Why Your Marketing and Ops Team Are Near Blows: The Secret to Getting Them Into a High-Performing Team

Summary

Special Ops Podcast - Episode Summary

Title: Why Your Marketing and Ops Team Are Near Blows: The Secret to Getting Them Into a High-Performing Team
Host: Emma Rainville
Guest: Yada Golden
Release Date: March 25, 2025

---

Introduction to Hiring Missteps

Emma Rainville opens the episode by addressing a common pitfall in business hiring practices. She emphasizes that businesses often err by prioritizing "smartness" or "team player" qualities over hiring the right person for the right role.

"You don't hire a smart person. You hire the right person for the right role."
— Emma Rainville [00:02]

Emma highlights the fundamental differences between creatives and operators, noting that creatives excel in ideation and flexibility, while operators thrive on structure and execution. Misalignment in these roles can lead to business chaos.

Guest Introduction and Personal Insights

Emma introduces her guest, Yada Golden, a messaging and leadership expert with experience in working with major brands. Yada shares her personal entrepreneurial journey, illustrating how neglecting operational aspects can stifle creative passion.

"I was spending 80% of my time doing the thing that I loved... by the time the business had grown, I was only doing what I loved, like, 20% of the time. And I was like, I hate everything else that I'm doing, and I'm not great at it."
— Yada Golden [02:31]

Yada explains the inevitable struggle between maintaining creative energy and managing operational logistics, ultimately realizing the necessity of delegating operational tasks to regain her creative spark.

The Critical Role of Operations in Marketing

Emma and Yada discuss the symbiotic relationship between marketing and operations, stressing that while marketing drives vision and creativity, operations ensure the feasibility and execution of these ideas.

"Operations is the glue that holds everything together."
— Yada Golden [05:56]

Emma underscores that operators should not stifle creativity but rather provide a reality check to ensure that creative ideas are actionable and deliverable.

Establishing Effective Iteration Loops

The conversation shifts to practical strategies for balancing creative freedom with operational control. Yada shares her approach to managing her team without micromanagement, fostering responsibility, and maintaining clear communication.

"I very much give them responsibility because I know... you're in charge of this thing. This is the due date."
— Yada Golden [10:56]

Emma elaborates on her own methods, including weekly "breaker" meetings and daily standups to ensure alignment and proactive problem-solving.

"We have a weekly call called a breaker... Here’s your goal for the quarter. Are you on? Are you off track?"
— Emma Rainville [12:41]

These structured iteration loops ensure that both creative and operational teams are synchronized, preventing misunderstandings and enhancing productivity.

Navigating Toxic Relationships Between Teams

Emma poses a critical question about handling toxic dynamics when creative and operations teams clash. Yada offers insights into fostering a harmonious environment by clarifying the company vision and ensuring that all team members are aligned with strategic goals.

"Help people see the vision. Vision. It's the bigger vision."
— Yada Golden [20:10]

She emphasizes the importance of translating the nebulous visions of entrepreneurs into concrete, actionable plans that all team members can understand and work towards collaboratively.

Strategies for High-Performance Team Alignment

Both Emma and Yada share actionable strategies to create a high-performing team dynamic:

1. Clear Vision Communication:

   • Ensure that the company vision is articulated clearly and documented.
   • Align all team members with the strategic goals and priorities.

2. Defined Roles and Responsibilities:

   • Hire the right individuals for specific roles based on their strengths.
   • Distinguish between creative and operational responsibilities to prevent overlaps and conflicts.

3. Regular Check-ins and Updates:

   • Implement structured meetings like weekly breakers and daily standups.
   • Foster open communication channels for status updates and proactive problem-solving.

4. Respecting Boundaries Between Teams:

   • Allow creative teams the freedom to innovate while operational teams manage feasibility.
   • Encourage a co-creation mindset where both teams work towards a unified goal.

5. Accountability and Responsibility:

   • Empower team members to take ownership of their tasks.
   • Maintain clear expectations and hold regular reviews to track progress.

