Spittin' Chiclets Episode 629: Featuring Mark Howe

Summary

Spittin’ Chiclets Episode 629: Featuring Mark Howe

Date: March 17, 2026
Hosts: Ryan Whitney, Paul Bissonnette (Biz), Rear Admiral (RA), Mike Grinnell
Special Guest: Mark Howe

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into all things hockey and beyond with the signature humor and irreverence of the Spittin’ Chiclets crew. The first half of the episode features buzzing updates on the hosts' adventures (from Biz’s gnarly dental tales to wild fan interactions) and lively debates on everything from minor league atmospheres to the evolving NHL playoff format. The latter half welcomes Hockey Hall of Famer Mark Howe for a deep, heartwarming, and often hilarious conversation packed with incredible stories about Gordie Howe, family, and the evolution of hockey.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Biz’s Dental Drama & Minor League Hockey Stories

Timestamps: 00:40–21:25

• Biz’s Teeth Fiasco: Biz recounts losing his bridge after a recent broadcast, describing his "homeless man crackhead" smile.
  • “If you smell what’s been glued into the top of your gums...smells.” (04:10, Biz)
• Minor League Adventures: Biz details his time with the Greensboro Gargoyles, including:
  • Taking the team out for post-game food
  • The relentless hospitality and energy of southern hockey fans, even for a last-place team (07:00–08:30)
  • Praising coach Birdie, a cancer survivor and local legend, and the community’s embrace during “cancer night”
• Eccentric Local Heroes: Shout-outs to the multi-talented local radio announcer Casey Ditzel, who calls games, sharpens skates, and wins pie-eating contests—all in the same night (10:22–11:41).
• Locker Room and Mascot Lore: Hilarious story of confusion involving player Braden Doyle and mascot Doyle, with video-worthy mishaps and classic minor league chaos.

2. Family Connections & USHL Talk

Timestamps: 12:08–14:52

• Yan’s nephew Colin gets called up to the USHL, and the hosts discuss the nuances of player movement, coaching, and the energy of junior barns.
• Player development mirrored by elite NHLers' kids drawing “next generation” buzz.

3. Passionate Baseball Detours: WBC Semifinals

Timestamps: 21:09–28:09

• Whit and Keith describe witnessing the "top 5 sporting event" of their lives at the USA vs Dominican Republic World Baseball Classic semi-final in Miami.
  • “80%, if not 90%, Dominican fans. These people are so passionate, so insane...” (21:28, Whit)
• Vivid recounting of the in-stadium energy, merchandise misadventures, and new rules like the challenge system.
• Sidebar: Predictions—robot umps could lead to a record-breaking home-run season in MLB.

4. NHL’s Gudas Hit Fallout: Culture, Accountability, and Team Response

Timestamps: 29:19–44:22

• The panel dives into Radko Gudas’s controversial knee-on-knee hit on Auston Matthews.
• Criticisms of the Maple Leafs’ “no response” culture and what that means for the team’s direction and identity.
  • “To me, it's a bad look. If you want to be a winner…you have to come out of your comfort zone and show courage.” (37:10, Biz)
• Exploration of appropriate suspension lengths and the difficulties of Department of Player Safety decisions.
  • “That's the worst job in the league...you are pissing every side off.” (43:10, Whit)

5. Around the League: Playoff Races, Player Notes, and Fun Stats

Timestamps: 53:06–54:28, 140:44–161:43

• Shout-outs to Brent Burns on his ironman streak, Kopitar breaking the LA points record, and other standout moments.
• Extended debate over NHL playoff seeding, the need for fairer rewards, and calls to experiment with “1 through 8” or “play-in” models (145:13–153:42).
  • “You could have the second and third place teams in the overall standings, and you’re starting the playoffs on the road—ridiculous.” (147:03, Biz)
• The San Jose Sharks and Macklin Celebrini: Sensational rookie play, MVP talk, and his pro-ready playoff game.
  • “If they get in the playoffs, he’s MVP in my mind.” (154:18, Whit)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Gordie Howe’s legacy:
  “Hearing Mark talk about his father, you completely understand why Gretzky was obsessed with Gordie and why he was his idol.” (50:09, Biz)
• On the state of the Maple Leafs’ locker room:
  “I want to be so proud of the team I’m watching…where maybe they lose second or third round, but they’re going down with a fight, blood on their jerseys, and the yacht club rocking.” (38:22, Biz)
• On Minor League Hockey’s quirks:
  “This guy’s a Hall of Fame broadcaster—calling the game, sprinting down to the concourse for a hit, sweating his dick off, then winning the pie eating contest.” (10:46, Biz)
• On family and hockey:
  “Without a doubt, the backbone of the Howe family was my mother, Colleen. She was his strength…you can’t replace family.” (135:00, Mark Howe)

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Feature Interview: Mark Howe

Timestamps: 55:31–135:43

Key Themes & Stories

Gordie Howe: The Man, the Myth, the Legend

• Early Life & Example: Mark underscores Gordie’s work ethic (hauling 80-lb cement bags as a kid), humility, and relentless dedication to fans.
  • “He never refused an autograph. He said, ‘Those are the people paying my salary. I owe it to them.’” (67:45, Mark)
• Parenting Philosophy: The Howes valued independence; Mark and his siblings learned by doing, not by being micromanaged.
• On-Ice Violence & Respect:
  • Hilarious tales of Gordie immediately asserting dominance in WHA games.
  • “He two-handed this guy—split his forehead. Five minutes in, another challenger…Gordie flattened him too.” (83:32, Mark)
  • Anecdotes about Gordie’s ability to create time and space via intimidation, and meticulous advice he gave teammates like Tim Kerr (“drop your glove, smoke the guy on national TV, buy yourself more time…”).

Mark’s Playing Career

• Position Switch Star: Originally a winger, Mark transitioned to defense in the WHA/NHL merger and “never looked back.”
• Defensive Mastery: Insights into learning from Eddie Van Impe about positioning, reading attackers, and how playing with smart partners propelled his career.
• Nature of Team Success: Philly Flyers culture of accountability, leadership from owner Ed Snider, and carrying on team-first values.
• Career-Ending Injury: Honest reflection about suffering a gruesome injury (being “skewered” on the net) and the old-school mentality of rushing back at the cost of long-term health.

Family, Legacy, and Giving Back

• Gordie’s Retirement and Afterlife: Stories about Gordie’s struggle to step away at age 52, his devotion to caring for Colleen as she battled dementia, and the lasting impact of tight family bonds.
• Charity and Community: Mark’s ongoing work with the Howe Foundation, raising over $500,000 for youth and Alzheimer’s causes, and honoring his mother’s legacy of giving back.

Highlight Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “One day in Houston, Dad looked at Marty and I and said, ‘This game’s not meant to be this fun.’” (86:38, Mark)
• “His actions spoke volumes…on the ice, in the locker room, never had anything to say. He just led by example.” (91:27, Mark)
• “I know my dad gets so much credit, but without a doubt, the backbone was my mother, Colleen. She was his strength.” (135:00, Mark)
• “Gordie led by example, but Colleen was the backbone in the family. You can’t replace family. That’s what life’s all about.” (135:08, Mark)
• “My father... without question, the foundation of this league was built off the backs of guys like Gordie Howe.” (50:09, Biz)

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Notable Segments & Timestamps

• Start of Episode/Opening Banter: 00:40
• Biz’s Teeth & Minor League Tales: 01:33–11:41
• Doyle Mascot Story: 15:00
• Fan Energy in Minor League Hockey: 07:00–10:22
• USHL Family Discussion: 12:08–14:52
• WBC Baseball Experience: 21:09–28:09
• Gudas Hit Reaction/Leafs Culture: 29:19–44:22
• Transition to Mark Howe Interview: 54:28–55:31
• Mark Howe Interview: 55:31–135:43
• Brent Burns/Kopitar Milestones: 141:18–146:09
• NHL Playoff Format Debate: 145:13–153:42
• Closing Stories and Shoutouts: 174:08–178:53

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Tone & Style

• Unfiltered, irreverent, and personal: True to form, the Chiclets crew blends brash humor, self-deprecation, and heartfelt respect, especially in moments discussing family, tradition, and the hard truths of professional hockey.
• Mix of inside jokes and real talk: Players’ stories are balanced by earnest appreciation for the game’s legends and the communities that sustain hockey at every level.

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Final Takeaways

• Hockey is family: Both in the locker room and at home, the theme of brotherhood and support runs deep.
• Legacy matters: From Gordie Howe’s humility to Mark’s lifelong commitment, this episode radiates respect for those who built the sport’s foundation.
• Sport is changing—debate is healthy: Whether it’s playoff formats, disciplinary standards, or how fans connect with teams, the episode emphasizes that open debate and adaptation are vital.
• Have fun, give back: Everything from the antics of minor league mascots to multi-generational charity efforts shows the joy and responsibility players feel in sharing the game with the world.

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Essential listening for any hockey fan, this episode is both a love letter to the sport’s past and a raucous celebration of all that makes hockey, and its people, unique.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, Spit and Chiclets listeners. You could find every episode on Apple Podcasts and Spotify prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Me and Ryan have been officially welcomed to the jungle that is Barstool sports.

[B]

I brought it toward the coyotes and I asked them if it was okay if I joined the Spit Chicklets podcast full time.

[C]

Ryan, Whitney's got a pink Whitney out there now. The song commander is a full time. Remember Marley just got an assist from Chris.

[D]

Whoa. We're buzzing right now.

[C]

What is going on, folks? Welcome to episode 629. This is.

[B]

Oh, is that Oshi?

[C]

No, that's not Yoshi.

[D]

Yoshi.

[C]

That's Yoshi. That's not Yoshi. That's my mom's dog, Cosette. That is going nuts. This could be an issue, but I very. I apologize, everyone.

[D]

Last dog issue was not good and Big Dan was there. So this the. The.

[C]

Oh, she gave me a bully st. Give her if she starts barking. Cosette, I'm talking. You can't be yelling. I'm sorry, guys.

[B]

Speaking of, I'm bothered by that name than the. Than the Barkin, to be honest. Cosette. That's such a bizarre name for a dog.

[C]

No, I was like, what is Cosette?

[D]

Better be like the street she grew up on.

[B]

Give her some Pink Whitney.

[C]

She calls her like cetti confetti cassette. Boys. I'm way. I'm way. This is not.

[B]

You're on your heels back in moto.

[C]

Well, speaking of minus three, those teeth right now you're minus three teeth because

[D]

you said has better teeth.

[B]

Four. Four teeth.

[D]

Cosets are better than yours.

[C]

I mean, that. That middle one, that is just a little baby dolphin tooth is so. And then that little one. Oh my God, you look like just a straight up homeless man crackhead. And. And let's quickly mention Pink Whitney and we'll get into this amazing game Keith and I got to be a part of on Sunday night. Pinkies up, boys. Pinkies up. There's Pink Whitney ever. I'm in Florida. I've been here since Thursday night. Benny's on the west coast now I'm on the east coast. Last night, Pink Whitney was representing at Lone Depot Stadium. I believe it was where the Marlins play. That was host of the United States of America versus the Dominican.

[B]

I saw Marlin's man crushing a few pink Whitneys.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. So people, one guy came up to me and he was Dominican guy too, which was 80 Dominican fans and just ripped up the little pink. I said, oh, you Follow spit and check us. Pink Whitney man. Pink Whitney love Hawk love Pink Whitney. I said, holy Pinky's up. And I taught him. He didn't know Pinky's up yet. He doesn't listen to the pod, I guess. I mean, he might just say he does, but he doesn't listen because he doesn't know Pinky's up. So shout out Pink Whitney. Shout out everyone who loves drinking and shout out business teeth. They just look that bad that only a Pink Whitney could make him feel better right now.

[B]

I should make new ones out of little the pink Whitney nips and just put like, maybe even like the. The caps. The little caps on each of the tooth.

[C]

So what happened?

[B]

Oh, okay. So, like, here. Here's my bridge. So, like, what happened is, like, obviously from. From getting my face caved in because I didn't listen enough to Dennis Bondi Asians told you last podcast and I'd get my pushed in. And they had to eventually file a few of them down in order to make this bridge. And you could on the one side.

[D]

Which ones did they file?

[B]

What?

[D]

Which ones did they file down?

[B]

You're a idiot.

[C]

Why didn't you just get the veneers?

[B]

Because. Because you have to, like, get the, like the drill metal implants.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And it takes a little bit of time, and I just, like. I don't know. I just never really had the time right.

[C]

So I'm gonna listen is so good, guys. Oh, my God. Wyatt's just hearing you say he's like, who else has my guy?

[B]

I sound like I'm on stream yard for my phone again when all the fans about my life. But yeah, no, and the glue is just coming loose. And sure enough, after the broadcast last night, I was like, playing around with it and boop. Fell out. So I'm on the IR with no jibs for hopefully only a few days till I get back. And. And somebody can glue these bad boys back in, but kind of smells like. Yeah, smells.

[A]

Oh. Oh, man.

[C]

Yeah, dude. If you smell what's been glued into the top of your gums, I'm.

[D]

I'm guessing that's just smells like Houston's smells.

[C]

Just a salad.

[B]

Hey, let me turn my air conditioning off. Give me two seconds, you guys. You guys can keep chatting.

[C]

Okay. Yeah, we'll keep chatting away. We'll keep chatting.

[D]

Does he have to go on TV again with those teeth like that?

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

Did I just go the whole playoffs?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, no jibs.

[C]

He's like that.

[D]

Hughes has gotten so Much attention for the no teeth. I'm doing it now.

[C]

Yeah, man, I'm sick and tired of this. I thought Tate McCray was a secret agent, but I'm gonna rip my teeth out. Maybe I could take it.

[B]

I have to update my riot profile. I can't be catfishing people. Right? You got to be. You got to be truly who you are and present yourself as. They're going to meet you in public. So, yeah, for all the ladies out there,

[C]

you could just solely go body

[D]

picks, go see one east coast league game, and that's what you come back as.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, man. That was.

[C]

Honestly, buddy, that video you sent. Describe the video. I mean, it was so good.

[B]

Okay, okay, okay.

[C]

Poor Doyle.

[A]

I love this guy.

[B]

Oh, I. Hey, so I. After the game, I took all the boys out to eat. They had a three and three, by the way, against Tori. The. They lost. They lost six. Three game one Saturday. They lost six nothing on Star wars night. I don't know how. We'll have g. Look up how they did Sunday. So they're playing a three and a two and a half.

[C]

If they gave up six again, boys, at 18 against on the weekend, you're there.

[B]

But I would go to war for these guys.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And. And birdie the coach, like legit legit. If somebody would have ran one of them and it would have got chippy, I would have dressed, I would have thrown the gear on. I might even fucking just come back next year and play in the coast. Just do the podcast. No tnt, and ride the bus and play on the coast. Okay, no offense, because I love everybody at tnt, but I got the itch to go again after grabbing dinner post and losing teeth. So. So we go. We went there. The reason I went back to partly is because the first time we went there, we did the sandbagger with Paige in the afternoon. You guys were obviously buckled. I was high on gummies. And we got to the game like right around puck drop. Watched it and then we had to get out of there because, you know, we had other shit that we had to do. So we never really got to go down and meet the team, meet the coach. So I wanted to go back on our behalf and say hi to the boys and. And it just so worked out. We could do the silly birthday thing so I could meet the season ticket holders and boys. I'm going to tell you, they were in dead last in the entire league. The Gargoyles. It's our. Listen. Hey, hey, don't laugh.

[C]

Well, it's funny because it's just. Buddy, we are just.

[B]

We're hoax, man. But hey, we're not going to be last next year because we're going to bring in a few ringers and they won.

[C]

They won Sunday. Sorry. Four to one.

[B]

Okay. Right.

[D]

Four to one.

[C]

That's a big dub. Of course, right when you left, they got a W.

[B]

I did leave. Yeah. But so I. I got to meet all the season ticket holders and, like, give them birthday cake and just thank them for being season ticket holders. Buddy. Every single person, like, reinforced and was like, thank you guys so much for bringing hockey back to Greensboro like they are, regardless of being in last place in the league. And even after the game, when I met with the boys, like, they talked about the support they've been feeling from the fans. They were down. They got. They got lit up one game a few weeks ago at home, they were down 4 nothing in the first period. Well, fucking. Normally you play for the Leafs, you're getting jerseys on the ice. You're getting booed going off the ice. Like, people are, wake the fuck up. These fans are on their feet cheering the boys on, like, encouraging them, hey, don't worry about it, you know, let's come out firing in the second period. Like, even the players are like, man, it's like, crazy. I've never seen anything like it. They're just so happy to have hockey back and they're so supportive and such good Southern hospitality. I was, like, blown away by not only just hearing that, but also getting to shake their hands and just seeing how excited they are. Like, obviously, year one, you have a little bit of grace and leeway, but they were just so, so appreciative of them getting hockey back. And rally. Rally is about an hour and a half away. So now they don't have to drive as far and maybe spend as much all the time if they want to get their hockey thick. So just to be there and see everybody and then of course, to meet the team and Birdie the head coach, man, just an unbelievable guy.

[C]

And, yeah, tell people who don't know what he's been through.

[B]

So he played for a while. I think he's a legend in. In. In Idaho. The Steelhead. Idaho Steelhead. I actually played a game there. We had an all star game there one year where when I was playing with Wheeling, we didn't normally go out west. Like, we didn't travel because, you know, obviously to cut costs and stuff like that. But he's like, you go to certain bars there. He's got his jersey up. Like, people Love him. He's like, he played with Lance Galbraith. He played with Jablonski. He. Remember when you. Blonsky signed with them in the coast and he fought ufc. They brought, like, some like. Like, it wasn't ufc, but it was like a lower level ufc, but it was an octagon. So Jeremy Oblonsky was playing in the coast and then fought in a sanctioned event, and he came out with, like, his jersey, and he was like one of his ring guys in between.

[D]

The first period with that was the

[B]

Internet instead of the schumal outfits. They fucking put an octagon in the middle and just went at it. But. But he's a legend. And. And he had brain cancer and he survived it. And now. And they actually had cancer. Like, the cancer night there on Saturday. And, like, they, like a big standing O. They brought down all the fans who had been through cancer and survived as well, and he got to shake all their hands. So that was a pretty cool thing. Although they got slaughtered. Six nothing. Way to go, boys. But. But just, like, unbelievable guy and like a throwback and a guy that we're gonna eventually get on the podcast and interview. We were supposed to early on, but the type of guy, like, I said, I met him and I'm like, fucking give me a pair of skates and give me some equipment. I want to. I want to run through a wall for this guy. So just a great overall weekend. Oh, fuck. I'm drawing a blank. If. Gee, if you could pull it up. The radio announcer is an absolute.

[D]

He's electric on Instagram.

[B]

Electric.

[C]

He is, by the way. They do everything, too. They don't just do the radio. They do the travel. They do the meals.

[A]

A.C. ditzel.

[B]

Casey Ditzel. This guy, bro.

[C]

Hey, like, NHL job someday. You're saying the suits, though.

[A]

He wears the crazy suits every game, too. He's unbelievable.

[C]

Yeah, it was Biz's birthday. Technicolor raincoats celebration.

[B]

But he's. He's doing the radio and then, like, next time he's like, we're gonna throw it down. We're gonna throw it down to the concourse for a hit. And, like, it's him down there. He's, like, sprinting down and then he's, like, sweating his dick off.

[D]

And he's as he's selling hot dogs.

[B]

As he's selling hot dogs, buddy. They go to an in period. Hit or no, sorry, it was in between periods and sharpening skates. No, but they had a pie eating contest and he fucking won the Pie eating contest. It was him and four. Just they had to put him in there just so they, they didn't have to give the free jersey away so

[C]

they knew he'd win it.

[B]

Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. He's in there. He's got the pink blazer on with the pink tie and he's mucking the, the pie and. And then like he has to go back up with pie on his face and call the rest of the game. Buddy. This guy is a. They should put him in the hockey hall of fame for that performance he put on the other night. So.

[C]

Oh, and Greensboro gives up another one and he's just like wiping apple pie off chin.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

We're going to.

[C]

Hey, what a weekend.

[B]

I'm going to go Bill Foley style. We're going to win the east coast championship in this, in our first five years of existence.

[D]

All right. All right.

