Ryan (2:14)

So what are the legal requirements Exactly. And what are the gray areas people can live in? You know, I'm going to ask that.

Unknown Speaker (2:20)

Yep.

Ryan (2:20)

How do I get right up to the line?

Unknown Speaker (2:22)

So black letter law first.

Ryan (2:24)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (2:24)

You need to clearly and conspicuously disclose all material terms of the offer. Nothing new there. Those terms need to be unavoidable, which means like you cannot, absolutely cannot miss them.

Ryan (2:34)

Yep.

Unknown Speaker (2:35)

They also need to be disclosed in.

Ryan (2:37)

They're not buried in your TNCs, not.

Unknown Speaker (2:39)

Buried in your TNCs at the bottom of the page. They also need to be appear immediately adjacent to the consent mechanism. And so the consent mechanism is basically whatever you're using to get the consumer to agree that they're agreeing to a subscription. And the reason that's important is because a lot of people would bury these things in different parts of the webpage. And so like the top of the page might say one thing and then the description is disclosed down below, but you're getting consent up top. That's no longer can you do. Well, you shouldn't have been doing that in the first place, but really, really.

Ryan (3:07)

Can'T do that anymore. And the reason this is really, really at the time, though, but really, we've been saying this, you and I have been saying this for a very long time, but really, really the time really, really.

Unknown Speaker (3:15)

Because the FTC's already come out and they delayed enforcement again. And finally July 14th, the FTC decides we're done. Yeah, you guys have had way too much time to figure out how to figure this out.

Ryan (3:24)

We're sick of old ladies calling pissed off that you've taken their Social Security checks are coming for you.

Unknown Speaker (3:29)

Exactly.

Ryan (3:30)

Okay, so how do I get right up to the line?

Unknown Speaker (3:32)

I think so much of this is now going to be binary. It's like you comply or you don't. You can split test, you can try different things, but if the consumer doesn't know that they're enrolling in a subscription or a membership program or subscribe and save, that's a problem. Like the FTC has come out in every single way and said, this is unlawful, you must disclose the terms. And it's all material term. So it's the price, it's the frequency, it's the fact that, like, if you're giving an incentive on the first offer or the first subscribe and save offer, you need to disclose the. Not only that any sort of discount is applicable only to the first order, but what's the rebuild price? It's like all this needs to be disclosed. You can't miss it. Like, you don't have to use a checkbox. But there isn't going to be a lot of discussion with the FTC anymore. I mean, sure, you're going to run a consumer survey of what is the consumer. You know, did they know they were running a subscription?

Ryan (4:20)

Well, that's how they almost never.

Unknown Speaker (4:22)

Well, yeah, but I mean, that's how we would usually do it. But at the same time, like the FTC is going to say, this is the button you're using to get consent. This stuff isn't appearing anywhere near there.

Ryan (4:29)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (4:30)

So what gives? So I like this topic, but I'm afraid it's going to be much more binary. It's going to be kind of black and white, like split test away, guys. But you really need to done with the days of trying to make this.

Ryan (4:40)

This is a really big deal. And so Perry Belcher and I actually, I'm on another podcast for people who don't know called Train Wreck with Perry Belcher. And we're actually going to be filming an episode next week about how to compliantly do this. And so he's been doing it compliantly for years and years and years, mainly because he doesn't like the idea of people feeling tricked by him because his entire reputation. And he's in a different space. Right. He's not in the supplement space, but he's been doing it for years and years and years. And so we're going to be talking about that. But I will say Apple is. I'm going to sidetrack you a little bit. Have you ever seen an Apple Pay? Apple Pay's compliance is if I'm going to rebill you and they use Apple Pay, it literally says when they go to do the, you know what I'm talking, talking about little click, click, so that your face allows it to go. It literally says right there, you can see it, build every 14 days, build every 13 days, build again in 28 days. And so a lot of the Apple compliance is very easy to understand and read. This is just a side note from operationally. If you go and read the compliance for Apple Pay and you do that, you're probably going to be just fine. But there's going to be some marketing fairy dust that you're going to need to do there by making your products more advantageous to rebuy and rebuy and rebuy.