Conclusion and Key Takeaways

Emma wraps up the episode by reiterating the importance of aligning creative and operational teams to foster a scalable and stress-free business environment. She introduces a free resource, the High Performance Hiring Blueprint, available at Special Ops Podcast, designed to aid listeners in hiring and managing diverse team roles effectively.

"You can't build a high performance business with the wrong people, and you can't manage the right people the wrong way."
— Emma Rainville [23:53]

Yada provides her contact information for listeners seeking further guidance.

"You can find me at YadaGolden.com."
— Yada Golden [23:53]

Emma encourages listeners to leverage the strategies discussed to transform their business teams into harmonious, high-performing units.

---

Notable Quotes

• Emma Rainville:

  • "You don't hire a smart person. You hire the right person for the right role." [00:02]
  • "Operations and marketing meets at the checkout page." [09:52]
  • "You need all of these different components. And I look at businesses that way. You've got your three violins, your two cellos, like the conductor." [22:44]

• Yada Golden:

  • "It's asking a lot of one person, like, if you're looking for unicorns, sure, go unicorn hunting. But good luck." [01:36]
  • "Operations is the glue that holds everything together." [05:56]
  • "Help people see the vision. Vision. It's the bigger vision." [20:10]

Resources Mentioned

• High Performance Hiring Blueprint: Accessible at www.specialopspodcast.com/vault
• Yada Golden’s Website: YadaGolden.com

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of Special Ops provides invaluable insights into the delicate balance required between creative and operational teams within a business. Emma Rainville and Yada Golden offer practical strategies and personal experiences that underscore the necessity of hiring the right people for specific roles and fostering a collaborative environment where both creativity and structure can thrive. By implementing the discussed techniques, listeners can transform potential conflicts into a harmonious, high-performing team dynamic, ultimately driving their businesses to new heights.

Transcript

[Emma Rainville]

Welcome to another episode of Special Ops Podcast. I'm Emma Rainville, your host and today let's talk about one of the biggest screw ups I see in businesses hiring. Most businesses get this wrong because they assume that they need a smart person or a team player. Sounds good, right? But here's the reality. You don't hire a smart person. You hire the right person for the right role. And guess what? Operations and creatives are wired entirely differently. Creatives thrive on ideas, risk taking and flexibility. Operators thrive on structure, systems and execution. Hire the wrong person for the wrong role and you're setting your business up for chaos. If you're struggling with hiring and managing these two different types of people, this episode is going to save you a lot of pain, wasted money, and a whole lot of headaches. Today I'm joined with my good friend Yada golden and a messaging and leadership expert who's worked with some of the biggest brands. In direct response, she's seen firsthand what happens when you hire the wrong people. And she's jumped in and fixed it before her clients pay the price. If you feel like your creative team is chaotic or your operations team is moving too slow, you probably don't have a hiring problem, you have a management problem. Today we're diving in to fix exactly that. So most businesses think that one interview can predict success and we know that that's bullshit.

[Yada Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

Thinking one type of person can do creative or could do operational roles is just insane. Right?

[Yada Golden]

Well, it's asking a lot of one person, like, if you're looking for unicorns, sure, go unicorn hunting. But good luck.

[Emma Rainville]

Right. Because I'm an operator. I work a lot in marketing operations. And a lot of people don't understand this. It's not a department, it's in every department. And that's usually someone who's an operator functioning with the creatives, not being a creative. And so they put their CMO or their director of marketing and they try and make them into an operator or they try and have them play nice together without setting up a structure. And it's just. So can you. And you've done a lot of this and fixing this for clients. Can you talk to me today about like a real time client example? You don't have to share their name where misalignment in hiring or just misalignment and communications between opposite marketing just created total chaos.