[B]

I don't care if I got to put Yan's whole Sal on, on bringing in some Yance. You and you and Brian are going to be playing the point next year.

[D]

Perfect.

[B]

Yeah. I love actually your. Was it your nephew who ended up getting called up to the ushl?

[D]

Yeah. Yeah. So his, my, my nephew Colin, his, his high school season ended which must be a new thing with like you're able to leave after if you're drafted by USHL team you can go out and play. So he, he went out to Madison, Wisconsin, the Bob Suda Arena. Great old barn biz. Like I watched the games on tv. You would have loved this barn. But they're getting a new rink next year which is supposed to be unreal. Tom Gilbert's an assistant coach so. Great, great for my nephew calling to be learning from.

[B]

Playing in Edmonton with you, buddy.

[C]

I played with Tom Gilbert and I'm. He was nasty. Yeah, he was a nasty player. And like I think that was, I mean that was 2010, 11ish. He was kind of unreal analytically. I, I'm pretty sure like before it was a thing but he was like one of those guys under the hood guy early on. Like if he got the puck it was getting out of his own zone and never really got the respect he deserved. I mean he was on some bad Oilers teams but he. That's the perfect guy for Colin to like get coach. I don't know if Colin will be there next year or if he's going to go back to Cushing, but I watched the second game. Yeah, the rink sick. Two good stands on each side and then behind one of the nets it's awesome. It's like two different layers or two different, you know, a balcony and then some normal seats. Then behind the net there's nothing else. So I think nowadays ushl, you're looking for bigger and better. Next year they'll go to another one. But yeah, I was excited for him. And I'll tell you man, what us, the US national team was playing them both nights. The pace is crazy, man. Like you just, you kind of forget how good these 6, 617 calling 16, 16, 1718 year olds are. It was, it was good hockey.

[B]

How do you do?

[D]

He, he did great the first game. I think he was obviously a little nervous, but played simple, made good plays, but just wasn't like jumping up in the play as much as probably he would be in his normal thing like changing, you know, just being a good team. In the second game he ended up getting thrown out of the game for getting into a little tussle with the guys. And he said all the boys were loving it because he's like a 16 year old kid. But yeah, Matt Collins kid was on. I thought he was the best player on the ice. Number seven for the NDTP team. He was unbelievable.

[C]

Yeah, so he, I think he's going to be a first round pick. But the other son, he might have three boys if not four. His next son Joey is like the next US superstar. I believe he's a 2010 and I've already heard and seen some clips like I think that the next Joe like this Collins unrealized. I don't know. Is his name Wyatt? Not exactly sure. Gee, look it up quick. The one at the national team, that's the draft eligible this year but, and he's got a son Joey who is looking like a complete superstar. I don't know if he'll be on the U17 team next year but yeah, I was excited.

[A]

Wyatt is his name.

[C]

Yeah. So Wyatt Collin. Wyatt Collins.

[B]

I, I, I, I drew a blank here, boys. I forgot to tell the Doyle story.

[C]

Yeah man, I was, I was crying. So video and girls comment after I

[B]

got, I got sidetracked there because I I fucking the, the radio guy eating the pie, man, I was fucking losing my mind.

[C]

You had your cock ring on from your birthday party while doing the pie eating contest. I'm investing money in Shout out to

[B]

Doyle the mascot though. That guy works his absolute nuts off. And just like he was so good, it was great to celebrate my birthday with him. So we go there that first game and we show up and we're obviously aware that Doyle is the mascot. They had all the stuffed animals they sold out of those incredible marketing. The mascot looks unreal. So Yans is like, wait a minute, they got a player on the team. Last name Doyle too. Pretty good player. He's actually called up to the American League this year. I forget where he went to university. So obviously we were having a good time following this Doyle guy. Well, I, he, so this Doyle kid was still on the team. So I, I, I'm like, oh fuck, I gotta send a video with Doyle to the boys to let him know this guy's still on the team. And I start recording. No way. I just started recording and Doyle eats a minus. And I was howling, sending this to the group chat. And then after the game I just had to tell him when we were having food and the boys had, he took the piss grade. He had a good chuckle. I said, hey, I'm telling this on the pod. He's like, yeah, go ahead.

[C]

So but the best part was that Merle said after and I didn't even think of it. He's like, wait, because you know he's out there for the goal against. They didn't change. Merles is like, they don't even change after a goal against in the Ghost, which you don't see see often if pro hockey you get scored on like change.

[D]

You want to get off.

[C]

By the way, this is even more incredible. I just looked him up. Massachusetts kid played a year at bu, then went to Northeastern from Linfield, Massachusetts. Shout out Braden Doyle, who's just. Yeah, obviously. But he played in the AHL this year for Chicago. But when, when we're there, when business in the building, things don't go great

[B]

for with the first 10 minutes of the game he was dash two. He ended up finishing dash two. But I was just like, oh, but a classic Massachusetts guy can give it, but could probably also take it, right? We're talking about it now. So the automatic contract for next year.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

Sign them up. Carolina is going to give him a one way NHL deal, but he'd be playing in Greensboro. They got, hey, they got this like 6, 8 Russian goalie to this guy. This guy straight, straight out of the buddy.

[C]

When we were there we looked him up and he's a second rounder.

[B]

I think he's not, he's really wasn't playing and fifth round, fifth rounder. Sorry, fifth rounder. I gotta, I gotta get a, I gotta get this kid's name. His name's Ruslan Kazhayev.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

64-201-HE's from.

[C]

Yeah, okay. Okay. So, I mean, hey, Carolina, you know, Brandon Bussey's had this incredible year, but like, don't sleep on the fact that a 6 foot 4 5th round goalie who's worked a lot of goalies work their way up.

[B]

No, he's not going anywhere.

[D]

He's on the worst team in the league. League.

[A]

What are we talking about?

[C]

We're the only team. We're not letting him get called up.

[B]

Sorry, we're blocking that one. We got some say as to what go goes on. We got Doyle on a one way next year playing in the coast. And then this goalie is going to be a lifer.

[C]

He's got, he's got 0.8 goals against and a.980 save percentage.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm signing him, begging for him for the NHL.

[B]

So we're actually, we're not talking about NHL hockey anymore. We're strictly a coast podcast now.

[C]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

I was actually telling. I was on the Kachuk's podcast and they go, what's the, what's the craziest barn you played into the minors? And I've, I've talked about before Toledo. Yeah, Toledo had a building. It might have been like the second building ever built in hockey. This place was an absolute dump. You had no separation from the fans. When you were on the bench. You literally had to walk up the stairs onto the concourse to get in your locker room, which was a shoebox. It was like a closet in the concourse. The gla. The glass was like three feet high. So if you came around the net and you try to put one off the glass, there was a fan who had teeth like me. Like their whole, their whole fan section.

[C]

They had teeth like you before the game.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

And they had a heckler fan who would bring a megaphone and he would stand up and the megaphone would literally be right in your ear as you're taking face offs in the neutral zone. And this guy would be heckling the shit out of me the whole game to the point where we would have verbal art altercations, where Glenn Patrick would be like, biz enough. Like, this is crazy. Like the insults that were going back and forth, it was, it was out of this world. So the east coast, the Cheese Toast League is the best. And that was the building that had, I said, the second building ever created legit. I think the Zamboni, they had, it had like the. You know when they have like, like a little. When you make something and it has like a, like a, like A code on it. It was like.

[C]

It was Frank Zamboni's signature from making it.

[B]

Yeah. And I don't even think it was called a Zamboni. It was like. Like the ice cleaners before they even created Zambonis. It was like one of the first ones ever made. And I would say of the eight times I played in Toledo, the Zamboni broke down about three times where all the blue liquid would just spill out. Where we'd have to. We'd get delayed. We'd have to wait and then they'd try to, like, clean. So then they'd have like a pylon. Like a pylon in the middle of the ice, basically, while we were playing the rest of the game. So the Toledo Sports arena was built in 1947 and I was playing there in. In. Oh, I was probably there in like 0607.

[C]

Did they still. Do they still have a team?

[B]

Oh, yeah. They moved into a brand new building and they sell it out like every game. One of the. I think they have the best attendance in the coast year over year. And they're always competitive. It's a juggernaut. They're one of the. One of the most profitable teams in the coast.

[C]

So speaking of incredible fan bases. And we'll get into hockey and one of the lowest moments for the Toronto Maple Leaf since, you know, I don't know, since this podcast began, but we got to experience, Keith and I, last night, a top five sporting event of my life.

[B]

Wow.

[D]

I think it was one for me, buddy.

[C]

What biz. When you think of us, Canada at the Bell center last year. This was right there. And it was The Dominican Republic first team USA semifinals, World Baseball Classic in Miami. 80%, if not 90% Dominican fans. And these people are so passionate, so insane. It's all they got is baseball. I looked it up. 11 million people in Dominican. Their lineup is. Their lineup was incredible. Superstar after superstar. These people wanted it. And they were the nicest fans, buddy. They, Keith and I were in the belly of the beast, dude. We were. We were in the middle this. Riders looking around like he was intimidated, but they were all like, I was asking guys questions. They're filling me in on where guys are from in Dominican, like their paths to getting there after the game. Look us in a great game, amazing game, shaking our hands, but dude, they were so loud. We were going up the escalator. As we walked in, all of a sudden we're like, what is that? And it's just drums. Boom, boom. They got the horns, they Got the whistle.

[B]

Kind of like they do in Japan too, right? Japan. They're very loud and animated as well. This was, this was in the same building that they had the Winter Classic.

[D]

Yes. Yep.

[C]

Buddy.

[D]

It was.

[C]

The difference in atmosphere from that game to this.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Was. It was a different galaxy from before

[D]

the game even started. Biz like the game hadn't even started. We take the escalator up, all you hear is drumming, whistling, dancing, guys running around, girls running around, dancing. It was legit in like from the second you walked into the, into the field.

[C]

I'll play. I have a video. Just like kind of quickly. This was, this was an hour before the first pitch.

[B]

What percentage was there, Dominic? Oh, wow. That's in the concourse.

[C]

That's in the concourse. And there was a Toledo six different groups of 40 to 50 guys with all their instruments and horns and it was. And buddy, the game, the game itself,

[B]

I know, it looks awesome.

[C]

Dominican Republic hit a home run off Skins. They're up one nothing. Then I wanted to get Wyatt something because he couldn't come with us, right. Dude, we walked. Tell me. Explain this to me. There's four different merch shops. There wasn't a child sized hat or shirt in any of them. Not one. No kids gear. I was like, what is going on in that walk? Because everyone's like, the other one over there behind left field has it. I'm like, okay. Not behind right field has it.

[B]

None of them.

[C]

Four innings I. I missed. I missed both home runs. I missed.

[D]

And the throw out from Judge and

[C]

Aaron Judge gunned a guy out at third. Now, I was seeing this on tv, but then like, Ryder's upset we can't get Wyatt something. He's being a great brother.

[B]

What a great brother. He is.

[D]

Yeah, he's amazing.

[C]

He, he, he, he was. He's like, I want to get wired something. And we couldn't. We. We ended. I bought like a. A small, like, adult jersey that whites weren't around. It's down to his toes. But the game. Yeah. And then like at the end of the game, apparently the strikeout Mason Miller had, it was a little bit low. A lot of responses to a little bit. I think it was a ball. A little low ball. I was at a soft spring training game, Red Sox spring training game, earlier in the week, and I got to witness the first. Now they can challenge balls and strikes. And it's pretty cool because the battle backup challenge, I think you only get two or three of them a game. If, if it's successful, the challenge, you don't lose it, though. So you could have 20 a game if they're all correct, right? Okay, buddy. Four seconds.

[B]

Boom.

[D]

Perfect.

[C]

So the answers come quickly. There's not a delay. It's another great addition along with the pitch clock we've talked about.

[B]

But you can't do that in the World Baseball Classic.

[C]

They don't have it. And that's what people like. It's such. Because that would have been ball four, which I think would have loaded the bases.

[D]

It would have been first and third.

[C]

Would have been first and third. There was a guy in third tying run.

[B]

I saw. I saw a graphic of. Of the guys they left stranded in the second four.

[D]

That's right when Whit got back, because my nephew. I took my three nephew. We go up two, one. And I'm like, Whit's missing everything. Like, what is going on? He comes back. They load the bases in my nephews. Look at me. They're like, you got to be the one to tell Whit he's got to go back to the Jersey store.

[C]

And I already, in my head, I'm like, oh, I'm. I'm getting booed out of here, like, by the Americans around us. Like, if this. If they score a run here, we get out of the jam. And then Garrett Whitlock comes in. He's a Red Sox pitcher. Strikes out the side in the eighth. That was sick. Then Mason Miller, who's the pitcher closer for the Padres, he. He. He's faced 15 batters in the World Baseball Classic. He struck out 10 of them. Now, granted, the 10th one maybe was. It was ball four, but incredible atmosphere. Something really cool. Keith's idea. And we drove over from Naples in a torrential downpour. The kids are screaming. I was.

[B]

Shut up.

[C]

Be quiet. I couldn't even see in front of me. My mom's in the car. It was a disaster. Everyone be quiet.

[D]

I'm trying to focus.

[C]

I had my sunglasses on. And a pouring.

[B]

No yelling on the bus as I'm

[D]

texting you, trying to get tickets. And you must have wanted to kill me.

[C]

Oh, I was just losing it. But incred. Incredible night. Incredible night. And. And the final should be great. I think Venezuela plays Team Italy, which is all guys from New Jersey tonight.

[B]

And then the whole espresso shot thing is great. So funny when the Italians hit a home run. Although they're all Americans. Isn't it like 80% Americans for team Italy or something? Oh, yeah.

[D]

I'd say probably even more.

[A]

Real quick, guys on the robot, I was talking to An MLB player who said that they think that this season because of those, the robot strike zone or whatever, it's going to be an

[C]

all time historic home run season. Like bet the over is basically on

[A]

every guy because the way the umps are going to call it this year, it's, it's going to be like out of this world. Like guys are going to have historic seasons.

[B]

And for what reason though? Like just because they're going to get more opportunities at the plate because they'll, they'll call the bullshit balls back.

[A]

Yeah, basically like those pitchers aren't going to get those calls that were like borderline on the strike zone now. And they think that guys are going

[C]

to be using this all the time.

[A]

Like no question about it, they're going to.

[C]

Well, here's what's interesting is, is the pitcher and the batter are the only can challenge. So it can't be the manager, but you only get two or three a game, whatever it is. So I was saying to my dad at the spring training game, like, oh, if you call for a challenge and you're incorrect, like you're catching heat when you get back to the bench because you just lost one and it was your decision.

[B]

Those guys knew it though, as soon as they called it. He was fucking losing it.

[C]

Yeah, he was losing it.

[B]

Like he gave it to like, why are you talking about.

[C]

Yeah, and I don't think the umps are thrilled about it because it's going to make them look a little ridiculous because.

[B]

So I would not think that. I would just think it shows you getting the call wrong though. Yeah, but you're going pure on instincts where it's like, okay, call like perfect, use it. Okay, I was wrong. Like what are you supp. You got to make a decision like split second. Right.

[C]

So I, I know, but I do know that the more challenges against you that are where you were incorrect, that affects your ability to get perform better.

[B]

We're in the big baby. Okay.

[C]

All right.

[B]

Speaking of that, after all that baseball stuff, I got down our Greg Maddox rabbit hole last night. Have you ever. This guy. Have you ever. Have you ever.

[C]

Oh, wizard him. He's just a professor.

[B]

There's a back and forth between at bats of him going and Barry Bonds.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And them like describing like, well, like Barry Barnes like, oh, I knew he was going to come back with this. And. And Greg Maddox saying like, I knew he knew I was going to come back with this. So I threw. It's. Baseball is a pretty, it's a pretty fascinating sport and the adjustments they've made over the past couple years, I believe have saved it. And we've already talked about this, boys, if they go through a lockout, they're fucking morons.

[C]

They're.

[B]

They're morons.

[C]

And I'm around the, the field last night just talking to different fans like it is. This is the last season and it's just so mind numbing having been through this in the NHL and the step back and where baseball's at. So enjoy this year because it seems like there is zero chance these guys are these guys. They're exactly incorrect in thinking no salary cap.

[B]

Yup. We were arguing with Ernie Clement. Schneider, and I'm forgetting the other guy.

[C]

Ernie Clement got in the game as a pinch runner. Immediate double play.

[B]

Nathan Lucas. Fuck. I drew a blank on him. He was a beauty. We argued with him and I said we were all beating the same drum. I said, you guys need to get, get to the table with them and figure something out. And once again, man, you get teams like the Pittsburgh Pirates who don't spend shit. You force those types of teams where their bottom, their basement is 50, $75 million more than what it is now. And then, yeah, maybe those. There's a top cap. But the saying, we always use the tide lifts all boats or some shit.

[D]

Yep. Rising tide lifts all boats.

[B]

I butcher that one every goddamn time.

[C]

That's okay. You're known for butchering simple things and it's okay because that's what makes you you. And another thing biz that makes you you is your love for the Toronto Maple Leafs. And I'm very unfortunate that this happened right after we recorded, I think, or maybe the day after last week, but an upsetting scene, to say the least. The butcher, Radko Gudis. He did it again. This one might have been one of his most egregious. Now, my dad hates Radko Gutis. I said, hey, apparently he's a great guy. He goes, I don't care how good of a guy he is, I hate watching him play. He's injured so many people.

[A]

He's like.

[C]

I went through his YouTube of all his dirty hits after that. Matthews one and this one. This one was ugly. It was a straight sprint to a guy who's obviously going to take a step around you. And when he took the step around him, he stuck his knee out. It was what happened after that was the main issue and got everyone talking over the past five, six days. And that was the. No response. And I'll say the most amazing thing about it was Nylander after saying, I didn't see it. And, and then the screenshot comes up of him with his arm in the air looking to make the, make the penalty call biz. What did you think? Give me your thoughts.

[B]

What? Yeah, I mean, we're, we're pretty like far removed.

[C]

I know, I know.

[B]

But he's really heard a lot of the responses and, and what has to happen. I spoke my piece on it on TNT last night. Like, it's just like the, it's like the, the exclamation point on just a season from hell.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And I would say as a result of it, like beforehand, I would, I would have said, you know what? We got Austin two more years under contract. I'm hoping that he wants to come back and be part of the group that fixes this and, and, you know, quick retool and be competitive and relevant and back in a playoff spot next year. You know, some people might disagree with that and think I'm delusional. Yes, I'm a bit of a delusional Leafs fan. I think we can all agree on that. And then Willie as well. But that was one of those things where I'm like, you know what? I would be totally fine if Austin, after, you know, dealing with the bullshit after the, the Olympics, seeing that response from his teammates and him just saying, you know what? I've given my time and energy to the city. I think maybe it's time that we kind of have like a clean breakup. You guys get plenty in return. And, and boys, I'm just speaking my, my side of it. Like, he might be like, oh, there's no bearing on my decision based on what happened on the ice there. And maybe he wants to come back and be part of the solution, which is awesome. Right? That would be great if that was the case because he's a, he's a world class player and you got him locked up for the next two years at a pretty reasonable aav. But I, you know, I, I said on the broadcast too, like, I can't speak with like a ton of credibility when it comes to power play. I can't speak about high, you know, playing top line minutes and a lot of things really. But I can speak on that because that was my job as a player. And even when I was playing in junior hockey in the east coast, in the ahl, when stuff like that would happen, and when I wasn't even a fighter at that level in the ECHL and junior, if that happened to one of my teammates, regardless of where they Stood in the lineup, I would have been sprinting over there to try to handle that business.

[D]

I remember when you wouldn't even be playing in games and if guys got taken liberties on you being more upset than anyone, like, couldn't do anything. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It was a very vulnerable thing. Right. And yeah, it's like you of all guys, like, you were not known for your toughness, that you are self deprecating about it. Like, like, remember when Donor got knocked out by Wiz against Anaheim? You ended up fighting him.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He. I went down and fought him. I knew I was going to get beat up. Forgot he was a lefty. But it's just one of those things when your captain gets hit like that. It was a bad elbow and some. And it wasn't just because I wanted to do it. I probably had to beat a guy to get there, to try to fight him, to show my love to Donor because four other guys on the ice wanted to do it too. Like, it was our team was close like that, where if one guy got taken advantage of, everybody wanted to get him. The bench was going crazy, the coaches were going crazy. So, yeah, I mean, it's just one of those things where you see a guy get hit like that no matter who you are. And goodest too. Like, he's not one of those guys. If he hits a guy, he'll give you the fight. Like, he's not going to shy away from it. And if he, if it's a smaller guy, like say Nylander grabbed him, he's not really going to take advantage of him if he has the opportunity. I mean, as bad as that sounds, you just need.