Unknown Speaker (5:53)

Yeah. And don't forget when we were talking about disclosing all these material terms, no hyperlinks, like, it's very clear that you can't bury this stuff in A hyperlink somewhere, right? So even if you're putting it right next to whatever you're using to get consent to this, hyperlinks aren't going to work.

Ryan (6:05)

What's up? We interrupt this podcast to remind you to like and subscribe so that you can always be in the know of when Ryan and I drop a new episode of Marketing on Trial. Also, sign up at www.specialops podcast.com for our visionary vault and get all of our freebies. I want to talk about the last, the second half and the last bit of this. Now, I've agreed. I know that I've agreed. I get your product and I want to cancel. It can no longer be. I remember one of the best guarantees is years and years and years and years and years ago, one of the best guarantees I ever saw was by a guy named Justin Goff, copywriter in Austin. I don't want to call him a copywriter. He's a business owner, he's a consultant. Like, he's brilliant marketer. And he had this guarantee which was, if you'd like your money back, I want to give you your money back. Write me a letter, mail it in, and I'll give you your money back. No fucking way is anybody going to write a letter. No way. And so what a brilliant guarantee because it's like no questions asked. You write me a letter and I'm giving you your money back. No one's taking the time to write a letter.

Unknown Speaker (7:05)

Never.

Ryan (7:05)

I mean, obviously that would never work. Now, we couldn't do that because of compliance now, but it was absolutely brilliant. Those days are over. I can't even tell customers to call in. What are my regulations? I can't even make it so that they have to write in. What do I need to do to make it so that people can cancel?

Unknown Speaker (7:20)

So anybody that's been doing business in California should be doing this already.

Ryan (7:23)

They're not. So let's explain. No one is. So let's explain it.

Unknown Speaker (7:26)

So you need a very prominent link on your website, somewhere where the consumer goes, clicks on it. It's going to load to basically a preloaded form. The consumer is going to enter their email address or whatever you need to do to find the account and by submitting that form, they're done. That is all that they have to do. Hence the click to cancel moniker. It's you click on this button, you submit your cancellation.

Ryan (7:47)

So I have, I have my regular website. So look me up. Let's say I'm. They want to return my book Shameless Plug My book scope, an operational framework. So I have scope. ReadScope Co is my website for those of you who want my book marketer at heart. But if they want to, well, that's not really a thing because it's not continuity. But okay, let's. It's a supplement. It's a supplement. I've got a supplement. And all it has to be is let's say it's Green leaf Nutrition. So greenleafnutrition.com needs to have on it a way for them to cancel. Even though there's no members area or anything like that. So there has to be a tab somewhere on Greenleaf Nutrition that says cancel your subscription here.

Unknown Speaker (8:27)

Correct.

Ryan (8:28)

And it can't be buried. Let's talk about that.

Unknown Speaker (8:30)

No, I like having it as a tab. Like I mean if you are running a subscription business, if it's only subscription, we can get into where you put that. But if you're selling straight sale and subscription, I like having it at the top.

Ryan (8:41)

Okay.

Unknown Speaker (8:41)

Because it's very, very easy to find. Marketers are not going to like that. They're going to want it at the bottom. Most people are going to put it at the bottom. What is very important though is like it's not in like gray on gray text or very, very small. It needs to be next to everything else. Some websites will just have like a legal kind of heading and it'll have.

Ryan (8:55)

Like your cancellations, something.

Unknown Speaker (8:57)

Manage my subscription.

Ryan (8:58)

Right. Oh man. Is my subscription. That's a brilliant one. Right at the top. Manage my subscription.

Unknown Speaker (9:03)

Yeah. And I don't like some brands will say this is my subscription policy or this will be something other than like it's very clear this is where you go to cancel. Like it needs to be apparent, it needs to be unavoidable. Like just make it easy for the consumers. I think we've told clients, the lawyer.

Ryan (9:19)

I'm just saying. But yeah, you told clients this multiple times because. Because the fines are going to be real.

