow me in London on November 24th. Call me basic, but I love sweater season and for pieces that feel as good as they look, check out Quince. By partnering directly with ethical top tier manufacturers, Quince is able to cut out the middleman, meaning they can deliver luxury quality pieces straight to you at a lower cost. I already have a sweater or two from last year and ooh heaven. Keep it classic and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from quince. Go to quince.com sl a c for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C e.com/ to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com// 2025 has been my year of getting my mental health situated exercise hanging with friends. And it means Headspace. Headspace is the app that helps me and 100 million people with their mental health and well being with guided meditations, mindfulness, pract, breathing and calming exercises and so much more. Feel good and mean it when you say it. For a limited time get headspace free for 60 days go to headspace.com soundslike that's H-E-A-S-P-A C E.com soundslike to unlock all of headspace free for 60 days headspace.com soundslike the views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable fact. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only.
- [02:30]
B
I remember them kind of repeating the fact that now that we're here, we're not just co workers, we're a family. Oh God. They brought up a priest during their little speeches to just kind of thank everybody for coming. And the priest continued to bless the Chick Fil? A and everyone put their heads down in prayer, but I kind of kept mine up out of surprise. That was the first moment I was like, oh, this is a little bit more serious serious than I thought.
- [02:58]
A
This is Sounds like a Cult. A show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm your host Amanda Montel, author of the books Cultish and the Age of Magical Overthinking. Every week on this show we discuss a different zeitgeisty group that puts the cults in culture from Labubu to Anti Vaxxers to try and answer the big.
- [03:18]
B
Question, this group sounds like a cult. But is it really?
- [03:28]
A
And if so, which of our three cult categories does it fall into? A live your life, a watch your back or a get the out. After all, cultish vibes, including us versus them divisions and freaky rituals and exploitation can be found everywhere these days. Not just on fringy new age compounds, but sometimes in your music fandom, in your fitness studios, even in your favorite local fast food chicken restaurant. This show is meant to analyze and poke a little bit of fun at the ways in which humans attempt to find meaning and community and belonging in the 21st century and help distinguish the harmless everyday cults from the low key destructive ones. Today we are talking about the Cult of Chick Fil? A. The controversial cult followed Christian based restaurant chain whose worshipful devotees will not only wait 45 delirious minutes for their blessed chicken sandwich, but also it's the only fast food establishment I can think of that has each of its restaurants literally blessed by a pastor upon opening. Chick? Fil? A, allegedly home to America's most homophobic waffle fries, has turned serving chicken into a mission to serve the Lord and has built a fiercely loyal customer base that treats Chick Fil? A like an identity, a symbol and a ritual. We're talking about a company that closes every single Sunday in the name of God, yet still manages to outsell McDonald's, still Starbucks and Subway in per location revenue. Did you know that?
- [04:51]
B
I didn't know.
- [04:54]
A
A company where the phrase my pleasure isn't just customer service, it's a control tactic and one where franchise owners are chosen not for their financial status but for their values. In 2007, Forbes magazine labeled Chick Fil? A a cult. Later, Business Insider Dubbed it the most beloved fast food brand in America. So which is it? Simply a cult followed chicken shop or something more like an actual cult? That is what we're here to find out today. And to do so, I am joined by the person who inspired this entire episode today. She is a former Chick Fil A employee. In fact, her last day was yesterday. At the time of this recording, she spent her entire summer working there, taking notes so that she could spill the culty sauce on all of us today. Our guest also happens to be my 19 year old sister in law, Karis, who has been living with me and my husband Casey for the summer, working at Chick Fil A to my dismay. For the record, I have never eaten at a Chick Fil A restaurant in my life. Karis is also a wonderful aunt to my three pets, a beautiful singer, an overall excellent hang, and a rising sophomore at Syracuse University studying music business. Carys, welcome to Sounds Like a Cult.
- [05:59]
B
Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.
- [06:02]
A
Okay, so I'm gonna alternate asking you my own questions. And then we also solicited some questions from our Sounds Like a Cult listeners on ig. Follow us at Sounds Like a Cult pod. But we're gonna start with some opening questions from me about this chicken cult. First of all, can you tell us about your general relationship to Chick Fil A? Like, what was your relationship before you started working there? And then why did you want to seek employment at Chick Fil A? Ultimately?
- [06:27]
B
Okay, so I've been addicted to Chick Fil A for probably the past three years, but especially last summer. I probably got it at least once or twice a week. It was pretty bad. Not my best choices in terms of my health, but I don't know, I just, I, you know, love the taste of it, love the food. It was always something to do with my friends.
- [06:47]
A
Did it have a cool factor? Because I feel like some fast food restaurants, like In N Out, have kind of like a cult followed vibe.
- [06:54]
B
For sure, yeah. I mean, always lines out the door in the drive through like you expected it when you went there, especially during dinner or lunchtime, just the drive thru would be packed and people would wait in those lines for 15 minutes just to get their chicken. Including me. But yeah, this summer I needed a job. There was a new Chick Fil A opening by your house. And so I applied there, why not? And they hired me right on spot. So it was kind of a hard offer not to take up.
- [07:21]
A
How did it feel to be immediately accepted by the leaders of Chick Fil.
- [07:25]
B
A. I was surprised that it happened that quickly, but also kind of excited because it was kind of a joke last summer that I could have saved so much money by just working there instead of buying it twice a week.
- [07:36]
A
Because you did eat it as you were working there, like, every single shift.
- [07:39]
B
Oh, yeah. Well, this summer, I mean, you know, I tried my best to be healthy.
- [07:43]
A
And so I like elephant in the room. Or I guess like oversized chicken in the room. Chick Fil A is controversial sociopolitically. Did that, like, factor into your decision to apply there or were you just like, eh?
- [07:56]
B
I mean, I feel like at this point, it's kind of become a joke almost in the background. Like, I have gay best friends who go and eat there. And it's like kind of like you're reclaiming it. I feel like, oh, okay. That's what I felt like. People just love the taste of it so much that they have gotten over it.
- [08:14]
A
You're like, why should I have to sacrifice good chicken just because I'm gay?
- [08:18]
B
Yeah. I remember my cousin. There was a whole movement to boycott Chick Fil A. My parents and my whole family were in the moves of boycotting it. And then all of a sudden, we see my gay cousin going to Chick Fil A and we're like, why? Why are you going there? Aren't we boycotting? And he said, I just. I love it. Why not?
- [08:34]
A
I have known a lot of queers.
- [08:35]
B
Who go to Chick Fil A. Yeah.
- [08:37]
A
And I know some who would never step foot in it. So there's a range of relationships to this cult followed and sometimes too cultish for comfort brand. So in your opinion, why do you think Chick Fil A has the reputation of from an outsider's perspective, like, are there any details about the brand that you think make non employees, including haters and loving customers, regard it as cult?
- [09:01]
B
Like, I think the two biggest ones are probably the religion factor. Them being a religious company and integrating that into their business hours. And also the behavior of the employees, like them being overly nice, overly attentive. And of course, the word my pleasure, which we can talk more about later.
- [09:21]
A
But we certainly will. Okay, so first, just to lay some groundwork, Chick Fil A was founded in 1946 by S. Truitt Cathy. Do you learn this history when you go to work there?
- [09:36]
B
No, but this is new to me, so I'm excited.