[Yada Golden]

Yeah, absolutely. I can actually give you my own example of me. Perfect. Yeah, it's, it's really interesting. So when I got into entrepreneurship, right when I started My entrepreneurial journey, I was just like, I was so full of ideas and creativity, and I was like, let's go. Like, everything's gonna be amazing, right? And you get. You're really. You typically start business because you're really good at doing something, and you love doing that. And you find proof of concept, people are paying you money for it, and you're like, this is awesome. And then all of a sudden, this, like, little monster starts growing behind you. And it's the monster of ops, right? Because it's like, well, how are more people going to get that? How are you going to automate it? How are you going to systematize? How are you going to create processes? Like, how are you going to manage the people that you need to help you to do the thing? And what I found was that where, when I started, I was spending 80% of my time doing the thing that I loved. By the time the business had grown and I had traction, I was only doing what I loved, like, 20% of the time. And I was like, I hate everything else that I'm doing, and I'm not great at it. Um, but the. The learning curve is high, right? But I was like, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna get past this. And the more and more I dove into ops and the logistics of the business, the more I felt like my creative light dimming. And I was just angry all of the time. And. And it was like I wanted to put some effort into it going well, but then I really just wanted to, like, rebel against the systems and the processes and just be, like, creative about it. Or I tried even worse being creative with the processes and the operations of the business, right? It's like, well, what if we try it this way and next month we're going to try it that other way? Drastic, right? But this is what creatives do. Like, we. We're the ones that stir the pot and we get things going, and that just doesn't work in operations. And that doesn't mean that a creative person can't be operationally functional, but they.

[Emma Rainville]

Do a lot better of a job if they're not.

[Yada Golden]

Totally. But is it their highest and best use? Is what I was going to say. And I really don't think so. And so when I was able to kind of hand that off, not only did the business start growing, but I also, like, found my spark again. Because I was like, oh, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. This is where my energy and, like, my attention and focus should be going. Rather than forcing myself into a space and a spot that I don't really fit in and nobody was happy with me there.

[Emma Rainville]

Well, I'm sure, because there's. There's like this thing in marketing where like, God, you have to, like, the sky has to be the limit. And actually there's a universe, so there is no limit. Right. And you have to be able to function off of. There are no bars.

[Yada Golden]

It's a what if.

[Emma Rainville]

Right. And then operations gets to come in and go, ooh, we can't deliver that. We need to dial that back to here. Can you guys do that? But you do, right?

[Yada Golden]

Right.

[Emma Rainville]

But you've created this great product. If you're sitting trying to create a product with, I wonder if they're going to be able to deliver it. I wonder if the, you know, if the system can handle it. I wonder if manufacturing can handle it. It's opp's job to go make sure that that can happen after the fact. That shouldn't be in Creative's wheelhouse at all.

[Yada Golden]

Yeah, it, it, it's really interesting now that, now that I understand the two sides of the business. Right. And, and I totally agree with what you're saying. I think that ops, the way that we describe it to our clients, it's kind of the glue that holds everything together. Right.

[Emma Rainville]

We have to. I sit all day long and I think about what's going to go wrong if we do this. That would kill.

[Yada Golden]

It's black hat.

[Emma Rainville]

It's very black hat Hill Creative.

[Yada Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

That would absolutely kill the soul of a creator.

[Yada Golden]

Yeah. Like, when you're sitting at the whiteboard going, like, what, what if we could do this? Right? And you' mapping everything out and you're throwing ideas against the wall and seeing if they stick. The last thing you want someone coming in is being like, well, you know, for every one person that we bring in, the cost is going to be blah, blah, blah. And we need to bring on this many salespeople. It's like, yes, but. Shut up. Like, I don't want to hear that right now. Right. We're just.

[Emma Rainville]

When we're done.

[Yada Golden]

Yeah, when we're done. When we're done. And we've decided that this is the route that we want to go now.

[Emma Rainville]

That person can come in and go, here's all the consequences we're going to have. And how do we. How do we fix that?

[Yada Golden]

Give us a reality check. Right. Well, how do we.

