Why I Chose Advertising Law: Ryan Poteet’s Journey From Asset Freezes to Law Firm Culture

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Special Ops with Emma Rainville

Episode: Why I Chose Advertising Law: Ryan Poteet’s Journey From Asset Freezes to Law Firm Culture

Date: September 12, 2025

Host: Emma Rainville | Guest: Ryan Poteet, Partner at Gordon Reese

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Overview

In this light-hearted but insightful episode, Emma Rainville chats with Ryan Poteet about his unconventional path into advertising law, his day-to-day experiences, and the personal and professional relationships that have shaped his career. The conversation covers the unpredictability of legal work in advertising, the unique culture at Gordon Reese, and the importance of building great teams. With a mix of anecdotes, friendly banter, and thoughtful reflections, the episode gives listeners a closer look at the human side of legal practice in a high-stakes industry.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Advertising Law?

• Ryan’s Attraction to the Field

  • Ryan chose advertising law because of its variety and unpredictability. “You walk in the office at the beginning of the day thinking you’re going to be doing one thing and then, you know, 4pm your client gets served with an FTC asset freeze. ...It’s never dry.”
  • He contrasted advertising law with more predictable legal fields, such as wills and estates, noting that despite those being lucrative, he was drawn to the fast-paced, ever-changing nature of advertising law.
  • Emma summarizes: “So you’re growth minded?” [00:59]

• Learning & Growth

  • Ryan enjoys constantly learning and tackling new problems. He initially pursued First Amendment litigation, and ultimately sees himself as having come “full circle” as an advertising lawyer.
  • “I am a First Amendment lawyer because I’m an advertising lawyer. ...I ultimately landed where I was supposed to be.” [01:48]

2. Emma and Ryan’s Origin Story

• First Meeting

  • The two reminisce about meeting at a Nate Lynn Ecom Legends mastermind in Fort Worth, 2019. Ryan describes it as his “introduction to direct response marketing,” and his first mastermind event.
  • Nate’s events had no agenda or scheduled speakers—attendees created the content and discussions, making for a spontaneous and unpredictable environment. [03:23-04:49]

• Networking and Learning Culture

  • Both note the benefits of learning from peers at such events. Emma says, “Half the people in the room, really, ...everybody in the room can teach something.” [04:35]

3. Ryan’s Professional Path

• Career Progression

  • Ryan came to Gordon Reese in 2019 from a litigation firm dealing with consumer protection and regulatory issues.
  • He credits Damon, a colleague and quick friend, with introducing him to advertising law and direct response spaces.
  • Their first major case together: an FTC matter that happened months after Ryan joined, right before the COVID-19 shutdown. “We’re doing all this FTC work, and then the entire office just shuts down. ...I was just glued to it.” [05:07 - 05:51]
  • Ryan made partner in January 2022—three years after joining the firm.

• The Challenge of FTC Litigation

  • While the experience is daunting, Ryan finds FTC cases compelling. He relishes the challenge of defending clients against expansive government actions.
  • “Everybody deserves a defense. And ...just because [the government is] saying it doesn’t make it true.” [06:41]

4. Philosophy on Justice and Regulation

• Fairness in Enforcement

  • Ryan and Emma discuss the randomness of FTC enforcement, remarking how often well-intentioned business owners are targeted for minor infractions, while true bad actors evade scrutiny.
  • Emma: “It’s always like, the good guy who was trying to be a decent human being ...didn’t understand one little nuance or some marketing person did something stupid...” [06:53]

• Importance of Legal Defense

  • “The government can’t just come in and take your money and call you a bad person...they actually need to stand up in court and prove it.” [07:14]

5. Life Outside the Office

• Family and Banter
  • Ryan is married to another attorney, Natalie; together they have two sons, Avery (6.5) and Hayden (4), and two dogs.
  • Humorous exchanges about marital “arguments” as attorneys:
    • Ryan: “She wins...She’ll get into, like, depot mode...”
    • Emma: “I would go buy peas at the store just to have it to throw at you.” [09:57-10:07]
  • Ryan grew up in Houston, moved to New Jersey (where he lost his Texas accent), and now lives in Virginia. [10:45-11:09]
  • Fond memories of colleagues, including social anecdotes from industry events (e.g., “martinis for breakfast” at T&C) and the cultural blend of their teams. [11:44-12:26]

