Spittin' Chiclets Episode 607: Featuring Joe Bowen

Summary

Spittin’ Chiclets Episode 607: Featuring Joe Bowen

Date: December 23, 2025
Hosts: Ryan Whitney, Paul “Biz Nasty” Bissonnette, Rear Admiral, Mike Grinnell
Special Guest: Joe Bowen – Hall of Fame Voice of the Toronto Maple Leafs

---

Episode Overview

This episode delivers the outspoken and rambunctious hockey banter Spittin’ Chiclets is known for, topped off with a much-anticipated and heartwarming interview with legendary Maple Leafs broadcaster Joe Bowen. The crew tackles current NHL storylines—from the ECHL player strike and hot teams to contract debates, playoff hopes and frustrations, and unforgettable moments in hockey history. Bowen joins to reminisce about his storied 44-year career, classic Leaf moments, and the art of hockey play-by-play.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

NHL Minor Leagues: ECHL Strike and Calder Cup Rings (09:14–16:22)

• ECHL player strike: The boys discuss demands for higher league minimum, improved per diem, and helmet rules for player safety. Biz and Whit, as small minority owners, express support for players and criticize owner pushback.
  • “If it came down to me having to fork over my less than 1% share of the Greensboro Gargoyles, fucking take it. Give it to the guys.” —Peter Chiarelli | 15:05
• Calder Cup rings delay: Calgary’s AHL farm team hasn’t received their championship rings; discussion on how hard minor leaguers grind for little reward.

Salary Cap & Superteams: Contract Length Debate (28:25–41:54)

• Idea floated (by Biz) to shorten NHL contract maximums—a system where stars sign for 4–5 years, promoting player mobility, “super teams,” and competitive balance, but with risks for middle-tier players.
• “I want to see more deals like the Quinn Hughes deal... and just watch better people. Like the hockey’s way better.” —Biz Nasty | 33:32

League Round-Up: Notable Teams and Players

• Detroit’s Moritz Seider Emerges (62:11–67:48):
  • Lauded as a rare mean, offensive defenseman—potential Norris and Olympic game-changer.
  • “All the Red Wings fans who were telling me, Moritz Seider, now you guys saying for the Hart. I’m not there yet, but for Norris. 100%. 100%.” —Whitney | 64:45
• Buffalo Surges (68:53–74:19):
  • Sabres rattle off wins after coaching change; Dahlen’s viral end-to-end goal; optimism the playoff drought could finally end.
  • “Keep with the positivity, Buffalo. You deserve it. We love you more than anyone. 14 frigging years? Are you kidding me?” —Whitney | 74:19
• Toronto Meltdown/New Direction:
  • Whit laments betting heavy on Leafs’ regular-season points over, with Toronto now one loss from last in division; discussion of firing assistant coach Mark Savard.
  • “For a guy who hates the Leafs, I would almost feel as… I’d love this. They’re not even getting the same amount of fans. The attendance is down. They stink.” —Whitney | 83:11

---

Joe Bowen Interview

Start: 91:25

Overview

Bowen reflects on 44 years as the voice of the Toronto Maple Leafs, sharing behind-the-scenes stories, insights on the Leafs’ perennial struggle, the unique craft of hockey play-by-play, and memories of hockey’s greats. The tone throughout is a warm mix of reverence and humor.

Highlights & Memorable Quotes

• On Coaching Changes and Leafs' Struggles (93:18–96:44):
  • Bowen draws parallels to Pat Burns’ philosophy on coaching shelf life and the dynamics of players “tuning out” coaches.
  • “Even the great ones, like Scotty Bowman, got fired in Buffalo, so those things happen… it seems like it’s almost the inevitable.” —Joe Bowen | 92:58
• On Announcing Style and Preparation:
  • Started as a ball-hockey announcer in the backyard; honed skills on the Sudbury Wolves’ bus.
  • Every play-by-play announcer develops a unique preparation and cadence.
  • “You have to develop a style and not only repetition and… riding the bus get you to that stage.” —Joe Bowen | 105:34
• Creation of ‘Holy Mackinaw!’ (109:47):
  • A family saying, possibly from his father; various theories exist, but its thunderous delivery became his iconic exclamation.
  • “Of all the kind of attention that I’m getting here… people from Mackinac island… and then hold, I don’t… They’re all trying to take credit for it!” —Joe Bowen | 110:31
• Reflections on Famous Leaf Eras & Personal Memories (119:54–124:11):
  • Experiences in the Harold Ballard years, Wendell Clark era, and close playoff runs—especially 1993.
  • On the “homer” label, he quips:
    • “I’m an objective homer. And if they’re not playing well… you can’t whitewash a picket fence that doesn’t have anything in it.” | 115:03
• Favorite Players/Teammates:
  • Cites Wendell Clark, Dougie Gilmour, Curtis Joseph, Mats Sundin, and iconic lesser-known friends, emphasizing the difficulty of narrowing it down from so many greats.
• On Brawls and Wild Times:
  • Tales of legendary fights: Wendell Clark’s brawl with Steve Smith and mothers almost coming to blows.
  • Laments the “mayhem” of old-time hockey: “It was a lot more physical. There was a lot more mayhem. It was an interesting time….” | 114:29
• Hockey Announcer “Slumps” (131:19):
  • “No, you do. You make mistakes. You misidentify a guy… everybody does.”
• Summit Series & Maple Leafs Legacy (139:18):
  • Closes with a Summit Series story, stopping Daryl Sittler three times in a reunion game (“Sittler wouldn’t talk to me for two months!”).

---

Notable Quotes: Rapid-Fire

• “There’s a great thing to being dumb as a bag of hammers, you know, and in sports, a lot of times, being that dumb really kind of helps you out.” —Joe Bowen | 97:13
• “You gotta get into a routine… You need to ride the bus. You really do.” —Joe Bowen | 105:10
• “God bless you, boys!” (Bowen’s impromptu call after a desperate Leafs OT playoff win) | 137:03

---

Other Memorable Segments

• Jack Hughes & Tate McRae Buzz: Jack Hughes’ return to the Devils is tabloid fodder as he’s seen with pop star Tate McRae; snipes a goal in his comeback.
• Canadian Olympic Hopes: Discussion of how injuries (Carolina’s Slavin, Jarvis) may affect Team USA and general Olympic outlooks for key players.
• Flyers Hot Mic Incident (149:01):
  • Hysterical discussion of the recent “Would you mind blowing me?” Flyers broadcaster gaffe, with the boys laughing—“I listened to it five times; I laughed harder each time.” —Whitney

---

Recurring Theme: “I Love You”

Throughout the episode, the Chiclets hosts repeatedly jab and tease, but also drop frequent “I love you” affirmations—a recurring joke towards fans, each other, and hockey’s extended family.

• “Even though you hate me, I love you. And I wish the best things happen to you.” —Biz Nasty | 16:41

---

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------|---------------| | ECHL Strike & Minor League Issues | 09:14–16:22 | | NHL Contract Length Debate | 28:25–41:54 | | Moritz Seider/Norris Trophy Discussion | 62:11–67:48 | | Sabres’ Hot Streak | 68:53–74:19 | | Leafs Woes & Firing of Mark Savard | 81:06–86:55 | | Joe Bowen Joins (Interview) | 91:25–143:06 | | Flyers Hot Mic Incident | 149:01 |

---

Final Thoughts

This episode is both a lively trip through hockey’s contemporary issues and a heartfelt celebration of one of the sport’s broadcasting icons. Listeners are treated to insider stories, passionate debates on everything from youth hockey pads to superstar contracts, and the unapologetic candor fans expect. Joe Bowen’s segment, in particular, captures the essence of hockey nostalgia and the impact of a legendary voice on generations of fans.

Transcript

[Biz Nasty]

Hey, Spit and Chicklets listeners. You can find every episode on Apple.

[Joe Bowen]

Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube Prime.

[Biz Nasty]

Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music.

[Joe Bowen]

Cracker Barrel is home to all the more country anytime. That means buttermilk pancakes whenever you want them.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Homemade classics like chicken and dumplings.

[Keith Yandle]

And a country store full of fun finds.

[Joe Bowen]

Swing by and visit Cracker Barrel today. So y' all know that we're big fans of Cracker Barrel. And this holiday season I will be sat at their table with a big plate of country fried turkey.

[Keith Yandle]

And Brandon, I'll be right there with.

[Peter Chiarelli]

You and I'll check it off my.

[Biz Nasty]

Christmas list in the country store while I'm at it.

[Joe Bowen]

It'll make a nice holiday tradition.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Oh, that's so cute of you. Enjoy all the more holiday traditions only at Cracker Barrel.

[Keith Yandle]

Me and Ryan have been officially welcomed.

[Joe Bowen]

To the jungle that is barstool sports.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I brought it toward the Coyotes and I asked them if it was okay if I joined the Spit Chickens podcast full time.

[Biz Nasty]

Ryan, Whit a pink Whitney out there now.

[Joe Bowen]

Sandbagger. Get that on camera.

[Biz Nasty]

Keith Yandel, the song man is a full time member. Marley just got an assist from Chris Beat.

[Keith Yandle]

Whoa, we're buzzing right now.

[Biz Nasty]

What is up, folks? Welcome to episode 607 of the Spit Chicklets podcast presented by Discover. We're sponsored by Discover, the official credit card of the National Hockey League. No matter if your team wins or loses, Discover is there for you. With cash back on all of your post game purchases. With Discover it card, you can earn cash back on every purchase to Celebratory wings just got even tastier. Learn [e-mail] credit card cash back on team gear. Cash back on tickets. Cash back on french fries. They always include that. I love my french fries. The Discover NHL Winter Classic is taking place on January 2, 202026 in Miami, Florida. Tune into TNT and Biz Nasty. Get cash back on every purchase with the Discover it card and learn [e-mail] credit card. Boys, boys, boys, boys, boys. Last show before Christmas. What is up?

[Keith Yandle]

Beginning to look a lot like Christmas.

[Biz Nasty]

Speaking of amazing voice with Keech. That. That was incredible. You get that low level. Joe Bowen joined. We just finished the interview. The voice of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Over 3,000 games in the Hockey hall of Fame. An incredible guy, an awesome interview. A comedian basically. I'd love to have a drink with him. Or as he calls it, a crown. And diet diet soda, I believe. Diet Coke. What a guy. So I hope everyone tunes into that interview. Is awesome biz. How's Vancouver? How was the weekend?

[Peter Chiarelli]

Oh, it was great. Got to spend some times with some friends. Went to an awesome lunch on Friday at a place.

[Biz Nasty]

Salad. Salad?

[Peter Chiarelli]

What do you mean salad?

[Biz Nasty]

Did you get a salad?

[Peter Chiarelli]

I believe we started with a salad, but that was.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah.

[Peter Chiarelli]

And then we had 14 different fishes to the table just like we did in L. A. But no, it was good to spend a little time with. With the whole crew. Ended up going on a double date with Pasha. That was fun. We don't need to get too much into the details.

[Biz Nasty]

Pasha, like, is he just. Is he like holding hands like sweet nothings during lunch?

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Keith Yandle]

Was it his girlfriend's?

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yep. Yeah, we're not going to get too much into the details. I just want to say that. Yes. Get you guys fired up.

[Keith Yandle]

We had a great double date. How did the night end?

[Peter Chiarelli]

Great double date. Pasha lined it up and we went to an awesome. Another Italian restaurant. But overall just filled up the love love tank with friends around the area here in Vancouver. And yeah, it was. It was a great weekend. And yesterday I was supposed to fly home and then my flight got completely canceled. So I was like, ah, fault. We got the pod today. I'm just going to stick around and we're going to interview Joe Bowen and spark the leafs up because this is the spark they needed. The run starts now. It's exactly where Berube was when he won the Stanley cup with the St. Louis Blues near dead last in the league. So anything to get the Maple Leafs going. We're trying it. And getting hall of fame announcer and play by play guy Joe Bowen on is. Is the key to this?

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah, imagine. Imagine there's their whispers at lunch. It's like biz is like, I'm gonna turn you to a pretzel later. And then Pasha's like, jack Hughes is back tonight, baby. And then the waiter's like, what the fuck is going on with these two guys right now? That's basically your romantic Christmas lunch with Pasha.

[Keith Yandle]

It's a smart move by biz taking a girl out to eat on the first date because if you can get through the way he eats at dinner or lunch. Yeah, you can get through anything. You know what I mean? So that's a very smart move by Pasha and his girl because it could. If she sees you eat, she could eat. Either be like, oh my God, I can never do this again. Or she's just like, I'm in the farm animals.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I actually ate before I went to dinner so she didn't have to witness It.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah.

[Biz Nasty]

Really?

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yeah.

[Biz Nasty]

That's how I get before, like, she left after you ordered, possibly. And you're not even including that. Like, she didn't even get to stay for the meal. You changed so many things on each menu item that she's like, I'm out for everybody listening.

[Peter Chiarelli]

This is why I mentioned that, so these guys could just carve me for four minutes about my ordering, my eating. This is what I would do. This is what I would do every morning in the Coyotes locker room. I would just throw up a big softball of Yans and then shrapnel.

[Keith Yandle]

Next thing you know, practice is starting in the day, in the hour and a half that is usually mundane. It's fun.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Oh, yeah. That's what we needed to do. But it was great, man. And. And obviously took in a lot of hockey this weekend. Some great matchups.

[Biz Nasty]

I mean, Minnesota Sunday that you called them, you called out the league. It was. I think we had 10 games.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yeah. Yeah. Goodell's shaking in his boots right now, but I mean, with. With the addition of Quinn Hughes, I feel like Minnesota, like, every time they're on, I want to watch them just as much as I watch Colorado, it turns out. Who do they get to play this weekend? They get Edmonton and then Colorado on a back to back. So just so fun watching those games. Obviously, the Leafs, who have been in struggling mightily. The Buffalo Sabres. So we got a lot to dive into, but just an incredible weekend of hockey and things are rolling in the National Hockey League. What? Wait, whoa. What did you guys get up to this weekend?

[Biz Nasty]

Yes. What'd you do? Exciting.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Oh, wait, you went and collected your 50. 50 winnings? We kind of dove into that last pot a little bit. What did you end up winning at a. At a Florida Panthers. 50. 50 rap. Like, what is that? You probably. It's probably an IOU. You owe them.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, it was. It was funny because, like, the guy. Guy was texting me. He's like, hey, can you come and get this? Because I had left the game early with like 10 minutes left in the third. And then I got the text on the way home, and I actually thought it was a joke. Like, me and my buddy Frank, we were dying laughing, and then the guy's like, hey, can you come in the next few days to pick it up? I'm like, yeah, sure. He's like, one of the. One of the girls who worked for me. Danny will come and meet you. And I'm like, fuck. There used to be a girl that used to help us out with the charity stuff to work for the Panthers. I hope it's not her. Like, I hope it's just. I thought it was like an outside energy entity that took care of it, but no, it's the Florida Panthers. So I walk in there and it's all these people that I used to work with, they're dying, laughing. They're like, this actually worked out great because all these people think the 5050 is fake and that nobody wins it. And I'm like, well, now they're really going to think it's fake. So we're going to like.

[Biz Nasty]

You're not leaving with this check, right?

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's basically a give back. But yeah, it honestly made for a fun ride. Go, go to the rink, see the people and sign out my life, give them my W2s and all that stuff. But yeah, it was funny. So having haven't got it yet, I think I don't know when they send it and then I have to send it back. So that was good. The Friday night.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Abbotsford Heat, the Canucks farm team waiting on their rings.

[Biz Nasty]

I saw that story. Come on, guys, get the guys their rings here. I mean, you grind, you're basically losing money. When you win the Calder cup, you're still paying rent. Yeah, as a player, you're just grinding love of the game, love to try to get a title like Biz did. I mean, I remember we went to the Calder cup finals in Wilkes Barre right after I left BU and it's a lot, dude, you're kind of like, fuck, man, it's a long season, but I'm trying to get a ring here. Now they don't even get the rings. What's going on there?

[Peter Chiarelli]

Basically the way like what you're describing though is like we went all the way to the finals and didn't win. I believe the team who wins the Calder cup or at least at the time would make double of what the losing team would make. So I want to say after that full run to the, to the finals, when I was with Wilkes Bear, we might have gotten like 11 grand. Well, you have to extend your lease at your apartment for two and a half more months. You're paying for, for more food and bills and everything like that. So you're basically at a break even. So these guys grind all the way. Ended up winning the final. I get, I think they beat the Charlotte Checkers and now, you know, the Vancouver Canucks are kind of getting emails about, hey, hey, hey, where the are our rings? We didn't make any money we're hoping to pawn these bad boys off so we can make a little bit of coin for that run we just went on. So on top of that, we got the ECHL players striking. So there's a lot going on in these minor leagues right now.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah. Can you go into. Now, the only thing that was going to come from us being small, small minority owners of an East Coast Hockey League team is. Is basically the league falling apart. So, I mean, we mush any team, we pump their tires and any team, we chirp, they go on six game winning streak, shout out, Buffalo. We've gotten into the East Coast Hockey League and now the players are going on strike. Do you. Can you explain what's happening? Because I'll speak out against the owners. I'll be player's side like the owners myself. You.

[Peter Chiarelli]

You take my stake in the team. Take it.

[Biz Nasty]

I don't want it. I don't want to screw over any players living in. In. In some, you know, maybe not great areas. Although Greensboro is beautiful. Beautiful and be grinding through the East Coast Hockey League. Keith said it earlier, they probably just want like a stick.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Oh, well, first of all, like, on a more serious note, like, I feel like some of the stuff that I heard from the player rep was like pretty basic stuff, like bumping up the per diem pack on the road so these guys can go eat and Internet.

[Biz Nasty]

At your house, not.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Not come out of pocket for meals there. They do have a. A deal. I believe it's with Warrior. And a lot of the players who, especially some who have dealt with concussions, they don't want to wear the Warrior helmet because maybe it's not. It's not comfortable or it doesn't fit their noggin. Like, I feel like the helmet is the one piece of equipment that you should be able to say, no, that's what I want to wear. Obviously skates too, but we're talking about concussions here. So they made a rule that the only way that you could get out of wearing a Warrior bucket was if you'd had a concussion, where it's like.

