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Follow The Yellow Brick Road
Stop Undervaluing Your Business: Smart Pricing Strategies with Robin Waite
00:28:39
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- [00:03]
A
Hello and welcome to another episode of Special Ops podcast. You'll notice I'm actually filming today remote. It's the first time we don't generally do remote, but I really, really, really wanted to have this. Today's guest on the podcast and unfortunately he's on the other side of the pond, so this is our only option. Please meet Robin Waite. He is a phenomenal author, business coach. He is a force to be reckoned with in the business community. And what a phenomenal human being. Not only does it give back to the business community, but he's also a philanthropist. Today we're going to be talking about Stop undervaluating your business smart pricing strategies with Robin Waite. Robin, will you tell everybody who you are?
- [00:51]
B
Yeah, absolutely. And I appreciate you've made an exception here, Emma, to do it virtually, but next time I'm over in the States, I'll make sure that I give you a call and we'll try and get an in person sorted out as well.
- [01:00]
A
Absolutely, absolutely.
- [01:03]
B
So, yeah, so I've been in business 20 years. My first business, I registered in 2004, it was a marketing agency doing predominantly sort of web design and branding and things like that. And then I won't go too deep into the sort of the backstory because I'm sure you'll have lots of questions that you can sort of probe if you want to go a bit deeper. But in 2016, I went through a little bit of a sort of change in lifestyle. Met my wife, we had a. Our second daughter was on her way. And I realized that agency life really wasn't for me. It was lots of late nights, lots of very difficult clients that we were working with. I had a small, slightly dysfunctional team as well, you know, as a small local agency. But it was causing me a lot of stress. So originally I was going to just sort of wind it up and then it will wind it down. And then eventually somebody actually came in and made me an offer. So they bought me out, which was quite a fun journey to go through. Not for a huge amount of money, but it gave me a bit of freedom and time sort of back. And then people started to hear that I'd actually sold my agency, so came to me, offered me basically coffee and cake, which there's not a lot I won't do for coffee and cake, Emma, I'm not gonna lie. But doing some informal mentoring, really, just to help them sort of grow their agencies and set them up so they could potentially sell them in the future as well. And eventually that Metamorphed into Fearless Business, which is the coaching practice which I run today. We work a lot with other coaches, consultants and freelancers, traditionally anybody who works in that time for money type space. I've worked with bigger businesses as well, up to 200 person law firms and various other businesses. But my heart is with grassroots business owners who are just kind of in the early stages of kind of working up towards six figures and want to learn essentially how they can make more money from doing the amazing work which they do for their clients. Really, it's just regurgitating a lot of the stuff that I went through when I was going through my agency days, which I'm now able to hopefully inspire a few people to confidently charge more for their services.
- [02:55]
A
Love, love that. It's so good to have you. So today what we're going to be talking about is do you want to make your business more profitable? In this episode with Robin, he's going to be sharing proven price strategies to help you grow your bottom line. Don't forget to subscribe to Special Ops podcast for more expert insights. And if you love these tips, this is really, really great. Robin is going to send you a sign designed autographed copy of his latest book. Robin, will you tell them about that and where to go to get it?
- [03:26]
B
Yeah, absolutely. So the book is actually, it's called Take youe Shot. It's a story about one of my first coaching clients. So when I made the pivot into opening up Fearless business and I used to tell this story about the client when I was at speaking gigs, it was a guy called Russ who run who was a golf professional and how I helped him to productize his service and charge more. And then somebody said, well, you should probably put that into a book. So I did. So yeah. And the book, I've got signed copies of it. I will literally ship them anywhere in the world. If any of your listeners would like a copy of it, it's got five very simple business principles in there that I think apply to pretty much every business and they can. If they jump onto Fearless biz forward slash TYs, they'll be able to go and request a copy there.
- [04:04]
A
All right. And that's going to be in the comments as well. So thank you. Or the description. Thank you so, so much, Robin. I'd love to dive in and just start asking you questions. Pricing is, is So I love pricing. I love talking about pricing. I also love fighting about pricing. In my business, we work with many visionary entrepreneurs who pull the prices right out of their Ass. I'm, I'm really excited for this conversation. I would love for you to tell me what are the most common mistakes you see with businesses in creating their pricing?
