The Cult of Duolingo

Summary

Sounds Like A Cult

Episode: The Cult of Duolingo

Hosts: Amanda Montell, Chelsea Charles
Guest: Zaria Parvez (Global Social Media Manager at Duolingo)
Release Date: August 19, 2025

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Overview

This episode of Sounds Like A Cult dives into the unexpected zealotry surrounding Duolingo, the viral language-learning app known for its persistent owl mascot and highly gamified interface. Hosts Amanda Montell and Chelsea Charles—joined by Duolingo’s social media manager Zaria Parvez—break down whether devotion to Duolingo is just quirky fandom or something more cultish, examining the app’s rituals, shame tactics, community features, and internal culture. The episode seeks to answer: Does Duolingo merely sound like a cult, or is there something deeper at play underneath those streaks and push notifications?

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why Duolingo? The Cult Framework

• Cult Categories Introduction (03:55):
  Amanda and Chelsea introduce their three categories for “cultiness”:

  • Live Your Life
  • Watch Your Back
  • Get the Fuck Out
    They explain that cults can be benign, sinister, or merely intense hobbies, setting the stage for Duolingo’s place on this spectrum.

• Listener Requests Spark the Episode (05:47): Amanda recounts an “alarming” listener email detailing obsessive behaviors around streaks and the social features of the app—underscoring that many see it as cultish in its grip.

• What Makes Duolingo “Culty”? (03:01, 09:29):
  Discussion centers on the app’s use of gamification, ritual, and shame—with its mascot Duo “shaming” users and community dynamics enforcing engagement.

2. The Ritual of Streaks & Push Notifications

• App’s Behavioral Hooks (02:47, 32:30):
  Amanda notes:

  “We have to talk about the push notifications and the streaks. Duolingo users are obsessed with their streaks.” (02:47)

  Zaria Parvez (32:30) explains:

  “It’s literally based off of gamified apps […] If we personalize it, if we are pushy and we’re passive aggressive, which is not what normal push notifications did at the time, then people will come back. 'Cause it’s personal. It feels like a personal attack.”

• Shame & Love-Bombing (20:56, 33:38):
  Chelsea shares how she felt emotionally manipulated by Duo’s messages.

  “I honestly felt like Duo loved me, but I also did feel a little sense of shame associated with that.” (33:38)

• Sunk Cost Fallacy (33:38):
  Chelsea highlights:

  “…a little sunk cost fallacy, like, sprinkled into that, which is, obviously, we know one of the main tenants of many of the cults that we talk about…”

3. Origins & Gamification Strategy

• App History Recap (10:09):
  Amanda traces Duolingo’s origins from a Carnegie Mellon research project to gamified app and, eventually, cultural phenomenon. Co-founder Luis von Ahn (of CAPTCHA fame) initially envisioned internet-scale translation crowdsourcing, with gamification (like streaks and leaderboards) quickly becoming core.

• The Mascot as Cult Leader (13:13, 25:31):
  Chelsea and Amanda joke about the owl being charismatic and almost religious:

  “Duo transcends anything earthly.” (13:28)
  “Before I thought that Duo was our charismatic cult leader. But now with further research—Zaria, you are the culty charismatic leader. You took the Krusty Owl out of the office, made them twerk online. You are the mastermind. You're the cult leader.” (25:31)

4. Community, Competition, and Social Pressure

• Competitive Structure (15:29, 38:15):
  Chelsea describes leaderboards, nudges, “friend streaks”:

  “There are ledger boards that you can build with strangers on the internet...but it's people you actually know and are in community with that's like, hey, you missed a day. Get on your zoom.” (15:29)

• Social Media and Fandom (23:17, 29:12):
  Zaria discusses Duolingo’s explosion as a brand and community—cultivated on TikTok with Duo as a cheeky, meme-friendly character, and how user-generated fan art, memes, and even tattoos have emerged.

  “People are obsessed with their streaks. They're always making fan art. If you type in Lily fan art, you're gonna get some weird shit.” (23:17)

5. Corporate Culture & Internal Rituals

• Duolingo’s Internal Culture (44:28, 46:13):
  Zaria opens up about employee “quirkiness,” internal lingo (“Duos”), annual “duiversity,” and how the company purposely hires for personality fit:

  “I think there is the quintessential Duolingo employee…it's going to be hard for them to fit in here…” (44:28) “We have this thing called duiversity where every year it's our birthday...it’s a very duolingo type thing.” (46:13)

6. Ethics, Expansion, and Limits

• Gamification Ethics (43:07):

  “If eyeballs and streaks and fanaticism and shame is profitable, what incentive is there to roll it back?” (43:07)

• Expansion Beyond Languages (41:30): Zaria details Duolingo’s foray into chess, math, music, and more:

  “...it's like, how do we like, take over education and make it a cult but make it fun?” (41:30)

• Comparison to Religion & Other Cults (27:24, 28:43): Amanda draws parallels to religious imagery and community-building, suggesting Duolingo’s cast of characters is like the “12 disciples.”

7. Who Joins the “Cult” of Duolingo?

• Archetypes & Appeal (40:01): Zaria explains the diversity of use cases—from grandfathers convinced the owl is sentient, to teenagers drawn by memes, to “hardcore” language fans—making a single archetype impossible.

8. Mission, Wholesomeness, and Final Verdict

• Mission as a Lure (31:04):
  Amanda connects Duolingo’s “wholesome” mission (accessible education) to cultish tendencies, and Zaria discusses how it makes users feel good, productive, and virtuous.

  “It makes you feel good about yourself…” (31:29)

• Cult Category Decision (53:32):

  • Chelsea: “I am Live your life with duo A thousand percent.” (53:44)
  • Amanda: “It's a Live your Life. But I think one of the cultiest things about it is the false promise that this is an app for language learning. It's not. It's just an iPhone game.” (54:13)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Streak Addiction & Pushiness:

  “If we personalize it, if we are pushy and passive aggressive—which is not what normal push notifications did at the time—then people will come back because it’s personal. It feels like a personal attack.”
  — Zaria Parvez (03:01, 32:30)

• On Love/ Shame from the App:

  "I honestly felt like Duo loved me, but I also did feel a little sense of shame associated with that."
  — Chelsea Charles (03:10, 33:38)

• On Ritual & Escapism:

  "It has become super ritualistic for her. So like, at the top of the day, she does Duolingo. It's become as much a part of her morning as coffee or brushing her teeth."
  — Chelsea Charles (14:37)

• On Mascot Origins:

  “Duo is green because one of our co-founders hates the color green and they made him green just to troll him.”
  — Zaria Parvez (26:37)

• On the Company Culture:

  "I think we are a cult. But that’s fine. We’re all cults in our own way, right? That’s what they tell themselves, right?"
  — Zaria Parvez (45:51)

• On Duolingo’s Social Success:

  “Every time there’s a viral video, we're getting new users. So, like, keep shaking that ass, mascot.”
  — Zaria Parvez (43:21)

• Summing up Duolingo’s Mission:

  “Even if it is just an iPhone game, it’s an iPhone game that is trying to introduce people to new ideas and a new way of seeing the world in a very lighthearted, low temperature way.”
  — Amanda Montell (48:56)

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Timeline & Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:55] — Cult Categories Introduction
• [05:47] — Listener Email Highlights Duolingo's Cult Features
• [10:09] — Duolingo’s History and Gamification Roots
• [13:13] — The Rituals and Mascot as Cult Leader
• [20:56] — The Power of Personalized Push Notifications
• [23:17] — User Fandom and Social Media Strategy
• [25:31] — Zaria Outed as the "Cult Leader"
• [29:12] — Tattoos, Fan Art, and Meme Fandom
• [32:30] — Gamification and Shame Mechanics
• [33:38] — Sunk Cost Fallacy and Emotional Manipulation
• [38:15] — Competitive Features and Community
• [41:30] — Expansion into Other Domains
• [44:28] — Hiring Practices and Internal Rituals
• [53:32] — Hosts Decide Duolingo’s Cult Category

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Tone and Language

The tone is playful, sassy, self-aware, and gently irreverent. The hosts blend social critique with humor, encouraging listeners to reflect on their own “culty” behaviors while remaining non-judgmental and inclusive.