6. Professional Pride and Teamwork

• A Proud Moment

  • Ryan shares a standout experience: working with a major brand’s CMO to review and responsibly massage ad claims to meet legal standards.
  • Notable quote: “You should have been a copywriter, because we were going through and ...massaging all these claims...mitigating all that risk.” [12:47]
  • Ryan explains that finding compliant solutions rather than simply saying “no” is a core part of his role: “Rarely do we ever say, ‘You can’t say that.’ ...Most of the time, unless it’s gonna end you in handcuffs...there’s a way to do it.” [13:37]

• Firm Culture

  • Teamwork is a recurring theme. Both Emma and Ryan emphasize how working with people you respect and enjoy transforms the job.
  • Emma: “Liking the people that you work with changes the dynamic...So much because it’s not a job as much.” [14:25-14:39]
  • Ryan and his team have been Emma’s go-to legal team for all six years of her company, Shockwave.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On why advertising law:
  • Ryan: “It always changes. ...You get something new every day. ...You’re constantly learning, it’s never dry. Clients are entertaining.” [00:28]
• On Justice and the FTC:
  • Ryan: “Everybody deserves a defense. ...The government can’t just come in and take your money and call you a bad person...they actually need to stand up in court and prove it.” [06:41, 07:14]
• On life as a lawyer couple:
  • Ryan: “[My wife] wins. ...She’ll get into, like, depot mode. ...To break the tension, I’ll just be like, ‘Objection. Vague, ambiguous.’” [09:44-09:57]
  • Emma: “I would go buy peas at the store just to have it to throw at you.” [10:02]
• On working with a major brand:
  • CMO to Ryan: “You should have been a copywriter...” [12:47]
• On team culture:
  • Emma: “Liking the people that you work with changes the dynamic. ...It’s not a job as much. It’s like, well, at least I’m excited to go see the people I’m going to be with all day.” [14:39-14:43]

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Important Timestamps for Segments

• 00:10 – Why advertising law?
• 01:48 – Ryan’s initial legal interests and the First Amendment
• 03:15 – Introduction to the direct response marketing world
• 05:07 – Ryan’s career trajectory: Litigation to advertising law
• 06:41 – Ethics and challenges of FTC litigation
• 09:44 – Life at home: Marriage between two attorneys
• 12:47 – Ryan’s proudest moment as an advertising lawyer
• 14:25 – The importance of enjoying your team

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Tone and Style

True to Emma’s signature style, the episode was direct, candid, and peppered with humor and mutual respect. The conversation flowed naturally, with both speakers riffing off each other’s remarks, making the episode feel like an inside look into a high-trust professional friendship.

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a personal window into the lives and careers of legal professionals in the advertising space. It provides valuable insights for entrepreneurs, marketers, and lawyers alike—particularly on the importance of resilience, the necessity of due legal process, and the power of building strong teams and support systems. Emma and Ryan’s rapport makes for engaging listening, even in this “non-episode episode” of Special Ops.

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Transcript

[A]

Okay. Ryan.

[B]

Hello, Emma.

[A]

I want to do a fun one. I want to do a fun one.

[B]

Let's do a fun one.

[A]

Let's do a fun one.

[B]

What are we talking about?

[A]

I want to know why, of all the fields a lawyer can get into, you pick this one. And we know it was just to meet me, Opie. Obviously. But why? Why advertising law?

[B]

It always changes. It's different. I mean, you walk in the office at the beginning of the day thinking you're going to be doing one thing and then, you know, 4pm Your client gets served with an FTC asset freeze. Or, I don't know, you just, you get something new every day. That's like so much of law. Like people practice a certain area and it's just the same thing over and over and over and over and again. And so it's. You're constantly learning, it's never dry. Clients are entertaining.

[A]

So you're growth minded.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I didn't know that.

[B]

It's fun.

[A]

I mean, I know that you like to learn, but I just assumed it was because of your job. Like I didn't know that you would literally seek out a profession because Will's Estates, you're kind of dry. I trust they're a lot of money though. They're lucrative.

[B]

They're lucrative. It's just not.

[A]

And easy. You're not working weekends.

[B]

We are definitely working weekends.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And it's fun because it's fast.

[A]

You chose the hard road.

[B]

It did. It's fun though.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wife and kids don't necessarily like it, but. No, it, I mean, I went to law school. I thought I was going to be. Well, I like solving problems, which is part of it.

[A]

And we are problem solvers in this industry for sure.

[B]

I thought I was going to go do appellate litigation.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Like in, in law school I was externing and doing clerkship work for a public interest law firm doing, you know, First Amendment litigation. I guess that's ultimately coming full circle. I am a First Amendment lawyer because I'm an advertising lawyer. So I guess I ultimately landed where I was supposed to be.

[A]

Interesting. It's kind of like me being Asian. It's one of those fun little facts.