[B]

What's the worst that's gonna happen? You get bopped on the head a few times, like, oh, like, oh. Nowadays, like, it's like all concussion protocol. Give me a break, man. Some of these guys are such, like, I told the story on the broadcast, boys, like, and I've said it before, the Jeremy Oblonski were in Binghamton, right. I know this guy is an absolute killer. Like, I, I was, I, I'm a, I was like a light heavyweight trying to learn how to do it in order to, to try to get to the next level. And, you know, he ends up running one of our guys. And I go right after him and three punches, he catches me right on the button and I'm Bambi. I can't even stand up on the way to the box. And once again, there's no concussion protocol. There's no going down the tunnel to show Weakness. You go to the penalty box, you get your bearings, and hopefully after that five minutes, you serve. You're. You're okay enough to skate back to the bench and take a regular shift. Well, I was and I did. Well, we had another guy in the team. Bondi wasn't in the lineup or was injured or. Or maybe he wasn't there at the time for whatever reason. So I was essentially the guy. Well, sure enough, Yabo ends up running another one of our teammates, and we had another guy in the team. I'm not going to say names. Who was kind of like, in my position. And he. He didn't do anything.

[C]

I pretend to not see it move. You know what I'm talking about, buddy?

[A]

And.

[B]

And that's another thing, too. Like, I don't give a fuck if you saw it. You see your captain there, and you see that Goudis is around it. You fucking. You. You. You shed the mitts, you try to pump his eyes shut, and you ask questions later. What are you worried about? You're not worried about. Season's done an instigator penalty to put them on the power play where you lose a game where you desperately needed those two points, you're out of a fucking playoff spot. You got nothing to play for other than your pride and your teammates and finishing the season strong to let the organization know that you want to be a part of the solution. And it's not even just Willie. It's the other guys on the ice, and maybe they're taking a lot of heat for it, and they probably feel terrible about it now and regret the situation. And, hey, they're going to have to live with those thoughts and that feeling and that criticism, because that's just, hey, buddy, you're playing. You want to play in the bigs, and you want to fucking make all that money, you got to deal with the criticism when it comes. But. But going back to what I was saying, I had to go back out there and fight Yabo again, and he fucking bambied me again. And I. I was. I was. I had the Bambi knees. I went back to the box and did the same thing. So it ultimately comes back to if you want to be a winner and a champion, you. You have to come out of your comfort zone, and you have to show courage in situations where maybe you don't want to. And that was a test, and they failed it miserably. And to me, it's just a bad look. Like, I know I joke a little bit about the chrome hard jeans and the tank top and the press box type of stuff. And this isn't like an opportunity to shit on Willie. It's more of like, buddy, I get that. That's cool, and I get all that. But it's like, I would sit him down after the season, really every single guy, if I was management, and say, what do you want? Like, what do you want? What do you want out of this?

[C]

Like, can I wonder. Can I. Can we win with this?

[B]

Can we win with you?

[C]

Are you willing.

[B]

Are you willing to make these sacrifices? Are you more worried about growing your. And listen, like, I was a social media guy, too, but, like, I also wasn't playing first line minutes and making 11 and a half and relied upon to win hockey games. So it's just, like, it's very frustrating from a fan standpoint. And I am 100% okay if they trade. If. If they come to an agreement, right? Like, I love Matthews. Like, if he wants to stick around, all. All good. If. If. If they want. If they come to a decision where they're going to move on from him and then Willie and strip it to the ground. My only advice is I want. I want the Wendell Clark era back. I want the Dougie Gilmores. I want to be so fucking proud of the team I'm watching on the ice, where, yeah, maybe they're not. Maybe they. They lose second or third round, but I know they're going down with a fight, and they're going to have blood on their jerseys, and they're going to be. And then. And they're going to have the yacht club rocking. They're going to have people so, so passionate about the team that's on the ice. They're not too busy between periods doing bumps in the bathroom that they're out there glued to their seats and then standing up when they get the action. That. That. That's what they're so proud to see. So that's kind of just me speaking from the heart. Maybe people think we're being hyperbolic about it and overreacting, but it's just, like, I've seen enough, and it's. It's time to. It's time to kind of reshuffle the deck here.

[D]

From everything I've heard is that Matthews wants to be there and wants to be part of the solution and win a cup there. But, like, I don't know, you think this is one of those things where it's like, oh, this is the final straw?

[C]

I. I don't know if it's the final straw. I just know that you look around and remembering playing and like when, when I was on Pittsburgh and we came together, it was, it was things that some fans may not think is that important and, and playing the game, it's just like Buddy Darlene said it best the other day. He's like, we have formed a brotherhood in here and this is a team who had the Tage Thompson incident. And then you see the difference this year. And he said, now if one of us gets touched, there's four guys flying in. You saw it with Doane when Hagel went after Darlene and then he was asked like, oh, what did you guys do? He's like, we drink beers together. And that is like a headline and makes people laugh, but it's not even a joke. It's literally like becoming a family and hanging out off the ice and you don't have to be best buddies and you don't have to be out all night together, but after games and on the road, guys getting in a room or a hall together in one of the banquet rooms and just having a couple beers and it's just like, like it's a team. It you become a family and you see teams that are like that and they have tons of success and even when they don't have success, you can tell the difference between the teams that aren't like that. And yeah, it's quite obvious, I guess having played, not trying to sound like that guy that but it. I just remember the teams I was on that was like that and then some teams I was on that wasn't.

[B]

I, I, I agree. And somebody posted because there was like an older guy. Yance, you might think of the. But they had a rule where you don't have to stay the whole night. But when we throw our bags in our room, bag chucker shout out to Hal Gill and Mason, go down for one. And if you want to go back to your room and go on your own after that, but you stay for one and then you always see the teams that have the most success. You're going to have 15, 16 guys there, staying for a few more, getting to know each other and forming that bond you just talk about with Darlene and Buddy. You mentioned that haggle incident in Buffalo the other night where Josh Doane ended up jumping on him upl I think it was uplift. He was sprinting out of his crease to go handle business. Like that's, that is a carbon copy example of what needs to happen if you're going to, you're going to be a Successful group. And I just don't feel it out of Toronto. And it just. You're from hell. And. Yeah. And some people want to bring up the whole, like, oh, like, like the idiots online. Like, oh, like, like maybe they didn't want to fight for mass use because they don't feel that type of reciprocation. It's like, I don't know, man. His fucking Team USA teammates seem to really like him. Like, I don't. I don't think he's a problem. And nor should he have to fucking worry about handling business. Everybody else should because he's the one doing all the heavy lifting.

[C]

We did get a very, very funny press release by, by Judd super agent Judd. The league runs through him. And, and to say in a press or statement that the director of player safety should be suspended himself. That, that. I mean, that's funny. I don't, I don't care which way you look at it now. It was a five game suspension for Gudis. I would have been fine with like seven. I mean, it just maybe a couple more. It wasn't like, five's not nothing.

[B]

I said eight to ten.

[C]

Okay. Yeah. Because it's that blatant. And he's done it so many times prior, so I was surprised it was five. But the whole system on how you get suspended. Even McDavid talked about it. And, and we'll get into McDavid. I thought the Oilers had a pretty good response to Ozzy Wiseblatt and his hit on Leon, who left the game, came back, and then didn't finish the game. But he said, like, basically, when everyone's complaining about every suspension, it kind of screams like, all right, something's a little off here. The statement is, if every time there's a suspension, everybody complains about it, why don't we take a look at the process and figure out if there's a better way to make sure that both parties are happy. Because it seems like there's a lot of frustration. I get that.

[B]

Well, what do you. What do you think, Whit?

[C]

So I play with George Paros. I like George a lot. That's a tough gig, dude.

[B]

Brutal gig.

[C]

It is not a gig that's for anyone. Or the faint of heart because you are pissing every side off.

[D]

Right? Right.

[C]

You're pissing off the side you're suspending. You're pissing off the side that doesn't think it was a long enough suspension. You're a former player, you're taking money out of players pockets. It's not Something that's like an easy gig, which is why I usually don't see people do it that long. I know Shanny did it for a little while. Biz. I don't know in terms of. Did you ask what, what could you do different in, in.

[B]

In the process?

[C]

Yeah. Is that what you meant?

[B]

No, no, I just. My whole thing is they, what they say is, is they don't take the injury into account. They say that.

[D]

Right, right.

[B]

Don't know if that's the case, but I think it's a little silly if they don't weigh it as a factor. Okay. I, I also don't know if Toronto's in a wild card spot right now, fighting for their playoff lives, and all of a sudden Gudas takes out their captain and their best player. Does that factor in you? You guys?

[C]

Yeah. Well, that shouldn't be the case because Toronto's out of it, you're saying? Well, yeah. You're saying, would it be more if they were in it?

[B]

Well, yeah, because he's obviously way more valuable in that situation to his team. Would that factor on the decision making? But to me, if you have a guy who's now got a third degree MCL sprain, which. I've had that before. I've had a second degree, I've had a first degree, I've had a third degree, I've had it all. I got no knees right now or, or teeth. Or teeth or, or brain or nostrils like Austin's. I think he's total gonna miss 16 games. So you're telling me a guy who gives a direct knee with people said, oh, he hasn't been suspended in seven years. Like, ah, listen, we know Gudas plays on the edge and we know that was a torpedo knee and he just took out a guy for 16 games, if not more length of time, a third degree, you're usually looking at about six weeks, if not two months, depending on the severity of the third degree. So how is that fair that this guy's going to miss, you know, 10 days to two weeks when this guy's going to miss that much time. So to me, that scale is a little unbalanced and they should weigh it as a factor. Are, are you, do you guys agree with that?

[C]

It's just tough.

[D]

I'm, I'm even going back to McDavid's comments, like, no matter what, someone's going to be pissed off whether what team, if you're the Toronto Maple Leafs fan or if you're a Anaheim Ducks fan. So I don't Know how they can make it?

[C]

Like, with.

[D]

Making a. Kneeing is automatic 5. Making an elbow to the head is an automatic 3. Like, how do you, how can you possibly.

[B]

Well, I think you have to weigh it like, like if, if a guy, like kind of like he starts getting a little bit of a chicken wing out and you could clearly see it's a little bit accidental and there's an injury as a result of that. Well, you gotta, you gotta weigh that in on the scale, right?

[C]

I think you're, you're crazy to, to think you shouldn't. I'm not saying you. But if somebody's injured and you don't factor that in, that's, that's ludicrous to me. And it's a, it's a big time reach of an analogy. But it's like, like, hey, you get it. You murder someone or you try to murder them and you don't, it's attempted

[B]

murder or it's murder.

[C]

And, and using the analogy is a little crazy talking about murder, but it is Gouda, so maybe it's not that crazy. So, like, buddy, like, if a guy's out 30 games with an injury, yeah, it should be way more of a suspension than if, than if he didn't end up getting hurt from the same play. I.

[D]

But it's one of those things where if, say, Matthews hit some fourth liner and they're like, hey, you be out for 30 games and then they'll make the penalty on Matthews more severe and then Toronto doesn't get him.

[B]

Yeah, but, well, it shouldn't, that, that shouldn't weigh it on, on like how good the player is. I think that we all know when we watch a video, if you've played before, especially to our level, what level the intent was and what the guy's history is like. Matthew's not running around elbowing guys typically, right? So if he just kind of is in a, a quick situation where instinctively his arm comes up because it happens quick, and as a result that guy's out for six weeks with a concussion, I don't think you're hitting him as hard as you would. As if, like Goudas with a, with a, with a torpedo knee, or if Goudis is going Scott Stevens across the blue line and clips a guy on the jaw like, like that. To me, I think we're all smart enough to know how to evaluate it as former players. And once again, I think that, that the injury at hand should weigh as a factor. It shouldn't be the end all be all but they should have taken that into account with Guta suspension.

[D]

If they gave him six games, it wouldn't even be talked about. It's just because it was that five games. It was, it was the, it was the phone hearing. Yeah.

[C]

The in person.

[B]

Sure. But I, I still would have been like, I think 8 to 10 was the number. And does the fact that Anaheim is, is in a playoff spot and fighting and, you know, does that weigh into it as well? So not. I, I, I'm not as. Obviously, Judd is kind of emotional about it because Austin's one of his biggest clients. He's like, really good friends with him. He cares about him and his family, and there's like a, A deep emotional connection there. So obviously he's fiery, but I think that there it's, it's somewhere in between where it was. But five games was definitely light and, but you nailed on it. It's the worst job in the league. And George is. Deals with so much backlash as a result to every decision he makes. So I do feel for him. And not a, not a job a lot of people want. Remember, Remember Shanny was doing it and he was doing the videos.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, my God, yeah. By the way. Yeah. Whoever does it will be hated. It's just, that's just how it is.

[B]

We should be the panel and we do it on here. Imagine we have no listeners left.

[C]

Imagine what people would say about us.

[B]

They'd hate us more than Philly fans.

[D]

We should, we should, honestly, when there is something like that, before the announcement comes out, we should, should say what we think, how many games we think it should be, and see if we're close.

[C]

So, yeah, so we'll, we'll, we'll be even more wrong. I'll be like, that's a seven game. And they're like, that's a $5,000 fine.

[B]

So we'll do like college. Like, he has to sit out the first period.

[C]

And you mentioned the Flyers hating us, Biz. But they can't hate us today, buddy, because Mark Howe, unbelievable interview. We got legend. You in a little bit. Incredible. This is so many Gordy stories. Mark Howe, hall of Famer himself. Just an awesome guy, great storyteller. So I can't wait to get to that.

[B]

And I'll just, I'll quickly touch on that, boys. Like, this is, this is probably top five interview for me. And like, obviously we, to, to have somebody on who, who knew the, all the Gordy stories as much as his son did. Like, I felt like, like it was just the nostalgia we Always talk about the Mount Rushmore and, and of hockey. And hearing Mark talk about his father, you completely understand why Wayne Gretzky was obsessed with Gordie Howe and why he looked up to him and he was his idol. If the NHL is nowhere near the place it is right now without Gordie Howe, the fact that he would, after games in Detroit, he would sign autographs till every single person had their autograph signed and left the building every time he played there. It's like you, like you would never see that again, ever. And the foundation of this league was, was built off the back of guys like Gordie Howe. And it's just like I have like fucking chills thinking about it. And just an incredible one. I think we were with him for 90 minutes. I could have talked to him for another two hours. And I hope we get to get him on again and get on there. His brother as well, who I'm sure has different variations of different stories as well. So, so just an absolute honor to get to talk to Mark, who is a Hall of Famer himself. So just, just incredible.

[C]

Yeah. And just quickly, I do want to mention. So that Ozzy Wiseblot hit on Leon. Now. I don't think the injury is too serious. Didn't sound like that. Like they let him go back into the game. He couldn't finish. He'd already scored one. Nothing wrong with the hit. Nothing at all. Good, good hockey. Hit two. Leon, I think he averages close to like three points a game. Against Nashville, he'd already scored. So I get it. It's like, all right, we're going to run around. The only thing I would have liked is right after Kapanen went over and two handed him right near the bench and Wisebot gave him one right back. Maybe just like jump him then I understand, like not his role, but whatever. We're talking about it later. Frederick did his best. Wise Flat just wouldn't fight. It was nice though. Wallman crushed him along the wall after he made a breakout pass. Oilers get a big win. So that was, that was just as long as Leon's like not seriously hurt. It's not a big deal. But I thought the, the, the response was pretty good because the rest of the game they were going at him and he just didn't, he wasn't, he wasn't going to fight. But I respect that. Kid plays hard and he, and he threw a nice hit and it wasn't

[D]

a dirty hit and they're still going after him like that's just a hockey play. I hope it's just like a hip pointer and not his back because like the way he went in you hope it's not his back because especially during playoff time, if that gets lingering is brutal. But yeah, I mean that's one of those things. Those happened during a game, you know, the guys tried to do what they did. Wiseblop probably he doesn't have to answer the there because it wasn't a dirty hit. He didn't do anything illegal. So I think that's kind of people think he's a for not fighting. I don't think that's fair because it was a clean hit.

[C]

Yeah. And I just wanted to get to that and we're going to get into the east playoff picture, some stuff happening there and obviously out west. But right now I think it's time for Mark how everyone sit down and enjoy this because I know we all did. Guys, let's take a minute here and talk about DraftKings. No sports flips faster than hockey. One power play, one goalie pulled with two minutes left and everything changes. DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NHL, is built for that kind of chaos with live betting from puck drop to the final horn and DraftKings has your back with the early exit protection. If you place a pregame player prop and your player starts the game but leaves in the first period due to an injury and doesn't return, you'll get your cash back. No bonus bets, no opt in. Just real protection when injuries happen early. And if you're new to DraftKings, bet just $5, you get $200 in bonus bets instantly. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app and use Code Chiclets. That's Code chiclets to turn five bucks into 200 in bonus bets instantly in partnership with DraftKings, the crown is yours.

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see sportsbook.draftkings.com promos Limited time offer guys this episode of Spit and Chicklet is brought to you by Body Armor Flash iv. An official partner of the National Hockey League, Flash IV is packed with electrolytes, delivering faster Longer lasting hydration without any artificial dyes and flavors or sweeteners. You don't need the crap, you don't need the junk. That's why you need body Armor flash iv. I had one after the world baseball classic. I felt amazing this morning. Whether you're training, traveling or just feeling the heat after a long night out, Work hard, hydrate hard with body armor flash IV. It tastes great. Easy to get local 7 11. You can go grab one anytime you need to be hydrated. You need body armor flash IV. Give it a try. Go to 711 right now and grab one. Work hard, hydrate hard with body armor flash IV. It's a real pleasure to be joined right now by a special guest, a hockey hall of famer and son of hockey royalty, Mark Howe.

[D]

What's going on?

[C]

How are you doing?

[A]

All right guys. So how you doing today? So just I've been busy like everybody else on east coast, digging out of snow the last week or so and yeah, just having fun with it.

[C]

Are you still out there shoveling?

[A]

Oh, yeah, gotta keep doing. So actually did. Did around the house last Sunday and then went down to the Jersey shore because I got a home down there and I got a couple boats so checking on things and because I didn't think there was going to be that much snow. But yeah, there was. There's plenty of snow and ice and the hard part because I try to go for a run most every day and I think it was about 19 degrees and I was out. Did a quick three miles and just wore four layers. But the face was getting a little chilly so I couldn't wait to get back in the car and get the heater going again.

[B]

I was going to say you have a great tan going, but it's more. More about the cold.

[A]

Oh yeah. Oh for sure.

[D]

Well, you're 70 years old and you look unbelievable. Is that, you know, just. You give that credit to you just staying busy and running and just staying active?

[A]

Yeah, well, that and good genes. So dad obviously was a strong human being. I think I have more of my mother's genes, but my mom was a very strong woman as well. But I think over the. I retired about five years ago when my longtime girlfriend Sharon, she had had. She was beginning symptoms of dementia and it was starting to get an issue. And then we went and got vaccinated for Covid just about five years ago and it just blew her out of the water. And ever since that day she's needed 24 hour care. And so the in I think ever since I've been 50. I. Because it becomes more important, I think, that you're. You're with your fitness and all, and trying to give yourself the best opportunity, the quality. Quality of life and. But I find now it is so beneficial being the primary caregiver for Sharon here at home is to. It's amazing. I go out for a run and, you know, some days, you know, the farthest I've ever run is 18 miles. I've done it a few times, but for me, gets rid of the crap in my head and keeps my. Keeps my brain somewhat clear. And for me, that's the. The best benefit of it.

[B]

We had a coach in Arizona, Dave King. Yeah. And it was same thing every single morning. He would wake up and he would go run about. I think it was about five miles he would do every day.

[D]

So I think he just got more matted the more he ran, though. He was a grumpy guy.

[A]

Well, no, those are. Those are coaches. So in general. So, you know, the happy ones are the guys that didn't work out.

[D]

So.

[B]

How much. How much hockey you still watching?