[Biz Nasty]

No, no, let's wait till they all get one.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Let's wait till they get a concussion to send in the doctor's note so then they could switch out to me. That's completely ridiculous. No, that's gotta change. So there was a laundry list of stuff that, That I don't know why the. Some of the owners were pushing back on now. Mind you, the Greensboro ownership group, we don't have say in a sense of the first vote or the vote that went on like recently, where now we're. They're dealing with a strike. So all I'll say, like, get back to the table. All these reasonable requests, just check them off the list. Because, like, at this point, if they're going to keep bickering, like, I don't want any involvement in this because I feel like the players deserve everything that they're asking for and cleaning, including to raise the league minimum up to a reasonable amount. I know when I played the league minimum was $250 in, in. In the ECHL. Keep in mind, folks home like a week now, they, they had their, their living covered and obviously all the gear and in whatever gear that they could get at that time, I believe at league minimum now is 550 per week, and they're asking for that to get bumped up to a certain amount. So listen, I, I'm not at the negotiating table, but everything when I talk to the player representation was sounded very reasonable in order to get. So I would imagine that this doesn't last very long. So we dealt with that situation when they, when they. The ECHL player relief fund, when Covid was going on, when all of a sudden, yeah, I get that the ownership owners were struggling because there was going to be no gate, but the players were going to basically be out of 80% of their salary. And everybody ended up stepping up and figuring out how to make that work and getting the players paid even though they weren't playing hockey. But I definitely imagine in this situation that, that the owners will have to step up and figure out how to properly compensate these players. And that's really all I can say right now because I'm not in the midst of it. I just got a text about it and I'm like, hey, man, anything you need from us? I was a former player in the. I feel like everything that I'm hearing right now is very reasonable. Let's just get this fucking thing done in biz.

[Keith Yandle]

At the end of the day, who. It's hurting the players and the people who go and watch it. And some of those small towns, like, that's all they have in those cities, like, that's what their date nights are. That's what they're bringing their kids to do to waste time on a weekend. So you can't take this away from them. You got to give them what they deserve. And obviously, like you said, they're not asking for the moon, right? They're asking for a couple extra bucks and, you know, the right equipment to Keep each other safe too, right? So I think it's a no brainer.

[Biz Nasty]

My helmet.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Like I don't think this is going to cut it. But also keep in mind, I would say at least half the rosters on these ECHL teams are NHL affiliated, where these guys have signed NHL contracts. So those aren't the guys who are making league minimum in the echl. There's probably a few guys per team, but they're just simply trying to get that bumped up to a reasonable amount. Where guys who play in the ECHL who are on NHL contracts, the least they can make is the AHL deal that they sign. So some of these guys on entry levels with their signing bonus and let's say they're making like 65, 70 in the American League, majority of them are making over 100k USD. That's what I made at the time when, when I signed with the Pittsburgh penguins, I had 175k signing bonus. And I want to say I made 55, 60, 65 my first three years on that entry level. So with the bonus check you're getting every year, including your salary, I was just, I think I was at 105, maybe 110 per season on average. So remember, that's back then the cost of living and all these things have gone up. So I feel like if you're playing in the ECHL and the least amount you're making should be around that, you know, 55, 60K mark, maybe, maybe, maybe a little bit less than that. You roll your eyes, Whip, but it's hard, right?

[Biz Nasty]

No, no, I'm saying, I'm saying I agree with you. I'm saying like, yeah, it seems like that, that that's doable.

[Keith Yandle]

No wonder why guys are leaving the AHL to go play in college.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, yeah, so I remember I'm not as informed as the, the representation for the ECHL players would be. So the phpa, they can tell you everything you need to know about what they're. The owners are being completely unreasonable about the helmet. Things seem very odd. The per diem situation seem very odd and also the, the bumping up league minimum. So I don't know what the laundry list is. Go look into it if you're that interested. But it's clear that we're a player podcast. We're going to support the players and if it came down to me having a fork over my less than 1% share of the Greensboro Gargoyles, fucking take it. Give it to the guys. I don't care. I just want to see hockey in Greensboro thrive and. And guys in the ECHL get what they think that they deserve. So shout out to the Echo like.

[Biz Nasty]

An owner that's crossed the picket line and been out there with the players. Because we could be out there, we could get like some helmets, not maybe the helmets they want. And then we're out there. We're just looking at like our counterparts on the other side. Help these guys out. And we're just chanting and cheering. I. I could do that. I could see ourselves all doing well.

[Peter Chiarelli]

The way that our. Our fans are revolting. I might be back playing in the ECHL before I know it. So who knows, man? After this. After this.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah, some people really hate our guts.

[Peter Chiarelli]

They hate us.

[Biz Nasty]

And now listen, I've. I've had a long time since I was in Edmonton and the end of Pittsburgh and the Ducks fans were quiet, but they were out there. People have hated me for. For many years. So I don't love that any of the Chicklets fans hate us now. But what are you going to do? I still love you. I still love you.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I love you.

[Biz Nasty]

I don't care if you hate me. I love you. And you can remember every night as you hate me and you write me mean things. I still love you. And I wish the best things happened to you. And I wish that you have a wonderful Christmas or Hanukkah or Kwanzo, whatever you celebrate. I love you. Even though you hate me.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I got a question. What's Kwonzo?

[Biz Nasty]

I think Kwanzaa is an African celebration of Christmas. Now that might be completely inaccurate. You've heard of Kwanzaa?

[Keith Yandle]

Kwanzo, which is even funnier.

[Biz Nasty]

Kwanzo might be like an old game on the Price is Right. I think Kwanzaa is a legitimate celebration. African celebration of Christmas. G maybe. Kwanzaa is an annual non religious celebration of African American culture, community and heritage observed from December 26 to January 1. Founded in 1966 by Dr. Muellana Karenga, it is based on African Harvest festival traditions and aims to reaffirm cultural ties and community bonds in the African diaspora.

[Peter Chiarelli]

So I've said this before. My mother was born in Chicago and she's 50% black because my grandfather was full, full, full black. Can I celebrate Kwanzaa?

[Keith Yandle]

Whatever you want.

[Biz Nasty]

Anyone can. That's the best part about all these different shit. You could, you know, you could celebrate anything you want, right? I mean, there may be people who really are disappointed we left YouTube for Netflix on the podcast episodes that say you can't celebrate anything. Yeah, but I'm telling you, biz, what I say I love you.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I love you too, buddy. I think I would assume by reading this too, about Kwanzaa, there's not really, like a gift giving situation. So I'm really down with this.

[Biz Nasty]

We actually should celebrate Festivus. And do you know what Festivus is? Did you ever watch Seinfeld?

[Peter Chiarelli]

I did. I remember seeing the episode. But can you remind me for.

[Biz Nasty]

For our young listeners, that was a Costanza household Christmas tradition in which I believe instead of a tree, they just had like a metal pole in the house. And you'd sit around dinner and you'd tell each person something you didn't like about them. So it was a very, you know, it was kind of like what people are telling us about Netflix. We're celebrating Festivus, but we're just hearing what people hate about us. And guess what? When it's my turn to say something bad about you, I'm going to say, I love you. I love your Christmas sweater. I love the beard that you have where you. Or maybe if you shaved your beard, you missed the spot, but I still love it. And I love all you guys, okay? I promise you that. I also, I also this weekend, I had to remind Ryder. So we're passing the pads for town hockey team. This is the Mike team. Passing the pads. It was his turn to play goalie. The pads, let me say, they're disgraced. They're. They're my. They're, they're basically street hockey pads. They don't get tight enough. It's kind of been like an issue. But whatever, they're the pads we have. And he played goalie and he went down and the pad moved. And for an 8 year old kid, shot it pretty hard right off the kneecap. I knew right away and when ride riders had a lot of big spills, right, he gets knocked down a little bit. Very skinny kid. He always pops back up, though. And as my wife said, like, I don't know if that's because, like, he's a tough kid. I think he is. You know, he's like, he knows I got to get up. I'm not injured. I got to get up. Or he's just petrified of you. He always gets up. This one. I could hear the tears. I went out there. There was six minutes left. I think we were down eight, three. And I'm down there. I'm like, buddy. And he's crying. He's crying. I'm like, buddy, oh, my God, that must have hurt. I can't Imagine how much that hurts. You got to get up. You got. You got to finish the game. And he got up. He gingerly got up through the tears. Next six minutes, he cried the whole time. But he finished the game. He finished the game. And I said, I go, don't go down again. These pads are trash. Stay up. Just stay up. Like the old he. Exactly. He went down again. I'm like, oh, no. But that one, the pad didn't move. So a lot of credit to Ryder for just grinding through a puck off the kneecap, which, listen, it was a cold rink. Randolph. Randolph rink, cold.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Should the Chiclets guys invest in getting, like, a new set of goalie gear for your kids team? It'd be funny.

[Biz Nasty]

We got to get out, buy some pads for Milton youth Hockey.

[Keith Yandle]

Hockey is striking till they get Newton hockey.

[Biz Nasty]

Great people, great youth hockey program. I think we have the most teams in the state of Massachusetts, like Milton youth hockey. Tons of kids play here. So I got to go get them some pads for that Mike team. I got to do it. I now saying it publicly, I have to go do it. I'm just going to tell them as I give them the pads, I love you.

[Peter Chiarelli]

That was.

[Keith Yandle]

That's as my jerseys. My jerseys hanging in. My jersey's hanging in that rink. I'll buy the pads.

[Biz Nasty]

Yes. As an alumni, Keith, actually, I was told a funny story about you other day. I've become close with Kevin, who runs the rink. Great dude. And there was. Yeah, Burch. He was. He said, like a couple years ago, you were still playing, you were skating, and there was a bunch of guys that were painting and redoing some of the locker room, I think the new locker room for Milton varsity team. And they were like, you were out there skating. You were snapping it off the crossbar, off the post, off the crossbar, off the post. And these guys are like, he's not very good. He's not. He's not scoring at all. He keeps missing the net or hitting the crossbar. And Kevin's like, no, dude, he's. That's what he's trying to do. He doesn't have a goalie, so he's working on his accuracy to hit this small little post or small little crossbar. And they went, oh, it was very enlightening for a couple of guys that were painters and construction workers that didn't know anything about hockey. So he also said, that guy would just come out with the stopwatch and bag himself for an hour. I said, yeah, that's the ends. He worked his balls Off. I taught him the way to do it. That's what. Because I love you, Keith. I love you.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I like the theme of this podcast. And we're going to be putting that 50, 50 money to use with you.

[Biz Nasty]

Getting the new pads for pads. Exactly.

[Peter Chiarelli]

What would you want any logo on it or what would you put on the pad?

[Keith Yandle]

Make a red and white. A nice red and white.

[Biz Nasty]

If you could get red and white. And then the M. Half of the M on the right pad and half of the M on the left pad. Now we're talking. Now we're talking right now. So, yeah, great weekend. I got two more sleeps and the wife's home. It'll be Christmas Eve. Kids are very excited. I've had two very close calls with Keith. That's our elf, you know, Elf on a Shelf. Talked about him many times. There's Snoop on the stoop. We've talked about that. Well, Bree said before she left, she's like, you can't forget to move Keith every night. Don't forget to move Keith twice. I've come down, like, with Ryder in the morning, and he goes to look, and I'm like, no. And so I go, oh, my God, I heard something down in the bathroom underneath the stairs. And then I run and get keithi and move him quick. So I've been disappointed in that. Haven't been caught. Keith has still been moving back and forth. He's shaking. He's telling everyone he loves him on the trip back to the North Pole every night. So I'm safe with that. But there's been close calls with me sneaking around. Like today, I had a towel on. I had to shove him under the towel as I walked by Ryder to get into the. I put him on the tree. Bang, he's up top. So tree looks great, Lights look great. Rink's awesome. The Yandel boys came over yesterday. So Brian came over with Brian, Colin and Liam, they stayed outside. Liam was outside for two hours with the kids. Colin and Brian went out there, were watching football. It was great. Two hours. Bunzo's son, my son. And Ryder and Wyt are out there. And the older boys, they're out there. And you know those young kids, when they're skating with the older kids, they just want to impress them. They just want to stay out there forever. So it was a wonderful Sunday, like one of those Sundays. You're sitting around, you're looking at your good friends, lifelong friend, you say, buddy, I hope you know I love you and please get a Netflix subscription. That's kind of how it went.

[Keith Yandle]

So they have it. They have it.

[Biz Nasty]

The hockey was awesome. We turned on, we took, we turned off football for the ABs and the, the Wild. You mentioned that Quick Biz Wild on this tear four zero with Quinn Hughes. And then the ABS came into town and it's like measuring. I don't think, I don't think so. You're a very good team, but we are the Aves.

[Peter Chiarelli]

There was a little bit of, like, animosity going into that one. At least the fans were talking about a lot. Somebody said now, I, I, I didn't look into this enough that the, the Aves broadcast team might have mentioned, like, oh, how he was. Walstead was over celebrating right now. Kind of felt that bizarre because we've complimented Colorado in the way that their broadcast team can light up a game, make it so exciting and the enthusiasm they bring. I would say easily top three broadcasts in the NHL. I don't think that the players on the ice and the way that they play heard it at the fact that every night's an electric factory. But I was surprised to see that that Wallstad's celebration really wasn't the celebration.

[Biz Nasty]

Only it was his quote after, in which he said they asked like, oh, you know, what does it mean to beat those guys? And he said, I guess it means we're better than them or we're a better team. So I believe that that's what was the animosity was the quote.

[Peter Chiarelli]

It wasn't simply the celebration. Okay, okay. So what do you make of that comment? I don't think that that's that inflammatory. No.

[Biz Nasty]

Hey, we're talking about it right now, and people were talking about it after that original game they had. So I love it. I love it. Any of that stuff I'm a big fan of now. Maybe when I was playing, if I was on a team, I'd be like, oh, or maybe I would have been the guy saying something that was considered stupid in, in hockey circles and not giving teams ammo. I love it. And who knows? He might have not even like, it's just like, I don't know, we just beat him. Maybe we're the better team. Like, it was probably a throwaway comment that he didn't think twice about after. But, you know, the dog and when he's barking and when he seems to feel a little disrespected now, by the way, the dog right now is on pace for 70 goals. Like, I think we're witnessing. But Biz, I'll say this, he's not the leading scorer in the NHL anymore because McDavid has over it's one point right now. But the dog is on a mission. The ABs are on a mission. The ABs are quite literally better than. Way better than everyone else. I think they're probably more fun to watch than everyone else. So if you're going to disrespect them in their mind, you better be ready to play when we come into town.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yeah. Also might be one of those things where they're running through the league so easily right now that you just. I mean we've talked about it before. I think it was Jordan where some games it would. He would make up stories in his head of like a fan saying something to where people are like I don't think he said anything, dude. And he would be like, nah, he said I was. I'm gonna fucking light them up now. And he's like, no, no. So kind of like almost like fabricating a little bit in order to. To. To get you going through the doldrums of the season when you're fucking walking through the rest of the league. Keep in mind though, Minnesota, they ended up playing less than 24 hours before that and having a nice big win against the Edmonton Oilers who have been red hot. So you got to go, go play a game less than 24 hours later in a back to back against a team who's just salivating and waiting to bend you over after your goalie won a game. And had some interesting comments to follow up. So I guess I love the storyline. I guess I was a little surprised that it was if it was just the pumpernickel, like that's what they're getting all fired up again about. But it's clear who the better team in the league is right now because it is the Colorado Avalanche in a league of their own and then everybody else. And they proved that on that Sunday. Drumming of the Minnesota Wild.

[Keith Yandle]

It's also too. It's. It's in division rivalries that we're getting out of this and you play in all these teams, they're going to see each other in playoffs most likely. So it, it adds to the fuel of the fire of just teams hating each other which at the end of the day we love to see that like the play. The players love to see it. It makes games like you said during the doldrums of the season, that makes it makes it a little easier to get up for. Right. So I fucking love it. Wallstead also too. It's. He's not American. He's not Canadian. It could get lost in translation. What he said. He probably didn't mean it like we're a better team. Like he has eyes. He knows that Colorado is the, the class of the league right now. So at the end of the day, it's a fun, fun, you know, little battle that we got going and it's going to last till playoffs.

[Peter Chiarelli]

And you alluded to it. Yan's like that, that division, top three teams in the NHL are in one division. Talk about an absolute gauntlet right now. You got, you got abs at the top, Dallas to follow, and then Minnie right behind. So this kind of brings up a larger discussion and now that Minnesota is must watch tv. I was talking with G and I mentioned it via text with you guys and I don't know if it's something that the players would want but, and I know that in this next cba it got dropped down a year. So now if you're on a team on, currently you're able to resign for seven years. Whereas if you go to, to another team as a free agent now it's six years where it was after this summer. After this summer, after this summer.

[Joe Bowen]

Right.

[Peter Chiarelli]

That's the new CBA in which they lock down so they bump down the, the, the length of deals by one year in each of the situations. Once again, eight years was the old rule for a team that you were already with.7 if you went to a new team now it's going to be seven for a team that you're with, six for a new team. I would even be okay moving forward, especially with the amount that the players are making and seeing moves like we just saw with Quinn Hughes. I would be okay for five years on a team that you're currently with and four for a team that you're now going to as a free agent. Some teams who have had dynasties and had had players along for a very long time, I'd say absolutely not. If we draft a guy, we want to make sure we lock that guy in for eight years, seven years now. But, and I understand that and maybe even some players would be like, absolutely not. We want the longevity and want to make sure we have the security of signing these, these long term deals now. I'm just saying for the top end guys who in my opinion, who should have the most say, like all the top end dogs who are making all the money and driving the traffic for the league. The, the McDavid's, the McKinnon, the, the, the, the Hughes, the, the McCars. I, I wouldn't mind that that five years because of where the tags would be and then there would be no real leaving money on the table. You're going for the top dollar. And I think from a, from a like ownership perspective, they would be thrilled with it because they don't have a problem paying the top dollar. I think what they have more of an issue with is, is most of times and in years, maybe six, especially seven and eight, how well are these guys playing up to that contract and how many times do you see where guys probably by a time of the end of those deals where the money keeps being brought up with what they're making based on what they're contributing, that they would probably want out of that team in that situation to begin with. Like, look at Darnell.

