The Cult of Nickelodeon

Summary

Summary of "The Cult of Nickelodeon" Episode from Sounds Like A Cult

Release Date: February 4, 2025

In the episode titled "The Cult of Nickelodeon," hosts Amanda Montel, Chelsea Charles, and Reese Oliver delve deep into the phenomenon of Nickelodeon, exploring whether the beloved children's network exhibits cult-like characteristics. Through nostalgic reminiscing, critical analysis, and confronting dark revelations, the trio paints a comprehensive picture of Nickelodeon's multifaceted influence on its young audience and the industry's inner workings.

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1. Nostalgia and Iconic Nickelodeon Moments

The discussion begins with the hosts sharing fond memories of Nickelodeon's golden era, highlighting its array of iconic shows that left indelible marks on 90s and early 2000s children.

• Chelsea Charles (02:22): "We're talking Nickelodeon, the kids TV show network best known for its '90s and early 2000s hits, including all that Kenan and Kel, Clarissa Explains It All, The Amanda Show..."

Amanda Montel echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the network's vast catalog of beloved programs that fostered a strong sense of community and loyalty among its viewers.

• Amanda Montel (02:22): "There are so many bangers, so iconic."

2. Cultish Rituals: The Slime

A significant portion of the episode focuses on Nickelodeon's signature green slime, dissecting its role as a ritualistic symbol that both captivates and coerces its young audience.

• Amanda Montel (22:44): "But it was so sort of calculated of him to set up the vibe at Nickelodeon as an exclusive place for kids as an excuse to prevent potential witnesses of abuse, AKA the parents from being present."

The hosts draw parallels between the slime rituals and initiation practices found in actual cults, suggesting that these acts create a sense of belonging while establishing a power dynamic between the network and its audience.

• Reese Oliver (26:49): "I have attended a Kids Choice Awards... it was very culty. It was just like this sea of little children and their very stressed-out parents."

3. The Leadership and Abuse under Dan Schneider

The conversation takes a darker turn as the hosts examine the role of Dan Schneider, former high-ranking producer and creator of numerous Nickelodeon shows, in fostering an environment conducive to abuse.

• Amanda Montel (31:30): "Dan Schneider has come under fire for allegations of exploitation and mistreatment of young actors."

Reese Oliver discusses the "Quiet on Set" documentary, which shed light on Schneider's inappropriate behaviors, including verbal abuse and creating suggestive scenarios for child actors.

• Reese Oliver (36:44): "She's like fully a Spanish music artist who goes by Drake Campania now... She was accused of doing horrible things, but hurt people. Hurt people."

The hosts highlight how Schneider's authority and control led to a culture of fear, making it difficult for victims to come forward.

• Amanda Montel (32:15): "The culture of fear and inability to dissent or bring in outside witnesses in the form of parents, that culture that Dan Schneider created is what gave way to Brian Peck being able to get away with these abuses for so many years."

4. Diversity Issues within Nickelodeon

Addressing the network's attempt at inclusivity, the hosts critique Nickelodeon's sporadic and often superficial efforts to incorporate cultural diversity into its programming.

• Chelsea Charles (39:42): "Despite being a progressive media powerhouse, several accounts have alleged that Nickelodeon lacks cultural diversity in their programming."

They reference Keke Palmer's experiences of marginalization and the problematic representation behind the scenes, pointing out the lack of diversity among writers and producers.

• Chelsea Charles (41:23): "From the quiet onset documentary, every single person in those writers rooms was a white man. And when they finally welcomed two women into the writers room, they offered to pay them one salary for both of them."

5. The Decline and Current State of Nickelodeon

Reflecting on the aftermath of Schneider's departure and the ongoing controversies, the hosts discuss Nickelodeon's waning influence and the absence of its former cultural prominence.

• Amanda Montel (46:47): "I can't name a single Nickelodeon show that's on the air currently. It doesn't seem to have the same place in the zeitgeist that it used to."

Reese Oliver observes the network's shift towards reruns of shows like SpongeBob and Paw Patrol, signifying a decline from its once vibrant and innovative programming slate.

• Reese Oliver (46:35): "Nickelodeon as it exists is getting the fuck out itself. It's dying."

6. Conclusion and Verdict

Wrapping up the episode, the hosts categorize Nickelodeon within their cult framework, ultimately deciding it fits into the "Get the Fuck Out" category due to its destructive practices under Schneider's leadership.

• Chelsea Charles (49:57): "It's giving 'Get the fuck out' of the..."

• Amanda Montel (50:12): "I think Nickelodeon in its heyday... was powerful, influential, gross, exploitative."

They reflect on the lasting psychological impacts on former child actors and the broader implications for the entertainment industry, advocating for stricter safeguards and ethical standards in children's programming.

• Amanda Montel (55:13): "How the fuck is it not customary for there to be child therapists on the set of children's TV shows?"

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Notable Quotes:

• Amanda Montel (00:00): "I just cannot believe that this objectively revolting substance was able to be harnessed by Nickelodeon into something that little kids wanted to happen to them."

• Reese Oliver (26:49): "I have attended a Kids Choice Awards... it was very culty. It was just like this sea of little children and, like, their very stressed out parents."

• Chelsea Charles (34:24): "Are you trying to say that the slime is an innuendo?"

• Amanda Montel (49:57): "Which category do you think the cult of Nickelodeon falls into?"

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Final Thoughts

"The Cult of Nickelodeon" is a compelling episode that navigates the complex landscape of childhood nostalgia intertwined with unsettling truths. By dissecting the network's rituals, leadership failures, and diversity shortcomings, the hosts provide a sobering analysis of how a once-cherished brand can harbor dark undercurrents. This episode serves as both a homage to the cultural impact of Nickelodeon and a cautionary tale about the responsibilities of media institutions towards their youngest audiences.

Transcript

[Amanda Montel]

The views expressed on this episode, as with all episodes of Sounds Like a Cult, are solely host opinions and quoted allegations. The content here should not be taken as indisputable fact. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. I just cannot believe that this objectively revolting substance was able to be harnessed by Nickelodeon into something that little kids wanted to happen to them.

[Chelsea Charles]

Are you trying to say that the slime is an innuendo?

[Reese Oliver]

It starts as some funny little penny t shirts and some silly little foot jokes and then it is straight up psychological trauma for these actors.

[Amanda Montel]

This is Sounds Like a Cult, A show about the modern day cults we all follow. I'm your host Amanda Montel and I'm an author.

[Chelsea Charles]

And I'm your co host Chelsea Charles. And I'm an unscripted TV producer.

[Reese Oliver]

And I'm also your co host Reese Oliver. Sounds like a Cold Squad coordinator.

[Amanda Montel]

Every week on this show we discuss a different zeitgeisty group that puts the cult in culture. From Trad wives to Stanley Cups. To try and answer the big question.

[Chelsea Charles]

This group sounds like a cult. But is it really?

[Reese Oliver]

And if so, which of our culty categories does it fall into? Live your life, watch your back, or get the fuck out. After all, not every cult y looking group these days is equally destructive. Cultish influence falls along a spectrum. The point of the show is to analyze how fanaticism shows up in everyday life, to poke a little bit of fun at human search for meaning, and to critique how power abuse shows up in places you might not think to.