- [09:39]
A
Oh, good. Okay. Originally, the restaurant was called Dwarf Grill, and it was located in Hapeville, Georgia. Kathy put the finishing touch on his original Chicken Sandwich in 1964, eventually rebranding as Chick Fil A in 1967 and growing into more than 2,700 locations nationwide. The company's mission, as you know, is explicitly faith based. Their website says their mission is to, quote, glorify God by being a faithful steward of all that is entrusted to us and to have a positive influence on all who come into contact with Chick Fil A. The juxtaposition of these, like, gravely serious godly values and like this stupid ass chicken restaurant with these dumb cow billboards is like a recipe for parody to me. So this episode is going to look into a few specific topics. A, the notoriously strict hospitality standards for employees. Your pleasure, My pleasure. Let's go. B, the customer fanaticism surrounding this freaking chicken. As you noted, the long lines, what's the deal? And then of course, the brand controversies that are connected to Chick Fil A's blending of faith and business. This distinctly American conflation of cult fave branding with right wing values and conformist corporate culture. And of course, thankfully, we have an insider's perspective to tell us how things really are in her opinion. Allegedly. So Chick Fil A status as a cult from the business side, as we've mentioned, it has always been staunchly and explicitly a Christian business whose culture reflects that foundation. Question for you as employee. What was the first cult y thing you noticed after getting the job?
- [11:18]
B
So this was a big shocker to me. The first day after our trip training, they had an orientation day and it was just families and friends of the owner came in to kind of just celebrate the opening. It was a grand opening, brand new location. They had like platters of chicken nuggets.
- [11:36]
A
Or whatever nugs that they're fondly called.
- [11:39]
B
And it wasn't required to go, but I thought, why not go just to, you know, see some faces, make some friends. Because I'm new here. And I of course grabbed a plate of chicken. I was very excited because it was free. And they brought up a priest during their little speeches to just kind of thank everybody for coming. And the priest continued to bless the Chick Fil A and everyone put their heads down in prayer. But I kind of kept mine up out of surprise because it was a shock to me. I was just like.
- [12:09]
A
Because you're not religious.
- [12:11]
B
I am not religious.
- [12:12]
A
For the record. Like, this is not a religious house. I mean, I grew up like Jewish atheist.
- [12:16]
B
You didn't.
- [12:17]
A
But you're not a Christian is the point.
- [12:18]
B
No, I'm not a Christian. I think I saw one or two other people Keep their heads up a little bit. I'm not sure if me and them were on the same page, but anyway, my first red flag, I guess, was when I heard the word sin. And that kind of sent a little bit of an eerie feeling down my body just because I can't remember the exact words of it. But it was something about joining together with the community of food to renounce one's sins. And I know community and food are a big thing in Christianity and that kind of.
- [12:48]
A
And just like, togetherness, religion and culture all around the world.
- [12:51]
B
Yeah, of course. But, like, just kind of forwardly saying that this fast food restaurant is going to enlighten the customers that come in with the community of their food was just foreboding.
- [13:03]
A
Yeah, it's like, ominous.
- [13:04]
B
Yeah. I don't know.
- [13:05]
A
Oh, my God.
- [13:06]
B
It just felt kind of intense in the moment.
- [13:09]
A
I remember you coming home and telling us about the pastor blessing the Chick Fil A. And like, at first I thought you were joking because you delivered that news so deadpan because you thought it was gonna be like a getting to know you mixer.
- [13:22]
B
Right, Right. I thought I was gonna, you know, get to other co workers. And that happened. And immediately when it was going on, I was like, oh, my God. I ran home and told you guys I left early actually. Because. You know.
- [13:33]
A
Because you were afraid they were going to clock you as a sinner.
- [13:36]
B
No, it's just. Well, I took some more free Chick Fil A home for Casey, of course.
- [13:41]
A
So how did you feel? You were like, okay, I need to just kind of, like, set my personal feelings aside and just kind of be like a mole and make my money, get my bag knowing I'm going to be out at the end of the summer.
- [13:52]
B
Exactly. Honestly. Exactly. Because obviously, being an outsider, I knew the culture of Chick fil A a little bit. I knew it was going to be a little bit of a change for me to put on that bright smiley face every day. But that was the first moment I was like, oh, this is more.
- [14:07]
A
This is serious.
- [14:08]
B
This is a little bit more serious than I thought.
- [14:10]
A
Well, because it's absurd. It's so anachronistic, you know, Like, Chick Fil A feels almost like a hip brand and we know this Christian lore, but to actually see a dead ass pastor blessing a Chick Fil A.
- [14:24]
B
Right.
- [14:25]
A
It probably felt like a little surreal.
- [14:27]
B
It was a little surreal.
- [14:28]
A
Pr.
- [14:28]
B
Sure. Again, I was one of the only ones that kept my head up. And it wasn't till later till I learned that every single Chick Fil A is blessed in the moment. I thought it was just ours. And I was like, wow, this is new. But it's a thing, I think too.
- [14:41]
A
Like, it's worth noting that I remember you saying you were shook and, like, excited by how much money you were going to make because the hourly rate is pretty good.
- [14:50]
B
Yeah. I mean, especially in California, it was 20, 50 an hour for fast food workers. So I think that was also an incentive for me to take the job. Even though it's controversial a bit. And spe of the controversial part, it was kind of always a little bit not scary, but it was a little shameful to tell other people I was just meeting that I work at Chick Fil? A because you never know their response. So I kind of just always played it off. It's like, oh, you know, they pay well. I'm doing it for the money. I'm a broke college student.
- [15:17]
A
But that is literally why.
- [15:19]
B
I mean, it literally is why.
- [15:20]
A
But no one put a gun to your head and said, you have to work with Chick Fil?
- [15:23]
B
A.
- [15:23]
A
No, I. You also like the chicken.
- [15:25]
B
I also like the chicken. I like the discount. And honestly, it was fun. I had a lot of fun moments.
- [15:30]
A
Yeah, we'll get into the culture. But I, I mean, that is an underrated reason why people join cults. I think the stereotype is that you join a cult, from the more light hearted ones that we discuss on the show, like, I don't know, Trader Joe's or Ikea, to a more hardcore one, like some of the more abusive yoga cults or more spiritual cults or I guess this kind of does count as that. But the stereotype is that you join because you're desperate or you're really gullible or you're super lost and you're looking for this, like, transcendent meaning. But I actually think that like, like sometimes people show up and end up staying much longer than you stayed in a culty job, like a culty corporate job, for example. That really gets extreme because they just need a job. Like, they just need the money sometimes. It's not that deep at first, but it gets deep later. So I want to talk a little bit about how the Chick Fil A culture reflects its Christian foundation. According to a Business Insider piece by Kate Taylor Truett, Cathy, the founder, built the brand on, quote, biblical principles and ran the company like a ministry. Stores are closed every Sunday, even though that costs an estimated $1 billion in lost annual sales. Kathy said it's not negotiable, though. It's for faith and family. And I actually think beyond that Christian day of rest or whatever, it creates an exclusivity where people want to, like, rush and, like, go on a Saturday when it's closed on Sunday. I've seen Casey, who will eat there periodically. Like, oh, no. Like, it's closed on Sundays. And it almost makes you, like, love the brand even more.
- [17:01]
B
That's a very relatable experience. I think everyone who enjoys eating at Chick Fil A has the same exact experience. That Sunday is the one day you want to go and sometimes you forget, like, oh, you know, we could get Chick Fil A. No, it's Sunday.
- [17:14]
A
It makes it even more precious, which I think was either, like, an intentional or unintentional cult marketing tactic. This is also interesting. The company handpicks franchisees through an application process with a 0.4 acceptance rate, which is, like, so much lower than, I don't know, getting enough fucking Harvard.
- [17:31]
B
I didn't know. I didn't know I was that special.
- [17:33]
A
Yeah, that's according to Business Insider.
- [17:35]
B
It's a little scary. That's. That they saw me as the perfect fit for.
- [17:39]
A
Well, okay. They don't. Hiring people to work the floor is not a point for us.
- [17:43]
B
Okay.
- [17:44]
A
Okay. It's franchisees. You know, people that actually open a franchise. It's not that easy.
- [17:48]
B
I knew it was really competitive.
- [17:49]
A
Yeah, it's really competitive. And specifically, they are looking for values, alignment over network. Do you know who the owner of your specific Chick Fil A franchise was?
- [17:59]
B
Yeah, he would pop in once in a while, and obviously during that whole orientation ceremony thing, he would.
- [18:05]
A
He was there. What was he like?