- [04:34]
B
Yeah, so the, the first mistake is lack of business planning. So I did a study when I first started coaching of about 200 business owners. And the first question in it was, rate your business plan on a scale of 1 to 10. Something like 75% of the people who took that quiz ended up scoring theirs 4 or below. So substandard if they did have one, 26% of them rated it 1 out of 10, which meant that they literally didn't have a business plan. And I think this is one of the biggest challenges, especially for business owners starting out. You know, their mum, brother, sister, whatever says, oh that's a great idea, you should go and start selling that and start set up a business. And they get very enthused about it and they will probably go and look at their competitors and see what they're charging. And the challenge with looking at the competition is that, yeah, they may all be charging similar amounts, but we don't know if those businesses are profitable. So look at your competitors, but don't assume they know what they're doing because you could be about to copy a flawed business model. But on the business planning side of things like this, there's just some really basic calculations that you can do to set your business up for success. So let's say, for example, as a small business owner, if you wanted to earn 100k, which is a realistic target in this day and age to get to, and the next question I would then ask somebody is, well, how much are you going to sell your product or service for? And let's say that person says $1,000. Well, all you do is you take the big number and divide it by the little number and, and then we're sense checking the amount of capacity that person thinks that they, they have. So in this instance it would be okay, so you can deliver 100 products or, you know, deliver your services to 100 clients over the course of next year. And I've given, I've done this calculation in front of thousands of people at various different talks and things like that. And it's at this point everybody looks at their bit of paper with the calculation that they've just done and they, their eyes pop out of their head because they can't believe they're like 100 clients. I've got to deliver 100 clients my first year. So already that's starting to tell us that maybe the business model they're about to launch with is there's a. There's a flaw in it because they weren't going to charge enough. And all we do is. The next question we'd ask after that is, well, how much, like, capacity do you think you've got? Like, realistically, how many products or services could you deliver over the next 12 months? And they might say 20. So again, take the big number, divide it by the little number, and now we've got our price adjusted to $5,000, not $1,000. And again, their eyes pop out of their head like, I couldn't possibly sell something for that much. Who would buy it? That people would be crazy to spend that money. And what we're actually doing is we've got the practical business side of it now, which is where economically we know we need to charge 5K, but immediately there, within about four or five questions, we're also starting to understand, like, the limiting beliefs that somebody's got around their own internal value system. So we're getting both sides of the picture of it now. So just that basic bit of planning up front, you know, and I'm not a big fan of, like, you don't just quintuple your prices and then add no extra value into your products. The idea is that if you charge confidently what you're worth and based on the results and outcomes you deliver for your clients, you've actually created more bandwidth for yourself to be able to stack more value into it and do more stuff. And when you do that, the client gets better results. They typically tend to stick around for longer and spend more money on the back end. It also makes you more referable because you're getting more results. So there's this like, really virtuous cycle to raising your prices, but getting it right from, you know, the word go.
- [07:49]
A
Yeah, I love that. I love that. That's super interesting. I would have gone on and on about cogs. So this is a very, very interesting perspective of how, how it goes. The next thing I'd love to talk about, I'm a, I'm a big retention person and my, as a coo, my, my responsibility on the P and L is the profit margin. Right. So retention is huge in profitability. And I know you have spoken and written on that quite a bit. Could you just kind of, you can create more profit in your business with better retention strategies and what that might look like?
- [08:25]
B
Yeah, absolutely. I think, again, this is just something which far few business owners really take responsibility for. So, like there's the excuse of oh, I'm not very good with numbers. And I like everything in business is about numbers. You mentioned cost of goods sold, you mentioned profit margins, revenue conversion rates, leads, you know, audience engagement and like. Right. The way through business numbers are everywhere. So if you, and I'm not suggesting that just because you're not very good with numbers you shouldn't necessarily start up a business, but at least find somebody who is good with numbers, you know, fractional CFO or somebody like that who can come in and assist you with, you know, understanding the numbers a bit better. But something like profitability, like profit on the bottom line is ultimately what, what is one of the key deciding like success factors ultimately your ability to keep cash and you know, collect cash and keep it. Sorry. And again you will have heard this a lot, a lot of times Emma as well. I've got a cash flow problem. Well, right pret. Every business doesn't have a cash flow problem because if cash flows in, it flows straight back out again. Right. So the cash is freely flowing.
- [09:28]
A
Right. They have a probability problem.