[Chelsea Charles]

Look like a cult of seemingly aspirational child actors drenched in green slime and secrets. We're talking Nickelodeon, the kids TV show network best known for its 90s and early 2000s hits, including all that Kenan and Kel Clarissa Explains it all, the Amanda Show, Amanda Felice drake and Josh Zoey 101, Are youe Afraid of the Dark, Victorious, and iCarly, as well as animated series like the Rugrats, Hey Arnold, Doug Catdog, Ah, Real Monsters, Rocket Power and Invader Zim.

[Amanda Montel]

There are so many bangers, so iconic.

[Chelsea Charles]

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[Amanda Montel]

On.

[Chelsea Charles]

WhatsApp no one can see or hear your personal messages.

[Amanda Montel]

Whether it's a voice call message or.

[Chelsea Charles]

Sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this. So whether you're sharing the streaming password in the family chat or trading those late night voice messages that could basically become a podcast, your personal messages stay between you, your friends and your family.

[Amanda Montel]

No one else, not even us. WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Before we jump into this beloved group this week, we would like to provide a little disclaimer that since this is such an expansive topic, there is truly no way we can get into every nook and cranny of it. But we will do our very best to dig in to the meat of the alleged cult of Nickelodeon, y', all, which were your favorite Nickelodeon shows growing up. And then I'll ask a cultier question after.

[Chelsea Charles]

Absolutely. Hands down, the Amanda show. I was obsessed with her. I felt so seen.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montel]

Tell me more about that. Why?

[Chelsea Charles]

I don't know. Because she was, like, quirky and strange. I really. I resonated with that.

[Amanda Montel]

Me too. Her pronunciation of things was so peculiar. And I really, obviously. Amanda. Amanda. I really felt very represented. Oh, my God. In the late 90s, people would come up to me and be like, the Amanda show. And I would, as a reflex, like on command, be like, my name is Penelope Tate. I'm Amanda's number one fan. Please, like, without fail. So good.

[Reese Oliver]

You had to.

[Amanda Montel]

What about you? You're of a different era of Nickelodeon. I am.

[Reese Oliver]

I watched a lot of the throwbacks too. I liked the Amanda show and all of that a lot. I've always been a comedy gal, but icarly was the one that really came up with me. It really shaped my comedic tastes, I think.

[Amanda Montel]

Do you remember as told by Ginger?

[Chelsea Charles]

Hell yeah, girl, Macy Gray.

[Amanda Montel]

Did she also sing? There were copper colored ponies? There were copper colored ponies.

[Chelsea Charles]

Oh, probably.

[Amanda Montel]

You remember that song? Yes, yes. In the Air that smelled like Rain. I think that was like my first folk song. I was like, I am moved.

[Reese Oliver]

Do you remember that episode?

[Chelsea Charles]

I have no idea why I was like, this is a cartoon character. But I love as Told by Ginger.

[Amanda Montel]

Truly, it was just. It felt realer than the others. Yeah, it did. Okay, so there's obviously a lot of nostalgia wrapped up in Nickelodeon, which is a part of this cult for sure. Off the top first impressions. What do you think distinguishes Nickelodeon as a cult beyond other children's programming like the Disney Channel or Cartoon Network? There is like a cult y energy to Nickelodeon. What is that for you?

[Reese Oliver]

I Have a theory. Nickelodeon's humor has always been kind of adult humor for kids, more so than specifically kids engineered content. And we really see that, starting with, like, all that, where it's like, the first real sketch comedy show for kids. And I think that kind of makes you, when you're watching them as a kid, feel like you're engaging in something that's maybe a little bit more adult than you should be watching. But it's still technically made for kids, so I think that contributes to its culty appeal.

[Amanda Montel]

We're not like other networks.

[Reese Oliver]

We make feet jokes.

[Amanda Montel]

Yeah, yeah. No, actually.

[Reese Oliver]

Okay. Okay.

[Amanda Montel]

So I want to talk about this. I slid this topic onto our list for this season after this interview with Ariana Grande popped up in my YouTube algorithm. It was like the Wicked press tour, of course, but I had never seen an interview where other child stars from her Nickelodeon days were explicitly asking her to comment on her experience with Nickelodeon. In light of the documentary series Quiet on Set, which we will get to, this was like, whoa. You know, Ariana Grande, she has transcended, like, she is pop star, star of the big screen. Like, she wasn't interviewed on Quiet on Set is my point.

[Chelsea Charles]

Right.

[Amanda Montel]

But she was, like, pointedly asked about it, and her answer was so careful and cautious and cagey.

[Reese Oliver]

She's so well PR trained.

[Amanda Montel]

It was that. But there was also. There was a vulnerability in her eyes that made me feel like, huh, I wonder if she is not yet really, like, comfortable talking about this in public. And, like, I wonder privately if she's processed what happened to her. Because for those who aren't familiar, she was heavily featured in the Quiet on Set documentary, which details the abuses that some of Nickelodeon's adult professionals committed against children. She was involved with Nickelodeon during that time on the show Sam and Cat.

[Reese Oliver]

Sam and Cat and Victorious prior to.

[Amanda Montel]

That and Victorious prior to that. And her likeness was in the documentary because they're all these clips of her performing jokes that were written into these scripts that watching it as an adult appear sexual.

[Reese Oliver]

And I would like to comment that a lot of these scenes were available in, like, exclusive web content that you had to look outside of the Nickelodeon.

[Amanda Montel]

Channel to access, which suggests that the adults involved knew it was risque being.

[Reese Oliver]

Put there for someone to find.

[Amanda Montel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I was like, whoa. You know, obviously there was a lot of buzz surrounding Nickelodeon as a breeding ground of abuse when the Quiet on Set documentary came out. So throughout this episode, we are going to make repeated reference to this Quiet on Set documentary that came out on Hulu. Last year just because it broke the news of some truly awful abuses that some of these former Nickelodeon cast members endured when they were kids. I do want to say that some of the interviewees in the document, these former cast members were not happy with how the documentary turned out. There were a couple of them who felt like their interviews were kind of misrepresented and that the angle of the documentary was more sensational rather than sensitive. I just wanted to put that out there because, like, there was a mixed reception of the treatment of this documentary, but we're still gonna be referencing it because it broke a lot of pieces of news. But Chelsea just kind of like, first impression, high level, out of the gate. What feels especially culty to you about Nickelodeon?

[Chelsea Charles]

It's so funny that you went right into it, but I definitely feel like as an adult now looking back, I always felt my humor was a little bit more advanced as far as, like, being inappropriate.

[Amanda Montel]

Inappropriate humor, bathroom humor.

[Chelsea Charles]

And I feel like it came from my obsession at the time with Nickelodeon.

[Amanda Montel]

Okay.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yeah. Now, looking back, that is culty in itself because how impressionable we were as children. And our psyche is being warped by these execs who feel like it's appropriate to sneak in these very, very nasty little things.

[Amanda Montel]

Yeah. Like milk in a potato and shit.

