Spittin' Chiclets Episode 637: Featuring David Carle & Kyle Dubas

Summary

Spittin' Chiclets Episode 637: Featuring David Carle & Kyle Dubas (April 14, 2026)

Theme and Episode Overview

This episode is a classic, packed Spittin’ Chiclets special featuring a double-interview header:

• David Carle (Denver Pioneers Head Coach, fresh off another NCAA National Championship)
• Kyle Dubas (President and GM of the Pittsburgh Penguins, fresh off a shock playoff berth)

The hosts—Ryan Whitney, Paul Bissonnette ("Biz Nasty"), Rear Admiral, and Mike Grinnell—cover:

• The latest news in college hockey: Denver’s championship run, state of NCAA, player development, and NIL money
• NHL playoff races and team eulogies (Red Wings, Islanders)
• In-depth interviews with Carle and Dubas rich in coaching/management insight, leadership, and team-building
• A brash, irreverent tone blending serious hockey analysis with classic Spittin’ Chiclets banter

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Main Segments & Discussion Breakdown

1. Frozen Four Recap and College Hockey Talk

(Timestamps: ~05:00 – 26:55; 27:01 – 74:48 with David Carle interview)

Denver’s Title Run – Key Talking Points:

• Merls’ Vegas Trip & Denver’s Gameplan: Merls recaps being in Vegas for the Frozen Four, hailing the energy and Denver crowd, and how the “dynasty continues.”
  • “Denver did it again. The dynasty continues. I believe you called this prior to the tournament.” – Keith Yandle (06:12)
• Denver’s Upset Style: Denver “manages, adjusts, and wins”—despite few first-round picks or old players; coaching and culture are the edge.
  • Noted: Goalie Johnny Hicks (originally committed to Tennessee State—an HBCU that didn’t end up fielding a team); he never started till midseason, ended undefeated.
  • “It is crazy. So we’ll get to Icecon later. But they just win. It’s been going on for 20 years.” – Billy Jaffe (07:24)
• Underdogs & Team Construction: Debate on building depth vs. chasing superstar recruits; recent NCAA champs rarely loaded with first-rounders/old transfer portal guys.

College Hockey Vibes:

• Frozen Four as Destination: Why Vegas rocked as a venue; Frozen Four is a gathering of the hardcore—see every possible college jersey.
• Chicklets College Connections: Chicklets Cup, college hockey cult following, and Merls’ “Icecon” recap—a wild betting/cult fandom get-together mixing hockey, betting, and party.

Off-Ice Stories:

• Grinelli Sighted (04:34): Grinelli allegedly “obliterated” on the flight back, drawing ribbing—central to the show’s friendly roast tone.

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2. INTERVIEW: David Carle

(Starts 27:01, runs through ~74:48)

Championship Game Insights:

• “We played how we needed to win”: Carle breaks down the national final; Denver had only two shots halfway but believed they'd "find a chink in the armor" and be opportunistic.
  • [27:44] “We blocked a lot of shots as well. We were committed to defending… I’m really proud of the guys.” – David Carle
• Fatigue, Injuries, & Depth: Recounts double-OT semi, players running on fumes, injuries, “not our best game but found a way.”
  • [29:50] Biz: “It almost cemented your legacy… out-coached them, bought in—a masterclass.”
• Transfer Portal Impact: Discussion on key transfers like Paul Kamp, who came for a chance to win a natty.
• Johnny Hicks Story: Out of nowhere, wins every start, breaks the NCAA save percentage record, complete unknown turned hero.
  • [35:16] Carle: “We had three goalies start games… Hicks just... won everywhere he’s went.”
• In-Game Adjustments/Bench Leadership: Carle’s signature: intense bench presence, in-game tactical changes, timeout usage, making every player feel part of the program.

Philosophy and College Hockey Landscape:

• Program Building vs. Prospects: Denver recruits “grinders” not superstar DI/future-pro types.
• CHL Rule Change & Recruiting: Detailed discussion on new eligibility rules for Canadian junior players, blending USHL, CHL, and NCAA-raised players, and Denver’s approach to integrating them.
• NIL & Money in the NCAA: Carle details how his program juggles NIL offerings, avoids bidding wars for elite players, focuses on fit and development. Stresses that, unlike football/basketball, money much less often sways top recruits.
  • [51:04] “You want to sell what you are—development, winning…we’re not going to get into a bidding war.”
• Regionals/Attendance Rant: Carle advocates (with data) for top 8 seeds hosting regionals (“this is about small schools, momentum, fairness, TV, and gate $!”).
  • [65:08] “It would be eight sold-out buildings. It’s about better for the fans and student athletes.”

Notable Quotes

• [29:50] “It almost cemented your legacy… you just found a way to out-coach them.” – Biz Nasty
• [41:37] “If you can’t do it in the regular season, you’re not going to be able to do it in the tournament… you have to go through adversity.” – David Carle
• [63:08] “Just play top 8 at bottom 8, a hard bracket... the more you guys talk about it, the better.” – Carle (on reforming NCAA regionals)

Memorable Moments:

• “Would you coach my ball hockey team?” – Whitney, joking about Carle’s loyalty to Denver (46:24)
• Johnny Hicks’ nickname: “Johnny Bricks” – locker room hero.

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3. NHL Playoff Preview, Team Eulogies, and Banter

(74:56 onwards)

Detroit Red Wings Eulogy

• From Division Leaders to Longest Drought: Detroit’s collapse from January division leads to missing playoffs again. Fans are turning on GM Steve Yzerman, the roster is dubbed “vanilla lattes,” lacking “toughness,” and questions swirl about the Hollow prospects pipeline.
  • [77:16] “Second team in NHL history with at least 69 points in 53 games and miss the playoffs.”
  • [79:24] “I don't see a lot of toughness there… All their players are pretty similar to one another.”
• Should Stevie get another year?: Heated, split debate—some call for patience and seeing if prospects pop next year; others want big-time change/additions (a la Robert Thomas trade).
• Detroit Centers Debate: Where does Larkin slot among NHL #1 centers? Discussion calls him bottom-half/top second-line on a cup team.

Islanders Post-Mortem

• Less agony than Detroit: Expectations matched reality. Schaefer as a franchise piece provides hope, but still need more “brutal to play against” skill/toughness.

Quick Hit Playoff Storylines

• Penguins Playoff Clinch: The admin roasts Whitney (“stuffed in a locker”), shock turnaround; debate over the impact of inserting fresh staff and young players.
• Minnesota-Dallas Opening Playoff Matchup: Panel splits on Minnesota’s “fraud squad” label, but generally see Dallas as favorites due to depth and goaltending.
• Ottawa “Kings of Ontario” Banter: Rivalry heat with Toronto, and post-clinch Twitter spats.

OV/Sid Legacy Segment

• Potential Last Head-to-Head: Emotional reflection on Sid and Ovi’s impact—"they saved the league", compared to Magic–Bird, did it with no controversy, 21 seasons, and now uncertainty if Ovi returns.
  • [104:00] “Those guys saved the NHL… the face of two countries and generations.”

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4. INTERVIEW: Kyle Dubas (Pittsburgh Penguins President/GM)

(119:44 – ~173:46)

Building a Surprising Contender

• Dan Muse Hire: Why Dubas tabbed an unheralded head coach: focused on player development, work ethic, ability to connect with both youth and vets. Muse built his staff, including Nick Bonino.
  • [121:11] “We went into it looking for someone with a great record developing young players… the feedback on him was incredibly positive.”
• Ekarlsson, Malkin, and Roster Health: Details Eric Karlsson’s changed game—his “defending and leadership” since rebound from injury, how Malkin’s personality and competitiveness are key.
• Ryan Shea Emergence: Breakout defenseman’s defensive value, versatility, “no-maintenance” character, soon to be an “earned payday.”
• Draft and Development: The “retool on the fly”—props to players and scouting, but also collaborative, spanning analytics (Wes Clark, Amanda Kessel, etc).
• Matvei Kindle Rookie Story: Surprise finding—penciled for the future, but earned a #1C spot as an 18-year-old.

College/Junior/Development Philosophy:

• Navigating New NCAA-CHL Rules: Explains how clubs now must help prospects choose best development environment; emphasizes individualized, non-dogmatic approach.

Analytics and GM Philosophy

• Evolution of Analytics: Acknowledges baseball is a decade ahead, but hockey analytics now merging puck/player tracking and video review to better project performance. Stresses blend of scouting, analytics, and coaching eye.
  • [160:44] “We want to measure: can a guy produce offense and make stops… it’s now about integrating coaching feedback and tracking.”
• Biggest Career Regret: Trading Mason Marchment for Dennis Malgin; “I always kick myself about that one.”

Leadership/Tone/Process:

• Sid and Vet Involvement: Dubas says he’s transparent about team decisions but doesn’t burden star vets with management responsibility; culture of openness, clarity, not player-GMing.
• Learning from Lou Lamoriello: Credits Lou as his “best mentor,” notes how details/culture from the Lou era in Toronto set his foundation.

Fun Banter/Quotes:

• [142:11] “He (Malkin) definitely walks by you and says, ‘give me a new contract.’”
• [150:10] “Give me one redo—Mason Marchment. Every time I see him play, I kick myself…”
• [146:29] On being a young GM: “When I was a GM at 25 in the Soo… nowhere to hide. Your home team is everything—hardest experience of my life.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• David Carle, on winning another title:
  “[We] played how we had to win… proud of the guys for digging in.” [29:44]
• Biz Nasty on Ovechkin & Crosby:
  “They saved the NHL… Two faces of a generation.” [104:00]
• Merls on Icecon:
  “It’s a cult. Mr. Ice is the messiah…” [17:18]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:00] – Frozen Four/Denver talk
• [27:01] – David Carle interview (detailed, runs for nearly 45min)
• [74:56] – NHL eulogies: Red Wings, Islanders
• [113:42] – Playoff preview: Dallas vs. Minnesota
• [119:44] – Kyle Dubas interview
• [155:15] – Dubas on analytics & GM career
• [183:18] – Masters/McIlroy reaction (lighter, closing segment)

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Episode in a Nutshell

This one’s loaded for both the hockey nerds and the cult-of-Chiclets crowd:

• College Hockey: Why Denver is a dynasty and every Michigan fan should demand a refund.
• Pro Game: Real talk on franchise miseries, playoff pressure, and what sets legit teams apart (hint: centers, culture, “popping prospects”).
• Industry Voices: You’ll get inside perspectives—how modern coaches recruit, what truly makes/keeps NHL coaches/GMs up at night, and exactly why Dubas regrets moving Mason Marchment.
• Quotes fly, jokes hit, and enough meat on the bone that you could skip the real games for a week and still keep up.

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Closing Thoughts

Highly recommended for any hockey fan who loves the mix of deep-dive Xs and Os, inside industry stories, and the irreverence that makes the show a hit.
If you want to understand how dynasties are built—and why your favorite NHL team might be stuck in the mud—this one’s essential listening.

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Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred platform.

Transcript

[Billy Jaffe]

Hey Spit and Chiclets listeners.

[Biz Nasty]

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[Billy Jaffe]

Podcasts and Spotify Prime.

[Biz Nasty]

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[Keith Yandle]

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[Kyle Dubas]

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[David Carl]

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[Keith Yandle]

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[Biz Nasty]

Me and Ryan have been officially welcomed

[Keith Yandle]

to the jungle that is Barstool Sports.

[Ryan Whitney]

I brought it toward the coyotes and I asked them if it was okay if I Jo the Chickens podcast full time.

[Keith Yandle]

Ryan Whitney's got a pink Whitney out there now. Get that on camera. Heath Yandel, the song man is a full time member. Marley just got an assist from Chris. Whoa.

[Biz Nasty]

We're buzzing right now.

[Keith Yandle]

Welcome everyone to episode 637 of the Spirit and Chickens podcast, presented by Pinkies Up. Pinkies Up. Biz did Peing Murray is here. I know the pink Whitney was all over icecon and Vegas for the Frozen Four. Merles has been on an absolute heater. He's home. We're back. Shout out. Pinkies Up I'm staring at my pinky. I'm staring at the other pinky. Shout out. Pink Whitney business. Holding a baseball.

[Ryan Whitney]

That's the one that Jay signed for me from the sandbagger. I use this to like roll out my hips and my back when I'm.

[Biz Nasty]

Oh, that's nice.

[Keith Yandle]

That's what you think of that. Let me stick treat you.

[Biz Nasty]

They get you a jersey, they sign you a ball, they bring you to game seven. You roll your sweaty ass out on it real nice.

[Ryan Whitney]

That's. That's what it's for. It's multi purpose.

[Keith Yandle]

Buddy signature on it and puts it directly up his asshole and then rubs out all over.

[Ryan Whitney]

Maybe if they could have hung on.

[Keith Yandle]

Disgusting stuff. Guys, packed episode for you. We got David Carl. They did it again. Denver, the chips are here. It's insane. Great interview with him. Kyle Dubas. Dubas stalk soaring through the roof this year in Pittsburgh. Biz got him Murr. I don't know if you saw this by dming him. Come on my podcast. That's very funny. And then signed me a baseball so I can roll out with it. Awesome interview. There we go.

[Ryan Whitney]

No, I said, come on the podcast or if. If you don't, I'm selling all my Duba stock. And then I wrote just kidding. Just, just kidding. Lol. No reply. But luckily G actually communicated with Jen Balano and yes, and got us. So thank you very much to him. So double double whammy for interview and we are headed towards the playoffs.

[Keith Yandle]

We are headed towards the playoffs. We're going to get all into that. But first, Mer, you were out there in Vegas for the semifinals Thursday and then you flew to Chicago for icecon on Saturday where I believe finally a win. The first win at icecon where it was Blues Blackhawks, I think five, three finals. So love to hear about that. But first, Denver. Also, I should mention that a buddy of mine was on the red eye home Saturday after the national championship game. Said Grinelli was on his flight completely obliterated. Would have been very funny to see that. I don't know who had to sit next to you, G, but I guess you were smothered at the airport and getting on the plane.

[Billy Jaffe]

I will say I was walking down the aisle on the plane in three different people and I wasn't obliterated. I just look like shit all the time. People just tell me that. And I was walking down the aisle, three different people told me I looked awful. They're like, you look gross, right?

[Ryan Whitney]

Well, you were going hard and you had to protect Merles from the blackjack dealers.

[Keith Yandle]

Exactly. So.

[Billy Jaffe]

Well, that's what's going on now, because I'm catching heat. Like, everybody just wants to tell you guys that we're, like, belligerent or something else just so they can hear you guys. Give it to us on this podcast. It's fake news. Lots of fake news.

[Keith Yandle]

I. If you have a bad beat, there's been times I'm. I'm not innocent. There's been times you've gotten a little frustrated with dealers.

[Biz Nasty]

We've all been to Vegas.

[Ryan Whitney]

Video review. He called in a video review this trip.

[Keith Yandle]

But you were correct on the video review.

[Billy Jaffe]

Yeah, and I was the first time ever where a pit boss did not go upstairs. They're like, no, we're not going upstairs. Like, well, all right. I'm just taking all my chips and going home then. So. Thank you for giving me an early night. Yeah, I was like a little kid. Give me my ball, and I'm going home.

[Ryan Whitney]

Can you give us the rundown on. On how you did at the tables?

[Billy Jaffe]

I only. I didn't do bad the first day. I didn't really do anything. Wednesday afternoon, after game notes, I crushed the craps tables up at the Durango with Migs, the Vegas Insider. But then I made a fatal mistake. I didn't go home. I went and met G for dinner at the. At the park, and we started playing the roulette thereafter. And I dumped it all back in. But all in all, I probably spent, I think, down $200. But you add that with all the drinks and the tips, I gave the dealer five dollar. Yo, $5 hard eight. You know, I was probably even.

[Keith Yandle]

Okay, that's a win. That's a win no matter what. Mer. Denver did it again. The dynasty continues. I believe you called this prior to the tournament, where not many people saw it coming. I don't know if that's for sure,

[Biz Nasty]

but once again, he called.

[Billy Jaffe]

Well, I invented college hockey. But I. I don't know if I called they would win. I just said, they probably will win. Like, I'm not. You can't bet against them. I did have a good feeling. Cause I brought my DU towel out with me from two years ago, Saw that when they won, and. And I just had a feeling. But I. I wanted one of those games to win. We. We had North Dakota coach. We had the Michigan coach. All on. On game notes this year. There are buddies. G went to Wisconsin. Chicklet. You like these guys? We love these guys. We love Denver, too. All my buddies went there, but. Yeah, they just win. It is crazy. So we'll get to icecon later. But we're lucky icecon got done quick because I got to watch the third period since we didn't have to watch the NHL game anymore, the Toilet bowl game. So it was really something else. And it's just what they do. They sit there, they manage, they then they adjust and then they win. It's been going on for 20 years.

[Keith Yandle]

And as I watched the game, I was kind of not able to sit down and watch it, but I'm catching snippets and there's. They have two shots on net just about halfway through the game. And I said, I go, they're going to somehow win because it was only one nothing. Now I think multiple people have said, if Wisconsin could have got that second one, then it might have been a different story, right? But they couldn't. And it was all because of Johnny Hicks. For people who don't know, this kid was committed after his WHL to go to Tennessee State. Are you wondering Tennessee State hockey? Yes, I am too. I had no clue. I think it's an HBCU school, which is a historically black school or all black school. I then asked, is he black? This is prior. Somebody said no. Whatever happened to Tennessee State? They didn't get a team. So Denver brings this kid in, he's not even starting. The starter gets injured. What happens? He doesn't lose one game. That is just Denver in a nutshell. You find some kid you weren't even going to get and Coach Karl goes into this and he stands on his head and somehow, once again, Denver wins the national championship. Another thing I'm shocked to hear Grinelli tells me the last team to win the NCAA title with more than one first round pick was North Dakota 10 years ago. I don't think Denver even has one first round pick. So it kind of leads into the conversation of college hockey. And like, do you go after all these super prospects or do you build like a deeper roster and. And get a bunch of really solid players as opposed to a couple superstars? I mean the, the proof is in the pudding. And seeing these winners, they don't have a bunch of first rounders, so.

[Biz Nasty]

And they didn't have the old guys too, right? Like how some of these college teams,

[Keith Yandle]

they weren't even that old either. I looked at the roster. 22, I think was their old. Had a couple of those guys. That's not crazy considering how old some of these guys can be. But it's a coaching master class. I don't know if Thursday mer at the, the semifinal game, did you think Michigan had them beat or was it still the same thing? Like I, they're going to somehow win this one too.

[Billy Jaffe]

I, I, I was sitting there. We knew it was getting tight. Like we knew they were doing it. It was, it was not a question. I had draw. So I was happy. But I, I swear and I mean I can only imagine how these players feel. They must feel the same way. Like it's never in doubt. We're sitting there comfortable as hell, like oh yeah, they're going to tie it up. Not a big deal. But I was crushed for the Michigan guys. But I want to tell you something. Before that game, before both games started, we were sitting at an establishment, couldn't get a seat. This guy offers up two spots or three spots for me, G and Fish. We sit down, he pulls out this little handwritten napkin and he had two, two stat lines on it. One was for the, the most like the best goalie ever in NCAA history. Their goals against their safe percentage. And Jimmy Howard and I know like way back, somebody crazy old and he goes, he can only get it officially if he plays 15 games. Talking about Hicks and he had all these numbers lined up. But I think giving up the three goals in the first game hurt him even though he only gave up one. But he was that close to, to having the best numbers all time with a minimum of 15 or 16 games. Whatever this old timer was telling us. And it turned out he was right. Like Hicks was going to steal the tournament. And what I've asked, I have a couple alumni that won championships there. And what is this Denver like? Please just tell me the recipe. I don't get it. They said they just, they take grinders and they just grind away. They want guys that are there two or three years. They're not looking towards, you know, the future. The NHL, they're not worried about that. They're there to win. And somehow Carl finds those guys before they're even like step foot on campus. They also, it was also like the adjustments he makes. Like a few of the Denver players we were talking like his in game adjustments are insane. And anytime you looked over at the bench, he is just in depthly coaching these guys. Like he called a timeout I believe in the second overtime against Michigan, I believe and it was, they called everyone over the bench. You look at both benches and everyone is surrounded by Denver, by, by Carl. You look at the Michigan bench, it's kind of spread out. Guys are having side conversations it's just I think the way he commands his locker room and his in game adjustments, I think that's what sets him apart. Yeah, 100. I think that was even a Michigan timeout and he used it like that to have a face off play lined up and they almost scored on that. But yeah, he's just the best of the best. And I don't think he's ever going to leave there. He's just going to be one of those guys that just stays there for.