[A]

Actually, not this year. Not much. So I was. Was. I went on a fishing trip with my brother Marty. We were up in. Up in Nova Scotia, up in Antigonish, and did some giant bluefin tuna fish. And Dennis, you know, teammate of yours, probably Dennis Bombay, got me.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Bones.

[B]

Crooked hands. Bones.

[A]

Yeah. About 10, 12 years ago, and then. And I've gone up there a number of times since, and then came back, and then, unfortunately for my. I had an emergency surgery. I think it was just about 10, 11 weeks ago. I ended up having a bowel block. I woke up in the middle of the night, was an extreme pain, and they ran me in. They. They had to split me open, take a little bit of my intestine out, staple it back together, sewed me up, and. And I'm probably about 95, 97% healed from that. So. The hardest thing has just been getting my energy levels back, but it's. But I feel lucky. So, I mean, I. I don't know what happened if I would have been out in a boat. And I went in through the pain that I went through, so. So I feel pretty fortunate. At least I was here at home.

[D]

Is fishing, like, a therapeutic thing for you? Because biz is a big fly now, and it's just something that, you know, he likes to get off his mind, and it's kind of his. His relaxation. Is it the same for you, Mark?

[B]

I went one time, I said, I'm addicted. And these guys have been giving it to me ever since because. Because I said the word addicted. They think I should be doing it every week. But you can't be fly fishing every week because it's cold outside now.

[A]

Well, you can, but the lure might bounce a little bit. But I don't. Yeah, I don't think it's. I. I used to go. I used to golf a ton. I used to play 125 rounds a year years ago. And now, now that I. Now I suck. We used to call it the summer tour, especially here in Philly. And now when I started my playing career down in Houston, we used to play all the time and. But then I, I slowly migrated into boating and fishing and, And I think a lot of it was because I got into boating big time in 86 down at the Jersey Shore. And I loved offshore fishing, so I got a bigger boat and. But my kids were at 3, 4, 5 years of age at the time. And I'm golfing, you're gone all winter, traveling, hockey, and now I'm golfing five days a week. And I said I gotta start doing more with my kids. I want to be a part of their lives growing up. So we, we got into boating, went to the shore and. And yes, we used to spend probably two and a half to three months there every year. And I continue to go there and it was great. I did so many wonderful things with my kid. Unfortunately, all three of my kids, they all got seasick.

[B]

I've been there, buddy.

[A]

Yeah. Until they invented the patch behind the ear, it was hard for them to go out. And they still don't like it as much, but for me, I find, like some of my brother Marty's up just outside of Hartford, and so we're about three hours apart and we, we normally do four to five fishing trips every year. We go down to Louisiana down in Venice, and we go tuna fishing down out of there. And. And then even years ago, we used to go fishing up in Long Island Sound. So when I was scouting, I used to go do a lot of games at Bridgeport, a lot of games of Hartford, a lot of games in Springfield. And when my dad was still alive, so. So dad would be staying at Marty's house. And so in the morning we get up, four o' clock and we go wet a line till about noon, come in, have a little nap to go, go scout a few games and just hope by Sunday, when you've been doing the same thing four days, hopefully the game was good. Otherwise your. Your head's kind of given it one of these as you're trying to watch. But yeah, I found it. I mean, I. I love the excitement of it. And every day you go out, you think, oh, today's the day. But. But I think a lot of it is. I built a lot of relationships with. With friends and, and mostly with family doing fishing trips and. Because I think my dad used to take Marty and I in a lot of trips when we were kids.

[B]

How many hole in ones if you're playing that many rounds of golf?

[A]

Only had one. So you got one, though. I got one, yeah. It was. I had. I lift the cockpit up five or six times. There was a favorite course we had in Detroit called Plum Hollow. I think it was the third hole. It was perfect. It was 180 yards. It was perfect six iron for me. And, and I'd swear if I ever got one, it's gonna be that hole. But I think, I think my whole one was out at the La Costa Country Club. I was playing with dad out in California back in the old wha days.

[B]

Oh, that's what you see. You got it when, when, when Gordy was there.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, he. Yeah, so like that was one thing. And I, I was a pretty good golfer back in the day. The first time I. First time I ever shot par was. I was 15 years old. And because dad was a great golfer too. Dad was like a plus two Hannigan, he was so good at every sport. But I figured I never going to. I said I'm never going to catch him in hockey. So I said, well, maybe I can get him a golf. And I'll never forget because we were, we were. We're both won over going into the last hole and he. Bogey died. Birdied. So I said that was, that was a big day for me.

[C]

First time you ever beat him was that day?

[A]

Yep. Yeah, it was that day.

[C]

Oh, that's incredible.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[C]

We. We love going back to the start. Your story's just incredible. Like your dad's Mr. Hockey, right? And I'm looking up, he was 32 when you were born. And most of the time, you know, guys have kids at that age. It's like I probably got a couple years left. I mean, he wasn't, he wasn't even close to being done. So. So you're born in Detroit, he's on the wings. And what do you remember about growing up and being around the rink? And I imagine you fell in love with the game quite early just seeing your dad and, And Seeing what he had done, like, what are your memories of, of starting to play the game and how often your dad was around then as he was still playing and probably traveling a ton.

[A]

Yeah, well, yeah, back in the day they traveled by, you know, by train most of the time and. But, but it was great, dad. Whenever I could, dad would bring me to the rink. And I remember I started playing my first year of playing on a team. I was four years old. We played now door ranks for two years. And then my mom, who was so instrumental in my brother and I's career, she negotiated the deal and was able to build a rank as one of the. It was the first rank built indoor rank in the state of Michigan. And, and I think within about the next seven, eight years, there was probably 20, 25 ranks.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. But, so, but I, I had so many opportunities as a kid. Dad would take me to practice between Doug Barkley, Bill Gatsby, Sid Able, all these guys were coaching at the time when I was a kid that then when I got to. And I haven't grown since, since I was like 13 years old and I was about £190 back then, but they used to let me practice with the Red Wings when I was 13. And I remember dad one year I was 14, he took me up to Port Huron and I spent a week at training camp. My parents let me miss a week of school and I went right through training camp and on our first scrimmage I was lined up and normally Dean Prentice was a left winger on dad's line, but they let me take that spot and Dean was playing against me. And in the first scrimmage, their team won three nothing. Dean Prince got three goals. And every guy in that locker room said, hey kid, we know you can score, but you got to learn how to check. So those were, those are lessons I learned when I was 12, 13, 14 years of age.

[B]

Wow. Unbelievable. At what age did you realize that your, your father was this larger than life figure?

[C]

Like what.

[B]

When did that kind of clue in where it's like, oh, like this guy's a big deal and so many people look up to him. And you kind of just touched on how instrumental. I think we forget, like, we just view Michigan as like a hockey state now. But back then you said there were no indoor rinks. So before Wayne Gretzky, you know, was in la, it was kind of like that movement your father created in Detroit, in Michigan. Really?

[A]

Yeah, well, you know, everywhere we went, I just thought it was normal. I mean, that's What I grew up with, like, it was. And it was one in Detroit. I mean, I remember I went in Detroit, but every. I remember one time we were on a fishing trip up in the Northwest Territories. We flew back, we landed in Edmonton and you know, back in the day with no cell phones, and dad went into a phone booth and it took him at least two hours to get out of the phone booth because he never refused an autograph. So everybody in the entire Edmonton airport was there and dad would just sign and so. And. But we were used to that. But our whole lives had to do with just doing things at a family. We never talked hockey, we never talked those kind of things. We taught, when are we going fishing? When can we go golfing? Or, you know, when we gonna do a family trip to Florida? Whatever. That was our life. And it was. Had nothing to do with the limelight or anything else. And. But. And dad was very gracious with it. I. I know whenever I went to the Red Wing games and sometimes I would be the only one there. I'd be maybe nine, ten years of age. And the wings, you always came out in the hallway and you had everybody in the arena who was still there sitting there, and they would all want autographs. Well, I loved it. I'd have my little. Little stick and a little tape ball, and I was playing ball hockey against the. The stairs went up to the bleachers or the balcony, and dad would sit and sign every single autograph every single night. And I. And I do remember one time I asked him in the car on the ride home, I said, dad, like, how can you do that? Why do you do that? And he said to me, he said, those are the people that are paying my salary. He said, you know, I owe it to him. And dad was always gracious that way.

[C]

Now, when your dad originally started playing us so long ago, like. Like that's when guys were working in the off season and stuff, right? Like, I don't know if that was ever the case for him, but it was just such a different life, such a different world for professional athletes. Like, do you remember what he would do in the summers because training wasn't big? I mean, everyone's seen the pictures of him, just a naturally enormous human being. But do you remember his, like, off seasons then? And was it kind of just fishing and hanging with the fam and not really training and skating?

[A]

Well, yeah, but he used to go back home and his. His father, my grandpa Al, he. He was in charge of paving all the sidewalks and some of the streets in Saskatoon way back in the day. So when dad would go back home in the summer, what he would, he'd be lifting cement, cement bags all summer. And well, and his grandpa used to put him under pressure and they'd have like four 80 pound bags and he bet somebody said, I said, bet you my son could, can, can lift these all at once. And then he'd look at my son and, and he'd bet like a nickel or a dime, which ton of money back in the day. And he'd look at my dad, he said, kid, don't let me down. I think he had, I think he had a double hernia surgery a couple years later. But yeah, but dad was just a beast of a man and if anybody saw his hands, his hands are absolutely massive. So I know he, he spanked me one time and I deserved it.

[B]

It.

[A]

And it was just one little whack. And then I said, well, whenever I'm getting in trouble again, I'm going to make sure dad's out of town because those big mints aren't going to touch me again.

[C]

That's what caused the bowel block 65 years later.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So take us through because you mentioned you guys didn't really talk, talk much hockey, right? And all of a sudden you become a pretty incredible player, like a junior player. You're scoring 100 points. You go to the OHA at that point, point, a hundred points. And there had to be a time when, when he realized like, wow, like my son's, it's not just like he's just liking and playing hockey. He, he, he's gonna play pro. At that point, did he start kind of talking to you about the game a little bit more and, and helping you with your development, or was it always kind of you were on your own a little bit?

[A]

No, always on my own. So now actually that's one of the things that I appreciate the most about my parents was they let us experience life and learn life lessons on our own. And that dad's way of, you know, I, as a prime example, I don't mind telling stories on myself. So first game in the WHA, we play a game out in LA, we win the game. I'm just 18 years old now. I'm playing pro hockey. And this is back in 73. I'm making 125,000 a year and, and I'm living my dream. I'm, I'm, I'm getting to my dream and I'm out in la and boom, you know, we win the game well, I'm out having a good time and come back in the hotel room and have a young girl with me and go and have fun. Well then we then sort of don't get much sleep and I had a couple maybe too many drinks.

[B]

The old work.

[A]

Oh yeah. And so, and now you, now you hop on a plane at 8:30 in the morning, we fly somewhere and then we fly into Edmonton, we land at 3 o', clock, we have a game at 7 o' clock that day. And so yeah, I'm tired, I am hurting a little bit and, but like I said, everything is so new, so exciting and I was, the only thing I was kind of ever taught was when somebody's coming to run you over, try to run right through them, like, just don't back down. So I think I'm like third shift of the game or something. They had a big sentiment Jim, big Jim Harrison. And sure enough I had my head down and boom, I don't, I never saw him coming. And he went over my glove, my helmet, everything went, went flying and I was half cold turkey. And this right near the end of the first period, we come in and they always had me sit next to dad in the locker room and all dad did was he just kind of looked at me like this. He said, well, did you learn a lesson? I go yes sir, I did like, and that was his, that was his way of saying, okay, you realize what you did last night is not acceptable and you learn the reason why. So yeah, so that, but that's how I learned, you know, learn my lessons from, you know, from, from my dad. Most of my mom was a little more direct, but that, that had more to do with life lessons. Not so much playing hockey but, but the door were always, was always open. I used to ask the odd time. I remember playing with the Marlies the one year in Toronto and I, and I was playing really well and I was skating good and this, but my chances weren't coming. There had been like five or six games in a row and mom and dad came up, up to watch and, and so I asked my dad, I said dad, just if you got a pointer for me. I said I, I, I'm skating really good, I'm into the game and, but things just aren't clicking. I'm not getting the opportunities. And he, so after the game he said well, you're, and I played left wing till I was you know, like 24, 25 in my life and I was, I was like 15ft off the boards. So now I'm coming down the ice, so I'm lined up directly with the defenseman. And so dad pointed out, he said, you're just making that guy's job that much easier year. So he says, get your ass over on the boards now. You force the defense. He's either got to come to you, and then you judge if he comes too early, comes too late, either go, why you can cut to the middle, do whatever. And he told me that after the game. And I think I scored a hat trick and two goals and two more goals and other goals. So I had like eight, nine goals the next four games just from a single little tip. So, yeah, so, yeah, the door was open. We would have the odd interaction like that. Most of the time you could figure it out by yourself. But. But yeah, it was. It was. And I. And I. But I said, I. That's what I appreciated the most about my parents is nobody. They weren't harping on me. I never got pushed. Actually, my brother Marty was, you know, played pro for 12 years. He. He basically quit hockey one year because he loved football. And. But things didn't work out with football. And there was a game we were playing against. We're in Detroit. We were playing against Guelph. And he said, there's this guy in this other team. And he loved to fight him every time. And he said. So I told this football coach, I can't make practice tomorrow because I have to play this hockey game. And the football coach said, well, that's it. You're done playing football. And Marty was by far the best athlete in our school. And so then he.

[C]

Boom.

[A]

So that was it. He kind of made him play high. But my parents had no problem with it. It. So they. They just supported what we did. But every once in a while, you need a little. Need a little slap. And so we got a little slap when we needed it. But yeah, they. They. They were always there to support us.

[B]

When. When talking about your career with a few people, that's what they said. When you ended up switching from forward to defense, how it was such a smooth transition where I think that you ended up maybe even leading your team in points, even as a D man, what was the reason for the switch? Like, why did you go from a forward to a D man?

[A]

Well, actually, the. The first guy to ever put me on defense was. Was Bill Deneen when we were playing down at Houston, that was the fourth year that we played there. And the reason was because teams in the wa. You only had maybe 25 guys on your. In Your entire organization. And we had a number of injuries and with myself as well. I was coming off the shoulder separation and, but we only had, I think five defenses and the whole organization that were healthy. So they put me back there. I ended up playing with that fence and Paul Popeo. I played I think 32, 33 games, something like that, and I had 50 points and then boom, then I went back to wing the next year when we went up to Hartford. But when the leagues merged, I played the first three or four games of the year on left wing. And then we went into Buffalo one day and we're playing against the Sabers. And so in the morning skate. I played left wing in the morning skate. And then we came in for the game and I'm looking at the, on the blackboard lineup sheet and they had my name on defense and they had somebody else on the left wing. I thought the guys were playing a joke, so I went and erased, I raced the board and I put my name back up and they said, oh, you're playing defense tonight. The coaches came, I said, you got to be kidding me.

[B]

Me.

[A]

So I said, I wish I would have had one day to practice. And I'll never forget, my first shift was against Gilbert Perot and my defense partner pinched in the puck came out and I got Jill Bear Burrow one on one. And, and believe me, I, I, I think My shift was 15 seconds. Thank God he lost the puck. I land on it and I had to change. I was out of breath. And that's how my career started as a defenseman in the NHL. But, but it, but I, I loved it though. The only bad thing about it was my brother was a defenseman on a team and, and I ended up taking a lot. I ended up playing 30 minutes a night and when I was in Hartford as compared to playing 22 as a winger and I think as a defense and you can control the pace of the game much better. And so I, I like that part of it. But the bad part was I ended up taking minutes away from my brother and, and, and it was a tough job. I mean I could skate, I could do a lot of, I could pass the puck really well, but it took me a few years to learn how to actually properly play the game. I play the position of defense.

[D]

Mark, you mentioned in the beginning you were making 125,000 in the WHA. Yeah, kind of a two part question. Was that one of the reasons why you went to the WHA instead of the NHL? And what was a rookie salary in the NHL at that time compared to. To the 125.

[A]

Well, Gordy was playing in Detroit. He had retired two years previous in his 25th year and also his 24th year, he made $100,000 a year. So I get offered a contract, just sign my name. I get 125. But in actuality, because that was. We were fresh off the Memorial cup win in Toronto. I had just turned 18, I won the MVP, and they're off me 25 grand more than what Gordy had ever made in his lifetime. But I wanted. I felt I needed another year in junior, I guess mostly for maturity reasons. But actually, dad. Dad said to me, he says, look, if I have to, I'll break your arm. Sign the contract for you. And it just kind of said, oh, okay. So. But. But the reason was. So. But at the time, so especially being US Born, if you went to Canada and played junior hockey and I got my $10 a week expense money, but once you went to Canada, you're considered professional, you couldn't go play college hockey. You couldn't. You know, I ended up playing in the Olympics the year before, so I couldn't have played in the Olympics. And so. But the WHA they decided they wanted. They used to have a. In their draft. Part of it was a professional draft draft. And they went under the assumption that, okay, the NCAA considers the Howboys professional because I made $10 a week. So, yeah, so they are available for the professional draft. So that's how we got drafted in the wha. I remember my dad called the people at the NHL and he said, look, I'd like to come back and play. I would like for my kids to be able to come play in the NHL. And the NHL just said no, because you had to be. Be 20 years of age at the time. Oh, and yeah, so you had no choice. I mean, like, great. Probably the best player, I think a junior time with Dennis Pot, then who could easily come out. I think he spent five years in Ottawa, but he. He had to play five years a junior. And once he turned 20, and then everybody knows what a great player he was. But yeah, you had to wait. But the WHA provided that opportunity for, you know, guys like myself, Marty, they had the baby Bulls down at Birmingham. I mean, Langway, Napier, then, you know, Gretch played Indianapolis, Mass. Played in Cincinnati, and Mike Gartner was in Cincinnati. And a lot of really good players got the beginning of their career in the WHA just be. And I think it was maybe three years later or something like that. The NHL finally, finally changed and then you could draft players at 18.

[B]

Did the NHL make you guys feel as outcasts at that time? Like it was, was it kind of like a PGA live style of thing because they went off and did their own thing or, or was it pretty cordial?

[A]

No, it was, it was. I think it's very similar to the live thing. So. But in the way I looked at, I had no choice. It was either play in Toronto or go to the WHA and, and play in the same team as my father was kind of a no brainer. And actually that year I think it was, I, I appreciated my father as a hockey player better than, than I ever did. And I used to watch so many games. But he won the MVP of the league and, and to me the league was kind of a hybrid of the American League and the NHL without the, the, the high end stars. There weren't the, no Ovechkins, no Crosby's, no those kind of guys. But there was Bobby Holes and Lee Gordy was there. There was some pretty good players, but not the elite guys. And yeah, Gordy been retired for two years. It's like I was watching Rivers come out of retirement to play a few games this year and I go, it's not that he was 44 or 45. I said the, the hard part was like he'd been out for five years. Marty and I saw what it did. Gory is the most phenomenal athlete I've ever seen. And you know, during training camp in Houston, actually Marty and I, we went to my mom and said, we're, we're really concerned at dad. I mean, we didn't know, we didn't know red could be that purple in somebody's face. Like, and here's, here's a man that has incredible stamina. And so we build an income overhead. A chat with mom and dad, and I think it was maybe About a week, 10 days later, I couldn't keep up with the guy. Just absolutely incredible stamina and. But he came back and he won the MVP that year, the league, and I think he could have won the next year. And to me that's the most amazing thing I'd ever seen in sport. And I was the one who benefited. So Gordy played right wing. We had a senator named Jimmy Sherrit and I was the left winger. So yeah, and it took, it took took me about three months actually to really adapt. Marty, Marty fit into the league quicker and adapted quicker. Took me, I would say two to three Months. I give Bill Deneen a lot of, a lot of credit because he, I didn't play any special teams play early on. Then he started to give me a little bit of PK time and then finally got me on the power play. And I think by that time then I started to feel like I belong, belong to pro hockey.

[B]

Was Gordy fighting at all then or was like there a bubble around him where guys wouldn't go near him just because of his status? Like what was.

