The Slow Quiet Bleed Killing Your Business: How to Fix It Fast | Yara Golden

Summary

Podcast Summary: Special Ops Episode – "The Slow Quiet Bleed Killing Your Business: How to Fix It Fast | Yara Golden"

Release Date: April 29, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of the Special Ops podcast, host Emma Rainville delves deep into a pervasive yet often overlooked issue plaguing growing businesses: the misalignment between marketing and operations teams. Joined by Yara Golden, a seasoned expert in crafting cohesive marketing messages, Emma explores how this disconnect can lead to a "slow, quiet bleed" that undermines business profitability and efficiency. Together, they provide actionable strategies to bridge this gap swiftly and effectively.

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Misalignment Between Marketing and Operations

Different Languages and Approaches

Emma opens the conversation by highlighting a common problem: when marketing teams and operations teams are not on the same page, it leads to inefficiencies and financial losses. Yara echoes this sentiment, emphasizing that marketing thrives on creativity and ideation, while operations focus on tangible, data-driven execution.

Emma Rainville [03:00]: "Marketing really wants to have that freedom to play and explore and ideate and brainstorm and be creative."

Yara Golden [03:55]: "Ops is very much the language that they use is very much tangibles, like on the ground and black and white."

This fundamental difference creates a communication barrier, where marketing's expansive ideas clash with operations' structured execution, leading to frustration on both sides.

Communication Challenges

The duo delves into specific examples of miscommunication, such as marketing launching campaigns that operations can't support, resulting in failed fulfillment and wasted resources. Emma shares personal experiences of planning meetings with unclear directives, leading to inefficiencies and abandoned initiatives.

Emma Rainville [05:19]: "We have to do that. And then I go do it. And then I come back and they're like, oh, that was just an idea. That idea sucked."

Yara discusses the chaotic back-and-forth that ensues when operations is task-oriented, and marketing is vision-oriented, often leading to cycles of unfulfilled promises and unmet expectations.

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Strategies to Align Marketing and Operations

Wave Framework

Yara introduces the "Wave" framework, a foundational approach designed to synchronize the visions and actions of marketing and operations. This framework emphasizes commitments over goals, fostering a culture of accountability and clarity.

Yara Golden [14:30]: "I'm committed to doing that, I know what that looks like in all of these other areas."

By shifting from vague goals to explicit commitments, businesses can ensure that both teams are working towards the same objectives with clear expectations.

Creating Clear Communication

Emma underscores the importance of structured communication tools and processes to bridge the gap between departments. She advocates for clear articulation of business metrics and operational requirements to prevent marketing from overpromising.

Emma Rainville [16:02]: "If you don't have marketing and operations aligned, you're losing money, period."

Implementing frameworks like Wave and Scope helps in establishing a common language, ensuring that both teams understand their roles and contributions towards the company's success.

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Impact on Business Culture

Toxicity and Its Effects

A significant portion of the discussion centers on how misalignment fosters a toxic work environment. Yara and Emma share anecdotes about internal conflicts, passive-aggressive behaviors, and the detrimental effects of leaders who fail to harmonize departmental goals.

Emma Rainville [37:16]: "22 to 1. And like they'd be in the bathroom different. They, they'd come in, oh, I'm a COO..."

Such toxicity not only hampers productivity but also deteriorates team morale, making it imperative for leadership to address these cultural issues head-on.

Leadership's Role in Culture

The conversation highlights that leadership sets the tone for organizational culture. Emma emphasizes the necessity for leaders to model effective communication and conflict resolution to prevent the spread of negativity.

Yara Golden [40:20]: "Like, if you have a leader who's rolling their eyes at ops and is like, 'Whatever. They're here because we have to have them.'"

By fostering an environment of respect and collaboration, leaders can mitigate conflicts and promote a more cohesive and productive workplace.

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Practical Tips and Insights

Emma and Yara provide actionable strategies for business owners to align their marketing and operations teams:

1. Implement Structured Frameworks: Adopt models like Wave and Scope to establish clear objectives and processes.
2. Promote Open Communication: Encourage teams to ask questions and seek clarification to ensure mutual understanding.
3. Foster a Growth Mindset: Approach inter-departmental conflicts with curiosity and a willingness to learn from each other.
4. Address Toxicity Promptly: Leaders must intervene early to prevent the spread of negative behaviors and maintain a healthy work environment.
5. Leverage Leadership Skills: Utilize the strengths of both marketing and operations leaders to bridge communication gaps and enhance collaboration.

Yara Golden [50:17]: "Have that transcribed, put in SOP and like, now we have a description for, like, what an abandoned cart sequences."

These tips are designed to help businesses navigate the complexities of team dynamics, ensuring sustainable growth without the chaos typically associated with scaling.

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Conclusion

Emma Rainville and Yara Golden wrap up the episode by reiterating the critical importance of aligning marketing and operations to prevent financial leakage and foster a harmonious work environment. They encourage listeners to adopt the discussed frameworks and strategies to enhance inter-departmental collaboration, ultimately driving business success.

Emma Rainville [51:11]: "If you don't have marketing and operations aligned, you're losing money, period."

Listeners are invited to download the free Marketing and Ops Alignment Playbook from www.specialopspodcast.com to implement these strategies in their own businesses.

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Key Takeaways

• Alignment is Crucial: Harmonizing marketing and operations is essential to prevent inefficiencies and financial losses.
• Different Languages: Marketing's creative ideation and operations' execution require a common framework for effective communication.
• Structured Frameworks: Tools like Wave and Scope can bridge the gap between departments, fostering collaboration.
• Leadership Matters: Leaders must actively cultivate a positive culture and address toxic behaviors to maintain team morale.
• Actionable Strategies: Implementing clear communication channels, fostering a growth mindset, and addressing conflicts promptly are vital for business success.

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For more insights and actionable strategies, subscribe to Special Ops on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube, and take your business to new heights with Emma Rainville's expert guidance.

Transcript

[Emma Rainville]

Welcome to another episode of Special Ops Podcast. I'm Emma Rainville, your host and this is where we bring actionable insights to direct response marketers and e commerce sellers. I'm Deb, the wizard of ops. I'm super glad that you joined us today. Please make sure to like and subscribe and then join us over at www.specialopspodcast.com. sign up in our members area called the Visionaries Vault for tons of freebies, tons of courses, checklists. All right, listen up. If your marketing team is running in one direction and your operations team is constant playing cleanup, you've got a real problem and it's costing you real money. When marketing over promises and ops can't keep up, you don't just have inefficiency, you have a slow, quiet bleed that can really hurt your business. I've seen businesses scale to eight and nine figures only to hit a wall because they've ignored this exact issue. And today we're going to fix it and fast. Welcome to Special Ops where we cut the fluff and dive straight into what actually works in scaling businesses. And today I have on Yara Golden. Yara is a master at crafting the kind of messages that don't just sell, but actually align teams, making sure the hype doesn't outpace reality. She's worked with some of the biggest names in direct response, and today we're talking all about marketing and operations and how they are constantly at war and how to get them working together before your business pays the price. If you've ever had a campaign go viral only for your fulfillment to collapse under the weight of it, or if your marketing team is promising the world while your ops team is secretly panicking in the background, this one's for you. Oh, and by the way, before we dive in, I put together a really great resource for this episode. The Marketing and Ops Alignment Playbook. The three Step framework for scaling Without Chaos. If you want that exact framework to make sure your marketing doesn't outpace your operations and vice versa, grab it for free. Inside the visionary vault at www.specialopspodcast.com vault. No sales, no upsells, just straight value. I'm super excited you're back again. We never left.