[Biz Nasty]

Remember the one go being like my contract sucks.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I would say at least 50% of these eight year deals or even seven teams are kind of teams and players are kind of like, oh God, I wish this would have ended where he was kind of like at his prime and then now he's s signing for a fair dollar amount and maybe even off to a better situation and not being ragged on like you think Darnell wants to be getting fucking ragged on where every time his name's brought up in Edmonton that all they can mention is is that that tag and that number. So.

[Biz Nasty]

Well, that's one. But that's one where it goes against the opposite would be like, well, I made whatever it is, 77 million, so I know what you're.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Okay, so. But I would also like to ask. I mean he's in a different situation because he's on a great team and he's probably loving life and the fact that they're going to the finals. But in most cases, like that's the last thing that the guy wants to constantly hear over the course of that length of. Of deal. And I would imagine that he would be okay. How many guys would be okay with making a million, maybe a million and a half less on the same term, if not a little bit longer now that he's gotten a new deal. And that's not being brought up in every single discussion. And the main reason why I bring this up is it makes the league so much more interesting where you're going to see more deals like we saw with Quinn Hughes, where you're getting a guy who's in his prime, who's. Who ends up getting to move over and you're making a good team into now a great competitive team. Where I want, I want the top 16 teams to be flat out the best teams in the league where the top or the bottom 10, I don't give a fuck if they have one superstar going into the back half of the season and into playoffs. Like I genuinely don't care because they're going to be able to reload their organization quicker with the fact that when it's their turn to have all these guys they can sign them to the four or five year big year deals and then eventually move on. Do you kind of, do you get what I'm saying? I want to see more deals like the Quinn Hughes deals to make more super teams because the hockey's way better. I want to watch more ABS verse versus Edmonton or more ABS versus Minnesota's than watch any other shittier teams go at the good teams or even going shitty teams on shitty teams. Some of this hockey, man, it's pretty, pretty not it's not good to watch.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah the no watch list teams are, it's growing. It's growing. And that those games when they're on it's like all right, I'm going to probably click over to Netflix here and maybe find a new show. I, I Keith, I'll say the best players I actually think like what Matthews did, I think it's a no brainer to sign four or five years.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah.

[Biz Nasty]

And hit it again. And hit it again. And your hit is big each year your number's so big you're, you're making so much money in the 4 or 5 year deal anyways that it's not like. But then with the eight year deal and now it's seven like a guy like Trent Frederick, you know, gets 24 million bucks over eight years now hasn't worked out great for him so far in Edmonton, but it's a guy he's like thank God I got that eight year deal. I made 24 million.

[Peter Chiarelli]

That's why I said some of the players would be like oh, I just want the security. But in the same breath I was more mentioning it for the top guys where they won't feel as, they won't feel as pressured to give a hometown discount because it's such a shorter amount of time where like now a team isn't necessary. If the Trent Frederick and the way that he's been playing continues through over the course of his entire contract woke Buddy years three through eight, man like that's going to be hell for, for.

[Biz Nasty]

Not only or you're in the minors.

[Peter Chiarelli]

It's just very negative. Where but that five year term to me feels like A very good place where you won't, it won't be dragging out and the media won't be getting on him, the fans won't be getting on him. And once again like if he's still getting a five year deal at two, two and a half per year, this guy won't be starving. He ain't going full Odell Beckham Jr. On that money.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, well, it's, I mean I would hate to take it away just because of what you said. The guys that have earned that money and signed those big deals that aren't the superstars of the league, like, like you said, we'll use Trent Frederick for an example this whole time, but he wouldn't. If he signed a two or three year deal, he might be out of the league in two years. You know what I mean? Or somebody else, not him. But like these big guys take your advice and then just sign those deals but keep that, keep the, you know.

[Biz Nasty]

Ability for the other guys.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, keep that ability for the guys to, you know, secure a bag. Whether it's a, you know, seven year deal worth three million, that's still, that's life changing money for those guys where the big boys like Matthews has done and Connor just did sign the three year, four year deal. If you think that your team isn't going to be, you know, putting out the product that you want. But also if guys are happy, they're like, you tell me Barkov wouldn't want to sign another eight year or seven year deal next year or whenever he can. Like if you're happy somewhere then why not be able to have it? But I do agree with you that the big dog shouldn't be signing the long term deals just to, you know, shit does go wrong.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Well, it tests, it tests loyalty. It creates way more dialogue is like, oh, like I don't know where the direction of this organization, petting, you know, is he going to resign? And then going back to why we were talking about Minnesota and Quinn Hughes, like, I want to see more top end guys move to like a super team to just watch better people.

[Keith Yandle]

Like the parody of the league.

[Biz Nasty]

That's the.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I know, but the parents and I've been beating that drum and I agree, I do enjoy that there's a lot of teams engaged and involved in it. But once you get closer to the deadline, you're going to see more movement from these big names where it's going to make, you know, above average teams great or great teams, super teams, where once again, when is everybody engaged and dialed in to watch hockey, NHL playoff time.

[Biz Nasty]

Well also what you, what you have, or you might have said it earlier, but if all these guys, if the max deal was five years, ok that means more and more that the money's going to go up because a superstar's five year deal ends, they're pushing it and he gets 16 a year. I mean Kaprisov's on like his own planet right now and then all of a sudden two years later, oh it's 17, then it's 19. So it actually owners might dislike it based on the fact that like the price is still going to keep going up quicker than it has been.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I'd be curious to. Well, I mean Minnesota being a prime example. I don't think they would mind it because look how much money they ended up spending in buyouts for Paris and Suter. Like that's that, that's where, that's the, the shit side of it for the owners. Where I would, I would kind of prefer that I'd rather pay guys who are producing on the ice in real time rather than be dishing out money once. Okay, well we had to give them eight years because they had the leverage. But they're not even playing up to what they were doing before. So I think it would just make, make everything overall more exciting. More high end trades, more super teams. Yes. The parody would still be there up until a certain point where okay, this guy's got either a year left or he's coming to the end of his deal where let's just move. Guys are coming up more frequently. Let's move them, let's move them, let's move them. I don't know that's. I just want to watch better hockey.

[Keith Yandle]

I think it'll also, it'll shorten guys careers like those, you know, the third, fourth line, the fifth 6D man, like there'll be so much more. They'll be able to interchange them and bring in younger guys as opposed to when they are on a long term contract. They have to stick around.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah, I want, I wonder what players would rather. I mean I'm guessing they'd probably stick because it's such a big union. Right. That we like having as much security. But biz. Very interesting.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Well keep in mind too though is. Is with that advancement it's not. We talk about the low end. The guys like me. Right. Like I, I only played five years. Well, what if I could have signed a, a long term but the league minimum would then go up. Like at that point maybe league minimum. I mean when I started it was, I think it was 400 grand, maybe four and a quarter. So now all I think nowadays it's up to 900, maybe nine and a half. So at that point, the owners, what they would be given back is more bumping up the amount that the players are getting in the shorter amount of time. And also the bottom ed would actually go up. So the league men hopefully by then would be, you know, a million and a half at that point. So I get what you guys are saying to protect those types of guys, but it always goes back to the guys who are driving the league. What, what do they want? What are the, what are the top 50 players want as far as getting their money quicker, not feeling obligated to take these hometown discounts because as good as Kirill's been and how much he deserves every cent that he signed for, I think Minnesota fans and some people were hoping that he was going to take a little bit of a discount. If it's a five year deal, there's no way these guys are taking discounts.

[Keith Yandle]

But at the end, at the end of the day, those big dogs, they can do whatever they want. If they wanted to sign a one year deal every year they're going to have a job. I'm more worried about the middle of the pack guys.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Okay, fair enough.

[Biz Nasty]

And when you talk about the guys who are, who are basically running the league or the faces that people come and watch for and enjoy watching, 20 years now it's been Sid and and what Sid did I I passing. Mario is the all time leading scorer for the Pittsburgh Paints. I think we talked about it last episode. Mario 1723 points in 915 games. Sid is now at 1724. He passed Mario. Now granted a lot more games. 1387. It kind of brings up a great discussion of like who is the greatest Penguin of all time. I'm biased. Well, I was lucky enough to play play with both of them. I got I think 12 games with Mario that last year he played 26 games, still had 22 points and then his heart issue forced him to retirement. But Sid's quote after the game was like so interesting to me because he said on the fans reacting to his historic moments tonight he said it's really special. You're trying to stay in the game but also try to enjoy the moment too. It's hard to balance that sometimes, especially as you get older, you tend to look at things a bit differently. Which I was like, oh like. And no question for him now, like I imagine his brain must have just been kind of running wild. Like, I just passed Mario. Like, I have the most points in the history of this organization that had two of the greatest players that's ever played play here in Mario and Jagger. But I was wondering, Keith or Biz? Keith, why don't you take it first? Like, who is the greatest penguin I.

[Keith Yandle]

Always kind of base it on? Like, even when talking about old school guys like the Barbie oars of the world, like, I didn't. I wasn't able to watch them as much. Mario you saw a little bit more of. But just being in the league when Sid was in there for what he did for the league on and off the ice, like the. I had the utmost respect for Sid and just the longevity. Like the, the. The fact that he's been touted this the savior since he was what, 12, 13 years old. Like, in the fact that he's lived up to it. Like how many athletes, like I was trying to think like him and LeBron, who have had this tag of being, you know, superstar franchise league player, face of the league players since they were at a young age, had lived up to it. Like to have that pressure and to bring it every single year and to not have any blemishes off the ice, like, it's truly amazing to me of what he's done. Consummate pro. Like, you think of the little things. Like I remember in his first couple years, people would talk about he's always not great on face offs. Like, he's got a. Like he was 40, he was in the 40% and he's been over 50% every other, I think four times in his career he hasn't been over 50%. So just, you know, he's working on stuff in the summertime, getting better. So for me, it's got to be Sid. Just because I saw it all, I was able to enjoy, able to play against them. So just the fact. And then the fact that you're passing Mario, a guy that he looked up to, I think he lived with him, right? With like, yeah, it's like.

[Biz Nasty]

And the Mario, when he got drafted, he's in the suit, he's standing behind. It's like, it's just the fact it worked out like this last episode. I said like in Penguins fans wildest dreams, they wouldn't have thought that he would have broken that record.

[Keith Yandle]

And it's like the biz is. Is the NHL in the. In a simulation. Like he does it against the team that he grew up rooting for, against the Canadians. And he did it in his. What was it, 1,700 or 1,387th game. So it's, it's got his little touch on, you know what I mean? It's crazy. So. But you see his parents in the stands and everything, like they've been there the whole ride. It's amazing.

[Peter Chiarelli]

You. You literally just took the words out of my mouth. It was really cool seeing his father getting emotional, who's been a massive part of his career and who also, I believe, grew up a massive Habs fan. So that's why everybody keeps making that connection as to where he's going to finish. But I think he's going to be a forever Penguin at this point now, boys, and he's just going to keep going. I agree with you, Whit. I think he's going to end up hitting that 2000 point mark. As far as it seems away right now, I think he's still playing in another Olympics. And to answer your question, I'm going to say Mario because I think Mario was basically like just as, as like individually gifted as Wayne Gretzky, maybe slightly below. But of course with, with everything that he went through health wise and injury wise with his back, he just didn't have the longevity. But when you talk about sheer domination through a. A period of time, he was like, he was a God. He was a God amongst, amongst boys. And you know, I think thankfully for that organization, he was also at the time willing to. To forego money on the spot to even keep that organization. A thing like that team shouldn't even be in Pittsburgh. And for him to, to. To. To like basically. What's the word I'm looking for when you don't take it right away, the.

[Biz Nasty]

Money you, you backload or oh, we're such dummies, we're done. I know, exactly.

[Peter Chiarelli]

It's a big word.

[Biz Nasty]

Probably defer.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Defer.

[Joe Bowen]

Yeah.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Thank you so much. He deferred 30 million bucks of, of contract money at the time when he's basically going through the, the. Probably the, the back half of his career not knowing what was going to go on, where the state of the organization was going to go. Not even the state of the league at that point. So there were so many things that, that factor into why I think that he's for sure the Penguins goat. But like you said, with the fact that when he was drafted and he was there behind him in that picture, to have imagined that he would be passing him in points is unimaginable. And he kind of set the, you know, he set the foundation for Sid to go on and have success and also got to live with them. And having a mentor like that, to start out your career in order to, to catapult it to what he was able to become. I have to, I have to give the nod to, to Mario Lemieux.

[Keith Yandle]

Wait, there are guys that say Mario was better than Wayne. No, like, during that era, like, there. I think Jagger, when he was asked, I think he said, Mario is the greatest ever. So, like, yeah, he did that. 917 games. Was it like, that is insane.

[Biz Nasty]

15, 9, 15. And so, I mean, I, I, for me, Mario was probably, like, more skilled. He was bigger. And like, just like his hand, like, this sounds insane. We're talking about Sidney Crosby, but it's more like the three Cups, the two Cups, and, and because of that, like, and the leading scorer, it's like Crosby's the greatest penguin of all time. Like, yeah, maybe if you look at, like, games, Lemieux dominated. Like, Sid never did that, even though he had six point games and all these records and all these incredible accomplishments. Like, Mario probably at times was more dominant, considering we have people saying he was the best of all time. But it's that extra cup, and it's wild that, like, Crosby came there after Lemieux and McDavid's there after Gretzky was in Edmonton in the simulation business talking about. And the other thing about talking about Troy Crosby, great guy. When Sid was 6 or 7 or 9 years old, and he's obsessed and he's shooting pucks into the dryer, and even then, like, his wildest imagination wasn't this. It couldn't have been. It couldn't have been because he, you know, he was a hockey fan. I believe he was drafted. Right? It's like, all right, like, yeah, I think this kid's very special. Something's off. I mean, he's that good. He's that obsessed. But you couldn't imagine this. There's no way he could. So it's just.

[Peter Chiarelli]

And that's why, Whit, I'm okay with anybody who, who has watched over the last 20 years saying Sidney Crosby. Because the longevity component isn't just luck. It has to do with the fact that for all these years, Sid's doing five, six days a week of training. The minute the season ends, he takes a few weeks to hit the reset, and he's right back to work. I'm always looking to advance, so. And especially doing it, you know, over the last 10 or 10, 15 years, when the game has accelerated to the level that it's at where there's nowhere. No, more like backup shitty goalies. Like, the standard compared to what it used to be is so much better. The overall team structure and defenses. Like, these guys don't have summer jobs. They are full time, full fledged athletes. Like, you laugh, but back then, I think that, you know, some of the guys that Lemieux was dancing around.

[Biz Nasty]

Not when Lemieux.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I bet you. I bet you there was a few guys when Lemieux started who probably had summer jobs. I bet he's probably like, yeah, 84 in.

[Biz Nasty]

84. You think?

[Peter Chiarelli]

But I don't think we gotta find out. I don't think the money was really there until Wayne ended up moving on to. To.

[Keith Yandle]

To.

[Peter Chiarelli]

What do you call it? To la. Like, I think that. I think that Gretzky, when he was fucking getting 200 points, was making maybe a million dollars, which I think lessened, maybe even less so. I just think it's remarkable what Sid's done. And I know we got into that debate and it shouldn't take away from anything in the fact that he is the standard. I will debate you till the end of earth that by the time it's all said and done, he has to be on the Mount Rushmore.

[Keith Yandle]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Bowen]

He has to be.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I don't know who you want to take off. That's a discussion that would be very difficult. I would love to ask Wayne and maybe even Mario what their opinions on that are. But you can't deny the fact that. That Sid should be on the top four of all time.

[Keith Yandle]

And. And you know what my favorite thing is? And it's like Whit said to start off this show, just spreading the love. Mario would never say he's the best player. He would say Sid is. And Sid would never say he's the best player. So it's just the classiness of hockey players in general, but especially the big dogs that. The respect that they have for the guys that paved the way, like we all do. It. It. It's truly remarkable what a class act he is.

[Biz Nasty]

No doubt he's.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Let me see here, Owen1 and sandbaggers, but like an unbelievable guy.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, but if Mario could be 0 and 1 too, actually. No, he's nasty.

[Biz Nasty]

He's 32 points away from. From passing Iserman. Okay, and then we got Marcel Dion next. Then he's got Marcel Dion about 44 points. Do you know who would be after that? I'll give you Gretzky, Jagr, Messier, Howe. Do you know who's Fifth without looking.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yariel.

[Keith Yandle]

Kurt.

[Biz Nasty]

No, no, no. Wasn't a leaf.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Oh, Francis.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah, Francis. Was Francis a leaf at one point? I know he's a Hurricane. I don't.

[Keith Yandle]

Why do I. I wasn't thinking him. I was thinking Sittler.

[Biz Nasty]

No. Ron Francis, fifth all time.

[Peter Chiarelli]

What a poll by busy boy here.

[Biz Nasty]

I know. And he was a leaf his last season. His last season in the league. He was on Carolina was traded at the deadline to the Leafs. 10 points in his last 12 regular season games.

[Keith Yandle]

They booed him out of town.

[Biz Nasty]

But congrats to Sid. Incredible, incredible stuff. Just to see OV do the goals last year and Sid, boys, I get.

[Peter Chiarelli]

To tell my kids, if I ever eventually have them that I played on a line with Crosby.

[Biz Nasty]

I know that's fucked.

[Keith Yandle]

And I've never heard you say that either, so it's like you'll be breaking that news to them.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Did you see our Corsi rating? If I would have played with Sid my whole career, I would have. I think I would have hit the 500 point mark.

[Biz Nasty]

Yep. I know.

[Keith Yandle]

They just had Corsi back then. They would have kept you around longer.

[Biz Nasty]

I mean, Mario Lemieux, I sent him on a breakaway and he tapped me on the shin pads. Nice pass, kid. Like, did he score?

[Keith Yandle]

Did he score?

[Joe Bowen]

No.

[Biz Nasty]

Oh, no.

[Keith Yandle]

Did you have any points with. With Mario, like, assisted on him?