- [18:06]
B
He was nice. I remember them kind of repeating the fact that now that we're here, we're not just co workers. We're a family.
- [18:13]
A
Oh, God. Red flag.
- [18:15]
B
Yeah, he was nice. I mean, I don't have anything bad.
- [18:18]
A
To say about him, but did he seem like a family man?
- [18:20]
B
Definitely a family man. He shared pictures of his family, talked about his history with Chick Fil A and whatnot, and how much he loved it. And, you know, they did kind of go into their values about Chick Fil A a bit, for sure.
- [18:37]
A
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- [20:51]
B
All.
- [20:51]
A
Feel good and mean it when you say it. For a limited time get headspace free for 60 days. Go to headspace.com soundslike that's H E a D S P A A C E.com sounds like to unlock all of Headspace free for 60 days. Headspace.com sounds like okay, so historically there have actually been consequences for failing to conform to those Christian family values. The Forbes piece that I referenced earlier called the Cult of Chick Fil A reported that the company has been sued at least 12 times since 1988 on charges of employment discrimination. That's according to records in the US District Court courts. This Forbes piece says, quote Aziz Latif a former Chick Fil a restaurant manager in Houston, sued the company in 2002 after he, a Muslim, says that he was fired a day after he didn't participate in a group prayer to Jesus Christ at a company training program in 2000. That suit was settled on undisclosed terms. So I know that from what I've read that Chick Fil A's super staunch Christian culture has like softened a little bit. And some of like, like the problematic donations that they've made against anti queer organizations have been softened, allegedly. But this is like in their past, which is interesting. So today, obviously religious overtones are still common in team meetings and events. The pastor story, the blessing. I need you to tell though, the story of the haunting that existed in the building.
- [22:24]
B
So. So where my Chick Fil a is now used to be a different restaurant. And it was a whole thing that the old restaurant was haunted and had a ghost in it. And somebody came into our Chick Fil A. I wasn't there, but I overheard my co workers talking about it, that someone came in, kind of bringing up the fact that this place is haunted and whatnot. And then one of my co workers responded with, well, it's okay because we bless this Chick Fil A. Every Chick Fil A gets blessed. The fact that it being blessed overrode the ghost via the ghost.
- [22:56]
A
It's just like the coldiest, most hilarious, unnecessarily supernatural thing ever. That like at first someone thought that this building was haunted, but now it's fine because there's a holy Chick Fil A in it instead. Like, that's insane.
- [23:12]
B
It is really ironic, isn't it?
- [23:14]
A
It's so la. Like some, like LA witch is like there are ghosts, ghosts here. Chick Fil a comes in.
- [23:20]
B
There's like the paradox, like two different sides of religion, culture, culture, class.
- [23:25]
A
For sure, for sure. Okay, so now I want to ask some questions from our listeners. The first person wants to know how creepy Christian does it feel in their day to day.
- [23:35]
B
I would say, as we said, the Christianity aspects of like forcing Christianity on you is kind of definitely softened and if anything hidden. I would say definitely the higher up people are, the more religious ones. And I think that's why you were saying it's really competitive to begin in. Because I think the higher up you go, the more they expect that kind of religion aspect from you. It definitely was a topic brought up more casually because I think again, the higher you go up, the more you actually genuinely align with those kinds of values. But there were definitely co workers including me, that weren't religious or didn't take it as seriously, I guess in that.
- [24:15]
A
Way, could you feel that even from like the lowest level employee to floor manager and up, could you, like, feel the Chick Fil A culture getting more intense up the hierarchy?
- [24:28]
B
For sure. I think it was a little bit more subtle. It wasn't a fine line.
- [24:32]
A
Yeah.
- [24:32]
B
Because obviously everybody has their own personalities and whatnot. But I could tell the higher up they got, the more serious they took it and the more chick Fil? A kind of consumed their life. It wasn't just a job that one of us teenagers had. It was like, like, no. Chick Fil? A is kind of like one of, like, one of their priorities in their life. It's not just on the side. It's something they're a part of.
- [24:56]
A
Did you think it felt more intense than, like, other restaurant jobs you've worked in the past?
- [25:02]
B
Yeah, I mean, I've only had one other restaurant experience, I guess, and they were complete opposite. So jumping from that to this definitely was, again, a little bit of a shock. But I. I think the culture is definitely so different from working at a McDonald's or something.
- [25:19]
A
Yeah.
- [25:19]
B
I just think the expectations are really high.
- [25:21]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just so, again, like, the juxtaposition of this, like, silly chicken restaurant.
- [25:27]
B
Right.
- [25:28]
A
And Jesus, it's just, like, so funny and weird to me.
- [25:32]
B
Silly, though. It's serious.
- [25:33]
A
Yeah, no, it's serious, but that's why it's funny. Like, it's just so, I guess, ironic. Another listener wanted to know how much Christian lingo is used in the training, slash, day to day communication.
- [25:46]
B
Okay. So I kept getting in trouble, like the first one or two weeks, because I kept saying when I was on register, when I could take a new guest, I was like, I can help the next guest. And they kept tapping my shoulder and being like, it's served. You can serve the next guest. And that was the phrase I kept getting called out for. It's not how can I help you? It's how can I serve you today?
- [26:06]
A
Yeah. There was a lot of language of service and submission.
- [26:11]
B
I remember I was getting annoyed when they kept calling me out for that because I'm like, what difference does it make?
- [26:16]
A
They're so controlling.
- [26:17]
B
Yeah. I mean, especially during the first training week. Cause all of us were new. They really kind of, you know, ingrained that in your head. And I stopped saying it eventually, but when my manager was around, I kind of had to. Or else I would get in trouble.
- [26:29]
A
Yeah, totally.
- [26:29]
B
I would get called out for it.
- [26:31]
A
And then we kind of addressed this already. But another person wants clear answers. Do most of the regular employees share the company's conservative beliefs? What kind of religion does one need to work there or own a franchise? And are you alienated if you work there and you're not religious?
- [26:47]
B
I feel like if I was really open about my beliefs and what I thought about the culture there, I feel like I would get judged or I would feel like a misfit. But I just kind of put on my customer service voice. And honestly, the environment is so fast paced sometimes it was hard to kind of get to know my other employees. But I feel like if I was completely open and honest about my beliefs, it would be a little bit looked down upon.
- [27:14]
A
Yeah.
- [27:15]
B
And the only ones that were talking about religion were the Christian ones because it was like the safe space for them, I guess.
- [27:21]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a fast food job that you're like, super Christian parents would approve of.
- [27:28]
B
And that's not to say if I did practice another religion and shared about it, I would shun or fired, by all means. But in terms of like, atheist views or. I never got into that because it wasn't worth it. It wasn't worth it and it would feel kind of uncomfortable. I just know a lot of them just wouldn't agree with me, which is a space I'm not really used to being in total with. So.
- [27:49]
A
Yeah, you're like fellow music majors at school or school. Yeah, exactly. Culture shock for sure. But it sounds like, again, the farther up the hierarchy you get, the standards probably change, of course. Yeah, totally. Okay, so let's talk about how profitable this Jesus chicken really is. Chick Fil? A has tripled sales over the last decade despite having fewer locations than McDonald's or Starbucks. In 2018, the average Chick Fil? A store made 4.2 million sales annually, double McDonald's average and five times Taco Bell's. The grilled chicken sandwich took seven years to develop. The original sandwich, four years. Perfectionism in R and D is part of the culture, but Chick Fil? A invests probably most heavily in service training and technology to keep lines moving without losing the personal touch. That is like a signature of Chick Fil? A, I feel, is just that, like, machine, like quality control. Control.
- [28:43]
B
Yeah. And I think customers have a high expectation for you too. At least some. Because when you don't give a friendly smile or you're a little bit monotone or something, it could be taken as offensive or.
- [28:54]
A
No. Gen Z stares at Chick Fil?