[A]

Well, I'd say you guys should have more. You should, you should get my brother Marty and if Marty's so good at the, you should give, maybe give him one or two of the pink Whitneys. You get them going and, and but I remember the first exhibition game we were planning Houston, well with Houston but I think we're playing in Greensboro somewhere in the Carolinas or something and, and I, I don't know what to expect. I'm 18 year old kid and you know, you remember you're 18, you're just so nervous, you're so excited to be on the ice and you just, and you're focused on what you're trying to do. And all I know is they dropped the puck and as soon as the puck dropped the left winger who was lined up next to Gordy, guy drops his gloves and he starts coming at Gordy. Oh yeah. And what do you, what do you think Gordy did he two handed. This guy just split his forehead right down here. Guy was, guy was out cold turkey. And I'm like, you know, okay, you got me out of my little days that I'm in. I'm kind of like this. Well then Gordy does five minutes in the Pali box, comes out next shift, boom, they sent another guy out and another guy's standing there and he's running, he's wanting to drop his gloves but he's not going to drop his stick. And he's trying to slash Gordy's stick out of his hand. Gordy finally knocked right across the side of the face. This guy goes down. So. Oh it's honestly God's truth. And so that's how he established himself. Well you. One of the neatest things about being a son of Gordy Howe is no matter where you go from Bob Yor to Wayne Gretzky to all the greats, the great to the greats and all of them, them, they all have their story of what Gordie Howe did to them and what to the, and a lot of the. And it was, and I witnessed some of It. And I. You know, it was frightening and. But I would say 99.99% of the time the difference is, if somebody else did that to you, you probably hold that grudge against him for the rest of your life. With Gordie Howe, Marty said it best. He goes, it's like the player. You wear that with a badge of honor. Like, here's what Gordy did to me. So, I mean, that guy walked into

[B]

every bar he ever went. Do you say, see that scar right there?

[D]

Every guy looked like Chief Coach Barube, right?

[C]

Now hear my speech impediment. Gordy gave me this.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, Chief with a great teammate. No, Yeah, I love him. So.

[B]

Bit my hand off.

[C]

So. So mark that. So your first two years, Gordy came back and Houston, you guys won it all, both years, which is pretty cool for you to get two championships. And then he's like 48 years old. But was there any talk of retirement, or was he like, oh, I still love it. I'm playing with my boys. I'm still producing, like, 100 points, 99 points, 102 points. He's 47 and 96 points when he's 48, like, there was no need to retire because he was still so good, I'm guessing.

[D]

Right. Did your mom just never want him around?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Well, that might have been. I don't know. No. I do remember one day in Houston, and it was a first year, and dad looked. Dad looked at Marty, and I. He goes, this. This game is not meant to be this fun. I don't remember it being this fun. And so that's when he's 45. 4. And he. He loved the game. He just had fun. It was his place to be. And. And like I said, he. He was absolute mountain of a man. And, you know, like I said, his. Stan, I've never seen it with the stamina he had, but his passion for the game and his love of the game is. And even when. When he retired in Hartford at 52, he didn't want to retire. He really did not want to retire. They had him. I said, and he was so good at 52. I say this all the time. They had him on the fourth. So now there's a year that was the year I got moved to defense, the first year that the leagues merged and dad was now centering the fourth line. Nick Fatilla was his left winger. Nick Fatillo got 10 goals that year. That's how good Gordy Howe was. And. But dad still had 37, 38 points.

[C]

You know, 41, 41 points that year.

[A]

41 point. Yeah. Like at 52 too in Belia, like and it was. And yeah, he had slowed a lot and you know, I think it hurt a little bit and I'm not blowing my horn here, but you know how you play with certain guys and sometimes you just have incredible chemistry. And it seems odd because between a father and son it should be natural. But like, I don't know, like he made the game so easy and we never had to talk on the ice, we never had to do this and that the only thing ever used to say was if the puck, somebody did dump the puck in which he hated to do. But if somebody dumped him, he says, you get in there and it says you, you create havoc and then get your ass out and find a, find a soft spot, he said because he would read where the puck's going and he always, he won every one on one battle. Cause he was so much stronger. And then you better have your stick on the ice cause the puck's coming. So he made the, he made the game so much easier for me. But yeah, but even his last year then, you know, I think the team Harper came to him and, and they wanted him to retire and it was, it was really hard on him. So like I say, you think about it, you, you played hockey all those years and, and yeah, I think getting out of the game was a little tough. But yeah, I, but and I mean I look at what Tom Brady did and you know, in his 40s and obviously on a different stage. But, but to me what Gordie Howe did it end at 52 and playing in the National Hockey League is pretty amazing thing.

[C]

This is a, a couple part question, but the picture of, of Gordy with the stick around Wayne Gretzky's neck when he's, you know, 8 years old or whatever it was. Like you mentioned, Gordie Howe was everyone's idol. Who did he ever mention like who his idol was with? And granted this is back so long ago you can't even really watch NHL games, but was there somebody that he was growing up maybe in Saskatchewan that he looked up to or kind of taught him the ways to do everything that he ended up passing on?

[A]

Well, I don't recall like to me I know he had a lot guy. I, he was really good friends with Johnny Bauer. I know a couple of summers we went up to Bobby Hall's ranch. I, I did laugh. Dad. Dad always said he had so much respect for, for all the other players in the league. I kind of had a little side argument with him going. I watched you play against some of them. I'm so sure. I'm not so sure you respect him that much. Much. But he. He did. He. He loved the camaraderie and being on the ice and. But, yeah, I think a lot of the guys that I. I think were from the west and he got to. To watch grow up. I know he really admired Jack Adams when he. When he first got to Detroit, and. But, nah, he just. He grew up. Like I said, I think they were in the town of Florida. I think they had five homes. Homes, and. And that was it. So they, you know, and they had nine kids in the family, and. And actually the first pair of skates dad ever got, I think it was about four or five, and. And they had no money at the time that. It was in the Depression. And some woman came by and she had a bag full of stuff, and, you know, she said, you know, do you have any money? So I think my grandmother scraped together $2 and gave the woman $2. She gave her the bag. Inside that bag was a pair of skates. And so my dad took one. His sister Helen took the other one. I think about a month later, dad finally wrestled it away. And that's. That's when Gordy became a hockey player. And. Yeah.

[B]

Are you kidding me?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

What was Gordy like in the room? Was he. Was he. Was he kind of talkative? Was he one of the. Or was he more quiet and just taking it all in?

[A]

Took it all in. So, yeah, on the ice, in the locker room, never. It never had anything to say. He. His actions. His actions spoke volumes. So. And like I said, he. You know, it's not. Not very often that he had much to say. I know you guys would probably would have loved it. I know as a kid growing up. And we'd be in the car, we'd be in Detroit heading down the Lodge Freeway, and the odd time dad would look at me and he'd say, well, keep an eye on so and so tonight it would be a player from the other team. And I. Whoa. I'd be sitting in my seat in section 7 and just be licking my chops. And. And I remember one night, he said, oh, keep an eye on Keith Magnuson. I don't know what Keith Magnuson did, but, oh, my God. And I go to the game and. And it's right near the end. The Red Wings were not very good, and Chicago's beating them pretty bad this game. And Stan Makita's taking the draw. And they get it to Magnuson in. In the defensive right corner. And Gordy's lined up on the slot and Magnus against. He puts his head down. He's skating like this. He gets to the back of the net, and Gordy just fires his elbow bomb nails right in the face. And he's. And he's pretty well out on his feet. And then Gordy grabs him by the back of the head and he slams his face down on his knee. Oh, yeah, well. And he got two minutes of roughing and two minutes for elbowing. And. And so now we're in the car. I'm not saying boo. And we're about halfway home, and dad looked all he said to me, looked at me. He goes, dad, did you see that? I go, yeah, I saw it. Like, didn't see it, but yeah, but he. Yeah, he had the memory of an elephant. And, you know, God forbid, because I. I've seen a couple guys that he. He had it out for, and if they're doing something really bad, then, yeah, they. They paid for it physically. And normally it was something in their face.

[D]

And.

[A]

But he. Anyway, but I laugh even so, like, Davey Keon, one of the great player, played with Davey in Hartford as well. And David is one of the cleanest. I had 104 penalty minutes in his career. He used to have his patent, a little hook check. And Davey, we're having lunch one day, and he said, yes, I remember first time I played your dad, he said, I come up, boom, hooked the puck away from behind, it took off, and David came to the bench and all the players said, oh, better watch out. He goes, he's. I've watched. I've watched Hockey Night in Canada. He goes, I. I know not to take. You know, not to hit Gordy. He said, no, it's. Gordy just doesn't like it when you take the puck from him. And so then it happened again. And all the players. Now Davey comes to sit on the bench, and all the players kind of, whoa. They spread out. Davey's kind of sitting on an island, and they're saying. And they're. He's going, what are you doing? He goes, we don't know how, we don't know when, but you're going to pay for what you just did. 1970. Oh, yeah. And so Dunkirk, I guess we have later in the period, I guess Davey goes to do it a third time. Well, dad had a real short stick, but like. And even though he went to. Went through grade eight at school, pretty Smart individual. He said, well, he took a stick and then moved his hands forward and, and put the puck maybe a foot farther in front of him. So now Davey had to reach longer. So now he's going like this. Exposes his chin. Gordy takes his right hand off and just rifles it. Davey wakes up in the hospital and all the players go, we told you like, but, but, and why you, you asked Wayne. So Wayne, Wayne was telling me, actually it was at my dad's funeral. Wayne was telling me that when he was playing with Indianapolis when he was 17. And he did same thing. He took the puck from Gordy, turned around, he said, maybe about a second or two later, Wayne's laying on the ice. He said he thought his arm was broken. Gordy looks down at him. He said, kid, don't ever take my puck again. And Wayne says, leave me, I'm not doing it. But that, but that's how Gordy kind of, he did this, this, this little thing and even created space. Oh, big time. So I, I remember. So I'm playing in Philly and with a great goal scorer and Tim Kerr, and Tim was scoring I think 40, 45 goals a couple years. And so dad's down there, the locker room one day, and Tim goes, oh, can I beat your old man? Can I see? Yeah, come on over. So he comes over and my dad says, oh, Tim pledging me, says, can you do me a favor? He goes, sure, mister, How, Whatever you want. He goes, because he says, next time you're on national tv because all the games weren't on tv. He says, you know when, when you're standing in the front of the net. Tim was 2, 32, 32, big strong man with soft hands. And guys used to just cross check him in the back of the neck, back of the head. He says, next time a guy's doing that to you, you're on national tv, I want you to drop your glove and just smoke the guy. And Timmy was such a mild mannered guy. And Timmy goes, okay, Mr. Howell, by anything. About a month, about a month later, playing the New York Rangers. I, I don't know if it was Tommy, Layla or somebody. They're hitting Timmy from behind. You couldn't move him anyway. Timmy drops his gloves and just starts wailing on the guy. Yeah, but that's what go. So Gordy, but he had the mindset that this is going to, he said, you have to do it on national TV so everybody sees what you're doing and they might think you're a little wacko. And realize if I do this next time I might be the one getting the punch in the face. And he said, it's going to give you that much more time. By having that much more time, you're going to score that many more goals. And it's true because then Timmy scored 50 to 55 goals, I think four years in a row after that. But it's just brilliant. It's brilliant stuff that most, most people would not think of.

[D]

You talk about all these crazy sticks to the face elbows. But his penalty minutes weren't that crazy. Were the refs afraid to give him a penalty that like he would spear a ref in the face too? Because, like, like his penalty minutes aren't that crazy. His highest ever was 109.

[A]

Yeah, well, you used to be able to get away with a little bit more.

[C]

That's 500 now.

[B]

The other team sentiment was like, just throw it to him off the face off, please.

[A]

Well, I guess somebody asked me, they said, how Gordy doing today's NHL? I go, I said, he couldn't play. And they go, really? Is the league that good? I go, no, he'd be suspended the entire time. So, but, but he was talking about, I remember back in the day with going way back and he was telling me about when Red story and some of these guys refereeing. So you're going back in the 40s and 50s, pre my time, and if you had a young guy come up and if somebody was doing something that. Taking liberties or doing whatever, they let the game, they let the game get policed by the players and the referees just kind of put on their blinders and they said, okay, the player, the players are going to level, level the playing field and they're going to take care of it on their own. We don't need to call all the penalties. So. Yeah, but it was. Even in my day, I used to laugh. So I'm going to the Stanley cup finals. I said it wasn't getting a slash in the face or two or three stitches. If it wasn't at least 10 stitches. There wasn't a penalty. It wasn't called. And I know I, I liked it that way. I would rather have the players decide than in the referee. I referees and we all hate them, but they, they have a really tough job and, and I think the last thing a ref would want was to call a penalty on somebody and it results in a power play goal and you win a Stanley cup in a game seven. I, I don't think that's good for anybody. And so, yeah, but back in the day, yeah, obviously the, the referees had a blind eye to everything.

[B]

I mean, we've, we've mentioned that great depression in this interview. Train rides to games, which is, which is just nuts to think about. You mentioned how he, he wasn't much of a talker before games and even during the games. Game. Now, a thing that I loved about back then, even when I played his post game pops, was he, was he the type where he would go with the boys and have beers and, and, and that type of stuff?

[A]

Well, not really. I mean, not from the time that I knew when I would go to gain and throughout if my dad had more than two beers, maybe once or twice in his lifetime, you know, and he, he learned a long time ago and he pointed this out to me in Houston as well, and he'd say, look at this guy, look at this guy, look at this guy. He said, they're. They're creeping to 30. And he goes, you're 18. He goes, it's now when you decide how many years you want to play, because if you take care of yourself, you're going to be able to play a lot of years if you don't take care of yourself. He said, with the exception of very few people, by the time you're getting 30, 32, your career is going to be over.

[B]

Over.

[A]

And I didn't always listen to him, but, but it was true. And I think that's how kind of he led his life and that's how, you know, and our. It was that way at home, too. I remember one time, I think we. It was the first year they had the igloo in Pittsburgh and one of the trainers for the Red Wings was sick, so I ended up being the. I got to go on the road trip. It was around Christmas time, and so I was the assistant trainer for the Wings on that day. And so the team flew in. I think they were getting $20 expense money. So the guys are running to McDonald's or something, and then they'd go and sit and there was a go go bar. And. But I'm sitting there and guys are having a beer or two, and I'm just kind of watching. Then a girl comes out with her go go boots on, and dad goes, oh, time for you to get out of here. So. Yeah, but it was. No, I never, I never ever saw my father drunk. Never saw my mother drunk, like, so they, they generally always took very good care of themselves that way.

[C]

He was almost ahead of his time.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, because back then that wasn't the thing. And he knew he could see ahead. But I want to, I want to ask a couple things about your career after your dad retired, when you got to the NHL, because you get on the Flyers after the Whalers and yet some incredible teams. I mean the two cup finals, and I'm wondering like when you got there, we were you, were you appreciative of like the NHL? Like yeah, I'd been in the wha, but this is different. This is kind of a level above and the WHA is no longer around. I'm pretty happy now that I'm getting to carve out my own career at the highest level.

[A]

Yeah, well, so we, we went through that. I mean, you grow up. I know I grew up and I see said, you know, my lifelong dream was to play in the National Hockey League and win the Stanley cup. And you know, so now I'm in the wha and after four years, part of our deal was we were free agents and I'd been draw. I'd been drafted by the Boston Bruins and oh my God, I wanted to go to the Boston Bruins so bad and, and it was just dying to go. And, and at the time they offered me, they offered me A, a five year contract that paid 230 grand a year. And I'm like, oh, like this is grand. Plus I wanted to go, but, but if I went to Boston, Gordy would have had to retire. And so, and because Gordy wasn't going to play against his sons and this and that. And so in the heart for Whalers, they offer us a deal that, where Marty, dad and I can still play together. And you know, and for me it was easy even for less money, but I was still settling to stay in the WHA because I wanted to get to the NHL so bad. And I, and I had a chat with my mom and we spent about five, 10 minutes and yeah, it became pretty obvious and yeah, I just, I would never ever regret, not this, the, the seven years that I played with on the same team as my father and my brother. But yeah, so that, that was always there in the back of my head. And then a couple years later the leagues merged and I, my career started out in Hartford. Like I said, I played defense. When I first got going, I was learning and learning and, and I think the second year I think I was seventh or eighth in scoring in the league. And I went through and things were good and I went to a really bad injury. I got skewered on in that and you can find Anything in the world on YouTube where you can't find my injuries.

[C]

So almost ended your career, right?

[B]

What do you mean skewered? What does that mean?

[C]

Like.

[A]

Yeah, well, the way the nets used to be, where you had the. You had the pegs and then they used to come to a point right in the middle. And the nuts were designed for the puck to hit and deflect into the netting so they didn't go in and out so quick so they wouldn't miss the goal. And so, you know, I was sliding towards her net and I had John Tenelli and I kind of collided and I lost my balance. I went in, so. And I had a bad back my whole career. So I put my feet up to absorb the shock with the net. And as I did that, the middle part of that net came up and it's like a spear. And what it did, it went in, it scraped my rectal wall. I came up and thank God I was just on an angle. It just missed my spinal cord and it basically came out my right hip. And I ended up losing. I was down like 22, 23 pounds or whatever for the longest time. And I came back and played six weeks later. I shouldn't have.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

But you only have. But back in the day, that's. Those are things you, you did. And Mike Rogers with a heck of a player too. We both got hurt with within the same time because we were eighth place overall in the league. And then I think six weeks later, we're in 18th and so in the top 16 would make it. So. Yeah, you're trying to come back, you're trying to Play. I was 170lbs. I was a weak noodle and. But that precipitated things happening where the management became unhappy with me. I was unhappy with me. I. I was not a good hockey player. The next year. Year I was still only playing 178 pounds. And so I think, you know, it was today's game. Yeah, I probably wouldn't have played for probably three, four months at least. And. But then things became very unsettled in Hartford and so I kind of requested a trade. They couldn't get rid of me fast enough and I, I gave him a 10. I said, the Ranger, the Islanders, Bruins or the Flyers trade me one of the. Because I had a no trade. I said, give me one of those four games. And as it worked out, I got traded the Flyers and absolutely loved every second that I played there. And because the way I was taught how to play the game and it's all about team. Didn't matter who gets all the goals, who gets the credit. It's all about team and, and, and good character. And that was the organization, especially back in the 80s. And yeah, being, being a part of those teams, being in the National Hockey League and, and, and by stroke of luck, like I said, so I played basically about a year and a half of defense. I went through that bad injury and. But when I came to Philly, a guy who I've always credited was Eddie Van Imp. And Eddie Van Imp form a flyer. And Eddie, if anybody watched him play, like I could skate circles around Eddie with one skate on, I think. But with Eddie playing defense, if you got anywhere within 2ft of that net, you were going to leave 6 inches shorter. You feel like one of the hardest, toughest guys you've ever seen play. And he used to come out, he says, like, he says, you're, you're, you're in the running for the Norris Trophy. What am I going to teach you? And I said, Eddie, I, nobody's ever taught me anything about playing defense. So I used to play the games and then on Prism, which are now Comcast and Xfinity, they would replay the games at one o'. Clock. So after the game I'd go have a couple beer, bite to eat, drive home, get home at 1. And I used to watch the replay of the games and there would be four or five or, you know, hopefully only one or two where I made mistakes in the game. And I would have to sit and watch that whole game till it got to the point of where I made a mistake. Then I try to analyze what I did wrong and that's how I tried to learn how to be a better defense. And Eddie Van Imp told me how he played the game within his limitations, physical limitations. And so I use, he gave me those guidelines. And those guidelines helped me so much positionally and helped me with the way I thought the game. So now instead of wasting all my energy chasing people around the rank because I'm in the wrong position, now I'm in the right position and all I gotta do is read and react. Boom. And actually help my game offensively as well, because now you could save your energy for offensive offense. So Eddie Van Imp was instrumental in my career and, and, and also I had a great defense. My first partner was Glenn Cochran, who absolutely loved, and God rest his soul, and, and then another, God rest his soul, my best friend from hockey, Brad McCremen. And then I, and I played with Shel Samuelson. Who probably some of you guys know as well. So, you know, I, I was very lucky. I had three, three great partners when I was playing there. And, and you know, a couple of you guys play, Ryan and Keith, you guys play defense. It's not a one man show. It's. It takes a team. And every day of practice, you know, we worked hard together as a team or as, as a pairing and that's what made us better.