[Ryan Whitney]

No, he already promised. We already interviewed my ball hockey team at Chickens Cup.

[Billy Jaffe]

Well, that's your only chance.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, exactly. We actually asked him about that. He says, you know, I've kind of answered this a lot, but I said, I said like after to the guys. Like, he's so young too. Like if, if all his kids are so young and he's comfortable, like he could go to the NHL in 12 years. Like there's no rush whatsoever. And, and biz kind of, you know, I'm not giving away the interviews. Like, well, you know, there could be. What else is there left to accomplish? He's like, just win more. I mean, it is true. Like, what's at this point now, if you're a prospect or a player, it's like, why wouldn't I want to go to there? I think one of the players after the game is like, yeah, you just know you'll be playing for a national title.

[Ryan Whitney]

Who's ever done that in any college sport ever? Like, has Nick, Coach K?

[Biz Nasty]

Maybe I don't, but I don't know

[Ryan Whitney]

if he won his first five.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah, no, I just meant like never leaving, building like a whole program to what it is. Like if he stays another 10 years, they're going to name the rink after him there.

[Keith Yandle]

Oh, they might already.

[Ryan Whitney]

What's the most one coach has ever won the national championship in hockey?

[Biz Nasty]

That guy. Oh, hockey. I don't know.

[Keith Yandle]

That's a great question, man. Gee, try to look that up.

[Billy Jaffe]

I'd imagine that's Red Baronson from Michigan, but I'll look that up.

[Keith Yandle]

Michigan is crazy. Like how good they are every year. They haven't won a title In I think 27 years at this point. So actually I was at their last title against B.C. and I think it was over. Was it overtime? It was in, it was in Boston.

[Billy Jaffe]

It was 98.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Whitney]

So three years ago it was in Minnesota and that was a great experience. I got to enjoy it last year it was in St. Louis. Don't know how it was. But Murr, what was it like being in Vegas. I know we've on.

[Biz Nasty]

They couldn't even get tickets.

[Ryan Whitney]

That was more of a none coming from the ncaa, but probably a good reason as to why, because it was. It looked like it was sold out. The energy in the building, especially in that last period, like they were on their feet when the goalie was pulled with a minute 50 left, like everybody in the building was standing up. So what was the atmosphere like?

[Billy Jaffe]

It was perfect. I was a little worried. I said, oh, there's no, like, local teams. Nobody can travel there. It was packed. There wasn't a single seat. There wasn't a single box spot open. You guys remember the Hyde Lounge upstairs where we were for the finals? Not a spot in there. It was. It was perfect. And what happens with Frozen four is it's not always just the fans of the four teams. There's people. We meet people there every year. They come every frozen four. This is my 31st frozen four. This is my 25th. I bring my kids every year. This is their 16th. It's main fans. It's RBI fans. You see jerseys from every team there. So when it was a destination like that, everybody made sure they're going this year. The guys trips, the girls trips, whatever it is, they were going to Vegas. So it was a complete home run. And it just makes you think, like, you got to just have it in Vegas or Nashville or Tampa every year. Because all the hockey fans are stuck up here in the north. We're freezing cold all winter. We can't wait to get down south or somewhere warm in April.

[Ryan Whitney]

We know.

[Keith Yandle]

So, Murray, then you went out to Chicago. IPCON for. People don't know. Elio, he's the overs guy. Don't really know how this year went as a whole for him. But icecon is where he gets together. All of his fans, his fan base are a bunch of lunatics, Mutants. Great people, but completely out of their mind. He has people from England, Czech Republic. They're all over the world. And he's never won. The last year was Nashville. I was at that. He didn't win the year before. That was where. Mer. Remind me, Nash.

[Billy Jaffe]

Nashville and Arizona.

[Keith Yandle]

Arizona Biz was at that one. He didn't win this year. I was not there. Portnoy was not there. That was the real magic move. And you get a big W. So take us through icecon and how it went. How. How happy were the fanatics.

[Billy Jaffe]

Yeah. A lot of people are trying to take credit. Yeah. Because you and you and Dave weren't there. But you know Like, Big Cat showed up, and I think he was there maybe for three minutes. And we scored three goals. So he's like, my. My. My work here is done. And he took off to go back and watch the Wisconsin game. So that was a big part of it. You see my shirt here? Chasing goals. So we did a new series this year to build momentum for icecon. You can't just come into one game. So we did a regular season. We went to five different cities. We went three and two on those. But it built the momentum for this icecon to get it done. And I got the numbers here from. From Mr. Ice himself. 285 people joined us at DraftKings Wrigley for the pregame to get our bets in, get a couple cocktails, get the vibes going. Over 100 people were at the bar on Friday night, the night before. I missed that there. You see us on the. At the DraftKings. That place is awesome. In Wrigley there. And these. These guys are all over me, right? Because it was a Bruins game on Bruins day game. Merles murals. EBR we doing the rule.

[Ryan Whitney]

We do.

[Billy Jaffe]

I'm like, guys, I just flew in from Vegas. I haven't even looked at this line. The game went off at 11:30. I mean, let's just focus on the. On the Blackhawks over. But the ice people are. They're crazy. Five different countries they come from. And the best way I could say it is I watched that documentary Waco on the way to Vegas on Netflix. Shout out them. Netflix. Like, how do people. Like, how did this guy get in charge of all these people? I can never understand it. But then I went to icecon, and that's what it is. He's like the Messiah, and. And these people are just, like, following him around. And it was. It was awesome. We were up in the crowd, and we couldn't get all seats together like you saw in Arizona, which was the best. We kind of were spread around. So of course, it's crazy when we're celebrating St. Louis goals, but I wanted to be with the ice people, so me and him sent out a tweet. Let's meet behind our section after the first period for a beer just to keep everybody together. So we do that, and then we all go up to our seats. Lo and behold, we get it done in the second period, which wasn't even very much fun because we won. But I, like, we're like, all right, let's meet again for the. For a celebration of the ice people behind section 320. 7. We go back there, and everybody's already waiting for Mr. Ice. And I have the video. I think Fish has the video. And he walks in, and these guys just start huddling with David Koresh.

[Keith Yandle]

David Koresh.

[Billy Jaffe]

And there is Ice. Ice.

[David Carl]

Ice.

[Billy Jaffe]

They're yelling. They're going nuts. Some guys are yelling, three plus three. Like, it's just insane. So a huge celebration broke out, and then the beers were flying. The pink Whitney was flying. We found a little bar that had a tv, and then we all went and watched the Washington or the. The national championship game.

[Biz Nasty]

Hey, just goes to show you how. How quickly people can forget about losing. Like, all those guys have probably lost so much money, and then you win one game. Like, winning cures everything.

[Billy Jaffe]

Yeah. Yeah. So it was awesome. Again, next year, we'll be doing the same thing. Chasing goals. We'll go to one rink every month. New rinks, just. Oh, spreading the message, you know, the gospel.

[Kyle Dubas]

Spreading the ice gospel.

[Ryan Whitney]

You guys are, like, going door to door once, you know, one a month now that you're in North America. I love that. So what was the backstory? Whit kind of alluded to it last part, or maybe the one before where Mr. Ice was just kind of wearing his three plus three equals seven, and he got, like, approached by, like, a grandma or a mother who, like, thought he was, like, basically like a. Making a pedophile joke on a sweater.

[Keith Yandle]

Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Billy Jaffe]

Because it says Ice. He thought they were supporting Ice. Oh, looking for immigrants. Like, we're not looking for illegal immigrants. We're just looking for goals.

[Keith Yandle]

We've called him a cult master and a pedophile, and all he was was a winner on Saturday. Geez. Poor Mr. Ice just taking a beating right now.

[Biz Nasty]

Oh, my God.

[Ryan Whitney]

Sorry about that. Sorry about that. Where did you get Ice Cons at Epson?

[Biz Nasty]

That is how stuff gets lost in the telephone game.

[Billy Jaffe]

But, yeah, we got to shout out DraftKings. They took care of it. Jack McCarthy on the barstool side takes care of it. All the barstool people came. You know, Chief and Megan and Eddie and Kadich got to meet him, so there. It was awesome. It was an awesome party.

[Keith Yandle]

Oh, well, it seemed great. I was bummed to miss it, but Mr. Ice gets it done.

[Ryan Whitney]

The last thing I was gonna have to talk to G about is. You were hanging out with. With Gucci.

[Billy Jaffe]

Yeah, a little bit before.

[Ryan Whitney]

He's a character. I saw him at the Dirty dog saloon the other night, Yance. I was there, and I had some buddies in town. Remember the Dirty Dog? Oh, yeah. Shea in Scottsdale. Oh, yeah, that's.

[Biz Nasty]

Who did you see there?

[Ryan Whitney]

Gucci? The. The. By three. Oh, he's still in Vegas.

[Billy Jaffe]

I don't think he left. I just saw a Snapchat of him 10 minutes ago playing the slots with Bull Bennett.

[Ryan Whitney]

Yeah, he came.

[Billy Jaffe]

He came to Tom's Watch Bar Friday night. It looked like he texted us the next morning. He spilled wine all over himself. He texted us the next morning, goes, did I spill wine over myself or did. Did I become Mark Sanchez last night? Because he was just covered in wine, so it was fucking hilarious. And then, yeah, then he came to the. To the game with us, and they did the that's Baseball segment, which was wild to see up there. So that was pretty cool.

[Ryan Whitney]

National championship. They're fucking around with the players doing that.

[Billy Jaffe]

Six minutes left. Six minutes left. National championship. They got. That's baseball up on the board. It's fucking crazy.

[Ryan Whitney]

That's awesome. That's awesome. What a character.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, that's great. And. And I think that Denver winning again, while surprising to some, in the end, it's not that surprising because that's just what they do. Quickly, before David Carl. I'm gonna just mention College Hockey News. TJ Hughes, the Hobie finalist at Michigan. He signed with Colorado. I was kind of surprised based on their roster. And then somebody told me they don't have a ton of prospects, so it kind of makes sense.

[Billy Jaffe]

Everyone was surprised, though. I think everyone boots on the ground like all the reporters, college reporters. Nobody really saw that one.

[Keith Yandle]

Well, still, if. If they are light in the prospect pool, gives him a better chance in the future. And then Michael Hage, who we talked about the incredible story of losing his father and Montreal Canadiens draft pick. He's going back to school. So Michigan, you know, they'll look to finally get a win now. I think a lot of people were surprised. What I've been told is, and this could be wrong, if he hadn't sprained his ankle and gotten injured, he might have left and he could be playing for the Canadiens right now. But the injury. Agreed, it adds some different. Different aspects. And now he goes back, he signs after next season. You still burn that year, and then you're playing on the Canadiens next year if everything goes according to plan. So I kind of get that. I also think it's probably more fun playing in at Michigan than it is in the ahl. If he were to be in the ahl. But the injury, there were some deficiencies

[Billy Jaffe]

in his game wit. There definitely were Some deficiencies, I think. Yeah, and, but, but before that, I think on the defensive side of the puck. So I think he gets to come back next year. He was the 2C this year, right. With. With TJ Hughes being the number one. See. So he'll be able to come back next year. Michigan is going to be absolutely loaded and pretty cool.

[Ryan Whitney]

That's all I keep hearing.

[Keith Yandle]

Exactly. Biz. Exactly.

[Ryan Whitney]

Every year. I don't give a.

[Billy Jaffe]

But it's pretty cool because his younger brother Alex is actually coming in next year. And the story of college hockey next year is going to be brothers because Max Plant is returning. Max. Max Plant won the Holby Baker. He is returning to Minnesota Duluth where him and his brother already led college hockey in points. Now they have their youngest brother coming in. So coach Sanderlin basically gave three of them, gave him an agreement. Max, you come back next year, I'll let you play on a line with your other brother. So three Plant brothers at Minnesota Duluth, they're going to be one of the best teams in college hockey next season. They'll be on the line. Then you have Ha's brother coming to Michigan next season. So that'll be pretty cool. So, hey, college hockey storyline, I think

[Ryan Whitney]

they're making him a. In a lab somewhere at this point. All the brothers, like the Kachuk brothers, the Hughes brothers, what other NHL brothers?

[Billy Jaffe]

We got Yandel brothers, the Yandel brothers,

[Ryan Whitney]

the og, The Snay boys, the Ocean. Well, Merl, thanks for coming on and, and, and talking about all this. We are going to throw it to David Carl. So a big portion of the opener of the pod is obviously dedicated to college hockey. Merles, though, I, I think after David Carl, I need to get your. Your breakdown prediction of Minnesota versus Dallas and why in the group chat you've been throwing around the word fraud attached to the Minnesota.

[Keith Yandle]

When he throws fraud around, it's actually been. I don't want to say correct, but he's closer to correct than incorrect when he gives a team a fraud name.

[Billy Jaffe]

I, I will stick around. I will stick around after this interview.

[Keith Yandle]

And, and honestly, people wait around because the eulogy of the Detroit Red Wings and you mentioned Max plan. I think they're maybe hoping he'd leave school, but right now we'll go to David Carr. We'll talk NHL right after because there's a lot of to talk about. This episode of Spitting Chicklets is brought to you by Body Armor Flash iv, an official official partner of the National Hockey League. Flash IV is packed with electrolytes delivering faster, longer lasting hydration without any artificial dyes, flavors or sweeteners. Whether you're training, traveling, or just feeling the heat, you need Body Armor Flash iv. It tastes great. It's good for you. There is no substitute. It's all about body armor flash IV. Work hard, hydrate hard with body armor flash IV. Grab yours today at your local 7 11. Guys, it's playoff time. It's here, and DraftKings has you covered. No sport flips faster than hockey. One power play, one goalie being pulled with two minutes left, and everything can change. DraftKings Sportsbook is an official sports betting partner of the NHL, and it's built for that kind of chaos with live betting from puck drop to the final buzzer. Murr knows about live betting. That's what the man makes a living on. And it's all because of DraftKings. And DraftKings has your back with early exit protection. If you place a pregame player prop bet and your player starts the game but leaves in the first period due to injury and doesn't return, you'll get your bet back in cash. No bonus bets, no opt in. Just real protection. And when injuries happen early, you're covered by DraftKings new sportsbook customers. Bet just $5, and if your bet wins, you get $300 in bonus bets instantly. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app and use code Chicklets so you're ready for the moment. That's code Chiclets. Turn five bucks into $300 in bonus bets. If your bet wins in partnership with DraftKings, the Crown is yours.

[Kyle Dubas]

Gambling problem.

[Ryan Whitney]

Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MEYER-RESET.

[Billy Jaffe]

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[Kyle Dubas]

Call 877-8-HOPE AND WHY or text HOPE AND WHY.

[Billy Jaffe]

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[Kyle Dubas]

Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org on behalf

[David Carl]

of Boothill Casino in Kansas.

[Kyle Dubas]

Wager tax pass through may apply in

[David Carl]

Illinois, 21 and over in most states.

[Kyle Dubas]

Void in Ontario. Restrictions apply. Bet must win to receive bonus bets, which expire in seven days.

[David Carl]

Minimum odds required.

[Kyle Dubas]

For additional terms and responsible gaming resources,

[David Carl]

see dkng co audio limited time offer. Copyright 2026 NHL.

[Kyle Dubas]

All rights reserved.

[Keith Yandle]

Here we are again, boys. Just another one down for David Carl and the Denver Pioneers, national champs. I don't even know what to say at this point.

[Ryan Whitney]

I think we put his face on our new graphic for the. For the pod. He's basically a member now.

[David Carl]

There we go. Thanks for having me on, fellas.

[Keith Yandle]

Hey, congratulations. Incredible. I'll say this one. This one might have been even more Shocking than any of the other ones because I looked up Saturday, Keith and I had a lot going on and 13 minutes to go in the second period. I think he had two shots on that. And I said to somebody next to me, I said, they're going to win this game, though. But take us through your reactions in the game and how you thought that thing was going, you know, almost halfway through.

[David Carl]

Yeah, it's. Thanks for having me on. It's a. It was a wild ride the year in general. I'm sure we'll get into it, but certainly the frozen Four in the final game. It. I really liked how we started the game. Like, I actually thought we had a couple real good looks. We didn't get shots off like Jasowski was wide open, beat a guy off the wall. We had some other. We were able to get into what we wanted to do. But I listen, I give AC and their staff a lot of credit. Like they. And we watched it all, how they forecheck and what they did in North Dakota, you know, and it was. Is a challenging team to play against. I think our feeling was if we could just, you know, kind of weather it, you know, it's hard to play that way for 60 Minutes. I mean, if we could find a chink in the armor at some point and be ready to capitalize, we'd have a chance. And you know, again, they. They shoot the puck a lot. There's a lot of volume from distance. We blocked a lot of shots as well. Like, we were committed to defending the way we needed to. We just. Their pace and their reloads was excellent. And it was hard for us to, you know, sustain pressure coming up the ice. Now you're changing, you know, instead of being able to get some ozone possession, we had a couple in the second where we able to get it, but just wasn't sustained enough. And I don't know what that. I think a lot of it is. Is hasty for sure and how they play. But, you know, the. The double overtime game, having the later game.

[Billy Jaffe]

We.

[David Carl]

Our guys didn't get to bed till, I mean, we got out of our. Our meal room at 12:30. We saw guys in the lobby talking to parents like. And I know you get the off day, but it's a two o' clock game turnaround. So you. I don't know if that played a factor ultimately. Really, really proud of the guys for, you know, kind of digging in and playing how we needed to. And obviously we were opportunistic and we kind of came alive in the Third. But, you know, Pole camp wasn't full health. Buckberger obviously dealing with his stuff. Like, there was a lot going on. So was it our best game? No, but we played how we needed to, to. To win a hockey game, and for that, I'm really proud of the guys.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah, for. For me, it was almost like. It almost cemented your legacy is, you know, not having this wagon of a team coming in and you just finding a way to basically out coached them, get you guys to buy in. Just a masterclass from you. But I knew months ago or maybe a month ago that you guys were going to win, because in the outline for today's show, it said, you know, having Carl on. So it's just one of those things,

[Ryan Whitney]

you know, you guys.

[Biz Nasty]

So it's just, you know, you guys. You guys got the. Get the mojo going right now. But I wanted to talk about the. The what's his name? Paul.

[Keith Yandle]

Com. Paul camp. Yeah. Yeah.

[Biz Nasty]

Like, getting him over from Bemidji State. Like, how much did that mean to you guys?

[David Carl]

Yeah, it was a lot. I mean, it came down to us in North Dakota when. When he went through that process, and he's a Northern Minnesota kid from Brainerd. You know, we had him at the world juniors, so I'll be honest, I got to know him a little bit there, and I'm like, if he transfers, there's no way he's coming to Denver. I just don't see him in, like, a big city and. But we had a few conversations when he went in, and, you know, he said it a lot in his media stuff, like, he just. He really wanted an opportunity to win a championship and, you know, to get so close last year in the double overtime game, and it's hard being in our. You know, again, this. Nobody's feeling. It's not hard, but. So no one feels sorry for us, but it's hard for new guys coming into our room because all the other guys are talking about their championships and their tattoos and, you know, and so, Poke, when you're an outs, you know, you're a new guy coming in, you don't have that experience. You know, he was really jealous of all the guys last year, and then to get that close against Western and, you know, and then to be able to do it this year, just really proud of him and happy for him. And again, he's been banged up the last couple of months with a foot thing and a hand thing, so to just kind of grind it out and do what he did and, you know, lead our team in scoring as a D. Like, we lost our whole first line. We lost. Booyah. And we lost our starting goalie. And so Polecamp, Buckberger, the depth of our guys up front, huge part of it. And. And to game plan against, you know, AD that, you know, has this one attribute. I just. As a coach, I think that's a lot easier than, like, prepping for a line or. Or what have you. So, like, he defended at a really high level and he obviously. I mean, he scored 18 goals, set an NCHC record for goals this year. So really proud of him. Like we told him in January, you know, there's. There's certain things that are going to give you an opportunity to play in the NHL, but there's other things that you have to get better at that are going to give you a chance to stay in the NHL. And he just really bought into that over the last couple of months of trying to do the things without the puck that'll hopefully get him a chance to stay with San Jose for the long term.