- [28:56]
B
A. I was always afraid that if I wasn't super peppy and did exactly what I was told, that it would kind of be taken as rude or something. Yeah. From the employees, because they just expect you to be that way.
- [29:08]
A
Of course. Course. I mean, some of that isn't bad. I mean, like, being friendly.
- [29:12]
B
No, of course.
- [29:13]
A
Oh, but some customers are so rude.
- [29:16]
B
That's the difference. I feel like if I worked anywhere else, it'd be a little bit easier to defend myself. And, you know, they did take care of their workers. If there was a customer being overly rude to one of us, you know, it wasn't taken lightly. But also, you can't show your true.
- [29:31]
A
Emotions because you're there to serve.
- [29:33]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [29:34]
A
Exactly. By the way, all of those stats were according to our sources in Business Insider and Forbes. We will link them in our show notes. A listener wants to know, is the chicken really that good?
- [29:44]
B
It's pretty good.
- [29:44]
A
What's so good about, like, compare it to, I don't know, like, Popeyes or raising canes?
- [29:50]
B
I think it's definitely a preference because many people I've talked to either love it or hate it.
- [29:55]
A
People hate it.
- [29:56]
B
Well, some people just really prefer other places over Chick Fil? A. Like, they swear by Popeyes or it's kind of like a war of the chicken, almost.
- [30:03]
A
Like, oh, my God.
- [30:04]
B
Like, I really feel like people take their chicken places seriously, whether it's raising canes or Popeyes or Chick Fil? A. Feel like maybe those are the three big ones.
- [30:13]
A
I'm the capitalist chicken crusades.
- [30:15]
B
Yeah. And Chick Fil? A definitely does have a hold on many fans. But in my opinion, what makes it so good is the sauce. The Chick Fil? A sauce. If I didn't have the Chick Fil? A sauce, I honestly wouldn't think it was as good.
- [30:28]
A
Right. Goated with the sauce.
- [30:30]
B
Exactly.
- [30:31]
A
That's me flexing my Gen Z slang that Carys has taught me.
- [30:34]
B
I also think the consistency is something to point out because they really do pride themselves in the quality of their food. And if something is wrong, they will just get you a new one for free.
- [30:43]
A
And if something is wrong, they will murder the employee. I'm just kidding. I am kidding. Chick Fil? A, do not sue me. We love you. Do we love you? I don't know. That's what we're here to talk about. Okay, so let's talk about these culty again. That's with scare quotes. That's with a wink. I'm now, like, afraid of Chick Fil A lawyers. Let's talk about these notoriously culty customer service standards. At Chick Fil A. Famously, employees are required to say, my pleasure in place of your welcome. A linguistic ritual meant to reinforce that culture of service. This is a question from me. Can you talk about. Well, you have literal receipts. Can you bring out some of the documentation that you received when you were hired and speak to the language, rituals and rules that you you experienced working there and how they made you feel?
- [31:31]
B
Yes, of course. So when you get hired, they give you this red folder with just some basic hiring information, passwords and stuff to log into your account. But they also give you some papers that explain the do's and don'ts of language there. It's specifically called language of hospitality. And to have a warm welcome, you should eliminate saying hi, hey, hello, or howdy, what's up, how you doing? And you should add, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, welcome to Chick Fil A. I can serve the next guest.
- [32:06]
A
So it's like formal and old school.
- [32:08]
B
Of course. Yeah. I mean, I was told that we can't say one letter words when welcoming people in. You can't say one letter words. Like you have to say, hi, welcome to Chick Fil A. Or hi, welcome in. Not welcome.
- [32:21]
A
Oh. You have to speak in complete sentences, kind of. This is not Hollister. Did you ever go to Hollister?
- [32:27]
B
No, I did not.
- [32:28]
A
But it's before your time. But when you would go into Hollister, they're much more chill there, required to say what's up?
- [32:34]
B
The complete opposite. I should try there next just to kind of see if I can exactly.
- [32:39]
A
Dip a toe on all of these different cultures.
- [32:41]
B
And anticipating guest needs is another language column you should add. Certainly. Right away. Yes, sir. Yes, ma'. Am. It would be my pleasure. Of course. Is another one. And we can't say, yeah, all right, okay. Or no problem, we can't say, is that all? Which I said all the time, but we can't say, can I get that trash for you? We can't say, I'm sorry. You have to say my apologies. Obviously, a lot of these. I didn't follow.
- [33:07]
A
You can't say, I'm sorry?
- [33:08]
B
I don't know. I said it anyway, but.
- [33:10]
A
Well, yesterday I was like, making you a plate of food or something. I was asking if, like, I could maybe throw one of your old Chick Fil A cups away. I was like, carys, you need this. And you had your headphones on. And I was like, carys, do you need this? And you were like, what? I'm sorry. My pleasure.
- [33:29]
B
No, I've literally dreamt about Chick Fil A since working there, because I feel like an npc, and that's what I feel like working there. I kind of have to become that way. I've literally dreamt when I was working there every day, like, had long shifts, I would go to sleep, and my mind would still be running in that script. It was so.
- [33:45]
A
Oh, my God. It's like when you're bilingual and you dream in your second language.
- [33:48]
B
Yes, exactly.
- [33:49]
A
Dreaming in Chick Fil A language.
- [33:51]
B
Maybe that's just the me thing and.
- [33:52]
A
I'm crazy, but I am a Chick Fil. A robot.
- [33:55]
B
That was how I knew they were. They were getting to my ed. But. Oh, another thing is, you can't say drink. You have to say beverage.
- [34:02]
A
This is so pedantic. They just want you to extend the syllabic.
- [34:07]
B
I got in trouble for that first week, too, because I kept saying, and what could I get for your drink? And they said, it's beverage.
- [34:13]
A
They just want you to sound like Mr. Milchick in Severance.
- [34:17]
B
Yeah. Thank you for visiting us today. Enjoy your meal. Hope to see you again, as also some of the fond farewell things we should say.
- [34:25]
A
Fond farewell.
- [34:26]
B
Yes. Yeah. One of the other big parts was the Core four. That was something they went over in our, like, orientation training day.
- [34:33]
A
What's the Core 4?
- [34:34]
B
The Core 4 would be when you're greeting a customer. We have to commit to hospitality, is what it says. We have to create eye contact, share a smile, speak with a friendly tone, and always say, my pleasure.
- [34:46]
A
I love that.
- [34:47]
B
That has hearts next to it voice you're putting on.
- [34:50]
A
It's so soothing.
- [34:52]
B
And the actual actually tested us on the Core four. Every once in a while, they would randomly come up to us and say, hey, Karis, do you know your Core Four?
- [35:00]
A
Oh, wow.
- [35:01]
B
I would always forget something. And they were like, we'll come back to you later.
- [35:04]
A
It's giving Amazon's leadership principles.
- [35:07]
B
It was very kind of pressuring. Like, they would just kind of stand there and stare at you, and I would just be like. Like, I don't know.
- [35:13]
A
Well, the Core four sound like their version of the Ten Commandments, you know?
- [35:17]
B
Yeah. One of the other most common words you heard. Heard was actually the word heard when you were giving information to the back of house, which is the people in the kitchen, Like, I need another sandwich on the fly, which means I need that right away. In order to reciprocate that you received that information, you would say, heard. I never Said that because I thought that was the most annoying thing ever.
- [35:40]
A
It's like when people working on a film set say copy or.
- [35:45]
B
Yeah.
- [35:45]
A
In a fine dining restaurant where they're like, yes.
- [35:47]
B
I guess some people kind of had fun with it. Like, it's like you kind of feel like a game almost.
- [35:51]
A
I was gonn say, was learning some of this language kind of fun. Makes you feel like you belong at.
- [35:57]
B
Chick Fil a for sure. I mean, I think I tried to rebel in a way a little bit. Just not fully lose myself by not saying things like heard or obviously I had to say my pleasure. But another interesting thing is they only went over the my pleasure thing very briefly in the orientation because they assumed you already knew. Well, everybody knew. Like, everybody just kind of like that was the main thing everybody knew going into there was that, like, we were going to be asked to say my pleasure.