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Final Verdict

The Cult of Duolingo:

• Live Your Life
  Amanda and Chelsea agree that while Duolingo leverages plenty of classic cult tactics—ritual, shame, charismatic leadership (the owl, Zaria!)—its “cult” is fundamentally benign, even wholesome. It’s more iPhone game than genuine school, and while it keeps users hooked, it ultimately promotes a fun, accessible form of self-improvement.

“If you want to play an iPhone game, live your life. If you want to learn a language, find a meetup… That’s free too.” — Amanda Montell (54:13)

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Where to Find Zaria Parvez

• LinkedIn newsletter
• (Trying to migrate to Substack!) (53:03)

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Recommendation

Duolingo: Fun, community-building, and maybe a little “cultish”—but in all the best ways. Supplement for real fluency, but enjoy the rituals (and the memes) guilt-free.

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“Stay culty—but not too culty.”

Transcript

[Amanda Montell]

This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform where professionals, entrepreneurs, artists, podcasters can stand out and succeed online and sell absolutely anything from products to content to even your valuable time. Sounds like a cult.com is a proud Squarespace website and you do not have to be a web developer to use Squarespace to create something truly beautiful. And that is thanks to many of their features including their design intelligence, Squarespace payments through a subscription model model or one time payments. I also love that Squarespace makes it easy to set up a charity online. If you're trying to raise money, do a fundraiser, head to squarespace.com for a free trial and when you're ready to Launch, go to squarespace.com cult to save 10% on your first purchase of a website or domain I have two cats, which means double the cuddles and double the trouble and double the odor. Unless you use a gorgeous product that controls odor and helps you keep your cats healthy, like Pretty Litter. Pretty Litter is formulated with silica gel crystals that are safe for both humans and cats, and advanced odor control means that your home won't smell like pee and Pretty Litter can detect abnormalities in your cat's urine. Right now, save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy at PrettyLitter.com cult that's PrettyLittleitter.com cult to save 20% on your first order AND get a free cat toy. Prettylitter.com cult Pretty Litter cannot detect every feline health issue or prevent or diagnose diseases. A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian. Terms and conditions of supply Csight for details I can say with confidence that I used to have a purely hate hate relationship with my wireless provider because it was so expensive. Thank heavens there are services like Mint Mobile. With Mint you get the wireless coverage and speed that you're used to. For way less money and for a limited time, Mint mobile is offering three months of unlimited premium wireless service for just 15 bucks a month, all delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Mint Mobile is lit this year. Skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get this new customer offer and your three month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month. MintMobile.com cult that's MintMobile.com cult upfront payment of $45 required equivalent to 15 bucks a month limited time new customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may be slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. The views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable fact. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. We have to talk about the push notifications and the streaks. Duolingo users are obsessed with their streaks.

[Chelsea Charles]

I opened my duolingo app a few minutes before jumping on and Duo had this little message and they were like, am I dreaming? Chelsea, are you back?

[Amanda Montell]

Stop.

[Zaria Parvez]

If we personalize it, if we are pushy and we're passive aggressive, which is not what normal push notifications did at the time, then people will come back because it's personal. It feels like a personal attack.

[Chelsea Charles]

I honestly felt like Duo loved me, but I also did feel a little sense of shame associated with that.

[Amanda Montell]

This is Sounds Like a Cult, a show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm your host Amanda Montel, author of some books about language titled Wordslet and Cultish.

[Chelsea Charles]

And I'm your co host Chelsea Charles, an unscripted TV producer and a lifelong student of pop culture sociology.

[Amanda Montell]

Every week on the show we discuss a different zeitgeisty group that puts the cults in culture from sleepaway camp to incels to try and answer the big question.

[Chelsea Charles]

This group sounds like a cult. But is it really?

[Amanda Montell]

And if so, which of our three cult categories does it fall into? A live your life, a watch your back, or a get the fuck out after all these days in 2025. Cultish influence falls along a continuum, and the word cult can mean a lot of different things. Obviously it can mean something very sinister when describing destructive groups like NXIVM or QAnon. Sometimes though, it's just used to sort of judge groups that we don't agree agree with. Obviously sometimes it's just used as a joke, like if someone's really into Trader Joe's cookie butter, we're like, you're so obsessed you're in a cult. And then sometimes that jokey aspect of being in a cult actually starts to cross a line. That is what this show is all about. Exploring and poking a little bit of fun at how cultish influence, for better and for worse, shows up in what we think is the most cultish era of all time. Even sometimes in places that you might not think to look like a promise.

[Chelsea Charles]

Of self improvement with just enough consumerist chaos to make you fear the green owl. Welcome to the Cult of Duolingo, the language app turned identity crisis where users don't just learn Spanish, they become the kind of person who tracks their streak like a vital sign. Whether you're a super subscriber or Fluen and Klingon for no reason, Duo isn't teaching you. It's changing you one push notification at a time.

[Amanda Montell]

Wait, does Duolingo have Klingon? That's kind of lit.

[Chelsea Charles]

You have to say it with the. The accent.

[Amanda Montell]

I don't know. I'm not a Trekkie. I'm more of a Lord of the Rings girly. As we know I'm not. Okay, but you're pulling it off. Chelsea, we should talk about it. Let us defend for a quick second why we wanted to do this episode. Okay.

[Zaria Parvez]

We.

[Amanda Montell]

We have gotten so many requests for it. Listen to this recent email that we got from a listener named Victoria. This was from January of this year. Hi, culties. Yesterday, the Duolingo app had maintenance issues, and let me tell you, people lost their mind about getting kicked out of family plans or potentially losing their streaks. As I explained the system of leagues, streak freezes, double and triple points, et cetera, to my non user friend, I realized how great a topic it would be for Sounds like a cult. Duolingo is unfortunately very effective in keeping you engaged in their cult, even letting cult members terrorize you to do your lessons called Friend Streaks. Would love to hear your take on it. Love the show, and thank you. Best, Victoria.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yes.

[Amanda Montell]

All right. It's a sign. It's a push notification from the Great beyond.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yep.

[Amanda Montell]

What is your relationship to Duolingo, Chelsea?

[Chelsea Charles]

I'm casually on the app here and there. I will say I have a few streaks in a few different languages, but my biggest gripe with Duolingo is that it doesn't really teach you fluency in any language because some of the sentence structures are just totally grammatically incorrect and they don't make sense. Like, I ate ball. When would I ever say that? I would never say I ate ball. Okay.