[Peter Chiarelli]

I. I haven't.

[Biz Nasty]

I don't know. I wonder.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I think I made Mario retire when I rounded the net and missed him by 15ft. And he's. He's like, I can't do this.

[Biz Nasty]

He's like, this guy's. Oh, this guy might must have a summer job, though.

[Keith Yandle]

He must.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Here's. Here's why. I also put Mario ahead of him and I talked about the deferred money. He turned that deferred 30 million into 280 sheets.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah, that was a great move in the end. I mean, that worked out pretty well for him. Guys, I want to take a moment and talk about Cook Unity. The holidays are here, which means it's time for comfort, joy, and really good food. Impress your relatives, even the judgy ones, with gourmet holiday meals from Cook Unity. Let the chefs take healthy meal prep off your plate with festive yet nutritious dishes. Festive holiday favorites are available for a limited time and only in select Cook Unity markets. Like old fashioned glazed holiday ham. The ultimate holiday turkey dinner. Maple whipped sweet potatoes. And their candid yam camp. 3, 2, 1. And their candied yam cake. Oh, my God. Candied yam cake. Oh, it gets me going. Cooking quality meals take time, but it doesn't have to be your time. No cleanup or meal planning. Meals are delivered fully cooked. Just heat up in as little as five minutes. Enjoy culinary masterpieces for way less than restaurants or takeout. And climbing grocery store prices. CookUnity sent us a couple meals. They're unreal. And the best part is how easy and quick it is to cook these things up. They're already fully cooked. Just warm them up and you're eating there. It's home cooking, but better because it takes way less time and the cleanup is non existent. Taste, comfort and craftsmanship in every bite. From the award winning chefs behind Cook unity. Go to cookunity.com chiclets or enter code chiclets before checkout to get 50% off your first order that's sliced the price in half with your first order using code chicklets. 50% off your first order by using code chiclets or going to cookunity.com chicklet There was a couple trades. Couple trades. Right before the holiday roster freeze, Philip Deneau, no longer a member of the Los Angeles Kings, he's now with the Montreal Canadiens. I wasn't surprised considering there was rumblings everywhere that he wanted to be traded. I was surprised that LA didn't get a player in return. And LA's in kind of a weird spot. Like, you know, it's Kopitar's last year and Doughty's getting older. Like odd to lose a guy that while not having a great season so far, he's been a, he's been a money player for the King since he signed there. Like if you look at that deal, when he signed it, I would say, if you're a Kings fan, tell me if I'm wrong. Like, very happy with the signing. It worked out well. Now they just ran into a wagon four years in a row in the first round. But Deno was always one of the top players for LA in all those series. He's a great defensive center. The offense has just gone dry. But I was, I was shocked. It was a second round pick in return and I was like, geez, like la, la's got, they got to go do something based on they just lost one of their centermen who's obviously playing down in the lineup than where he had years prior, but nothing in return.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yeah, and they've been getting like little offense from that, that center ice. I think that Byfield, he had a period of time there in the season where it's like, okay, he's taken that next step, but I feel like he's. He's regressed from that. I want to say at the time we had him on the TNT broadcast between Kopitar by Field and Deno, they had like 12 goals, maybe even less than that. And I think that at that time Byfield had like four or five. So I agree with you. It very weird. The only thing that would make sense is, is yeah, G's popping up right now. He's still asked for only four goals on the year.

[Keith Yandle]

He asked for the trade. Right. So does that kind of handcuff LA like saying like, hey, this guy wants out. Who knows what's going on behind the scenes?

[Peter Chiarelli]

Well, handcuff in a sense, you don't have to move off of them. And I'm sure there's a lot of teams that could. I mean, think of how many teams that need centerman. I mean, like look at, like look at mini. Right now I feel like they need a first line center in order to put themselves over the edge. I wouldn't put him there, but he would definitely free you up in a sense if you have a reliable guy who you could just sick on another team's top guy. I mean, it was a few years ago now, but when we interviewed Nathan McKinnon, we said, who are some of the hardest centermen that you face on a yearly basis? And he put Danault at the top of the list the way that he's a wet blanket. So the, the offense when he first got to LA, and I want to say it was. Todd McClellan was the head coach. He popped off for 24 goals that first year there. So I don't think that that's gone. I just think it was regressed ice time. He's not seeing eye to eye with Hiller and it was time for him to move on. And in a situation where he gets to go back to Montreal, a place that he's comfortable with, I'm sure he's going to see very much eye to eye with Martin St. Louis and I'm sure that St. Louis is going to instill that confidence that he needs back in his game in order to start producing. So I think that's a huge pickup, especially for a young roster in Montreal. And it seems like you say we're kind of a gift that you don't have to send a guy back. So very interested to see what LA does here now. This is a top tier landing spot for, for free agents going, getting to go to la. You're you're playing with an awesome organization, but you're out of the media noise. I don't know, man. Does that feel like a place that, like, maybe Austin Matthews would want ahead first line center?

[Biz Nasty]

I mean, that, that, that situation we can get into in a little bit is disgusting right now.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I'm not.

[Biz Nasty]

I don't want to say I gave it 99 over.99 and a half points for the Leaf was my bet of the year. I got people at the Wallston Christmas party coming up. Me? What the hell are you talking about? I always heard you don't know anything. Now my wallet knows that you don't know anything because I pounded that over 99 and a half points. Leafs regular season. Bet you gave out to your loyal Chiclets listeners. Well, most of them hate you now. I hate you too. I said I love you though. I love you. What did you bet on it? I'll give you the cash right now. I. In terms of LA Byfield, I thought he was gonna pop off this year. I had no idea. 19 points in 33 games. G's also writing it supposedly ended pretty messy. What does that mean?

[Peter Chiarelli]

No, with Dano, it was just like he, he was fed up. He wasn't getting the ice time he thought he deserved. He thought that that was a reason why his offense had regressed. We had the conversation of if you take two minutes away from a, from a, a centerman like that, it could mean the world of difference to how much he's getting his touches in. Yeah. What situations you're putting him in. If he's only playing penalty kill and just firing the thing down the ice and only in a shutdown role. So he's going to be a lot happier in Montreal. Speaks the language and a place that he's familiar with. So.

[Keith Yandle]

And a great deal for Montreal just because, I mean they've got new hooks out, Docs out and Evans are all out. So those are sentiment. Like you need centerman if you plan on making the playoffs, which they do this year.

[Biz Nasty]

They want to.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, they want to. Right. You need to have sentiment. You have to have guys that can go up and down your lineup. I think Deno is one of those guys. Like if he's on your third, if he's your third line center, like we say every year, if he's a third line center, they're a cup contending team. Like they're a team that can make a run in the playoffs, play well. So I, I think for to Montreal to go out and do that deal and get it done and not have to give up any roster players is a. Is a great move by them.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I think this reeks of. Of LA already having something lined up and something in the. Something something there as far. What do they have in cap space? G Can you pull that up? Because you. When you were able to get that much money off the books throughout the course of a season, that's a. That's a big tool you can use to attract somebody. So I. I want to say the no was in the. In the 6 million range.

[Biz Nasty]

They got 9.4 million in cap space currently.

[Peter Chiarelli]

That's a lot boys. That's a lot for a team that's top three individuals.

[Biz Nasty]

Those guys are out injured though. Or is that with everyone healthy? I don't know if like maybe what he's looking at like the cap would be off because you're on like.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I know but I don't think that they're dealing with much injury right now. Right.

[Biz Nasty]

Well. Yeah. Doc, new hook.

[Peter Chiarelli]

No, he's saying no, I'm talking about LA's got.

[Biz Nasty]

Oh yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah. Sorry sorry. I was just. I was actually just looking at the. The stats from. Because I wanted to bring up Montreal, that game that they lost where Crosby broke the record Sunday against the Habs. I think Montreal after Edmonton or right with Edmonton is the most fun to watch play overtime and I think Lane Hudson might be the most entertaining player in overtime. I don't know if you saw the movie pulled on Carlson. It he is. They put out Caulfield, Suzuki and Hudson and then I think the next group is Matheson, Slef Kofsky. I don't remember who else but that Caulfield Hudson thing, it's. It's unreal. It's unreal. And Hudson is just flying. He's like born to play three on three hockey in the offensive zone and he's defenseman. So Pit Pitt ended up finally ending the losing streak against them in the. In the shootout. But incredible entertaining overtime. I love those. Over some of the overtimes you get they're leaving the zone. One team gets possession off the face off and they pretty much hold onto it the entire time. They throw it back to the goalie. That one was an example of just like. What do you call it? Electric factory business.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Well, since. Since we're on the topic of Montreal too and I wanted to talk about that Atlantic Division, a little bit of a bizarre thing. We're going to get into Detroit too. But the top two leaders of the division which go Detroit and then Montreal. Detroit is a minus 3 goal differential, and then Montreal is a minus 4 gold deferential, at least when I looked yesterday. So pretty bizarre that two and. And in third place in the Atlantic is Tampa Bay. And when I looked, they were plus 19 gold differential.

[Biz Nasty]

So, yeah, that weird.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Just, I guess scoring and. And executing at the right time. And then when they're losing games, they're getting fucking blown out. So if you want to move on to Detroit and talk about how they keep silently getting it done, I feel like we haven't talked about them much. And the fact that you're getting DM and peppered with Marit's cider for heart.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah. Not just Norris for heart. I think we're getting a little out over our skis with Hart talk. Hey, you want to talk Norris Trophy right now? Maybe some people who aren't Wings fans, who aren't hearing a lot or seeing a lot of them. You're missing what's turning into a player that we haven't seen in quite some time. And I was thinking about it. It's like, all right, we had Duncan Keith, we had Drew Doughty, we have Makar, we have Quinn Hughes. We had all these amazing defensemen. We haven't had a big mean shutdown while also being offensive superstar defenseman. I mean, I think of Pronger. Tell me somebody else. And Maurit Cider is turning into that guy Weber.

[Keith Yandle]

Weber, yeah.

[Biz Nasty]

Yep, yep. Weber. I'll give him that. And. And I. I think that Cider might even be better passing than Weber.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yeah.

[Keith Yandle]

Weber had the bomb. Weber.

[Biz Nasty]

Weber had the bomb. And Cider has a bomb, but not the Weber bomb. Here comes the Weber bomb. Guy behind the net torturing me as I wasn't on the ice for the pk. Here comes the Weber bump. I like it.

[Joe Bowen]

I love it.

[Biz Nasty]

I want some more of it. But, yeah, Weber's a great. Weber's a great call because he was also first PK Mean, as in front of the net through enormous hits. And Maurit Cider, Wings fans are seeing what they hoped when they drafted him. Very high pick. People didn't know much, and you're now, like, they knew what they were doing picking this guy. He's a horse. He plays 25, 26 minutes. He's mean as he has a canon. He got the OT winner Sunday or Saturday. He's got the cell. He's got. He get the cell. He's awesome.

[Peter Chiarelli]

He got that year. Oh, yeah, they'll listen to the year there.

[Biz Nasty]

We haven't seen that from Austin. Oh, Austin did it to his home crowd that was booing the team. Yeah, he's just doing it like, tell me how much you love me. I am a big, dominant defenseman. I do cross check people in front of the net and I make perfect brace breakout passes and I run the pp. And now you're seeing a guy who's just coming into his own, what a contract very similar deal to Jack Hughes that like eight years times like the eight area where you're like, oh my God, like, wait, there's six more years, seven more years on this contract of this guy making that number. And he's only going to get better. He's only going to get more dominant. And now I think he's a main reason Detroit sitting where they're at. He's probably their team mvp. This not probably. He is their team mvp. And all the Red Wings fans who were telling me, Moritz Cider, now you guys saying for the heart. I'm not there yet, but for, for Norris. 100%. 100%.

[Peter Chiarelli]

It's just, you can't. You can't win Norris's when. When Cale McCarr is healthy and playing in the league. And I would even say the same for Quinn Hughes. But going back to Mauritz, like, obviously when we talk about Shea Weber, we don't think he's as tough as Shea Weber and maybe as intimidating, maybe a more modernized version. He did go against Castellik and try to handle his own business not too long ago against the Bruins. But you mentioned we had OT winner, 25 points in 36 games so far this season. Some of the best defensive analytics in the game right now, where there's nowhere to hide for him. He's talking guy and he's playing against.

[Keith Yandle]

What's that, 27 points.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Oh, 27. Okay. I was one.

[Biz Nasty]

He's got 21 points in his last 21 games.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Okay. Oh, sorry. That was. That was. Including 21. He's got 21 in his last 21. Or at least as of the other day when he scored the OT winner. That's what I'm looking at. And like I said, though, just some of the best defensive analytics in the game. And he can't. You can't escape. He's going against top lines night in, night out, every situation. So a tip of the cap. I would have him. I would have it go. He's probably right below Warrenski for me.

[Joe Bowen]

Right?

[Peter Chiarelli]

Like, it would go Kale, Quinn, Warrensky, maybe. Warrensky and Quinn are tied at two and then Maurice at this point and.

[Biz Nasty]

Heskin is there, that's the top five right now we're going with. I like that.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I mean, the year he's having, year five for. For Maurice, he's finally coming into his own. And I would say that it goes from forward, can adapt the quickest defenseman and then goaltending. I feel like year five is right around what you're starting to see, guys. Buddha, I want to say it took Headman around that amount of time, too, maybe even a little bit longer. So a little bit of optimism maybe for. For Buffalo Sabers fans and what they're seeing from Owen Power, maybe it's just one more year and then he's at that threshold. So we'll see.

[Keith Yandle]

Still only 24 years old. And then Whit, you mentioned it a little bit. Like, when he was drafted, he wasn't the big name. Right? Like, people were kind of like, really? But is there any organization that you would trust more when making a draft pick or your fan base shouldn't, you know, question it?

[Biz Nasty]

What?

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, question and be like, what are we doing here? Like, if they're saying let's take mo Cider when they did, it's been a great pick. He, like you said, he's still only 24 years old. This kid is going to be a monster for the next 15 years. And he's fun to watch. And hockey's back in D town.

[Biz Nasty]

I'm looking at the draft right now. He went sixth. I think Jack Hughes obviously stays first overall. Then it's. Then it's Cider. He went. He went sixth. It was Capo, Kako Kirby, Doc Bowen, Byram, Alex Turcotte, and then Maurice Cider. I mean, he's definitely going second there, right? And then I think third would be boldy. Who went 12th, who's just totally reached. Totally reached the level Billy Garon talked about just going to be. If not, I mean, sounds crazy. If not the best going into the Olympics. I mean, that's a top three forward for team. For Team usa. So, yeah, Detroit hit a home run with him. Very happy for those fans.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Detroit. It's weird because, like their goaltending save percentage and what the goalies have been able to do, it's not great. Both guys below.900. I don't think Gibson had a win the entire month of November. So kind of bizarre to see how successful they've been yet have such bad goalie stats. But I think it goes back to the year that the brink it's having. He has 20 tucks right now well on pace to get over 40. Obviously Dylan Larkin and the confidence that he took from four nations last year, the way that he ended last season and that he's taken into this year. And then our boy Lucas Raymond, he's got 18 tucks as well. So the top end guys keeping their special teams very good and, and just, you know, that's a big reason as to why they're at the top of the division. So credit for them for not making, you know, any crazy moves, sticking to their guns and, and sticking with the familiarity to their roster.

[Keith Yandle]

You know, it'll, it'll be fun to watch cider in, in the Olympics, like playing against guys in his league. A lot of guys on his team aren't in the NHL. Like he'll be, he'll be showing the way of how you play like a North American style game. He'll be torturing guys in front of.

[Biz Nasty]

The net as much as you can in IIHF rules. But hey, I don't know what to expect from Germany, but you take a penalty against them, you got Leon, you got him and you got Stutzel, who's on fire right now. And Ottawa's on fire right now. Heads up for their power play, at least. I, I can't. That, yeah, that's a, that's a guy can't wait to see play like best on best. That's a good call right there. And Biz, you mentioned quickly, Buffalo, all that was needed and you put it out onto Twitter. Very good call. I just had to say 0.0. I wouldn't even give them the.001% chance of playoffs. And they give them. Now they've ripped off six in a row, five in a row since. Since Kevin Adams was let go. Kekaline comes in. Rasmus, Darlene, Goal of the year by a defenseman so far, maybe this season.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Walk the whole goddamn team.

[Biz Nasty]

Oh, walking the whole team. Mike Keith, did you ever do that in the NHL?

[Keith Yandle]

No.

[Joe Bowen]

God, no, I never.

[Peter Chiarelli]

You never went in 10?

[Keith Yandle]

Oh, yeah, I went end to end a few times, but not walking everybody. Maybe just beating one or two guys.

[Biz Nasty]

Wide speed, wide, speed, wide.

[Keith Yandle]

Remember in Edmonton I scored the OT winner, but it was against like, like, it was like Theo Peckham. I beat wide. Like, what are we doing?

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yeah. Yeah. Was that the one that Wit was bitching at you when you. When. Or was it the other way around?

[Biz Nasty]

No, he was bitching at me. Said I owed him one when he put one on my stick and I gave Hempski the breakaway. Ah, the good old years. I love you, Keith. I love you too. So Buffalo, now, they're still not in the playoffs right now, but they're fighting and they're grinding. And they took our words and their team, even on a heater. On Twitter, they went at you, Biz. They said full apology with tears. After you put out the meme of you looking away from the Leafs and looking at the Sabers walking down the street like, oh, I want to trade this guy and I like that girl right there. They want a full apology with tears. I, I, I will say sorry. I will also say that people have come at me a little. I've said, no, no, no, no, no. I'm happy like you. Yes, come at me. I said, 0.000% chance. But I, I love this. I've made it clear. I want Buffalo in the playoffs. I want Buffalo to have a good team. Can they continue? This is the question. Because I believe every year they've gone on little runs right, like this. Isn't that crazy? Where they've won six, seven, eight games in a row throughout this 14 year drought of no playoffs. Maybe now there's something more real here. They bring in Mark Berseman, right? The burger van comes in. So that, that's it. That was a, I, I saw that go across the wire. I was like, oh, okay. Yarmo, yeah, he's making moves here. But certainly when Biz mentioned, I'd love to have Darlene on the Maple Leafs, I think everyone would. I, I, Unless he says, I want out at the end of the year. They'd never trade him. He looks incredible. He's an amazing skater, an unreal player. Buffalo's back. G wanted to release the shirts again.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I don't think they gotta go.