[Ryan Whitney]

I don't follow college hockey the most. Obviously we have G. Who does the Chicklets to you throughout the. The season. He kind of chimes in when something big's happening. Obviously, Whit played at bu, so he knows a lot about what's going on. And I want to ask about another transfer because there's a lot of fans who are listening right now who aren't really familiar with maybe the college rules. But you get this goalie, Johnny Hicks, over, and he came, I believe, as a transfer from. From Tennessee State.

[Keith Yandle]

Nobody. That's the crazy thing. That's where he was going. He was in the whl, but he didn't go there because they.

[Ryan Whitney]

Because it couldn't get funding.

[David Carl]

Yeah. So that's not you.

[Keith Yandle]

I'm laughing at the story.

[Ryan Whitney]

Okay. Okay. Well, I told you, I'm not the college guy. I barely graduated high school.

[David Carl]

David, that's why you're here. It's on Gibb. Yeah. So he was committed to Tennessee State, and he hasn't even like, he. I saw someone who, like, was retweeting his commitment posts, and it happened at the end of April last year. So he hasn't like, been a part of our program for a year yet. But, yeah, crazy story. And, you know, comes in the guy, you look up his record the last three years, he's like 80 and 12 or something. Between us and Brooks and Victoria, you know, the kid just. He's won everywhere he's went, and it's an amazing story. And he Came in due to an injury and obviously never looked back.

[Keith Yandle]

Literally never losing. Never lost the game.

[Ryan Whitney]

Well, he never lost the game this year. If you could give even more of the backstory, like which one of your, your, your scouts or, or did you discover them?

[Keith Yandle]

You guys have.

[David Carl]

No, we don't know. So you can have, you can have four people that recruit and scout. Do we have contacts and people in different leagues and connections with agents and coaches? Yeah, for sure. I'll be honest, I can't, I can't really pinpoint who brought Johnny to our Nate, like brought his name up to us, but I do recall we were around this time last year getting back from St. Louis and Freddie Hawk decided to go into the Portal and transfer to Brown for more opportunity. Davis is signing. We have Quinton Miller committed to come in and we need another goalie and we're trying to find. It's late in the game, there's not a lot available out there. And Tavis, I'm sure, heard his name from someone in Western Canada. Guys, Tavis knows everybody up there. And we all sat in Fergie's office and watched two or three games of him, and I think we might have called him that afternoon and offered him and it was done. You know, two hours later, it just all happened. It's an amazing. And most recruiting stories aren't like that, but it all happened within really a 24, 48 hour window.

[Ryan Whitney]

And what was it about him and like Obvi, at first when he came in, he was the backup. Like, what about him? Like, eventually, you know, got the starting role. Was it his work ethic? Like, what's his demeanor and personality like?

[David Carl]

Yeah, I mean, oddly enough, I think we're, I don't know how many teams in the country started three goalies this year. I'd be curious to know how many national championship teams started three goalies in a year. But we did. So, you know, Quentin started the year as he's draft pick of Montreal, got a great year in Chilliwack and in Lindenwood, we played Pax and Geisel. We gave Q a night off and we played Geisel in goal and gave him a chance. And then we went back to Q and rode him for a long time. And during that time, Johnny was practicing and, you know, Paxton got hurt a little bit. So it gave Johnny an opportunity to get a little bit more reps in practice and he showcased really well and you know, to where he then became the backup and Q got pulled a couple times in January, we put Johnny in he did well. He played a full period up at North Dakota on the Friday night and he kind of cemented himself as, as being the backup. And then when Q gets hurt is a. It's a wild story because we, we were winless in seven through December and January. Q stands on his head at North Dakota on Saturday night. Up there in January, we win three to two or four to two. Probably have no business winning. Q is unbelievable. And then we come home, we're playing St. Cloud. We're up two nothing in the game. We're playing well, it's parents weekend. We blow a two nothing lead. We lose four to two. And then that Saturday night, three minutes in, it's like a must win game. We're 13 and 11. We're 13th or 14th in the MPI. Our starting goalie three minutes into the game, he has a low, a lower body non contact injury. As he's coming out of the net, he kind of twists something up. And so Johnny's going in. We're playing St. Cloud and we just lost our last two games against him. We're 13 and 11, won one game. The guy who just stole us the North Dakota games out and Johnny's never started a game. He played a period. He played some, some mop up time and the kick comes in. He shuts out St. Cloud 6 nothing. I think it really sparked our guys like. Cause our guys didn't know he was going to be this right. We believed in him but we didn't know he'd go on a run like this. And we win the game. Six nothing. He plays against Duluth the next weekend. Max plans the only weekend he didn't have a point all year long. He shut Duluth out on Saturday night and he just, he went on this amazing run. He actually broke Jimmy Howard say percentage record. He qualified for the single season statistics because he finally played enough percentage of our games and he, he tied the goals against average record and the save percentage record for college hockey this year. And he started his first game in late January. It's unbelievable story.

[Ryan Whitney]

Holy shit.

[Keith Yandle]

It really is this, this year by you. And you mentioned 13 and 11. Like yeah, we were 13 11.

[David Carl]

We ended up 29 and 11. We didn't lose after that. Blowing that lead to St. Cloud.

[Keith Yandle]

Thank God Tennessee State couldn't get the funding biz.

[David Carl]

Unbelievable.

[Ryan Whitney]

They could be Natty champs. Right now they just have a goalie. What were, what were like. Did they give him a nickname or anything in the locker room? All of a sudden this like majestic creature comes from, from Nowhere, out of nowhere. And like, helps them win a natty, like what, what was his.

[David Carl]

Everyone started calling him Johnny Bricks instead of Johnny Hicks. So about that kind of, that kind of stuck for everyone. And he's a great kid, very, very soft spoken. You know, he's, he's got routines like you wouldn't believe. He's just, he's very, very dialed in and he's unfazed. I mean, you saw him get run over in the Michigan game and he just kind of, he just laid there, you know, motionless for 20, 30 seconds. Just collected himself and dusted himself off and came back in. And even that Duluth weekend, he actually left the game. We were up 4 1. He cramped with like 14 minutes to go in the game. Duluth scored like right away and then again to make it 4 3. We held on and, and honestly at that time you're like, maybe it's just not our year, you know, like, it's just, I'll be happy if we even get this thing to overtime. And we've, we ended up winning the game in regulation. He comes back the next night and shuts out Duluth. And like I said, we, you know, we haven't lost since the end of January. It's, it's really a remarkable run after going on a seven game winless streak and all the things we dealt with

[Biz Nasty]

in goal there, especially for college kids and like, I'm sure going on an 11 game losing streak, it's got to be hard to keep, keep them positive, keep them together and stuff. Especially nowadays, kids may be talking about transfer and all this, the nonsense that's going on. So for you, like, you must be so proud of that group and your staff for keeping these guys on track and, you know, ultimately finding a way to win for sure.

[David Carl]

I think, you know, that's what,

[Billy Jaffe]

you

[David Carl]

know, in college, like the years we've had that we've won, we've had some, we've had to go through some things. You know, in 22, we lost four in a row in the middle of October, November, in 24, we lost three out of four. We got embarrassed at home by, by Western Michigan. We got swept at home in February, you know, and it's like, that's what it's about. You have to find your way through that adversity. And if you can't do it in the regular season, you're not going to be able to do it in the tournament. And that's what I thought made Wisconsin so challenging. Like they had been through it as well. They, at the Same time we were on our seven game winless streak. They lost, I think six, seven or eight in a row through the month of January. And you know, they found their way through it. And you just know you're going against a really battle tested group on the other side. And, and we've all seen it. I mean, like Tampa's year where they set the record regular season, they go and lose in the first round, it's like they really hadn't seen a lot of adversity that year. And you're almost better off to have the opportunity to go through some of that stuff so you can sharpen yourself and, and learn a lot about yourself in your group. And if you can find your way through it, it's going to give you confidence when it comes in the most important times of year.

[Keith Yandle]

College is so, so different now. We actually haven't spoken since the CHL rules and kind of what's happened there, I mean, I look at, I look at your roster, right? You, you, you, you talk about Johnny Hicks, he come from the whl. Then Chisowski came from the whl, so did Clark Caswell. That process has to be tough for you. I'm sure you're getting more of a handle on it now, but like, how are you figuring out guys who do want to come while also recruiting USHL and guys who are. We're always eligible. Like, it's got to just be kind of crazy for you guys and all coaches right now to figure out how this all works.

[David Carl]

Yeah, it's, it is for sure. There's been, you know, there's been a lot of change in college athletics, but there's been like, college hockey's actually dealt with more change than any sport because of the CHL rule change as well. So we've had to deal with portal house settlement, roster limits or caps, all that type of stuff like everyone else. But then you throw in 60 teams worth of players, you know, into the development model, it really, you know, can throw up for a loop. I think we were pretty patient last year when the rule changed because I mean, to be honest, we're, I don't even know if I can talk about it, but we were named in. Some kid sued DNA and named us as one of the schools because of the rule and how it was, and it was an attempt to, to get the rule changed. So we were named with a number of schools and it kind of like we didn't even know if we'd be able to recruit from the CHL during litigation. And you know, it's still ongoing, so there's not a lot really I can say about it. But we were able to finally actually be able to do it. So we were watching it. We weren't having to make decisions and, you know, rush into it. And I think that actually helped us because a lot of our commitments didn't come until the later half of last year. And we brought in 10 freshmen. Again, a lot is made of the portal and obviously Polkamp and Salman and our players on our team, we got out of that. But we, we really do like to try and bring in freshmen when we can. And. But of the 10 freshmen, six of them have CHL on their resume. And we really wanted to get the right kids the first go around. I think with it something new. You don't want to bring in, you know, the wrong kids who don't want anything to do with the social experience or the academic experience. And so our, our 10 guys, they, they did a great job. You know, in the fall quarter, every one of our fresh, all of our players take four classes at a time. So 10 freshmen, four classes. That's 40 classes, biz. And not one. There was only one B out of the 40 classes out of our 10 freshmen. And there was, I think three or four B pluses and the rest raised like. So the, the perception is like CHL guys aren't. They don't care about school or, you know, and certainly that's, that's indicative anywhere. Like you could get that kid in the USHL or the Western League or the O. But for us, it was really important to get kids who wanted the whole experience of Denver who fit in culturally. And you know, those guys came in and, and they crushed it. Like again, there's six of them. James, Jameson, Upperson, Hicks, Miller, Jasowski and Caswell. So did a great job in the USHL, Guy. I mean, McMorrow, Varcone, Milburn was in the BCHL and missing one. Peyton Nelson was in the BCHL as well. So. And it, I mean, to answer your question, like going forward, it's all blended together now. I mean, we have. Betty Macbeth was playing in the AJ rule changes. He was already committed to us. Now he's in Calgary. You know, he's a potential first, second round pick. So there's a lot of kids that were committed to college in Western Canada that are now in the Western Hockey League. It's obviously opened up the door for kids who didn't have that path available to them, but I think it's all blending together now. Probably Quicker than we thought it would, but it's pretty seamless. Now that the nice part for us, we can stay in the USHL in really the Western League. And when Denver goes to a western League game, 95% of the kids in the game are in our area. Like geographically, we go to USHL game. Great league. We'll still recruit out of it, but there might only be eight or 10 players that are geographically in our area. So it's a really good use of our time, you know, to make sure that we know that league and, and spend time in it.

[Biz Nasty]

I just had a question that, you know, 32 NHL teams are wondering, like, how much is it going to take for you to come to the National Hockey League?

[David Carl]

I don't know. It's. We've had the conversation a lot, you know, with, you know, on this podcast and others, and nothing's really changed, you know, for me. So.

[Ryan Whitney]

Would you coach my ball hockey team?

[David Carl]

What's that?

[Ryan Whitney]

I said, would you coach my ball hockey team?

[David Carl]

We haven't won our own let's go

[Ryan Whitney]

ball hockey tournament yet. It actually doesn't conflict with your season either. We could really use you.

[David Carl]

Okay. I love it. Where is it?

[Ryan Whitney]

We don't know. That's actually, I think we're, we're narrowed it down to two or three cities. Could be going back to Boston, go to Denver, biz.

[Biz Nasty]

How out of shape they'd be with that, with that thin air.

[Ryan Whitney]

But it, but it must be, it must be hard for you, right? Because I'm sure you are getting offers and, or at least interview process from NHL teams, but obviously what you're building there is, is like, that's legacy type stuff. Like, you have three national championships in five years now. But the other side of the coin could be like, well, what else is there for me to accomplish at this level? So I'll leave it to you. Is. Is. Is that not even a thought right now because you're just still processing what happened after this year?

[David Carl]

Yeah, I mean, I think it was. I think I had to talk so much about it last year after the World Juniors and, and obviously like the two and four that we had, you know, it was just. I got a lot. It came up a lot the last little while, and again, I think a lot. Nothing's really changed from what I've said previously. And so I actually don't feel like there's as much thought or hype or conversation around it as maybe last year in that sense. So, you know, I guess, yeah, for me, it's not A. I haven't thought about it nearly as much as I did, say, a year ago, because nothing's really changed in my mind. And there was so much thought and conversation around it a year ago with everybody.

[Ryan Whitney]

And just as a follow up, I was just gonna say, like, the fact that you, like, you had so many freshmen, like, do you enjoy that, that process of bringing in these new kids and, like, kind of developing them? Like, is that what kind of, kind of keeps you going at that level?

[David Carl]

Yeah, I think we were, you know, we knew it would be a challenging year. You know, again, we talked, like, that's all we talked about at the start of year was like, well, how do you replace Divine, Thompson and King, our top line? And, you know, how do you replace Bouilliam? How do you replace Davis? These guys are like Denver legends. They went to three out of four Frozen Fours, they won two championships, and they were a goal away from going to another title game. And, you know, I think that was at least for me. Yeah, you, you, you want the experience for the next wave of guys. And so to bring in 10 freshmen that would, you know, inject some life and energy into the program, you know, we knew it'd be a challenging year, and it certainly was to kind of get it to where we needed to. But if you're. I think that's what excites you as a coach. And, you know, anything worth having in life is hard. It's not easy. And, you know, continuing to win, like, is really a hard thing to do. It's not an easy thing to do. And like, Rigor Lorenz said it after the game, like, it's, it's harder to win as an older guy than it is a younger guy. I think it's harder to win second or third time than it is the first time. That was the experience of the world juniors as well. Talking to the 05s in year two, they're like, this is when we were going through a little bit of a bump in the road in the tournament. They're like, this is way harder than a year ago. I'm like, yeah, because Brinley and Cutter and Rucker aren't here to, like, you guys gotta be the guys who lead the way and kind of show what it's about, you know, and so I, I don't know, I, I really enjoy that, like, process and that experience, you know, and trying to guide the guys along through that. And when he never gets old, I can say that. So to say, like, oh, what more do you have to Accomplish. I mean, we can win more. I mean, that's, that's always an option. So winning is fun. And to have that experience with these guys, you know, is really rewarding.

[Keith Yandle]

I want to discuss kind of the state of nil. I know at BU there's discussions, right? Like, compared to these Big Ten schools, this football money, the Big Ten network, it's just a different ball game now, ironically, like, a lot of these teams pay huge money for guys and maybe it doesn't work out, certainly not the way it does for you at Denver. But what is your guy's position with the NIL and money you have to spend? And is there an aspect of you that says, listen, like, I'm not going to spend $300,000 on a kid, like, when I know we can get a bunch of kids with like, less money. Do you know what I'm saying by that? Like, how do you guys approach spending money on players now? Which is still so weird for me to say when, when talking about college

[Ryan Whitney]

hockey and, and like, also, do these kids value more the development and where they're coming about, what they're going to learn from the next step over just getting a quick, easy bucket at the time of, of when they sign?

[David Carl]

Yeah, no. I mean, there's, there's a lot of layers to it and I'm happy to get into it. I think what I'd start with is college hockey is so, it's so diverse in the experience offerings that you can have. Um, like there's kids in Boston with like, like yourself who maybe dream of going to BU and we could offer that kid $300,000 and BU could offer him a hundred and he's still going to bu. You know, like there's a dream to play a bu or if that kid wants a big state school and he wants to go to a football game, you know, twice a year on a Saturday. It doesn't matter. The I, I, I really just don't think the money matters. When you're talking 50 grand versus 25 grand or 40 versus 60, like there's so many different types of schools within the college hockey portfolio that kids are still going to try and find an experience that they want. They're going to find, try and find a coach and a style of play that they want. Is there going to be a player that, yeah, the money is maybe in their eyes too much to turn down, you know, a high six figure, a seven figure number, you know, that negates all of that stuff. Sure. And is the media gonna talk about that guy a lot more than, you know, the, the finer margins probably. And I just don't think that's the real reality of it. And I look at like football and again, we're not in that sport per se. But can you really outline the difference between and experience at Alabama vs. LSU like it's going to. In my opinion it's probably a pretty similar social academic experience, coaching, you know, and so then the money becomes a real thing because everything else is pretty equal. And so the money becomes a differentiator. In college hockey, like again, you know, we're, we're talking to, we talked to some really good players and if it's between us saying a Big Ten school, it's like you really just probably have to decide do you want to be at a big 40,000 person state school where football and basketball are the top sports or do you want to be at Denver where it's a private school. You're in a great city. But hockey is the number one thing and you know, it's more about that I think than anything else. I'm not sure money is going to fully change a kid's mind on that. So the, that, that I think is a really important thing. The other factor, like everyone wants to talk about how the Big Ten is just going to run away with things and the reality is there's seven of them and they all play in the same conference and so they have to play each other and they have to lose. And not all seven of them can make the tournament every year. And we almost had, I mean the CCHA was very close to getting three or four teams into the NCAA tournament this year. You know that that's crazy when you look at. And they were well ahead of Minnesota and BU and bc. BC was on the in the mix till the end. But you know, there's only so many wins to go around to get teams in. And you know, BU had the most draft picks of anybody this year and it didn't result in winning. And so I think our model is such like with the six conferences that you're still going to have a Cornell, you're going to have Quinnipiac, you're going to have Duluth, Denver, like we're going to have our three or four teams. You know, the Big Ten is not just going to be able to go and run and have all seven teams in the tournament.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah.

[David Carl]

So that, that's a factor as well. They can spend as much as they want, but they still going to beat each other. So I think that's a really good check within the system to ensure that teams don't just run away with everything. You know, how do we use nil and all of it, you know, not, I'll tell you, like, not one of our players came here with a promise of you're going to get this nil deal, that nil deal, or what have you do. Some of them have some nil deals. They do. I'll be honest with you, I don't even know about some of them. Like, it's, it's a, it's an equipment deal with CCM for an extra five grand or with a Warrior for an extra five grand. It's not, it's nothing crazy. Revenue sharing is where we focus a lot of our attention. Like we don't have an outside collective at Denver in the, I guess to get into it, to help educate. Like you can pay players one of two ways. You can pay them outside via an nil collective. In order to do that, you have to have a group of people start an llc. It can't be a nonprofit, it can't be a nonprofit status. And so if the three of you wanted to give to the Denver Hockey Collective, you're not going to get a tax write off for it. You're going to have to give after tax dollars. You're going to have to give it to this collective and they're going to pay it out to the players. The coaches really aren't supposed to have any say or control over how that money's paid out. Ultimately, anything over $600 has to get submitted to a third party oversight with Deloitte. It either gets approved or struck down based on if it's equal value for equal work. So, you know, a hundred thousand dollars to do one social media post is probably going to get struck down. There's issues with internationals in doing that. You have to do the work in Canada. It has to get paid into a Canadian bank account. You know, so there's a lot of loophole or a lot of hoops to jump through with the nil collectives. There's obviously like True nil, which is, you know, Einstein Brothers comes up to three of our guys and says, hey, we want you to do some posts. We'll give you a free sandwich every week. I think that's really what we're looking for. Like, you know, stuff like that.