- [36:23]
A
Do you think some people come into Chick Fil A, like, really excited to hear them say my pleasure?
- [36:27]
B
There has been videos online where I don't think this is true, but if you said my pleasure before the Chick Fil a employee said my pleasure, you got like a free milkshake or something along the lines of that. That was a while ago. But I know people do mess with Chick fil A employees sometimes.
- [36:43]
A
So the customers, they're into it, but they're also making fun of it.
- [36:47]
B
Yes. I've actually had a couple people come up to me outside of work when I tell them I work at Chick Fil A. They're like, do they make you say my pleasure? Do they force you to say it? I wouldn't say it was forceful, but it was just so you just know you have to say it.
- [37:00]
A
Totally. I mean, force and aggression doesn't sound like the Chick Fil A way. Like, the way they enforce these things is so much more subtle and spooky than that.
- [37:10]
B
Yeah. Some people were. They just said it in a very concerned way for me. Yeah.
- [37:15]
A
Think about, like, a very, very strict Christian dad being like, I'm disappointed in you, son. Like, it's like that vibe, right?
- [37:22]
B
Yeah. I mean, there were many times where outside of work, I said my pleasure to people saying thank you. And that's again, how I knew I was starting to really get conditioned. Yes. For sure.
- [37:34]
A
It. It takes over. I mean, it is literally conditioning. Because if you're afraid of getting in trouble for not conforming.
- [37:41]
B
Yeah.
- [37:41]
A
Linguistically, then it's going to follow you.
- [37:44]
B
I know it wasn't just me because I've asked so many other people at work. Like, do they do that too? And they're like, all the time. I had friends that worked at Starbucks and they're like, I accidentally say it at my other job at Starbucks too.
- [38:02]
A
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- [38:25]
C
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- [38:58]
A
So you obviously were a rebel. You weren't trying to, like, fully immerse into the culture of chicken.
- [39:03]
B
I'm trying my best, but it's a little impossible.
- [39:05]
A
Yeah, well, for you. And you had an expiration date. You knew you were only working here for the summer, but could you tell that other employees who maybe started out a little more skeptical were like, really starting to get into it?
- [39:17]
B
Yes. I feel like some people immediately just embraced it right away. And then I feel like some people have gotten into trouble for talking too much or something behind the counter and started to get their act together a little bit after that. Because you just know if you do certain things, you're going to get called out for it. It's really hard to shortcut things at Chick Fil? A, even when you're baggy. Like, putting the food in bags is one of the stations. Whenever I would try to stuff things all into one bag instead of pulling out two more and they saw it, they would immediately come to me and be like, who bagged this?
- [39:53]
A
Wow. Okay. Just so strict.
- [39:55]
B
Yeah.
- [39:55]
A
So particular. Could you imagine the Chick Fil? A culture and value system and language and demeanor starting to take over someone's life, even outside of Chick Fil? A in a way you think could be actually harmful, or if not harmful than, like, robbing them of their individuality in any way? Like, is the culture that powerful?
- [40:17]
B
There's definitely a mix of people. There's people like me, again, who try not to take it too seriously and I've discussed with those co workers about other people we notice who do take their job very seriously. And I feel like it does affect those people who take it seriously, their outside life a lot because again, like I said, it kind of consumes them. Like, they kind of revolve their life around this job a little bit. And it was hard for me to imagine them outside of work a little bit just because their personality is so shaped by the culture at Chick Fil A. So, yes, I would say it does. Maybe not in a completely degrading way, but definitely in a culty and powerful way. For sure. Yeah. Something else is that for when you are, you know, one of the higher ups or whatever, you get a lot of opportunities for events in Chick Fil A. Like, they were telling me that they have this program where you can travel around the country and be a trainer to help with other grand openings for Chick Fil A. They got really excited about that because they're like, I really want to go to Florida to open a Chick Fil A there and help them there. And it was just like, they're really excited to be a part of that process. They're traveling and getting around was integrated with their Chick Fil A life.
- [41:29]
A
I think just the Christianity aspect of. Of this infuses otherwise kind of typical culty corporate vibes with an extra layer of mission and subservience.
- [41:41]
B
Yeah.
- [41:41]
A
Because I don't know, I can easily see, like, if you're someone who doesn't feel like a more secular work environment is the right fit for you, Chick Fil A could become not just your job, but like a real call, a way to, like, develop a personality and a sense of purpose.
- [42:04]
B
Yeah. I think there was one of the head chefs who worked in the back. I remember during orientation, he was saying that he always imagined himself working at fine dining as a chef and like the head chef of a fine dining restaurant. But then he ended up at Chick Fil A and he said he wouldn't trade it for the world.
- [42:21]
A
They got him.
- [42:21]
B
They got him. And they really emphasized the fact that they want you to feel comfortable. People, I mean, their HR was, you know, very, you know, they checked up on us every once a month. They had a 30 day check in, just, you know, make sure we still liked working there.
- [42:37]
A
Yeah.
- [42:37]
B
And if we had any complaints about not liking working there, to let them know. Okay, so that's good, that's good. But that is another way of just sucking you in, sort of. Because they do make you feel. Yeah. Anything you need and they just want to be like that. Emotional support for you.
- [42:54]
A
Yeah. They're your family.
- [42:55]
B
They are your family.
- [42:56]
A
They use that lingo.
- [42:57]
B
Yes. That was a big thing. You're not co workers. You're family now.
- [43:01]
A
Whoa. It almost feels like not a love bomb, but like a tough love bomb. It's like tough love bomb. Yeah. We're like a parent figure, a pastor figure. Crazy couple. Quick listener questions someone asks, does it kill them inside to have to be so nice to everyone all the time?
- [43:16]
B
It definitely killed me a little bit.
- [43:18]
A
You are a very nice person.
- [43:19]
B
No, I think sometimes it scares me that I'm a good fit to work at Chick Fil? A. But also. So it wasn't that hard for me. Like, for the money, I can put on a nice face and a smile and, you know, but just like any other customer service job, it can be a little bit draining because I think that just constant script you have to live off of.
- [43:40]
A
I would really struggle with that. I mean, I worked in restaurants in college and in high school, but it's a little different. It's so different. It's so different. Like, I could be myself 100%. I mean, I felt pressure here and there, but not in this super strict way to be someone else.
- [43:55]
B
Yeah.
- [43:56]
A
And you. Well, I think this was funny, too. You, like, threw a little shindig here.
- [44:01]
B
For your Chick Fil A friends to.
- [44:03]
A
Celebrate your last day.
- [44:04]
B
Yeah.
- [44:05]
A
And you got to know them a little better, which I thought was funny because the language and the behavior is so strictly monitored at Chick Fil? A. You couldn't really pick up on their individual personalities.
- [44:15]
B
I mean, we definitely had lore drops at work, but the lore drops outside of work was crazy.
- [44:20]
A
Well, it was just funny to me because it reminded me of, like, when people go on silent meditation retreats, which are, like, culty in their own way, where they're, like, surrounded by all these people who aren't talking for weeks or even months. And you project all these things onto them and might assume that their personality is one way. But then when you get out of the silence, you discover that they're completely different people. It's like cultish groups try to control your personality so that you can't really discover who one another is and organize and band together to rebel.
- [44:53]
B
Just to piggyback off of that. That now I'm realizing that a lot of the humor and kind of conversation at Chick Fil A was, like, about work or, like, they were jokes about the language or whatever. Yeah. So obviously I talked about getting to know People outside their lives on a, you know, surface level. But when we would joke around and stuff, it'd be about certain things that happened with like a customer or.
- [45:17]
A
Yeah.