- [09:30]
B
That's it. It's making more money and then learning how to keep that money, retain that cash. And I'm actually more of a fan of cash flow. I prefer looking at a cash flow to see, to define whether a business is successful or not because you can look at a profit and loss financial statement, but that's only on paper. That's not necessarily a true reflection of. Because you can have like a million dollars in profit, but if you have like a 120 day collections, you know, average day collections on your, your bills, you may not collect that million dollars for the next 120 days. Therefore you've got no cash there, which you, you don't have the cash you then you've got no leverage then to be able to reinvest back into the business. So I'm a big fan of cash flow. But to give you an example of like some simple business decisions, especially around pricing that you can make that will influence profit. I worked in the early days I worked with an accountancy practice and they were, this is pounds. So I'll try and convert it loosely into dollars so it makes sense. But they were roughly about two and a half million dollar revenue but only pushing out about $100,000 worth of net profit. And that's so really poorly leveraged.
- [10:39]
A
Need to thoughtfully not worth getting out of bed, is it?
- [10:41]
B
Yeah. And they had, they had a fleet of directors at the top of the company as well. You know, take their cut of the business and things like that. And so the initial conversation was they came to me because they wanted a bit of help, you know, they around marketing, like, how can we get more customers? And I said, well, if we add more customers into the mix, we're actually fueling the fire of lack of profitability here because, like, your business model is clearly flawed. If we go and double your revenue, you're probably not going to make much more profit because your business is set up for profitability yet. Well, what do we do about it then? I said, well, I don't think you're charging enough. And we had the conversation back and forth around whether they thought their client base could, you know, would be open to a price increase and whether new clients coming in. They worked in the franchise space, so it was quite price sensitive. But again, we set the business up for success. So I originally pushed for like a 20% price increase to give them really good leverage behind my back. They settled on 10%, but at least they did go for the price increase. But that the goal was could we push the price increase through within 30 days with the 00 attrition rate? So we didn't lose a single client through that. And where could we actually bring some extra value in for those clients as well? And actually we brought the extra value in with no additional cost, which was great. So that extra $250,000 fell straight to the bottom line in net profit, you know, three, three. And you know, multiplying their net profit up by three and a half times. Still not great for a business of that size. But at least it was a mass where it was before. Actually, what they were then able to do over the course of the next 12 months was to take that extra profit which they'd created. And there was this product they'd been desperate to launch for a long period of time that was into their existing client base, which was somewhere in the order of about $250,000, a package like each for each client they sold it to. So I said, well, why don't you take $100,000 of this profit and put it into like a gala event. Let's get as many clients into a room as we possibly can do over the course of two days. We'll make it a conference with this amazing dinner on the first night and then you're going to do a product launch on there, which I help them to engineer. And they enrolled 12 clients off the back of that event. So all of a sudden now they've more than doubled their turnover. Significantly. And again, pretty much all of that fell to the bottom line as profit. So not only did we end up driving a. Their revenue up to sort of $5 million, but their profit just went crazy at that point, you know, and gave them, gave them huge leverage. So I think again, it's just like, it's understanding which levers you need to pull in order to kind of extract the most amount of cash out of a business.
- [13:18]
A
Yeah, you are speaking my language. Business profitability strategies. I could talk to you all day. I just, I'm. I love this. This is phenomenal. I'd love to just kind of move into some advice for visionary entrepreneurs, people in the direct response marketing, e. Comm space, which is, you know, our primary listeners.
- [13:38]
B
Yeah.
- [13:39]
A
What advice would you give them if they're hesitant to raise their prices? Because like you said, I also believe that there's a big imposter syndrome problem on what they're capable of charging. And they just. And we're going to dive into this a little bit next. But they're trying to trade time for money and so I'd love for you just to give them some advice on that.
- [14:02]
B
Yeah, well, I mean, I have a firm view that time for money hourly rates is fundamentally unethical, which is quite strong language. But I'll explain why.
- [14:10]
A
I would love to hear that.