[Yara Golden]

I'm back again.

[Emma Rainville]

We'll sprinkle it out though. I want to talk. We've talked a lot about marketing, about ops. We kind of keep hitting the same thing over and over again, but it's because it's so freaking important. I want to talk about marketing and ops and how they speak Two different languages. And I kind of want to work through that for a minute. Okay, so tell me, in your experience, what have you found the marketing languages or. Actually, I'll tell you what I think the marketing language is, and you tell me what you think the ops language is. Let's stop there. Let's talk through that. What are some of the things that Operations has said or done that just was complete confusion?

[Yara Golden]

I don't know that it's as much confusion as not what the marketing team necessarily wants to hear. Right. There's a lot of talk of things being data driven and, you know, bottom line and conversions and I mean, I think that they're all things that, yes, are important to marketing, but in the grand scheme of things, marketing really wants to have that freedom to play and explore and ideate and brainstorm and be creative. Where I feel that ops is very much the language that they use is very much tangibles, like on the ground and black and white, Right. And so it's very funny. I'm like staring at the back of your computer and it's like the left brain is the logical side. It's the opposite of the business. It's black and white, and the right side is this, like, rainbow of colors. Right. And it's just kind of like spilling out.

[Emma Rainville]

Can I tell you, I've never even noticed that one side was black and white. And I knew that they were different, but it like, never dawned on me. One is black and white and one is colored.

[Yara Golden]

Oh, my God.

[Emma Rainville]

It never even dawned on me.

[Yara Golden]

Right? So that, that's, that's kind of the difference in the languaging to me. It' like, I feel like whenever I go into an ops conversation, it's very black and white. It's bullet points. It's, you know, these are the things that are happening. It's actual. It's actual, it's real, it's tangible. On the creative side, it's like, well, what if and could we. And, you know, what's possible? It's possibility. And it's very, like, expansive where I feel ops. It's not that it's constricting. It's not. It's just channeled. And so I think, I don't know, like, I'm opening my arms, right? It's like one is. Is kind of out here up in the air and very exploratory. And the other one is like, findings. These are the findings. And this is what's going to set our direction and plot our course forward. And so that's kind of what I.

[Emma Rainville]

Hear, anyway, similar experience. I deal with marketing, and they're like, we need to do this, and we need to get this, and we need to launch this, and we have to do that. And then I go do it. I've learned not to, by the way. I'll go do it. And then I come back and they're like, oh, that was just an idea. That idea sucked. We're not doing any of that. Why'd you spend that money? Yeah, we sat in a planning meeting, and we outlined what I needed to go accomplish, and I just spent two weeks accomplishing it. What do you mean?

[Yara Golden]

Well, because OPS hears meeting, and they're like, planning, meeting?

[Emma Rainville]

Why else would we get on a.

[Yara Golden]

Meeting, Marketing hears meeting, and they're like, brainstorm.

[Emma Rainville]

No, we don't do that. We don't do that. We brainstorm with our notebooks, and then we come to a meeting.

[Yara Golden]

You can't brainstorm storm by yourself.

[Emma Rainville]

Yes, you can.

[Yara Golden]

Well, I mean, you can way more.

[Emma Rainville]

Effectively, so you get way more fun.

[Yara Golden]

Right?

[Emma Rainville]

So you get all your ideas identified so that you're. You actually have something to accomplish when you walk away. I know that's difficult for you to understand, but I'm going to brainstorm my ideas, my challenges with my ideas, and then I'm going to show up at a meeting, share those with other people, get feedback, and we're going to leave with an action plan.

[Yara Golden]

That's such a logical way to do it, though, right? Well, because for me, I'm like, well, if I bring an idea to you now, we can talk about the idea, and it'll get better as we go.

[Emma Rainville]

Right. But if I have it organized first, I can leave with action steps versus another meeting. Right, right, right. You're gonna leave with another meeting. Yes, I'm gonna leave with a plan.

[Yara Golden]

Well, now I have OPS people on my team, so I do leave with a plan.

[Emma Rainville]

But you change your mind about that plan as soon as you walk away with it.

[Yara Golden]

For sure. As soon as they're not looking, I'm like, okay, there's plenty of Belcher.

[Emma Rainville]

You're like, bel, ride home. Hey, you know that whole thing we just did? I had a better idea and has nothing to do with that idea.

[Yara Golden]

You're like, that's actually a whole other business.

[Emma Rainville]

Oh, my God, the amount of times. And he'll be like, well, here's why it's not.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

And I want to talk about this because operations thinks in execution.

[Yara Golden]

Totally.

[Emma Rainville]

And marketing thinks in ideas, and that sucks. And is amazing at the same Time, Right. Because you, like, you have to, have to, have to explain yourself. And neither one wants to. Yeah, this is what we're doing. You hear maybe sort of, kind of you say, here's the product we should launch. I hear, go get this done.

[Yara Golden]

Right.

[Emma Rainville]

And if you're not explaining yourself, like, hey, I don't have a fully fleshed out idea, something you would never say. I'm not ready to execute on any of this yet. I just want to chat about it. I absolutely love those conversations, by the way. That tells me, do not give feedback. Listen to what I'm saying. Ask me questions that leads me down the path I need to go on. Don't input right now because I don't have anything to input anyway.

[Yara Golden]

Right.

[Emma Rainville]

Again, you don't want to give challenges to ideas that haven't been flushed out yet because you want them to flourish. You don't want to dim, dim the light.

[Yara Golden]

Right.

[Emma Rainville]

And so I can ask you a whole bunch of ideas. Oh, that's really great. I can know, like, there's no way that we can sell that product for 19 bucks because it's a manufactured product.

[Yara Golden]

Right.

[Emma Rainville]

And it's a supplement. So I'm looking at, you know, whatever. So I.

[Yara Golden]

Well, this is a thought exercise, right?

[Emma Rainville]

Well, how do you. Oh, this happens instantly in my head. Instantly in my head. All I see is chat.

[Yara Golden]

No, but I mean, you're holding the space for the thought exercise.