- [45:17]
B
And I, I'm sure that's normal to an extent at many fast food places. Places. But I just felt like it was a little bit more integrated here because that was kind of the only thing we could talk about. Like one of the biggest things was on the fly means get that out like quickest, get that out the fastest. Yeah, like we made a mistake. Get this order out right away. And we'd always joke like oh, can we get that on the fly? On the fly. Like it's so stupid and unfunny. But that was.
- [45:44]
A
Well, but when you're so limited and that in combination with the fact that Chick Fil A is all this world building, you know, I think it also.
- [45:51]
B
Depends because I've asked my other friends who work at Chick Fil A and I think it's definitely different at each location. Like they actually. But I think especially because we all started at the same place together and like met during grand opening and like that's the only way we know each other. Definitely had an effect on like how we got to the point. Yeah.
- [46:12]
A
This is an interesting question. I wonder what your take is on it. Why and how do they have so many teenagers working there?
- [46:18]
B
It could be cuz we're very malleable or it could be just cuz maybe it is because I think it is. I think there were definitely a lot of mid 20 year olds there too at my location. But for some reason I always misgues people's age all the time. I always thought they were my age, 19. And then when I learned they were like 26 or 27, I was like, whoa, what's your skincare? Even if they were mid-20s, they still seemed young.
- [46:42]
A
Well, I think everybody, everybody looks like a, like a Christian.
- [46:47]
B
I feel like in our uniform it's really hard to tell sometimes.
- [46:51]
A
Yeah.
- [46:51]
B
But yeah, I think, God, that, that kind of made me rethink a little bit.
- [46:57]
A
Maybe I'm really malleable. The whole place is giving youth group for sure.
- [47:01]
B
And I think also maybe they want people to work their way up. I think the higher ups had been working there from someone like my age 16 or I'm 19, but wow, 17 year olds and they work your way up over the years. You kind of have to be that young to work your way up. I guess they want, maybe they want long term success.
- [47:20]
A
They want lifers.
- [47:21]
B
They want lifers.
- [47:22]
A
Because that's pretty culty.
- [47:23]
B
Yeah.
- [47:24]
A
The next listener question goes. Can the expectations of politeness ever go too far in terms of what higher ups expect? And you have a story that speaks to this.
- [47:34]
B
All right, so the one day I had to walk to work. I was on my way in my little Chick Fil a outfit, and someone rolled their window down and stopped me and was like, hey, do you work at Chick Fil A? I was like, yeah. I was a little scared what they were going to say. You never know what that reaction is.
- [47:52]
A
Going to be like. You were afraid they were going to.
- [47:53]
B
Like, throw rotting fruit at you, the tomatoes at me. She was like, okay, well, there's a bomb threat going on at the bank nearby Chick Fil A right now. If I were you, I would call your manager and see if you should still go in or whatever.
- [48:06]
A
This was just a civilian.
- [48:08]
B
This was just a civilian. She worked at a store near the complex at that Chick Fil A. Okay. I thought she was joking with me at first, but then I was like, that's so intense. Thank you for telling me.
- [48:17]
A
America, baby.
- [48:19]
B
So I tried to call my manager and text them. They weren't responding, and I wasn't sure what the deal was yet. So me, being the bright person that I am, kept walking there because I had nowhere else to go. I walked there and there were helicopters. There's like three or four surrounding the area. Cops blocking off the intersection, not letting anybody into the vicinity. And I asked the cop if I'm still good to go into work right there. What's going on? And he said, if I were you, I would not go in. Better safe than sorry. And that really scared me because he was telling me that some guy came in saying he was going to bomb the whole place up. Yeah, terrifying. But I still saw all my co workers working in there. So I was really confused, and I didn't want to just not go in. Anyway, I went up there because they.
- [49:05]
A
Have a point system where if you're.
- [49:07]
B
Yeah, I was scared that I would get fired, I guess, if I didn't show up, because the point system is very serious. So I went in and I was just, like, kind of flustered because I was like, guys, what are we doing here? Do you not know what's going on? The cops just told me I shouldn't come in, and they were kind of laughing about it. Oh, yeah, we heard. It's. It's crazy. And I guess I was just kind of acting a little freaked out, and they were looking at me a little Bit weird. And I was like, okay, maybe I shouldn't be talking it about. About this right here. So I went to the back and talked to my manager, told him what the cop told me because the place.
- [49:37]
A
Was, like, surrounded by cops.
- [49:40]
B
Yes. I mean, the helicopter is definitely right there. And cops were literally not letting anybody park or go in there. Yeah. So my manager was like, well, as of right now, we're still running operations like normal. And because they haven't told us anything. But he said, I understand if you want to go home and you're uncomfortable. Comfortable.
- [49:59]
A
You called me and Casey and we were like, get the out of there.
- [50:02]
B
And I was like. It was kind of very passive. Like, he wasn't really looking at me, like. And I was like, Everybody else seemed really. I was the only one that was concerned. So I was just. I called you guys right away and was like, I. I don't know exactly what to do. And you guys obviously told me to get out of there. So I start walking out, and all my co workers are like, what are you doing? Where are you going? I'm like, oh, I'll be back. So I'm just bumming around town for two hours. I went thrifting, of course. I felt so weird thrifting in my Chick Fil a outfit.
- [50:31]
A
So funny to think about you walking around.
- [50:33]
B
I was like, I definitely got a lot of stares because I looked like a little Mormon girl. Like, going to preach the Bible to some people.
- [50:40]
A
That's so amazing.
- [50:41]
B
And I was like, I swear I have better style than this. Like, please. Yeah. I was just very flustered because no one was concerned. And eventually I went back after two hours and they actually.
- [50:51]
A
Just to see if the place had cleared up.
- [50:52]
B
Yeah. Because I needed the money. So sorry. They closed and no one told me. I was just so appalled, I guess, that Such that no one told me that they closed and whatever.
- [51:04]
A
It is a wild story. It's like the most American story ever. Like, bomb threat by the Chick Fil A.
- [51:11]
B
Well, when I went to one of the thrift stores, I told the lady who was running it or working there the whole situation and that I felt like I was in a movie where that one person's trying to warn everybody and everybody's just like, yeah, like you were a whistleblower. I kind of. Yeah. I realized later that I don't think they actually knew the full extent of the situation yet, especially my co workers. The lady was so concerned for me that she gave me a discount on my bag because she didn't want Me walking around with no money.
- [51:37]
A
She was like, you poor kids.
- [51:39]
B
Well, at first she was like, I don't support Chick Fil A and what they do, but I understand you need to get your money. She's like, no, I don't blame you, but I never go there, but. Which is what a lot of people say. Yeah. And then there were also some friends that were like, can you please get me some free. My way of making.
- [51:55]
A
Oh, my God. People being, I don't support Chick Fil A, but I'm happy to freeload off.
- [51:59]
B
No. Yeah. My way of making friends. And maybe I'm manipulative, but I just offered people free Chick Fil A. I was like, oh, yeah, I got you anytime you need cult recruiter energy. I don't know. I never got to that point, but, man, did it work.
- [52:16]
A
I mean, it's such a ridiculous story. I actually, now that I'm thinking about it, there was once a bomb threat at my old job.
- [52:21]
B
Really?
- [52:21]
A
Because it was in the same building as Reinder office offices. I didn't work at Grindr, but I wish. But there was, like, anti LGBTQ threat, like, bomb threat.
- [52:30]
B
Oh, wow.
- [52:31]
A
And everybody, I'll tell you right now, everybody cleared the out of that building asap.
- [52:36]
B
I would have thought what happened that would have been funny if it was that Chickfila. No, I don't. I don't know.
- [52:44]
A
Barking up the wrong tree, clucking up the wrong roost.
- [52:48]
B
No, I don't. I actually don't know the whole situation, but. Well, it was scary. And I'm not less.
- [52:52]
A
If I may, and this is my opinion, and this is alleged, I do think that probably some of the, dare I say, toxic positivity and submissive energy at Chick Fil A contributed to people not freaking out right away.