[Amanda Montell]

Oh, that's very suggestive.

[Chelsea Charles]

I don't know, but I really have dreams of being a polyglot, and so I have streaks in French, Spanish, Haitian Creole, and Portuguese. Oh. But only because I went to Brazil at the top of the year for a month for a show, and I needed to know a little. Little Portuguese. So I was like, oh, my God.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Charles]

Me and my husband were like, let's. Let's get on Duolingo. Let's try to learn Portuguese. We ended up only, like, speaking Spanish in Brazil to communicate. Our Portuguese is trash.

[Amanda Montell]

Well, yeah, I mean, I'm with you. Like, obviously, language is, like, my biggest pass and Lifeblood in the whole wide world. And I love learning foreign languages. Not even to use them, like, just because I think it's good for your mind and it allows you to, like, live an alternate life, you know, when you, like, can learn a new language. But it was always pretty clear to me that Duolingo was just a language learning themed iPhone game. The way that, like, Hinge is just a dark dating themed iPhone game. It's like not actually there to help you do the thing it's purporting. It's literally just there to keep you on the app, like every other app, which is, I guess, a little dishonest, but not necessarily culty. So it didn't occur to me to cover this episode ever, until we just started getting so many requests because the shaming and the ritual and the mascot of the Duolingo owl, it's so obvious that behind the scenes, the people who work at Duolingo are trying to build a culture that's alluring and addictive and comes with exit costs. And I'm like, whoa, this is actually a great topic. And I am so curious to talk to our guest later who actually works at Duolingo. She's a higher up on Duo's social media team and I feel like talking to her will really help us determine whether Duo is just to live your life or bordering moron, watch your back or even get the fuck out. I don't know. You can make a cult out of anything these days.

[Chelsea Charles]

You really could. And I mean to add to it a little bit, and we'll jump into this a little bit later, but it's because of all the things associated with Duolingo, because it's not just the app, just as you're saying, it's the TikTok account associated with the app. It's the added learning, the podcast that is associated with the app, which I live for the podcast. It's like real life situational stuff and they'll say it in English and then they'll also say it in the other language. Like, I don't know, I'm not in the cult, but I am cult adjacent to the cult of Duo lingo.

[Amanda Montell]

Okay, word. All right, so that's already a green flag that you can, in theory, just dip a toe in.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yes.

[Amanda Montell]

But I know a lot of people who have both feet, all ten talents. Does a. Does an owl have. Yeah. Knee deep in this world and could not give up their streak unless they were without psychological misery? I'll say that. Let's get a little bit into the origin story of Duolingo, because some might be wondering, how the fuck could a language learning app be classified as a cult? So Duolingo started back in 2009. It was a wild idea concocted up in a Carnegie Mellon lab in Pittsburgh. The app was co founded by a computer scientist named Lewis von App. And fun fact, he was a guy who also co founded the Captcha. You know, that little like annoying security thing where you have to like type in whatever, some letters to prove that you're human. This fucking guy. Anyways, he founded Duolingo with a student of his named Severin Hacker. And if that is not a supervillain name, it's giving Severus Snape his last name is literally Hacker. He's trying to hack into people's brains and souls and listen. The original goal wasn't just to teach languages. It was actually to crowdsource translations of the entire Internet, which is cool, lofty, but okay. By the time Duolingo launched publicly in 2012, it had seriously gamified language lessons. By then, this idea of streaks was introduced. You know how, like, on the Strava app for runners, you don't want to, like, break your running streak and like, your friends can cheer you on. They were kind of doing that same thing for language learning. And all the while, you had a little mascot, this cartoon owl, cheering you on or threatening you if you didn't keep up with your lessons. And these lessons honestly didn't feel like grammar drills so much as they actually felt like a little break for your brain, A little respite, a little escapism. Eventually, the app shifted away from translation and leaned into education hard this mission to spread multilingualism around the world. And it rolled out things like stories, podcasts, even its own English proficiency exam. So the expansion was expansioning and it worked. Now, with over 80 million users, a public stock offering, and new courses in math, music, and literacy, Duolingo's not just an app. It's a movement, nay, a lifestyle. One that's powered by a little green owl who's equal parts cheerleader and unhinged personal trainer, period. How does Duo make you feel when you log on to the app?

[Chelsea Charles]

Listen, the fact that Duo knows my name, it makes me feel a sense of community. It makes me feel a sense of they duo.

[Amanda Montell]

Right?

[Chelsea Charles]

Don't gender the gender Duo. Duo has a responsibility to make sure that I have endless education. And, I don't know, I kind of live for that.

[Amanda Montell]

Totally. It's like when we recorded our labubu episode, you were talking about how you had a Tamagotchi as a kid, but you are almost duos Tamagotchi. He has to keep your mind alive.

[Chelsea Charles]

They keep me fed with knowledge.

[Amanda Montell]

Duo transcends anything earthly. He's above culties. Just get ready because you're gonna learn so much more about how the Duolingo mascot came to be from our guest. It's fascinating. Some people might still be unconvinced that Duolingo could resemble a cult, but, Chelsea, I feel like you could help with some of this analysis just out of the gate, because when you start picking Duolingo apart, you're like, oh, it's cultier than it seems.

[Chelsea Charles]

So with Duolingo, the devotion is real. People who have kept their Duolingo streaks going for over thousands of days is like a sacred ritual. My mother in law. My mother in law has, like, a very, very long Duolingo Spanish streak, which I think is just insane. But kudos to her.

[Amanda Montell]

Good for her. Honestly, like, whatever's keeping people off Instagram, in my opinion, or like, I don't know, as long as they're not on, like, an incel forum, I'm starting to feel like maybe it's fine.

[Chelsea Charles]

You're right.

[Amanda Montell]

But fanatical nonetheless. I mean, does she get outside?

[Chelsea Charles]

Oh, yeah. She's. Oh, my God. So active. We're going to talk about rituals a little later, but it has become super ritualistic for her. So, like, at the top of the day, she does duolingo. It's become as much a part of her morning as coffee or brushing her teeth. But she's extremely, like, active outside and does all the things. And while there isn't a huge benefit similar to your morning crossword puzzle, I just think it's a great way to keep her mind active. But I fully agree with you. It's not a language app, but it's language themed.

[Amanda Montell]

It's language themed.

[Chelsea Charles]

It's language coded. Yes. Yes.

[Amanda Montell]

That is so funny. It's like literally just a language coded iPhone game. And if people could think of it that way, then I think maybe that would peel back the veil a little bit on the cult.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montell]

If that makes sense. And I guess that's what this whole episode is attempting to do.

[Chelsea Charles]

Absolutely. One of the most fascinating parts of Duel's culty energy is the way that it fosters a sense of community through competition. There are ledger boards that you can build with strangers on the Internet, but also close friends and family where you can kind of nudge each other. Where if you see someone that's a part of your community that you've built, missed a day. So it's not just dual that's kind of antagonizing you to jump on the app, but it's people that you actually know and are in community with that's like, hey, you missed the day. Get on your zoom. You're not on your zoom.

[Amanda Montell]

Oh, God. We Americans, we thrive on shame.

[Chelsea Charles]

We do. We live for shame.

[Amanda Montell]

There's something to these word games. Adopting the model of cult fitness, you know, it feels like peloton for people who want to sit down. Yeah, people are also super addicted to wordle.