[Reese Oliver]

Just like, unsavory things. There's no reason you would need to portray that for any other reason than you're a sicko.

[Amanda Montel]

Yeah. And I think the way to summarize it as, like, evidence of cultishness to me would be like, Nickelodeon always felt like a place that was uniquely special for kids where it wasn't like you were being talked down to. This is an exclusive kingdom for kids where you can be freaky as a kid and that's not gonna be discouraged. We have slime rituals. Like, you get to be yucky and we're gonna, like, splat you with neon orange and, like, green.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah, Y.

[Amanda Montel]

Like, it's green.

[Reese Oliver]

I watch brain surge religiously. Right.

[Amanda Montel]

But the. The logo is this. The logo is this, like, garish orange and the slime is green. It's like boogery. Yeah. It's tacky, but it's like we are this transcendent kingdom where kids rule and grown ups don't belong here. And to a kid, that sounds cool, but that's actually fun up.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montel]

And the way that showed up was on the production side, parents of kid actors were discouraged or forbidden from hanging out on set. And then on the audience side, there was definitely this distinct vibe that Nick shows Weren't shows you watched with mom and dad. I remember feeling embarrassed when my parents would walk in the room when I was watching a Nickelodeon show because they were so fucking weird. Yeah, like ah, real monsters. That shit is so weird.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yeah.

[Reese Oliver]

Spongebob was contraband in my house. My mom found him mostly because the the voice actors she found really annoy but also just the humor she didn't really approve of. She didn't let me read Junie B. Jones either because her grammar was poor. But that is to say. Yeah, it's kind of like usually kids content is so sanitized and educational and like trying to make you a good person. Nickelodeon's really like who cares about being a good person? This is tv. We're gonna have fun.

[Amanda Montel]

Yeah, it's a place for you to be bad. And it only makes sense that this place where parents aren't important is also a place where abuse has occurred.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montel]

To me 90s Nickelodeon was almost like those classic 70s cults who entire promise was like old school Christianity. Boring. Wouldn't you rather achieve transcendence by dropping acid? Nickelodeon basically said PBS snooze. Here you can be yourself. Come and join us as long as you leave the grown ups behind. And if that's not the ultimate kid cult, I don't know what is. So I guess the fundamental purpose of this episode is knowing what we know now about what was happening behind the scenes in the 90s and early 2000s. We can all sort of reckon with our nostalgia for Nickelodeon in a way that Ariana Grande didn't really seem to be able to in that interview that I saw. And also maybe we can discuss some ways that the entertainment industry in general might be able to make kids feel seen but also safe moving forward. Let's back up though because this sounds like a cult episode and we're going to tell you a little bit of cult history of the cult of Nickelodeon.

[Chelsea Charles]

Nickelodeon began in 1977 in Columbus, Ohio as a cable educational network for Kids by Dr. Vivian Horner, an educator and director of research on the PBS series the Electric Company. So it started off educational. Okay, good attention. So originally introduced as Pinwheel, the network later pivoted to more entertainment focused programming in 1979 and reintroduced as Nickelodeon. Fun fact, the channel's name comes from the first 5 cent movie theaters called Nickelodeon. On January 4th, 1988, Nick Jr. Was launched that eventually grew into its own channel in 2009, introducing Dora and Blue's Clues to the little learners everywhere. Okay, I just wanna say I watched Nick Jr. For far.

[Amanda Montel]

Me too.

[Chelsea Charles]

Okay.

[Reese Oliver]

Because we just got a letter.

[Chelsea Charles]

Exactly. I was a little too old, but it was just.

[Amanda Montel]

No, I did the same thing.

[Chelsea Charles]

Okay.

[Reese Oliver]

Okay.

[Amanda Montel]

Was. Was Steve. Was Steve.

[Chelsea Charles]

Steve was our dad.

[Amanda Montel]

Was Steve hot? No.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montel]

Um, okay, obviously that haircut and that fit, like, the green stripes were not hot, but, like, maybe it was just the intimacy. He was, like, really looking into the camera.

[Reese Oliver]

He was the first vlogger. That's not an original joke.

[Amanda Montel]

You.

[Chelsea Charles]

You ran to the ball.

[Reese Oliver]

Cut. No.

[Chelsea Charles]

Okay, got it.

[Amanda Montel]

But, like, he had a sex appeal nonetheless.

[Chelsea Charles]

Judging you just a tad.

[Reese Oliver]

It's okay. No, okay.

[Amanda Montel]

Everybody has. Everybody has an objectively non sexy.

[Reese Oliver]

Oh, yeah. Well, my first. One of my first celebrity crushes was Spencer Shay, Carly's older brother. There's been conversation online lately like he was supposed to be the next Jim Carrey.

[Amanda Montel]

Is Jared. Reference.

[Reese Oliver]

Yes.

[Amanda Montel]

Okay. Sorry. After my time.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yeah.

[Reese Oliver]

Get your head in the game, man. Yeah. Ooh, Disney reference. Can't do that. Oh, can't do that.

[Amanda Montel]

Knock on this episode. No, Let me be clear. Disney Channel is culty. I know for a damn fact we've all heard Miley Cyrus talk about her experience. We know, but the vibes were so different. That was not a kingdom for kids to be weird.

[Chelsea Charles]

No, no, no. Like, no.

[Reese Oliver]

That was a factory. And they never lied about that.

[Amanda Montel]

Yeah, totally. And, like, parents were on set. Billy Ray, he was the star of the show.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yes, he was. He said, let me get in there.

[Amanda Montel]

Let me get in there, Let me get in there, Mali. All right, let's hear more about the. The cults within cults of Nickelodeon.

[Chelsea Charles]

All right, in 2002, Nicktoons was released, becoming the dedicated home for Nickelodeon's iconic animated series. And then there was Noggin, an interactive educational brand co created with Sesame workshop, launching in 1999 to combine learning and fun. In 2009, Teen Nick and Noggin's mashup rebirthed Teen Nick, a channel for the high school drama music videos and the show that introduced Americans to the champagne Poppy himself. Cue hotline game.

[Reese Oliver]

And they never apologized for that. No. I used to get home from school and I would watch the. The Teen Nick top ten music videos. I loved those. Like, it was like, ooh, Austin Mahone's on tv.

[Chelsea Charles]

Same. Yes, yes, yes.

[Amanda Montel]

No, but like, and this is the thing. It's like Nickelodeon was cool as fuck. It was.

[Chelsea Charles]

And I mean, if it's Nickelodeon versus the D word, I'm too Losing Nickelodeon every time.

[Amanda Montel]

Kinda same.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yes.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montel]

After Zoomies at the Dog park, it's Time for drive up at Target.

[Chelsea Charles]

In goes a big bag of kibble and one squeaky chicken toy for the good boy.

[Amanda Montel]

Drive up that's ready when you are.

[Chelsea Charles]

Only in the Target app, just tap Target.