[C]

Was it just like staying inside the dots kind of a little bit. Like was he just talk positionally wise would Van Imp just talk about not running out to the boards when he didn't need to? Little things like that, protecting the middle of the ice?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that and positioning your hips. So like if, okay, if I'd be backing, backing down so you got a, you know, three on two, whatever. I'm backing and I could close gaps pretty quick, which wasn't really a thing back in the day. Now it is. But as I'm backing and if I turn myself on an angle here and I'm backing, if I'm going towards the corner, if I pivot, I can pivot 180 degrees when I'm pivoting and I'm heading towards maybe where the line is in the, on the boards, in the corner. Now if, and playing at £186 or whatever. So now if I have a bigger winger, if he has any kind of leverage on me, he's going to beat me because I'm going against him. But so Eddie would say, okay, you might be able to move sideways like that, but keep your, keep your hips straight. Either straight or towards the net. So you're kind of going like little sideways and by doing that. So now when I pivot, now I pivot for the near post and I don't care who it is, they weren't going to beat me to that near post. Post. Wow. And so, and it's such a tiny little thing and you know, so. But yeah, and then he used to teach me about the players and he said, boom, puck pops out of the offensive blue line, they got a two on one and instantly goes, who do you want to shoot? And I go, okay, I want this guy over here to shoot because he's got four goals, you know, over here has got 25. So I would instantly run, I would run over to the guy that's got got 25 goals and he had thrown it to the guy who's got four. Then I sit there and so I'm playing the odds, I go, okay, it's a. And he'd say it's not a two on one, it's a two on two. But I'm giving my goalie the best odds to make that save. So it's simple little things that I, I never thought about. But that's part of, I think the experience of defense. You by, you know, you're improving your skills, you're improving your ability, but also you're, you're improving how you think the game.

[D]

Game.

[A]

And you know, so you see, he said basically you as a defense and you dictate who you want to shoot the pot. So. And I check the game notes.

[C]

Check the game notes for game notes.

[A]

Yeah. And there's some, some guys can score from. You know, Brett hall can score from 40, 50ft. Reed Larson could score from outside the blue line. Alma Guinness. So those are the guys. You had to have a tight gap when you're 60ft away with a lot of guys, they can shoot the puck from 30ft all day. And also if you got an outnumbered rush, he goes, just keep the guy wide. And if he shoots and scores from there, I'll get you a different goal. You can stop the pot. Do you do your job? Let them do their job.

[B]

And so yeah, Gordian to figure that guy out.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. But he helped me a ton.

[B]

Not many guys go from being a forward to, to being up for a Norris. Do you know, do you remember where the highest you finish in Norris voting at any point in your career?

[A]

Probably the closest I came would be my first year in Philly. And the way I looked at it, I was a better defenseman the year, the first half year in Hartford. Like I was seventh or eighth in scoring at the time in the league. And I, you know, I was 25 or what. I was really on top of my game and, and just starting to really blossom. But in Philly, to me, it was more of a team thing. And actually I think I was kind of the favorite coming down to the last maybe five, six weeks we were playing a game, I think it was Chicago, and I fell on a skate. What I did, it kind of, it cut some of my kidneys because I was bleeding for about 10 days. So they, I wasn't allowed to do anything for, I think it was two weeks I sat out. But it took me probably three months to get my energy levels back back. And I think over that three months and my game had gone down a little bit and Rod Langway won and every. But, and, but they brought him, they brought Gordy in to present the Norris that year because they, everybody thought I was going to win it. So Gordy was disappointed. And then I got interviewed and everybody saw my guys. It's terrible. But I said, nah. I go, I'm playing on a team. And at the time I was only playing 24, 25 minutes a night. I go, go, this is a team concept here. I go, what Rod Langway did, he got the Caps into the playoffs, say, or Rod lang was playing 30 minutes a night. I go, he's more valuable to his team than I am to my team. That's how I looked at it. But I, I do think if I didn't get hurt that year, cut my kidney, I probably, I probably would have won the next another year. When I had my best statistical year. I think it was 86 or whatever. McCramman and I were part, we used to last plus 85. I know I had 80 something points. But McCramer and I every day and I never read papers, but we look in a paper, just see what Paul Coffey did because Coffey broke Bobby Orr's record that year. And Brad and I together, we were trying to keep up with coffee. If cough didn't have that year, then I, I, I think I would have won that year too. But I think I was, I, I laugh because I think I was one of the finalists for the MVP with the Gretz and Mario. And I'm going, yeah, okay, they just threw this guy in there. But, but no, I like, to me I was more about team. And, and the one thing I used to do in Philly is whenever you made an all star team or you won an award, I think you used to get like a $2,000 little reward from the league or whatever. And so I instituted the rule that if you won a league award that you, you got to keep half the money to give to Uncle Sam, the other half you had to treat the team. So love that every time we used to go to la, I used to take the boys out to El Toritos and we'd hit a happy hour out there for about four or five hours. And yeah, so because you're not winning

[B]

the cement bags around your hotel room like all that.

[D]

Go, go girls.

[A]

We, we get back through and I'd have Brian prop hitting. We're at the LAX Marriott and Brian Prof. Would be hitting golf balls out off my balcony.

[B]

So yeah, I know I, with Philly, Ed Schneider like and what he meant. Very few owners had that much of a connection in the locker room and would come down. So I don't know how many guys back then, but yeah, especially for back then. I just wanted you to touch on him and what he meant to the organization and maybe a reason why you wanted to go to Philly to begin with.

[A]

I wanted to go to Philly just because I, I thought they were one of the best teams in the league. And, and I won like, I won national championship every year growing up, won the Memorial cup, came second, the Olympics. I was, I wasn't used to finishing second. And then we had two years in Hartford. We didn't make the playoff. I hated losing. Didn't necessarily love to win, but I hated losing. And the, the four teams and Philly was one of those teams and, but yeah, they, Ed, Ed Snyder still to this day, for guys who played here, yeah, he, he's the reason why in, in I think the way the organization was and if somebody was there and they didn't fit into the mix, they were gone in a heartbeat. You didn't, you weren't necessarily the most skilled or talented player, but you had character and you competed for the guy next to you, not for yourself, but for the guy next to you. And you know, and then that tradition was instilled in Bobby Clark and, and I had the opportunity to play two years with, with Clarkey and that's, that's how Clark he was and he was dedicated to the team and everything else. And then that kind of filtered down to the next generation. Dave Poole was the next captain. Dave was a prime example of that. So, but, but it all started with Ed Snyder and, and what I loved is he just had, he had a passion for the game, like, absolutely incredible. And I think it was, I think in 80, 85, first time we went to the finals and we, and we lost. We got beat up pretty bad by Edmonton. But after Ed had a big party behind his house and I remember it was half raining out and Edit had a few cocktails and he was happy the way I was playing. And he come over and he's going to tackle me. Well, stubborn me, I'm going, you're not going to tackle me. I'm not going down. And I remember getting in the car, going home later, I said, oh, I should have just let him take me to the ground. The owner, I know by a stubborn me, I couldn't do it. No, but, but I love that I, I, I, he com. I'd see him come in that room and boy, if we had a bad loss and oh, he'd be just steaming. But to me, I, I Love that passion. And, and Mr. Ilitch in Detroit was very similar where, I mean, they. They're all about team victories and team win. And I don't think you can win unless your owner, your ownership is bought in 100%. And. Yeah, and both of those owners were. And it's felt, especially Ed Snyder, they're bought in 100% and they just wanted to win.

[D]

You know, they meant a lot to Both those guys, Mr. Ilitch and Ed Schneider. Ed Schneider, you know, they meant a lot when, you know, people still now are still talking about them, them, still thanking them in their speeches and what they meant to those teams.

[A]

So that.

[D]

That's amazing.

[B]

And were you, were you around when they would go to that bar that ended up burning down? And then they all wore the. The arm bands. They had this place they would go to after practice that was.

[A]

Well, that was Rexy's Bar, I think. I think that was Rexy years ago. The. The old, the Broad Street Bullet guys. That's where we went. We went to. We call it the K Mart. It was Kaminsky. So. Yeah, it was right across from the rink, right? Well, no, not. Not the High. There was a. Actually back in the old wha. When the New York Gold Blades folded and they came down, they had to play like two months in Jersey and there was. There was a rig. They played at Jersey. And then, I don't know. Like, I know some four years later, I'm playing in Philly and I'm sitting in this bar and I go, oh, my God, I remember that ring. We played there years ago. But yeah, I think the Rexy's Bar was fairly. I think it was just over the river from where the Spectrum used to be. And I think it was. It was just in Jersey, maybe a

[D]

lot of people don't even think of you as being an American guy and playing on the Olympics. Just kind of want to get your thoughts on the Olympics this year.

[C]

Who you.

[D]

Who you like? What do you think USA is going to. Going to do it this year? Or do you think Canada holds strong?

[A]

I think it's going to come down to just a break here or there you go, one simple play. I mean, you go. Or a matchup. I mean, mean, look, last year there was an icing. They couldn't get Eichel on the ice. Matthews takes a face off and boom. And the puck ends up in the net. And when you have international competition like that, it comes down to one play. But I think at the US Guy, if you learn little lessons from those little things. And when you're at that level of competition, that's what the difference is. So. So, I mean, I love when I was 16 and I got invited to go play on the Olympics in Japan, and like I said, you know, what a great experience for me, I kind of like it better. I think it's better entertainment when you have the best players in the world. But I liked it better when it was more amateurish, because to me, the greatest victory I think, that I've ever seen was the 1980 team and the upset over the Soviets. You know, I don't know if there's anybody had anything to do with hockey in the US who didn't think it was such a phenomenal thing.

[D]

And.

[A]

Yeah, so. But what made it so great was you got the devoted Soviets that are just kind of dominated international hike because they had basically the best of their best, and you got a bunch of college kids coming in there. And I think they would, if they would have played 50 games, they won the one game that they had to. And to me, that's what makes it so great.

[C]

We know kind of what you're up to as you get older and you're done playing and all that. But I'm curious for Gordy, did he end up going, like, would he go down to Florida in the winters, like, as, as, you know, his life got older and he got older. Was he playing a ton of golf when he retired? Did that stay a big part of his life?

[A]

Well, I used to. Used to do the. Do some public appearances as. Now, my mom was always busy doing stuff, but they used to go down to Siesta Key every year. They used to rent a place for. For two months, and I usually did it near playoff time, so I never had a chance to go, but my kids would go and, and all their grandkids, and they used. They used to get a couple condos and bite people down. So they did that every year. And. But, you know, then my mom started. Actually, my mind died from a disease called Pick's disease, which is a form of dementia. But she started to get ill, I think, when she was maybe 57, 58 years of age. So it hit really, really, really early on in life. And dad basically dedicated his life to taking care of his wife and my mother. And, you know, I just show. And that's what was important to him. And all the peripheral stuff didn't matter. But. But every year I know I had somebody's. Had boats down the Virgin Islands and for Christmas gifts or, you know, like I said, I've had a 40, 43 foot sport fisherman that I had for years, years, 40 years now in Jersey and did a ton. But I used to buy plane tickets and this and that. And so I used to bring my parents down or take them on different vacations. And we did that. And then after mom passed and I was in Detroit and I kept on the caregiver that my mother had, I kept, kept her on for about three months, five days a week just to be my dad's companion. And I, and I would, I would, I changed my schedule because I used to go to, I would scout out of Detroit usually about every three to four weeks just to spend a little time with dad and, and I went in one day and he's looking at a team pitcher from 46. Oh, and he, he looks and goes, he's dead, he's dead, he's dead. Then he pointed to himself, he goes, I might as well be dead too. I go, whoa, dad, time out, time out. So I called. It was great in Detroit and being in scout with the scouting and I, I could adjust my own schedule. So I quickly changed everything. I called Marty in Connecticut and I said, here's what happened. I said, if I don't get dad out of the house, he's not going to be around long. And so I rented a car, drove back to Philly, had him live with me for about two months. But then I told Marty, I said I got to start because the Redwings were still in a Western Conference at the time. So I said I'm basically to be gone for almost two months travel, so I need you to take care of dad. So we would switch dad back and forth. But then what we did for the next eight years or so, Marty would always schedule a trip down in Florida. We'd go to Islamorada with some friends we had down there. We'd take Dad's and I just had to have a game or two on my schedule down at Fort Lauderdale. And I'd go spend four or five days down there and Marty bring him down and, and we go sail fishing for, with the, our friends at Philpotch. And then, then in, like I said, in the fall when I, I'd have to go to training camp up in Traverse City, I'd ship Dad off to Connecticut. But as soon as I got back, I said, I did, I did all my games at Bridgeport, Springfield, whatever. And then we would go straight bass fishing and then I would get him all summer long. And so, and he loved fishing. I get him out in the water. We'd do our own clam and everything else.

[B]

House.

[A]

And so. And there wasn't one day that went by the rest of my dad's life that he didn't wake up and he didn't have either. Marty, myself, my younger brother Murray. And you know, for about a year or so, my sister.

[B]

That's unbelievable.

[A]

So that's a family right there. Yeah. And you need it and you can't like. So I'm kind of going through the same thing here. So I've been. February 16th, I think it'll be five years since Sharon got her injection. She's needed a permit. Permanent. Permanent help. And. And everybody saw you're a sacrifice and this. I said no, I'm not sacrificing anything. I'm. I'm with the person who gave me more emotionally than anybody else in my lifetime. And I'd have to be the most selfish individual in the world to. To give that up to take care of her. And yeah, it helps me to get out and run a little bit, but I have help. I mean I would not be able to do this without help. And so. So I do this and. And then. And I book free time with my family, with my kids, my grandkids. And then I know what. The Flyers alumni is really strong. Brad Marsh has done a superb job here and they do a lot of things with the Flyers Warriors.

[B]

Oh yeah. We went a bunch of years ago there. He. He does an incredible job. Remember we went there.

[A]

Yeah. And I sort of. I tried it to most everything I do. They have the Gordie Howe Cares event up in Calgary every May to raise money for all. For nurses for Alzheimer's. And then. And then we do a ton of stuff with the charity my mom. Dad created the Howell foundation. So. So basically, you know, I'm here taking care of Sharon, but whenever I have free time, it's with family or it's doing charitable events. That because. And that basically was started by my mother. My mother always wanted to give back more than what they received. And so. And it's. And we've been lucky. I think dad passed I think like nine years ago now. And we. We've been able to raise little over. I think we're like 550,000 we've been able to donate and we're trying to go to locate. We've done some stuff down in Houston. We did a real nice donation up in Saskatoon where dad's from. And trying to work around the country where mom and dad had some impact or the Community impacted their lives and, and it's been great in Philly with the Snyder Hockey and Snyder Foundation. Anybody wants to donate. So every dollar that we donate, they kick in too. So I think we're, we're, we're a little over 300,000. So between the two of us together, we're close to a million dollars, which maybe in some worlds doesn't mean a lot, but I know from my mother it would mean a lot to give back to other people. And like it kind of boils down to, yeah, my grandmother gave up $2 and got a pair of skates and one of the greatest hockey players, if not the greatest hockey player ever came out of that $2. So we hope someday we can, we can do that for somebody else.

[B]

Getting to play in Detroit and it kind of come in full circle, like getting to end your career there. How special was that for you? And the fact that you grew up, you know, watching your father play for the Red Wings and then finally getting to dawn that jersey.

[A]

Well, yeah, it's pretty, it was pretty special. And actually I, and I love playing Philadelphia. So I was here 10 years. Unfortunately I went through back surgery and I really struggled with it afterwards and, and I tried to play within a month, which was a dumb thing. I think it cost me time, but eventually got to the point where I felt I could play pretty well. 60 games and, and it came kind. And like I said, I'd never won a Stanley cup as a player and that was my goal as a kid. I wanted to win a Stanley cup. And I knew at the time Billy was in a rebuild and, and I had to go somewhere. So I put a list of four teams together and I had a good friend of mine, Ed Feren, I said, here I'm just calling four teams. If I can't land on one of these four teams, I'm staying at Philly because I like. And so the New York Rangers gave me a one year offer. Lou lamarillo called me from Jersey. He said, if you're seriously going to the Rangers, please give me a call back. We don't want you going there. I called Detroit, asked for a two year contract and they, they got in the mix. But the team I actually wanted to go to was a Pittsburgh Penguins. And so I put in a call and Red put in a call for me and they never returned my call call. And I, I felt it was the best chance and so, and, but the most natural fit was for me to go back home to Detroit. Detroit was second on my list and, but and by far the best thing I ever did. So I, I spent 29 years in that organization and what a great organization and. But yeah, so, so I had three. I ended up playing three more years instead of two. Well, the Rangers won a Cup.

[B]

Cup.

[A]

The Rangers won a Cup. Yeah, well. Yeah, well, at least I'll, at least I got to the finals of my third year and we lost to the Devil. So when I went to Detroit, Detroit had so many great pieces, but my take on it was the locker room just wasn't great yet. They didn't have everything in play. Guys were still learning how to be, how to win. And with Scotty Bowman came there, that kind of changed a lot of, a lot of minds, a lot of attitudes, dudes. And Scotty got that thing put together and Steve Isa became the great player that he was and was Sergey Fedorov and, and I was roommates and partners with like. So they brought Brad McCremen and I in there to, to play with some of these younger guys and I guess we taught him what not to do and, but we played with Nick and Blatty and got the room with these guys and just wonderful, wonderful human beings. But yeah, they, they. And then once Scotty put this little tweak on the team and between Kenny Holland and Jimmy Devilano, they built a heck of a team. And yeah, and the rivalries they used to have with Colorado, I, I still think they're the best I ever saw in hockey. But yeah, it's, but that's how I ended up in Detroit. So when I, and I went in, I. They gave me a two year playing contract and a two year, two year contract to begin working off the ice. So I knew I was guaranteed four years there because my oldest son had just started high school and he was cursing me every day for moving and my daughter was just starting middle school, so I didn't want to move my kids real quick. So we moved to Detroit and asked my son, my oldest son, who did not want to move, still lives there. So. But yeah, it was, but it was, it was. I was very fortunate. Things worked out in my favor. But. But I think the first exhibition game we played was against the Penguins and Craig Patrick was sitting on the bench and I knew Craig a little, but I went up, I said, why did you never return my call? And he said, we knew we couldn't afford you. I said, this was, I said, this wasn't about money. It really wasn't about money. I wanted to go win a Stanley cup and. But, yeah, but I never regretted the fact that I went to the Red Wings and in part of the fact that, and even my brother Marty to this day said, I wish I would have wore, I wish I had a chance to play in a Red Wing uniform one game. And so I don't know if you guys ever heard. So the story my dad told me, I think it was about a month, six weeks after I retired, dad comes out to me, he goes, boy, I wish you would have worn my jersey one game. And I said, why didn't you tell me this when I was still playing? So, so when I was fortunate enough to get in the Hockey hall of Fame and that was the first thing I thought of, I said, well, I'm going to wear Gordy's jersey for him up on stage. And yeah, so I kind of made up for it.

[C]

I think, Mark, this has been just, just incredible. And I think the stories of, of your dad and your own career, like the main takeaway for me is your family like that is, that is incredible to hear how close knit you guys were and what you meant to each other and what you're doing now.

[B]

And what you meant to the game.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And what you meant to the game. So, so this is, this is an all time interview. We can't thank you enough.

[D]

Yeah. And really do appreciate sharing all these stories because I think it's so important for the younger generation to keep hearing these stories of what your dad meant to the league, what you meant to the league, and to hear stories from. Yeah, to hear these stories from you. It was incredible honor for us and thank you so much.