[Keith Yandle]

That's when they go down. G, don't do it to the, they.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Don'T want the wagon shirts. But listen, they have three very winnable games in a row here. Until I want to say they play against like a Dallas or, or like a juggernaut. So if they go to nine in a row, I would not be shocked if they hit nine in a row. The Shirts are hitting the market like we were.

[Keith Yandle]

They got Ottawa, Boston, St. Louis, and then the Stars.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yeah, Ottawa. Ottawa has been on fire. The goaltending is starting to round out a little bit. It was atrocious there for a hot minute, but I think that those are three winnable games. And I don't know, man. Paige Thompson, in my opinion, like, sometimes, like, you know, last year, he didn't make it. He was probably one of the biggest snubs for Team usa. I would assume he's now going to be on that roster. Just the way that he competes, the size of him and you know, dragging this team into a playoff spot. He's got 18 tucks on the year and in some cases with their injuries, like he's playing with different line mates every night. So Tuck's been incredible. Not sure what they do with him now. If they all of a sudden go on a little RUP run before the deadline and they're within striking distance or even in a playoff situation. But that trade for Doan is definitely paid off and things are looking a lot, lot more impressive. And, and UKO Peka Lukonen, he's fucking starting around the corner too, boys. He got the belt the other night after that big save he made.

[Keith Yandle]

That save he made on was it Hughes passed it to Gritsuk. I think it was one of the best saves of the year. But talk about a team that doesn't want the break to come too right? Like you gotta. That's when shit can kind of humming.

[Biz Nasty]

Now Benson is money and he's missed games. He's back. He's a water bug. I remember we talked about like kind of couldn't believe he made it as an 18 year old right after the draft. Cause it was like, oh, it's Buffalo. Like just let the kid develop more.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Instead of he's a piece of shit to play against. He's in front of the, in front of the other team's net all the time. He's that guy where there's a little bit of lull in your game. He's going to drag you into it, maybe give a guy a little stick to the nuts. He's got every team on the other bench fucking Josh and Adam. He doesn't care. He's always got scars on his face from getting the stinky mitt or whatever. Whatever nonsense he's stirring up. So you need guys like that who are going to compete and, and also for as small as he is, like pretty good guy along the wall and below the, below the offensive blue line or offensive goal line. Excuse me. So they got some good. I know I said at one point maybe get rid of, get rid of some of these guys and get good returns. But I'm sticking to my guns. They should keep them.

[Biz Nasty]

All right. Well, Buffalo, you're back. Congrats. Keep it rolling here. Keep it rolling. Keep with the positivity, Buffalo. You deserve it. We love you more than anyone. 14 frigging years? Are you kidding me? The other trade we didn't mention before the freeze was Mason Marchmont goes to Columbus. I like him a lot. I like his game. He's big, he's strong. I don't think Dallas ever wanted to get rid of him. Right. He's an awesome player. I'm just so confused. And, you know, good for Columbus. They go out and they grab him. It's just. What a weird year for Columbus so far. Like, I. I was expecting more. I mean, I talked about them with Pasha kind of going against them and the Devils thinking that this would be a year everyone took another big step and it just hasn't been there. Warrensky had hilarious quotes after, I think, the most recent loss. And. And thank God he's okay, at least for Team usa. He had to get, like, pushed off the ice after Troy Terry hit him in the foot. But it came out that nothing's broken. He's just day to day. But it looked really bad and he said, like, we're a good team. We just keep losing, so maybe we're not a good team. Like, I'm pretty sure that was the exact quote, which is, like, very honest. You're just sitting there like, we're very good, but we're not winning, so maybe we're not good. And I don't know what's happened there. I don't know if Mason Marchman could be somebody. I think he scored in his first game.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, he did.

[Biz Nasty]

But that. That was a guy that. That a lot of teams, I bet you wanted a piece of. And I guess there's still the option for Columbus if. If they're not in the playoffs, that they could. They could move him at the deadline and. And get, you know, something back in return. But. Did you like the move, Keith?

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, I thought. I like. Just simply for what you said, like, he can come over there. Kind of. Things haven't gone his way in Seattle, so it's like, all right, let's get him a friend.

[Biz Nasty]

No, watch number one.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, they're. They're number one. I think they've lost nine of the last ten or something like that. But I think it's a good move by then for exactly what you said, where if he does, he can pop off. He can. He's a streaky player. If he gets, you know, gets hot here for a month or two before the trade deadline and then you can trade him off to a contending team, get something back, whether it's draft picks or players. So I like it for that reason. I don't think it's one of those deals that's going to, you know, change your franchise. It's going to make them better for a little bit. But he's also one of those guys, too. Maybe in their locker room, they needed to, you know, bring in a guy that brings guys into the fight. Like, we always talk about, like, marches a guy, I played with him in Florida where he had. He had gotten released by Toronto. I think it was like, he's had to earn everything in his career. So he's not one of those guys that's like, oh, yeah, I got paid. I'm going to be fine. Like, he. He's still got a chip on his shoulder, still wants to prove himself, so maybe they needed a guy like that in their locker room that can kind of get everyone going a little bit. But do I think he, like, do I even think he's going to finish the year there? No, I think what you said. They're going to trade him by the end of the year, which, you know, whether he wants that or not, who knows? But, yeah, for the time being, the trade's fine. Go to a, you know, nice place like Columbus for a few months.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I would have loved to have seen the Leafs grab him. They need. That's exactly what they need.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Why are you laughing?

[Biz Nasty]

Just funny that, like, they need so much, but I kind of knew that was coming. But I agree with you. I agree with you. I mean, they're. Columbus is in last place. They're worse than the Leafs. It's wild. I just didn't. Didn't see this. Like, Warrensky not only leads them in points, he leads them in goals. Now, I, I understand you got one of the best defensemen in the world on the team, but, like, where's the. Where's the offense? Where's the firepower? Where are the guys that you thought would take even a bigger step? They just haven't done it. And I don't know, like, jet grease hasn't been bad at all. The goalie, he's been pretty good. So it's not. Not goal. It's not like somebody like, oh, they can't get a save. They just don't score enough. And their, Their differential, when you're talking about that biz, they're. They're minus 19. They got the worst differential in the Eastern conference by. By 10. No. 1's. Toronto's minus nine. And then the next worst is Columbus minus 19 goal differential. So I don't know. They have 105 goals scored. The Rangers have less than that. I think that's the only team or no Philly and Jersey as well. But you know, we'll see what he can do there. Jack Hughes back though, when talking about Jersey. What a rock star this guy. He's out injured. He somehow meets or I don't know, somehow, I guess because he's a very good looking guy. Was nasty at hockey. Goes on a date with Tate McCrae and then comes back. She's at the game and he snipes in his first game back. Devils lose, but Jack Hughes being back. Gritsuk back in the lineup. They're getting guys healthy, but what a dog. The guy brings Tate McCrae and then just comes into the zone. Gretzky curls up the boards. Nobody goes to him. I don't know what they were thinking on that one, but then he just ripped one. Great celebration at center ice with the white skates on. He's back. Pasha, are you happy now? Is Pasha even here right now?

[Peter Chiarelli]

Nice. Abusing himself to that video. Oh, hey, Pasha.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah, yeah, I'm relatively happy. Obviously the team is not doing well.

[Joe Bowen]

They got a lot of issues they.

[Biz Nasty]

Got to figure out, but they're finally getting healthy. In the past week alone, Pesci, Meyer, Gritsuk and Hughes all back in the lineup.

[Joe Bowen]

So that's obviously like half their best players there. So, you know, I'm not worried that.

[Biz Nasty]

They lost that game.

[Joe Bowen]

I thought they played pretty well.

[Biz Nasty]

So yeah, they'll. They'll iron it out. And then actually TMZ just posted a few hours ago, Jack and Tate kind of wandering around, strolling around NYC this morning.

[Joe Bowen]

So. Wow.

[Keith Yandle]

To the Rangers.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yeah. Oh, for sure, for sure. They're scalping out apartments together in Hell's Kitchen.

[Biz Nasty]

The.

[Peter Chiarelli]

The. The box next to Tate. It was Fitzy's box. Did you see the photo I saw? Momming overseeing what's going on? Is this going to be a distraction to our team? So do you think he has. People kind of got bigger things to.

[Joe Bowen]

Worry about than Jock's level.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, he's got to go out and.

[Biz Nasty]

Pull the trigger on a trade.

[Joe Bowen]

Get a centerman, get a winger. He doesn't have to worry about what Jack's doing his off time.

[Keith Yandle]

But having Tate McCray in the boxes at your game at the Prudential center is more attractive to get a centerman. A left winger like that's bringing.

[Biz Nasty]

O'Reilly really cares about having Tate McCray in the building.

[Keith Yandle]

He does.

[Biz Nasty]

Well, hey, what are the chances Frank the Tank's hanging with Tate McCray. At one point right.

[Joe Bowen]

Now with Arnold Schwarzenegger. Do you see that?

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah. Is he actually gonna, he's gonna do, Is he doing Frank's walk? He. No, he's, I'm pretty sure he's flying.

[Joe Bowen]

Out to like Muscle beach or whatever to like legit workout with Arnold. Arnold tweeted about it today.

[Peter Chiarelli]

The spark work and the pump, so to speak, that, that the Devils need maybe that. Hey, he. You know who we should bring the gym with him is Jack and Luke. They should, they should be pumping iron.

[Biz Nasty]

I know. Boys. As of one minute ago, breaking news.

[Joe Bowen]

Pasha Freeman. The Leafs have relieved Mark Savard of his coaching dude. His assistant coaching dude.

[Biz Nasty]

Oh, they fired an assistant coach. I mean that was because he was.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Celebrating our goals in the playoffs last year.

[Biz Nasty]

Oh, that was first playoff goal in the first round. Yeah. And like Barubi looked at him like, calm the fuck down.

[Peter Chiarelli]

So, so obviously we never want to see anybody get fired. The power play for the Leafs has, has been absolutely atrocious. Now I guess you gotta go with the guy who's running the power play and is he not the guy who's running the power play?

[Biz Nasty]

I, I would guess, I, I, I would assume based on his career and being one of the best pastors I ever saw, that he's not running the pk.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yeah, yeah.

[Keith Yandle]

So does that, that probably means Chief safe, right? If they're, if that's the play that they're doing.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I just, I don't, I don't see them firing him mid season unless tree and staff is getting major, major pressure from up top. But even in that situation, maybe he's like, no. And he's like, I'll land on the grenade. So I don't know what changes are coming, man, but it is like the word. I could imagine what those guys are going through right now. It's got to be hell. Because expectations, even though they lost Marner were for sure they're finishing top three in their division. Whit just said the fucking points was set at just below 100. What was it? 99.5 points. Was the under over? Of course if they lose the next game, they, there's a chance that they end up last in their division at Christmas time. The only hope that we have is when Chief won his Stanley cup they were last at Christmas time. Like that is the only thing that I'm going off of at this point to think that can catapult this team to even getting in a wild card situation. So this is, this is bad. I hope that it's not the case. But the good news is here is they have probably what, about 12 to 15 games before Olympic break to figure it out and get themselves within striking distance and at least right the ship because right now it is fucking ugly.

[Biz Nasty]

And for a guy who hates the Leafs, I, I would almost feel as. I'd love this. I mean, they're not even getting the same amount of fans. The attendance is down. They stink. They're one point out of last place in the conference. They got guys that are, you know, I, I think Matthew's quote that made waves was like, I love the process. You just lost to the Nashville Predators. And then people were furious about that. And then Chief comes out and when asked about the team being ready to play and their, their commitment said, go ask them. So then you see kind of like that, that creates a battle, especially in that city, between player and coach. It's. And even I'm like, oh, my God, I didn't want, I didn't want to be this bad. I want him to blow it in the first round like they usually do, but I didn't want to see them turn into just a laughingstock throughout the regular season because I did enjoy watching the Leafs play. Nylander flying around. The quotes by Nylander were bizarre. Like for one of the most confident players and, and I guess cocky. Like, I don't know him, but he comes off as a little cocky. Very sure of himself.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Not much of phases William Nylander, which he should be.

[Biz Nasty]

He's like, I've never dealt with anything like this. At least he said, at least in the NHL. I don't ever remember feeling like this. And I believe he was talking about just his confidence as a player and his ability to produce points, which is always. He hasn't easy to him.

[Keith Yandle]

He hasn't scored in almost a month.

[Biz Nasty]

Domi hasn't. Domi got healthy scratch. He hasn't scored since October.

[Peter Chiarelli]

So before I, before I fired anyone, including Mark Savard, I would have just simply walked in the locker room and said, I'm implementing a dress code. I don't give a fuck about your, your, your Louis Vuitton toiletry bags. I don't give a shit about your Gucci sweaters or your, your. What's the other one these guys are using all the time? Chrome hearts. Your, your, your bedazzled jeans. You looking like that with. They're wearing these chrome heart jeans. They got the decals on them.

[Biz Nasty]

I gotta go.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yeah, like 10 grand. Yeah, like off with these outfits. I said the same thing. Would just put A black suit on with a white shirt and a black tie like you're driving a goddamn limousine. Walk into the rink like it's all business and win some goddamn hockey games. That's it. Off with the. With the sweaters that they're. They're tying up near the collar. Like. I get that you want to show off your personality. How about you show us how to fucking dangle out there and start putting the puck in the back of the net? How about you. You show us how you have hair on your nuts and get in the corner and win a goddamn puck battle. Okay? I haven't seen sustained pressure since last year in the first round against the Ottawa goddamn Senators.

[Keith Yandle]

They.

[Peter Chiarelli]

They.

[Biz Nasty]

No, they had a first two games of the second round.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yeah, that too. That's true. You're.

[Keith Yandle]

You're.

[Peter Chiarelli]

You're right. But they go in the offensive zone now and they're one and done. They're fucking. They're pumping, dumping like it's a fucking meme coin stock that Pasha just bought.

[Keith Yandle]

And then changing on the back check.

[Biz Nasty]

They won't even eat the minus googling chrome heart jeans. We have a pair that's 84,900. That's one pair of jeans. A pair that's $48,019. A $35,000 pair. A $20,000 pair.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Where also ice like cooperals, if they cost that much. Show me something.

[Biz Nasty]

Couple hundred dollar pairs at least.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Maybe the glare off the diamond encrusted gene will distract the defenseman so you can walk him and put the puck between the goalie's legs. William Nylander, I love you, Bully. I love you. You're a handsome bastard. You got more money than God at this point. Hook the puck in the back of the net, wear a black suit off the glass and out, baby. Keep it simple going into the game. Don't give him any leverage. Let's go here. Starts with the dress code. All business. That's where I'm going with it.

[Keith Yandle]

Well, it's like. Who was the. It was against Dallas, right? Lawton scored late to make it. I think it was like 2:1, right? There's no jam after that. Absolutely nothing. I think it was in. I don't want to pick on anyone. I think it was Michelle in the third for the third goal that they scored against. He looked like me out there trying to block a shot. Like you. If your team's going this bad, you have to like. And I get it. He's been. He's been getting scratched. He's been in and out of the lineup that Cowan's been playing over him, which is another thing.

[Biz Nasty]

They scratched Cowan the other day.

[Keith Yandle]

So it's like whether he might not be 100% in, right? Cause he's like, oh fuck, if I have a bad game, I'm going to be out. He's probably just trying to play it safe. But like, you haven't been winning, your team's in the shit. You're playing in the mecca of hockey where you're going to hear about it. You got to go out and block that shot. You got to go out and get those pucks out. Like the little things in a game. Like there's no jam after. When your 4th line center or 3rd line center scores a goal, you got to have jam that next shift, you have to bring it out. And whether that means chief just playing the third and fourth line, play them 20 minutes, the whole game. Let those other guys marinate a little bit. But I don't know.

[Biz Nasty]

They don't even have their first rounder. It's top five protected now. It looks like they. I mean imagine, imagine they end up with a top five pick. At least they get to keep it. But assuming that's the. That's what's going on. Like then next year I think it would just. The Bruins would have next year's first round pick that I'm guessing wouldn't be protected. They also don't have 2028. If that was the case because because.

[Joe Bowen]

Of it went to Philly for the lot and trade.

[Peter Chiarelli]

It would just all get backed up. Yeah, it would all get backed up.

[Joe Bowen]

So they're screwed.

[Biz Nasty]

So they are in one dot com. Which makes it a little awkward that we have Joe Bowen on. But we were talking about this guy's life in the game over 3,000 games. 1982, I believe he started. The Leafs are bad, but Joe Bowen is entertaining. And what a voice on this guy. Holy mackinac. So let's throw it over right now to a legend in the game, a Hall of Famer, Joe Bowen. Guys, I quickly want to talk about Pink Whitney. I know everyone out there. If you see on video right now, G is holding what I like to call the birdie bucket, the 20 shot bucket of Pink Whitney pink lemonade flavored vodka from New Amsterdam. And every person out there is always looking for stocking stuffers. Now granted, if you have little children, this is not a great stocking stuffer. But if you have an adult that you need to stuff a stocking for, the Pink Whitney nips are perfection. Then you Just throw them in the fridge and you wait a couple minutes. And then Christmas morning you catch a little buzz on the Pink Whitney. You enjoy yourselves, whether you're maybe outdoor fishing, outdoor rink season, you got so many different options. Or if you're in warm weather, maybe people are going to the beach on Christmas and they're taking with them the pink Whitney. The little shooters or the big old bottle, it doesn't matter. Make somebody's Christmas very special. Make their holidays memorable with a gift of Pink Whitney. Shout out Pink Whitney Vodka. Thank you so much to everyone who's ever tried it. And if you haven't, give it a shot. We love you all. Guys, I need to talk about Noble right now. This episode is brought to you by Noble. Noble is a footwear brand for training and for daily life. So comfortable. Incredible shoe. It's built to support you in your pursuit of physical, mental and emotional strength. And Noble celebrates a no bullshit approach to wellness. That's the way to look at it. No bullshit. I'm not cheating anything. And it starts with my footwear. Noble has that for you. They've got options across lifestyle and training and they're the best shoe for anyone who wants to be a better version of themselves. Plus, Noble is now the official training shoe of the NHL. Exclusively for Spit and Chiclets listeners. Noble is offering 40% off your order. Visit www.nobleproject.com Chicklets for 40% off your entire order. Hey, the New Year's coming. A lot of people want to change their routines. They want to get in better shape. You need some new shoes to do that, to start your pursuit of wellness with the no bull approach, the no bullshit approach.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Go.