[Reese Oliver]

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[Amanda Montel]

Culty thing about Nickelodeon. It was not just a network. It wasn't just this like parasocial thing where you watch your favorite actors on tv. It had its own IRL pilgrimage site. And when I first moved to LA and I drove by the Nickelodeon studios for the first time, I felt like I was driving by Mecca. I was like, oh, my brain. That orange. It really does. It like tingles something?

[Chelsea Charles]

No, exactly the same. When I first moved, I lived literally like a mile away. And I was telling people back home, like, just so you know, I. I live by Nickelodeon.

[Reese Oliver]

I just didn't want to think about that.

[Amanda Montel]

It was like a hallowed space. There was lore around it. Nickelodeon was worshiped. So once Nickelodeon entered those, like, glory days, its heyday in the 1990s, it was promised to be Kid Heaven. Any kid in the 90s who, like, wanted to be on TV wanted to be on Nickelodeon. And that sense of, like, kid Mecca extended beyond the channel to real life. On June 7, 1990, Nickelodeon Studios opened its gates and was dubbed the first world headquarters for kids. The studio was an attraction site for tourists and audience members of all the Nickelodeon live action programming. There were tours, live tapings. What I would have given to go to a live taping of the Amanda.

[Chelsea Charles]

Show or all that.

[Reese Oliver]

The Dancing Lobsters.

[Chelsea Charles]

Oh my God.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Charles]

I still make the I'm going to slap you in the head with a fish joke to this day.

[Amanda Montel]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Reese Oliver]

Wait.

[Amanda Montel]

Well, do y' all remember Moody's Point?

[Reese Oliver]

Yes.

[Chelsea Charles]

Wait, wait, no.

[Amanda Montel]

Yes. That was the Amanda show's parody of Dawson's Creep.

[Reese Oliver]

It was. It was so good.

[Amanda Montel]

Does this ring any bells? My toe.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yes, it does. Yes, it does. Okay.

[Reese Oliver]

It was right after the girls room.

[Chelsea Charles]

Oh my God.

[Amanda Montel]

Like, okay, when it was wrong, it was really Wrong.

[Reese Oliver]

But when it was right, it was really right.

[Chelsea Charles]

She was a fucking revolutionary.

[Amanda Montel]

She was. God, I hope, like, what is she doing right now?

[Reese Oliver]

She is a nail tech. Oh, sorry. Not to be like, ding, ding. No, no, she is great. She's like, stable.

[Amanda Montel]

Does she still have the face tattoo?

[Reese Oliver]

Yes. Yeah, it's a tattoo.

[Amanda Montel]

I really long to see, like a Lindsay Lohan style comeback from a binds.

[Chelsea Charles]

I fully, fully agree.

[Reese Oliver]

I think she's hopefully finding it in her own way. She seems to be enjoying doing nails.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yes.

[Amanda Montel]

I just wish her the best.

[Chelsea Charles]

I wonder if she knows and I'm being hyperbolic about this, but I'm dead ass. I wonder if she knows the legacy that she has created. The inspo to all the little weird theater girls. I fucking love her. So, you know, do your nails, girl. But just so you know, like, you're.

[Reese Oliver]

A comedic force if you ever want to tie back into it, literally.

[Amanda Montel]

No, you're like, absolutely right. She was so fucking special, dude.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yes.

[Amanda Montel]

She gave us all permission, our whole generation to make silly voices out of nowhere.

[Chelsea Charles]

And that's the gray area about this whole thing because it's like the gray area of us having the permission to be weird. But it has some underlying.

[Reese Oliver]

It's being supervised.

[Chelsea Charles]

Exactly.

[Reese Oliver]

Surveilled. There's an ulterior motive. It's not just for kids to be kids.

[Chelsea Charles]

Exactly.

[Amanda Montel]

Totally. I feel like I could detour into overanalyzing Amanda Bynes at like any given point in my life.

[Reese Oliver]

But tell us more about the studio. Yeah, back to the studio.

[Amanda Montel]

So Nickelodeon studios offered all these cool things, not least of which was. Drumroll, please. The Slime Geyser. So the Slime Geyser was. How do you want to say it? If Nickelodeon is Christianity, slime is the blood of Christ. Okay, so the Slime Geyser was unveiled on the studio grounds on October. October.

[Chelsea Charles]

October, Yes.

[Reese Oliver]

A month. Now we're creating it. What is time? What month is it now? What?

[Amanda Montel]

It's October. It's called October now.

[Reese Oliver]

It is.

[Amanda Montel]

Okay. This is how history changes. It was October 27, 1990. Now there was a whole unveiling ceremony of the Slime geyser. A towering 17 foot fountain spewing vibrant green slime. A fan obsession synonymous with the Nickelodeon brand. I cannot think of Nickelodeon without thinking slime.

[Chelsea Charles]

Did y' all ever want to be.

[Reese Oliver]

Slimed a little bit? I grew up watching Brain Surge like I mentioned earlier, and Brain Surge was a game show. And there was a lot of, like, punishments involved for the contestants, a lot of which involved Gross things that were supposed to emulate bodily fluids. Like there. There was a slide that looked like an ear that you would slide out of and there was, like, pus in it.

[Amanda Montel]

But I remember that, yeah, people were.

[Reese Oliver]

Always getting slimed on. Brain surge. Part of me was like, I would want to make it through the show without getting slimed. But it also feels like a rite of passage.

[Amanda Montel]

A rite of passage which cults famously have. I never wanted to be slimed because again, I think subconsciously, even when I was a little kid, I knew that there were grownups behind this. And that seemed mean.

[Reese Oliver]

Mean.

[Amanda Montel]

You know, if it was like kid on kid slime.

[Reese Oliver]

You know what? Nobody Google it.

[Chelsea Charles]

I love the way your mind works. Yeah. Because I don't want to be slimed by an adult.

[Amanda Montel]

No. Like world Kids headquarters.

[Reese Oliver]

And you're gonna slime me as an adult. Yeah.

[Amanda Montel]

It felt like a power dynamic.

[Chelsea Charles]

Oh, my God. Yes.

[Amanda Montel]

You know, but slime really was this cult ritual in the world of Nickelodeon. And these were its origins. Green slime made its debut on Nickelodeon during the Canadian sketch comedy show you can't do that on Television, which began airing on the network in 1981. And as Nickelodeon grew, green slime became emblematic of the brand, featuring prominently in shows like Double Dare.

[Chelsea Charles]

Double Dare.

[Amanda Montel]

Ugh.

[Reese Oliver]

Loves freaking Double Dare.

[Amanda Montel]

And special events like Nickelodeon's Kids Choice Awards, cementing its place in pop culture history. That is interesting, though, like, how if you won a Kids Choice Award, you got slimed. So it was like a little pain with your pleasure.

[Reese Oliver]

And if I remember correctly, I think sometimes people got slimed that didn't even win.

[Chelsea Charles]

So there's no. No rhyme or reason, just whoever would be funnier.

[Reese Oliver]

Can I tell you guys a little fun fact? I have attended a Kids Choice Awards. No. I got a T shirt from the canon. I met one of the Real Housewives. I don't remember which one in the audience after, but it was very culty. It was just like this sea of little children and, like, their very stressed out parents. And at the time, I was aging out of Nickelodeon, so I was really able to kind of see it from, like the in group and the out group, where from within it, I was like, oh, my God, we're a bunch of kids. And I've been watching this show on TV for like 10 years. This is so crazy. But then the aging part of me is like, wow. I kind of feel like I'm in a big McDonald's play place. And this all feels really orchestrated, I.