[Ryan Whitney]

Couple Chipotle bowls for the boys started over there too.

[David Carl]

So you can do that outside of these collectives. You can have like true nil from the, from the actual student to the business you know, that all has oversight too, but that to me is real, genuine. And then there's revenue sharing, which is the $20.5 million that each school can share. That opted into the house settlement challenge with that is, you know, the big ten schools, they're going to use the majority of that money on football and basketball and what's going to be left over for hockey. And so then they have to go use these outside collectives where these, all these hoops to jump through. And yeah, they're doing it and there's ways around it and there's ways to do it. But our vision at Denver has been to try and grow our internal revenue share dollars so that we don't have to jump through the hoops of the third party stuff people can give to DU hockey, we're a nonprofit, they can get the tax write off. It can go to revenue sharing if that's what we want to do with it. And Denver's never, Denver's never going to be a place that gets to $20 million on revenue sharing. Neither is BU, neither is Providence, neither is North Dakota. You know, so I think the health settlement actually has been a great equalizer potentially on the long term for the non football schools because we can do more internally. There's no third party submitting contracts. You know, it's just, it's revenue sharing. And so anyways, that's what we, we. I'll tell you what we did this year. We did, we had Alston and cost of attendance for our players. Those have been rules that have been in place for the last five to seven years. Allston is about $6,000 a year. Cost of attendance of Denver is about four grand a year. And you have to get, for your Alston, you got to get above a 3.0. So all of our guys were on full scholarships. They got $10,000 a part of their scholarship cost of attendance in Allston, we did $0 in revenue sharing this year. We did 0 in outside collective because we don't have a collective. We had some genuine nil that our players had with local business and their equipment deals.

[Keith Yandle]

Nothing crazy though.

[David Carl]

No, not at all like air.

[Ryan Whitney]

And everybody maintained over a 3.0 average to keep it.

[David Carl]

Yeah, to get there. Yeah, get their alen money, their $6,000. The, the way the rule is changed is now all that coa and that Alen, that's all going into, that's all going to be considered revenue sharing from now on. And so if you were to look at it, you'd say, okay, Denver spent 26 players, let's just say everybody, we have got 10 grand, $260,000. That would be what you would say we spent on our roster this year by the new rules. And our job is to try and grow that number. And so yeah, we're trying to double that number, triple that number, you know, within the year or two years. But again, we want kids coming to Denver. We're not going to get into bidding war for a McKenna type player. We're going to try and sell what we are development winning. We're going to have something on the revenue share side, but we're not going to be the highest offer. And I think we want to fill. We want to use it as a tool to enhance what we do, not necessarily change what we do. And I think there's certainly a lot of schools that are spending, I think a lot of it is overblown. We want to talk about the McKenna number more than we want to talk about, you know, the $10,000 number. And you know, the reality is it's not as much as people think, but our job is to try and grow it and stay up in the landscape because I do think it's good. Players should get a portion of what is happening. I mean like our program makes money. We sell out 6,500 every night. And I think it's a wonderful thing that if they can, you know, if we can double that number or triple that number in the next couple of years and they get to invest some of that and they get to leave with it, that's great. The other last thing I'll say is, you know, there's a lot of agents that they understand that college, that hockey, the better developed you are to come into your entry level contract. You know, they're like when you were in and Keith and Biz, there was bridge deals all the time coming off your entry level to your next deal. And the bridge deal has gone away for the high end player. And so if you can pick the right spot that's going to develop you and you're going to have a really good experience and then in the end maybe you're leaving some money on the table potentially. But if you can go from making a million bucks a year on your entry level to 8 by 8 on your second deal, like is it really worth again taking short sighted, Is it really worth taking 150 over 50 when you know the place that's offering 50 is like where you really want to be and where the better development is. So there's just like a lot that goes into it. I don't think decisions in hockey are getting made based on money. I really don't. We're not football, we're not basketball guys are getting a little bit extra cash. Yes. I think it's a great thing that players are being able to get it and that there's more options for players to pick and choose their spots and have some say in their development paths. But again, our job is to, is to try and continuously get better and better and add more and more resources to what we do.

[Ryan Whitney]

Maybe David Carl cameos like Robbie Berger's doing those.

[Keith Yandle]

He's pulling just like just firing people up. Giving coach, coach speech.

[Ryan Whitney]

Yeah.

[Keith Yandle]

Just like ball hockey teams as nice.

[Ryan Whitney]

Yeah.

[Keith Yandle]

Example.

[Ryan Whitney]

I'd pay 500 for one of those. Maybe like only fans coaching clinics from David Carl. Well, it's a bit more expensive paywall, just more money for the program. I mean, fuck, he's jacked right into the rev share.

[David Carl]

Right into the rev share bills.

[Keith Yandle]

My, my last question for you, Dave, is you talked about changing the regionals. We've tried making more noise about this because I think this year more than any other, it was like, what is going on? Watching some of the crowds and you brought up 1 through 8 hosting 9 through 16. Explain kind of your thought process on that and how you think it should work out in the future. And finally, if, is there any chance that this could switch or is it kind of like I, I, I think we're just, we're, we're, we're in one here. We got to deal with it.

[Ryan Whitney]

Yeah.

[David Carl]

I mean, I think it's great that you guys are talking about it more and I think it's becoming more and more obvious and you know, like it was great that Providence and Quinnipiac had to go to Sioux Falls this year and play each other, you know, because like Nate Lehman, he's, he's been in seven NCAA tournaments with Providence and it's the first time he had to get on an airplane. Every other time has been 250 miles from his campus. So he doesn't really, it's nothing. It's Nate like there's regionals close to him and so he's never really had the experience. I guess my, my thing like I see a lot of people, you know, talking about, well, the building size is too small at some of these places. Can't host four teams. And I would say that's, that's why we should not do home site regionals. We should not have like U.S. western Cornell and, and Mankato should not have been at Lawson because there would have been nobody there for us and, and Cornell, it would have been dead. It would have been worse truthfully than what we currently do. So the thought is we have a three week tournament already, the bye week. You know, we've been through it a lot. It kind of slows down the momentum. People stop talking about college hockey big time. And it just provides this lull that, you know, you want to be forefront of people's minds and keep talking about stuff. And so anyways, the thought is the top eight would host the bottom eight. You still wouldn't have your interconference matchup. So like Cornell and Quinnipiac still wouldn't have been allowed to play this year. Right. So we would add Cornell in our building and Mankato would have went to Western and QPAC would have went to Providence and all the above and you would add eight sold out buildings. And yeah, we got to talk about, you know, the days and times and, you know, what's the best for that. I always kind of felt like if you played two games a day, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, it'd be okay, you know, you hear, well, who's the, who's going to produce all these games? Who's going to. And there's plenty of talent, there's plenty of people that want to call the games, do the games.

[Ryan Whitney]

Fuck, we'd do it. I would, I would be honored.

[David Carl]

There's, there's so many people that would do it. And, and anyways, you, you carry it, you just carry it into the next weekend and maybe your Thursday games play into the next Friday, you know, like Austin, Cornell and, and Western and Mankato played on Thursday, so we all have equal rest and then we go to Western the following Friday and you just, you just, you, you play the single games and it's a hard bracket. You don't recede. And I just think it's, it'd be so much better for the student athletes, be so much better for the fans. You would actually cap your costs on travel. You, you'd have a maximum of eight teams flying. You might have less because of bus trips. You know, there's years where 12 teams have to fly in the NCAA tournament. Like it's, you, you just, you remove a lot of the variables that, that, that we all worry about with attendance. I see these, you know, bracket predictions all through the second half and everyone talks about attendance. Well, we got to move this team for like we gotta, we have a solution. Just play top eight at the bottom eight, play A hard bracket remaining higher, four seeds in the bracket play, and then we go to the frozen four. And if you gotta slide the frozen four two days to give an extra day or two to rest, like, that's fine. But what shocked me was, and we didn't do the data on this year, but the prior 10 years, it was 30 schools would have hosted in the first round, 21 different schools would have hosted in the second round. You know, there's a lot of volatility. Everyone thinks, oh, just the big schools are going to host. And it's like, okay, you think if Mankato, on their runs, if they had hosted a few times, they were one seat for, like, two or three years with Hasty, you think they would have went to more frozen fours, maybe. And everything is about the big schools. And I would even call us a small school because we have 6,000 undergrad. Like, we're not a big school. We're not spending what some of these other places are spending, you know? You think that would have helped?

[Keith Yandle]

Maybe.

[David Carl]

Maybe they. Maybe Mankato could have paid Hasty what Wisconsin offered him. Maybe they could have kept him. Maybe they could have kept it going. You look at Maine right now. I mean, they've had some kids going into the Portal today that are their best players. They were a one seed a year or two ago. They had to go to Allentown and play Penn State. Like, is that fair? So I think about it more for the small schools, to be frank, like, what momentum could Maine have generated when they were one seed and a two seed the last two years, you know, and then now they miss the tournament. And it's like, you remember they made the tournament, and you certainly don't remember they were a one or a two seed. And so to me, it's about trying to give teams something to actually hang their hat on and build momentum, because we did it this year for the first time in our league playoff, and it was. It was unbelievable. Four of the six conferences do it. It's good enough to decide the automatic qualifier for the NCAA tournament. I just. I think the more you guys talk about it, the better it is. I do think it will come eventually. The. The voting structure and the committee structure is changing a little bit within the ncaa, so I do think there's a window to do it in the next couple years.

[Ryan Whitney]

I'm trying to just understand, like, the business side of it, too, because it seems like most of the revenue would be generated through ticket sales. So that would be even more so a reason to follow through, kind of what you're talking about. But is there some sort of like, like, sponsorship from doing these regionals? Are these cities, like, like, bidding on it, where they kind of get this upfront payment to ncaa? Like, what is the financial or business reason why they are staying stubborn about what's going on?

[David Carl]

Yeah, so usually to bid, there's a guarantee that you pay the naa. And I think a few years back it was like, it might have been 150 grand to host the regional round. We actually got that number lowered. So it was more because we weren't having bids in the West. And so we're like, well, if we don't have bids, maybe we need to look at the economics of the bid structure. So they, they lowered the number, and now we are getting more bids out West. Sioux Falls is doing it. Fargo's doing it. We're doing it in Loveland. And, you know, I think that's. That's obviously a really good thing, but there'd probably be some sort of a hosting fee for the, you know, no different. Like our conference tournament that the league gets all the ticket revenue. We host the championship game, the league gets all the ticket revenue. We get parking and concessions. But is there a flat fee to host? Is it based on the size of your building? I mean, these are all very manageable things to be able to sort out. And it's the same at the frozen four. To bid on the frozen four, it's obviously a higher number. Right. That you have to give to the NCAA for a guarantee. And then there's some sort of a profit share once you hit that guaranteed number on the ticket sales. Now, is it 50, 50? Is it 60, 40, 70, 30? I don't know that, but that's some of the business component to it.

[Ryan Whitney]

But once again, kind of like you're talking about the players taking 100 over 50 and getting maybe worse development. It seems a little bit short sighted because I just did the 6,500 number, and that would be your building. I don't know what they're selling tickets for, but it's $325,000. If you're selling them at 50 bucks a piece. Seems like a lot of money compared

[David Carl]

to a. Yeah, I think we would make much more money doing it. This.

[Ryan Whitney]

That's what's crazy to me about it. It's like you don't even have a financial reason as to why you're doing it.

[Keith Yandle]

And then watching it on tv, you're like, you're like. As a young kid, it's like, oh, my God. I want to go do that like that. I want to go to Maine.

[David Carl]

If, if Maine had two or three games on ESPN and Subway tournament games, like you don't think that helps? Ben Barr.

[Ryan Whitney]

And they're playing in Noah's Ark for Christ's sake. People be like, what is that majestic place of Narnia in there? It looks like Noah's. Does it not look like Noah's Ark in there?

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah, it does.

[Ryan Whitney]

Like the new Odyssey movie. My final question is, is, you know, you mentioned all the freshmen and of course you guys have a big responsibility to develop them quick and go on to win a national championship. But a lot of it probably helps from your veterans and the guys that did stick around. Is there maybe any of the unsung heroes that have been there for four years and maybe that was their last chance at it, that like you deserve maybe a shout out or some credit for not only helping develop these guys quickly to win, but just for the time that they put in with the team. And maybe it's not the guy who's going to get the big goal or just a couple of the fucking, you know, the, the, the glue guys, so to speak.

[David Carl]

Yeah, we, I mean we only had three seniors on our team this year, but Kent Anderson was our captain. You know, he's a, to me just emulates the Denver story in a lot of ways. Was on our 24 team as a sophomore, you know, and he didn't, he played, but he didn't play. I don't know if he played a shift in the overTimes against, against UMass in the opening round that year. You know, him and Lucas Ulvistad were, were our five, six and you know, he just, he's a guy who just worked on his game. Works on his game. Not super old. He's, he's an 03, so he's a, he's our oldest player. He's 23 years old. He's not this 26 year old senior. But you know, he had some, we had some tough conversations after his sophomore year like, hey, what do you see my role be in, what's my growth path here? I love being here. I just want to make sure you guys value me and you know, we had a great conversation and, and his junior year he was deep partners with Z Boyam, did a great job, you know, complimenting Steve's game and getting himself on the penalty kill and, and then this year, you know, I thought he was, he was excellent for us as our captain. You talk about bringing 10 freshmen along and you know, there's, we talked there could be a shtick right with the CHL guys and oh, they're different, they're new, you know, are they going to be different guys in the room? And you know, that's why it's so important to bring in the right ones early. And I thought, you know, we did that. But also Ken did a great job, you know, making them feel welcome and a part of it leading them the right way. And there's a big education piece because a lot of these kids don't. They don't think of college hockey. They're not thinking about what Denver is. And so they need to be educated on what we're kind of about. And Ken did a great job with that Rieger as well. Who's, who's going to sign here most likely with Minnesota who has his right. Sam o' Salman in as well is wearing a letter for us. But Ken, it's just funny like so the guy who doesn't play a shift against UMass in the overtime, he scores the game winning goal against Michigan in double overtime. You know, just a really unsung hero like. But it really emulates when you tell the college story, you know, those are the guys you get really excited about sharing his story and you know, hopefully he gets an opportunity to sign a pro contract and because he's a great person and he really has an identity to. To what he is as a player.

[Keith Yandle]

That's cool because he. That's the old college story. You know, freshman year maybe you don't play a ton. It's sophomore year, a little bit more and by senior year you're a big part and that's changed and that kid's an example of kind of the old way it used to be. But thank you so much, Dave. It's. Yeah, it's incredible what you guys are doing. What you yourself has done along with the world Junior wins and we appreciate you coming on. Congrats and enjoy it and we'll see

[Ryan Whitney]

you at Chicklets Cup.

[David Carl]

Thanks guys. Appreciate your time. Thanks for all you do for college hockey and in the sport. See you guys see it.

[Keith Yandle]

Thank you very much to David Carl. Incredible what he's doing. True dynasty. And we'll see how many more he can get but onto the NHL.

[Ryan Whitney]

I think that if he's able to take the big deal selects to the promised land, an NHL team should offer him 20 million a year.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah. The problem is if he ever did coach your team and didn't win, that could be like the end of them. Like what Happened to the the hottest coaching prospect the NHL has ever seen that won't even go to the NHL.

[Billy Jaffe]

Oh.

[Keith Yandle]

He coached the big deal selects one year and Terry Ryan roofied his drink

[Biz Nasty]

that's like never came back.

[Keith Yandle]

A legitimate worry. And all of a sudden Denver's 2 and 36 the following year they all biz got him the Bissonnet curse.

[Ryan Whitney]

He's living in. He's living in fucking senior's basement. Coach.

[Biz Nasty]

Doesn't he.

[Keith Yandle]

Guys. The Detroit Red Wings.

[David Carl]

Oh.

[Keith Yandle]

Oh boys. At one point this year. Not even really. Really early on January. Atlantic leading the Atlantic Division. And what happens now with the Buffalo Sabres getting in. They are the longest playoff drought in the NHL. 10 years. Booed off the ice. Lose a heartbreaker to the New Jersey Devils where they're up in the third period. The months of March and April to them have been complete disasters. And man.

[Biz Nasty]

Why is B so happy?

[Keith Yandle]

I think he's just disgusted.

[David Carl]

No.

[Ryan Whitney]

There's a. There's a lot of mixed emotions. I feel terrible for them. But I also want an apology from a lot of their fans in which I criticize their lineup for. For a few years. And they attacked me online. Much like the Philadelphia Flyers fans who are learning that hard lesson. And they're going to learn it even harder in the next 24 hours when Rick Talkett leads the Philadelphia Flyers with apparently from their fan base. No first line center. No second line center. No number one D. And not really a starting goaltender until yet again Rick Talkett has another goaltender like Darcy Kemper. She loves and now Vladar as essentially number one goaltenders in the league. So bravo to Rick Talkett. But to the Detroit Red Wings.

[Biz Nasty]

You're saying bravo to you.

[Keith Yandle]

That was bravo to him. That was bravo him. But I liked it. It made me laugh. It was a bravo to you.

[Ryan Whitney]

It could be a bravo to both of us. The bravo.

[Keith Yandle]

Fair enough.

[Ryan Whitney]

Okay.

[Keith Yandle]

The biz biz. Get this one. Just before the Wings. The Detroit Red Wings become the second team in NHL history. The league's been around a while. Who have at least 69 points in their first 53 games and missed the playoffs.

[Ryan Whitney]

Oh yeah. I was sticking with the Wings. I was sticking with the Wings. I sent you guys this one. The Ottawa senators made up 20 points on the Detroit Red Wings since January 20th 12th. 20 points.

[Keith Yandle]

I got a question for you. Is there. Is their roster like. Okay. So you look at Detroit and they got plenty of prospects. But looking at their roster it's. It's like it's all the same. It's Very. All their players are pretty similar to one another. And then you guys want a vanilla latte with your Uggs boots and a vanilla yacht. But then look at, look at the, look at the grind line we had Darren McCarty on a couple weeks ago. Look at that. Where is like the toughness on that team? That's the one thing I think Mo

[Biz Nasty]

Cider has to bring it every night. And he's also playing 37 minutes a night. Like he can't. He can't be doing that.

[Ryan Whitney]

I think he had to fight Castell this year.

[Biz Nasty]

Right. Wait, you talk. They talk about all these prospects that they have. Whatever. Say they have six prospects that are supposed to be elite. How many of those guys are really going to make it and be impact players? Like, you got to trade some of these guys now while their stock's high and get some guys to bring in. Like they should have done that at the trade deadline this year to. To bring some guys in when they had a chance to get a. Into the playoffs. You got to trade away some guys. Yeah, you might not like it. Yeah, they might turn out to be good. But realistically, not every single one of those prospects is going to turn into a player.

[Keith Yandle]

Well, they did make a big trade and this one hurts even harder. It hurts even more now. The Justin Falk trade. They gave up their first rounder this year. It's unprotected. And now all of a sudden, come May in the lottery, like that could end up if. If they do well when the law. When the, when the balls drop. I mean, all of a sudden you're losing a really high pick and you didn't get into the playoffs. I don't know how Wings fans thought Falk played. It played down the line. I know Peron didn't play very well there.