[Chelsea Charles]

Girl, I.

[Amanda Montell]

Are you into it?

[Chelsea Charles]

Well, no. So, okay, you got to understand these things that we did to keep ourselves busy initially during COVID all were like hand in hand. Like I said, it was community. So everyone was on Duolingo at the same time. Everyone was doing work. Wordle at the same damn time. So I may have dipped my toe into the New York Times, wordle and the app of Wordle.

[Amanda Montell]

No, same. You're absolutely right. That's true. And you know, we'll talk about this a little later in the interview, but during times when you can't see your family or you're really busy and you're not connecting with your friends as much, apps like Duolingo allow you to stay connected, which again, has literally nothing to do with language learning and everything to do with these other things that attract people to culty groups, for better and for worse. Like a desire for connection, a desire for belonging, a desire to feel like you're doing something good for your mind, for your soul. And that is what Duolingo is. The question is, has it gotten a little too cultish for comfort? So to help determine that, we are thrilled to introduce our guest, but not until after a break where we're going to hear from some of our cult followed sponsors that make the show possible. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform where professionals, entrepreneurs, artists, podcasters can stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just starting out or managing a growing brand, Squarespace makes it super easy to create a beautiful website, engage with your audience, and sell absolutely anything from products to content to even your valuable time. I have personally been a Squarespace user for going on five years now. Sounds like a cult.com is a proud Squarespace website. And you do not have to be a web developer to use Squarespace to create something truly beautiful. And that is thanks to many of their Features including their design intelligence which combines two decades of industry leading design expertise with cutting edge AI technology. Squarespace Payments also makes it incredibly simple to set up a way to sell things online through a subscription model or one time payments. You just get set up with a few clicks and then your customers can pay however they want, whether it's whether it's ACH Direct Deposit or Klarna or Apple Pay. I also love that Squarespace makes it easy to set up a charity online. If you're trying to raise money, do a fundraiser. You can do that on a Squarespace website. Head to squarespace.com for a free trial and when you're ready to Launch, go to squarespace.com cult to save 10% on your first purchase of a website or domain. This episode is brought to you by Lifelock.

[Zaria Parvez]

When you visit the doctor, you probably.

[Amanda Montell]

Hand over your insurance, your ID and contact details. It's just one of the many places that has your personal info and if any of them accidentally expose it, you.

[Zaria Parvez]

Could be at risk for identity theft. Lifelock monitors millions of data points a second. If you become a victim, they'll fix.

[Amanda Montell]

It, guaranteed or your money back. Save up to 40% your first [e-mail] podcast terms apply. Joining us today is none other than Zaria Parvez, the mastermind behind Duolingo's wildly viral social media presence as the global social media manager. Can you believe it? She helped transform Duo from a sweet little study buddy into a full blown cultural icon and arguably one of the cultiest mascots in the Zeitgeist today. Zaria, welcome to Sounds like a Cult.

[Zaria Parvez]

Thank you for having me. Love being part of a culture.

[Amanda Montell]

Would you like ever get a Duolingo tattoo that just came for me that's.

[Zaria Parvez]

Like, I think the epitome of like what every brand person wants, you know. I unfortunately cannot commit to anything because having something on my body forever, I don't know, I just can't valid.

[Chelsea Charles]

That's real.

[Zaria Parvez]

But I love a cult, so I don't know, maybe.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah, there are other ways. There are other ways and if it gets really bad, then you'll have something permanent on your body whether you want it or not.

[Zaria Parvez]

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

[Amanda Montell]

Just kidding. Hopefully Duolingo doesn't get there, but I guess you're in the driver's seat, so it's really up to you.

[Chelsea Charles]

I do have to say I opened my Duolingo app a few minutes before jumping on and Duo had this little message and they were like, am I dreaming? Chelsea, are you back?

[Zaria Parvez]

Stop Playing Stop.

[Chelsea Charles]

Duo loves me. We have a personal relationship.

[Amanda Montell]

Oh, to me, that sounded shady.

[Zaria Parvez]

Yeah, that's. That's how I process that.

[Amanda Montell]

So nice of you to show up.

[Zaria Parvez]

I feel like that was probably what they were going after, but I'm so happy, Chelsea, you saw it as lovely and nice. I'm gonna give them that feedback.

[Chelsea Charles]

I did. This is how you know I'm susceptible to a cult.

[Amanda Montell]

You're like, duo is love bombing me again. Who writes that copy? Zaria.

[Zaria Parvez]

So we have a product team that actually does a push notification. So they've been doing unhinged notifications even before I, like, joined. And then they like, kind of took over the app in different touch points, especially when people fall off and we resurrect a user, which is what you literally call it.

[Amanda Montell]

Resurrect.

[Zaria Parvez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're a resurrected user. Thank you.

[Chelsea Charles]

Shrop the Polyglot Redeemer.

[Amanda Montell]

Oh, my God. Resurrected. That is over the.

[Zaria Parvez]

I told you.

[Amanda Montell]

It is a cult.

[Zaria Parvez]

It's a cult.

[Amanda Montell]

Oh, I know. The listeners have been begging for you to come reveal what is wrong with them. Okay. Wow. I am so fucking pumped to get into it. But first, Zaria, could you give a little bit of background? How are you recruited not only into this cult as a member, but as like low key inner circle?

[Zaria Parvez]

Okay. So I graduated university in 2020 for University of Oregon and I needed a job. So my goal in life is to retire. Like, I've always just. I hate the fact that we have to work. Obviously we're all there. And I was like. Because I started advertising, you could either go into like advertising agencies and deal the big grind, all of that, or you can move to Pittsburgh to a random startup that has some brand love and cruise and work a 9 to 5. So as an exhausted 21 year old, I was like, I need to figure out what's conducive for lifestyle. And that's honestly why I applied to Duo. So Duolingo was actually the only job I applied to out of college and they gave me a job and I was like, great. And like, the main reason was just I loved being an npc. I really wanted to be in a spot where I could just like cook in a back corner and nobody would tell me I couldn't or could do things. Like it would just be open. So I felt like I had that. And it was like enough of a startup at the time that there was just space and the community was crazy. Like, I knew that it was like a recipe for success because people are already Obsessed. I just had to bring that to social essentially.

[Amanda Montell]

You mean the community of users?

[Zaria Parvez]

Yeah, people are obsessed with their streaks. They're always making fan art. If you type in Lily fan art, you're gonna get some weird shit. And so there's a lot of things that are just like, people were already invigorated. I just had to bring that energy over to social.

[Amanda Montell]

Oh my God. What is the vibe at Duolingo like on the team is everybody. We're like, what?

[Zaria Parvez]

It's pretty funny. So I was the first Gen Z hire. So our team was like me, myself and I. In the beginning, I was the only social person. Pretty much like each of them, I was like, this is what it's like. Like Gen Z is like, this is what the Internet can be. And since then, now my social team has about four people. And it's pretty interesting. The social team runs pretty young Gen Z. While like, not the elders, but like the other part of the team is working on other stuff and tend to have like more experience and other. I don't know, you know what I mean? Like they do stuff outside of social. It's just as important for the. But yes, everyone is always up to shit. You guys only see the approved ideas and I wish there was a day where I could do a PowerPoint of all the rejected ideas. And those are like fucking spicy.