[Amanda Montel]

Think with franchises like the Kids Choice Awards and Nickelodeon studios and the sliming or whatever. Nickelodeon was really masterful at creating a sense of escapism like this world that was run by different rules, which is very similar to how certain actual cults operate. Nickelodeon launched its iconic award show in 1987 as another ceremonial world building exercise that kind of blended the world of adults with the world of kids. You know, it's like this is like the freaky, slime drenched Oscars of kids shows, which was so cool and aspirational and competitive. And there was all kinds of like highfalutin language that went along with this ceremony. The award itself was called the blimp. Celebrities who were tied to Nickelodeon were referred to as Nickelodeon Fam or Celebrity Kids, elevating them to this mythical status that I know for a fact when I was little, I would have given my left breast bud to be on a Nickelodeon television program.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah, facts.

[Amanda Montel]

It really does beg an interesting question about the ethics of brand building for a children's entertainment network because, like, these pieces of cult iconography and rituals, from the, you know, Nickelodeon T shirt cannon to the slime to the orange splat, they work. But children are so much more impressionable and vulnerable to that cult marketing than adults. And so I really think that if you're working for a kids network, you have to have like an extra level of awareness of how much power and influence you have over kids because people can orient their whole identities around an entertainment brand, even when they're like, old enough to be able to create critically.

[Reese Oliver]

Think slime's a little nefarious now? Yeah.

[Chelsea Charles]

To that same point, I think we're missing something about the slime motif. I kind of see it as something like a humiliation ritual aimed at manipulating followers under the guise of kids just having fun. A lot of cult like structures use these humiliation rituals to kind of foster a sense of belonging. The slime plays into that. And when I thought about this, I was thinking about like in Greek life culture, right? And fraternities, all the hazing. And from what we know, the outside hazing. Oh, drink all this beer. Or I don't know, I read one that was like, stick this keg thing in your butt. And I'm like, this is all like humiliation.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montel]

And oftentimes like kind of sexual, which is very strange. That is such a good point. I had never thought about slime as a humiliation ritual that sort of subconsciously there to establish a power dynamic like we are fucking in charge. But also, once you do this and once you experience that breakdown, then we will build you up and you will be accepted.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah. Like, we'll let you run around and.

[Amanda Montel]

Be grubby little kids and we'll give.

[Reese Oliver]

You a place to do all that and let all your sillies out. But if you're gonna be gross and grubby, then you get slimed. Ha ha. And it's like, okay, I guess. I guess I'm getting slimed.

[Amanda Montel]

Ah, it's very manipulative when you put it that way. And I think it also sort of teaches some sketchy lessons about consent in a way, because in between all the hype surrounding, you know, this euphemism of getting slimed, it seems like there was never really a chance to stop and question if you actually wanted it.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yeah. So in an old Reddit thread, one user adds, My 15 minutes of fame is having hot slime accidentally poured on me in this building. I was 8 and it was my first and only sliming, so I didn't even know something went wrong until 30 years later when the gak master at the went on TikTok and shared the story of how some poor random kid was slimed with hot slime. Because of the mixup, friends connected me with the story and thanks to some family photos, I was able to verify that it was me and gave TikTok a crazy full circle story.

[Amanda Montel]

Oh, hot slime.

[Reese Oliver]

I mean, I think I read once it's made out of like oatmeal and applesauce amongst other things. So, like, definitely gross. But, like, I think I'd rather have warm oatmeal than like cold oatmeal poured on me.

[Amanda Montel]

I just cannot believe that this objectively revolting substance was able to be harnessed by Nickelodeon into something that little kids wanted to happen to them. The act of being slimed really was this initiation into Nickelodeon's culture. It is confounding to me when I back up and take a look at it, that little kids such as your we self Reese, wearing a little backpack and some glasses were looking at the screen and being like, I want an adult to like, douse me in rancid applesauce so that I can be accepted by the headquarters for cool kids. It really does feel like an exchange of public mortification for inclusion in the Nickelodeon family kind of reform. Framing that humiliation as a moment of pride and connection, which so, so very much mirrors initiation rituals in cults as destructive as Nexium or as everyday as Greek life.

[Chelsea Charles]

Jack Daniels has proudly served in fine.

[Reese Oliver]

Establishments, questionable joints, and everywhere in between.

[Chelsea Charles]

So no matter where you go in every bar, you'll always know someone by name.

[Amanda Montel]

Jack Jack and Coke.

[Reese Oliver]

Shot of Jack Jack Daniels, please. Right away.

[Chelsea Charles]

That's what makes Jack Jack.

[Reese Oliver]

Please drink responsibly. Responsibility.org Jack Daniels and old number seven are registered trademarks. Copyright 2025 Jack Daniels Tennessee Whiskey.

[Amanda Montel]

40% alcohol by volume 80 proof. With the Venmo debit card, you can Venmo everything. Your favorite band's merch. You can Venmo this or their next show.

[Chelsea Charles]

You can Venmo that.

[Amanda Montel]

Visit Venmo Me Ventures Debit to learn more. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp bank and a pursuant to license by Mastercard International Incorporated. The card may be used everywhere. MasterCard is accepted. Venmo purchase restrictions apply.

[Reese Oliver]

So we've talked a little bit about the general ick vibe at Nickelodeon and the people orchestrating this vibe. But of course, in every cult there has to be a special someone at the very top. And if you have seen the Quiet on Set documentary that aired this last year, I am sure you are more than well aware that the cult leader in this case is the one and only American television producer and screenwriter, Dan Schneider. He created and produced several, several shows on Nickelodeon from 1994 to 2019. That's like my entire existence, including icarly, Victorious, Drake and Josh and Zoey 101. Dan, before his recent fall from grace, was previously known as the high priest of Nickelodeon Studios. Beloved and well regarded for his TV creations. He was kind of responsible for this, like, renaissance at nickelodeon in the mid 2000s. More recently.

[Amanda Montel]

The one that defined your girlhood.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah, the one that defined my girlhood. Thank you, Dan Schneider, for orchestrating my entire sense of humor and also being like one of the worst people I've had the displeasure of hearing about in the past year. Get you a man who can do both.

[Amanda Montel]

And that's on Cult Leader.

[Reese Oliver]

That's on Cult Leader. More recently, Dan Schneider has come under fire for allegations of exploitation and mistreatment of young actors. To put it very kindly, that Quiet on Set documentary I mentioned earlier explored the inappropriate behaviors of Dan Schneider, who really exhibited some awful, controlling, verbally abusive behavior on these sets. And he even scripted some scenes featuring some children in really gross situations, really suggestive situations like we were talking about earlier.