[Biz Nasty]

No one did.

[Keith Yandle]

That was another move they did. And I just biz. You said it. Vanilla latte. Right. Like, I just don't see. I don't see like a ton of toughness there.

[Billy Jaffe]

Like Peron they brought in is the same as Raymond and the Brinket. Like what was the point of bringing another little skilled righty? Made no sense.

[Ryan Whitney]

Well, he's a little. So he's. Yeah. Mind you, I think that those guys at their point in their career are a lot more dynamic. I thought Peron was going to help the power play and add kind of that. That sandpaper around the net and down low. Like he could be a bit of a piece of. To play against. He developed that skill later in his career when he was with St. Louis where like he would just, he would be a pain in the ass. My biggest question is, is so what are they going to do through the noise? There's going to be a lot of noise now. Like people don't want Stevie at the helm. I think those people are a little bit ridiculous. Although I would say give him one more year and if he's unable to figure out right now they're number one in the AHL. Grand Rapids has I think over 100 points. I believe they hold the first overall position, if not maybe second behind Providence. You guys can look that up right now. So yeah, as you talk about these prospects, I think rookie move given up that, that first rounder for Falk. But they do still have a lot of picks and also they have goaltending coming along the way with yes, Augustine and with like always Cosa. So you, you definitely got to shake things up this summer. Right? There's a lot of GMs last year that went out and did it and got guys who ended up helping out. I mean we have one coming on in, in about 30, 40 minutes here in Kyle Dubas. He's got to have an unbelievable draft, an unbelievable deadline in trying to shake things up. And a lot of these prospects who are down in the AHL like Yan's talked about, they do, a few of them have to pop and have to come up and eventually make impacts. And I think that if you are able to see that growth next year and for them to squeak in a playoffs, that's kind of the start of. All right, let's go on a run here where you're guaranteed postseason hockey where I personally, as frustrating as it is and as much of the same thing as we've seen over the last three, four years in March and fizzling out at the end of the year, you got to stick to the game plan and not hit the panic button. That's it. That's it. You got. I think you got to give it one more year, but it's. We're going Braveheart execution style Stevie Bong rips at the end of next year if they don't make playoffs. And it pains me to say that because we're talking about an all time great here.

[Keith Yandle]

Oh yeah, man. It would be hard for the fan base to see like nothing change.

[Ryan Whitney]

I personally would have went off would I would have went after Robert Thomas. Like I think that's ridiculous. And the other argument within the fan base is maybe after the Olympics, as good as Larkin was in the first half and as good as he was at Olympics. You know, his play regressed a little bit, but we all, We've. We've all seen that from some guys who went to the Olympics playing all this crazy hockey. Also, Larkin had to come from an injury as well, right? So he might not be playing at 100. So now all of a sudden you got people questioning Stevie why they want him gone. The fan base is divided on that. They're questioning their captain's leadership and, and what he's able to do and with whether he's a number one center or not. Like, it's, it's ugly as, as the, the discourse from the fan base and the media side of it in, in hockey town, so.

[Biz Nasty]

And they probably think they got McDavid coming too.

[Ryan Whitney]

Well, that's because of Ryan Whitney. That's because a lot. Little bit of delusion for the, the, the winged wheel.

[Keith Yandle]

Well, here's what somebody else pointed out. Like this year, Toronto and Florida didn't even make it, dude.

[Ryan Whitney]

So it's not getting easier in Atlantic.

[Keith Yandle]

Like, Florida is going to be back. Toronto probably won't be, I don't think. You never know based on, like, what Boston did this year. But, like, if you told them prior to the year that Florida and Toronto wouldn't be in, then you're like, oh, we're definitely making. And they still didn't. So I guess if you, like, they're gonna, I mean, they could finish the season with 95 points if they win their last two. I mean, who, who cares if you don't get in, right? But it's like their season wasn't a disaster. They're better than last year. It's just what to me is just the, the question mark is. And I'm not questioning leadership at all, but to be in the mix every March, three years in a row, like, what, what is happening there now? Maybe the games are getting that much harder and that much more physical. And your team is not. They're not a upfront, they're not big and they're not physical and they're not mean. So it's like, I mean, look at like, like, I know I'm maybe reaching a little bit, but, like, how much would a guy like Castelec. I'm. I'm just. The Bruins are, The Bruins are, are local to me. Like a guy like that just get a guy in there. Am I saying Olivier, you know, guy

[Ryan Whitney]

who can play but also instills fear in his opponents. Like some size, some meat on that, on that fourth line. And it kind of turned with especially Detroit was the first team to really turn in the Babcock era where they didn't have a tough guy. They didn't have like a lot, a lot of physicality and toughness on their fourth lines. Would you agree?

[Biz Nasty]

Oh, they had. No, they had Molpy Draper McCarty. They were.

[Ryan Whitney]

After that there was a.

[Biz Nasty]

Like when they won Gwendenning.

[Ryan Whitney]

They had the choice.

[Biz Nasty]

He went to Michigan State.

[Ryan Whitney]

The applicators advocator.

[Biz Nasty]

Like they, they were still pain in the air. They were hard to play against. They hit you every shift. They, they were, you know, they knew,

[Keith Yandle]

you knew they were out on the ice.

[Biz Nasty]

They weren't going to score every ship, but they were pains in the ass to play against.

[Ryan Whitney]

Yeah, but yeah, okay, maybe more so. It's gotten even softer. But that, that once the, the, The Malpy Draper McCarty era ended in Detroit, it really felt like when Babcock came in there wasn't a lot of that like that, that toughness to instill. It was more about pace using all four lines. Guys he was comfortable with. Once again, I think like Drew Miller was a fourth liner there when we were playing in those, in those series against them.

[Keith Yandle]

But yeah, but even like comfort and, and cop. I'm looking at their lineup right now like kind of similar.

[Biz Nasty]

Same player.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, like a lot of them are like the same player.

[Ryan Whitney]

In, in another thing, two boys is like as much as I love him and he's a legend, first ballot hall of Famer, greatest American born player of all time. But is like, is, is, is Patrick Kane still on your roster next year in your top six?

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah, if he wants to be.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Whitney]

But I'm saying is like, all right, well it's.

[Keith Yandle]

I know, I know what you're. I know what you're saying.

[Ryan Whitney]

I don't, I don't know what serious cup contender has Patrick Kane in their, in their top six.

[Keith Yandle]

Well, they're just trying to make the playoffs.

[Ryan Whitney]

I, I get that but they need,

[Billy Jaffe]

look at the lineup.

[Keith Yandle]

They need Cat. They need Casper to like pop off next year.

[Billy Jaffe]

Andrew Cops not a second line center. No, you can't have him say he's a third line. Like you said, the grind line. Get that back. Get him there. Put Comfort on the, on the wing and get another big body. Then you get your grind line. It should go to Denver and just get five guys from Denver that just come in and grind and then let all your little righty score.

[Biz Nasty]

Don't you think they should trade some of these prospects that we keep hearing about to, to get guys like, they're saying guys like Olivier, guys like. Because say you're Columbus, you want a skilled young guy you can maybe get rid of a guy like Olivier, but you're bringing toughness into your team that's going to make teams not want to play you every night.

[Ryan Whitney]

We're at a fork in the road here. Will patience prevail and we're. Will these guys that they've been talking about and grooming and in a slow process coming up, is it going to work? Is it finally. Are we going to. We're going to finally see it next year and. Or is he going to make a bold move? And like I said, I don't know what the price tag for what Robert Thomas was, but I'll tell you right now, now I would have offered two first rounders. I would have offered Casper and I probably would have offered Finney.

[Kyle Dubas]

Yeah.

[Ryan Whitney]

As well. To get. Now all of a sudden you alleviate pressure off of Dylan Larkin. Because let's, let's be open and honest. I would say if you look at the 32 teams, you would say, is Dylan Larkin a first line center? You'd say he is, but he's in the bottom half of first line centers that are offered compared to all those other teams. That's not being disrespectful. That's just being flat out honest. I think you would what, slot him in Mer. Probably in the like the 18 to 22 range. As far as first line center in the league.

[David Carl]

Yeah, I would agree with that.

[Ryan Whitney]

Look, look at.

[Biz Nasty]

I don't know, man, if he's surrounded by a good team. Like he's a fucking awesome player and he plays hard.

[Ryan Whitney]

Like, I, I'm not saying, I'm not saying that. Let's go through the list.

[Billy Jaffe]

David, McKinnon, Barkov, Eichel.

[Ryan Whitney]

Like, I would, I would, I would probably put. If you, if, if you had to make a bet right now, do you think that Leo Carlson surpasses him, who's in Anaheim or.

[Keith Yandle]

I think Larkin's a second line center on a Stanley cup team.

[Ryan Whitney]

That. And, and that's what I, that's what I said two, three years ago and the fans wanted to hang me on the cross.

[Keith Yandle]

He also, I mean, what has he

[Biz Nasty]

been surrounded with though? I mean, Raymond's nice. Like.

[Keith Yandle]

Well, yeah, I'll, I'll read this right now. So this. And, and this could be good for Wings fans. So go to the 2020 entry draft. First round pick, fourth overall. Raymond hit 2021. Edmondson sixth overall, hit 2022 Casper eighth overall. I think Casper can be a good player, right. I I but he's going to have to like take a big step next year. All right, then you go. They took Nate Danielson ninth overall in 2023. I think jury's still out, but he's still young. Right. Let's see if he's going to have to pop off then you got Michael Branzig Nygaard 15th overall in 2024. He's a guy who's going to also have to pop off. I think he just got called up and then Carter Bear last year. He's in Everett right now. He's lighting it up in the whl. So you had three years in a row with three pretty legit players. You're going to need these next three, if not next year, the year after that to like, like you. You can't do it in free agency. And if you're going to not trade guys like that, maybe one of those guys is a guy like we can get help right now. But biz the Robert Thomas call, that's pretty legit. Yeah. Because then all of a suddenly available

[Ryan Whitney]

and I understand it would have been an aggressive move, but Stevie has to do something come deadline or not deadline, free agency slash draft. Like something has to change about the dynamic of that roster because if they go in next year and it's kind of like, like Yan says, hoping on these prospects to pop that that could be end up being his demise. And I'm going to read you a list now and I want you to tell me and like I don't think I'm being too critical. Connor McDavid clearly the a top first line center. McKinnon, dry seidel, barkov, Crosby, Eichel, Matthews, Braden Point Scheifele, Suzuki, Hughes, Robert Thomas, Ajo, Nico, he sure they got Larkin at 15 on that list. But do you have Stutzel ahead of him?

[Biz Nasty]

I put them in the same.

[Keith Yandle]

I don't know about overall game, but offensive, I think those are pretty similar.

[Biz Nasty]

The same. I think those guys are all the same. Those last like five guys that you've

[Keith Yandle]

said, well, celebrities he's going to be

[Ryan Whitney]

well there you go. Now he's 16.

[Keith Yandle]

Sam Bennett, I mean I'd rather Thompson,

[Ryan Whitney]

Paige Thompson's at 8.

[Keith Yandle]

Sam Bennett. I don't know if you put Sam Bennett on Detroit, it's not like you're fair enough. That's not fair.

[Ryan Whitney]

So depending on who I might be missing somebody on that list. But as we just read it off, you'd have Larkin now at the 17th best center in the National Hockey League, which once again, he's a first line center. But I don't think it would be a bad thing to have help where you alleviate that pressure. You have to. You have to essentially have two. Two in the bottom half of that top 32 list in order to make it work. And Robert Thomas is that. And he was available, so why not go get him? Here's another question for you that I was asked today. Would you right now, would you trade Marit Cider for Zach Warrensky with. With the contract remaining for Wirensky where you would have, I believe, only next year left not knowing that he's gonna. He's signed?

[Keith Yandle]

No, he's too young. I think Cider's gonna win a Norris. No.

[Ryan Whitney]

All right.

[Keith Yandle]

No. If, if, if that deal comes with an extension, which I don't even think that. Is that even possible. But I like cider a lot. Like when I'm looking at Detroit, like that might be the one thing I'm like. You got that?

[Ryan Whitney]

I'm. What I'm curious about as far as this deadline move in order to get your team over there. And remember, Robert Thomas wasn't like a slapping lipstick on a pig or a band aid here. We're talking a guy locked in for, I believe, less money than Larkin. So all of a sudden you have two first line centers that are both making under 9 million. Okay, could you have got it done for two first rounders? One of your goalie prospects, Casper and. Or Finney or either of those options in there? I think you could have done that.

[Biz Nasty]

But towards the end of the trade deadline, we heard that the Robert Thomas deal, if he does get traded, is going to be a summertime deal because it is such a big deal. So maybe it does happen this summer. Maybe they're. They were waiting.

[Billy Jaffe]

But I love the way the Blues played after the trade deadline. They. They probably want to keep them now. Guys, J Fresh Hockey proposed an interesting trade today on Twitter. It was kind of going viral on Twitter.

[Ryan Whitney]

Oh, the future one.

[Billy Jaffe]

Dylan Larkin to the Devils and Nico, he sure. To the Red Wings and, and he sure would have to do a signing trade.

[Biz Nasty]

I'd rather Larkin.

[Ryan Whitney]

Yeah, we put Pasha's face on here. But mute him.

[Keith Yandle]

That's like the same. I don't, I don't know. Do you even see like a huge difference?

[Biz Nasty]

I'd rather Larkin.

[Billy Jaffe]

I would like Larkin as my second behind Hughes.

[Kyle Dubas]

I, I would be on biz.

[Biz Nasty]

You mentioned like the, with the.

[Keith Yandle]

Okay. Yeah.

[Biz Nasty]

McDavid Dry Seidel Barkov, Bennett. Like, those two teams been the finals the last two years. So you're right. You do need two guys in the top 20.

[Keith Yandle]

Every single time you see a legit team, they have two awesome centers. It's. It's. There's no secret to this.

[Biz Nasty]

Crazy.

[Ryan Whitney]

And that's also a big reason as to why I would. Like, I think Pittsburgh could be dangerous.

[Keith Yandle]

Well, we'll get into that with our dubious talk, but we do have another.

[Ryan Whitney]

I think we can move on from.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, we have another eulogy. We have another eulogy. But. But a way different feeling. One, and that's the Islanders. And I'd actually like to know from Islanders fans how they feel. I wonder if they take a step back and they realize, like, God, we had the playoffs. Like, we were there, but we didn't get in. But still, like, not the same feeling in Detroit. Right. Like, it's. I don't think anyone expected them to make the playoffs. No one kind of could foresee what Schaefer would do. The Islanders lose out, and it was just a disaster of a weekend. Dude outscored, I think, 7 to 1, dominated, and they had the chance to kind of at least keep themselves afloat, but they lose both games. They're out now. They also made a big deal for Braden Shen, but in looking at the Islanders, it's like, you got your coach, you got your franchise defenseman. Probably a team that could make some summer moves. Like, Anders Lee's a free agent. I don't know. I don't know what happens there, but there's no. There's not a lot of free agents out there. He could end up getting a bigger payday somewhere else. But any of you guys want to take what you think the Islanders kind of are looking at after the season in terms of, like, it was better than what we thought it would be, but we still had the chance to get in and blew it late.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah, I. I think that's exactly what it is. Like, you get a. A guy like Schaefer, the way that he played this year, realistically, guys are going to want to go play there with him, where a year ago, it probably was a little bit different. But now when you have a young stud like that, like, you're telling me Pete DeBoer takes that job without Shaffer there? I don't think so.

[Keith Yandle]

No, I. No way.

[Biz Nasty]

So it's like you're building something. Did they think they were going to make the playoffs this year? Probably not. You know, being in it towards the end of the season. Having a chance to get in probably stings a little bit more, but I think they're building the right things. Do I think even next year they can make the playoffs? I still don't think so, but you know, Sorokin's unreal, Schaefer's unreal. They got some pieces, but I think they need a lot more. And maybe Deborah sees something more than, you know, I don't see, but I think that there's some holes that need to be filled there. Like Barzell is an awesome player, but you got to surround these guys with, you know, other skilled players and like we were talking about with Detroit, guys that are brutal to play against.

[Billy Jaffe]

Yeah, I think it's a good year for those things too. They got their coach, you got Schaefer. Another big thing. Thing for them is like you say, you need the young skill. They're moving their HL team finally out of Bridgeport. Bridgeport is not a place to develop prospects. They're moving to Hamilton. They'll be in a hockey crazed place.

[Ryan Whitney]

The Hammer. Yep.

[Billy Jaffe]

That is going to be. That is going to be big for the organization going forward.

[Keith Yandle]

I mean, I love Horvat. Barzell leads their team in scoring. Anders Lee, like I mentioned, was kind of going through the roster. Free agent they gave. They gave JG Pageau that extension. Right? Like D' Angelo's a free agent. Emil Hymanen had a good year. 22 goals. He's young. He's only 23 years old. Callum Richie, that's a guy. Okay, that's another prospect. It could be a hell of a player. I don't know. That palat trade does not look great. Pasha, I don't know what you're talking about on the chat right now. That's probably one that they. They.

[Ryan Whitney]

I think he's being sarcastic.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, I know he is. I know he is. He's saying it looks great for him because. Because he. He got rid of Palot and the Islanders took him. Don't love that one. But overall I do think. I don't know, like may. Maybe people would say they're better off being horrible this year. Like maybe that's an argument and then you get another high pick. I don't know where they finish in the lottery, but the Islanders, they. I just look at it like a place nobody wanted to be. That there was zero excitement, boring to watch. And now all of a sudden, one guy's changed it all. So for me, I'm looking at everything as a positive G saying k' Sean Aitchinson will Be nasty. So, I don't know. Have you seen him play? G?

[Billy Jaffe]

Yeah, yeah. He played in the World Juniors too. 17th overall. Played in Barry this season. Was captain of the team. Just like a New York Islanders type player. Just a gritty motherfucker.

[Keith Yandle]

Okay. All right. Well, there you go. So the Islanders, it ended. I thought the Islanders were getting in boys, but biz, you might have opened up my eyes on that TNT segment where I believe you said they stink without Sirope. I think I, I, I'm paraphrasing, but you were like, this team's really bad without.

[Ryan Whitney]

I think I said lipstick on a pig is the term I used, which I like to use a lot.

[Keith Yandle]

So Cirocan was incredible. Incredible season, but we'll see what happens.

[Ryan Whitney]

I don't really have much to say about him other than the fact that like, yeah, they have a franchise D man, and yeah, they got a great coach. But I could also. You just had a year where your goalie was firing Roman candles out of his asshole every night and making big stops and most saves above expected than any other goaltender in the league, or at least top three. So I could see still this team missing playoffs for the next three, four years.

[Biz Nasty]

It's like the Rangers like they're just pissing away these years of having unbelievable goaltending. It's like you gotta, you gotta have, you gotta put a good team around. When you have a goaltender in this league, you have to have a good team around them.

[Keith Yandle]

Well, it's insane because we have, I think LA has three games left, but everyone else is one or two games and we have one playoff series set. That's, that's completely wild. I think that the Rocket Richard still avail still kind of up for grabs. A bunch of stuff remains to kind of be figured out here in the next next couple days. The only matchup we have is Dallas versus Minnesota.

[Ryan Whitney]

But before we get there, can I, can I congratulate the other team from Ontario on making playoffs?

[Biz Nasty]

I was hoping they're Ontario's team and

[Keith Yandle]

I'm saying right now, I don't care. I don't care who ends up winning the Atlantic. They possibly play that team or they get Carolina. Ottawa's winning their first round.

[Billy Jaffe]

Whoa.

[Keith Yandle]

I'm calling it one thing I forgot like that all Mark plays good. Is that now a stupid comment? I'm talking over 9, 10 save percentage 2.4 of.

[Ryan Whitney]

I think he's going to go on a run. I think all Mark's going to go on a run based on everything that's gone this year, that's just how things go in this league. It's just like you think the world is ending and, and the roof's falling off and all of a sudden they're, he's going to be kicking and leading them to the, to the Eastern Conference finals. We know that's how the way this goes, right?