[Emma Rainville]

So if you have a operator, right. They're not going to be like, we can't do this, we can't do this, we can't do this. But they're going to say is we can only do this when we can only do this if we need this to do this. And it's just going to be, how do I position everything in a way that we can deliver it.

[Yada Golden]

But I think that that's such a key piece of this. The relationship that needs to be established between the creative and the ops person is one of co creation. Right? Because I think that a lot of times when people bring in an operator, it's a very oppositional relationship because the creative is like, well, I want to do these things. And they said that I can't until X, Y and Z happens or only if X, Y and Z happens. And I think that when you start as a creative, when you start seeing the boundaries that are being set for you as freedom to play within that box, I think everything changes, right? Because up until you accept that and you're just like, I'm this like unwieldy river that's like flowing all over the place and my operator is a canal that's channeling that energy towards a goal that I freaking said that I wanted. And so let's go.

[Emma Rainville]

Right, But I think that the, the operator needs to stay out of it. In the earlier stages, I've had marketers come to me and be like, what do you think about this? And I'm like, I have no opinion, I have no opinion right now because I have no idea where you're going to shape it into. And the more boundaries I set for you, the harder it is for you to, to dream a big dream. And so the best thing you can do is go build and, and dream a big dream and then I'll figure out how to dial it back and make it deliverable.

[Yada Golden]

Well, cast a vision. Right, right. Cast the vision. And then let's see how we can go about doing that. Because you may come back and be like, this is awesome. By the way, we're going to need to grow a team from 50 to 100 people. Are you good with that? And the creative could be like, I don't, you know, that's not really in, in the, the version of what I want to do. So like, let's dial it back. Right? But, but I think that that permission of like, yeah, okay, like this is what it's going to look like. Is that something that you want to do? And then deciding together, yes, we're going to dive into this is really powerful. Instead of being like, well, my operator is going to tell me that I can't do that or the common one. Right. But integrator. I hate my integrator.

[Emma Rainville]

Well, the problem with. The problem with there's a couple things. One thing is operations and marketing don't generally work on their relationship, and they need to be working on their relationship. The marketer has to feel completely free to experiment. That's so important. So, so important. And then the second thing is, is they can't feel like they're micromanaged by an operator. If an operator was creating the marketing, nothing would ever sell, by the way.

[Yada Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

Right. So everybody has their role, and they really need to be sitting and working. Something that Mikhail, from what Koda said to me, and I absolutely loved it. Operations and marketing meets at the checkout page. And that was like. It was such a great way of describing it.

[Yada Golden]

Right?

[Emma Rainville]

It was such a great way of describing it. I just. I absolutely love that. And I think in the middle of the podcast, I text myself what he said. I liked it. So I'm serious.

[Yada Golden]

You're like, it's my new tattoo, actually.

[Emma Rainville]

Like, seriously, I probably. I love making posters for my office and hanging them up and rotating them constantly. And so, yeah, I just absolutely loved that saying. And so let's talk for a minute about iteration loops. Because you work with operators regularly. You have to. And so how do you set up your iteration loop so that your operations team feels like they're in the know and they. Operators have to have control. We all need freaking control. If we don't have control, we're nightmares to deal with. And marketing likes that someone else has the control in the final decision, but they also like their freedom. So how do you. How do you create iteration loops so that you're being able to discuss with your operations team what you're doing and implementing things where it's a cadence where everybody feels like they're in their best self.

[Yada Golden]

Yeah. So I do my best to not micromanage my team. So we run an agency, and so there's a lot of moving pieces and parts for a lot of different businesses, a lot of projects going on all of the time. And so with my team, I very much give them responsibility because I know when I was doing the work right, I loved being told, hey, this is a project. This is the due date. Just get it done right? Like, we don't miss deadlines. Like, that's a hard stop. That's a hard stop. And so I do the same with my team. And I'm like, you're in Charge of this thing. This is the due date. If you have an issue or you get stuck, let me know. And at the end of the week, I get a report from all of my, from my employees, and then I give a report to all of my teams, and it's typically to the OPS person on that team. Right. And so I'm like, hey, this is what got worked on. This is the status of it. We're on track, we're off track, we're stuck. And you know, this is, this is an update for you. And typically that's enough because OPS just wants to know, are we on track? Right, right. We have a goal and are we on track? Do you need help? And I think that again, it's, it's the relationship for me. It's like, as long as I'm showing visibility, like they want oversight. Right.