- [14:12]
B
So imagine if we've got three experts and I'm going to stick with the web designer because that's what I used to do back in the day. So we've got three web designers and you're in the market, Emma, for a website. And web designer number one comes along and he says, right, Emma, it's going to be 50 bucks an hour and it's going to take me roughly 20 hours to build this website. And you're thinking, $1,000 seems fair enough for a startup website, no problem. So you give him the go ahead and off he goes. But what he forgot to tell you was that because he's not charging enough, he's got too many customers because he's quite good. Gift of the gab. He can market and sell really well, but he's too cheap, so he's got too many clients. So it takes him three months before he comes back. What he also neglected to tell you was that he's not been doing it for very long, Emma. So he's not terribly experienced. He forgot the blog and the shopping cart that you wanted. And you're looking at this website thinking, well, that's a dog's dinner. Like that looks ugly. Like, why that's a dog's dinner. So, so, and, and so you, you say, right, I need the blog in the shopping cart. And he says, well, it's going to cost you another 10 hours. And you're thinking, hang on, we agreed on a thousand dollars. This doesn't seem right. And then reluctantly, because he's a good guy deep down, he says, well, I'll do it for you to keep you happy. But you're now feeling resentful because you didn't quite get what you wanted in the first instance and it took too long. He's feeling resentful because he feels that he's had to work for nothing. And so, you know, not really the best grounds for a lasting relationship, really, between a web designer and their client. And that's the first clue, really, that, you know, hourly rates are fundamentally wrong. It's a flawed business model. And there. Not many people would do this, but you could just, it's within the service provider's interests. If they want to make more money, they have to sell more hours. Now, most people wouldn't do that ethically. They would be like, no, I'm not just going to bulk up the hours to make more money. But because you could, that tells us it's wrong. The second web designer comes along and she, she knows a lot more about web design. She's been doing it for ages. But she doesn't know what Emma and Robin know about pricing, right? So she, she goes away. It takes her a week, but billable time, it's only 10 hours. But she's also only charging $50 now, so $500. So how come the one who is more experienced, who does a better job and faster, gets paid less than the guy who's inexperienced and turns your website into a dog's dinner, right? So again, there's our second clue, that hourly rates is a fundamentally flawed business model. And then we get our third web designer. She's an absolute website ninja. She's been doing it for years, but what she really understands is like, website copy, lead generation, conversion. She teaches you how to sell as well as a sideshow to her, you know, building your website or landing page. But there's a catch. Her websites are $10,000. But here's her promise. She says, if I can't get you 15 to 20 really solid qualified leads within the next 30 days, I'll refund you the 10k and I'll pay you $1000 for wasting your time, right? So all of a sudden, you can see hourly rates were like, well, screw that. And I know this is ten times more. But as a serious business owner, each one of those leads is probably worth several thousand or several tens of thousands of dollars to me. So we'll invest in that person who demonstrates confidence and they've got this wonderful sort of cast iron guarantee behind it.
- [17:19]
A
What is your approach on pricing for services versus products?
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B
Yeah, so, so I believe that they're one and the same thing, like services are products, if you think about it. So absolutely. If, if you've got, essentially there's three kind of things that you get when you get by a product. So you get a clearly defined outcome. You know what outcome result you're going to get when you buy that product. You know, if you sitting. I don't know who would want to buy a Tesla these days with the way Elon Musk, you know, is there. But you know, I love what he does with the cars.
- [17:52]
A
I think, I think every American, by the way. So yes, I personally can't plug a car in because I wouldn't remember to.
- [17:59]
B
But yeah, so I, I love him because I think he's like a true entrepreneur. But there's, it's very divided over here. But you know, I'm sure what you buy a Tesla for is that feeling of when you get into that car and you can do four seconds, naught to 60 and how it makes you feel.
- [18:13]
A
And I think, I think my business partner bought his because of the video games he can play in his garage in them.
- [18:19]
B
Well, even better, you don't get that on a, even a Prius or a VW Golf, do you? So.
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A
Right, right.
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B
So, so we've got to think about what is the dream outcome with delivering and ideally can it be delivered in a fixed period of time. So I know with cars often there's a waiting time, but you do, once you've designed it and put your order in, it will arrive within a certain time period. And then you can drive off the forecourt or it might even just be on the forecourt so you can drive it off. And then the third thing is, can you buy it for a fixed fee? Well, yes, things like cars, you can. So we've got to look at how we can align services with those three sort of metrics and thinking about that sort of web designer. Well, if you can build a website which produces 20 qualified leads a month and she can do it within seven days and she's going to charge 10k for it. Well, there's pretty, there's not many services which you can't Package up like that. It gets a bit more complicated when you and sort of go into the realms of like mind, body and spirit. So like a therapist for a physical therapist, for example, couldn't promise to make you better within a certain time period because that's that again, that crosses like an ethical line. But for most traditional services, especially in the B2B world, you know, you can, you can align those three sort of metrics to it.