- [53:08]
B
Yes, for sure. I don't know if it was some capitalist mentality either. Like, we need the money. They did the right thing by closing down. Whether. I don't know. But I asked other people later if they got like, a notice or something that not to come in, and they said they all got a text, and I was the only one who didn't. They're like, oh, that's really weird.
- [53:27]
A
I was like, yeah, a little pointed.
- [53:29]
B
Oh, my God. It was. Yeah. Anyway.
- [53:34]
A
Okay, so we should address some of these anti LGBTQ controversies. The Kathy family has publicly opposed same sex marriage, and the company donated millions to organizations opposing LGBTQ+ rights, including the Salvation army and Fellowship of Christian athletes until 2019, when they announced they'd be discontinuing those donations in 2012, CEO Dan Cathy said that the company supported, quote, the Biblical definition of the family. Backlash led to boycotts, but also surges in sales from supporters. So very polarized, are we surprised? Historically, these anti LGBTQ donations led to criticism, particularly from the political left. However, more recently, Chick Fil? A has also faced criticism. Criticism from conservatives who have accused the company of, quote, going woke by embracing diversity, equity and inclusion policies and hiring a vice president of dei. That is according to a New York Times piece titled why Chick Fil? A Is Drawing Fire over a Culture of Belonging Now. While Chick Fil? A has made efforts to distance itself from organizations with anti LGBTQ stances and redirect its philanthropic efforts, skepticism still persists due to the company's past actions and perceived lack of apology and lingering concerns of commitment to full inclusivity. So tensions remain. Some listeners wanted to know are there queer employees? Is being gay frowned upon? Is there palpable homophobia in the workplace? I guess you don't know about every Chick Fil A location, but how'd it feel at yours?
- [55:08]
B
Mine actually felt quite the opposite. I did have gay employees. I'm bisexual.
- [55:12]
A
Okay, coming out on the pod. Yes, this is a bicon podcast. Thank you.
- [55:18]
B
I feel like I'm actually in the safe space now. But no, I never saw or witnessed a problem with that. I remember during the first training day also someone shouted out. They went to the Pride parade or whatever and the managers or whatever were excited for them and there wasn't any weird reaction or whatever. Yeah, maybe if they were homophobic, maybe they just didn't talk about it or kept it hidden. But honestly, at my location, I can only speak for my location. It was fine. And that's not to say the corporation as a whole still has of a lot, a lot of work to do on that. But each Chick Fil A is privately owned, so it could be very different across different locations.
- [55:56]
A
Someone else asks how do people justify supporting them knowing they're bigoted at their core?
- [56:04]
B
It takes it tastes so good.
- [56:06]
A
We talked about this literally last night. I try to be a conscious consumer as much as I can. I feel guilty when I order things on Amazon and yet what am I supposed to fucking do? My My closest grocery store is Whole Foods. They're ordered by Amazon. It's late stage capitalism.
- [56:20]
B
Chick Fil? A is definitely one of the more avoidable ones in that sense. It is.
- [56:25]
A
It really, really is.
- [56:26]
B
There are many chicken spots and you can get used to the taste of other ones.
- [56:30]
A
You're not trying to make that particular sacrifice yourself?
- [56:34]
B
No, I mean, I feel like it was so available to me this summer that, you know, my 80% discount, I couldn't get past that.
- [56:41]
A
Well, yeah, I mean, you're representing the brand. You live, laugh, love to that brand.
- [56:44]
B
Literally. I don't know, it's definitely more avoidable.
- [56:47]
A
But at the end of the day, there is a lot to keep track of.
- [56:50]
B
Yeah.
- [56:51]
A
I'm not justifying it. Again, I have never stepped foot into a Chick Fil A.
- [56:55]
B
You want to try today? No, I still can get that discount for you.
- [56:58]
A
No, I don't eat chicken.
- [57:01]
B
I wonder if they'll ever come out with some sort of vegan option. That would be crazy.
- [57:05]
A
I'm not trying to shame anyone. I do think that most people I know, even those who eat at Chick Fil A, and I know a lot of people eat at Chick Fil A overall try to do the best they can to support brands that they believe in and no one's perfect.
- [57:21]
B
Yeah, it's definitely one of the harder things to justify. But I feel like, again, just people kind of take this one as a joke, just cuz it is really silly. The culture there, like, feels very old school and silly. And so it's kind of like, again, reclaiming it or. Or just kind of like.
- [57:37]
A
I don't even think. Okay.
- [57:38]
B
I think reclaiming is far.
- [57:39]
A
The reclamation is like a bit of a stretch, but I think it's more of like. I think it's almost satirical.
- [57:45]
B
I told you this before, but I would always try to be extra nice to like, the gay people that came.
- [57:51]
A
In, trying to make up for it.
- [57:53]
B
Yeah, I would just be like super, like, attentive and just like, you're safe here, you're safe here. Because I didn't want them to think I was one of them.
- [58:01]
A
You wanted to, like, somehow signal that you were bi.
- [58:04]
B
I just wanted to somehow signal that I'm not against them and, you know, take their own hand.
- [58:11]
A
That feels like some kind of SNL sketch. I swear to God. Okay, now it's time to play a little game. It's a classic game of. Would you rather Cult of Chick Fil A Edition?
- [58:27]
B
Okay.
- [58:28]
A
Ready?
- [58:28]
B
I'm ready.
- [58:29]
A
Would you rather have to give up the cult of Chick Fil a forever or give up the cult of Trader James Joe's forever?
- [58:38]
B
Maybe the Cult of Chick Fil A. I want to say that I'm kind of sick and tired of it after having it every week this summer.
- [58:44]
A
Yeah.
- [58:45]
B
And Trader Joe's obviously has a Lot more options. So that's.
- [58:48]
A
Well, I think that too has been like smart on Chick Fil A's part. Just in terms of business acumen to like really focus on this like core menu.
- [58:57]
B
Yeah.
- [58:57]
A
And not get too experimental. Would you rather be required to say my pleasure after every interaction for five years straight. Straight or never eat fast food ever again.
- [59:06]
B
What counts as fast food though? Like, does Wingstop count as fast food?
- [59:10]
A
I don't know what that is, but I feel like anything Panera level of formal or below, that's fast casual. So we'll also say fast casual.
- [59:19]
B
Yeah, I would never eat fast food again. That's probably for the best. And there's definitely so many better things. I remember when I went to France for a month or like a month or two a couple summers ago. I was so worried because they don't have Chick Fil a there. And that that was again one of the times where I was just so addicted to it and looked forward to it. So it was kind of like a cleanse. But there was so much good food there. Like they would make me homemade food every day, so I couldn't really complain at all. And when I got back when I had Chick Fil A, it was disgusting. When I ate it for the first time, I was like, oh, that happened again. So I'm getting into this whole rant when I have cleansed of Chick Fil A and I get back into it.
- [59:59]
A
That's religious language too.
- [60:01]
B
When I've cleansed at school, my friends. First year at Syracuse, there wasn't one nearby, so I didn't have it all semester. And when I got home to try it during winter break, I couldn't finish it cuz it just was so disgusting to me. And it made me feel awful.
- [60:15]
A
That's how you know.
- [60:15]
B
But then I tried it again and I loved it. So it's weird. It's happened twice to me.
- [60:19]
A
So it's like a vice that claims to be sinless.
- [60:22]
B
Yeah. You have to be invited to the.
- [60:24]
A
That's a crazy juxtaposition too, is that it's fried chicken. This is not necessarily like, like a health food. I mean we make so much religious in this culture. You know how there's that popcorn brand that's called Lesser Evil?
- [60:38]
B
Oh, I didn't know that.
- [60:39]
A
You've never had it? I've bought it. It's good.
- [60:41]
B
I want to try it.
- [60:42]
A
It's good. Okay, but it's just fun. It's supposed to be like a healthier alternative to whatever, like buttery Popcorn. But why are we incorporating the word evil into our health foods? Like, it's moralizing food, and I feel like Chick Fil A is moralizing this fried chicken sandwich. There's, like, weird juxtaposition and irony there too.