Unknown Speaker (9:23)

Well, the fines are going to be real. You also don't want people on subscription that don't want to be on there. Like Perry was saying. Right. Like it's your name, it's your brand at stake. So you start losing integrity with consumers. It class action liability. It's just with the FTC now coming in and having civil penalty authority, it is way too much risk. Just not comply.

Ryan (9:42)

Right. I tell people all the time, treat it like your customers are absolutely stupid.

Unknown Speaker (9:45)

Oh truly.

Ryan (9:46)

Like they are stupid. Just because it says an email, a follow up email. So the compliance Rules are you get an email two days before the very first billing. I'm a huge, huge advocate for two days before every billing, every single. And then click here. To manage the cost involved in sending people things that they don't want that they're going to refund is astronomical. I'm from a profitability standpoint, not from a marketing standpoint. Every marketer ever is argued with me.

Unknown Speaker (10:14)

But when they needed chargebacks and the.

Ryan (10:16)

Cost of the goods, most people keep them. Right. So if you're running any kind of recurring revenue model, this episode just saved your business. Ryan and I put together a Click to Cancel compliance checklist to make sure you're ready for July 14th. Download it@special opspodcast.com stay compliant, stay profitable. See you next time. You just watched this whole thing on Click to Cancel, but from the time that we filmed it to the time that you're watching it, things change. So we need to make updates. We still want to put it out there because it's really good information and you should be doing all that anyway. But there are some changes and Ryan's going to update us. So, Rye.

Unknown Speaker (10:56)

So 8th Circuit came out and said rules not enforceable. FTC failed to follow rulemaking procedures. Back to the drawing board.

Ryan (11:03)

So everything we just said, not so much, but.

Unknown Speaker (11:07)

So FTC's rule is not going to affect. So the. Nope. Or the prohibition on no misrepresentations of your product. That's out at the federal level. Problem is California as of July 1st of this year, basically verbatim, click to cancel. So still need to have an online method of cancellation. Needs to be simple and easy to find. Can't misrepresent your products. Still an open question on whether or not that misrepresenting a material characteristic of product as opposed to the subscription or the billing feature is. Is going to be an issue. But. Yeah.

Ryan (11:40)

So the rules haven't changed the regulatory body technically.

Unknown Speaker (11:43)

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So, so still in the same place. Be truthful with your billing disclosures. Get consent to it.

Ryan (11:51)

Lion, you're such a conversion killer. I mean, you never let us lie.

Unknown Speaker (11:54)

I mean, I don't like stealing people's money.

Ryan (11:56)

Oh, such a goody two shoes. Just kidding.

Unknown Speaker (12:00)

I mean, otherwise you guys update.

Ryan (12:02)

Is that there's an update. They're making you think that you don't need to. But I mean, this too.

Unknown Speaker (12:06)

Yeah. I mean, so if you're selling to California, you still got to comply with the same thing.

Ryan (12:10)

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (12:10)

So.

Ryan (12:11)

And probably they're going to switch a few things around to make this back a thing anyway so go ahead and just get compliant.

Unknown Speaker (12:17)

Yeah I mean given that we have a new administration there has been some pushback on whether or not the FTC had the authority in the first place. Is the FTC going to go back through the full rulemaking procedure?

Ryan (12:27)

I don't know but California is going to make you do it anyway and a lot of AGs are going to follow suit. Exactly general.

Unknown Speaker (12:33)

And you still have Rosca out there which is the federal statute that governs a lot of this.

Ryan (12:38)

Wow. It looks like you don't need to comply. You still need to comply.

Unknown Speaker (12:42)

Don't steal people's money.

Ryan (12:43)

Don't steal people's money. We don't like thieves anyway don't listen to our show if you're silly we don't like you but you can like and subscribe. Ryan, thank you so much.

Unknown Speaker (12:54)

Thank you.

Ryan (12:54)

All the other stuff still applies here. We just wanted to interrupt that so that you knew. Thank you so much.

Unknown Speaker (13:00)

Thanks.