[A]

Yeah, thanks for all the memories, getting a chance to watch you guys play. So a lot of good stuff, stuff, some funny stuff too. But no, you, I, y' all had great careers. One thing dad always said, he goes, look, there's only 6, 700 guys that play in the league. They're the best in the world and have a little respect for all of them because they're good at what they do and everybody had their role. And yeah, it was, it was a great, it was a, it's been a good game to a lot of people. I know you guys can say that, I can say that. But as you get older, the thing that I appreciate more is family, the family in the background. And, and I know my dad gets so much credit, but without a doubt, the backbone of the Howe family was my mother, Colleen. So she, she was his strength. And I, I'll give you one more Gordy story. So just before we end, so I Always beat Marty home from school. So I used to run home. Marty always took the bus. But I ran home so I could play hockey more in the driveway. I came home one day, Marty's sitting at the kitchen table and hanging his head. And I go, marty, what's going on? He said, well, he said, kid at school is making fun of dad in the Red Wings. So I popped him in the nose, and I got suspended. And so. So my mom. We had a split level. Her mom comes running down, and she thought it was dad. So she comes down, she's yelling at me and yelling at Marty, and back upstairs, she goes. About two hours later, dad comes home from practice. And so dad goes, what's going on? When my mom hears him, she comes down and she's giving dad hell. She says, yeah, you teach your kids violence, you teach them this word, you teach them this, you teach them that and everything else. Dad's just blindsided. Mine goes running back upstairs. And so dad looks at Marty, he goes, what's going on? He goes, says, dad, he said, the guy sitting behind me in class, he said he was making fun of you, making fun of the Red Wings. I told him to stop. I'm going to pop him, he said, and he started cutting you up again. So Marty turned around, popped the guy, broke his nose. So dad's sitting there and he's looking at the stairs like this. He goes, oh, the Marty caps. I'm on the shoulder. He says, good job. So.

[B]

What an ender.

[A]

I know. So Gordy. But. No but Gordy. Gordy led by example. But my colleague, my mother, Colleen, was the backbone in the family structure. And you can't replace family. They're. They're what life's all about. And as you guys know, you get in a really good lock, right room. They're your second family. They're. They're lucky. But I had a fun time and enjoyed it.

[C]

Thank you so much.

[B]

I just want to. I just want to say one thing. And when. When Gretz had his goal record broken by OVI and just that whole ceremony, and then Wayne basically saying how Gordy treated him when Wayne broke his record. And I. I mean, I'm sure you were around for all that. And I just thought it was so cool about how he passed the torch over to Wayne. Wayne. And how Wayne was able to pass it over to OVI and just how cool that that whole thing wasn't hearing the background to it. And also how. How your mother gave a gift to Janet and then Janet gave one to ovi's. Wife as well.

[D]

So just setting the example.

[B]

Setting the example. And there's a reason his name's Mr. Hockey and a true legend of the game.

[A]

Yeah. So, yeah, because I remember texting Wayne, I said, yeah, and I really appreciated him bringing up mom and dad and, but like I said, I, I remember at dad's funeral, I, I actually, I wasn't sure who felt worse, me or Wayne. I know how hard it was on him and Gordy was his idol growing up and. But yeah, Wayne's been an incredible, incredible hockey player and love playing against him, even though I got embarrassed a few times. But, but yeah, he's, he came along when the game really needed somebody and he's been, I think, a wonderful ambassador for the game. And yeah, like I said, just one hell of a hockey player.

[C]

Mark, thank you so much. Once again, we appreciate it. Have a, have a great rest of the day and good luck with everything.

[A]

Yeah. Go out, shovel some more snow. All right, guys, see you again.

[C]

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[B]

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[C]

Thank you so much to Mark. How I really want to sit down with him again. Because biz you said it like that was. There was plenty more in the tank and the stories and bar. Everyone knows about Gordie Howe's toughness, right? Like Mr. Hockey, the Gordie Howe hat trick. But Mark Howe coming back after getting split in the rear end by the net and coming back that quick and the amount of time people would miss now, like apple doll doesn't fall far from the tree in terms of toughness and just a great dude, man.

[A]

It was.

[C]

It was a blast to talk to. And was it. I think it was his son who had been telling him he's got to go on, right? Is that what he said? It was so long ago. I don't.

[B]

We did that appearance in. In Philadelphia or maybe I'd went back back when I was doing a big deal brew. What do you call it?

[C]

Like a Paris big deal, bro.

[B]

Rip, baby. For now. It's on the shelf. For now.

[D]

Pinky's down.

[B]

Yep. Forsy down. But we. They, they. It was like throwback night. And they. And he was there and I'm like, oh, we'd love to get you on. So I'm glad we finally did. And yeah, he should be on. He should be on once a Month for all the stories he's got.

[C]

Keith, shout out Brent Burns, okay? You are now third all time in consecutive games played. He passed you this week. He is now 74 games away from passing Phil Kessel as the iron man. And boy, this guy coming into the league as a forward, then he switches to D. He's playing played forever. He's still playing at a very high level on the best team in the league. He's an amazing person. We got to sit down with him a while back, I think it was West Coast Wagon Tour out in San Jose.

[B]

We did it outside of his house.

[C]

We did it outside of his house. And he just, the way that he's kind of gone through his career in terms of like, takes the RV all summer with his family, works out in Walmart parking lots.

[B]

Well, he used to. And then he bought a ranch in town, Texas.

[C]

Okay, okay.

[B]

Now he's got like a thousand acre ranch in Texas. He like.

[C]

Well, it was all part of the streak.

[D]

It was all the Brock Lesnar of the NHL.

[C]

Brock Lesnar. And I don't know if we've told everyone we sat down with Brock Lesnar that that interview's coming out soon and it's incredible too. So fired up for some interviews coming. But man, Phil and yourself, while both incredible players, very offensive players, right? Not overly physical. Brent Burns is kind of a different beast to be approaching this. And you know, knock on Wood here, 74 games remaining. But it's just insane that he's played this many in a row the way he's gone about playing his entire career. So I want you to speak on how hard it was for you. And listen, I, I, we, we've already both said that you weren't a physical player like I was Scott Stevens. And you played about eight hours after losing 10 teeth and after breaking your foot. And so you went through a lot. But he's, he's played a different style to make this happen.

[D]

Yeah, 100% and all, all the credit to him. And I, I go back even to Cogliano, the way that he played, you know, a guy who was, had the race for a long time. Even when I had it, I was kind of like, it's Cogliano's, it should have been his. He got that one game suspension. But those guys just play a different game, an honest game. They're, they're not flamingoing when a puck's coming in. Like, you know, maybe I was, they, they're, you know, first on the forecheck, their first back getting the Puck like Brent Burns is one of those guys who. He's a big body and he has to. To play against a lot of guys that are big bodies. And he's battling every single night. Everyone's trying to hit him every single night because remember him in San Jose, like, how offensive he was, but he wasn't giving up anything defensively, just playing hard in all three zones, you know. But he's also one of those guys, too. Like, you never knew what was in his backpack. You just knew how dialed in he was to his game and being ready to play and getting his body right. And there's. There's no. There's no mistaking of why he's able to do this because he obviously puts in the effort. He puts in the effort on the ice and then off the ice as well. So complete credit to him. That's unbelievable accomplishment for him to do that, the way that he plays, for how long he's played and like you said. But it doesn't look like he's stopping any time now, especially on that team, if he's able to stay there for the next two or three years, even though he. He's 40 years older. Is he 40 yet?

[B]

Yeah. Boys, there's three guys left. The oldest guys in the league were from my draft right now, 19, Perry and Ovies in 85. But he was a late birthday, so he actually wasn't my draft. So two guys from my draft left, three of which are 1985 born. And I don't know how much time O's got left. I think him and the worm are going to be the last guy standing.

[A]

Timing Burns.

[D]

He seems like he hasn't slowed down. He slowed down the least out of anyone at that age.

[C]

I think a worm might be worms. And it goes back to the conversation before the interview. One of the reasons that Perry is continually being given contracts and playing is because if anyone does something to a teammate of his, he'll fight him. He'll spear him. Like that is Corey Perry, buddy, like,

[B]

fought off the opening face off against Buffalo, didn't he? I just say, hey, welcome back, boys.

[C]

41 years old, 41 years old, or whatever. So, yeah, shout out Brent Burns. And it's incredible. And before we get to the Eastern Conference race biz, I was a great conversation on tnt. We've had a lot. It doesn't have to be long here, but looking at the Central and looking at what The Western Conference first round would look like if it was 1 through 8, I'm completely on board now. Like I don't get this. And granted, granted, I gave Colorado the Central a couple weeks ago. Dallas is three points behind them. I think they haven't lost in regulation since the end of January. Right. Is that the 16?

[B]

And it's crazy, especially no Ratnan like that is. It's nuts.

[C]

It's nuts. So me giving Colorado division was stupid. Obviously I said it. And the opposite happened. And just looking at the fact Minnesota, they lost to Toronto, they've lost, I

[B]

think three loss home games. Games. Three games.

[C]

So every team's going to go through a little bit of a cold spell here. You don't want it to have, you don't want this to leak into the playoffs. You can hopefully get things figured out. But Buddy, the way you guys showed it on tnt, like Minnesota right now would get Utah. That would be the 3, 6 matchup. Right. And it's a lot more fair to them. And Buddy, Utah could, Utah's a fun team to watch. That wouldn't be an easy out, but whether it's Colorado or Dallas, it's like, come on here, man. And, and, and the Oilers would have to pay for where they're at. Right? They would end up getting Colorado, I think first round right now and. Oh no, that would, I think Oilers would end up with Dallas, I guess.

[B]

But, but, Right, but, but getting punished for not having a good regular season, as it should go.

[C]

Yes, exactly.

[B]

So I just, I think it goes down to a few things. You. Hockey, you could argue between football and hockey are the hardest sports to play. Play 82 games is a lot of games compared to 18. You know, maybe if you're a lineman or a running back, it's a different situation. But to have to play 82 games and go through that schedule to not be rewarded if you're finishing second in your, in your conference to play and you all of a sudden get delivered the third place team, that's ridiculous. You could have literally the second and third, third place teams in the overall standings in the league. And keep in mind, these teams played majority of their games against western team matchups. So they had an even harder regular season than the eastern teams. Okay. On top of the travel and you got jobs and livelihoods at stake. And if you're an owner of a team like Minnesota, you haven't been out. I think they're, they're, they've lost their last eight first round matchups. They've been out. So you have the opportunity. You make these trades to make your team better. You take, you know, a stab at spending even More money on the cap to put a better roster together and all of a sudden you're, you're finished third place in the league and you're starting the, the playoffs on the road. What if they get beat in, in, in five or six games? Let's say six games, you get three home games. Think of how much gate revenue you're losing out. Where. Let's say they get Utah as a first round matchup up and they bring them to six or seven games. Well, if you go seven games, you get four home games. And even if you end up meeting Dallas in the next round and you lose, fucking what? What do you think? What do you think a team like Minnesota pulls in on a playoff game?

[C]

Two million bucks.

[B]

How much?

[C]

Two million.

[B]

I would say on the low end.

[C]

Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe three.

[B]

I think Edmonton's pulling in like seven or eight million.

[C]

I know, but every single fan has a jersey.

[B]

Jersey. That's true, that's true. But it's just like to me like for that reason and, and jobs being at stake, if, because if you're, if you don't get past the first round and, and you're at the helm for three, four years, they're going to look to make a change. Right. Maybe not Billy G, because of the grace that he has and everybody obviously knows he's very talented at what he does, but majority of GMs, you'd be out the door or, or, or that GM would be being pressured by ownership to say, hey, hey, something's up, we got to change the coach. So jobs are at stake when this is going down. And I just don't understand why we're playing a hardcore 82 game schedule if it means nothing in the seating.

[D]

They did, they did this for, because they wanted more matchups in your division. They wanted those, the rivalries right. In the playoffs and getting shit going.

[B]

But it's like I think they wanted to ensure that you would get the Pittsburgh versus Washington, which they got in the second round. Right. Which were these iconic matches, matchups and series. Well, then you got, then you got Pittsburgh and Carolina, four game sweep. Then you got Florida and Carolina, four game. Four game sweep.

[C]

So yeah, they've ruined. Yeah, they've not ruined. But the, the conference final is never as good as the second round.

[D]

Yeah, usually the first round's the best.

[C]

Yeah. Which, which will, which would remain the same one through eight. The first round is still the first round.

[B]

They're still going to be the fourth and fourth and fives. The, the even the three and sixes like there's still good matchups and also the probability like we saw when, when Boston was taken down by Florida, like that was an iconic series.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I think that I, if they want to stay stubborn and they feel like the way they're doing it is better for the overall like revenue side of it, I guess it's like maybe

[D]

hard to argue, but why not try it one year? Try it.

[B]

That's. I've been.

[C]

And you've already done it.

[D]

You've done it.

[B]

Yeah, boys, I've been beating this drum. They, they, they'll throw the tradition in your face. Well, they just moved it to 84 games. Yeah, do. Hey, you know how I said move it to 76 games? Why not do, why not do a best on best year? Remember, Remember how I said move to 76? People said, oh yeah. You think they're going to give up that gate? Well, why don't you try to do the play ins in that year? Why don't you test it one year where you open up the open two

[C]

out of three or one game playing?

[B]

I think you do two or three.

[C]

Yeah, but, but all at the higher seed.

[B]

What do you, what do you mean?

[C]

So, so if, oh, so no travel. If 10's playing 8 or whatever it would be 10's playing 7 and 9's playing 8. The 8, the 7 and the 8. They get, they get all three home games if it goes to the third game.

[D]

I like that.

[B]

Okay, so 7 and 8 would get the home games against the, the, the 9 and 10.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah, I like that.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

I bet teams would like that too. I mean if you're an owner. You like that.

[C]

Yeah. And the, and even the owners who aren't getting the gate. Well, hey, we got to win two games on the road and then we get, we get at least, at least two home playoff games.

[B]

Yeah, but also you could work out a system where it, it becomes a kitty in a pot where it's, it, it's, it's a collection where all owners benefit from this. That's why I said do it in a best on best year year, especially the one that you control like throw the Olympic year in the toilet. Okay. Because you're not able to, to generate, generate any revenue. They do not pay the NHL or the owners for borrowing their high end talent to go grow the game. And I can get the frustration from the ownership side on that because they're using their assets to go better. I think it's a, that's why I lost my mind about the Rink situation. It's like, oh, the Olympics. You're going to fucking treat hockey like it's peasantry and not have the rink and focus on that like. Like it's not your biggest asset. How many other. How many other sports had 20 million people watching it? Maybe. Maybe some of the figure skating. The. The two man ain't getting 20 million people watching it. I'll tell you that for free. But that course was done on time.

[C]

I didn't miss a minute of that.

[B]

But on the year where you're controlling best on best and you're able to monetize that with which you should be, based on what we just saw at four nations and Olympics. Do a lower. Do a lower amount of games. Focus more on in conference Play. Do the 1 through 1. This case, 1 through 10 seating, where 1 through 6 would get the buy. 7 through 10 would have to play the playing round. That's where you get the extra gate money for the games missed. Because you're only playing 76 instead of 82, or I guess 84 in this case, because they didn't fucking care about tradition when it meant more dollars in their pocket. And do it that way. Do it one year in 2028, as we're going to get to in our next conversation, when they're controlling the best on best, doing the World cup of Hockey. Test it out, see how it goes, and let's fucking roll, baby.

[C]

If you love it, if this happens, biz, it could be your Mona Lisa. It could be your Mona Lisa. So. So staying with the west, quickly. There's one team. There's one spot left, boys. I think everyone. And God damn, I might do this again, but I think Utah's in. And then you got Seattle, San Jose, Louisiana and Nashville fighting for the eighth spot. I just can't say enough. And I don't think anyone listening that isn't a fan of those teams can. Can disagree with me that, like, we need San Jose in this. And what Celebrini did, incredible. It's just if they get in the playoffs, he's MVP in my mind, 100%. If, if, if he's. I mean, the excitement that that team has. You go back to the Eklund goal in Boston, and I did get in a little on Twitter. I kind of thought Duchenne's goal against the Oilers was a little bit better. Yeah, a little. Batting it out of the air, obviously looks beautiful, and he was falling over as he did it. But San Jose is just. It's just incredible hockey to watch. And what Ryan Wasofsky's done there is amazing. And shout out that team. And no offense to Seattle, LA or Nashville. We've seen LA in the playoffs. Nashville credit to them, they were down and out. They're somehow in the mix. And Seattle is Seattle. Your guy is. Is actually lighting it up there Biz MC Matthews. So we'll see what happens in the west. The East.

[B]

Did you see that goal? Well, he set up the one celebrity knee by outmuscling and out battling. I think it was when they were playing in. In.

[C]

That was the Montreal one.

[B]

Was it Ottawa that he. That that he set his guy up?

[C]

Back door they lost to Ottawa, but I think it was that game.

[B]

Right. Okay. And then even against Montreal, the, the. The goal that Celebrini scored his release and how he. He almost sells it. Like he's going cross body like glove side. And how he's able to push the puck and. And and like create deception as unreleased and he ended up scoring blocker side. I think that that one was on who was in that? I don't think it was dovish. Who's the other guy?

[C]

It was Fowler.

[B]

Fowler the Unfowler. So he is just remarkable. And I agree if he, if they make playoffs, he has to be the mvp. He has to.

[D]

Even just, just seeing the way that he plays. Like his game is built for playoffs. Like how just the Energizer Bunny, he's never given up on pucks. He's always in the mix. Like we need to see him play. Even if you know they go out and play Colorado get swept in four games like just to have him on center ice while the playoffs are going on. Like it's a no brainer. But the only thing like LA fans could make an argument because you want Kopitar in for his last year.

[B]

And congrats to him boys. Good, good segue Yance. Yes, you man.

[C]

Kopitar has become the all time leading scorer of the Los Angeles Kings. The guy, the guy has done it on both sides of the puck forever. He's a Hall of Famer. And it is crazy to say like always was like the Patrice Bergeron of the west. Like probably an overall more impressive career. I mean the offensive dude, look at the offensive numbers, Keith. Look at the 90 point seasons and like how much this guy's been able to do with right. Like yeah, it's a great teams there but like it all changed when he came in. It all changed. And just a 6 foot 3 dominant set of iceman that's been able to do it with one team his entire career. And I mean a lot of, a lot of expectations coming in first round pick, but to then see him break the all time record for points by that team, it's just amazing. Like, and I think that based on what I, what I've seen, like, obviously first ballot hall of Famer, like no disrespect to Patrice Bertrand, but it was the same type hockey with a little bit more off offense. Yeah, Bergeron have added more offense if he wanted to. Maybe he sacrificed a little to be even better defensively, but the guy's just, he's got 1308 points, boys.

[B]

Yeah, no, like he's, he's better than

[D]

Bergeron and yeah, you know, me and, me and him, we drafted the same year, came in the same year. We played against each other a ton. And one of those guys that you just always had respect for because like Bergeron, like Kopitar, like Barkov, if those guys wanted to cheat the game a little bit and be more offensive and, and you know, try to get 100 points every year, they could easily do it, but they just put the team first. Even you saw his goal to break the record. He's celebrating with his team and all he says is now let's go fucking win this game. Like, he doesn't care about his thing. He's just a team first guy. Very respectful on the ice, played hard, but he was never doing anything dirty. Like if he, if you had your back turned, he was yelling to let you know he was coming. Always enjoyed playing against him just because of how respectful he was for the game, you know what it meant. And I saw an interview with him, he's like, you could never tell, like a young kid from Slovenia. Like the fact that I could even stick in the NHL, even though I think he was 11th overall. Like for him to even stick in the NHL and then to break this record of a, of a LA Kings legend like Marcel Dion, like you could just tell how much the game means to him and you know how grateful he is from a small country where, you know, it's not a hockey first

[C]

country, like moved to Sweden when he was young. Young, I mean, and, and like the, the top five there, I mean, it's Anjay Kopitar, Marcel Dion, Luke Robitaille, Dave Taylor and Wayne Gretzky in terms of all time points. So it's just incredible. And another guy who, he had a prick side to him. He was a big moose and he wasn't, I don't think anyone would be like, oh, he's a dirty player, but he didn't take any shit.

[D]

No.

[C]

Once the playoffs came, I mean, he's just a big body that like you couldn't really move around.

[B]

So his ankles are, are, are like this big.

[C]

Yeah, the opposite of mine.

[B]

His like between like his, his personality, the way he carried himself, his work ethic, his game. You said like sacrificing offense to, to like have a better overall game, yet he was still putting up like 90, 100 point seasons. I would say that him and Barov to me are very similar. Like that would be more of the, the, the eastern comp than, than Patrice Bergeron on his gear wear the tinted visor.

[D]

He's even the raccoon eyes that he has. It's just him.

[B]

He looks like a vampire. I think he is a vampire.

[D]

No, he is. Yeah, he is.

[B]

He's like Count Chocula.