[Emma Rainville]

Clear. Clear expectations.

[Yada Golden]

Clear expectations.

[Emma Rainville]

Clear expectations. If we agreed that this project was going to be done on February 20th, and I come to you on February 20th and you're like, oh, that's not getting done on May, and why am I hearing about this now? I need, I need clear expectations. I need to understand the step by step execution of what's about to happen. And then I need the stability and predictability because we've communicated those things.

[Yada Golden]

Right. And then there's also. So I think that you would probably want more detail because you've been involved.

[Emma Rainville]

For me, for me, I could never do the. Let me update you over email. That would never. In my businesses and all my businesses, we have a weekly call called a breaker. We take a break from working in the business and we work on the business. And I want a status update. Everybody has goals and to dos, and I want a status update on all those things. And it doesn't have to be crazy. It should not be long. It takes very, very little time. It's just like, here's your goal for the quarter. You on. Are you off track? Do you need help? Do you need resources? Are you stuck? What's going on? And then what did you work on this week? And I added that in probably about two years ago because I found that when you have to tell people what you've done, those quarterly goals will get done in about a month.

[Yada Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

And then we can work on refining, iterating, optimizing.

[Yada Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

And so for me, I need that. We do it for 90 minutes every week. And then at the end of that meeting, we go into just discussing, like, what do you. I'm proactive. Problem solving is huge for me. Don't come to me with a problem. Come to me when I should look at it before it becomes a problem.

[Yada Golden]

Right.

[Emma Rainville]

And so we spend whatever time left is on that call. It starts and ends on time, whatever time is left on that call. We call it the signals list, where everybody needs to be signaled to so it doesn't become an issue. And we run through it. And if we finish early, which is most of the time, we buy back our time, we go back to work. And if. If we need to take it right up, we prioritize making sure on urgency, we're getting through everything. And if we don't get to something, it was low priority anyway, and we can talk about it next week.

[Yada Golden]

Right.

[Emma Rainville]

But I. I need that.

[Yada Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

But then I. I don't need anything else. I've been updated. I understand. I know everybody has had an opportunity to get help in their thing, and then we have a standup meeting every day. Every single day, and it's just a good morning. Anybody need anything? Nope.

[Yada Golden]

Peace. Yeah, we have the same. We have a standup meeting. And I think it's. I think it's different because I think you're talking about, like, running companies. I'm talking about being, like an outsourced marketing department for a company. So I'm really giving them a status update on something that they're looking for us to have leadership on. Right. So I'm just like, hey, everything's on track. So it's a little.

[Emma Rainville]

Well, this isn't. Well, we are ops outsourced to companies. Same thing you're marketing on ops. Fractional. But for. This is. I want to know everything that's going on with all the business, because even.

[Yada Golden]

In this conversation, it's very apparent, like, I'm a creative. So I'm just like, oh, like, it's. It's fine, it's fine. It's fine.

[Emma Rainville]

Worry about it.

[Yada Golden]

Like, everything's on track. And you're like, what are the goals? Where are we going? What are we doing? Right.

[Emma Rainville]

And it's.

[Yada Golden]

But.

[Emma Rainville]

Absolutely. But.

[Yada Golden]

But businesses need both, right? No, no.

[Emma Rainville]

Yes.

[Yada Golden]

And I think that's like. That's the actual beautiful part when you really start understanding it for a long time. I would roll my eyes at the ops conversation. I was just like, oh, my God, they're so annoying.