[Emma Rainville]

Right, Right, right, right. We're gonna, we're gonna have. I call it brain dump. I don't like brainstorm. Brainstorm is a two way thing. You're gonna brain dump all this on me, right. And I'm gonna organize it for you and ask you questions that help you decide. Do we move forward with this? Am I in this for the challenges that may come up?

[Yara Golden]

Right.

[Emma Rainville]

Or do I want to go find another idea and we can do a brain dump? And I've worked with some visionary entrepreneurs. We had scheduled brain dumps. They kept a notebook and they would go through the notebook and they would leave all their ideas because otherwise they'd call me every day and I'd be. Yeah, but by the time they got on a call with me, they, they'd be going through their notebook. No, no, no, no, no. But then I get dumped on the things that kept coming up for them and the stuff that keeps coming up from them that now can be filtered down with some questions and some, some insight. Not guidance, but insight on what they should be thinking about.

[Yara Golden]

Refined.

[Emma Rainville]

Right? But that personality type and this personality type are really hard to find. And then when you do find them. I don't fight with anyone more than I fight with my visionary entrepreneur.

[Yara Golden]

Right.

[Emma Rainville]

And if we're not. And, and it's a respectful. Like, I don't think that's, you know.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

And they, you know, you know how it ends up. You've been in those arguments. It ends up like a really heated debate. Nobody really has an ego in it, but it's a really heated debate because they have to hear you. Because you're trying to stop them from making a mistake that, you know is a mistake. Sometimes you gotta let them fall a little bit. I mean, you get it. So I'd love to hear how like the best, I'm gonna call it, integrator or operator that you ever worked with and how they've been able to reshift your thinking or help you have a brain dump.

[Yara Golden]

Well, honestly, like my, my partner James is like the, the best operator. Integrator. You kind of have to say that.

[Emma Rainville]

You kind of have to say that.

[Yara Golden]

But yeah, I would.

[Emma Rainville]

But you guys have worked together for as many years as you've worked together. Because there's a synergy there.

[Yara Golden]

Absolutely. And, and it's absolutely true. Or I wouldn't say it like, if I was like, oh, like Emma was the best. Right? Like, I would, I would totally say it.

[Emma Rainville]

Well, we've never worked together. That's why Evan is not the best. But, but no, and, but you've worked with him 11 years, right? You guys have worked together 11 years. You wouldn't be working in the same business if it didn't work. So obviously it's working for you.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah, it is working for us. And I think that, I think the, the, the reason that I say that is because of how much I've grown. Because I think that, I think that at the end of the day, the operations of the business is what is driving the business forward. Like, I think that operations is the engine, but marketing is the gas. Right.

[Emma Rainville]

And so that's, that is such a great way of putting it.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah, it's the gas. And so, but, but I, I'm not like the gas by itself is just going to combust and like be a friggin fire.

[Emma Rainville]

And an engine with, with an empty gas tank is going, going nowhere.

[Yara Golden]

And so I think that my ability to even recognize that and articulate that is a testament to how much I've learned from him. Right. And so not fighting back on those brain dumps, I guess that you're calling them like for me I've learned to say, hey, I have a half baked idea. Right? And so that signals this isn't like, let's go run after this thing right now and we have to do it yesterday. It's, I'm thinking through this. I'm, I'm mulling this over. Like I'm, you know, it's an idea. Is it a seed? Is it underground? Am I digging it up? Like, is it sprouting? Like, is it a friggin tree? All right. Like we don't know where care on the process. This is. Right. Like even now it's like, is it gasoline? Is it a cake? Is it a seed? Like no one freaking knows, right? We're in this real time. And I think that that's super important to have that space where you can be like, I'm just in the sandbox playing right now. Like, you don't have to take this so seriously. And for somebody to be able to also hold up the business metrics and goals where they're just like, okay, well that idea dump that you just did, how does that, how does that tie to what we're trying to accomplish over here? Because sometimes the idea that you have could be based on a show or you went to a mastermind and someone said something really cool is working in their business and all of a sudden.

[Emma Rainville]

You'Re, you guys did the wave in your business, right?

[Yara Golden]

We did do the wave.

[Emma Rainville]

So what my favorite thing to do is tell me how it aligns with that.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

If I don't, if I don't want to fuck with something and I'm just like, I'm just going to do it. I just put, if you haven't been to my house yet, have you. In my office, I have all of them that I'm working on in posters or postcard form all throughout my office. And I'll just go, how does that align? Yeah, I need you to tie that in for me. And if they can't.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

And then I say, so how much time did you spend on this that you could have been focused on that? So yeah, I love that. I love that.

[Yara Golden]

But it's hard, right? Because as a creative, like you get, you're like, ooh, ooh, like shiny thing, shiny thing, shiny thing. And it's like, well, do you go off and chase that or do you chase the thing that you said that you were gonna do? And I think actually going, going to the wave. I think one of the things that was so impactful for me when we were sitting there was that what we're.

[Emma Rainville]

Talking about really quick is I have a foundational framework called Wave and it's where you do your written vision, your absolute focus, your values, future and your execution plan. It's basically the foundational framework that your business lives and breathes off of for eternity.

[Yara Golden]

But the thing that you said that I thought was so amazing was that you don't do goals, you do commitments. And I think for the longest time I'd had such a difficult time with goals because I'm not a very visual person. So it's not like imagine you having it and see five years into the future. I'm just like, I'm right here, right now, I'm in the moment. But I know what a commitment is and when I commit to.

[Emma Rainville]

That's why all the long term stuff has silly names like flash forwards and pictures. Yeah, it's a picture of where we're trying to go. That's going to change throughout. But what are we committed to this year?

[Yara Golden]

Yeah, but. And I think that that was super, super big for me. It was like, what am I committed to in my business? Because I know what a commitment is in a relationship. I know what a commitment is in friendship. I know what a commitment is with like my body. Like, I know what that is. It's like I said, I'm going to do something and I'm going to do it. And when I, when I would get into the world of like goals, I was just like, well, it's a goal. Like I'm trying to do that. And it felt very like wishy washy. And that doesn't lead to execution. Right. But when I was like, well, I'm committed to doing that, I was like, ooh, that feels different. And I know what that looks like in all of these other areas. So I have evidence of what, how I'm supposed to show up in order to make that happen. And so that helped. Right. And it's made a real difference in how I show up. I love that on the upside of the business, like I've actually, I think that probably in the last three to four months, like my ability to even have a conversation about ops has completely shifted because I'm like, I know what I've committed to and it means that I have to show up differently and I have to do things that I may not want to do or that may not be super fun, like they are on the creative side for me, but I know that it's still a part of the vision that I have and the goals that we've set for ourselves in the company. And so that's really cool.

[Emma Rainville]

I really love that. Yeah, I really love that. That's amazing.

[Yara Golden]

I don't know how that has to do with like language between operators and creators.