[Amanda Montell]

And the ideas are basically to get people hype as fuck about duolingo learning language.

[Zaria Parvez]

Yep, exactly.

[Amanda Montell]

Well, Chelsea, I don't think it's to get people hype as fuck about learning language. I think it's to get people hype as fuck about Duolingo.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yeah, okay, that's fair.

[Zaria Parvez]

You know, saying the COVID up is we're a mission driven brand and we're helping you teach a language. So therefore we have the agency to do whatever the fuck we want.

[Chelsea Charles]

I live for this.

[Amanda Montell]

I'm so excited you're here and that you're down to clown with us about this.

[Zaria Parvez]

I mean, it's crazy. I think the whole thing is like satire, right? Like the fact that we're able to do all of this with this big green owl and like just the origin stories of it is also just crazy. My CEO told us like he did not believe in TikTok at the time. He's like, I don't know if there's potential here. We don't have like resources. So I was like, okay, bet. So I was like, there's a crusty owl suit that HR uses for like team events. If I can think of something Can I just create it within my own self and post it? And they were like, okay, sure. And that took off. It was just pretty much a duo just making fun of the Internet and then people becoming obsessed with him as, like a creator influencer because it was satire. Cause it's fucking ridiculous to see a crusty owl, like, do the trends that we do.

[Chelsea Charles]

That's interesting.

[Amanda Montell]

I am speechless.

[Chelsea Charles]

I'm making a discovery right now because before I thought that Duo was our charismatic cult leader. But now with further research. Zaria, you are the culty charismatic leader. You took the Krusty Owl out of the office, made them twerk online. You are the mastermind. You're the cult leader.

[Zaria Parvez]

That is the biggest honor and greatest title anyone has ever given me. Write about me in your next book, girl Coltish. Add me into that. That is a dream.

[Amanda Montell]

You know what? Someone is gonna write the Duolingo biopic Expose. There's too many on Steve Jobs.

[Chelsea Charles]

We need to talk about Duo. He's not just a mascot anymore. He's a full blown icon. And there's something strangely charismatic about his wide eyed green owl that has people projecting all kinds of meaning onto him. So was Duo the owl always the goal to push this doctrine of language?

[Zaria Parvez]

Okay. I mean, yes and no. The origin stories of Duo. Duo is green because one of our co founders hates the color green and they made him green just to troll him. He existed because, like, people love learning languages from, like a person versus a computer. So they were like, okay, if we bring Duo in, bring the character in. But there was no desire to make Duo the face of our marketing. Like, that was. I wish I could be like. I envisioned it and saw it like, it was just a lot of testing and learning as we were going. But they did see the value in having a character teach a language and make it more fun and gamified. But it wasn't like, Duo's gonna be our icon in five years once this new platform comes out and all of this.

[Amanda Montell]

That makes complete sense to me.

[Chelsea Charles]

I would say, though. Cause Rosetta Stone doesn't hit the same because it does not have a cult leader. We need someone to be able to relate to.

[Amanda Montell]

Well, look, if you go into a ch, like a beautiful Catholic church surrounded by stained glass, and there are saints and apostles and Jesus is there on his cross and he's got his abs. I think Catholicism hits the way that Duolingo hits because of the imagery. Okay. Because of the characters. When you go into that church, for me, I don't want to learn about religion at all, I guess. No, I want to learn about it, but whatever. You know what I'm saying? I am not going to want to believe the same unless there is imagery, unless there are faces, the characters bring it to life. And when you have this opportunistically created character that was not masterminded from the start, but that was hitting in a way, and clearly resonating with the community, as you say, of course you're gonna want to run with that, even if it started as a joke or an accident or whatever.

[Zaria Parvez]

100%. And they developed an entire cast of characters, and he had a whole studios and content team that worked on this entire cast now. And those are our next goals. How do you make Lily the emo girl popular? How do you build that duo love across this world and lore build and make sitcoms and all this stuff within these characters? So you're onto something.

[Amanda Montell]

No, it's a religion.

[Chelsea Charles]

It is.

[Amanda Montell]

They are the 12 disciples.

[Zaria Parvez]

That's our next campaign. Thank you.

[Amanda Montell]

Oh, you're so welcome. I'll invoice you later.

[Chelsea Charles]

So speaking earlier about the fandom associated with duos, specifically, like, tattoos, fan accounts, and memes, what is it like watching a language learning app inspire that type of devotion?

[Zaria Parvez]

It's wild, dude. Like, I actually never thought it would get to this point. And I think what's crazy about it is, like, the tension of it. I feel like if we were another brand doing this, it might be kind of expected because big brands have big marketing budgets and all these things. But I think the fact that it is an education app doing this stuff, that tension makes it like, holy shit. And then people get excited about it. Seeing that come to light, it's just so freaking human, you know? Like, I always laugh how humans love fireworks and bright lights. Like, it's just so stupid. We're so stupid.

[Amanda Montell]

I was joking about this tooth of July.

[Zaria Parvez]

We're all like, wow. And, like, what?

[Chelsea Charles]

No.

[Zaria Parvez]

And it's the. I feel like it's the same way. Like, it's like that tension is such a human thing to be obsessed with. We're complex beings, but when it comes to, like, just situational irony, we're like, oh, my God. God, that's hilarious. And I think. I think that's the beauty of is.

[Amanda Montell]

Duolingo is a cult of situational irony. Like, that is its voice. It's like David Berg of the Children of God's whole voice was talking about Jesus in a way that was, like, crass and full of cursing. And people found that tension really compelling and radical and subversive. It was abusive and fucked. But like, if you stripped away all of that, the juxtaposition of two contrast tones, like people were vibing with it. You're so right about that. And I bet too, it immediately feels more trustworthy and more grassroots. Like, we're all in on the joke that it's an education app and not like Nike 100%.

[Zaria Parvez]

And I feel like because we're also such a mission driven brand, like make education accessible. People are like, yeah, they're allowed to be crazy. They're doing that. Like, that I think also has something to do with it of like Gen Z wanting good brands. Yeah.

[Amanda Montell]

Actually I am curious. Like, obviously more sinister cults start as mission driven.

[Zaria Parvez]

You said it, I didn't say it.

[Amanda Montell]

And like, spreading multilingualism around the world feels like an amazing mission for a cult. You know, it's like, some are about poverty, some are about spiritual transcendence. This one is about multilingualism. And look, I'm here for it. How do you think that missional act aspect keeps people in?

[Zaria Parvez]

I feel like it makes you feel good about yourself. Like, that's literally what it is. Like, yeah, I'm stalking do on TikTok, but also, like, it's a language learning app, so I might be learning something by watching this content and scrolling. Oh, I'm learning. I learned a language. Like those small things of like, your streak gamifying. It feels like you're productively using your time. So you're like, okay, like, I'll scroll a little bit more on this channel. I'll keep going. Like it's a language learning app.

[Amanda Montell]

Yes. Oh, my God. It is a way to feel productive and good about yourself. But, like, we have to talk about the push note of notifications and the streaks and the whatnot. Because Duolingo users are obsessed with their streaks in a way that completely transcends anything having to do with mastering vocabulary and grammar. Some people have literal years of uninterrupted practice. What is it about the streak system that you think taps into people's psyche so deeply? And can you spill a little tea about how the push notification magic perpetuates that cycle?