[Emma Rainville]

My marketing team loves the breaker. Yeah, they love the breaker because one of the things that they get to do is if something's so. And we don't ever allow anyone to. I call it dimming the light. I don't Dim the light on the marketing team. If they're asking questions, we're giving them factual answers, no feelings, and that's it. Because when they're building something, it might be like, hey, from an FTC standpoint, like, before I go down this rabbit hole, can I do this? Can I say that is like, here's my big idea for this entire funnel. I don't want to have to go back and redo it. Is that okay? And we're, we're factual.

[Yada Golden]

I find that's when I actually go to ops. When we're wr writing copy and we're doing like bonuses or, you know, the features and benefits and things like that. And I'm like, this sounds really good and I know it'll sell, but can they do that? Deliver that? You know, and because I'm like, well, I can write it on the page, but if you can't deliver it, it doesn't make any sense right now. And so that's when I find myself flagging ops a lot and just being like, hey, can you, can you come and tell me if, like, we're smoking crack over here or are we, like, you're smoking crack? Yeah, most of the time.

[Emma Rainville]

Most of the time. But let me show you how you dial that back a little bit. I love that creatives need such, you know, flexibility and vision.

[Yada Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

Where operators need structure and consistency. And so talk to me about how when you have a big project for a client, you guys will build whole funnels out for people. When you have a bigger project like that, how are you balancing the two so that everything gets. Because you guys do it fast.

[Yada Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

So how you balancing the two so that everything gets done and it gets done good enough that it can actually launch?

[Yada Golden]

Yeah. Everything starts with strategy. We will not move until a strategy is mapped out. And both.

[Emma Rainville]

That sounds very operational. I've never known a marketer who planned a thing.

[Yada Golden]

Yeah, well, we've done this so many times where we're just like, just start, you know, write some copy. And it's like, well, okay, but what kind of funnel is it? Is it a challenge? Is it a webinar? Is it a two step order form? Is it like, what are we doing? You know, whatever you think. Yeah, like, we'll figure it out later. Like, no, we tried that for a really long time until we got sick and tired of it. And I was like, you know what? Like, we will not move a muscle until we have the strategy mapped out, our team and client has signed off, and then we typically start with our lead piece of content, whether that be a sales page or a challenge or whatever it happens to be. And we get all of the messaging, we get the offer, like, we get everything down. And then once we have that piece, everything else goes so much smoother because everything's been approved, everything's been vetted. Like, everything's been okay, you know, double checked by everyone.

[Emma Rainville]

It's just checking box.

[Yada Golden]

Exactly. At that point, I'm like, okay, we're doing emails, we're doing text messages, we're doing opted. Like, we're doing all the things and design, like all of that is. It's fine, right? Like, it can be changed very easily, but the main, like the big rocks of the project have to be solid and, And I'm like, I'm a huge stickler. I'm just like, once we approve something, it's approved. And if we change something in the lead piece of content, we're going back. Like, nothing is happening until this gets approved and is like sealed. It's like in stone. We're not changing anything. And if we do change it down the line, because what happens is like, let's say we lock down an offer and we start writing all of the copy and we go ahead and write the emails and the ads and everything. And then it's like, oh, no, we're dropping that bonus. From a marketing perspective, it's like, no big deal. Just take it off the sales page. But from a copy perspective, all my copywriters are like, wait, we have to go back and like, change all of the emails and all of the, the ads and everything. Because you guys took something out, right? And so it creates double, triple, quadruple work when you're just having a lot of cooks in the kitchen. And so I'm like, forget it. Like, I need everything approved every single step along the way before we move. And then we can get everything done really fast.

[Emma Rainville]

Yeah, that's really great. I love that. We're going to wrap up in a second, but I just want to go back for, for just a moment, if I could. When you have operators and creatives, when you come in and it's just toxic and they're just. Because it happens. Yeah, it happens to us all the time. We'll come in and they're just like, they're just bitching about each other and you can't get through one productive meeting because everybody just wants to be write and they want to talk rather than listen. What do you do? Like, what's the strategy that you've used to. Because I know we've talked about this, and you've been successful at this. I'm like, fire everybody and start over. It's so much easier. But you're like, hey, let's salvage this. Talk to me about how you come in and you just recreate a symphony of people being able to communicate and work together.