[B]

Yes. Uh huh. Not going to bite on that one.

[A]

Nah. You already lost.

[B]

Yep. No, but I like my job. It's fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Most days.

[A]

Most days. So you found yourself at Gordon Reese, six, seven, eight years ago. Eight years ago.

[B]

Oh my gosh. Six, seven years ago. Six years ago.

[A]

Wouldn't it have been 2017?

[B]

19.

[A]

19. Oh yeah, 19 is when I started Shockwave and I met you at Nate Lynn's event.

[B]

Yeah. Ecom.

[A]

Ecom Legends. Legends in Fort Worth. You accompanied Damon. Right. Damon and I had known each other for a couple of years, I think I met Damon in 2017, and you two years later in 2019. Wow. We've only known each other six years. That's wild to me.

[B]

Feels a lot longer.

[A]

I feel like we've known each other 20 years.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Yeah, I know. It's crazy.

[B]

Yeah. That was my introduction to direct response marketing, Nateland's event. Yep.

[A]

That was the first.

[B]

First direct response.

[A]

Oh, my goodness. I don't know that I would have had that be your first.

[B]

I mean, it was fascinating. Yeah.

[A]

But that was. Nate's events were super interesting. I wish she still had them sometimes.

[B]

Well, that was the first mastermind I ever went to.

[A]

Oh, okay. Well, yeah, it was the first industry event. So Nate's events, for those of you that don't know, are super interesting because there's no agenda. There's no speakers. You show up, and then the people there kind of define what's going to be talked about based upon what they want to learn and who's in the room. It's very interesting. Like, people take tables, basically.

[B]

It's kind of like the Wednesday driven calls. Right. There's kind of like a general topic, but then everything kind of meanders into a. I mean, it's like the open Q and A.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

People are giving constant feedback. And that was kind of the.

[A]

I don't know that I'd compare driven to that. But just because the Wednesday calls. Not right. But. Right. No, no, no, I understand. But the Wednesday calls definitely have an agenda. To them, there is zero. You have no idea what you're walking into. No, none whatsoever. And so you don't know who the experts are going to be, what the topics are going to be, or if you're going to turn into an expert and have to present. Like that happens.

[B]

Well, that happened to Damon.

[A]

That happened to me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so.

[B]

And Shane from Zito. Yeah. He ended up doing one. Yeah.

[A]

Right. And. And half the people in the room, really, because everybody in the room can teach something. And so just like, what is everybody interested in learning about right now? That was a super fun event. I miss those events because they're easy. You don't have to play. Like, you can't plan.

[B]

No.

[A]

You're. It's not capable to plan for them. You just kind of show up anyway. So that's how we met. Tell me More about your journey. So you were an associate at Gwen Reese in 2019. You're now a partner.

[B]

I am.

[A]

Tell me about your journey. Like, let people know who you are.

[B]

I came from a litigation firm doing some consumer protection regulatory issues. And then I interviewed at Gordon Reese and met Damon, and we were quick friends. And he brought me into the. The ad law direct response space. I mean, I think I'd been at Gordon Reese two months, and we got our first FTC case, and I was just glued to it. Damon and I were just. And it was also right before COVID And so we're doing all this FTC work, and then the entire office just shuts down. So Damon and I were just alone at the office. I remember him saying. He's like. He's like, you're not allowed to come in. I was like, I can't, dude. We're on the phone every single day. Like, I can't do this. My mental health is not going to survive. I'm coming in the office because, like, we're just. Can't do this.

[A]

And you had. You didn't have the second kid yet. Covid got the second kid. It's true. People ended up divorced or with another child. Ryan ended up with another child.

[B]

And a dog.

[A]

And two dogs. Right. Okay. God.

[B]

Wow. No, but it's.

[A]

So much has changed.

[B]

It has, it has. But the. The FTC litigation, as much as I don't want. I wish that on anyone.

[A]

I mean, as you find those fun.

[B]

I. I mean, they're.

[A]

You don't want your clients to get hit with them, but you find those so interesting and so fun.

[B]

Well, because you're going up against the government. One of my other colleagues that I work with, Steve Freeland, I mean, he's like, everybody deserves a defense. And, you know, the government is coming in. Typically, they're exercising the most expansive powers that they possibly can. They're taking your home. They're saying that you're a bad person, you're defrauding consumers just because they're saying it. And just because they're saying it doesn't make it true.

[A]

And the funny thing is, we both know people who deserve that.

[B]

Oh, totally.