[Zaria Parvez]

Yeah, 100%. I mean, it's literally based off of gamified apps. So we have these hooks and these things like the streak to keep you coming back the same way like Candy Crush does or like Clash of Clans. And so they've managed to put those mechanisms in that literally get you addicted to it. And like, you Want to see your streak go up. And all of a sudden, if you made somebody disappointed and they put your name in and insert, like, insert username here, and it says, Chelsea. You're like, they know about me. And that's like the push notifications. They notice a product team started doing that as a. And then they saw resurrection increase a lot. And they were like, wait a minute. If we personalize it, if we are pushy and we're passive aggressive, which is not what normal push notifications did at the time, then people will come back. Cause it's personal. It feels like a personal attack. And now you're saying, I'm not productive, and you're saying I'm not learning, and I'm trying to be a good person and I'm trying to learn. So here I am. I'm going to go back and just do it. And it's only five minutes a day. It'll totally be fine. And it's like all these things that are just, like, humans love fireworks. Like, it goes back to that. Like, we're just, like, kind of predictable in a lot of ways. And you can gamify that and make that into a productive business.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montell]

Chelsea, how did you. How did you feel today when you, like, were resurrected?

[Chelsea Charles]

I honestly felt like Duo loved me, but I also did feel a little sense of shame associated with that. And I feel like there's a little sunk cost fallacy, like, sprinkled into that, which is, obviously, we know one of the main tenants of many of the cults that we talk about, but it is that idea that you have invested so much time. And so you decide, okay, I'm going to keep investing this time, and dang, if I miss one day, I'm going to mess up my streak. I'm going to not learn this language. So.

[Amanda Montell]

And you can think the investment is for you, but it's equally, if not more, for Duolingo. I mean, it is like a business at the end of the day. But I do wonder, you know, we're talking a little bit about the mission aspect. We're talking about. About shame. We're talking about making you feel a little love bombed.

[Zaria Parvez]

My PR manager is gonna love this.

[Chelsea Charles]

Oh.

[Zaria Parvez]

She's like, none of the talking points. And I'm like, it's fine.

[Amanda Montell]

You know what? The brands that get it, get it. I'll tell you right now, Peloton loved our Peloton episode. I was like, really good.

[Zaria Parvez]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montell]

Green flag. But obviously we're being cheeky and.

[Zaria Parvez]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montell]

But there is something very real about the fact that duolingo has become a ritual for people and a real, like, moment in their everyday lives. Could you talk about how that ritual aspect might resemble even prayer for people? Like, how do you see it from your perspective?

[Zaria Parvez]

Yeah, I think it's that five minutes of screen time that just makes you feel better about yourself playing into that. Because, like, how many times are we hearing about screen time and mental health and we're wasting our time on social and we're doing all that. Like, I think it comes back to, like, I might not have control over anything in my life, but at least I can use these five minutes to be productive and hope it'll help me grow or help me be better. I can say, you know what? I learned a bit of a language today. It's like kind of like working out in a way too. Like, it's a way to control, like, how you feel about yourself. And if it's from like a cute guy, like, the fucking owl's so cute. I work there. And I'm not just saying, like, sometimes I get so annoyed, but you just can't stop looking at it. And I think that's actually why it has even a bigger appeal than our other cast of characters, because it's just like a freaking cute owl. And so when you just combine these things together, it just makes you feel like you're doing something good for the world in a way as like, I'm learning a language so I can communicate with others and be empathetic and meet them where they're at versus them having to meet me where I'm at. There's just so much propaganda you can add to it, you know, like it just can keep going.

[Amanda Montell]

Thank you for saying that.

[Zaria Parvez]

I know, I'm like, I feel like I'm a propaganda machine right now.

[Amanda Montell]

The self awareness is admirable. Like we stand.

[Zaria Parvez]

Yeah, there you go.

[Amanda Montell]

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[Chelsea Charles]

So Zaria, one of the most fascinating parts of Duolingo's culty energy is the way it builds community, which is a little about what you were talking about just a second ago. Through control, through competition between the XP races, ledger boards and public shame for falling behind, there is a definite sense of social pressure built into the platform. In what ways does the app create a sense of community or even competition that can keeps people coming back?

[Zaria Parvez]

Yeah, I think it's definitely like the leaderboards, they have that sense of like where are you placed on that? Then there's like the friend streak where you can nudge a friend. Even this whole concept of people blocking their boyfriend everywhere, including Duolingo, there's actually like these parts of the app that feel very community driven. It's a thing I didn't know that. And they were like I blocked him everywhere. Like that is common. Like you will see those tweets often. And then we've linked it with our social presence. So now there's like the community of the app that's like obsessed with the app and there's a community that's obsessed with a bird and we kind of like keep them in cahoots with each other. So in February we actually killed Duo and we made this huge campaign over the death of Duo and it like blew up in a lot of places. But that was Connected to the actual, like, app icon that showed, like, a dead duo with, like, X's on his eyes. So we were, like, bridging these two worlds together where, like, honestly, like, people on social, the most they talk about us is either they hate language learning and they hate their Spanish teacher. They think think that we're stupid, or, like, they actually accidentally tag us as dua lipa. Like, that. That is the most sentiment we get. Like, they don't. Like, they don't care about, like, being empathetic learners, while, like, people in the app probably care a little bit more about that. So, like, we try to bring these worlds together through these different communities and, like, find links with friends, streak, but also, like, our social commenting and how we comment on things and the campaigns we do.

[Amanda Montell]

Is there, like, a duolingo cult follower type or multiple types of types? Like, who are these people? You know, it's like the QAnon yoga moms. And you're like, yeah, we can break that down. We've done episodes recently on, like, plant parents and, like, horse girls. Like, there are just certain cults where you're like, no wonder you were into this. Is there a duolingo profile?

[Zaria Parvez]

Oh, my God. That's actually such a good thought exercise. I feel like it's weird because it's across a lot of people. So you have, like, the old grandpas that literally think they're making a bird bird sad. Like, they actually think there's a live bird. They have to, like, recover it.

[Amanda Montell]

They're just, like, bird watching men, literally.

[Zaria Parvez]

But, like, actually, then there's people who think it's like, a dinosaur and don't get why the kids are into it these days. And then there's like, the little, like, teenage boys that you're like, I feel weird that I'm even talking to you on social. But here we are, and it's like the obsession. We went to vidcon and they had us as a featured creator, and Duo was, like, the first mascot to do that. And I was like, this is the first time we're gonna meet our fans in real life. What is it? And I was like, I'm a fucking creep. They're all, like, teenagers upset. And I was like, wow, this is who our audience is. But it's like, actually a ton of, like, middle schoolers that are obsessed with the brand, and they'll still be like, hate your app, but love duo. Hate learning a language, but just love your content. So it's like two different worlds, but there should be an archetype I just don't know what it is yet.

[Chelsea Charles]

That's so interesting.

[Amanda Montell]

So much about Duolingo has again, very little to do with, like, language learning.

[Zaria Parvez]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montell]

It's like an immersive experience.

[Zaria Parvez]

Yeah. There's so many levels of it even now. Like, they're not just doing language learning. Like, they literally have chess now. And then they had math and then they have music. Music. And then they used to have, like, Duolingo ABC for kids. Like, it's like, how do we, like, take over education and make it a cult but make it fun?