[Yada Golden]

That sounds so nice, a symphony. I think I would. I would err on the side of saying it's helping people see the vision. Vision. It's the bigger vision. Right. We have to. It's funny because we. The business owner is typically the visionary.

[Emma Rainville]

Right, Right.

[Yada Golden]

And a lot of times, they hold that vision. Really?

[Emma Rainville]

All the time. Yeah, I wrote a whole book on it. All the time.

[Yada Golden]

All the time.

[Emma Rainville]

They believe that. They've explained the vision to everyone. Exactly.

[Yada Golden]

I was gonna say they all painted. So dear.

[Emma Rainville]

I painted the Sistine Chapel for you. And meanwhile, it's like, sell shit.

[Yada Golden]

Yeah, that's.

[Emma Rainville]

That's what people hear. And when you go into companies every time. Every time, and you say, what's the vision of the company? Everybody will give you a different answer.

[Yada Golden]

Yeah.

[Emma Rainville]

So.

[Yada Golden]

But no, that's. That's exactly it. It's like they hold the vision so dearly but so tightly, and they think that they do a great job of explaining it.

[Emma Rainville]

They also think they understand the vision, but until they put it to paper, they actually don't.

[Yada Golden]

Totally. Well, because it's. It's like, I feel. So I started as a copywriter, right? And I. And I loved writing because I felt like writing forced me to make sense of my thoughts, because until I sat down, I was like, okay, now I need a timeline. Now I need actual words that convey the feelings and the thoughts. And do I need to put this in or do I leave it out? Right. Like, there was a lot of thought that goes into writing, and I think that the same thing happens with vision. It's kind of this, like, nebulous thing that's in their minds, and they feel it more than they see it, and they want to convey that feeling to the team. And the team is, like, so eager most of the time to do a good job and to please and to be like, yeah, we got this. That the. The visionary is like, and we're going to sell stuff. And everyone's like, yeah, we're going to sell stuff. Don't worry about it. We got it, boss. And the boss leaves. And the team's like, do you know what we're doing? And the ops team is like, no, we don't. We're not really sure, but, like, let's do something right? And so I think if we can bring in the visionary and help them get the message and the vision out and then communicate that to the team with timelines and tasks and, like, priority and due dates, that's what makes the difference. Because then people are like, oh, I know how to do a good job now. And I know that the ops team is just trying to help me do a good job. And the ops team is like, okay, you know, marketing creative is over there, like, being crazy. But I know that they're in that chaos. Something good is going to come out that I can use so that we can move this project forward. And so I think that's where that symphony happens.

[Emma Rainville]

It's a symphony. It 100% is. You need all of these different components. And I look at businesses that way. You've got, you know, your three violins, your two cellos, like the conductor. Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely. Absolutely. And the visionary is the guy above on stage. Because we're in the pit above on stage going, yes, it's all me, 100%. I absolutely have that vision in my head of business.

[Yada Golden]

I love that.

[Emma Rainville]

All right, well, if you get some value out of this today, we've got something for you. We put together a free tool that's going to make hiring and managing these two very different types of people a hell of a lot easier. We created the high performance hiring blueprint, and you can get it inside the visionary vault at www.specialopspodcast.com. forward slash, vault. You can't build a high performance business with the wrong people, and you can't manage the right people the wrong way. Get this right and your business will scale faster with way less stress. Thank you so much for coming. How do people find you?

[Yada Golden]

Yeah, absolutely. You can find [e-mail] and it's Y A R A G O l d e n.com for those of you who.

[Emma Rainville]

Do not catch that her name is dumb. And I've said this like three times. Y A R A though her name is yada yada yada yada. Thank you so much for joining me. And we're gonna do a bunch of these, so I'm super excited. Thank you.

[Yada Golden]

Thanks.