B (2:21)

Right.

A (2:21)

And so people just eat it and.

B (2:23)

Or they don't know until they're checking Out.

A (2:26)

Well, yeah. And even if they do, it's just like I don't have the time.

B (2:30)

Right.

A (2:30)

Or the inclination.

B (2:31)

My favorite is when I was buying Hamilton tickets. I love Hamilton. And like, they weren't cheap. They were 600 bucks, but they were like front center bass concert hall in Austin. Like, I love bass, by the way. I think it's a million times better than on Broadway. The acoustics in there are great. The music doesn't overpower the voice. Anyway, I'm so excited. And then I get to the very end when I go to check out and they're over $890 a ticket because of all the extra fees that it didn't tell me about. Meanwhile, like, I'm looking at the way the stand looks from the seats and going through and like playing with the different dates on what end times, on how much money it is so frustrating.

A (3:15)

I've done the same thing with a Paw Patrol event.

B (3:18)

Paw Patrol. So you now know who Emma is and you now know who Ryan is.

A (3:22)

I have two. Two sons.

B (3:24)

Yeah. I'm clearly more fun.

A (3:26)

Very.

B (3:26)

Yeah.

A (3:27)

Anyway, no, but I mean, it's just frustrating because you get to the end and it's like.

B (3:30)

Right. And then you've got more money. And so now you spend an hour looking into the best option. It's probably not the best option, but you don't have another hour because we're frickin busy people.

A (3:38)

Exactly. No. So the ftc and there's a lot of state statutes on this as well, but the FTC came out with a rulemaking and basically said, cut it out. You need to disclose this going to.

B (3:49)

Be before purchase or as long as they disclose before purchase.

A (3:54)

Are they okay, you need to know upfront, up front. Up front.

B (3:57)

Beautiful. Ha ha. Ticketmaster.

A (4:00)

Well, it needs to be clear. Conspicuous up front. You can't bury this somewhere. And it's. It's not just any fee. It's all necessary fees. So like taxes and all the. All the stuff the state taxes on at the end, that doesn't have to be.

B (4:14)

You know what we need to do? We need to go find all the concerts, plays, hotels that we want to stay in. And then we need to have you write them strong letters about this so you get free stuff.

A (4:25)

Sounds like a plan.

B (4:26)

Okay, but go ahead. Sorry. My add. Fired.

A (4:29)

No, but I mean, I think the takeaway from all of this is if there is a mandatory fee that you're charging. And so I'm thinking kind of in the dtc, kind of E commerce space. We love to Charge people a bunch of fees that. Or automatically add fees onto carts that have questionable significance.

B (4:48)

I haven't worked with anybody who does it. I'm sure that's true, but I haven't ever worked with any event, like usually for events in our space anyway. Maybe just the people I work with are just better people. I don't know. But generally, if you see products as, well, you're. It's. Oh, okay.

A (5:03)

Yeah, yeah. So when I said everybody, I mean, it's everyone. So it's not just hotels and concert venues. It's anyone. So if you charge fees to someone like shipping, shipping, or there's like on the front.

B (5:14)

So it has to be on the front. $49.99 plus shipping.

A (5:18)

So it's anything that the consumer has to pay to buy whatever they're buying, whether it's a concert ticket, whether it's a dietary supplement, anything that they absolutely have to buy. The second component of this is, you know, if you are going to charge a fee, it actually has to confer a value.

B (5:36)

And one of the examples, I can't just take money.

A (5:39)

No, I mean, so this, like, I.

B (5:41)

Don'T think you understand our world.

A (5:43)

Right. So there's, you know, the shipping kind of protection fees, when you look at.

B (5:48)

Your terms and shipping protection fees, I feel like I would never charge them. By the way, I think that it's the cost of doing business. And when you're trying to take your cost of being a business owner and put them on someone else, you don't know how to run a business. My perception, however, I do know people who do that and the way that they figure out how much money should be added to each. This is actually very interesting. What's up? We interrupt this podcast to remind you to like and subscribe so that you can also always be in the know of when Ryan and I drop a new episode of Marketing on trial. Also sign up at www.specialopspodcast.com for our visionary vault and get all of our freebies. I just learned about this, actually. What I've seen people do or heard of people doing, I've never seen anybody do this is they take what it costs them to replace lost products throughout an entire year, and then they take the amount that they plan, let's say 10%, they plan on growing that year, and. And they increase it by 10% and then they divide that a dollar amount by the number of orders that they anticipate getting with the growth. And that's how like you end up with these 93 cent insurance fees on the product, which I feel like is, if you have all that data is probably reasonable, I think. Defendable, I think is a better word for that. Well, yeah, that has a value. We cover ship, we cover lost products.

A (7:13)

So if you're disclosing it. Yes, but the examples that I think of is it's like 9.99 shipping protection. It's like. Well, you're gonna. You look at the website terms and the refund and exchange policy and nothing there. You're gonna. Well, no, you're gonna refund this anyway. Like, if I don't get the product, why am I paying you another 10 bucks just for you to make sure that it shows up at my door. What value is in that other than just driving up the price by 10 bucks? And I can argue the other side of it as well. But I mean, the point is anything that any fee that you make it.

B (7:46)

Into the cost of the product.

A (7:48)

Exactly.

B (7:48)

Don't. Don't add nonsense fees.