[Emma Rainville]

Well, the whole, one of the whole reasons that I created both wave and Scope was because there wasn't enough transparency in the vision of the business. In every business I went in and then there wasn't a cadence on how we did things and how each department, every department's most important department. If it wasn't for the copywriter, the product wouldn't sell. If it wasn't for operations, the product wouldn't sell. If it wasn't for customer service, there wouldn't be any customers. If it wasn't for marketing, there wouldn't be. Every single department is equally as important. That's why they all exist. Miss one piece of it and you don't have a functional business. So it's when you have companies that, and it's usually like because the owner of the company is that role, they think that role is the has all be all to everything. I'm an operator. I know that many companies can survive without operations. Many, many, many, many, many, many, many companies. They're probably not going to make a ton of money. And when I say make a ton of money, I don't mean revenue, I mean profit. They're probably going to have a lot more fires, but they could survive. An operator with a half baked idea and load execution can survive without good marketing. They could become a marketer and we're not marketers and we could do okay. You probably have a high profit margin but low revenue. Yeah, right. So it's a formula for a reason. And so it's not that the company would die without any one of you. It's that every single one of you is intricately important to the business.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah, right. Well, but I think that you've got it like part of the magic there is seeing that and understanding that and everybody.

[Emma Rainville]

Right. And everybody understanding the goal. Because the goal is the same for everybody.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah, and stay in your lane. For God's sakes, just stay in your lane.

[Emma Rainville]

But this is why I created those, those two programs. Because one's a foundational framework and one's an operational framework on how we move things forward. And if you have very clear understanding of what everybody's contribution is to how we move forward, the cadence by which we move forward and the cadence in which we communicate and execute on those things, I mean there's just. You show up in A different way. Everyone shows up in a different way, and everyone's able to contribute and have an understanding of how to hold space for each other.

[Yara Golden]

I do think, though, you know, it's really interesting.

[Emma Rainville]

Here we go.

[Yara Golden]

Well, it's interesting that we're talking about, like, marketing and ops, right? Because I think as I'm hearing you talk, I'm like, oh, my God. Like, all that sounds, like, super boring. And I know, but I. It's so true. I'm just being totally. I know because I.

[Emma Rainville]

Because I freaking tell you.

[Yara Golden]

No, I think it's super important. But I'm. I'm just like. I guess I'm. I'm having an idea, right? An idea baby that's half baked. But it's like, I think that as you're talking about it, I'm like, yes, all of the things that you're saying are true. Like, there has to be a cadence. There has to be execution plans. There has to be all of these things. But I wonder why the marketing team doesn't do a better job of, like, selling that vision to the rest of the team and the rest of the company. Because I think that that's what wave is, right? Like, when you do the wave, you're just like, hey, like, let's wrap all of this operational stuff in marketing so that you can actually, like, we're gonna wrap the pill in some cheese so that you can actually swallow it, and it's gonna make you feel better, and you're gonna get more shit done, and we're gonna make more money, and everyone's gonna be happier. But most people don't take the time to do that. And I think that that's actually. I'm having, like, an aha. I think that's the role that I'm stepping into in our company, because I'm like, I'm a marketer. I'm a creative. But I now have, like, bridged the gap between ops and marketing. And I'm like, hey, everyone, we're going to have a process party next week on Thursday, right? And so we have process parties where we all get together and we're just like, all right, we're going to figure out best way for us to move, move this forward. And all I did was call it a process party. And it's like a little, like, we just spin it, right? I'm like, my job is to be, like, a spin doctor and make this palatable for my creative team. And. Yeah. So I just thought I would share that.

[Emma Rainville]

You're so bad. Shit crazy. No, that's great. That's great. It's great. I think the reason why marketing doesn't do a good job of selling the rest of the business on what the business is doing is because they need the operator to put it together for them. Like, think about when you guys were going through the process of wave and of your commitments. How many times did I go out and talk you through it? Do you know what I'm saying? And no one's going to sell the vision like you will.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

So once it's done, you can.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

But you need that component of operations and operator and integrator to help you understand. Otherwise, it's the same mess that you've created over and over again of ideas that people don't understand.

[Yara Golden]

Totally. So.

[Emma Rainville]

But I do think there's no one that's gonna sell it like marketing and no one that's gonna sell it like the visionary entrepreneur who's usually a marketer. Right.

[Yara Golden]

But there's, like, definitely sales that needs to be done for ops on the behalf of ops to the rest of the team. And I think that that is a crucial piece to all of this. And so, you know, if you're listening and you're like, me, where you're just like, oh, my gosh. Like Emma, yes, I know I need all that. But I'm like, rolling my eyes. Think about how you can use your creativity and your marketing skills to take what Emma's talking about here and actually sell it to your team. Because this is the thing that's going to unlock scale and growth.

[Emma Rainville]

Right. I had a visionary entrepreneur say to me, we did his wave over three days. And he looks at me, he's like, I could have launched three funnels with the brain power this took. And I'm like, you haven't launched a funnel in a year.

[Yara Golden]

Calm down.

[Emma Rainville]

Right? Chill the fuck out. Because now you will be able to launch a funnel. A quarter, probably, because we've actually got some sight in. Me literally is like the brain power the duck.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah. Well, and it's. It's thinking. It's deep work. This is deep work. And I think it's work that not a lot of people put the time and effort into doing, which is one of the reasons why I'm so grateful to have operators around me. Like, I know that I have James in my corner anytime I need him. I know that if I come up against a wall, I'm like, hey, Emma, do you have a process for this? Or have you worked with somebody who's come up against this thing. Like, I've surrounded myself interestingly, with operators and integrators.

[Emma Rainville]

Right.

[Yara Golden]

And it's uncomfortable for me because you all think so differently than I do, but I know that that's what's going to cause me to grow and it's going to cause me to start thinking and looking at things differently. If I just sit with creatives and I only surround myself with creatives, it's just going to reinforce the, like, oh, we don't need that. Like, they're not like us. Right. But I don't want to be.

[Emma Rainville]

That song is now stuck in my.

[Yara Golden]

I know I did on purpose.

[Emma Rainville]

Sorry.

[Yara Golden]

I want to be in a place. Like, I want to be the dumbest person in the room always, right? Always. And so even though it's uncomfortable to put yourself in that position and it's vulnerable to ask the questions where you're just like, hey, like, how do I actually create a process? Like, I don't know. You would have a field day. If I'm like, hey, Emma, like, you know we're trying to do.

[Emma Rainville]

Excite me.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

Like, hey, we're probably more than a check.

[Yara Golden]

Right? Like, hey, we're trying to do X, Y, Z. And you'd be like, oh, let's go. Right. Like, I have. I've done that already already. Or I can't believe you have something that I haven't done. Like, let's figure it out. That's fun for you. Where it's vulnerable for me to ask because I'm like, oh, maybe I should already know this. I should know how to do this already. Which is something that business owners get stuck in all of the time. Not just.