[Biz Nasty]

Maybe.

[Keith Yandle]

Murray, you said, whoa, could they not beat Carolina?

[Billy Jaffe]

No, I, I like that. They have been, they've been one of the best teams when they get the just average goaltending. So Omar, he's rested. He took a lot of time off this year. That means he's going to be fresher in the playoffs. I kind of like it. And good odds on that.

[Keith Yandle]

The noise, the usual Maple Leafs noise. This year, it was kind of all over Ottawa.

[Ryan Whitney]

Thank you.

[Keith Yandle]

Now it's like it's all over. Like, now we're in the playoffs. We got through that nonsense. We're in.

[Ryan Whitney]

Well, I had their fucking. Their Twitter account coming after me because of a take I had a few a few weeks ago where I said, listen, they were. All the Ottawa fans were at each other's necks. Like, the fan base was divided on, on the Brady subject. They had rumors of infidelity earlier in the year. Then they're going after all Mark for taking a game off, for a mental health.

[Biz Nasty]

Heads are falling off.

[Ryan Whitney]

Pets are pets. Heads are falling off. And so of all people that come after, once they clinch, it's the Ottawa Senators coming after me because I said that we're still the fucking Kings of Ontario, which we are. You can't label yourself the king of anywhere if you haven't won a fucking playoff series, let alone never beaten our team, the other team, in Ontario, in a playoff series. We're 5 and oh against them. We beat them last year. So I'll tell you what, Ottawa and

[Keith Yandle]

their fans, you're in the lottery.

[Ryan Whitney]

Great team. I've been pumping your tires all year. I've said the more Canadian representation, the better, but it's time to fucking step up and win a playoff series. Because if you don't, you ain't the king of nothing. King of shit's creek. That's the only thing you're the king of. If you lose a series.

[Keith Yandle]

The only worry is, did you see Brady Saturday night? I don't know what the hell happened, but all of a sudden he's on the bench, like, curled over. I I and he didn't play Sunday, so I don't know. Has any news come out G today? Have they said anything? Because that Was bizarre. It didn't even look like anything really happened. They almost got tangled up. Hopefully he's okay.

[Ryan Whitney]

All we need though is. Is another, Another song coming out of Ottawa.

[Keith Yandle]

They learned their lesson last year. They learned their lesson.

[Ryan Whitney]

That girl's still been rapping.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, but it was the band in front of the arena. It was, it was a disaster. It was a. That was when they lost the Leafs. When that, when that garage band showed up and played that God awful song, it was over.

[Biz Nasty]

They're playing Coachella right now.

[Ryan Whitney]

No way. Headliner.

[Keith Yandle]

They got, they got the call up. But guys, before actually. Did we see the final Sid OV matchup? Because Sunday guys, and Washington, by the way, they work over Pittsburgh two in a row this weekend, back to back. I don't know if you got a glimpse of the largest line to ever play hockey together, the two brothers. And Tom Wilson, by the way, the other Protoss, he's got four points in three games. I think three of them were Sunday's game maybe or maybe Saturdays. He's given his brother a tap in and one of the goals, he's scoring his own goal. There's another Protoss. Biz brother's built in a lab. Don't forget about Bella. Belarus. Imagine the labs in Belarus because they're a lot different than over here. You could do some badass. That's not illegal in Belarus. So the other protest comes. He's with his brother, he's with Wilson. They're running around like lunatics. Leonard looks incredible. Cole Hudson's dominating. Philadelphia has their, you know, they control their own destiny here. But Washington's not dead yet. But OV and Sid, boys, that might be it. That could be it. 21 frigging years.

[Biz Nasty]

Hundredth time they played, as I hear that they played a hundred times. And let's not forget like when they came in the league, like if they came in the league right now with the way that the NHL markets players, like they weren't marketing players back then the way they were on oln. Yeah, exactly. The outdoor network. But like the way that they were able to save the game and, and you know, realistically lace all of our pockets with paychecks and keep the game afloat and keep it relevant. Like it's, it's, it's truly amazing what they've done for the league. And I think obviously people realize it, but they're going to go down in history as obviously great players, but you know, as two guys like you think of like Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, the way that they Saved the NBA like those guys saved the NHL. And you know, it was coming after the lockout and then you get this Russian guy who's just fucking scoring goals at will. And then this, you know, Canadian hometown grown rivalry just does everything right. Like it's. What'd you say?

[Keith Yandle]

Heated rivalry on and off the ice. And biz. It is crazy that the lockout happened and then these two show up. Talk about the NHL being a reality show.

[Ryan Whitney]

Yeah, I just, we, we talked about it on the broadcast too. The fact that with the amount of pressure and the amount of things that could pull somebody with that much fame and power in the wrong direction, yet these guys play 20 years, carry the league, do what they do statistically, they win all the, the hardware. Each of them got their Stanley Cup. And then to, to get through those 20 years where nothing, no fucking, no Dewey's, no fucking bullshit off the ice, no scandals and, and to the full other spectrum of it is just carry themselves with complete class grace and represent our game the best way they possibly could. There was a, a video that came out on SportsCenter. Steve Levy kind of quarterbacked it. And it was just all these people from the, the D.C. area just communicating to Ovi in person just how much of an impact they made on their lives. And, and, and you know, I think that obviously he got the attention because the rumor is that he's going to be done with, but I can only imagine the video that'll come out for Sid when it's his time to finally hang him up. And I don't know, like I said on the broadcast too, like the volatility of me thinking he's retiring to not retiring, it's like going. It's like a stock market. I'm like up and down, up and down. You know, you, you come into the season, the guy selling season tickets who won actually the free. He won a free trip because he sold the most season tickets for the, for the Capitals, which was nice. He puts out the email. Hey, ovi's last season, get your season tickets here.

[Keith Yandle]

That's why I think he's retiring. I'm still going back to that admin guy.

[Billy Jaffe]

If you watch the game though, last night Sid tried to do the handshake, get the whole team.

[Ryan Whitney]

I was going through the volatility.

[Billy Jaffe]

OVI wiped him off. Did he wipe off because he's coming back or he thinks he's going to see him in the playoffs?

[Ryan Whitney]

You bookmarked my volatility. But then all of a sudden you're like 60, 70 games go by and this guy hasn't taken a D zone draw. So you're thinking there's no way a guy who a coach wouldn't rely on who could put out there for a D zone face off. Even though he scored over a thousand goals in this league, regular season and playoff, for sure, he's done. Then all of a sudden he does get a D zone draw. He scores like seven goals in seven games. He hits the 30 goal mark for 21 consecutive seasons or whatever it is. 20, 21. And their team now goes on the run where they're not statistically eliminated from playoffs. And then every question he's getting into before the game and after the game, he's swatting away and there's not one ounce of emotion in him. So that leads me to believe he's not retiring.

[Keith Yandle]

He's not lead. He leads the team in scoring.

[Ryan Whitney]

Leads the team in scoring.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah, he ain't leaving. We ain't leaving.

[Billy Jaffe]

But if you, the wife, the wife was, was, was videoing every second of that little goodbye.

[Ryan Whitney]

His son has been out of the womb and he's been handing him pucks player of the game things over the course.

[Keith Yandle]

He might, if he plays, it might solely be, be because his kid doesn't want him.

[Ryan Whitney]

His kid's gonna have a beard by the time O's done playing. Guys, I'm telling you, he ain't leaving.

[Biz Nasty]

I think he's gonna be like LeBron and play with his kid. He's sticking around long enough to play with.

[Ryan Whitney]

That's why Malin went over the night before to play mini sticks with them. They're, they're, they're honing their, they're crafting their skills in order to get them in the league at the same time. So they could be online. You know, G talked about the brothers. All about the brothers, the brother. No, it's going to be about the father son combos. That's the next wave. That's the next wave of player.

[Keith Yandle]

I don't think OVI has a clue. I think that's, I, I, I think he's completely torn. But you got to think that, man, they, they need to find out. The Washington management needs to know at some point.

[Ryan Whitney]

So they brought up our ace, brought up a good point about the Dharma. Imagine he signed a three million dollar deal where legit. All he does is play. Power play.

[Keith Yandle]

Their power play isn't even good, is it?

[Biz Nasty]

He's like an E bug, but just

[Ryan Whitney]

because he's not putting his full concentration into it.

[Billy Jaffe]

They did that Years ago in Chicago, Jeff Hamilton, all he did was play power play. And then the shootouts, when those shootouts first came, he was. That's all he did.

[Biz Nasty]

Sat there to Jeff Hamilton.

[Billy Jaffe]

No, I think we need to be

[Ryan Whitney]

put on Twitter poll.

[Billy Jaffe]

It's been done. You can play with that.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah. My last five years in the league, all I did was play power play.

[Ryan Whitney]

Okay. So not. Not, I guess, the first DH ever. You're like. You're like more like an Ichiro, though. You're not hitting the dingers, you're hitting the singles. Singles and getting walked.

[Keith Yandle]

I think we need to play 27th in the league. Dude, he's standing there. He's just standing there with his stick cocked. Like. I think you're not. You gotta get guys moving around now. Yes. He's 33. He will have. If he played, he could probably score 30 goals in. In 20, 31. Like, I don't. It's not like every year you be like, he got 30. Got 30. It's over there. He's going to get 30. But.

[Ryan Whitney]

All right, time to start a Twitter poll. Twitter poll right now. Is OVI coming back? Is he retiring? Is OVI going to the khl?

[Keith Yandle]

Well, he's. He's playing there. No matter what, he will play there. That's been said that no matter what, he will play there when he's done in the NHL.

[Ryan Whitney]

That'll be so weird to watch him play for the Dynamo next season if that's happening.

[Billy Jaffe]

For his sake, I hope he only plays home games. God, imagine him flying.

[Biz Nasty]

You got the KHL packages watching those games.

[Keith Yandle]

Oh, Mer watches. Mer watches khl. I'm in biz.

[Biz Nasty]

I know Merls does.

[Ryan Whitney]

I'm watching the khl. I think that's it for the OV Sid discussion, because we know Sid's not done, but ovi, it's up in the air. And then one of the things I said on the broadcast, too, if it is the end, I would imagine the goal chase and having all that media coverage and be all that attention for that long made him be like, I do not want that again. Just like this is. He's not the type of guy who wants that type of attention. And then I don't know if people or he followed the Derek Jeter situation when he said it was his final year and every ball diamond he went into, he was getting a go kart.

[Biz Nasty]

He was getting a. Yeah, but he deserved that.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, but the year send off stuff's painful, buddy.

[Ryan Whitney]

I think that Jeter regretting it.

[Keith Yandle]

LeBron's is going to be out of this world. It's going to be completely.

[Biz Nasty]

He might just retire in the summer and not say anything.

[Keith Yandle]

Oh, yeah, right. LeBron, although he loves golf so much now, he might legit, like, he's a golf junkie, so that could really sway him. But I think ovi's done one more year. He's done one more year. I might have just got him back in the league for one more year. But, I mean, Washington's got some nice players coming, man. They. They.

[Ryan Whitney]

Yeah.

[Keith Yandle]

This. This may be one of the dumber things I've ever said, but there could be. If you gave truth serum, Chris Patrick and the entire Washington management, they could say like, we're. We're okay with him retiring.

[Biz Nasty]

No, I would.

[Ryan Whitney]

I would tend to agree with you.

[Biz Nasty]

Sign for 3 million bucks.

[Ryan Whitney]

I don't think it matters.

[Keith Yandle]

I don't even think it's the money. It's just about, like, it's just time to move on, dude. Listen, if he comes back, he's going to get 33 goals, probably around 60ish points again. But it's just another year of kind of delaying the inevitable. Maybe I'm completely wrong. And that might be a ridiculous.

[Ryan Whitney]

They should let him take steroids if he's coming back.

[Keith Yandle]

Ok, I'm down with that. That's actually pretty legit.

[Billy Jaffe]

They stopped him from taking them.

[Ryan Whitney]

I'm gonna leave that one to you. More.

[Keith Yandle]

Do not agree. Do you not think. Do you not think I'm crazy thinking that they might be like, all right, we can't start him in the D zone.

[Ryan Whitney]

Yeah.

[Kyle Dubas]

At the same time, a lot of

[Keith Yandle]

minutes up, he's eating a lot of minutes. We got all these guys coming. But at the same time, he leads them in scoring. So I don't know. I don't know.

[Ryan Whitney]

All right, well, that's enough of that convo. Because we don't really have a clue what he's doing. Only he knows, and as it pertains to him, he doesn't know yet. We got to talk about this first round matchup, the only one that is cemented. We have max two games left for some teams and we still only have one playoff series decided. And it's been like that since halfway through the year, maybe even earlier. Merles, why are the Minnesota Wild a fraud squad?

[Billy Jaffe]

Okay, so I gotta address this. Yes, I sometimes get ahead of myself in the group chat because I've gambled on that team at that moment, and I'm either very upset with them because they're laying an Egg or I'm trying to reverse mush it by putting it in that group chat that they're, they stink. But when I get into the fraud fraud talk, it started with the Kings because I knew they were always going to play the Oilers in the first round and I know they're never going to beat the Oilers in that first round. So I said, yeah, they're fraud squad. I knew that coach didn't have it in them to, to win and he did. He screwed it up against them. So I was right on that one. So this year I moved on to Minnesota and I had a big bet on them and their goalie left the game. He like puked in the crease one game and then the third period leaves the game leaves my bet in question. So I'm losing my mind. Like is this team a fraud squad? And then they play some other team and they completely no showed again. I said I don't like this team in the chat. I'm trying to reverse my bet. But then as I keep looking more, I look at Dallas and they got to play Dallas in the first round and they're not getting past Dallas. I believe in Dallas I could, I could see them even win the Stanley Cup.

[Keith Yandle]

Hints is injured, Heskin is injured. They got some injury questions in Dallas,

[Billy Jaffe]

but with that, with that goalie with their, with the other guys they have, I think they have enough to get past them, no problem. So if you can't get out of the first round, then you're a fraud squad.

[Biz Nasty]

To me, they've kind of been on cruise control for too long, Merles.

[Billy Jaffe]

That could be part of it. That's what I've been, you know, I keep betting on them, so that's maybe why I should have realized they're in cruise control because they know they're not really going anywhere. But I will say on Easter Sunday when they, when they did come back and beat the Red Wings in that game with Caprizov getting the hat trick, I started to change my mind a little bit. But push comes a sub shove. When we do our, our playoff predictions,

[Ryan Whitney]

we're doing them right now.

[Billy Jaffe]

Dallas Stars win that series.

[Ryan Whitney]

How many games?

[Billy Jaffe]

I will do six games.

[Keith Yandle]

I. Hey boys. We spent a lot of time talking center racemen and yes, Hints could be. I don't know if he's going to play in the first round or miss part.

[Ryan Whitney]

No second.

[Keith Yandle]

But Minnesota's center ice position's not ideal biz.

[Ryan Whitney]

I, I agree with you. I don't think they're frauds by any means. The Same way I didn't think that LA can Kings were frauds when they won the first two games of that

[Keith Yandle]

series, but they were.

[Ryan Whitney]

No, they weren't. I don't.

[Biz Nasty]

He said if you lose first round, you're frauds.

[Ryan Whitney]

I don't think that you're. I, I hate. I don't agree with that. I don't agree with that assessment at all.

[Keith Yandle]

And if, if you lose to Dallas. Yeah. In six or seven games, I can't say you're a fraud. I agree with that.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah, it's a good team.

[Keith Yandle]

I agree with that.

[Ryan Whitney]

I'm. I'm. I'm going to say. I'm going to say Billy G's got that Minnesota magic going and I don't know how they're going to do it. And I agree they're weak up the middle compared to Dallas. I think that goaltending, I would definitely give it to Dallas, but I think that Minnesota is going to somehow pull a rabbit out of their ass and beat him in seven games. I'm going to go with the Minnesota Wild. I'm not picking against Billy G again.

[Keith Yandle]

And I think Minnesota, I think you get to playoff style hockey. Minnesota's a tougher team than Dallas.

[Billy Jaffe]

I will say the felino. Like, I love Billy G. I love Kels. I saw him out in Vegas. I don't even think Minnesota had a prospect there, but he had to come there and watch the two games.

[Keith Yandle]

I gotta go to Vegas, honey.

[Billy Jaffe]

But speaking of brothers, the FO brothers, those guys are definitely the X factor in that series. They could just cause an absolute ruckus every game, be all over ranting in every whistle if they can get out there against them. And they, they could be the X factor. But I. I'm on Dallas.

[Ryan Whitney]

I think the biggest key is discipline and how, how well the penalty kill is cranking for Minnesota because Dallas is lethal. They got to shut down Wyatt Johnson. And that's all I got to say about that. Let's go wild, baby. No offense to Dallas because they'll go on a rip, but that's what I got. Minnesota and seven. What do you got?

[Keith Yandle]

I got Dallas and what, seven?

[Kyle Dubas]

Wow.

[Biz Nasty]

Okay. I got Dallas in six. As much as I hate going against Billy G, I just. I've been saying Dallas for the last couple years. I like them coming out of the west, but I think with Ottinger, I think with what happened to him last year, getting pulled, being a part of the Olympic team this year, I think he's. I think he's in a prime position to really show what he's made of this whole, this whole postseason and then the rant and in fact we saw what he did last year. You know, he can win you games if he needs to. I just think they have the more, more power. But the injuries like Whit said, did scare me a little bit going into the first round.

[Ryan Whitney]

Not even the injuries. It's the dead weight they're carrying with Bang Guy. And you know he's going to be in attendance.

[Kyle Dubas]

I don't even.

[Keith Yandle]

They might have banned him. They might. If there's one way they lose this series, it's Bang Guy.

[Billy Jaffe]

That's what Biz is doing. He's trying to bring in the bad juju on us.

[Ryan Whitney]

I'm going to be buying his tickets.

[Keith Yandle]

If Minnesota wins. If Minnesota wins, I think everyone can agree it's going six games, if not seven. It. It'll have to be one of those like QUINN Hughes, like 14 point series. Yeah, like that's, that's the guy that could maybe win this series. I know it's Caprisoft baldy, but Quinn Hughes is the X factor there. So with that, I think it's time to throw it over to Kyle Dubas. What a year it's been in Pittsburgh. Shocking to many people, including me. But it was a great chat and we appreciate it. So right now, Kyle Dubas, very, very, very lucky and pleased to be joined right now by Kyle Dubas, the man who runs the show in Pittsburgh. On the on. I think maybe yesterday or today the Penguins clinched the playoffs. I for one just getting stuffed in a locker by the Penguins admin. I'll take ownership of it, but I wasn't alone. Congratulations on getting in this year and what you've accomplished so far. How you doing?

[Kyle Dubas]

Great guys. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me on. It's been a fun year. The players and the staff have been unbelievable and they've gone out every night and done it. So it's just been fun to be a part of and you know, we got to just get ready this week for the upcoming weekend in the playoffs. So it's great.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Whitney]

Do you think the content piece with the Pittsburgh mayor was what really got you guys sparked this year and got you guys going? That was unbelievable.

[Biz Nasty]

This is him.

[Kyle Dubas]

That was. They. They came to me about do doing that and it was, you know, his chief of staff. It was important to them as he was just getting ready to come into office. So I just said if we're going to do it, we may as well try to have some fun with It.

[David Carl]

There's.

[Kyle Dubas]

This is the enough difficult days when you do this and, and it's. It's a great job but the more fun you can have, the better, as you guys know.

[David Carl]

So it was, oh, you.

[Ryan Whitney]

You leaned into that nice. And people were loving it. Your. Your guys admin's been crushing it this year as far as even the love you guys showed to the fans in that video you guys posted the other day for supporting you guys through the dark times and what a quick turnaround it was. I don't think anybody expected this. And you made some very ballsy moves in the off season. And I guess we could start with Dan Muse. Like, you probably have this pressure on you to get Crosby back to the playoffs with this group and just hiring a coach who's never been a head coach in the NHL. Like, what was that process like for you?