[Amanda Montell]

No, honestly, like, starting with the youth is a very effective cult tactic.

[Zaria Parvez]

Wow. I didn't even know I was a cult leader. Oh, my God. Yay. You, You.

[Amanda Montell]

It could be anyone. We're so proud of you.

[Zaria Parvez]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Amanda Montell]

Duolingo is technically, technically tech company, right?

[Zaria Parvez]

Yeah. We are so at all of these.

[Amanda Montell]

Tech companies, there have to be internal conversations about the ethics of it. But ultimately, like, this is America, baby. Like, we're in the attention economy. If eyeballs and streaks and fanaticism and shame is profitable, what incentive is there to roll it back 100?

[Zaria Parvez]

And like, I remember when we first started doing it, there were people being like, your language learning app, get your butt off the Super Bowl. Like, why is Duo's butt on this stage? Or like, why is this happening? And I remember they're like, it works. Like, we don't know what to tell you. Like, every time there's a viol video, we're getting new users. So, like, keep shaking that ass mascot. Like, I don't know, like, part of it is, it does work. And there's the level of brand safety too, right. Of like, how far do you push it? Like, where is the line? And I think the mantra our team's kind of taken is like, you don't know where the line is unless you cross it sometimes. And that has allowed us to understand, like, in this world of hyper consumerism and late stage capitalism, these are the lines that a social media owl star can take. And so it's been a really weird ride too. It's just weird because you're like, you just don't expect the things that people to be okay with are okay with or the things they're not okay okay with. To not be okay with.

[Amanda Montell]

That is such a good point. Like, what a morally chaotic time. I mean, it is wild to have my, like, paranoias confirmed that you really can make a call out of anything these days.

[Zaria Parvez]

There you go. It's true.

[Amanda Montell]

Even an innocent language learning app With a wee owl. You know who the owl reminds me of a little bit? Is that. Was it a Microsoft Word jumping paperclip?

[Zaria Parvez]

Oh, I know what you're talking about. I've seen, like, 90s nostalgia stuff of it. It's like the. With the eyes on it.

[Amanda Montell]

Yes. Do you remember that bouncy paper clip who was like, that's not how you spell that.

[Zaria Parvez]

Yes.

[Amanda Montell]

It's giving that. Which. Like, the sweetness, you know, it's just that. On steroids in 2025, for sure. Okay, we have just a few more questions for you. So. So Duo himself is so obviously anthropomorphized, absurdified. He's a clown, He's a dancer. He's a punisher. A loving, omniscient presence. He's a harbinger of doom. I don't know. Like, he's so much. Does Duolingo's staff feel like Duo is real? Like, do you ever feel like you're parenting a little cult mascot? I don't know. Like, who is Duo to you?

[Zaria Parvez]

So what's interesting is, like, the reason why Duo was able to blow up the way he did, especially in this past, like, five years, is I think it comes actually down also to the people we hire here. And not, like, I don't know if it's up to you, if it's a bad or good thing, but I think there is the quintessential Duolingo employee. And, like, we actually are, like, really insane about who we hire. The process is crazy. We have an insane culture. People are quirky here and they're weird. That is actually, like, an inherent nature of who we are. You can very much be like, yeah, that's a Duolingo employee. Or, like, no, that person's not. Like, it's just. It's going to be hard for them to fit in here. It's not like an exclusive thing in that sense, but there is a personality. And even when I was hiring, like, on the social team, I can tell within, like, the first two to three minutes of, you're going to be successful here or not, based off of your ideas and how you pitch work and who you are. And it's like, it's very interesting. Cause I actually think a lot of companies have it, but, like, Duos now used it in a sense, to our benefit of, like, this is our Persona on social. When we act this way and have people who think this way, it actually builds our lore in our world. So let's try to find thinkers who know how to expand on this Versus like super traditional marketers or think completely differently. And that's sense. So I think there is a Duolingo employee kind of prototype and we even have like a Duolingo handbook which we released, which is like about everything about working at Duolingo and all the things that go into being a duo is what we call ourselves. So I don't know. I think yes, I think we are a cult. But that's fine. We're all, we're all cults in our own way, right? That's what they tell themselves, right?

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Charles]

I lose.

[Amanda Montell]

Oh, that is so. That is so fascinating because to your point, Gen Z, I feel like in general is more suspicious of your co workers being. Being your family and your workplace being your home or whatever. But because there is so much inherent irony at Duolingo, you could kind of get away with all the same shit.

[Zaria Parvez]

I also think it's very much like there's no double entendre. We're like, yeah, we are who we are. We're fucking crazy. Join. Like even like this handbook I'm talking about, it's literally like this entire document that our talent brand team, which is a team just meant to recruit duolingo talent and build the brand of what it means to work at Duolingo created. And it's a priority and it's a thing like we care about our duo duos and like the. In office culture, all of it is like super important. We have this thing called duiversary where like every year it's our birthday, so we all come and celebrate our birthday and there was always fun events. Like it's like a very duolingo type thing. And like this is my first job out of college, so I thought this was normal. And a lot of people like who are like multiple jobs in are like this is different. Like it's what it is. But it's like this is not how normal workplaces usually are. I think I got away with so much of building the brand because of I was okay with it almost. Or like they were okay with it too because I guess maybe I was part of the cult all along. But yeah, it's really interesting. Like it's crazy. Now you're making me like, like I'm like second guessing my dire life.

[Amanda Montell]

No, you're doing, you're doing everything right. You're in exactly the right place. But blink twice if you need us.

[Zaria Parvez]

Yeah, seriously. I'm like the safety sign. Yeah.

[Chelsea Charles]

So I have to share that during COVID I became crazy on Duolingo as Did a lot of people. I was heavy and in Spanish and French world, I had a very, very long streak. But it was also just a way for me to still remain productive. While I was not on anybody's set, not going to work and not going out to restaurants, it was just a way for me to kind of like build community. And I feel like with this kind of resurgence of political and social unrest, I think people are looking for community again. So what do you think is the emotional need in your opinion, that dual fills for people, People especially during isolating times.

[Zaria Parvez]

I almost feel like it's the light heartedness of it. Like I know we talked about a little bit earlier, but like that tension point of it just being like not what you'd think a language learning app to be a. It's like stable in a sense of like you can always access it, it's there, it's on your phone, it's free. That's also actually very big. The free app and the premium app, the content is the exact same. We don't actually want bars to like learning a language. Like you should maybe watch a couple ads, but like it'll be the same exact content across both. So I think that reliability and dependability and like access is like a big part of it where like it's not a really high barrier to entry kind of helped. And then I think again of it just being like we don't take ourselves seriously, which a lot of education, brands and institutions do. And I think people seeing that makes it almost feel like it's not as intimidating to learn a language or it's just more approachable. So really we're just authentic. I hate that word. But like it kind of. It kind of.

[Amanda Montell]

Sorry, it's such a trigger word for me completely. We all have them, but that makes a lot of sense. We're speaking very sensationally and hyperbolically right now about Duolingo. But I do think that there is something sincerely, very wholesome and equalizing about an app that at the end of the day is supposed to bridge linguistic barriers. That's underneath all of this. Even if it is just an iPhone game, it's an iPhone game that is trying to introduce people to new ideas and a new way of seeing the world in a very light hearted, low temperature way. Like it is hard for me and this is wild to say in these times, but it's hard for me to see a world in which there's some like huge controversy that kneecaps duolingo. Like it's just such. It's like an unproblematic fave.