[Biz Nasty]

Go right now to www.n o b u l l p r-o j E-C-T.com backslash chicklets for 40% off. The official training shoe of the National Hockey League. It is an absolute thrill and honor right now to bring in this man, the voice of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Hats off. Hats off. The last season he'll be doing it. The legend, Joe Bowen. What's going on, Joe?

[Joe Bowen]

Not much, boys. As they say, things are going just swimmingly. Thank you. And it's, it's my last season. I didn't think it was going to be my longest season, but we're, we're, we're hoping we can get things turned around and get things moving in the right direction.

[Peter Chiarelli]

What do they need to do in order to do that?

[Joe Bowen]

Well, biz, you can't play defense anymore and you couldn't play even when I watched you before. So I don't think you're the answer. Other people here might be an answer to it, but maybe. I don't know. There's the unfortunate part about all of this is it will probably cost someone a job, and the issue is you can't change the roster, and so you need to. They'll probably end up changing the voice. And, and, and it's not right, you know, I mean, there are great people that are doing this, and it's, and it's, it's the nature of the business, I guess, guys. And, and you're. You guys have been in the dressing room, you, you know, when all of a sudden the voice is just tuned out and, and it happens. Right. It's. It's a fact of life, I guess, in some instances, because even the great ones, like Scotty Bowman got fired in Buffalo, so those things happen and. I don't know, you hope it turns around to allow that not to be the case. But the way things are going right now, it seems like it's almost the inevitable.

[Biz Nasty]

Well, the news kind of the past few days. What was Barubi saying when asked about the effort and the consistency? Like, I don't know. You gotta ask them. That was one that was maybe kind of conceived as like, hey, it's, it's, it's not me, it's them. Like, did you agree with maybe that? And I know there's been things players have said that they've got called out for, but what did you think of that comment?

[Joe Bowen]

Human nature.

[Biz Nasty]

Yep.

[Joe Bowen]

You know, I mean, you're trying everything you can at some point. I mean, I remember when, when Pat Burns was coaching the Leafs and they had those wonderful runs back in the 90s, and it got to the point where. And he was a firm believer of this, that he felt that his act lasted three, four years. And he was proven correct. I mean, Montreal knew when to get out there. Left Toronto, Boston, now New Jersey, and then he wins a Stanley cup and unfortunately, health issues and, and an early demise. But, but he was of the opinion that they weren't. It literally, they were sitting and looking, but the ears were turned off. And whether that message gets through one way or the other, every coach has a different style, a different, A different system. And you have to try to work that system into the situation, what kind of players that you have available and, and trust me, I don't know systems from shine or shinola, what they're trying to do. You, you kind of look at the, at the larger Picture of things. You guys have been in a room, especially a defenseman, you know, what they're trying to do defensively, what they're trying to do to move the puck quicker. The less time you spend down there, the better it is. And right now they're spending way too much time in their own end of the rink and not out shooting people. They've had one time this year, they've had 40 shots on goal. Now the other night in Dallas, they outshot them and played very well. You know, they outshot them, had chances, two breakaways with your two premier players that didn't go in and that dictated how the game was going to fall as it went forward.

[Keith Yandle]

But Joe, even though, I mean, we always talk about the life expectancy of a coach, like you said, three years, but we all know, Chief, we know the way he played, the way he coaches, like, at what point is it, you know, the players got to look themselves in the mirror and figure it out in there where if another coach does come in, is that going to be the answer or is it just going to rinse and repeat and just can continue to happen there?

[Joe Bowen]

Well, you hope not. I mean, that's the only thing management looks at, I suppose, is that a different voice and maybe a different system is going to change things. But, you know, there's an awful lot of team oriented things where you're sitting next door to somebody and you're going, well, it's not me. Yeah, it's not me. I mean, maybe it's a little bit me, but it's certainly not me. It can't be me because I'm really trying hard. And, and that's, I mean, I, I'm no psychologist, but that's the guy. You got to get two and say, yes, it is. You're in it just as deep as the rest of us. You may not be playing 30 minutes a game, but you're, you're certainly a part of all of this. And, and it, unfortunately, it ends up going to your hands, I think, more than anything. Right. And then the other aspect is you start thinking too much. And Harry Neal always had the great line, don't think you'll hurt the team if you have to react. And then, but we see the team, we see the Leafs many times, especially defensive zone coverage. Well, should I be here? Where should I be?

[Biz Nasty]

Where?

[Joe Bowen]

You know, and there you're thinking. And by the time you finish thinking, the reaction time is gone and you're not in a position to, to, you know, do something positive in the defensive Zone. So I'll, I'll sit back with Harry Neal's great line. Don't think you'll hurt the team. Which was great because you two guys couldn't think. So you never hurt the team.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Exactly. That was my biggest attribute, is I literally couldn't think.

[Joe Bowen]

But, you know, there's a great thing to being dumb as a bag of hammers, you know, and in sports, a lot of times, being that dumb really kind of helps you out.

[Peter Chiarelli]

This is the levity the locker room needs right now. And as depressing as it is and as gloom as it is, we didn't have, we didn't have you on the podcast to talk about how shitty this year has gone. We, we wanted to bring you on to, to enlighten Leafs fans, bring us through the, the glory days and all the fun that you've provided them over the last 44 years. And, and, you know, they honored you last week. And, and congratulations on an incredible run. You've been the voice of the Toronto Maple Leafs since. That's all I've known.

[Biz Nasty]

Right.

[Joe Bowen]

So you, you were in Welland, right? You grew up in Welland. Now I think you're a year older than my second oldest son, Derek, and we had a team called the Markham Thunder, Triple A team. And we went down to Welland and beat the doors off. You probably weren't on that team. You were a little younger. I was, yeah. No, we had some great runs with the guys in Welland and great, great fun, great people down there. So all of the best to them.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Oh, thank you, buddy. Yeah, it's great to finally get you on. We've had people barking forever to do it. I think now ended up being the perfect time. And usually how we like to ask our guests is we want to go back to the beginning and find out how everything started. When did your joy and love for hockey begin?

[Joe Bowen]

Well, I was told by mother and father that I was fussing and being walked around the floor when Bill Barilco scored the winning goal for the Maple Leafs in 1951. So let's start there. That I was a couple of days old, I suppose, but now, growing up in Sudbury, my dad was a general surgeon in Sudbury, delivered 3,000 Sudbarians, made two mistakes. Their names were Paul Rimstead, who was a complete nut bar, who used to write columns for the Toronto Sun. And the other guy, you guys might remember, Edward Shaq.

[Biz Nasty]

Oh, we had him on Shaq.

[Joe Bowen]

We had him on Shocky. Well, Eddie Shaq was my dad, pretty much, I think. Dragged him out by his nose. And he was. He was. He was quite the character, for sure. But my dad was a huge hockey fan. He played goal for University of Western Ontario Mustangs back in the day when goalies weren't allowed to fall down. And we were both huge Leaf fans and Johnny Bauer fans.

[Keith Yandle]

You said your dad delivered 3,000 babies, and you've delivered 3,000 NHL games. Is that something that you kind of. That was in the back of your mind?

[Joe Bowen]

It's not nearly. It doesn't even compare. Come on, now. I mean, please.

[Keith Yandle]

A lot of babies were probably conceived listening to you.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah.

[Joe Bowen]

Oh, yeah.

[Biz Nasty]

That's a little bit more about this.

[Joe Bowen]

Podcast, and here it goes down into the. All right, all right, well, whatever. Whatever. Whatever floats your boat, I suppose.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Hey, watch your half of those Leaf games. Might have been more painful than what the women were going through, actually.

[Joe Bowen]

Well, you never know about that, but, you know, it's. It's been a delight. I did a little bit of math, and I think that I have called the names of almost 700 players who have pulled the Leaf jersey over their shoulders. Oh. Which I'm. And. And one of the things that I'm really looking forward to in retirement is being a part of. I'm an honorary member of the Toronto Maple Leaf Alumni association, and I'm looking forward to being a very active helper in their different events that they have going on throughout the course of the year.

[Biz Nasty]

Your voice is just incredible. Like, that's the thing. It's like some people are just born with different gifts. It's unbelievable, Joe. And it's just the holy Mackinac and all the different things. When did you kind of know, like, you were good at this? Like, was it in college? Like, did you do it in high school even? Like, what's the beginning for a broadcast?

[Joe Bowen]

Well, backyard playing ball hockey, Right?

[Biz Nasty]

You were doing the announcing.

[Joe Bowen]

Someone had to do the announcing while I was trying to stop the ball from going into the net. So, yeah, I guess we all did that as kids. We grew up loving Foster UART and hating Danny Gallivan because he was doing the Montreal games. And later on in life, I got to meet and really my idol. Danny was just an unbelievable individual from Nova Scotia. And I've always said that Danny Gallivan is at the very top of the. Of the Mount Rushmore, and the rest of us are stick handling our way down below there in the muck trying to get anywhere close to him. He was unbelievable. He was a tremendous individual. And Foster, of course, was doing the Leaf game, so we loved him.

[Keith Yandle]

Can you talk a little bit about. Because I was always amazed, especially after the fact, you know, getting into the broadcasting and stuff like that. But you just kind of your day to day of a game day. Like the notes that I remember seeing, whether it was Darren Pang or, you know, Heater and Phoenix, like the notes that you guys had, like the. The amount of stuff you had written down about people like, you must have been working all day before a game.

[Joe Bowen]

In the old days without the intranet. What a wonderful little invention this is. You know, they have stuff on there that. Well, never mind. Anyway, that's. Yeah, you had to go down to the rink to get the stats right, and then you came home and you did your. Your pregame prep. And guys, it's funny because there's not one play byplay guy that I know that you could say he copied somebody. And this is. He does it exactly like so and so no one does it the same. Everybody has their own little cheat sheets, their own little way of doing things. My son David does hardly has any material because he has it on his phone. And I'm going, what happens if that thing goes right into the shider? What happens then? Where's this. Where's this to have in your hand? But he, you know, that's the way he does the games. And so no one really does it the same way. But there was a lot of things to do. And then the longer that you go into this, I think, Ryan, you realize I'm preparing an awful lot of stuff that unless there's five breaks of glass, I ain't gonna use any of this shite. I mean, just, you know, but. But it becomes just a force of habit. I want it there just in case. Justin.

[Peter Chiarelli]

So you started out doing it with the Sudbury Wolves, Correct, like back home.

[Joe Bowen]

I started doing play by play in University at Windsor, doing mostly basketball because we had a really good basketball program there and went to the national championships in two of the three years that I was there. But when I went home, as I said, my dad passed away when I was 14, but his best friend growing up was a gentleman named Bill Plont. Mr. Plant owned the TV and radio station in Sudbury and was part owner of the Sudbury Wolves. So that's. I walked down the hall one day when the. The former announcer was going to the CBC and I said, Mr. Plot, I'd like to audition for this. And he said, no, I've heard you. Go ahead. So it wasn't so much what I knew, it was who I knew. And that was an enormous break that I got doing that.

[Keith Yandle]

That's life.

[Peter Chiarelli]

That must have been a fun time getting your reps in junior, Right. Like, did you feel like you. You started advancing very quickly once you hopped into hockey, even though you were doing basketball before?

[Joe Bowen]

Well, yes, and I did some hockey when I was at Windsor as well. But guys like you can't do play by play. I. I think. I think. Oh, young man in Florida.

[Keith Yandle]

Jovo.

[Joe Bowen]

Yeah. Did play by play, right? A little bit, but nobody else. You need to ride the bus. You really do. You got to get on. You got to get into a routine. You get on the bus, you're driving, you're going to games, you're developing your own style. Other athletes have done football, baseball, because it's slower, it's more conversational.

[Biz Nasty]

Right.

[Joe Bowen]

You can do that. If you have some preparation done, you can. I could do baseball without problem. Might not be real good, but I could do it. But play by play of hockey is too fast, especially if it's not tv. If you're doing radio and you're trying to paint a picture in someone's mind as to where the puck is and who has it and what's going on, you got to develop a style and not only repetition and. And as I say, riding the bus get you to that stage.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I used to do it with Bob Heathouse. I believe it was Yance, who might have mentioned him. He was awesome.

[Joe Bowen]

Yeah.

[Peter Chiarelli]

And he. He took me under his wing and did so with Tyson Nash and. And Louis DeBruss. But I used to say, you say, peter, you're singing tonight. And it was almost this, like, this cadence that you had to adapt to. And I don't think people know how tiring it is because you're talking the entire time and you're trying to pace it and stuff like that. So it probably. How long did it take for you to finally get that right cadence where you're like, this is the way that I'm going to stick with the rest of my career. And then going back to Whit said the Holy Mackinac, which is your famous line.

[Joe Bowen]

Well, that. That developed over seven years in junior and three years in Nova Scotia doing the Nova Scotia Voyager games and probably a couple of years in Toronto so that you didn't lose your voice? You know, the whole idea of it is it's got to go to a crescendo, but it's got. You got to get it back. Because if you get here and then just try to keep going at that level, you're not going to last. It ain't going to happen. I don't care whose voice you have. So you've got to. You've got to kind of ebb and flow it and. And then let your guy that you're working with kind of help you get it back down to some area that, you know, we can start again and start to build a bit of a crescendo depending on what's going on. So. And. And I. One of the things that I did do, I. I had a problem with my. My throat and whatnot. And I went to St. Mike's and a lady who worked with opera singers said to me, what you're doing is you're. You're. You're trying to enunciate from here as opposed to your diaphragm. And so I had to try to learn. And she taught me some valuable lessons, to breathe in order to speak from your diaphragm rather than to try to use your.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Your.

[Joe Bowen]

Just your throat. And it was a great lesson. Great lesson.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Did she have you also sing while doing it?

[Joe Bowen]

No.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Oh, you did?

[Joe Bowen]

No, and I'm not singing on this show.

[Biz Nasty]

I knew. I figured he was gonna.

[Keith Yandle]

Knew that was coming.

[Biz Nasty]

He was gonna.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Blair on.

[Joe Bowen]

Now, if I have about five Crown Royal and Diet Cokes, I can sing just about any Irish tune you want, but that takes a little work first to get it.

[Peter Chiarelli]

And also for the people not watching on our YouTube, he's got the Fighting Irish shirt on. I'm sure that has a lot to do with your background. Were you a Notre Dame Fighting Irish fan as well?

[Keith Yandle]

I got a text from James Van Reem Dyke, and he was. The first thing he said about you was huge, Huge Notre Dame fan. And you set up the parents on a tour there during, like, the parents trip.

[Joe Bowen]

Yep. Yeah, we've. We've had some wonderful times. John Heisler, who was the assistant athletic director in charge of media relations down there for many years, is a dear friend. Perry Delis, who's from Sudbury, who just lived up the street from me, is a big booster. In fact, the team store at the arena at South Bend and at Notre Dame is named the Delice Team Store. My dad was a huge fan, and I became a huge fan, and I brainwashed my four kids into it. So we live and die with the boys, with the. From the Fighting Irish. If you want to get into something right now, boys, we could talk a little bit about how that college football.

[Peter Chiarelli]

No, you're screwed.

[Joe Bowen]

Not that I'm upset. I'm almost over it.

[Biz Nasty]

Well, hey, I, I watched the JMU and, and, and Tulane, and I'm like, notre Dame's not playing. What are we doing here.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Getting all fired up. Hey, quickly, could we go back to the Holy Mackinac. I read it was your father who, who used to say it, and then that's where you, you took it from and dropped on his household saying, and, and I.

[Joe Bowen]

And it's funny because of all of the kind of attention that I'm getting here with this retirement thing and the big night that they had. I've gotten all kinds of people trying to help me. And I had, of course, the tiger cat rant from the Hamilton Tiger Cats. Oskie Wee wee Oskie Wawa. Holy Mackinac. Eat them raw is one of them. But then I heard there was a war movie from the 1940s that one of the actors bellowed out, holy Mackinac. And my dad was a huge history buff, so that may have been there. And then people from Mackinac island in Michigan and Mackinac and then hold. I don't.

[Peter Chiarelli]

They're all trying to take credit for it.

[Joe Bowen]

I wish I'd asked my dad, but I never was. Got the chance.

[Biz Nasty]

Oh, it's such a classic, though. Like a big time goal scored. You hear that? It just added to the clip of the goal, like your soundtrack to it. And I, I want to go back because the coolest thing about, about you, besides the voice, is the longevity. Like, that's what's so incredible. And I want to wonder, like, when you got to the Leafs, like, take me through that team, like, because it was so long ago, who was on that team, who was the captain? Like, what do you remember about your rookie year in the NHL?

[Joe Bowen]

Well, my, the one thing I remember about the very first game is I was nervous as hell and I had prepared a nice little intro to introduce myself to everybody. And I got, I wanted to go to the rink early. I got in a cab with the biggest cab driver I've ever seen in my life. And we started down West Madison street in Chicago. And it's a, it was the worst part of town. And I thought, I'm going for my last ride and I'm never going to get a chance to do one damn game in this league. And there the mausoleum of the stadium came into sight. I got there and when I got up to the booth, you had to go up 97 stairs to walk up to the old stadium to get to the, the press box area. They couldn't get us on the air. And it was through telephone lines at that time. There was no Internet, of course. And my engineer, I had all of this stuff ready to go, and there they just dropped the puck and he went, you're on. Oh, none of this other stuff that or that up. Throw that out the window. And off we went, which was probably good because I can only imagine my voice breaking and shattering there while I. I had Joe Bullet here and. But we got off and we got running, and Ricky Vive was on that team. Walt Poney, God rest his soul, scored two goals to drag the Leafs back to a 33 tie against the Blackhawks that night. And standing in the Oregon loft area, did you play at the old stadium?