- [19:32]
A
Wow. Incredible. So interesting. We kind of need to wrap up. I don't want to. I could stay and talk to you for hours. But the pricing strategies for gross, the boosting revenue through pricing, the improving pricing for business, like everything that you've talked about today has just been absolutely phenomenal. Just as my last question for you, if you wanted to leave my listeners with one thing, one thing that they should do for profitability, for business growth. What's one thing that they should do today that's actionable and can be done in a day?
- [20:08]
B
Yeah, I mean, so raising your prices again, it doesn't have to be like double your prices or something crazy like that. So there's this exercise which I take clients through. Do you want to, we could, I could try and demonstrate it with you, Emma. It's a coaching process effectively. So if you could, if there was like a product or service which you, you wanted to productize and sell for yourself. Can you think of one and can you, can you tell us what it is?
- [20:35]
A
I have one currently. It's, it's a workbook. It's operation or a foundational framework for businesses. It's $97. It's called the wave workbook.
- [20:48]
B
Okay. And what can people kind of expect out of that as a result or outcome?
- [20:52]
A
Sure. So they walk away with 10 year target for what they want for their business. They walk away with milestones for five years, three years and then they walk away with one year commitments. Notice I didn't say goals. They're committed to getting things done this year. They walk away with an understanding of the services or products that their business provides. We call it absolute focus. No squirrels, no shiny objects. And then they walk away with their avatar, not for their customer, but for their employee who works for you, who represents you. What, what is their morals and values. And so it sets them off to be able to hit that target in 10 years instead of having a bunch of employees in canoes rowing in different directions because no one knows what the goals are.
- [21:40]
B
Okay. Let's say for example, if you had to place a guarantee on that, that would, I Don't know. Cost you a sum of money. If you, if they didn't achieve their goal within 10 years, what would you have to do or bolt onto that in order to get them the outcome? Well, let's, I tell you what, let's take a slightly different track. We're getting there, don't worry. I'm, it's, we'll get there in a second.
- [21:59]
A
I trust you.
- [22:00]
B
Yeah. So with, with the done with you offer, do you mind sharing how much that is virtual?
- [22:07]
A
If we do virtual, it's 997. If we do in person, it's 5,000.
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B
Okay.
- [22:12]
A
And both are group.
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B
So my hunch is that if somebody transformed their life over the course of the next 10 years, that that's kind of virtually priceless in terms of what they could achieve.
- [22:22]
A
Absolutely, absolutely.
- [22:24]
B
So my view is that possibly 997 is too cheap.
- [22:28]
A
For virtual.
- [22:29]
B
For virtual, yeah.
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A
Okay.
- [22:31]
B
Would you agree?
- [22:32]
A
I think it's way too cheap.
- [22:34]
B
Okay. Is there a, is there a world in your future and you get to decide on when it is? Is there a world in your future for virtual where maybe you're charging, I don't know, 10k for it?
- [22:44]
A
Absolutely.
- [22:45]
B
So what we've established here is something called pricing bandwidth or just value based bandwidth. So we've got 9,000 ish numbers roughly from 997 up to 10k. Okay. 10ks in the future. 997s today. And you've agreed with me? Yeah, maybe it's a little bit on the low side. We could do a bit of work with that. Okay. So what I'm going to do now is we're going to, I'm going to say some numbers. You don't necessarily have to say anything back to me, but just trust your intuition. Just lean into whatever your body tells you at this point, like when the number, you know. So I won't, I won't lead the witness too much here. Okay, so997, we're going to start at so twelve hundred dollars, fifteen hundred dollars, eighteen hundred dollars, two and a half thousand dollars. Three thousand dollars. Three thousand six hundred. This is, imagine if, imagining if you're going to sell it today at the new price. $3,600. 4,200, 4,500. You got quite, quite pursed lips there. Are you kind of reaching a point or can we carry on going?
- [23:42]
A
I think I've reached the point.
- [23:44]
B
You've reached a point. Where did you reach the point? It was for me it looked about three, six to four, two. I think Was three six.
- [23:49]
A
Yeah.