[Emma Rainville]

Or are they. We lie. It I love. We're both in driven. That's how we met. That's how we became friends. We're low key BFFs, guys. We're talking so much to each other, but we're in text every single day about 25 times. And each other's Apple watch. Oh, my God.

[Yara Golden]

So much walking.

[Emma Rainville]

Oh, God, I'm so glad we're taking.

[Yara Golden]

A few days off. That's true. Me too.

[Emma Rainville]

But I love, I love that we're in Driven. And one of the things that I really love about Driven, that I hadn't seen in other masterminds that I've been in, other masterminds that have been there. Those mastermind owners, I mean, at least from my experience, the ones I had been in, are showing up for the check that they're getting. They're not showing up to Push people. And Driven is the exact opposite. Like, they. I don't even think those guys know what they make off. Driven.

[Yara Golden]

Right.

[Emma Rainville]

They do it for the sheer enjoyment of teaching. They have other businesses. None of them need money. They're doing it for the love of being on stage, for the joy of being the guy.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

And just they're really. And they are the guys. And it's funny. I get to see the back end of. You know, I always say, Perry's my oldest child.

[Yara Golden]

Right.

[Emma Rainville]

Jason's my sad little middle that always has to test and push the limits.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

And Kassum's my youngest, who can do no wrong. Anyway, so I love Driven, because if you show up at Driven and you, like, are giving fake numbers. Kassam owns Solutions 8. He's a marketing guy. He's a media buyer. Or he's not a media buyer, but he had a media buying agency. That means costume really knows numbers. You start lying and throwing out numbers. How many times has someone been on a stage or at a table and customs? Like, wait a minute, hold on. When he does that. Wait a minute, hold on. You know what I'm talking about. You know that he's about to destroy you. Why are you lying about your numbers, man?

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

Like, what are you here for? To look like a big shot? I'm the only big shot in the room. You know, he doesn't. He doesn't actually. He would never say that. But that's absolutely what say. Right. Like, I want you to come here.

[Yara Golden]

He's just.

[Emma Rainville]

In a very nice way, I want you to come here with an open mind and open heart and, and with your real problems and be real vulnerable so we can actually help you.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

We want to see you grow. And the amount of times that I've seen them call people out on their, okay, well, if you're right and I'm wrong and your product's doing so good, why are you here? Because you can't stay 70 degrees in 100 degree room. But if you feel like you're at 100 degrees and you're not going to grow, go somewhere else.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah, but it's a. But it's a mindset and it's. It's a personality trait to, like, seek those rooms out and to put yourself in those rooms. Like, I have never been as uncomfortable as I am when I walk into a new mastermind. Right. Because you're like, I don't know these people. I don't know these businesses. There's a threshold that you have to have reached to be in this room, I feel this small. Right. Like, there's you. You never know. You're like, am I a little fish in this pond or am I a big fish in this pond? And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. And that's the place where you have to get to, because everyone's in there.

[Emma Rainville]

You want to be the little fish in the pond.

[Yara Golden]

You want to be the little fish in the.

[Emma Rainville]

Because. And you want to be in the room where they're going to surround you so that the other big fish can't get to you.

[Yara Golden]

Totally.

[Emma Rainville]

But.

[Yara Golden]

But I guess what I'm getting at is that even the big fish that are in the room are there because they have a problem and they're looking for the solution. Right. And you may have it. Right, Right. So. So I think. I think that's. That's really been one of the things that has. Has acclimated me to being around people that I'm like, oh, like, okay, you guys definitely know more than I do about this stuff, but I'm okay saying that. And I'm also okay raising my hand and saying, I need help with this.

[Emma Rainville]

Yeah.

[Yara Golden]

And so I think that's. It's just an important point here because I do think that there's a lot of miscommunication and misunderstanding between Ops and the creative team. And we could even throw sales in the mix, too. Right. Because, like, we haven't talked about sales teams, but that's another one that we hate them together.

[Emma Rainville]

That's the one we tag team.

[Yara Golden]

Exactly.

[Emma Rainville]

That's the one thing that aligns us.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

We get together and hold hands and skip to fuck them up.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah, exactly.

[Emma Rainville]

We go tell on them together.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah. They're just assholes.

[Emma Rainville]

Do you know what the sales team did? Do you know what the sales team.

[Yara Golden]

Do you know how many leads we sent them that they just, like, they.

[Emma Rainville]

Just didn't follow up on? Or they sold everybody. But that's because they lied the whole time.

[Yara Golden]

Right. But. But it's like this whole thing, like, everyone is speaking different languages, and it's so important to have that growth mindset where you're like, let me not come at this conversation defensively, but instead let me come at it through curiosity and say, like, okay, what is Ops actually trying to tell me? Right? Like, how can I put on, like, my little OPS hat and be like, all right, Emma said that we need to execute on this and that these are the resources that are going to be needed and that this is a timeline that we're looking at. And when I look at, like my marketing department, I'm like, crap. Like, we, we. Like, I don't know if we can meet those. But, like, let me stay curious and let me ask more questions and let me ask for clarification and for guidance and everybody gets better. And the same for ops, right? It's like, well, okay, marketing is coming at me with all these ideas, like, how the hell do they expect me to get all of this done? Like, I don't have the people, the resources, whatever. But if you can be like, all right, marketing, like, what are we trying to accomplish? Like, why are we chasing this rabbit off into the hills when we said we were going to go to the shore? Right? And it's like, let me ask questions and stay curious. And that way both sides of the conversation can grow and can learn from each other. And I think that that's where everybody really gets better.

[Emma Rainville]

Yeah. One of the best things that you can say to someone that you're in odds, at odds with. And I found that almost every CMO director of marketing, I've started off at odds with them because they always want to explain why it's not their fault.

[Yara Golden]

Right?

[Emma Rainville]

I hate marketing people. I have that brain. And all I hear is excuses when I never even tried to place blame. I don't care who's at fault. Guess what? I'm at fault. I don't give a. How do we move forward? That's all I care about. But sometimes I have to dissect how we got here in order to fix the problem so I don't break it more. My husband is a marketer and he has the marketing brain. And so, I mean, I, for example, I called him Monday. He was supposed to be at a certain location to meet a certain person Monday at 8am and I'm like, you didn't get there till 10? They messaged me and like, didn't get here until 10:30. We didn't get done. Why didn't you get there till 10:30? Well, he told me he was coming on Monday, but he didn't tell me what time. We opened at 8. Like, why wouldn't he be there at 8? Well, I don't know. He didn't tell me what time. I figured he'd text me. He told you he was coming on Monday? Yeah.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

When did you ask? Well, because. No, no, next time you need to just ask. Well, the reason why. It doesn't matter why. It doesn't. It doesn't even matter. We're past it now. Next time when someone says, I'm coming on Monday, you need to ask why. Well, the thing that I. Okay, I'm hanging up now. Because I don't care about your excuses. Like, literally, I don't care about your excuses, so. And that's the fight that ops and marketing gets in. Fortunately, I'm not as testy with staff because they have to do a lot less to separate from me. And so. So generally speaking, when I'm at odds with the director of marketing or a cmo, I'll come in and I'll just, Hey, I really need our relationship to be good in order to be successful at my job. I need you more than you need me. Not fucking true, by the way. But I need you more than you need me. And I recognize that. So what have I. I don't know what I'm doing. Not what have I. I don't know what I'm doing to make us so at odds. I take all the blame. You don't need to make any freaking excuses now. You don't need to also get defensive because I just took all the blame.