[A]

Never freaking get it. It's always like, the good guy who was trying to be a decent human being and, like, didn't understand one little nuance or some marketing person did something stupid that they didn't realize because they had just gotten too big. It just. It blows my mind.

[B]

But even.

[A]

It's like cancer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But even though it's A lottery.

[B]

But even those people that should be dinged and they don't deserve defense, according to you. Absolutely. Like, the government can't just come in and take your money and call you a bad person, you know, by fiat. Like, they actually need to stand up in court and prove it. And they can't take these rules and manipulate them into something that they're alleging that you do. Right.

[A]

Which is crazy to me, because if they just stuck to the people who are actually robbing from old ladies, they'd have plenty of work on their. They don't need to go do this to reasonable, honest business people. Blows my mind. Anyway, back to Ryan, because we could debate on that all day. So you get to Gordon Reese, you go through, you make partner. Three years ago.

[B]

That was 22. January of 22.

[A]

Yeah. So three years ago.

[B]

And it feels like yesterday.

[A]

Crazy.

[B]

Hey, everyone. Interrupting this podcast to remind everybody to like and subscribe our podcast and to sign up for the visionary vault at www.

[A]

Sponsor special opspodcast.com for a whole bunch of freebies.

[B]

It feels like yesterday.

[A]

I mean, it feels like yesterday. Do you remember. Do you remember the party we were at in Vegas?

[B]

Yeah. When I found out and I accidentally told you and I was like, oh.

[A]

I wasn't gonna go there. I don't think you can tell that.

[B]

I mean, it's at this point.

[A]

Okay. But I love that story.

[B]

No, I remember. Like, I was like, yeah, I just. I found out. It's going to happen.

[A]

You told me all about it, and then we had a few drinks, and the next day I walked up to you, and I was like, so, Ryan, oh, my God, you're gonna be partner soon. I have never seen you be that aggressive. Like, you stepped towards me like you were going to hurt me. I literally, like, my heart went in my throat a little bit. Like, what did I do? Like, how do you know that? Were you there last night?

[B]

Yeah, I know. We definitely had a couple, and I had no recollection of telling you that, but definitely did.

[A]

Yeah. That's okay. I kept my mouth shut.

[B]

Did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. No, because we were, like, amongst colleagues, and it wasn't public yet.

[A]

As a matter of fact, every time I've known something that I wasn't supposed to know, you're the one that opened your mouth and told people that I knew instead of me. I never do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Anyway, good friend, mostly. So you have a wife, Natalie. She's an attorney as well.

[B]

She's an attorney. So two attorneys under one household.

[A]

I would love to see Your fights.

[B]

Oh, I just. She wins.

[A]

Of course she wins.

[B]

I mean, she'll get into, like, depot mode. She's like this, this, this, this, and this. And like, I mean, to break the tension, I'll just be like, objection. Vague, Ambiguous.

[A]

Do you really do that?

[B]

Asked and answered.

[A]

I would throw a can of peas at you.

[B]

Well, no, I mean, because it breaks.

[A]

I would go buy peas at the store just to have it to throw at you.

[B]

Well, it just instantly breaks the tension because she'll. I mean, she gets a little. She's like, you know, but you said this and then this and this. And you can see how she's like, building this thing.

[A]

She's attorney.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm like, okay, I see what you're doing.

[A]

I. Amber heard. Honey, calm down. And so you have two sons.

[B]

Two sons.

[A]

How old are they?

[B]

Avery and Hayden. Avery is six and a half and Hayden is four.

[A]

Wow. Hayden is four.

[B]

He's almost as tall as Avery at this point.

[A]

Dude, that's crazy.

[B]

I mean, they wear their season sized pants. I mean, he's just gonna be a. They're both gonna be beasts. But Hayden is just.

[A]

Yeah. You're a big guy.

[B]

Yeah, my dad's tall.

[A]

Yeah. So you're originally from Houston?

[B]

Houston originally. Dad's in telecom.

[A]

Now you're in.

[B]

Now we are in Virginia. I mean, I used to have a Texas accent. Used to have a really thick Texas.

[A]

Did you really?

[B]

Oh. But then we moved to New Jersey and ew. I mean, there are parts of New Jersey I like. I learned to play lacrosse. That's how I played lacrosse in college.

[A]

Lacrosse is great. New Jersey is great. But the New Jersey, New York, Boston accent, all of those are terrible. You just sound dumb.

[B]

Oh, well, there's a reason I don't have an accent anymore. Oh. Can you imagine being in, like, third grade, landing with this, like, Texas accent?

[A]

How do y'. All. Yeah, I mean, Houston too. So Houston's like, dirty.

[B]

It's got, like a twang to it.