[Biz Nasty]

I wish. I wish.

[Joe Bowen]

Oh, God, it was unbelievable. Unbelievable. And my favorite sports venue of all time. But at the end of the building, there was the big organ that Frank Pellico would be playing on, and the extra players from the Blackhawks used to go and sit up there, and there was a young man from Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, goaltender of some note from the Ottawa 67s, who had won the Dave Paint Me award for the lowest gold goals against average, battling Mike Moffett for that title. He still holds the record for having the highest goals against average ever to be the lowest goals against average in the Ontario Hockey League. And his name was Jim Ralph. So Ralphie was in the building when I was doing my very first game.

[Peter Chiarelli]

No way. That's. That's crazy.

[Keith Yandle]

You said earlier about hockey players, once you start thinking it's bad. So that probably helped you on your first call when you didn't have to think. They just threw you right into it. It.

[Joe Bowen]

I was scared to death. I was. I was nervous as hell. But once you got into it, away we went. And. And as they say, the. The rest is history. I. I'm. I'm most proud of the fact, I think, that I have done more seasons than Foster Hewitt did, and I easily did a lot more games because back then there were only six teams to start with. But they didn't do every game. When they first started, when Foster first started doing radio for the National Hockey League, it was like one game a week, which was Hockey Night in Canada on radio.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I mean, I could Google it right now. But when you stepped in, do you remember how many teams were in the league?

[Joe Bowen]

17, 18.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Okay. So under 20 at that time. So it was probably a little easier to remember.

[Joe Bowen]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, you played the Blackhawks about eight times. So, yeah, it was. Yeah, it was. It was great. It was the. The League was different. It was a lot more physical. There was a lot more mayhem. It was an interesting time to. To be part of the National Hockey League.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Throughout my five years or five and change in the league, there was a few times I got called into the GM or coach's office. Now, in your early days, was there ever anything, ever anything you said maybe that upset ownership or something, where you ended up having to get called in and peepee whacked?

[Joe Bowen]

Well, we had Harold running the operation, right? And Harold, Harold, I don't know as Harold, liked me very much, but he loved me. Usually when we were out walking around, maybe in St. Louis or somewhere, and he wasn't allowed to have ice cream because of his diabetes, and he never had any cash on him, but I always had a couple of bucks, and he'd always borrow a couple of dollars so he could sneak an ice cream in. So he. I think he put up with me. No, I've never had. In 44 years, I've never had someone from management say, hey, you know what? Could you ease off on that? Or that wasn't right, or something of that nature. And I. I'm happy about that because, I mean, everybody said, well, you're a homer. Well, you're damn right I am. I mean, but. But I've always said I'm an objective homer. And if they're not playing well within, you have to. You. You can't whitewash a picket fence that doesn't have anything in it. And it's so. Well, that didn't make much sense either, did it? But anyway, the whole point of it is that, that you have to be objective through the course of the thing, but you don't need to assault people, and you don't need to be really going all overboard and everything else. We're going through a real tough time. But those guys, you know, for people to say they're not trying to. And that covers a great big spectrum. Sometimes what they're doing is what we talked about earlier. They're trying too hard. They're thinking instead of reacting. They're not playing the way they have been brought up to be reactive and just flow. And you have to be comfortable in your own space and in your own mind to be productive. And sometimes it just gets going sideways real fast.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Any. Any hot mics? We had an incident recently in Philadelphia.

[Joe Bowen]

And he's such a good guy.

[Biz Nasty]

He's the man.

[Peter Chiarelli]

He's the best.

[Joe Bowen]

Now, one, one. My Bill Waters did color with me for a number of years, and Wilbur at the time Was the biggest player agent in the National Hockey League. Talk about a conflict of interest. But he was great. And Wilbur is one of my absolute dear friends. We're in Boston one night and we. The team wasn't very good. We were closing in on. On the Wendell Clark draft and the. I think we were losing six nothing in the second period. And we go to a commercial break. And the engineer that I have, the guy helping us is the most disinterested human being in the world. He's sitting there reading the New York Times and whatnot. He could care less about the thing anyway. He doesn't pot us down. And that's what happened, unfortunately, to my friends in, in Philadelphia. He got sewered by somebody back at the station, not potting us down. Anyway, we. Wilbur says we had a couple of three Czechoslovakians on the team. And Wilbur said, we don't get rid of these three blankety blank checks, we're going nowhere. And I just kind of went, yeah, probably. I don't know. And I went on. Wasn't really paying attention to it. We didn't have cell phones or anything at the time. We get back to our hotel, red lights flashing, and Wilbur's assistant, Ricky Curran, who was also an agent, he said, do you know what you guys said on the air tonight? And I went, no. Well, then he repeated it to us. I thought, oh, we're done. We're absolutely done here. We're done. We come back home, we fly home, we get back home, nothing. Day, next day, nothing. Next game, we go to the rink, nothing. And I turned to Wilbur and I said, you know what? Wilbur was six nothing. One of two things happened here. Either no one was listening or everyone went, you're damn right there. So anyway, I was. That was the mic drop.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I thought, you're going to tell me they traded all three Czech guys.

[Joe Bowen]

No, they didn't.

[Keith Yandle]

Gave them a raise.

[Joe Bowen]

But it, it was. Yeah, yeah, we thought we were going to get fired, but no one we did. We didn't feel the repercussions at that. It'd be 85, maybe 1985.

[Biz Nasty]

You mentioned the, the coming up on the Wendell Clark draft. And are those your best memories? Because for me, like in 93 and Gilmore and Felix Poffin and all those teams later on, like, that's what I remember of the Leafs. Like, they don't have a cup, but they had those entertaining teams with superstars. Like, for you, were those the most memorable times or was it the past 10 years where they've had some great teams and just you know, haven't been able to get over the finish line.

[Joe Bowen]

Well, we, we didn't get over the finish line back then either.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah, I know.

[Joe Bowen]

One, the one thing about that, those teams guys was it was sort of like the high water marker. The, the team with Harold running, it was not going to be given enough of the. The things that needed to.

[Peter Chiarelli]

To improve.

[Joe Bowen]

They weren't going to spend money on extra coaching. They weren't going to do this because Harold was more concerned about the bottom line and, and everything else.

[Biz Nasty]

You were paying for his ice cream, for Christ sake. So.

[Joe Bowen]

Yeah, well, yeah, didn't get repaid for that either.

[Peter Chiarelli]

That's how blizzards were invented. He was stirring it up for him with the topics.

[Joe Bowen]

But after his passing, the management of this organization has not stopped in its efforts to win. They have spent the money, they have brought in quality people. They have done whatever they've had to do. Hasn't worked out, but it's been that close. All right, so. But the goal by Nikki Boruchevsky against Detroit that spurred that team on to play 21 playoff games in 42 nights, that was the difference. That was the difference that had to have happened. And from that point on, no, they haven't won it, but it hasn't been for the lack of resources or the lack of trying.

[Keith Yandle]

Because you see all the videos and you know, the guys, especially that era that Whit was saying, like giving you their. Your farewell and saying nice words about you, it just seems like. It almost seems like you were a part of that team. You obviously you were a part of it, but it seems like you were on that team. Is that because the way you guys were traveling, you were hanging out with the guys, you were probably around the same age as some of them.

[Joe Bowen]

Yep. No, no question. I mean, it was. Cliff really made you feel a part and parcel of it. I mean, we would go down on road trips and check into our room, wander down to the bar and Cliff would be there. Bill Waters was the assistant GM and everybody. And, and hey, what are you doing tonight? Let's come on, we're all going out for dinner. And so we really did feel quite a bit part of the team. And it was a very, very special time. And Cliff is one of my dear friends and I have so much respect for him and his knowledge and everything else. And if he's watching this, want to say hi to him down in Arizona because he's a wonderful, wonderful human being.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yeah. Christine Simpson just did a feature on him on the Amazon. Amazon Prime Monday Night game. So that was very cool. He still looks great.

[Biz Nasty]

Oh, I know he does.

[Joe Bowen]

Yeah. Oh no, he's, he, he's a great guy. And that platinum American Express card got used a lot.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Whifford.

[Joe Bowen]

When he went out, he went first class.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yeah, he took care of the boys too. I'm sure on, on the roadies especially now, I'm sure it's hard to narrow down a list. Like we kind of just teed it up as far as your, the glory days and your favorite memories. But for you and your longevity, like who are your top five Leafs of all time? And, and maybe explain as to why and, and why they hit home for you and your personal attachment.

[Joe Bowen]

Boy, that's, that's tough.

[Biz Nasty]

Got 700 to choose from.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yeah.

[Joe Bowen]

Yeah.

[Peter Chiarelli]

No, no. Yeah, you had to have maybe spent some time with a few of them off the ice.

[Joe Bowen]

And Wendell Clark is always one of my favorites. Mainly because we got to hear the plight of the Canadian farmer from lesson Elma. When we were came out then there was, I mean, Ricky Vive has been a dear friend of mine over the years and been a great friend. Dougie Gilmore, Curtis Joseph living around here, just a tremendous individual. Matt's. I mean, I kind of going through the top echelon of all of these guys. But you know, like Wally Podubny was a great, great friend. I mean he was huge into the World Wrestling Federation and we would end up going to Cards when we were on the road. And Bill Root who played in Nova Scotia as well as with the Maple Leafs, who didn't, you know, play a great deal in the NHL. But so many of these guys, it would be easier to pick two or three that you thought were real jerks.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, do that.

[Joe Bowen]

I'm not going to pick them or air them on this program, so don't even think about that.

[Biz Nasty]

Don't worry, we'll do the hot mic at the end of this thing.

[Joe Bowen]

No you won't.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Fighting in the bench brawls were a little bit more prevalent back in the day. Can you remember some that really stood out to you where you're like, oh my God, this is turned into a three ring circus. Maybe even players entering the crowd at some point.

[Joe Bowen]

Johnny Cordick was front and center on a bunch of those. Of course, the great Felix Patva Hextall bout that I, we none of us knew that Felix could fight. Neither did Hackstahl because he ended up getting his doors blown off. I'll give you one fast story if I can.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I love this shit.

[Joe Bowen]

All right, we're in Chicago. And there a brawl breaks out. I think Bobby McGill is in the middle of it, and it's over in the area. And for some ungodly reason, Wendell's not involved. And so anyway, all of a sudden, big Steve Smith comes over. He's 66 or whatever it is. And whatever he said to Wendell, Wendell never discussed fighting. The discussion was two right hands before any word of mouth was ever. That's the way he could win fights, because he wasn't a big man. Anyway, he's got Smith down on the ice and he's just hammering him. And none of the officials have come over. And Wendell would stop, look around, all right, Back he'd go. So anyway, they finally get it all broken up, whatever, and we come down after the game, we walk down the 97 stairs from the stadium, and we get there, and the dressing rooms were underneath the rink, so you had to walk up to come up to the main area. And Les and Elma Clark have made the 3,000 kilometer drive from Kelvington, Saskatchewan, to go and see the game in Chicago. And they're there, and Wendell comes up and he's talking to his parents, and there's this shriek down the corridor. This woman is screaming at Wendell for beating up her son. And I'm going, oh, we're going to have a cat fight here. And I'm putting a lot of money on Alma because she is a big old farm girl from Saskatchewan. Grabs Wendell's hand. She grabs Wendell, said, wendell, did you hurt your hanny? And Mrs. Smith just gave it a 360 and headed the other way. There wasn't any cat fight, but I thought that was pretty neat.

[Peter Chiarelli]

That is unreal.

[Keith Yandle]

Good business decision by her for not trying to fight Mrs. Clark.

[Joe Bowen]

Oh, yes, I was a great business decision.

[Keith Yandle]

Were there any. Any beefs with any other TV color guys? Like when you guys are up in the, you know, the rafters of the building and especially in the old days.

[Joe Bowen]

No. I can remember one time when Dan Kelly was doing a game and Dan had a voice like mine that penetrated lead, and he would. They were doing a game in the old rink in New Jersey, the Continental Airlines, I guess it was called. And the broadcast positions were right in the seats, and the New Jersey broadcaster was at one side of the section and Dan was at the other. But Dan's voice was on their broadcast more than the other guy. And he came over and said to Dan, said, could you tone it down? You're all over my broadcast. And Dan just turned to him and said, well, finally they're hearing a good one. I never had any of that.

[Peter Chiarelli]

That's so good.

[Biz Nasty]

One guy that, unfortunately, I learned a lot more about him when he passed, but just a legend was Bor Salman, and I didn't. He probably was maybe on the back nine of his Leafs career as you got there, but what did you kind of learn about him and him as a person? I just didn't know until I really dug into it when he. When he passed was how tough he was and the beatings that he would take back in the day.

[Joe Bowen]

And the scariest thing I ever saw was when he got stepped on and his face was 100 stitches or whatever it was. Borea was one of the most unique athletes I think anybody has ever seen. He would not do anything in Sweden over the summer. He'd show up a couple of weeks prior to training camp, put the skates on, and here these guys have been working all summer, whatever, and on the ice, and he'd be the best player on the ice. Without having done him. He. He. He just. I. I don't think he had an ounce of fat on him. He was sinewy and. And just. And strong and. And. And just like farm strong, I guess, for the lack of a better term. And tough. Really tough. What he had to go through, he. He more than held his own against anybody. And Borea was a wonderful teammate and a wonderful individual and. God almighty. Taken way, way too soon.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Absolutely.

[Keith Yandle]

Did he get, like, you know, tested more just because he was a foreigner before there was a ton of guys? Oh, yeah.

[Joe Bowen]

Oh, sure. Oh, yeah, right. It was the chicken, Swede. It was. It was, you know, just. And he. He proved that the tap was a ridiculous connotation to even think about. And just a tremendous, tremendous player. Handled the puck so well, controlled the game. He just slowed it down or sped it up, depending on how he wanted to do it. And Sittler and company, they. They lived off of his abilities.

[Peter Chiarelli]

You already mentioned Jim Ralph. I actually reached out to him. You were telling the story about how you. You were first introduced to him at the Chicago Stadium there. And he. He reminded me of a story when you went to a preseason game for the Jays. And I'll just throw Lars and I just. That's the story. I want you to tee everybody out. He was howling, telling me via text.

[Joe Bowen]

In fairness, it was a day off, and we were into our cocktails a little bit at the Blue Jay spring training game, which I actually threw the pitch out, the first pitch out. We're sitting there, and I'm a strike.

[Biz Nasty]

You throw a strike.

[Joe Bowen]

Red Sox fan, right? I'm a Red Sox fan. Anyway, somebody they announced. Now batting for the Boston Red Sox, Lars Anderson. And I jokingly said, who would name their kid Lars? And the parents right in front of us turned around and Mrs. Anderson said, we want good name, good name. I'll bet he's a good player too.

[Biz Nasty]

Great name.

[Joe Bowen]

Yep, exactly.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yeah, that is too good.

[Joe Bowen]

You have one that doesn't smell as bad.

[Biz Nasty]

I got a question. Like, because players, you know, you, you, you get in slumps. It's, it's kind of peaks and valleys here and there. And for normal players, I guess, like, does that happen ever to announce. You ever have like, couple bad games in a row in your mind? Like, I didn't have my stuff tonight? Or is it, or is it different with what you do?

[Joe Bowen]

No, I, I, I, no, no, you, you, you do. Yeah, yeah. And you make mistakes. You misidentify a guy who scores a goal and you're going, you know, everybody does. It's, you know, and game 75 of things going nowhere. You know, you don't have the adrenaline flowing the way you would for game seven of the, of a series. So, Yeah, I don't, I don't think there's any broadcaster would say, oh, no, I. Sailing around here at full speed without any problems.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Now, what's worse, a slump or maybe forgetting your passport on a road trip?

[Joe Bowen]

Oh, no, because I forgot my passport. I left my wallet at home. Oh, man.

[Keith Yandle]

No ID. No ID.

[Joe Bowen]

And this is before 9 11, and we're going into Washington, and you, you make too many phone calls, Biz. Anyway, we're, we're flying. You're telling him, yeah, I'm flying into Washington. And we get to the thing and I said, I got nothing. I got no idea. I got nothing. He said, are you in the, the, the guide said, no, no, but I, I did. In my briefcase, which I did bring, I said, I have a business card and it has a caricature of me on it. The guy looks and he says, you got to be telling the truth. Okay, go ahead. Meanwhile, we got Alpo Suhonen as one of our assistant coaches. He's two guys down from me at a different kiosk. He's pulling paper out of his ear, and he's there for 20 minutes. We're waiting on the bus. And when he got on, I said, alpo, here. Here's one of my business cars.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Oh, the pre 911 days were wild. You could just walk into any country.

[Joe Bowen]

Oh, sure, you could, yeah, yeah.

[Biz Nasty]

After the games on the road because you, you then you'd be flying out the next morning, right? When everyone's flying commercial. Would it, would it be the hotel lobby bar and you get together and just talk about the game or was it always out to a big dinner?

[Joe Bowen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Biz Nasty]

Same as the players.

[Joe Bowen]

Yeah, absolutely. And, and, and I mean the players weren't allowed in the hotel lobby that you were staying at, but didn't take long to figure out where most of them were or whatever if you wanted to go out with them. But I mean, we hung around with the coaches, Mo mostly and, and the staff and whatnot. So it was all good.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Do you have a particular game that you look back to and you're like, that was my, my favorite game I ever got to call. Like, that is easily number one. Maybe it involved like a special moment. Moment where like the birth of your kid was on the same day or like something crazy like that?

[Joe Bowen]

No, I always say biz, I haven't made it yet. I was hoping that maybe would be this year, but the lads had better get their shite together here in order to get where we need to go. So we'll see how that works up. I mean, at past ones. You know, the, the. The game in Los Angeles that ended up having Doug Gilmore cut and by Gretzky. And it didn't happen. Every Leaf fan will go to its. Their grave saying that that was the one that, the chance that we had. And I fully believe that. And that one I'll remember forever.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I remember where I was when that happened. I was. My parents, they were in Collingwood visiting friends. And I was watching it. Yeah, they were out for dinner and I was watching on TV like, I'll never forget where I'm like, he's bleeding. Like he, he caught him.