[Yara Golden]

Right.

[Emma Rainville]

How can I show up where you and I can get along and help move everything forward? Both of our jobs is to move this whole business forward. To move the needle on revenue is your job. And move the needle on profits is my job. To make sure that customers are getting delivered is my job. To make sure we're getting customers is your job. We need to work together. I need you in order to get my job done. How do I talk to you? How do I bring up issues with you? Because what I'm doing clearly is not working right. So I need to understand how to make you happy so that I can do my job. This now gives them all the power. No, it doesn't. It gives you all the power because now you can actually understand what you need to do to move the needle. And that's all that freaking matters anyway.

[Yara Golden]

Right?

[Emma Rainville]

Right. And so I really love that hack. And you can do it in any situation. Any situation. I love that hack. And then they'll usually tell you what's bothering them.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

And it's probably something like, you keep bringing up the marketing numbers and meetings like they're bad. Like we're not working so hard. It's a matter of fact.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

So how do I now relay the KPIs? Now I'm going to go. Marketing did a great job. We didn't hit our goal of six, but they brought it up to 4.1 from last week's 3.9. So round of applause for marketing. How do we keep that going?

[Yara Golden]

Right.

[Emma Rainville]

Gun to my head, by the way, the emotional energy that that takes from me rather than just read the number.

[Yara Golden]

Right, right.

[Emma Rainville]

But now I know the problem, and now I can work in synergy with someone.

[Yara Golden]

Well, but these are. These are the differences in personality type, right? Like, because you have, for the most part, I would say, people who lean towards people, pleasing and, you know, wanting to hear that they did a good job and, like, approval and things like that. Not in a. Not in a negative way, but I just think that the act of saying, I made something here, like, I made something for you. Can you, like, look at it? And you're just like, well, but it only brought in 4.1 instead of 6.

[Emma Rainville]

And that's not what I'm saying, though.

[Yara Golden]

No, I know.

[Emma Rainville]

I'm reporting on numbers, but that's what you hear.

[Yara Golden]

That's what you hear, right? Because you're like, I worked really hard on this. Like, how did it do? And it's like, it didn't do well.

[Emma Rainville]

What are you gonna do next? Yeah, that's my job.

[Yara Golden]

Right. No, but, but. And then you have. On the other side, you have people who are very bottom line, like, black and white bullet points. And over here, you've got, like, fluffy, like, you know, rainbows and. Rainbows and butterflies and. And, like spinning stories and like all of these things. Right? And then you. You contrast that with me.

[Emma Rainville]

I'm like, I don't need to hear your fucking story. This meeting is only 90 minutes.

[Yara Golden]

Exactly.

[Emma Rainville]

I need to get to the point on everything. So let's get to the point.

[Yara Golden]

Well, and it. But, but the. I think the actual point is that it's not personal.

[Emma Rainville]

Right?

[Yara Golden]

Right. Like, the numbers are. The numbers. They're black and white. They're not gonna lie. Numbers don't lie. And the copy can be changed the design.

[Emma Rainville]

But it is so easy for an operator to just. The way they present the numbers when they know it's gonna. Marketing totally just flipping it to presenting it in a way that they don't feel like they're on trial.

[Yara Golden]

Well, and also because all of you.

[Emma Rainville]

Have, like, social anxiety. Freaking crazy.

[Yara Golden]

We just want to do a good job syndrome.

[Emma Rainville]

You just want to do a pleasing nightmare. And like, you're all a nightmare, all of you.

[Yara Golden]

But you can also do personal development, right? Because just like ops can say, hey, I'm gonna wrap the pill in cheese. You know, marketing can also be like, all right, we gotta put our big boy and girl panties on and go to the meeting and hear how the thing that we created did, right? Like, it's not all on OPS to like, make it nice and fluffy place for marketing to land. Like, marketing can also, like, grow a pair and show up to the call and be like, all right, like, let's see, let's see how it did.

[Emma Rainville]

But if everybody shows up the way we're talking.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

How much does your company achieve?

[Yara Golden]

So much more.

[Emma Rainville]

And it's crazy how much time and effort is spent on fighting and friction instead of.

[Yara Golden]

I wouldn't tolerate fighting like infighting within the company.

[Emma Rainville]

The problem is, is most companies that are. I would prefer actual fighting. I would prefer a meeting where.

[Yara Golden]

Because I throw them in the ring.

[Emma Rainville]

Well, you can confront it, you can talk it out. We can have. It's the passive. Because y'all. Y'all are passive aggressive. We're like snide comments, right? Which then you guys go off into a corner and it's. And then OPS is off in a corner. But OPS is smarter than y'all because then OPS goes to customer service and runs their mouth. And they go to sales and run their mouth. Then they go to the CEO and run their mouth.

[Yara Golden]

Well, just because you're less introverted than we are.

[Emma Rainville]

There it is. I actually don't do any of that.

[Yara Golden]

No.

[Emma Rainville]

Because it's toxic.

[Yara Golden]

Totally, totally toxic.

[Emma Rainville]

Usually it's your lower level managers and entry level positions that are doing that well.

[Yara Golden]

And if that's happening, it needs to get nipped in the butt.

[Emma Rainville]

But your higher ups are where it's happening. Because you're giving me passive aggressive statements. I'm giving you dirty looks. And then I'm going into the OPS team being like, look, we need to watch her. And this is where. This is where leaders get toxic. We do need to watch you, by the way, because you're fucking nuts. And you do stupid things. Stupid, stupid, stupid things that create big problems for us. But instead of saying, marketing has such great ideas and sometimes they go a little bit overboard, so we need to make sure we're staying on top of the bonuses and the delivery. See how different that is from, we need to watch her because that woman is crazy. And it happens a lot. And so what happens is these little pods of people, teams of nine, turning to complete chaos. Chaos, toxicity. I worked in one company where there are 23 people, 22 women, one men, one man. Something I would never do, by the way.

[Yara Golden]

That's a lot of opportunity.

[Emma Rainville]

Employment don't come for me. But I would try and be More diversified and. But literally 20.

[Yara Golden]

22 to 1.

[Emma Rainville]

22 to 1. And like they'd be in the bathroom different. They, they'd come in, oh, I'm a COO, right. This is a 15. At the time, it was a 15 million dollar business. Hey, Emma, so and so is in the bathroom crying again. You want to talk to her? Absolutely not. What the is she crying about?