- [23:50]
B
Great. So I'll just explain what was kind of going on there. Pricing is mostly based on emotions. It's our internal value system and our ability to be able to communicate that to other people. Okay. When. But when we try and solve pricing problems like we did at the start with the mathematical, you know, workings of our business plan, we're trying to solve the pricing problem intellectually, and quite often the two don't meet. So you ended up at 997, but you're unconscious. Your subconscious there just told us, actually, it's more likely 36 is what you truly believe that program is worth. So how confident would you feel about taking that to the market in the future? Probably everybody listening to this is like, damn you, Robin. This is going to cost me more now if I want to work with it.
- [24:33]
A
Yeah, no, it makes a lot of sense. It really does. It makes a lot of sense. And it's the same thing I preach, right? Like, don't undervalue yourself and what you're capable of doing. Yeah.
- [24:43]
B
I'm going to make a bet with you. You're gambling gambler. Emma, do you like.
- [24:48]
A
I'm. I only gamble when I absolutely 100 know I'm gonna win. By the way, Perry Belcher, you still owe me a thousand dollars, but. Yeah, but sure, let's play a game.
- [25:01]
B
We're. Have a bit of fun now, okay. Because I don't want you to lose this bet, right? So when you're. You don't have to do it, like straight away tomorrow, but at some point in your future when you're feeling confident, you think, actually, yes, Robin, I think he was right. Let's. Let's go with that. The 3 6. I want you to pitch 10 people in a row at 36 for the online program.
- [25:23]
A
Okay?
- [25:24]
B
But here's the catch, right? If you pitch your 10 and you get 10 no's at 3 6, I'll buy it from you for $3,600. And now we've got however many witnesses there are now listening, watching this, who heard me say that, So I will be your first customer for it. All I ask, though, because I think it should be fair as well on both sides, is that if you get to five and you've had five no's at six, that you just give me a call and we do a coaching session together on like just around sales, and I'll. We'll talk about the value and what's going on for you and why you feel the five hasn't come through. Just to swing the odds a little bit in my favor, at least of like, somebody purchasing this because it's going to be much more authentic if somebody actually buys this, other than me, obviously.
- [26:07]
A
Right, right, right.
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B
The other caveat to this is I would love it if you're able to document somehow those conversations. So whether that's like a Fathom transcription or you record it on zoom or however you choose to do it, we're.
- [26:19]
A
Going to do this in February. I'm in the middle of, I'm in the middle of a promo right now, so I can't switch it up. My team will kill me. But, well, second run is February. We're going to up the prices and we'll do this in February.
- [26:30]
B
Great. So. But like I said, you can't lose this bet because at least you've got me as a client at 3, 6. And then you can go back. Now do you see what we've done there? We've, we've gone raised your prices by, you know, 3.6 times virtually.
- [26:44]
A
Yeah.
- [26:44]
B
In a very short space of time. And I do. Genuinely believe. And tell me otherwise, but I feel like you believe we've hit on a number there that you, you, you truly.
- [26:51]
A
I do, I do, I do.
- [26:54]
B
Now, the process that we went through where I incremented the numbers, that is what I would recommend people do. So make a commitment to raise your prices. It doesn't have to be double or triple or whatever, but if you're charging $1,000 for something, maybe the next few people that you speak to quote them 1,200 for it. Or the next few people, 1500. Like, sell a few. Build your confidence up, learn what is it that they're actually attaching the value to. And then as you get more confident, just incrementally raise it a little bit. The biggest mistake people make is that they raise their prices once a year and by maybe 5 or 10%. Right. Which idiot made that rule up? Okay, this is the point where you can make 3, 4, 5 price incremental price increases over the course of 12 months. And by the end of next year, you'll be looking at, you know, potentially you will be charging double or triple your rates as your confidence kind of grows. And I truly believe the best business is, like, one way. You've got half the clients but double the income. It's. That's a far better business. Far better for family, certainly. Mrs. Wait. And the kids.
- [27:56]
A
Amazing. Robin, thank you so much. Again, if you enjoyed this conversation, which I hope you did, you should have it's been incredible, please visit it's www.what is it for your book, Robin.
- [28:10]
B
Yep. Fearless Biz tys for Take your shot.
- [28:14]
A
And that's going to be in the description for a signed copy of Robin's latest bestseller, take youe Shot. Thank you so, so much, Robin. Appreciate you. And www.specialopspodcast.com, visit our visionary vault where you can find all kinds of tips and tricks. And stay tuned for next time. Thank you, Robin, so very much.
- [28:36]
B
My pleasure. Thank you.