[C]

Another surprising. Or that wasn't surprising because he was bound to do that this year, but surprising news from the other California, Southern California team. Mason McTavish was a healthy scratch on Sunday. Troy Terry came back in the lineup. He actually had three assists. They beat, they beat Montreal, but I don't know, like Mason McTavish. Like, I think maybe a little bit of a slow year. Kind of surprised to see him scratch though. And I guess biz, it might make sense if you did hear rumblings of like him and Minikov for nice.

[B]

Like that was. I. I'm. I've. I've. I believe I've gotten confirmation. Why are you doing Pinkies up.

[D]

Troy Terry did not have a hit in that game.

[B]

Pinkies up.

[D]

Hey. Yes. Still alive.

[B]

Stay loyal, Troy. Don't us.

[D]

Come on, Troy. Troy.

[C]

Hey, if he's getting three apples, Quenville's like, no, we don't need you to hit.

[B]

We're on. We're on OVD zone, start watch. And Troy, what do you think's gonna happen first?

[D]

No, he had a goal and two assists wit in that game against Montreal.

[B]

Oh, oh, he just posted this and I. And on the chat here and I saw this, this. McTavish's analytics and under the hood numbers are, are horrendous. He's also from my understanding, a little bit chubby and maybe out of shape. Now sometimes some of these guys, it takes them a little bit into their pro careers to work off the baby fat. You know, he's kind of already got the chubby cheeks. So some guys have a little bit harder time, harder time than others to like shed the, the body fat and, and I don't know, man. Like going back to Verbeek and Quinville, they seem like no nonsense guy when it comes to, hey, if they like you, they like you. If they don't, they don't. We saw that with Trevor Zegras and they, I don't want to say they make it miserable, but they kind of let you know it's like you're not our guy. So it's either he's going to take a big look in the mirror and, and probably hearing rumblings that his name was on the trade blocks so he can go back and have the best off season training of his life and come back with a new attitude and a new perspective and. Or he ends up getting dealt in a new situation somewhere else.

[D]

But were we not talking about him being the next captain of that team?

[B]

I think last year? Oh, I don't know if I said he's in the next.

[C]

I think we were like throwing out options because he plays hard like old school.

[B]

I like the way he goes to the net. He does play hard. Like he's got a. He does have to seem the wires crossed sometimes when he's getting pushed around a little bit and fucked with. But they got a lot of young guns and a lot of options there now, boys. So if you're not picking up your slack, they'll fucking move you. Just like we talked about. And just like Zegras, there was that contract back and forth and when Verbeek's getting questioned about the money he wants to hand you, he's not happy.

[A]

So he's got a war of 9% which is, is real bad.

[C]

He's got a 1% EV defense and

[A]

J Fresh Hockey describes him as a slow skater, a non factor in transition, poor defensively, shows flashes, but a lot

[B]

of work to do to become a

[A]

top six SETI forward. But if that's only if his production increases. So.

[C]

Okay, well that doesn't, that, that, that doesn't sound great.

[B]

Sounds like he's got a, a big off season ahead of him.

[C]

Yes, very true. And to the e. To the oh final thing. Ryan Smith in Utah, like he's. The rinks, the rink's getting better every year. They got the three year kind of enhancement each offseason to the rink. For the hockey viewers, he's just like giving out tickets to his suite. Like randomly he'll tweet out and give out tickets to random people who haven't seen a, a Mammoth game. He is exactly what you want in an NHL owner. It's really cool to see like him. He just loves it Biz. I do always laugh now when I see him like with contracts and anything like the money that he's spending on the Jazz, he's just like, this is,

[B]

this is, is a front wipe to him. He's like, Nick, Nick Schmaltz. Eight million bucks. Hey, sure. Like, let me, let me see if I got this in my. Let me check my ashtray out here. Okay.

[D]

Our ball boy makes 7 million. And for the Jazz, like, we can give anyone but he. I think honestly, if there was no salary cap, he would spend as much money as humanly possible to get a win winning team there, 100%.

[B]

So, like, you know how we talk about the modernized coaches and guys adapting. Like, he's the, he's the prime example of ownership and how you have to be in order to attract guys and they want to be. He's given them out Utah Jazz tickets too.

[C]

Like, trying to kind of collabing with guys and stuff. Like, it's just different.

[D]

I talked to Wigs, he was like, dude, it's such like a family. Like, this guy cares so much about the play. Not just the hockey guy, even like the Jazz, like, he just, just. He bleeds like he fucking loves it. And you can tell, like he's at the games, he's wearing his emotions on his sleeve, sitting on the glass. Like, who wouldn't want to be part of that team?

[B]

So I'm actually going to be doing that with him. So I'm going there on the 26th. Thursday, March 26th. I was supposed to do a Nash cast earlier in the season and it got bumped back for whatever reason, but I'm going there. Me, Bob Heathouse and Nasher are going to be doing the Nash cast and then I'm going to spend a little time, time get the tour of the Delta center and the whole facility in Utah and, and see what's going on there. Man, it's going to be a blast. We're hoping to get both of you to stop by via Zoom on the National.

[C]

I talked to Nasher.

[B]

I'll be on there if, if you guys have time. No pressure whatsoever, but it'd be nice to get you guys on there and I'm really excited to attend that. And, and then the next morning with Nasher, we're actually flying to St. Louis to, to go honor Kelly Ch. Case in the puck cancer. They're going to have a charity game. So that'll be a, a great time just to kind of see everybody and, and go show support to.

[D]

Are you playing?

[B]

They, they asked me to play.

[C]

I a courtesy invite, like. Oh, you should.

[B]

I, I, boys, I don't know if I can. I, I might not put the blades on. I don't know. I, I, I just, I have.

[D]

Can you promise me one thing if you do play?

[B]

Sure, sure.

[D]

Don't do that Fake fighting. How they do those in the alumni games.

[B]

I already, I already did one against Cam Jansen last time we were there.

[C]

Yeah, but Cam didn't know it was fake.

[B]

That's true. That's true. You don't like the fake fighting hands?

[D]

No, no. And you know Cam Jansen wants a real one too.

[C]

Oh, yeah. He would do anything to get out there again and fight.

[B]

They should fly and boot us. And I'll take care of him for Matthews. You hear that, Radco?

[C]

I'm not scared of you guys. On the outline here we got is Ottawa too far out? I say no chance. Ottawa this weekend, boys. Montreal loses to an I'm in San Jose at home and Ottawa beats them both. First game, I think all Mark shut out. And then the next night, Sunday, they played him again, right? Like they're not playing rhyme or they're in no position to not, you know, give all Mark time. And, and he gave up four on like, I think eight, 20 shots, 22 shots. But they got the win. 7 4, Ottawa. Right now, boys. James Duffy had a tweet made me laugh. He's like, I don't know if Ottawa's gonna miss the playoffs or win the Eastern Conference and go to the cup final. Like, that's how kind of Jekyll and Hyde they can be. But if you look. All right, so they are, they're three points out of the eighth spot, which is the Wings. They got a game in hand, but they're five points out of the third spot in the Atlantic, which is Montreal. Now I, I think Otto gets in, dude, I don't know. Detroit, they got a huge point in Dallas. They were down to Dallas. Dallas doesn't lose games when they're up. I think it was two nothing and they ended up tying it. They lost in overtime. I definitely made an incorrect tweet saying it's gut wrenching loss for Detroit. Now the fans like, dude, we just got a point out of that. We needed that. I was more just thinking if they could have got the win ot, it would have been enormous. But I like Ottawa's chances of getting in. I, if Omar can play as well as he did against Anaheim, he doesn't even have to be excellent. He doesn't have to get shutouts, just have something there. They get in like dude, if you finish, if you finish, if you win the Atlantic or you win the Metro and you got to play Ottawa, like that's not, that's not something I'm dying for. If I'm a team who wins my division. So like their chance, I know they're, they're out right now. Now Detroit, let's see what goes on there. Boston, the race in the east is excellent. Even the Islanders in Pittsburgh, they're at 81. Columbus can catch them or the, the wild card spots. So I don't know if you guys think you're leaning into which teams are going to get in, but right now in the East, Buffalo safe. Tampa safe. Carolina safe. After that, boys, it's like I consider five spots available, maybe four.

[D]

If, if you're Ottawa, like you got to go to your goaltending and just be like hey, we're riding you the rest of the year. Like there's no.

[C]

I think he knows that.

[D]

How many back to backs? Maybe on the back to backs he doesn't play but he's got to play 95% of these games coming in.

[C]

But he played the back to back this weekend and, and dude, Ottawa would be them, them getting in and, and battling Toronto to then take the step back and not get in is that would be a disaster. A disaster. That's why I believe, I think Brady had one on one in the San Jose win. We'll see. I don't know Biz, if you feel one way or the other about Ottawa or.

[B]

Well, it'd be nice in Brady's last year to give them a nice send off and make playoffs.

[D]

True. I agree.

[A]

Guys, we got some breaking news here. Calgary, Edmonton and Prague will be the host for the 2028 World cup of Holiday Hockey. The NHL just announced good geography.

[C]

So hold on. You're telling me. I read these reports. I saw Stockholm, Calgary and Eminent. You're telling me that the kings of hockey, the United States of America were. There's no games in America.

[A]

Zero.

[C]

That's like I, I wasn't there a

[B]

game and at least I think that's a disgrace. You know why it's a disgrace? You know why it's a dispute sick for it. Hey, the Europeans are going to say oh we need games over here. You just got the Olympics and get the next one and then you got the next one in France. So you got your fix of best on best. The facts that they're not doing it after USA just swept the board. And even in sled hockey. A couple of clicks for the sled hockey Team usa.

[C]

Declan Farmer is going to be joining us this week or next. Boys shout out Team usa. Paralympic sledgehammer hockey team. Unreal.

[B]

And as a Canadian, I'm saying it's like Edmonton and Calgary is going to be an electric.

[C]

That's awesome. That's awesome.

[B]

But they should, they should. And another thing too, you do like afternoon like a little bit later afternoon games in New York or Boston. The people in Europe can still watch that at decent hours. Maybe it's like what an 8 or 9 o' clock puck drop over there if you're doing like a, a 2, a 2pm game. So I think it's absolute rubbish and I don't know why they made this decision if they're trying to grow the game over there. Well, like I just said, they just had it in Milan and then they're going to have it in France. They're going to have the whole tournament over there. The last, the last two Olympic best on best. So just absolute rubbish decision.

[D]

Correct me if I'm wrong. During the finals in Edmonton, memes had to stay in a hostel. Like they don't even have the room and board to take care of these. Like.

[C]

But I don't mind Edmonton.

[B]

They're going to be doing billet families for the players.

[C]

The Quebec peewee turns tournament. I don't mind Calgary and Edmonton because the building in Edmonton's insane. The Calgary building is going to be unbelievable. But then have like have like Philly and Buffalo or Buffalo, Boston and just you gotta give, you gotta give the United States games. That's the case.

[A]

Crazy.

[C]

And the tournament will be great and. Oh, I don't, I don't get that at all.

[B]

I'm interested to hear what like whoever made the decision, I'm sure it's Gary or like their whole team. Like why Tell me why there's no game in the States. Like talk, talk about a missed opportunity. We're talking about growing the game where it needs to grow in North America, specifically usa and you're not going to have any in usa. It's just dumb.

[D]

It's just I would do it in Tampa and Florida before I did in Edmonton and Calgary.

[B]

I think Edmonton and Calgary are incredible host cities and I think that Boston, New York should have been then.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's just so confusing to me.

[D]

Like it's New York too. You could play games on the island. You could play games at MSG. What the.

[B]

the. At posh's greasy building. The. The Presidential Center.

[C]

The Peru and you know, another Eastern team in the mix. I bring up Columbus has 14 of their possible 20 points. Do you know how sick it would be there? That's another.

[D]

I know.

[B]

Like.

[C]

Yeah, but shout out the Blue Jackets. They are not going away.

[A]

Let's.

[D]

Oh, another question on that World Cup. Is it going to be before the season? Like they. February during. Okay, okay.

[C]

All right.

[B]

February. So literally two years from now. And I think that that rink in Calgary will be done at that point.

[D]

Yeah, it has to be. Right. You know what? Can't do it at the.

[C]

I do know that. Tonight, as you're listening, on Tuesday, March 17, Happy St. Patrick's Day Day. Bruins, Canadiens. That's a big one. Columbus plays Carolina. That's a huge one. What else we got? Sharks, Oilers. That should be entertaining. I hope Leon's able to play in that. What else we got? Close, close. Seattle Lightning. So that's a huge game for Seattle. It's going to be an exciting finish here. That just kind of dampers my mood a little bit. No games in the United States. That's kind of tough news for the Washington Capital and the Chicago Blackhawks. I just saw. So Bu lost out. Tough year. Jay Pandolfo said, like kind of put some ownership on himself. Bu just had an off season. But Cole Hudson has signed Lane Hudson's brother, another second round pick. Actually, I was talking to his agent, Sean Coffee, and after Hudson, Lane went second round. What he's doing. And then Cole's dom has dominated for two years in college. Undersized defenseman. He said there's an undersized defenseman in the Qub Beck League this year. Let me get his name. I apologize.

[D]

Cushing boy.

[C]

No, this is a different. This is a different kid. Xavier wave. I'm sorry if I'm standing correct, but he's like, he's probably going to go top 20 now based on what teams are seeing, like the Hudson brothers and some undersized because you need puck movers. You need guys who can get up the ice, join offense. Like, that's the game now. So I think the success of Lane, I think Cole's going to be really good. I've said it many times. He's very different.

[B]

I got to see him play with you guys.

[C]

Yeah, he like, he runs around, throws his body around. Like Lane's more stick on puck. But he'll be in the lineup, I'm sure for Washington next game. And then Sasha boy there, who's a first rounder for Chicago, he signed as well. Kind of crazy. He wasn't even playing. He was healthy. Scratched for BU's first Hawk east tournament game against Vermont. They end up losing to UConn. He was back in the lineup. I guess he made. Missed the team lift.

[B]

I.

[C]

That's not. This is the kid who fought against Lowell earlier this year.

[D]

So I know he's physical.

[C]

Like, it could be. Could be a great pro, but kind of weird to see that he'd like missed a team lift and got scratched because of that. That's not a great look.

[A]

Wait. Nothing to worry about though. With bu, like Caleb Malhotra coming in next year tied in, Lawrence will have another year under his belt. Like, I feel like they're going to have a big bounce back season next year.

[D]

Is that Manny's kid?

[A]

It is. Yes.

[D]

Wow. Wow. Yes. You love seeing that. There's so many, like, yeah. I mean, we talked about Matt calling his kids, all the guys kids coming up now. It's going to be fun in the next. I know it's real weird.

[C]

It's so odd to see, like, I can't imagine what, what guys that played with Keith, like, all of a sudden like, oh my God, Matthew and Brady are here. It's just. But I love seeing it. Former players and their. Their kids who are making statements. Quinn Hughes, guys, he could. He could do something very Special. He's got 60 assists in 60 games this season. The last defenseman that did that's Paul Coffey. And the only defenseman in the history of the NHL to average an assist per game is Bobby Orr and Paul Coffey. So if Quinn does this, it's like, I just. I can't believe it.

[A]

I.

[C]

That. That is so ridiculous. To be able to get that many assists and the amount of minutes he plays, I guess it's not surprising. And now he's. He's got Caprioff and all the talent and boldy there, but I mean, even to do what he did with Vancouver the past few years, it's unreal. If he can end up with 82 assists, that would be something that, that we've only seen by two other guys in the history of the game. So once again, shout out the Paralympic sled hockey team. Men's Olympic, Women's Olympic, Paralympic, Men's Worlds, Women's Worlds, Paramens, Para Olympics, women's.

[D]

Just.

[C]

But we couldn't get a World cup of hockey.

[D]

What do we got to do?

[C]

What do we got to do? Biz what do we have to do, Gary?

[D]

And the super bowl is in Saskatoon next year too.

[B]

You're a idiot. Speaking of ridiculous, K Netov breakaway buddy in the khl. He's got a funniest thing I've seen in hockey in a long time.

[C]

Talk about not giving. I thought he was, I was like, oh, okay, now go. Now go, go. Nope.

[B]

Picture this. Picture the Picture the MLB shot clock. But add two hours on it and that's how long it took him to get to the goal line.

[C]

Yeah, it was like he was faced like all, if I go any faster, I'm gonna piss myself.

[D]

Hey, Wayne despises that, right? Like the going in slow.

[B]

I, I don't know. I don't know. I, I mean, I, I, we should get him on to talk about.

[D]

I feel like I've heard him talk about it, that he hates how guys come in slow and stuff like that. That he must have been losing his hest.

[B]

Comes in slow, but this, but then he speeds up. Yeah.

[D]

K's controller broke from the time he touched the pocket.

[B]

Looks like he's coming in like McDavid compared to this.

[C]

I wish that he, if he'd scored we, he would have done a faster arm flap for the bird celebration than he had skated in. It was. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

If you got some, I don't know how many of our listeners, like, don't. Like sometimes we have some old timers who don't really are on social media, but if you're not, like, just have somebody open up an app and show you how ridiculous this Kuznetsov breakaway was. If you literally.

[D]

That's showing everybody in the hockey world he does not give a flying.

[C]

Oh, no. I mean, this is the same league where a, you know, a guy's cell phone fell out of his pants when he got hit in the middle of the game. So nothing shocks you in the khl. That's why we love it. Final shout out. We talked about Detroit, but now It's Minnesota. Tony DaCosta, 2500 games.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Behind the benches.

[B]

Yeah. You had him, didn't you?

[D]

No, I missed him in Phoenix.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Oh, he was.

[C]

Before you got to Phoenix, he came,

[B]

he was in Winnipeg and came from Winnipeg. I think he was Stan Wilson's assistant.

[D]

Unbelievable guy. He was always, like, whenever we played them, he was always in the locker room hanging out with Stan and Tony and Donor and just an unbelievable guy. One of those guys, anytime you played against them, always came over, said hello, asked you if you needed anything. I mean, all those guys Are the best. We say it all the time. But 2,500 games, man. And those guys like are going on three hours of sleep. Like they're the reasons why we're all pampered the way that we are. Just unbelievable morale, guys. And shout out to him. I hope the boys got him a nice gift and. And took care of him for the night.

[B]

It's. He, he was with Yuka. Remember Yuka? We had an unreal massage guy. And unfortunately he passed away on the day of his wedding. Man. Like a tragic story. And they would, he would always tell stories about when they were in Winnipeg and how they would like, you know. You know, obviously these guys are landing sometimes in some cases at like 2 in the morning. And then they'd have to go to the ramp, sink in and unpack bags and hang all our gear up. Like that's the NHL how first class it is. And they would put like, they would put beers in, one beer in each of the guys bag. And as they were unpacking the bags they would be crushing the beers and they would be really cold at that point because they were underneath the plane. So just like that's his old, old school stories. And these trainers, man, and what they, what they do for us. So unreal. Congratulations. And, and what a handsome guy too. He has an age today. Hey, Benjamin Button. He's going backwards biz.

[D]

We used to do every once a year we'd go and help the trainers unpack after like a long flight or something like that. And it was literally my favorite day of the year because you just go there, have a couple beers with them, hang the, get on the bus, tell some story. Oh, dude, those guys are the best.

[B]

Tony Silva, remember? What did, what did Jovo do? Didn't Jovo bet him that he couldn't stay like an hour, hour in the sauna and if he did it, he would pay him 10 grand.

[D]

Yeah, it was like 30 minutes in the sauna. We had the hottest steam room in the league in Phoenix. This thing blew hot fire.

[B]

It would have killed Joe Rogan. That's how hot this thing was.

[D]

He stayed in there and came out and he came out and collapsed and fell right into the cold tub. And I think that's what brought him back to life. But he was one of those guys, he would do anything for a dollar. It was unbelievable.

[B]

And I think he gave him five or ten grand for that. So shout out to the trainers. The best.

[C]

All right, boys, we will be back. We'll see everyone or you will hear from us again on Friday. Thank you so much for listening.

[D]

Go USA Won't happen, Won't happen Won't

[C]

happen again

[A]

Won't happen, Won't happen, won't happen again I better have a It

[C]

worth breaking but it's taking time I

[A]

don't know it don't matter it's going to happen it's going to happen again.

[B]

Wanna come again? Wanna come, Wanna come again? Wanna come again SA.