[Yara Golden]

Right?

[Emma Rainville]

Oh, well, so and so said that she wasn't doing her job well and she was just really upset and she's in the bathroom crying or so and so said that she's gross and she, she didn't wrap a tampon. Like crazy, crazy, crazy things. Crazy things. I'm like, what planet? I mean, you, you probably know it took me about two weeks to get all that in the bud. All that in the bud. But it was, it was crazy to me.

[Yara Golden]

It should be.

[Emma Rainville]

But those levels of toxicity. Toxicity come from above.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

It starts with leadership, with their SNY comments or pat. And then I go and I say that to my person. You go to your person and you're like, she's trying to keep us from doing it again and we can't. Now she's gonna go report the numbers because she said we couldn't do what we wanted to do. And then your person is going to go down and it's going to get escalated and more toxic and that person is going to go. It makes sense. So when you can align, you know, your, your leadership to watch their language.

[Yara Golden]

Even if I faces the.

[Emma Rainville]

Even if I hate, there are times where I've hated the CEO, I've hated the CMO and I hated the cfo. All three of them in the same company hated them. I came in to do a job, it was three to six months and I just want to get it done. You will. Outside of, outside of my up and you know, you know, I'm dealing with my mastermind owners. I, you know, I need to figure things out. I may complain to them. You up, not down.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

My business partner. If, you know, I might complain to them. But I'm not going to be running my mouth amongst my staff because what's going to happen to my staff?

[Yara Golden]

They're going to pick a side and.

[Emma Rainville]

It'S always going to be mine.

[Yara Golden]

Right.

[Emma Rainville]

I actually, that's. So I say that that's actually not true. My shockwave staff, it's gonna be the right side. They're actually really, really good at. Because we've trained them to be. They're really, really good at like, hey, you're having friction with this person because of a personality problem. Why don't I step in and handle those meetings? But I'm not gonna complain to the ops team about the cfo. My language is gonna be like, he's really great at what he does, but because he's holding onto those numbers so tightly, we have to be aware of XYZ and make sure we're conforming to how he needs this done.

[Yara Golden]

But this is a culture conversation now, right? Because it's like, okay, yes.

[Emma Rainville]

Like, marketing and ops not being on the same page creates a culture of toxicity.

[Yara Golden]

Oh, absolutely.

[Emma Rainville]

Every time, through every department.

[Yara Golden]

Absolutely. But it will always trickle down. Right. And so how you are showing up as the leader, as the CEO, as the founder, cmo, CFO of the company. Coo. Right. Like that is going to anyone with.

[Emma Rainville]

The chief or director in their title.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah. It's gonna. It's gonna set the tone for how conversations happen, how people look at different departments, how people treat clients like, how people talk about clients internally, how people look at the work that needs to get done. Like, all of those things are trickling down. And so I found myself where we've had clients where I'm just like, oh, my gosh. Like, they ping me in slack. And like, I like, you know, I'm like, why are we even working with this person? Like, I can't stand this person. Like, they need to go.

[Emma Rainville]

But you're not going to go to staff and talk about that. You're going to come to me.

[Yara Golden]

Absolutely.

[Emma Rainville]

And like, at night, yeah, these idiots.

[Yara Golden]

Absolutely. But I. But even with me not saying anything, I can feel when the staff. And this is why those types of clients have to go. Right? Because I'm like, I will not support something that's going to change the culture in my team, in my company. And so you got to. You got to be really honest with yourself about who's a good fit, who's not a good fit. And if you see. If you see things like that happening in your company, like you said, you have to nip it in the bud. Either you have to have a very real conversation with the people that are participating in it. You have to make an example of somebody and be like, hey, listen, like, you gotta pack your bags and you gotta go. Because whatever you did crossed the line, and we can't tolerate that here. And normally people fall back in line where they're just like, oh, okay, that toxic person left. I'm looking pretty toxic right now as I look at the mirror. Like, let me shape up Because I really do like being here.

[Emma Rainville]

Yeah, I've seen it where one person got removed from a company and like three, four people that were failing that were in line. Okay. We could only fire one at a time. He's like the main problem. Let's go ahead and get rid of him and then we'll solely replace everybody. And these three didn't need to be replaced because it. One bad apple, man. Yeah, one bad apple, man. You gotta freaking cut them out right away. Higher, slow, fire, fast.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah. And it makes a real difference, you know? And if you have, if you have an A player and you surround them with like B or C players, they're not gonna raise the vibration of everybody else. Like, they're gonna say, they're either gonna leave because they're gonna be like, this isn't the right team for me, or they're gonna, they're gonna sink to the level of people that they're playing with. And so in a situation like that, maybe you had somebody who's dragging everybody down and they're just like, oh, I guess that this is, is just what's acceptable here now. Like, we're able to gossip, we're able to complain, we're able to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you're just like, actually, we're not. This person's gone and you're next in line and everyone's like, nope, we're actually really good. We want to be a players again.

[Emma Rainville]

I say it all the time. I have an open door policy. However, Right. If you come to gripe about someone, know that the very first thing I'm going to do is get up and go get that person because I can't help you with that problem unless that we include that person. We're not going to have end runs where you circumvent someone and come to me. Yeah, I'm happy to help you fix the problem between someone else. But also if you come to me and you have no, you're not a manager over someone. You have no ill effect from what they're doing, but want to come tell me about something they're doing or something that's going on and just gonna tattle, like, what the. And there's sometimes where it's like, you know, someone's about to quit. You know, there's a big project. There are, there are some times where it's like you are being an a player.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

99.9% of the time you just didn't get your fucking ass kicked for snitching enough. When you were younger and let me be the one right now, because I can't put hands on you, but I'm gonna assume assault you with my tongue right now and let you know what.

[Yara Golden]

An absolute piece of.

[Emma Rainville]

An absolute piece. Jesus. When an absolute piece of shit I think you are that you ran behind your co workers back. And I always say, like, if you don't consider the people that you're working with, your battle buddies and like, no man left behind. I didn't do my job. So if I'm doing my job and you come in to tell me about how. Hey, I just wanted to let you know, like, Chris called out and said he had the flu, but I saw on his Facebook that he was out drinking till 2 o'clock in the morning last night.

[Yara Golden]

So just want to let you know.

[Emma Rainville]

Like, when the fuck. It's pto.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

For a reason. Shut the fuck up. I'm actually. That's something you can lie to me about. I don't want you to be like, hey, yeah, I got fucking trash last night and now I'm not coming over. I would much prefer you say, hey, the flu. I'm not gonna be able to work today. My quality is gonna be poor. Hopefully I'll be in tomorrow. I much prefer. I don't like being lied to for sure. Just say, I'm taking a PTO day, for Christ's sake. But if you're gonna lie, that's the time to do it, right? What kind of. What kind of relationship are you creating with your people that they can be like, yeah, I got so trash.