[Kyle Dubas]

I think we went into it biz. Well, we went into it and what we were really looking for was someone that had two things. A great record, developing younger players. And so if you go, you know, with Dan, he was at Yale, then with the Chicago Steel, national championship at Yale, one with the Steel, and then he had the US Program under his belt as well. And those are all purely developmental jobs and done a great job there. And then it was digging into the feedback on him running the penalty kill for Nashville and the Rangers and talking, you know, so we knew the developmental piece was. Was really strong. And then it was trying to get feedback from veteran players that had had them in Nashville, Rangers. And that all came back extremely, you know, extremely positive, more positive than almost anybody that else that we had. We were talking to about the position. And so we interviewed him and then he came into Pittsburgh as one of the final four or five people. And, you know, he wasn't on any lists or. And I don't know if he interviewed anywhere else, but just for us, it felt like the best fit to accomplish what we wanted to accomplish last off season. And we were unanimous as a, as a group and management that he was going to be the. The best person for the Pittsburgh Penguins. And I mean, I've never worked with anybody. The work ethic is. That was kind of the, you know, the, the mystique around Dan was the, the work ethic was unmatched. And he talked to the people who he'd coached with before, and they all asserted that he's, you know, the hardest working person they've ever worked with. And he's proven that this year with us. And, and I think he's for me, the best part of working with him in my role is that no matter what's happened during the year, injuries, illness, suspensions, you know, in December, we had a bad stretch. We started to falter a little bit. And no excuses, no, you know, no blaming of the players, what we don't have or where we lack, and just trying to get the most out of every single person that we have as a member of our group. And they get really connected with the players, and they really, you know, they played their ass off for them all year, and it's been fun to see it all kind of come together.

[Biz Nasty]

I mean, that's going to be a tough decision. Right? Especially with guys like Sid Geno, your fan base, just bringing in an unknown name like that and, you know, especially after having Sully for so long. And I've known Dan Muse pretty much my whole life. He played for my dad in high school. Like his family, really good friends with his family. Just. He's just a great person. But bringing him into that situation of, you know, the. The lore of your organization, that had to have been a tough, tough decision to make.

[Kyle Dubas]

Yeah, I think the. The key versus Keith on that was that, like, having been here the previous two years, like, you kind of knew the, you know, all that comes with, you know, how great the veteran players are in their expectation. And then, you know, going through the previous two seasons with them that obviously didn't. Didn't go the way that. Especially the first year, the way anybody really wanted to, and then transition it last year is. It gave me the. The experience to know, you know, how to, you know, at least help, you know, give my two cents to Dan on how to handle those guys as it went through the year and what was really going to earn their respect. And I just felt that if he was able to execute as he had at his previous stops and. And communicate with them and hold everybody accountable, that. That it would get through to the whole group, not just the younger players or some of the other older guys. And he's, you know, and I think the staff that he put around him has been really, really. It's been fun to watch that.

[Keith Yandle]

He's got.

[Kyle Dubas]

We've got two veteran guys and Todd Nelson and Mike Stuthers, and then we've got two younger coaches, Rich Clune, who was with Anaheim last season, and, And. And then Nick Bonino, who played with a lot of these guys and won with a lot of these guys and. And has always had their reputation as someone who could be a coach once he was Done playing. And the way that the staff, you know, the bench staff has come together that way, I think it's. It's. Dan built that out and it was, you know, all those hires were. Were his hires. And he did a great job to, you know, compliment himself with. With what he felt he was going to need, both in terms of experience and ability to connect with the guys.

[Ryan Whitney]

No way. So he. See, he seeked out Bonino and Clune, and that was all his doing.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah.

[David Carl]

So Nick.

[Kyle Dubas]

Nick had obviously played for the Penguins and. And won two Stanley Cups and then played for Dan in Nashville and with the Rangers.

[Billy Jaffe]

Oh, yeah.

[Kyle Dubas]

And so, you know, Dan was running the penalty kill. It's Nick Bonino. I don't think he's ever not been on the penalty kill with any level. And so, you know, he. They had a great relationship. And. And when I, as soon as we hired Danny said, you know, the. One of the first guys he wanted to talk to was Nick Bonino about joining his staff. He'd always. They'd always talked about him getting into coaching, and he was so positive that Nick would be a great fit. And Nick has been an unbelievable fit. Is a. You know, he's got the relationship with the guys from playing with them and going through everything to win with them, but the intelligence and how quickly he's adapted to coaching has been. And Grape Cluner, you know, had played for me in. In Toronto and then been a part of our development staff in Toronto, then went to Anaheim and, you know, Dan had asked about him because he got. When Anaheim made all their changes, he became free last summer and just thought for someone on the development side, but also, you know, he's made his whole career on toughness and grinding it out and then getting into the development part, you know, and so he met with Dan and that was. That was a great fit, but we work closely on it, but it was all. It was all Dan to build that out and identify who he wanted, the types of people he wanted. And we just, you know, it was. Ended up being, you know, a great fit for all of us.

[Keith Yandle]

There's been so many individual storylines with your team. Like, you look at a bunch of guys that just. The years they've had are incredible. For me, I guess, as a defenseman, seeing Eric Carlson and what he's done, and I was talking to Kevin Hayes, he's like, I think he's the best player in the NHL the last two months. Like, I've just. What I'm seeing every night is crazy. What do you Think kind of not necessarily click, but what brought him to this level this year and what he's been able to do for you guys.

[Kyle Dubas]

For me, the key thing with. With Eric has been there was a stretch. Well, there's two moments that I think stand out to me. The first was he got hurt in. In January and the narrative around it was, you know, he. It was a. Is a hamstring injury and well, he'll. He'll just get ready to go for the Olympics. And you know, he was supposed to be out really right until the, you know, the edge of the beginning of the Olympics in February. And he busted his ass to come back and he. He came back in the second game of a. Second game of a. Back to back in Edmonton, which as a defenseman with a lower body injury. Edmonton? Yeah.

[Ryan Whitney]

Yeah.

[Kyle Dubas]

He had two days off after that. Then we were to Vancouver and then we were home and had another four days, three days off.

[Ryan Whitney]

And.

[Kyle Dubas]

And it just. He.

[Keith Yandle]

He could have waited.

[Kyle Dubas]

Could have waited. He worked to get back into that game. And then coming out of the Olympic break when. When Sid was out, he. You started to see him like when you're in our room, as you guys know, either from your experience or from just being around it, you know, Sid. Everyone looks to Sid for. For everything. And when he was out after the Olympic break, it I think gave Eric a chance to be at his best in terms of leadership and, you know,

[David Carl]

put a little bit more of the

[Kyle Dubas]

responsibility and onus on him. And at that point was where he really just all started to come together. The whole year I thought he'd been really good defensively. They trusted him on the penalty kill and they. They just. They really put him into a spot to kind of. To take different steps. And his skating has always been so great and obviously the puck movement, but this year it's been the defending and then as it's gone on, you know, the. The commitment and the. And the leadership that he's shown to the. To the group. And I'm really happy for him because, as you know, he's. He's quite a polarizing guy in terms of reputation, what people say about him. And he's. He's way more competitive than I think people give him credit for.

[Keith Yandle]

And.

[Kyle Dubas]

And he's shown that this year in spades. And it's been. It's been great to see him play at the.

[David Carl]

The.

[Kyle Dubas]

At this level, especially at. At. At his age, and just leads you to think there's. There's a lot more left in the tank for him. And I think the guys now, they want to help try and win for him because he's one of the guys that hasn't got to the, to the finish line yet in, in the playoffs.

[Ryan Whitney]

So it's because of Sid? Because. Yeah, yeah.

[Biz Nasty]

I just want to stick with the demon theme here. That wit started, but Ryan Shea, another guy that has kind of came out of nowhere this year. He's. I think he's got 34 point, but the biggest thing for me was plus 30, which I think was like 14 or 13 points higher than anybody else on your team. He's going to be a UFA this summer. Like, how much does a guy like that have? And I know in the beginning of the year he was playing with Tanger, and then he's able to play with, you know, maybe your six guy or a guy who's called up. You could trust him in any situation. Like, how nice is it to have a guy like that pop off?

[Kyle Dubas]

I think he's played with almost everybody now, Keith, and it's. Yeah, it's hard. That's, It's a lot to ask. It's. He's been with Connor Clifton now pretty consistently as, as a, as a really good pairing, and together it even strengthened on the penalty kill. You know, when, when I think when Tanger and Eric Carlson were out, he was on the pal. He's, he's, he's not been on the power play. He's done everything we could have asked. He was identified by our pro staff, you know, in the summer three years ago, and then it'd been up and down a little bit. And then this year, right from the beginning, you know, Dan and, and Mike Stuthers had a real belief in him and, and he's just continued to earn his way into more and more minutes and opportunity, and he's the defenseman on the team that I think when he goes out, the coaches feel safe and everybody feels good about. Our players voted him the best defensive player on the team last week, and him, he and Blake Lazotte and so, like, I think when your peers think that way about you, I think that that says a lot to us. And he's, he's an awesome guy, one of the more popular guys on the team, and just, you know, no maintenance for us in management. Even in the previous years when he wasn't playing, playing as much, no complaints from him or, or, or anybody, just, you know, continuing to earn his way to more and more and, and, and help the team. So he's been, he's Been great to have around and obviously really happy he's in his third season with us now, but happy he at this stage he's been able to continue to take steps and, and he's doing at a great time. As you said, unrestricted free agent at the end of the year. So it'll be a well earned payday for, for Ryan Shea.

[Ryan Whitney]

That's awesome. I mean we could keep going down the list. Like I was talking about it on TNT because we had you yesterday about. You should probably be top three nominee for, for GM Management of the year.

[Biz Nasty]

Absolutely.

[Ryan Whitney]

Who do you credit like along with you and the rest of your staff? Because you look I think Jazz pointed out like 10 or 11 guys have had career years like you brought in guys like, like Brazo Mantha Novak having a career year. China Cob, who that kid is so fun to watch. It's like the reboot rebirth of Jake Gensel. Especially at the fact that he's got the 59 on. On the jersey like the water spoon. The fourth line in general has been probably the best, most consistent fourth line. So who helped you this off season like carve out this, this basically this retool on the fly that's allowed this core group to now get another shot at Lord Stanley.

[Keith Yandle]

I the.

[Kyle Dubas]

The credit to me vis go it's the players. They're. They're the ones that go out and, and do it. You know, they, they, they've earned their opportunity and they've all been the work they put in coming in training camp all the way through, buying into it, sticking together. When things got a little bit shaky for us in December, you know, we had some really difficult losses and it's, it's. In the end it's the players like we in this, in this position. You're here, you're watching, you're trying to help provide the resources and build and help build the environment with the coaching staff. But in the end the players go on the ice and doing the coaching staff, they go behind the bench and they're, they're, you know, in, in the fight to some extent with them. So that's where all the credit should go. I'm really lucky to the. With the management group that we have, you know, Jason Spezza and I talk and argue with each other for hours a day.

[Ryan Whitney]

Fuck you matches. A couple fuck you matches here and there.

[Kyle Dubas]

Yeah, we, we have one a day we get into about something and that goes back to when he played for us as well in Toronto.

[David Carl]

So it was.

[Kyle Dubas]

We were used to it but he's, he loves to argue and, and so I, I try to provide a willing opponent for him when he, even days when there's nothing to argue about, he'll find something. So it's, it keeps you sharp that way. But, and we, we've got a, we've got Vuki Mapofu. He does our contracts and, and salary cap and league compliance. Amanda Kessel on our staff, Wes Clark and Jonathan Ehrlichman. Wes does the player personnel and draft and Jonathan runs our R and D or analytics department. Then we have, you know, Andy Socier runs our, our pro department. Andy was video staff and the video coach before moving into the front office and he runs the pro department now and, and has done, done a great job with that. So it's, it's a, it's a good group. It's a lot of fun to work with this group especially. And, and you know, I think they'll all, you know, as it goes on, they'll all have their opportunities to hopefully move on and run their own teams. And, but in the end, the credit to me, I always in this position, the players are the ones on the ice going out and doing it. They're putting it on the line every single night and it's about them.

[Keith Yandle]

So you mentioned the draft and Wes Clark, who I know was with you in Toronto. Yeah. Did you have any idea that, that Kindle would be playing for you guys this quick, let alone, you know, coming up on 20 goals? The guy doesn' 19 for I think another week and you, you know, you see 11th overall and you're like, oh, we got a player there in the future. But I certainly didn't think maybe this season he'd be in the lineup playing this well.

[Kyle Dubas]

I think what we thought was that he, he had a really good, we went to, we go, we went to Buffalo for the like the prospect tournament and he was just, you saw the smarts and the intelligence and, and you, he, he really impressed defensively there, which is really not when you go to those events. You know, it's all like Twitter highlight reels or Instagram reels of the, the high end skill play. But as you guys know, the coaches and, and management don't necessarily look just at that. And so he's really impressive there. And we had planned to play two or three exhibition games and probably get him back to Calgary in the Western League, but he just, you know, in training camp, in the training camp practices, scrimmages and then in the exhibition games he played, he just kept getting better. And better as it went out. And then so we, at the very end of our exhibition season we really threw him in the deep end. Detroit was basically playing their full lineup. Regular NHL is at home and we, you know, went with him as the number one center there and he had another great game and so he had, he'd earned it the whole way. And that's just really the only way to put it. Do we expect that he would have, you know, 35 points and, and be on the penalty kill and be trusted in all situations? I'd be lying if we said that that would, that that was a prediction at the beginning of the year. And so he, we thought, you know, certainly over time he would get there but you know, at, at 18 years old and, and he's not, as you said, he's, he's not turning 19 here yet for, for another bit. So he, he earned it. And I think it's, it's the intelligence and obviously the skill sets was impressive but the intelligence and, and, and you know, and Wes's major thing was just really underrated defensive ability as well. And because he's not the biggest guy but just the smarts and ability to make stops and be trusted and kill penalties. It's, it's really been what earned the trust with Dan and the staff and let him kind of get thrust into greater situations here.

[Biz Nasty]

I was going to ask you about. We just interviewed David Carl and just kind of for even for you guys, NHL GMs and teams managing the whole, you know, where guys are going to be playing after you draft them, whether it's major junior college. Are you guys if say kids in major junior. Are you telling him hey, after maybe do a couple years in college or are you guys just kind of letting these kids figure it out on their own?

[Kyle Dubas]

It's been a really different landscape this year, Keith especially like so we've, we had three first round picks last year. Kendall out of the Western League, Bill's on and out the of Quebec major Junior League and or Quebec Maritime Junior League and then Will Horcoth at Michigan. So Horof was the easy one. He was staying at, at, at Michigan. But then the other two, you know, the Saturday afternoon when the draft ended, driving home, it was all colleges reaching out about what Kindle and Bill Zonen were going to do. And then as the years gone on throughout and they both elected to go back to major junior in Z's case and then Kindle was set to do that, signed with us and then obviously made the team and has Played the full year, but then throughout the year now it's been the, you know, we had 13 picks last year. It's been trying to handle the, the guys who were on the college track, whether they should go to college at 18 or 19 or go to major junior, and then the guys that were in major junior, whether they should sign or whether they should get, should stay a major junior or whether they should go to college. And so it's something that we haven't dealt with before. And I think in each individual case, it's, it's, it's different. So some, you know, some guys need, you know, they need the opportunity to play more. They need the rigors of a, of a long season and, you know, 60, 70 games and playoffs and other guys need, you know, the benefits that college may offer. So we don't, we've tried not to get involved with, you know, actual actually giving advice to our guys. We want them to make their own independent decisions on their future. But if, if we think they're ready to sign and, and turn pro right away, we'll obviously go down that path. But, you know, and if they want our advice on which programs are, are good college programs, from our experience, we'll give that as well. But it's, it's still very new. So it basically every week there's something different that's changing about it. And it's, it's been really interesting that way. But I think it's always great for players to have options. I think now, you know, you're going through. It was great to see some of our guys in the NCAA tournament. The pressure and how they play in that pressure. And then now in major junior playoffs, we have a lot of our guys playing in those. And so you learn how they go through the ups and downs of a series when you're down to nothing or you lose the first game at home. And are they able to respond and learn how to go through that? So it's all been, I think both, both avenues are great for players development and we will only really get involved, but we think of players going into a bad program where they're not really going to develop.

[Keith Yandle]

I'm wondering too about Malkin, right? Like, lucky I had the chance to

[Ryan Whitney]

play, I was going to ask about

[Kyle Dubas]

and just try to bully him into a contract.

[Keith Yandle]

And it's so funny and like, what's crazy for Biz and I have talked when we played with him, he didn't really speak English. So like, his, his personality, I didn't get to, you know, really understand. It's become evident since. But over a point per game this year, another one I probably didn't see coming. I don't know if you would talk to him in the off season. I know obviously the contracts become a big story, but how, how have you enjoyed kind of working with him and what he's done this year and, and how much of a character is he as you've gotten?

[Ryan Whitney]

He's a bully. He's a bully.

[Kyle Dubas]

He's, he's, he's. I. It's one of the more enjoyable players that I've ever had the chance to work with. He's, he's, he's hilarious. So there's. Every day you're going to. He gives you some sort of, like, massive laugh, which I think is so important, and especially as you go through a full year, very proud, obviously, as you guys know, very clearly wants to continue to play. I think he's been very public in his desire to do that, which, which, I mean, and, and I think he's, as I've said to him, he's earned. If he can say whatever he wants, he's earned the right to say whatever he wants and express. Express himself. And he's, he's had a great year and it's certainly showing and proving that he's, he's got a lot left in the tank. And I think the thing we've seen this year is he's, he's, he's missed some time. And every time he comes back from that, it kind of gets to that point where you worry about if. How a guy comes back when he's off and he comes back stronger, with more energy, faster and puts great work in which I think, you know, it comes. Comes back every year in great shape. And so I've, I've really enjoyed having Gino and, and like, you know, he and I talked at. Right after the Olympic break about how we're going to handle it as we go to the end of the year. And, and, but hopefully, hopefully that conversation gets continually delayed here as we go through the coming weeks.

[Keith Yandle]

He definitely walks by you and says, give me a new contract. Like, I, I could just see him doing well.

[Ryan Whitney]

You're the same age, right?

[Biz Nasty]

This man, his monies.

[Kyle Dubas]

Yeah.

[David Carl]

Oh, it's so great.

[Kyle Dubas]

Yeah, he's. Oh, he's awesome. So he does, he doesn't actually, he doesn't actually walk by and say anything, but he, he is very clear with the media. And then, and then I'll talk to him after, because it's not In a confrontational way. Just really because I enjoy talking with him about it. So it's, it's good.

[Ryan Whitney]

It's almost like he's playing like little media games, like trying to get things stirred up.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah. Now he speaks English. Abyss.

[Ryan Whitney]

Oh yeah.

[Kyle Dubas]

Fluent, fluid.

[Ryan Whitney]

Yeah. You want to talk back? Check or, or Michelle Terry and calling you the office. All of a sudden you need Gonchar as an interpreter. I'll tell you, my first training camp with him, he showed up all brand new gear, skates out of the box, trainer sharpens them, goes on the ice during scrimmage, dancing, everybody best player on the ice. And then once camp really got going, I think that that was like the, the year after where he, he'd got all these rookie bonuses. So like I obviously wasn't with him the season before and he was on the bike, we were next to each other and he got like a million dollar bonus check and Frank Bonomo went and dropped it off to him and I'm like, what's that? And he opened it and showed me and I was like a million dollars on a check. Yeah, he still, he didn't know how to say a world word of English. So he just showed me and he's like, I think he went and bought a new Porsche like that week. But I was going to ask also about Sid, like, do you, like, it's kind of weird, right? You're close to the same age and this guy is like basically on hockey's Mount Rushmore. Do you maybe consult with him more than you would like a normal player? Like when you're about to hire a head coach, do you have to like, hey, what's up? I started.