[Zaria Parvez]

Yeah, exactly. And I. I think also with like, our popularity with, like, Gen Z, right? Like, they love that. They eat that shit up. They're just like, you' doing good. Like, okay, why not, like, one brand that's actually finally fucking doing good? Like, we can try to support them and, like, it makes them okay to be crazy and, like, cross these lines sometimes.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah. There's like Paul Rudd energy at Duo. Like, you know what I'm saying?

[Zaria Parvez]

Like, that's actually so funny because part of my pitch for our strategies, we used to think we were Trevor Noah, like, back in the day. And I was like, guys, we are Jojo Siwa. And the more we accept that and lean into that, the more engagement we will get. It's just the trick. Are fucking annoyed by us, but they're always interested. We're not as sexy as Trevor. No, we just aren't. And like, until we accept that, like, Right. You know, and I think that actually that was part of my pitch for, like, how we're going to frame our social and, like, build it out is like, we need to just lean into the meme and lean into us being JoJo. It's been an interesting shift also, like, if you see our content before 2020 on social, totally different. Very happy Earth day. Hey, this is some language that you can learn. And, like, it just wasn't resonating. Like, people didn't and enjoy it as much. So. Yeah.

[Amanda Montell]

Wow. Oh, my God. You're transforming hearts and minds. For better, for worse. I don't know, but slay.

[Chelsea Charles]

I'm obsessed. I also want to say, whoever's idea it was to do the podcast associated with Duo Baby, let me tell you something. So nicely done. I am obsessed. I read along with the transcriptions.

[Amanda Montell]

So deep.

[Chelsea Charles]

No, I'm not. No, I'm not.

[Zaria Parvez]

That's crazy because they actually sunsetted podcast casts, like, just a trigger word for.

[Amanda Montell]

Me, by the way, Zaria. To use sunset as a verb sends a shiver down my spine.

[Zaria Parvez]

Yum. But yeah, they, like. I mean, it's a nice corporate way of saying they killed it, but essentially, like, yeah, they were just like. There's people who are very deep into it and loved it. Like you, Chelsea. But there's also people who, like, didn't know it existed. So, like, oh, there's like, not much ROI here, but, like, I'm gonna tell the ex podcast team you said that. Cause they're gonna love to hear that.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yes, please, please. And then I have one final thing to Say, because I would be remiss if I didn't share because I chronically. No, no, no, it's not bad. It's not bad. On the duo team that's listening. You have Haitian creel, you have high Valerian, and you still don't have Louisiana Creole. And there has been a Reddit thread of like five years of people circling back saying, duolingo, please, please. So I'm, I'm just throwing my bid in.

[Amanda Montell]

Oh my God. Yes.

[Zaria Parvez]

I'm gonna send this to our CEO. Done.

[Chelsea Charles]

Okay, beautiful.

[Zaria Parvez]

I have zero power, but I'm gonna send that shit over.

[Amanda Montell]

Put in a word.

[Zaria Parvez]

Yeah, 100%.

[Chelsea Charles]

I had to plug it literally.

[Zaria Parvez]

The only like DMs from our CEO and me are like, take it fucking down. Or like, or like, or like you can't have a mascot giving birth. And I'm like, sorry, I'll send it over. What's it gonna do? Ignore my slack.

[Amanda Montell]

Exactly. Slack it over, Chelsea. Love that. Always feel free to put in a word with our culty ass guest. Yes. Incredible. Zaria, you're a dream. Thank you so much for joining this episode of Sounds Like a Cult. If folks want to keep up with you and your work, where can they do that?

[Zaria Parvez]

I'm such a corporate girly, but okay. Actually, so I'm on LinkedIn like hella. But it's because I didn't realize Substack existed. So I write a LinkedIn newsletter and it's fun, but I'm trying to actually port it over to Substack eventually. But for now, LinkedIn is probably, probably where you see all my crazy insights and the truth behind what goes on in these doors of Duolingo.

[Amanda Montell]

Incredible. Thank you so much.

[Zaria Parvez]

Yeah, thank you for having me.

[Amanda Montell]

Okay, Chelsea, it's time out of our three cult categories. Live your life, watch your back and get the fuck out. Which do you think the Cult of Duolingo falls into?

[Chelsea Charles]

Okay, listen, I am Live your life with duo A thousand percent. Live your life. I will say if you are interested in learning a language though, however you should maybe supplement it with a little something different. Maybe some one on one tutoring. Maybe do some Rosetta Stone. It actually you can go to the your public library and you can rent Rosetta Stone for the free ski. Don't just rely on the Cult of Duo.

[Amanda Montell]

Yeah, no, you're so right. It's a Live youe Life. But I think one of the cultiest things about it is the false promise that this is an app for language learning. It's not. It's just an iPhone game. And so if you want to play an iPhone game, live your life. If you want to learn a language, find a meetup in your city where you can go speak, speak, I don't know, Esperanto with some other Angelenos or wherever you live, you know. And that's free too. So yeah, I've loved this episode. I'm so glad that Victoria, among many other listeners, suggested it. We read all of your suggestions, y'.

[Zaria Parvez]

All.

[Amanda Montell]

If you comment on our Instagram, especially if you email [e-mail] we take them to heart. Well, that is our show.

[Chelsea Charles]

Thanks so much for listening.

[Amanda Montell]

Stick around for a new cult next week, but in the meantime, stay culty.

[Chelsea Charles]

But not too culty.

[Amanda Montell]

Sounds Like a Cult was created by Amanda Montel and edited by Jordan Moore of the Pod Cabin. This episode was hosted by Amanda Montel and Chelsea Charles. This episode was produced by Chelsea Charles Charles. Our managing producer is Katie Epperson. Our theme music is by Casey Cole. If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave it 5 stars on Spotify or Apple podcasts. It really helps the show a lot. And if you like this podcast, feel free to check out my book the Language of Fanaticism, which inspired the show. You might also enjoy my other books, the Age of Magical Notes on Modern Irrationality and A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language. Thanks as well to our network studio 71 and be sure to follow the Sounds Like a Cult cult on Instagram for all the discourse at Sounds Like a Cult Pod or support us on Patreon to listen to the show ad [e-mail] Sounds like a cult.

[Chelsea Charles]

You say you'll never join the Navy. Never climb Mount Fuji on a port visit or break the sound barrier. Joining the Navy sounds crazy. Saying never actually is. Learn [e-mail] America's Navy forged by the sea.

[Zaria Parvez]

You say you'll never join the Navy. That living on a submarine would be too hard. You'd never power a whole ship with nuclear energy, never bring a patient back to life or play the national anthem for its sold out trap.

[Chelsea Charles]

Joining the Navy sounds crazy.

[Zaria Parvez]

Saying never actually is. Start your [e-mail] America's Navy forged by the sea.

[Amanda Montell]

How do you make an Airbnb a VRBO picture a vacation rental with a host. The host is dragging your family on a tour of the kitchen, the bathroom, the upstairs bathroom, the downstairs bedroom, and the TV room, which, surprise, is where you can watch tv. Now imagine there's no host giving you a tour, because there's never any hosts at all. Ever. Voila. You've got yourself a vrbo. Want a vacation that's completely and totally host free? Make it a vrbo.