[Yara Golden]

I was at Taco Bell at 3:00am.

[Emma Rainville]

You know what I'm gonna do, by the way? I've actually done this. That's an actual true story of something that happened. I'm like, hold on one second. Hey, Amanda, you might want to take Jeff off. I just changed the names. You might want to take Jeff off your Facebook because this asshole just told me what was on it.

[Yara Golden]

Right.

[Emma Rainville]

Send texts.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah, it's. It's crazy, but I think it's so important to be able to step into those difficult conversations with people. It's. It's really incredible to me how lacking people's communication skills are and their reluctance to step into conversations that are even remotely uncomfortable. Right, right. And it's just like how you're saying, you know, if I'm going to come to you to talk to you about one of our coworkers, you're going to get up and go get the coworker. Like, that's most people's worst nightmare. And I'd be like, oh, thank God. Like we were going to have a mediator. Like we can actually have a real conversation. Because if I'm giving feedback, it's not because I'm trying to talk shit about them. It's because you're having a problem and you're having a problem doing my job. Exactly.

[Emma Rainville]

The only appropriate thing is that we sit down and solve the problem.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

Me sitting there and letting you vent to me is me allowing you to gossip to me. And so many leaders screw that up.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah. Yeah. And it's not how many.

[Emma Rainville]

This pisses me off all the time. This one pisses me off. Hey, Emma, I gotta talk to you. I'm not supposed to tell you this, but.

[Yara Golden]

But.

[Emma Rainville]

And this comes from CEO sometimes. But so and so members having the problem. This problem with so and so member. And like, ah, I don't know what to do about this.

[Yara Golden]

And.

[Emma Rainville]

And blah, blah, blah. And then you go and you've like. And specifically what I'm talking about is we were managing a company that had different coaches and the coaches were considered members because the coaches were. They joined to become a coach. And then the top 10 became coaches. So they were also members. And then they'd coach the members. So this, this came from the CEO. So we were teaching, like, business development. So this coach is having a problem with this coach. And I'm not supposed to say anything. The fucking second you as a boss or an owner say, yeah, sure, you can talk to me and I won't tell anyone unless it's a personal problem. Like, hey, my husband has leukemia and I'm. I'm really struggling at home. I am trying the best I can to keep up with my job, but I just wanted you to know that I'm really trying to.

[Yara Golden]

Or. Yeah, if I'm off, it's because of this.

[Emma Rainville]

Right, Right. Like I'm telling you something personal about my life, then that's acceptable. Anything to do with anyone else, that is gossip.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

That is nonsense. Or when you play this game, this game drives me crazy. And so many leaders do this one. Can we spin this truth this way? Because this employee doesn't want that employee to know they said anything.

[Yara Golden]

That's interesting.

[Emma Rainville]

So we. I work with visionaries on a different level than you do.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

So. And then I have to break down for them why that's manipulation in a bad way. There's manipulation. That's good. Yeah.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

Everybody thinks manipulation is a negative condensation. It's just not. It's just Not. Yeah, that is a very negative, toxic form of manipulation for sure. So, yeah. So just back to leaderships it Ops.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

And I'm not being aligned is a huge problem. But also your C Suite executives, your directors, your ownership has a lot of influence on how all of that plays out.

[Yara Golden]

Totally. Yeah. Like, if you have a leader who's rolling their eyes at ops and is like. Like, whatever. Like, they're here because we have to have them. Right? Like legal. Like, everyone. Like, legal and compliance. Everyone's like, well, they're only here because we have to have them.

[Emma Rainville]

And only everyone says it that way. Ryan Puti with.

[Yara Golden]

Right. But it's like, then they're seen as that guy.

[Emma Rainville]

Right?

[Yara Golden]

Right. And it's just like, oh, they're here again, like, okay, everybody listened at the meeting, blah, blah, blah. And everyone rolls their eyes and everyone goes back to doing whatever they were doing. Right? And that doesn't work because you freaking need ops and you do need legal and compliance and you do need marketing and every, like. And all of those departments need everybody else to listen with. With curiosity and with an open mind as to, like, what are they trying to say? Right. And asking questions. Like, if you don't understand what's being put in front of you, there's nothing worse on our team than having a question and not asking it. I would rather you come to me on my team and be like, what's a funnel? Where I'd be like, oh, absolutely. I'd be like, wow, okay, well, let's get. Let's.

[Emma Rainville]

I didn't do my job hiring.

[Yara Golden]

I definitely didn't do my job hiring, but I'm glad that you asked because it's way more detrimental to the team for you to pretend like, you know and then screw things up left and right than for you to get on a call and just be like, hey, I'm not really sure what an abandoned cart sequence is. I'd be like, awesome. This is what an abandoned cart sequence is. This is what it looks like. This is the objective. This is how many emails you're supposed to have. This type of language that you're going to want to send or say, and these are when you want to send them. And everyone's like, clear. Everyone has. Anyone has questions? No.

[Emma Rainville]

Cool.

[Yara Golden]

Have that transcribed, put in SOP and like, now we have a description for, like, what an abandoned car sequences. Right. Like, it helps. It doesn't make you look bad. It helps the team grow. Because if you have that question, I guarantee somebody else has that question or is going to have that question at some point.

[Emma Rainville]

So I love it.

[Yara Golden]

Well, yeah. We've talked for a really long time.

[Emma Rainville]

We have.

[Yara Golden]

Yeah. Did we hit everything?

[Emma Rainville]

No, but that's okay. We're just gonna. So how do they find you?

[Yara Golden]

How do they find me? You can find [e-mail] it's Y A R A because Emma says it's spelled stupid.

[Emma Rainville]

I was wondering how many times it's gonna have to say before you just threw it in there yourself.

[Yara Golden]

Two times, clearly. Golden G O L D E N. So Yadagolden.com and yeah, this has been fun.

[Emma Rainville]

Oh my God. So, so fun. So fun. I've absolutely loved this. All right, let's recap. If you don't have marketing and operations aligned, you're losing money, period. We just broke down how it happens, why it happens, and mostly, most importantly, how to fix it. Big shout out to my good friend Yada golden for dropping absolute gems today. If you got value from this episode, here's what you do next. First, go grab the free playbook. We built this marketing and ops alignment playbook to make sure your business is not running in circles. You'll get the three step framework we talked about today, plus extra tools to make sure your teams are working together, not against each other. It's 100% free. No fluff, no bullshit. Just go to www.specialopspodcast forward slash fault and download it today. Second, share this with someone who needs it. If you know a business owner who's dealing with this exact nightmare, send them this episode. Trust me, they'll thank you for it. Last thing, subscribe and leave a review. We drop episodes every week on Tuesday packed with no bullshit strategies to scale without breaking your business. Hit subscribe, drop a quick review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and let us know what's working for you. That's it for today. Stay sharp, skill smart, and I'll catch you on the next one.