[Joe Bowen]

Oh, and, and the worst thing was when I walked out to parking lot, the officials were there and I've known Carrie Fraser or whatever and I said, Carrie, how did, how did you miss that? And one of the linesmen said the puck hit him. And I said, what did he do? Dive on it? Because, you know, and. But there was no replay, There was no recourse. And, and I know Kerry feels horrible about it and he's reminded of it probably almost daily if he's around. For sure, for sure.

[Peter Chiarelli]

The other one. What was the other one? I just had quickly. Oh God, I just drew a blank. Help me out here.

[Biz Nasty]

You've done so many more radio, but like, did you like that more than tv? Because you mentioned It's a little easier to do tv, right?

[Joe Bowen]

My bank manager really enjoyed tv.

[Peter Chiarelli]

You got.

[Joe Bowen]

You guys know what that means. You're making peanuts in this little radio gig you have here. But, ah, now we're on the tv. Now we're working. Now we're working full time.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I remembered the question. So we had Bob McKenzie on and at the time he had wrote an article basically saying how it looked like, you know, Gretzky was fading a little bit. He was carrying around a piano on his back. Did you end up reading those comments and were you a little bit like, oh, shit.

[Biz Nasty]

Like, no, Paul, no, let him sleep.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I hope he didn't spark this guy. Like, was everybody in the arena aware of that? He said that and that Wayne was.

[Biz Nasty]

Going to pop off.

[Joe Bowen]

I don't think everybody was aware of it, but, but you became quickly aware of it once it started to circulate. And I mean, and you know, of all of the things to do, get the greatest player in the history of the game pissed. And he, he put on a clinic. He put on a clinic at the Gardens in game seven. It was. That was frightening. That was frightening.

[Keith Yandle]

Another one of your calls. And obviously the holy Mackinac is the top echelon, but the one when they scored and you said, God bless you, boys. Was that just out of being a pure fan or was it 10 overtimes and you just wanted to go home? Or like, what's the story behind it.

[Joe Bowen]

Was they were hanging on by their thumbs. I mean, hanging on by. Alex McGilney was blocking shots.

[Biz Nasty]

Wow.

[Joe Bowen]

He didn't go into the hall of Fame because he was a shot blocker, I'll tell you that. But he was. I mean, it was just. They were hanging on and just hanging on by their thumbs and it was. And, and forced to Game seven. And then of course, they, they, they both blew the doors off the Senators and the return match in Toronto. So. Yeah. You know what people say, well, do you think ahead of time what you would say? And I know it just comes out of the recesses of your mind and, and whatnot. Even sometimes I actually sing. Not, not very well. But hey, that's another story for another time. Yeah.

[Peter Chiarelli]

The movie Youngblood, you were in it starred, starred in the movie Youngblood. Take us through that. Like, did you get to hang out on set for quite a while? Like, like, take us through that whole experience.

[Joe Bowen]

They needed a play by play announcer, so they had me sit in the press box at St. Mike's and a bunch of the other ranks for about a week without me doing anything. The Olympics were on. So I got to watch the Olympics from la. But I was paid as a principal actor, and I was buying a house very shortly thereafter. So every day I'm going, no, don't worry about me. I'll just sit here and collect money. And then I did about 10 minutes of play by play, and I don't even know if it ever got in the movie. But there, if you stay around long enough, the credits go by and my name's on it. Then I got to meet the guys and Rob Lowe and then of course, Stumpy Thomas and Mike Palmer's brother and a bunch of the guys that were playing the, the, the hockey players. It's, it's a great time for them. And then it, the movie has stood the test of time, I think.

[Keith Yandle]

Oh, yeah.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Was it the tea with Ms. McGill? Was that, did you get to meet her?

[Joe Bowen]

I'm gonna say I didn't. A very attractive young lady.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Biz Nasty]

What a movie I see behind you. Is that a poster of the, the Paul Henderson the Sub, the Summit series?

[Joe Bowen]

Yeah. And, and I'm gonna have to run here, guys, but I, I will tell you this story. I, I, I finished playing hockey last year. Played up till I was 73 playing goal, but. And the 25th anniversary of the Team Canada event, Ronnie Ellis phoned me and said, joe, would you like to play in the, the reunion game at the gardens 25 years to the day of game eight? Have you play five minutes in the game and then stick around and do a minor hockey shootout? I said, I'd love to do that. Are you kidding me? I was like a kid in a candy store. I roared into the dressing room two hours ahead of game time, sitting next to Dennis hall and Bill White, and we get. And Mike Palmiture is going to play goal because Eddie Johnston, Tony Esposito, and Ken Dryden weren't playing goal anymore. So my goalie partner was Palmy. And I thought, this is great. So I'm at the end of the bench. I'm just, I'm like a kid in a candy store. Three, four minutes goes on, and Palmy's doing two pad stacks over here and over there, just vintage Mike Palmitir. Puck goes the other end, and he starts waving at the bench. And Bill White's sitting next to me, and he says, I think he wants you to go in. I said, I'm not supposed to go in for another hour and a half. No, no, no, he's waving at you. Well, the Puck goes back the other end. Now Palmy's headed for the bench. He says, you better get your mask on. You're going in. He gets to the bench. I jump over, we change on the fly. I get into the net. End of the period, I skate over. I said, michael, what's going on here? He said, oh, I'm having both my knees operated on to my. Tomorrow, tomorrow. I said, what the hell are you doing here? Oh, I would never have missed this for the life. So he was excited, as excited as anybody. I stopped Daryl Sitler three times. We won six, four. And sit wouldn't talk to me for two.

[Peter Chiarelli]

What a way to end this. That's awesome. I got one last one before you go. Like, just reflecting on your entire career, like, are you a little bit like nervous to retire? Like, you know, it's, it's, it's always nice having a purpose and get to go to the rink and call these games and be a part of something. Like, you think about what it's going to be like maybe when you're not doing it.

[Joe Bowen]

Well, I've got three grandkids that I'm going to spend a lot of time with. Guys, as I mentioned, I want to be really active with the, with the alumni and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that maybe David Charles Bowen will get a looked at being able to do some of the games too.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah, he's Sudbury.

[Joe Bowen]

Yes, he is. He's doing the Wolves up there now. So he's, and he's, he's really good. He's certainly going to apply. But no, I, I'll, I'll have lots to do and I'll look forward to it and we'll have some fun with the guys and I get to sit in the alumni booth every once in a while and have a Crown Royal and Diet Coke or 10.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yeah, just don't be chirping players names. You might have their folks.

[Joe Bowen]

No, no, no, no, no. I will never do that. Never do that.

[Biz Nasty]

Hey, Joe, you have, you have made given so many people joy like I can't imagine. You got to be number one all time for muting the TV and putting the radio broadcast lined up with the game and, and even listening to you and hearing goal calls. It's been incredible my whole life here in Leaf skull. So congrats on everything.

[Joe Bowen]

Thank you very much guys. Really appreciate it. Yep, it's, it's always fun. Oh, it'll be spun.

[Peter Chiarelli]

This is the spark we needed.

[Joe Bowen]

There you go.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Are going to go on a run.

[Joe Bowen]

Starts here.

[Biz Nasty]

Sorry Joe.

[Joe Bowen]

Yeah, exactly.

[Biz Nasty]

Make a fight for April. You can make a fight for April 12th. April 12th. See you later.

[Joe Bowen]

Thanks, guys.

[Biz Nasty]

Quickly, guys. I want to mention DraftKings and talk about all the jaw dropping moments that make hockey hockey. The special goals, the special skills, saves, the fights, the breakaways, the overtime, three on three action. Experience all of them with the DraftKings Sportsbook, unofficial sports betting partner of the NHL and Missouri. Listeners, listen up. DraftKings Sportsbook is now live in the Show Me state. It's been live for a couple weeks. People are loving it. They got to get the blues going. That's what DraftKings is going to do in Missouri. Get the blues going. The DraftKings sportsbook keeps the excitement on ice at full speed. From player props to live in game betting, you're never far from the action. And new customers. This one is for you. Bet just $5 and if your bet wins, you'll get $200 in bonus bets instantly. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app and use code Chiclets. That's Code chiclets to turn five bucks into $200 in bonus bets. If your bet wins in partnership with DraftKings, the Crown is yours.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler in New York, call 877-8-HOPE-HY.

[Keith Yandle]

Or text hopeny47 In Connecticut, help is available.

[Peter Chiarelli]

For problem gambling.

[Keith Yandle]

Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino and Resort in Kansas.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Pass through of per wager tax may apply in Illinois, 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction.

[Keith Yandle]

Void.

[Peter Chiarelli]

In Ontario, restrictions apply.

[Keith Yandle]

Bet must win to receive bonus bets which expire in seven days.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Minimum odds required. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources.

[Keith Yandle]

See DKN limited time offer.

[Biz Nasty]

Guys, as we come into the Christmas season, the holiday season, everyone knows it's full on Hockey season now, there's nothing like it. The action, the cold airs. You walk into the rink. The roar of the crowd, the breakaway goal, the hit. It's all electric. Everyone knows if you've been to a hockey game, you'll never forget it. But getting into the game can be a pain in the ass. That's another story. All the time you got cues, you got price jumps. You're getting logged out mid click. You're just trying to get a ticket to go see your favorite team play. You just want to be there with a beer, yelling and screaming, cheering on your favorite player. And game time makes it so easy to have that happen. The Game Time app gives the advantage back to the fans. It's the hack for unlocking amazing tickets and experiences in a few taps. It's incredibly easy to use and the Game Time guarantee means you can Trust you'll get 100% authentic tickets on time and at the best price. No worrying about if these are fugazi. Nope, not with the Game Time guarantee. Fees are always included also. So what you see is what you pay. No more at checkout. Add in another 50 bucks. No, no, no, no, no. The price is what you think it is. What you see is what you pay. And right now for tonight, the Montreal Canadiens are in Boston. That's a big time game. An amazing rivalry. Both teams having hell of a seasons under 200. Right now to get into the building in the Garden to see the Canadians take on the Bruins. Take the guesswork out of buying NHL tickets with Game Time. Download the Game Time app, create an account, use code Chiclets for 20 off. Your first purchase terms apply. Again, create an account and redeem code C H I C L e T S for 20 off. Download the game Time app today. Thank you very much to Joe Bowen. Awesome guy. Guy was rattled. Notre Dame didn't get the look for the College Football Playoff. He had that shirt on. He started fuming when we brought it up. But an awesome dude. Going to enjoy getting to hear some of his final calls the rest of this year till the regular season ends. Biz a run and a half for this guy. So congratulations.

[Keith Yandle]

Do it for Joe. Do it for Joe. Toronto.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yeah. That fucking Bengal. That's what I was just going to say. I mentioned, you know, changing the suits and the dress code. You'll look presentable when you come to the rink, like you're fucking ready to work. How about doing it for someone other than yourself? How about doing it for the guy who's been calling games for 43 years in his final year now to make it 44? I mean, fuck, man, this guy puts more time and energy than anyone in that organization right now. Let's fucking do it for Joe, boys.

[Keith Yandle]

Or at least get him some chrome heart jeans.

[Biz Nasty]

Yes, very true. Imagine Joe rocking those $80,000 Chrome Hearts. That could be what gets them going. Somebody could buy them for him on the Leafs. They're making plenty of money. Shitty news for Carolina. I don't know if you saw when Jarvis got hurt. Typical Seth Jarvis, driving the net 40 miles an hour. And look, my guess would be broken ribs. He hit the post flying and he's out week to week. I think it said or multiple weeks. And Jacob Slavin's back out. He's out week to week too. So tough injuries there. Jarvis has been incredible for them. Standard Carolina Hurricanes in leading their division. Just, just plotting along. They'll be ready to go in the playoffs, but I don't know if that affects the injury to, to, I mean for Jarvis with the Olympics. I hope not. Yeah, and, and slaving for Team usa.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, I, I think, I think also too just the injuries, they're, they're not a team like if they're missing one or two guys, they're not affected as much as like whatever say Jersey, you know, if Jersey's missing, you know, Hughes, like you're going to notice it. Like Carolina is not really one of those teams. Like they win by committee. I think they'll be fine. They'll still, they'll still win their games. But yeah, Slaving for USA like that would be a huge loss for USA not having him such a good shutdown. D man can play against anybody and we need, we need him against Canada.

[Biz Nasty]

He's only played five games this year too and he's based back out injured. Sucks. Sucks for him. You know, even when he does come back, if it's before Olympics, you know, you want to, you want to be playing. You want your legs underneath you and figure everything out. And we mentioned quickly the, with Joe, the clip that, that clip of the Philadelphia play by play guy saying, would you, would you mind. What do you say? Would you blow me? That's one of the funniest clips I've ever heard in my life.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Like he could play it.

[Biz Nasty]

Can we play it? Can we play it now? They're going to take the TV timeout. We'll take it as well. Seven gone in the third. It's three, two Buffalo in the Philadelphia four Flyers broadcast network. While you're down there, would you mind blowing me? I think we're still on the air, Tim.

[Joe Bowen]

No, we're not. Are we?

[Biz Nasty]

I. When that thing broke, I, I, I, I listened to it five times. I laughed harder each time. Two game suspension. Fair take. Take a couple games off. Wasn't the end of the world. But as Joe said, I was like there was so much time between. He signed off for commercial it. He, I don't really blame the guy. I mean he just. Would you blow me? I mean, if you're down there, you mind blowing me? I mean the guy just was just, he was just chirping. He was just making, making people laugh in the middle of a long Season Flyers right now sitting in a playoff spot. Nobody saw that coming. He's happy. Would you. Hey, would you give me a Christmas blowy? I thought it was incredible. I just couldn't believe how much time went by. Obviously he thought they'd gone to commercial. He was set up, possibly by. Set up for failure. Two games off. No big deal.

[Peter Chiarelli]

As somebody who's been suspended by their team, when in. In media, I know the feeling. You know, you feel like you let people down, but at the end of the day, like you said, he didn't think he was on air. Simple joke. We all make jokes like that. Who gives a fuck? And I hope he gets to enjoy his holiday. And it's still. Hopefully he's still getting paid while he's off for the two games. That's what I most care about because he deserves a little break over the Christmas holidays.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah, I agree with you as well.

[Peter Chiarelli]

And if he ain't getting it at home, hopefully he gets a blowy. He was obviously a horny guy.

[Biz Nasty]

He was talking to Fedora. He's like, I think we're still on air. Fridge. What a guy. I watched that Jake Paul Anthony Joshua fight. Credit to the guy, Jake Paul, for making that much money. And like, I just couldn't. I was like, this is so bad. It was so bad. And, and you know, I think he said after, yeah, my jaw's broken. I'm probably going to go back to my. My normal weight class in terms of my next fight. But I was like, oh, my God, I watched this fight. It's just he was kind of like down on the ground the whole time, like wrapping the guy up. It's only a matter of time. Did either one of you see that fight?

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, I watched it and honestly, like, I don't. I'm not a Jake Paul fan, but credit to him for fighting a monster like Anthony Joshua. He's humongous. He's a trained killer. So credit to him for fighting it. Besides the. Him grabbing his legs and all that shit, like, if he's going to win that boxing match, he has to run around and not get hit and, you know, hopefully catch him with one. Like, if that's your game plan, I get it. But Anthony Joshua, like, if you're like, he was a heavyweight champion, he should be able to close off the ring, get him in a position where he wants and just fucking mow him down. Down.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Oh, I think that there was probably a conversation pre fight about how long that thing needed to last. Yeah, that's the kind of Biggest joke about it all, like, credit the guy. I want to say, Jake Paul made 100 million bucks, right?

[Biz Nasty]

Is that what he good?

[Peter Chiarelli]

Somebody. Somebody said $92 million, so. Yeah. And so. But it's all just a. It's. It's what. What this has done is it's exposed boxing a lot.

[Keith Yandle]

It's. It's almost a black eye for boxing. All this because they're the ones getting all the pay per view. I was a boxing guy before the U. But like, the boxing pay per views and the names, they're just not there. And like, now everyone's watching a YouTuber, like, that's the main event. Like, what are we doing?

[Peter Chiarelli]

Yeah, it's a joke. No, I don't. I. I don't. I don't give it my oxygen. I don't watch those fights. I don't buy them. Like, I'm not. I'm not getting sucked.

[Keith Yandle]

Well, it was on Netflix. I was watching it.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Oh, it was on yet? Okay.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Biz Nasty]

I love you guys.

[Peter Chiarelli]

So if you're already. Guys, so if you're already subscribed, you just get that for free.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Okay, well, then that's genius. I thought you had to do like a pay per view buy or something.

[Keith Yandle]

No.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Okay, so show us how much I know that I literally give it no oxygen.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah, you know, you're not. You have no interest. I hear what you're saying.

[Keith Yandle]

Smart, but.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Well, you tell me. How brutal was the fight?

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, it was. It was sloppy.

[Biz Nasty]

It wasn't brutal. It wasn't good. But would any single person listening or any of you guys not do that for 95 million? Like, you're not. He's probably not going to kill you unless the ref decides to. Like, if he. Ivan Dragos, and just continually tees off on you as Rocky's yelling, throwing the damn towel. Or the trainers yelling, throwing the damn towel. 95, you're walking away. Broken jaw. 95 million. I don't think there's a person that's saying no to that. So. Good for him. Good for him, guys. Love you, boys. Have a great Christmas. Anything you celebrate, I hope you enjoy it. I hope you take time, you appreciate your family and enjoy yourselves. Christmas Eve is always a blast. Christmas Day, if you got little kids, very special. And we'll be back next week. We will not be two episodes a week this week, but we will see you Tuesday. That would be December 30th back in action. We'll talk to you then.

[Peter Chiarelli]

Peace.

[Biz Nasty]

Won't happen.

[Keith Yandle]

Won't happen again.

[Biz Nasty]

It won't happen. Won't happen. Won't happen again. A bad habit worth breaking. But it's taking time.

[Peter Chiarelli]

I don't know.

[Biz Nasty]

It don't matter. It's going to happen. It's going to happen again.