[Amanda Montel]

And one culty thing about that for me is that he really played favorites and other cast members in these various shows noticed that. And even though he created this culture of fear, and even though he was verbally abusive and even though he was putting kids in these suggestive scenarios that made them uncomfortable by their own admission, on later reflection, because he was so powerful and because he was being lauded as the high priest of Nickelodeon, as you put it, this visionary who brought all these iconic shows to the network, they still wanted to be in his good graces, even if it meant being sort of abused or manipulated or mistreated in this way.

[Reese Oliver]

Why is he giving black swan? Like, why are these little eight year olds, these tortured artists that feel they have to suffer for the craft of kids sketch comedy? Like, it's never that serious.

[Amanda Montel]

But a cult can spring up around absolutely anything, including something as stupid as like an innuendo and some slime, you know, ew. Because it wasn't really about that. Fame is so valued in our culture, is more valued all the time. And I feel like that idea of like, like every kid wanting to be famous really started here in this era. And you would be willing to sacrifice a lot, your whole childhood to be a star of Nickelodeon.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montel]

You turn on your TV when you're.

[Reese Oliver]

A little kid and it's just all of these kids that are a little bit older than you having so much fun. They're wearing these T shirts with these fun little slogans that don't exist anywhere else. They all have their matching like pear shaped technology. Like it really feels like this utopia. And even though all the shows on Nickelodeon are a little different, they all have this like Schneider y touch to them that I think is that same icky feeling I mentioned earlier as being like the culty thing about Nickelodeon. But it starts as some funny little penny T shirts and some silly little foot jokes and then it is straight up psychological trauma for these actors.

[Chelsea Charles]

I just had a little bit of a eureka moment and I want to ask you about something that you just said. You said it started with slime and innuendo. Are you trying to say that the slime is an innuendo?

[Amanda Montel]

Yeah, I mean, in the Quiet on set documentary, they pointed out how there were a lot of moments in various Nickelodeon shows when some sort of like gooey icky substance would get shot onto the face of an actor on screen. And they called it like a cum shot. So like, I mean, this is so fucking gross. But like, what is getting slimed other than like baby skeet most massive gum shot?

[Chelsea Charles]

Yeah. Yes.

[Reese Oliver]

I mean, I think it just goes to show how hidden in plain sight all of it is that like, that is so clear. And I think like all the adults watching Nickelodeon probably realize that at some point subconsciously, but still never really thought twice about turning on the channel for their children. Dan Schneider as a cult leader was preying on that same obliviousness from the parents as he was from the actors and actresses whom he was sliming.

[Amanda Montel]

Yeah. And it was so sort of calculated of him to set up the vibe at Nickelodeon as an exclusive place for kids as an excuse to prevent potential witnesses of abuse, AKA the parents from being present. It made sense in the logic of Nickelodeon's world or cult for them not really to be there. And in the end what came of that was like a nightmare beyond what anyone could imagine.

[Reese Oliver]

Especially I think that pressure is so large to keep quiet about things like that for any child, but especially as one that is a public facing kid who even if you are on an edgier network like Nickelodeon, is expected to be a very wholesome public figure. And that pressure can really lead to like a lot of lasting psychological effects for these actors. A lot of them have come out in their adulthood after their Nickelodeon days. To speak about the long term psychological ramifications of of being in the limelight at such a young age. You were talking about Ariana Grande earlier. She's one of them, obviously. So. Ariana Grande's Sam and Cat co star Jennette McCurdy published a 2022 memoir called I'm Glad My Mom Died. Fantastic read. And in that memoir she detailed a lot of the emotional abuse she endured on the set of iCarly. In that memoir she alleged that a male producer offered her alcohol when she was underage and gave her an unsolicited shoulder massage. McCurdy also claims that Nickelodeon offered her $300,000 to remain silent about her experiences, which she declined.

[Amanda Montel]

Good for you, girl.

[Reese Oliver]

A couple more of them were Alexa Nicholas. She's like really vocal about her the abuse she's endured at Nickelodeon. She protested outside Nickelodeon's Burbank Studios in August 2022 alleging that the network failed to provide a safe work environment for her and other child actors. Nicholas called for the network to address these issues and release former employees from non disclosure agreements.

[Amanda Montel]

Arguably the most shocking story that came out of this quiet on set documentary was that of former Drake and Josh star Drake Bell.

[Reese Oliver]

Drake Bell's life over the past decade has been really interesting to watch. As someone who grew up watching Drake and Josh, he is like fully a Spanish music artist who goes by Drake Campania now. So he's kind of like amongst kids my age, we were always kind of like hey, that's a little kooky. I wonder why Drake Bell like Fell off the face of the earth, and now only makes Spanish weird. In Quiet on Set, Drake Bell opened up a little bit about his past, and it kind of helped to piece together why he might have created some distance between himself and the Drake Bell that everyone knew and grew up with. In Quiet on Set, Bell recounted being sexually abused by Brian Peck, his dialogue coach and an actor employed by Nickelodeon. Bell says the abuse was extensive and it got pretty brutal. I really don't know how to elaborate on that on camera. Why don't you think of the worst stuff that someone could do to somebody as a sexual assault and that'll answer your question? I don't know how else to put it. Peck pleaded no contest to two charges and was sentenced to 16 months in jail in 2004.

[Amanda Montel]

It's about as bad as it gets. And the culture of fear and inability to dissent or bring in outside witnesses in the form of parents, that culture that Dan Schneider created is what gave way to Brian Peck being able to get away with these abuses for so many years. I remember in the documentary, like, some of the most heartbreaking moments were the interviews with Drake Bell's dad, who got the sense that there was something off and bad about Peck from early on and was just kind of like, gaslit and ignored. And just knowing that his suspicions were correct, I think it'll haunt him forever. Was Drake Bell also guilty of sexually assaulting someone?

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah, Trauma begets trauma. So I'm just gonna leave this headline here. Drake Bell, former Nickelodeon star, gets probation for child endangerment. The little blurb is, the former star of Nickelodeon's Drake and Josh pleaded guilty to attempted child endangerment and disseminating matter harmful to juveniles in June of 2021.

[Amanda Montel]

I do remember that. No, the whole story, like, start to finish and everyone who was victimized. It sours those nostalgic feelings of Nickelodeon so much.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montel]

And this still isn't even the whole story of the scope of Nickelodeon's cultishness.

[Chelsea Charles]

So sexual innuendo is not the only nefarious thing at Nickelodeon. Despite being a progressive media powerhouse, several accounts have alleged that Nickelodeon lacks cultural diversity in their programming. In an article in People magazine, Keke Palmer, known for her role in True Jackson vp, discussed feeling marginalized as the black girl on the network, noting that she wasn't included in the same conversations as her white peers like Selena Gomez or Miley Cyrus. She highlighted the limitations placed on her due to her race, which affected her opportunities and visibility. The brand tried to rectify these accusations by releasing a diverse Cast in the Last Airbender and the Loud House. However, the general audience consensus was that it felt long overdue.

[Reese Oliver]

Those are both cartoons. Neither of those even have real people.

[Amanda Montel]

Of color in them.

[Reese Oliver]

Which is funny because I feel like Nickelodeon really got a lot of their clout from black comedians like Kenan and Kel, which Kenan I still watch to.