- [61:03]
B
Yeah.
- [61:03]
A
Which I feel like is disturbing and also alluring. That's, like, why people enjoy it. It's like, God approves of this fried.
- [61:10]
B
Chicken so you can eat it.
- [61:12]
A
That's so weird. Okay. Would you rather have to wear your Chick Fil A uniform every day everywhere you go for a year, or get a tramp stamp?
- [61:19]
B
Tramp stamp.
- [61:20]
A
Okay. That says I heart Jesus.
- [61:25]
B
I would do that just because I could play it off as ironic. The Chick Fil A uniform. I remember when I went to your cult show. One of the first weeks of working there, I had to Uber from work, and I had my Chick Fil A uniform on, and someone was like, is that a costume that the, like, security guards or whatever? I was like, no.
- [61:42]
A
Oh, my God.
- [61:43]
B
I'd much rather have a tramp stamp. That could be funny.
- [61:45]
A
That totally could be funny, because a tramp stamp is obviously a joke.
- [61:49]
B
Yeah.
- [61:49]
A
What if you had to tattoo to it?
- [61:51]
B
Like, My Pleasure? Oh, that's even worse. Really?
- [61:58]
A
I didn't even think. That's really bad.
- [62:03]
B
There's definitely someone who has done that before.
- [62:05]
A
You don't want to commemorate your summer at Chick Fil A with the My Pleasure tramp stand?
- [62:08]
B
Do you think there's someone. There has to be someone in the world who has a tramp stand.
- [62:13]
A
We're gonna Google that later.
- [62:14]
B
Oh, my gosh. If you're one the of them, please. Okay, last one.
- [62:20]
A
Would you rather have to put Chick Fil A sauce on everything you eat for the rest of your life or have to attend an evangelical mega church service every Sunday for the rest of your life?
- [62:30]
B
That could be lit. I mean, like, I don't know.
- [62:33]
A
It's kind of time consuming.
- [62:35]
B
It's kind of time consuming. The Chick Fil A sauce is really good, but I would probably lose 20 years of my life if I put it on every single thing. So. Hell, yeah. I go to a mega church. Okay.
- [62:46]
A
Protect your. I mean, you could put your music business degree to use and, like, work on that. They. They're like, concerts, those mega church services.
- [62:54]
B
I mean, it depends what the music is like. I mean, I'm down for some gospel music. That would be.
- [62:59]
A
I don't. Well, okay. Yeah, maybe if you go down south. I feel like it's a lot of. Well, actually, we have an episode out on the cult of Christian pop music.
- [63:06]
B
Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [63:07]
A
I mean, I think it definitely. It's moving. That's the whole point.
- [63:11]
B
Yeah.
- [63:11]
A
Anyway, another conversation for another day.
- [63:14]
B
No, I think that honestly, the mega church would be fun.
- [63:16]
A
I mean, I think mega church services are fascinating. Okay, now I have to ask you the ultimate sounds like a cult question. Out of our three cult categories, live your life, watch your back, and get the fuck out, which category do you think Chick Fil A falls into?
- [63:40]
B
God. Gosh, I feel like it might be in between live your life and watch your back. If you're a customer, live your life. If you're a worker there or a team member, as you call it, I'd watch your back a little bit.
- [63:52]
A
Yeah.
- [63:53]
B
Just because it can consume your life. If you do take it very seriously.
- [63:58]
A
What if they were still lobbying for or contributing to anti queer organizations?
- [64:02]
B
Yeah, get out. Because that is so.
- [64:05]
A
Would you boycott if you found out?
- [64:06]
B
I could. I mean, I'm not that addicted. Okay. It could be worse, I think, if they were still actively and openly and who knows if they are under the radar. Under the radar. I'm not trying to defend that at all, but I agree. I did save up a lot of money this summer.
- [64:22]
A
I. And that's great.
- [64:23]
B
If anything, I was using them. Okay.
- [64:25]
A
Exactly. No, it was a good summer job.
- [64:28]
B
Definitely wasn't a bad experience. I mean, it did teach me a lot about customer service. Yeah, patience, for sure.
- [64:34]
A
Wow.
- [64:35]
B
Kids.
- [64:35]
A
Carys, thank you so much for joining this episode of Sounds Like a Cult.
- [64:40]
B
It's my pleasure.
- [64:42]
A
Oh, God. You're going to need to, like, excise that from your sister.
- [64:46]
B
Natural.
- [64:47]
A
Do you want some Instagram followers? You want to drop your at?
- [64:50]
B
Sure. My AT is so stupid. I made it in fifth grade. It's Carys. C A R Y S Abuka. A V, O, O, C A.
- [65:00]
A
What does that mean?
- [65:01]
B
Mean. When I was in fifth grade, I was obsessed with avocados. For some reason.
- [65:05]
A
You still are.
- [65:06]
B
Yeah, I love avocados. And I was trying to make it Carista Avocados to be really different and funny, but I. For some reason, I didn't realize that I didn't spell the whole word out.
- [65:16]
A
It sounds like Avuka is your middle name.
- [65:18]
B
Everybody thinks it's like my last or middle name, but it's cute. It's just been that way since fifth grade and I've never changed it. And some people have that nickname for me.
- [65:28]
A
All right, well, so as this recording, Kara Savuca has only two posts up, which is very Gen Z. Very restrained of you.
- [65:36]
B
We're getting there. I'm trying to switch to a casual Instagram. Oh yeah, Slowly, maybe. I don't know.
- [65:43]
A
And we'll put it out there. Caris's dream is to intern in A24's new music department, so if anyone listening.
- [65:49]
B
Has a connect, I think I'd be a much better a 24 employee than a Chick Fil. A employee just fine.
- [65:54]
A
Yeah. Charis has many, many, many musical talents outside of her beautiful customer service skills. Well, that's our show. Thanks so much for listening. Stick around for a new cult next week, but in the meantime, stay culty but not too culty. Sounds Like a Cult was created by Amanda Montel and and edited by Jordan Moore of the Pie Cabin. This episode was hosted by Amanda Montel. Our managing producer is Katie Epperson. Our theme music is by Casey Cole. If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave it 5 stars on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. It really helps the show a lot. And if you like this podcast, feel free to check out my book Cultish the Language of Fanaticism, which inspired the show. You might also enjoy my other books, the Age of Magical Overthinking, Notes on Modern Irrationality and Word A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language. Thanks as well to our network studio 71 and be sure to follow the Sounds Like a Cult cult on Instagram for all the discourse. Soundslikeacultpod or support us on Patreon to listen to the show. Ad free@patreon.com soundslikeacult.
- [67:15]
C
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A
Customize and save.
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C
We say that may have been too much feeling. Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Very unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts. Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change. Your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown small coffee for just $5 only at McDonald's for a limited time. Prices and participation may vary. Experian is your big financial friend, helping you explore credit card offers with confidence. Some cards are labeled no Ding Decline, which means if you're not approved, they won't hurt your credit scores. See experian.com for details. Applying for cards labeled no Ding Decline won't hurt your credit scores if you aren't initially approved.
- [68:11]
A
Experian hello Overthinkers. It's your host, Amanda, here with a very exciting something extra to tune into this week. Moving My beloved husband and I were guests on the Starter Marriage podcast, hosted by my friends Alison Raskin and John Blakesley. In this episode, I got more personal about my real life than ever have ever on a microphone. In fact, my husband Casey is here right now.
- [68:42]
B
Say hello. Hello everyone.
- [68:44]
A
He's new to podcasting, but in the episode we talked about our engagement. So story why the hell should a person get married? We talked about how we met, how he dumped me when we were in high school on aim. We spilled the tea on what we think makes our marriage oh so special. I'm so excited to share this episode with you. Starter Marriage is a fantastic show that explores modern marriage and you can listen to it every Monday wherever you get your podcasts, including on YouTube.