A (7:50)

Exactly. If you're putting it in people's cart, that's going to be an issue. You want to make sure that they're affirmatively adding it to their cart so it's their decision to add it.

B (7:59)

Have you ever gone into like Apple Pay and then the page said one price and then you see that the Apple Pay dollar amount is a different price.

A (8:08)

I have it.

B (8:09)

Oh, happens all the time. This is very interesting, actually. So it'll show me the page and it'll only have the cost. And then if I choose Apple Pay, Apple Pay tells them where my address is. So they don't have to put shipping costs into the checkout page.

A (8:29)

Sure.

B (8:29)

And so when it goes into Apple, most people won't even notice because you have to actually click on something it is and just pop up. So let's say you're paying 39.99. You could end up paying $52 because your insurance, your shipping costs, your nonsense all gets baked into Apple Apple Pay. And you'll see a lot of these, like, nonsense products on Facebook, Instagram. Like, you know, you're scrolling through and you see. Snap this to the back of your phone and you'll be able to see yourself when you're. It's actually one of the ones that did it to me. That's why. But they're Churn and Burns and they absolutely have that. So that's not going to be allowed anymore either. That's tricky.

A (9:08)

Well, the, the shipping component. Yes. Because like you're never going to know at the offer stage. Right. At the promotion stage, how much shipping is going to cost? Because it's going to be variable, right? If you're.

B (9:17)

But it just should say plus shipping.

A (9:19)

Yeah, plus shipping. Like, you just need to disclose what is going to be added onto it. And then if there are mandatory fees that you are going to charge and it's, you know, outside of the state imposed, you know, taxes and whatever, regulatory fees or whatever, that gets automatically added, you need to make sure that that's included in the price up front. No bait and switch advertising. That's the point.

B (9:41)

You're always saying that, Ryan. You're just a conversion killer.

A (9:46)

Try not to be.

B (9:46)

I'm just kidding. So let's talk about how to revise your language and make sure. So most of the people who are listening to this aren't doing tickets or hotels or whatever. Some people do have Airbnbs and whatnot. But for your average run of the mill direct response e commerce product, what is some of the wording you need to have to make sure that you're being compliant on this side?

A (10:10)

So if you're running a sale, for instance, you know, it's a, it was July 4th a couple weeks ago, you're running a July 4th sale. The price that you're advertising and all your promotional copy, it needs to include all the mandatory fees. So anything that you're going to be charged outside of shipping and handling and taxes and things like that, you need to disclose that. So if there is a shipping insurance or something that they have to pay to get this product, it needs to be disclosed.

B (10:34)

Charging for quality assurance on their products.

A (10:37)

To their customers, that would be one of those things.

B (10:41)

QA inspection, it's like, please make sure that 1495.

A (10:45)

Oh, great. That's ridiculous.

B (10:48)

It's a $300 product. But agreed.

A (10:51)

And I think a good example of this, I was buying a car that I found in California and I really liked the car, got all the way through and then we were talking about the price and all the stuff and they were trying to say that, you know, we've gone through and laser etched this car with all this stuff and it's like they wanted like four grand for it. I'm like, now immediately, this is not a competitive offer anymore. So I've walked all the way through this. I've done the credit check, you've done the whole thing and then you're like ready to sign on the dotted line. It's like, oh, well, sorry, it's going to be an additional four grand, like.

B (11:19)

Granted after a credit check.

A (11:21)

Oh, After a credit check, like I'm ready to sign on the.

B (11:24)

I lose my mind.

A (11:25)

Um, and so that's.

B (11:26)

I'd lose my mind.

A (11:28)

So there are, and this was in California, and there are exemptions for car dealers, at least under California state law. But I mean, that's, that's the type of crap that the FTC is focused on. Like, you can't. It needs to be disclosed on the front end, whether it's a dietary supplement, I'd say a car. But there's, you know, auto dealers get certain exemptions for arguably not the wisest reasons. But, you know, anything that you're going to charge this consumer that they have to pay to get the product or service needs to be disclosed up front.

B (12:01)

Amazing. I'm going to hit the checklist.

A (12:02)

Let's do it.

B (12:03)

Okay, so number one, go through every customer touch point to verify the total price is prominent, including mandatory fees. Update advertising assets to feature total cost, not base price, with hidden charges. Train your team. I say this almost every time. Train your team on new pricing language, compliance, especially sales, design and development, and then set alerts for enforcement, track FTC warning letters, state ag actions, and consumer litigation to make sure that you're staying compliant and up to date. Anything I missed, Ryan?

A (12:42)

I think that's it.

B (12:44)

All right. This is more than a rule. It's a call for transparent pricing and ticketing and accommodation industries, as well as direct response, marketing and E commerce. There's no tricks, no hidden fees, just honest consumer first marketing. Audit your funnels. Update, copy and prioritize upfront clarity or face regulatory issues and lost trust. Grab our free transparency fee toolkit at Visionary Vault on our website. If you're not signed up for the Visionary Vault, go to ww.comspecial OPSpodcast.com and sign up. You've got free tons of in there courses, tools, checklists, stuff me and Ryan have done, stuff the Shockwave team's done, stuff I've done. So head over there and do that. We never try and sell you anything. Make sure you like and subscribe so that you can get notified whenever Ryan and I drop a new podcast. Do what I do, Save money. Listen to Ryan. Thanks, Ryan.

A (13:43)

Thanks, Emma. Sam.