[Chelsea Charles]

This day on Saturday Night Live. Like, he is having the time of.

[Reese Oliver]

His life on Saturday Night Live. And I like, he's the one cast member that I'm like everyone else. I feel like you can do something else. Kenan. No. You're locked in, buddy.

[Amanda Montel]

My brother as a kid became obsessed, nay addicted to orange soda because of Kel cultural impact.

[Chelsea Charles]

I also looked at some of the voice actors in the Loud House. Cause obviously they had an initiative to bring more people of color on these screens, and there was no diversity in the voice acting.

[Amanda Montel]

Shut up.

[Chelsea Charles]

Which I found super interesting.

[Amanda Montel]

Wait, you're kidding me.

[Reese Oliver]

No, The House is being real quiet about that.

[Amanda Montel]

Damn.

[Chelsea Charles]

So as I was reading the article that featured Keke Palmer specifically, I was thinking about my own experience working in television. But obviously I work in unscripted. And I think this is extremely frustrating to hear that this was happening 20 years ago, but it's also still happening today. So there hasn't been much progression. And when you see these TV shows and they have all these initiatives to diversify the cast members, rarely ever is that reflected behind the scenes. So rarely ever do you see, yes, okay, there are indigenous people, there's Asian representation. But when you go in those writers rooms, in those producer spaces, usually there's one that kind of fits the box of every single thing. And you think about your post department after we filmed it and it goes to post, some of the jokes and the nuances in conversation, they kind of miss the mark because you don't have that representation in post. And then you think about on an executive level, there are rarely any execs in these spaces that. I don't know, Just no checks and balances. Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montel]

I mean, that reminds me of one detail that we haven't mentioned yet. From the quiet onset documentary, which sent shivers down my spine. Every single person in those writers rooms was a white man. And when they finally welcomed two women into the writers room, they offered to pay them one salary for both of them. All the while, like, Dan Schneider was forcing them to give him massages and shit. And so thinking about that behind the scenes and that they're, like, trying to create more diversity in this animated show. I think it just speaks to the exclusivity and, like, gaslighting that were present in every nook and cranny of Nickelodeon. And again, that no one could push back against.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yeah, I don't know. I think that's why I'm just. I feel so optimistic about Gen Z, just because there's so much more visibility in different subgroups and subcultures. And even the visibility with things like quiet on set documentary and the Barney documentary. You're seeing all the things that were fucked up during the millennial childhood and now feel like we have Gen Z. I mean, I know that's a lot of pressure, but Gen Z, in these spaces where they are not afraid to talk about these things. And I just find that so admirable. And it makes me feel like in this new wave of streaming content, whatever, I feel like it's gonna be a whole new world.

[Amanda Montel]

Yeah, Gen Z bullshit thresholds are a lot lower.

[Reese Oliver]

I think, you know, we had a.

[Amanda Montel]

Higher tolerance for bullshit. Not like naturally, but just because of where we were in history and time.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yes.

[Reese Oliver]

I think Gen Z gets socialized with a lot of bullshit from a very young age. So the bullshit censors become very finely attuned very early.

[Amanda Montel]

And sometimes they go too far.

[Reese Oliver]

Yep, yeah, yep, yep. Yeah.

[Amanda Montel]

Sometimes something's not bullshit.

[Reese Oliver]

No. Let people enjoy things. Some of y' all are haters all the time about everything.

[Amanda Montel]

Definitely not us having a podcast where we call everything a cult. No, we're not.

[Reese Oliver]

Ha. We are cultural critics. Yes.

[Amanda Montel]

This is cultural criticism. So it is famously difficult to arraign a cult leader, to translate the psychological abuses that they commit into a crime that is persecutable. And even when that happens, sometimes the cult prevails. But it kind of seems like once Dan Schneider disappeared, Nickelodeon's cultishness diluted.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah. So Nickelodeon did ultimately dethrone its leader, Dan Schneider, but not until the MeToo movement in 2018, which was, like, way after Drake Bell's abuser, Brian Peck was sentenced to prison in 2004. To kind of wrap up that story, Peck was incarcerated for less than a year. And get this. After he got out, he was immediately hired on another kids show, Suite Life of Zack and Cody on Disney Channel. Little cult Hopper. And that was allowed to happen in part because two of the Amanda show's directors had written character letters in support of Peck. Slimy, grody stuff. Clearly, there were, like, a lot more adults in the cult of Nickelodeon who did not respect any of the children they worked with. The way that the Brand promised to. And I would count that hypocrisy as not only dangerous, but also heliculty.

[Amanda Montel]

So what is the status of Nickelodeon content right now? Dan Schneider is no longer involved. You know, this documentary came out and threw so many people for a loop. What is going on with Nickelodeon these days? Do we know?

[Reese Oliver]

I don't think they still have a.

[Chelsea Charles]

Huge choice of words, but they are.

[Reese Oliver]

On Paramount because I watch SpongeBob on Paramount.

[Amanda Montel]

I think that's very interesting that, like, we're vaguely aware that Nickelodeon still exists.

[Reese Oliver]

But nobody gives a shit.

[Amanda Montel]

I can't name a single. I mean, I'm also an adult woman with no children, but I can't name a single Nickelodeon show that's on the air currently. It doesn't seem to have the same place in the zeitgeist that it used to. Okay, what's airing on the Nickelodeon actual cable network today is reruns of the Big Bang Theory, reruns of Friends, reruns of Modern Family, reruns of SpongeBob, reruns of Paw Patrol, and more reruns of SpongeBob. And then like a movie. Is that not insane?

[Chelsea Charles]

That's crazy.

[Amanda Montel]

It's like, really dead. I honestly had no idea. That is interesting because, like, in the 90s and early 2000s, it was culty for better and culty for worse. Well, when your followers are kids, they grow up.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Reese Oliver]

And then when Dan Schneider's no longer in charge, like, sure, it's the same cult, but it's not the same cult leader. You know, the je ne sais quoi is gone.

[Amanda Montel]

The je ne sais cult.

[Reese Oliver]

The je ne sais cult.

[Chelsea Charles]

Oh, I want a T shirt. Yes. Because the allure that's attached to these cults is all about the leader. It's all about the leader. It's all about the personality. He's the person that's selling it. And so he had this larger than life personality on set and the thrill is gone.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah, it's not Schneider's bakery anymore. That was his little production tag at the end of all of the. All of his shows.

[Amanda Montel]

Well, that just goes to show how some cults, at least the cults that we discuss on this show, thrive leaderless. The cult of Harry Potter. Harry Potter. The cult of Gilmore Girls. I'm naming other entertainment cults because there was enough connective tissue and enough just like, fodder there for the cult to exist without the vision of the leader. But that's not true here, which really shows kind of the Fragility of Nickelodeon as a brand. Nickelodeon was only really a cult, as I'm understanding it in this moment when Dan Schneider was at the helm.