[A]

Yeah, it's got a dirty twang to it.

[B]

Yeah. And so there's a reason I have no accident whatsoever.

[A]

Yeah, you can't.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No.

[A]

Mine comes out when I'm tired. I get really tired or really angry that Boston will come out for sure.

[B]

I have a couple drinks. The. The Texas starts.

[A]

I. I do remember when we were pacing and had martinis for breakfast.

[B]

Pacing.

[A]

The very last. That was so great. The very last TNC that we attended, we were.

[B]

Yeah, we met Perry while we were.

[A]

On our way to meet with Perry. And we had stopped for breakfast with two other attorneys. The stupid one that got you locked out.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And Julia. And we decided to pace. And everybody was shocked that our pacing meant martinis. Cause it could have been shots. Remember, we met and Perry, after.

[B]

I mean, breakfast was like midday.

[A]

It was 11. It's not really midday.

[B]

Mid morning, late morning, East Coast.

[A]

Right. We were in San Diego. So technically, DC time, DC time, DC time. We've had a lot of fun over. We have the years and helped a lot of people. And we've helped a lot of people. You've helped a lot of people. You've done a lot. What is the thing, this thing that you hold on to, that you're really proud of, that you've done.

[B]

Really proud of? I was working for a large brand that everybody would. Would know of. And I was on the phone with their. Their cmo. We're going through all their ad claim substantiation. And, you know, I was still. I think it was a senior counsel at the time. It was like right before I made partner. And the CMO and, you know, had some higher ups on the phone. And it's just like, you should have been a copywriter, because we were going through and we were like, massaging all these claims to where, like, it was saying exactly what they wanted to say, just, like, mitigating all that risk. I was like, okay. I mean, that's not really like an accomplishment or anything like that.

[A]

But that was like a proud moment.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was like, okay, I've gotten so good in my industry that I can wear the hat of someone else to help them find the legal.

[B]

Yeah, loophole. Because there's. It's not even just loopholes. Like, there's. So rarely, rarely do we ever say, you can't say that. I mean, there.

[A]

You tell me that all the time.

[B]

I mean, like, you. I'll just be like, I'm a no, no. But I mean, most of the time, there's a. Unless it's gonna end you in handcuffs or just stealing people's money, There's a.

[A]

Way to do it.

[B]

There's a way to do it. And that's the fun part about what we do, right?

[A]

It's finding the way to do it compliantly. Awesome.

[B]

It's fun. Plus, we've built, like, a really good team. We've built a really good team at Gordon Reese. And, you know, liking the clients that you work with and the people you work with is incredibly helpful.

[A]

Dude, it's.

[B]

We spend more time with them than.

[A]

Anybody else than Your spouse. Really?

[B]

It's true. Yeah.

[A]

And because your spouse, you're sleeping half of the time that you spend with them. Think about the other half. Half. It's less than time you spend working in your lifetime. So it's crazy how liking the people that you work with changes the dynamic.

[B]

So much because it's not a job as much. It's like, well, at least I'm excited to go see the people I'm going to be with all day.

[A]

Dude. My team now, I don't know. Like, I'm just so lucky. This whole shift happened and I got rid of everything that wasn't serving me anymore, including people. And like, our team now is like, I can count on them and I know I can count on them. And I just. There's such a piece in that. P E A C E. There's such a piece in that. So great. Thank you. I wanted to just do this so that, you know, everybody knows me because, you know, you're Emma. Right? That's why.

[B]

The Emma.

[A]

That's why. But no people on the who have been watching the show know who I am, but I wanted to take a minute just so that they'd get to know who you are. And I love doing this with you. It's been awesome. We started this off as like a. Let's see what happens. It's turned into like, it's been a really good time. It really is. So thank you. All right, so this was a non episode episode of marketing on trial. Just because I wanted everybody to get to know Ryan a little bit. We don't have anything free to give to you today because we didn't really talk about anything legal. We just talked about Ryan. I wanted you to get to know him. But we have tons of resources in our visionary vault. That's at www.specialops podcast.com. if you're not already signed up for it, sign up for it. We have loads of stuff in there. Ryan charges a lot of money. Don't buy him a Porsche. Go and look at all the free stuff that we've compiled. But should the FTC come calling, buy him a Porsche. He's. He's. He's the guy you want. His team is the team you want. They've been my team for all six years of Shockwave.

[B]

That's awesome.

[A]

Yeah, all six years, like from the moment we incepted to now. They're the people I run to when I need help for clients or for myself. So super happy to have done this.

[B]

Likewise. Thank you, Emma.