[Reese Oliver]

Right now there's a mass deconstruction, if you will. And it feels like the way in which its members are engaging with it now is through, like a critical lens and through things like quiet on set and like, video essays online made by, like, people my age who grew up watching Nickelodeon because there's not new episodes for us to watch or new content for us to engage in. So all we can do is watch what we grew up with. And when we have adult eyes now and we watch that old content and we see all the things, all of the, I don't want to say dog whistles, but all of these things that were like, left in plain sight for the adults to see and for the kids to be complicit in. And it makes you feel kind of used.

[Chelsea Charles]

Okay.

[Amanda Montel]

I think we've explored the many corners of this cult. The nostalgia, the little cultural artifacts, the fucked up stuff that went down. We're prepared for our verdict.

[Chelsea Charles]

I think we are.

[Amanda Montel]

Chelsea and Rhys, out of our three cult categories, Live your life, watch your back and get the fuck out. Which category do you think the cult of Nickelodeon falls into?

[Chelsea Charles]

It's giving. Get the fuck out of the. How about you?

[Reese Oliver]

I guess it depends if we're talking about Nickelodeon of today or Nickelodeon of yore. I think Nickelodeon as it exists is getting the fuck out itself. It's dying. Yeah.

[Amanda Montel]

It's a deflated blimp.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montel]

Literally.

[Chelsea Charles]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montel]

I think Nickelodeon in its heyday, ugh, Canonical. Get the fuck out. So powerful, so influential, so gross. So exploitative. Not worse, the good stuff. Right. But once Dan Schneider left, it kind of disappeared and so. Right. Like, was this a stupid topic? Like, it's kind of over.

[Chelsea Charles]

It's clear. And I mean, also, I feel like the reason why this is such a gray area for me is because I am thinking about the human beings who were kind of fucked over and used as collateral damage in this, this entire cult. Because it is okay. And I think about Amanda Bynes today and I think about Drake Bell today, and yes, he was accused of doing horrible things, but hurt people. Hurt people. And that is a learned behavior. And I say get the fuck out. Because, yes, they are a part of the Nickelodeon legacy, but at what cost? You know, it's sad.

[Amanda Montel]

Yeah, it's really sad. I mean, former Nickelodeon child stars, some of them have like, the saddest downward spiral of any former child star. I can really think of like Miranda.

[Reese Oliver]

Cosgrove, who is like the most normal person to ever exist, I think, and I mean that as a compliment. Miranda, I love you. She was like stalked and held at gunpoint by just some rando watching this show. Like Nickelodeon just so transparently doesn't care about any of the children they employ. I mean, I guess just to put it bluntly. Yeah. And I think what's interesting about that is that while they're not an active cult at the moment, they really serve as a guidebook for like, exactly how not to make kids media moving into like the influencer era. I think it gives us a really good frame of reference to be like, okay, these are the kinds of things we should look out for, like in.

[Amanda Montel]

The context of family vloggers and stuff like that. That is a good point. And I was thinking of it earlier. Oftentimes when you think of who has power in Hollywood or who is committing exploitative acts or whatever, you think of the front facing people. You think of like actors like Armie Hammer or you think of celebrities. At least I do. And it is not that often that you get to hear a story this detailed of an executive being brought to justice, sort of. I mean, like some justice was achieved in the wake of these crimes. I would argue not enough. And I think a lot of other people would argue that too. But like, like, it is this cautionary tale about where to look in terms of an entertainment cult. We're oftentimes looking at people on screen. We need to be looking at the people.

[Reese Oliver]

Operator.

[Amanda Montel]

Yeah, look at the gaffer. I'm kidding.

[Reese Oliver]

So.

[Amanda Montel]

Well, maybe, I don't know. But it's like there are so many people who work on TV shows. You fucking know there are people whose jobs I don't even understand. There are so many jobs that adults have on a film or TV set. And when kids are at the center of a project, we just have to treat them with kid gloves. Like, you have to just default to assuming that it's like measures are not being taken to create the safest, safest, safest possible environment. Cult abuse could occur. They're kids.

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah.

[Amanda Montel]

Fragile little lumps of clay Little lumps.

[Reese Oliver]

Little lumps of slime.

[Amanda Montel]

Sweet little lumps of slime. Damn. Well, that's kind of like, like a downer. But I think it's an important conversation to have. Like, we are an entertainment driven society. And like, I don't know. I remember talking about this when we did our Cult of Child Stars episode where it was like, what is the solution here, do we just like get rid of child actors and just have.

[Reese Oliver]

All no kids content with kids in it?

[Amanda Montel]

Yeah, but like do we just go to animation only?

[Chelsea Charles]

You know, I think that there needs to be some positions that are created on set. Obviously there are set teachers, but those are kind of like warped into the world as well. But there needs to be like an hr.

[Reese Oliver]

Child coordinators.

[Chelsea Charles]

Child coordinators. I was just about to say like now they're introducing the intimacy coordinators, which was long overdue, honey. But yes, if we're gonna still have these children on set and potentially expose them to some nasty behavior, we need to have someone that can kind of be a barrier wall.

[Amanda Montel]

Totally. I was just, just actually talking to a friend the other day. This friend of mine is a therapist and they want to pursue a career as an on set therapist. Because first of all, even if you're an adult, acting is stressful. You're sometimes embodying like characters who are experiencing trauma and whatever and that's in your body, even though you're playing someone who's made up. And we had a joke about this friend of mine, like therapizing like method actors and character. But on the real, like how the fuck is it not customary for there to be child therapists on the set of child's TV shows?

[Reese Oliver]

Yeah, because those are a thing to my understanding, like relatively frequently on unscripted TV sets and I think with child geared content. As a child actor, so much of your role in the show is to be yourself, to be a child. So when it's also tied to your self worth as an individual like that in the same way that it is for reality TV participants, I think it's interesting they're not treated with the same precautions.

[Amanda Montel]

Yeah, well, the last thing I want to know is do you know where I can get my nails done by Amanda Bynes?

[Reese Oliver]

I don't, but if I did, mine would have already made. I will be meeting you in the girls room.

[Amanda Montel]

Hurray. Well, that is our show.

[Reese Oliver]

Thank you so much for listening.

[Chelsea Charles]

Join us for a new episode next.

[Amanda Montel]

Week and as always, stay culty, but not too culty. Sounds like a Cult was created by Amanda Montel and edited by Jordan Moore of the Pod Cabin. This episode was hosted by Amanda Montel, Reese Oliver and Chelsea Charles. Our managing producer is Katie Epperson. Our theme music is by Casey Cole. If you enjoyed the show, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave it 5 stars on Spotify or Apple podcasts. It really helps the show a lot and if you like this podcast, feel free to check out my book the Language of Fanaticism, which inspired the show. You might also enjoy my other books, the Age of Magical Notes on Modern Irrationality and Word A Feminist Guide to Taking Back the English Language Language. Thanks as well to our network studio 71 and be sure to follow the Sounds Like a Cult Cult on Instagram for all the discourse at Sounds Like a Cult Pod. Or support us on Patreon to listen to the show ad free at patreon.com sounds like a cult.

[Reese Oliver]

There's a time.

[Amanda Montel]

And a place for filet of fish.

[Chelsea Charles]

But breakfast is for sausage biscuits. McDonald's breakfast comes first.