[Keith Yandle]

People think that, I think people, a lot of people think Sid like is a part of decision making.

[David Carl]

Making.

[Kyle Dubas]

Yeah. So the way that I've, it's, it's interesting. So in my, when I was in Toronto, we had, we had Spez, who's older than me and we had Jumbo, who Jumbo was, is both older than me and growing up in Sault Ste. Marie, he was like the first, like when I was 10, 11. What year did he come in there? So he's, he's six years older than me. So I was like 10 when he came in and was a 16 year old playing for the Sioux Greyhounds. And then he signed with us in Toronto and, and so I, I had that experience of dealing with those that we had. You know, we had Wayne Simmons, we had Ron Hainsey. So we had, we had all these guys that were Older than me and you know, so, and intelligent, accomplished guys and, and, and you know, in some of their cases, I mean, Jovan Jumbo's case of first ballad hall of Famer. So that, that kind of was a great. For my own development in terms of how to deal with those guys for me and. But with Sid is in a different category. Like, I think everyone would acknowledge that and cares deeply about the Penguins. Has only played for the Penguins, won three times, you know, before I ever got here. Deeply committed to winning. And what I've learned over time is he. You're always best to. With all of them to, to you basically just explain to them what you're thinking and why rather than necessarily ask them for their opinion. There's some things where you need their opinion on and I think that applies to veteran groups all throughout, wherever you're at. But I think if you're just very clear with them about what you're thinking and why they might not always like it, but if they understand where you're coming from that it'll be. They'll. They'll look to that and they're really good people, so they're not looking at it and trying to figure out why it's not going to work. It's, you know, it's like, okay, well, we're going to go down this path. We might not love it, but this is where it's coming from. And then it's up to, really up to our decision making to prove that it, that it works or that it was the right call. So, yeah, and I don't, I don't know necessarily that any of the players want that burden of, of being a part of the decision making. They got enough on their plate with having to prepare and get ready to play, especially as they, as they, you know, they're playing at such a high level so late in their career, all of them, which I think is, it's, It's. We've got four guys in their, in their late 30s that are playing at an elite level on our team. It's remarkable. So adding more to their plate, I think would be a, a disservice to them. So it's. I, I try in every case to explain to them, you know, what. Why we're doing what we're doing and, and so that they at least can understand where we're coming from.

[Biz Nasty]

Just for you, like, I think when you were hired as GM in Toronto, you were 30 years old, right? Maybe even younger?

[Kyle Dubas]

No, I think I did. Maybe a bit older as I, I Went. I went to Toronto. I was 28 and then it was five. Yeah, five. So 30. 32 or 33.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah. So I mean, just being that young and with all that media attention and everything in Toronto, like for you, do you think you enjoy it more now just being in that show for as long as you were and kind of dealing with everything. People like Biz calling you every weekend, trying to get tickets or whatever. But now it just, like even just talking to you and seeing you in interviews, it just seems like you're more like yourself. You're just doing your thing, having fun and enjoying the game like as much as possible.

[Kyle Dubas]

I really enjoyed the time in Toronto as well. I didn't really. I think it's probably just now with more experience and being a little bit older, my kids are a little bit older. I've just. You've got more, you know, and like we would be on here forever going through the mistakes made over like in my career, all, all, you know, all through and you learn from those and, and try to apply them as, as best you can. And I think that just, you know, when it gives you a little bit more confidence and belief in what you're doing and. But I really enjoyed the time in Toronto. I didn't find, I don't find it all too different. I think people try to make it to be that way. I think the, like, the city's a little bit bigger but like the, the outside noise, the amount of attention on the team, it, it, to me it's very similar in terms of my personal day to day here in Pittsburgh as it was in Toronto. The hardest thing for me ever was actually in I, I was the GM. I became the GM of the Sioux when I was 25. And I, like, it's my hometown, you know, everybody there, there's nowhere you could go. I mean, I don't know. Biz has been there for sure, but I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if you guys have ever, you know, made your way to Sussein.

[Ryan Whitney]

I was playing in the old barn.

[Kyle Dubas]

Yeah.

[Ryan Whitney]

Where they had the dip in the seats there. They got the new building now.

[David Carl]

Yeah.

[Kyle Dubas]

So that was my hometown. It's a small town. The, you know, the greyhounds are everything, especially in the winter. And I was 25 and it was everywhere you went. It was sort of people like with their opinion on the team and their opinion of you. And we struggled the first year there badly and then got it rolling. But that to me was in terms of my own personal space and, and the, like, just the, the weight that to me was by far the, the most. And so, you know, even. Even I just don't know any other way to explain that. And I don't expect people to really to, you know, understand it, or they listen and say, like, geez, how could, how could that be with, you know, the Leafs or the Pittsburgh Penguins? But that's just for me, been my personal experience. Maybe it was an age thing for me at that time or lack of experiencing, but that there'll never be anything like that for me. So, yeah, I, I think, you know, it's. Those are the three experiences that I've had and I've. I've thoroughly enjoyed every one of them. And, and obviously we didn't. We didn't get it done in Toronto, so that's a, That's a regret. And just try to take what was learned there and, and try to help the Pittsburgh Penguins as much as impossible.

[Biz Nasty]

The fact that you don't have any grays just says a lot about your.

[Ryan Whitney]

Yeah, it's pretty impressive. Unless you're unbelievable just for men's or something.

[Keith Yandle]

You haven't worked with biz yet, though.

[Kyle Dubas]

It'll.

[David Carl]

It.

[Kyle Dubas]

It'll be gray soon.

[David Carl]

It won't be long now.

[Ryan Whitney]

Okay, so I want to ask a fun one here. If you had a genie in a bottle and we could do three, but almost maybe if you want to narrow it down to one, if you could have one redo on a movie move you've made throughout your NHL career as a giving biz.

[Biz Nasty]

The jacket, the blue jacket.

[Ryan Whitney]

That wasn't him. That was him. And that's what tore it all apart. That's what they argued over and why it parted ways. Right. That's right.

[Biz Nasty]

I'm out if this happens.

[Ryan Whitney]

No, because Carlson's trying to recruit me. They sent me the cardigan. But I'll tell you this right now, I'm not jumping on the bandwagon because I don't have much luck right now, even though Eric extended the olive branch. I won't, I won't. I won't bring you guys down. I promise.

[Kyle Dubas]

Well, we appreciate that.

[Ryan Whitney]

Yeah.

[Kyle Dubas]

To me, the. The one that I regret most is. I think I've said this before, openly. It's Mason Marchmont. We traded Mason to Florida. Yeah, he. He had come up with us the whole way. We signed him to a minor league deal as after his overage season in Major Junior, and, you know, he was in Orlando and Echo for most of the first year. He didn't play for three months. Like just working with the development team and that was my responsibility. Then I was 16, 17 with the Leafs. Working for Lou, and he came so far, helped us win a Calder cup in 2018 was a huge part of that. Made his NHL debut the next year, which was awesome. And then, you know, he was 25, I think, at the time, or 24.

[David Carl]

4.

[Kyle Dubas]

We moved him to Florida and it was, you know, we. We didn't. We just. We needed the skill at that point. We had some guys out of the lineup and was a younger skill guy that came in.

[Biz Nasty]

Mulgin.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah.

[Kyle Dubas]

Dennis Mulgin. Yeah. And, you know, it was in just for me. Just, you know, I, I always. Every time I see Mason play, like, no matter where he is, I just kick myself because we really needed the. That style of player throughout and I, you know, just the competitiveness, the ability to score, the ability to get under people's skin, the physicality, the ability to get to the net. You know, it just. I always kick myself about that one, especially because he'd been with us for. For so long and had come so far and. Yeah, that. That's one. I always. I always.

[Ryan Whitney]

Interesting.

[Kyle Dubas]

Yeah.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, okay.

[Ryan Whitney]

I thought maybe the cadre one would have been one, but. But yeah, that was. That was obviously a tough one. I try to put salt in the wound here, but. No, I appreciate. I appreciate that answer.

[Kyle Dubas]

Yeah.

[Ryan Whitney]

What was it like working with Lou? Like, I'm sure you learned so much from him. He's like a vault, though. He doesn't give you anything, right?

[Kyle Dubas]

He's. He's the best. I love Lou. And he and I still to this

[Keith Yandle]

day, like we were.

[Kyle Dubas]

I just saw him a couple weeks ago when we. When we played in New York. He's a. You know, I. He's just a special person. And I think every, you know, there's. Obviously he's had tremendous success, three Stanley Cups and, you know, I. I thought did it so much for the standards in the culture when he came into Toronto. Just. He teaches you that every single small detail is going to matter. And at the beginning, it's a lot. And for the first couple years, it was. It was a lot. Every single thing. The way the guys wore their tape on their socks, the, you know, guys chin straps being undone in. In the American League and warm up. Obviously the. The grooming was a. Was a big topic, but then you see the impact over time, and I think people on the outside, they. They can. They make fun of it a little bit and they question whether in. Of terms, you know, whatever it was 20, 15, 16, whether it was going to have an impact, but it was, it was massively important. And, and then over time, you started to see how much you really, deeply, genuinely cares about your development, then your family's development, and then how much you're taking care of your family. And you like it. Just, it's, it's. He's a really, really special person. And, and being able to work for Lou is the most fortunate experience that I've. I've had in my, in my whole, whole life in terms of someone to work for. I think the Sioux Greyhounds, I wouldn't be anywhere without them. They gave me a massive opportunity when I was a little kid, then again to run the team and just. I wouldn't be here today without that. But in terms of mentorship and being able to learn Lou, you know, it's. It's the most, the, the most special mentor that I've ever had by far.

[Keith Yandle]

You've mentioned the Sue a lot, and reading about you a little bit, I had no idea you were the stick boy. I think your grandfather coached the team, so it was kind of like a fabric of who you are. And then you become the GM you mentioned. And all of a sudden, when you were really young, your name, you know, it. It started appearing a lot more and like this kid that's coming up in the ranks, he's young and a lot of that was analytics. And I think, you know, you were one of the first guys, at least maybe for, for guys like us, that had heard about analytics and where the game was going. And I also, I was reading you were the youngest certified agent with the NHLPA at one point. Point. So where did analytics kind of first come onto your radar and, and become something that you would, you know, look to, to kind of implement moving forward and what you do.

[Kyle Dubas]

Yeah, it's not my background at all. The b. The, the way that I grew up was in scouting and player development and then I think just being with a smaller market, smaller revenue team in the sue, it was, you know, we, we weren't going to be able to compete in terms of, you know, geography and locations or players, unless they're from the sewer from Northern Ontario wanting to come there.

[David Carl]

So.

[Kyle Dubas]

And we weren't going to be able to match the scouting and, and scouting budgets and such of some of the other teams in the league. It just, it's just the way it is.

[Biz Nasty]

Right?

[Kyle Dubas]

So it was. We had to start to find our edge. And, and for me, you know, I, I had to stop playing when I was 14. So it was, I didn't have the playing background that I could lean on and I was fortunate to have like the scouting and development side, but just needed to give myself more edges. I didn't have, you know, that I couldn't lean back on my playing experience. So it was trying to find different ways to just improve our decision making. I'd always had an interest in, you know, my grandfather. We, you know, we would. He was a huge base, but coached hockey, but he loved baseball. So you start to follow that and you see that and you say, okay, how can some of this stuff maybe be applied to hockey? And so then, you know, as the 2010, 11, there was, you know, even a little bit prior to that, there's going to be more and more stuff pop up about, you know, different things that you could track or measure that could maybe better predict a player's future performance or team's future performance. And, you know, you start to start to follow that a little bit and incorporate it into your decision making a little bit. It really helped us in the sue and just our drafting, you know, trades and, and help to, you know, help to separate us that way. And it really just became a. Something that, that stuck. But it's, it's a, it's a, it's a key part of what we do because I think it provides a lot of value, but it's, it's really not my, my actual background, but it's, it's a, it's hugely important for us just in terms of trying to break down players and predict, you know, help them as well, like in areas that they lack. I think it's become way better lately just in terms of the quality of information that you get. And it's really just trying to help players in areas maybe that they're weak or, or that they've been undervalued elsewhere and just help your decision making, help your program as much as you can.

[Keith Yandle]

So when you talk about analytics, like a guy like Anthony Mantos, 32 goals, it was a one year deal at two and a half or, or a trade for Chinikov. Are, are, are those guys where you're seeing underlying numbers like there's more there or is that more just you're watching their play and it's, it's not necessarily analytical. The Mantle one's crazy because we, we talked last week about Muse calling him in the summer and saying you're going to score 30 this year. So obviously you guys as a group saw something and, and he's Just lived

[Kyle Dubas]

up to it the way that we like. I think it's most successful is that if you bring a guy in and the analytics department really likes him, but, you know, the guys have reputations or the coaching staff doesn't like them or the scouts don't like them, it creates sort of a polarizing view internally. So what we've tried to do is over time is to try to find, you know, different players that are. That are, you know, either strong or poor on the scouting side or the data side and then bring it all together into. Into one and then try to identify the players that are strong in both. And then. And then go to Dan and the staff and say, here's. Here's what collectively we see as the player strengths. Here's what are going to come up as the weaknesses and that we can work on and help with. And, and Dan especially, like whether it was acquiring Anthony. Anthony, he had Todd Nelson as a coach before when he was coming up in Detroit system. So Nelly knew. Knew Anthony and what he was about. And then it was, you know, he's coming off of the torn acl and we just thought we had a great opportunity for him. We obviously dug in on the personnel side and he's always been someone that's been strong analytically. That's always been the tale with Anthony. And then this year, I think he shared that with Dan, had kind of said to him, and it was a path for how we could get him to be as successful as possible. And our hope is that guys like he, Chinikov, we talked about Ryan Shea already and others like that, other guys throughout the league see that. And just then we become a place where players when, when they. When they need that opportunity to find themselves, they want to come and play. It's for Penguins and to play with Sid and Eric Carl from Gino, Chris Latang, but that there's going to be a plan for them to. To really get, you know, the most out of themselves, especially when they're in those. Those situations.

[Ryan Whitney]

How accurate are analytics compared to, let's say baseball? Because it's. Baseball, like so stagnant. It's like offense versus defense. And it seems like there's a lot of variables in hockey that come into play. And also, like, what would you label as maybe the. Like the. The best, like two or three analytic things that you can actually value a player on because there's probably a lot out there that smoke and mirrors and do they vary for the position. Whereas like one would be way more important for a forward compared to a defenseman. So what are the names of the ones that you take the most serious? And last. I know we're getting deep into the questions here. It's like fucking Inception. Are these being taken by like robots, essentially the analytics or these human humans that are saying, okay, I saw him make that play, Check it.

[Kyle Dubas]

So the, the answer to the baseball question, I think baseball is, is. Is still like probably a decade ahead just because of how much they've added to it.

[Ryan Whitney]

Right.

[Kyle Dubas]

And you guys, like, see like, they're able now like even to be able to measure to the, like a tenth of an inch on whether the ball's inside the strike, outside the strike zone, the exact spin on the ball, every

[Keith Yandle]

single pitch, whatever pitch. They're like slider, fastball, it's everything.

[Kyle Dubas]

Yeah, like the, the reaction time down to the split second of how quick an outfielder responds. Like it. Just because it starts from the same spot and ends in the same spot. Well, it doesn't end in the same because the, the every sequence begins and it begins the same way. And you're able to caption capture everything. It's like you're just able to do so much more. And then you see if you. Behind the scenes and the player development stuff with them, what they're able to do in terms of like motion capture and all the stuff they put on players. It's like the. You guys would have all done it in your careers. The EA Sports thing. Yeah, you get the, the whole bodysuit on. And they do that for developmental reasons. It's. It's crazy in, in hockey, I think what we're really, you know, trying to measure and I think it's become a lot better. Like when it, like whatever it was 15 years ago was, you know, shot attempts or Corsi and you know, or like. But what you really want to get into is, is a guy able to make plays and produce offense and is he able to make stops and have a strong impact defensively? And then it's, you know, what goes into all those things. And a lot of that comes from players and coaches. And that's how you're taking different things. And as they've been able to provide us with more in terms of the player tracking, the puck tracking information where everybody is what we still lack and, and you guys would like, would all relate with this so well is it doesn't capture the player stick. So there's stick detail. Do they make disruptions on the puck? Do they make. Are they able to make stops? Are they able to win Pucks when they're in puck battles, forecheck, you know, measuring the, the ability of someone to win, win a, like get in on the four check, win it. Do they take good routes?

[Keith Yandle]

Do they.

[Kyle Dubas]

Are they actually good at it or not? Are they just really fast and skate and get there and hit people, but they never come up with the puck. It's trying to find everything we can that can measure guys that are able to, to impact game offensively and defensively. And so now it's getting better in terms of the expect. I think the internal modeling of the expected goals for and against are getting stronger because you're able to add with the, with the tracking stuff into it. But then it's continuing to measure and get feedback from the players, feedback from the coaches about everything that matters and try to take all those little elements of the game that you guys know from playing for, you know, decades and decades and try to see can we measure it and does it really matter? And so that's really what we've tried to do. And then we'll try to then. And now you can tie it all back to the tape so you can actually see it. And so it's not just this. These are the numbers. It's. These are the numbers, but here's the player actually doing it and so you can study it, you know, deeper. And so to me it's taken, it's gone leaps and bounds the last number of years. And. But it's, it's, it's, it's when it all comes together where the coaching staff, the player personnel department, the player development department, and you can actually look at it and see it through, through film and tape or, or then you're looking for it when you're out scouting. And that, that to me is the, is the key step when you can bring all of it together.

[Biz Nasty]

The fact that you were able to retain that question just speaks volumes. I was testing of you as a person. I was testing them, but for, for you. And I remember I had Dale Town.

[Ryan Whitney]

That was a great question. Was that not a good question?

[Keith Yandle]

Meeting he had with Shanny when he got hired in Toronto.

[Kyle Dubas]

Awesome question.

[Ryan Whitney]

Thanks, Kyle.

[Biz Nasty]

I was, I was just wondering like I had Dale Town as a gm. He just super intense. Like after every loss, he's pissed off, banging stuff. And then like the next day you'd see him at the golf course and he was the happiest guy in the world. So just kind of wondering what your vice away from the rink is. What makes.

[Ryan Whitney]

I've seen some of the Clips in the press block. You could chuck a water.

[Biz Nasty]

You don't want to be a water bottle around him.

[Kyle Dubas]

I tried to cut back on that. My son sits with me for a lot of games. Now it's his. So I've. I can't be throwing stuff.

[Keith Yandle]

How old is he?

[Ryan Whitney]

He's on the Stevie bomb to get

[Biz Nasty]

Tommy John surgery off the Toronto.

[Ryan Whitney]

Yeah, he's taking an ste. Lou was probably doing that too, to stay so calm. Maybe the gummies.

[Kyle Dubas]

Lou.

[Ryan Whitney]

Lou.

[Kyle Dubas]

That's as calm as it gets in game. I'd be just stoic and. Yeah, I. I don't. I don't have that. I don't think I'll ever. I'll ever have that. But I. I don't know about any advice I could give on. On staying calm away. That my family helps because, you know, my son cares deeply about whether the team wins and loses. My daughter, she's the youngest and she's really the boss of our whole family. She doesn't. She doesn't care. She's more interested in paw patrol and painting and. And, you know, Bluey. So there's not a. Her scooter. There's not a whole lot of the. Doesn't. Doesn't phase her.

[Ryan Whitney]

You guys watch Louie. What's Louie?

[Kyle Dubas]

Louie, Bluey.

[Ryan Whitney]

Oh, what's Bluey?

[Kyle Dubas]

And it's an Australian dog family. Yeah, it's a.

[Ryan Whitney]

Okay.

[Keith Yandle]

Right up your alley biz. Yeah.

[Ryan Whitney]

Okay. Honestly, I. I mean, my. My exes took all my dogs, so maybe I'll get into it.

[Billy Jaffe]

Oh.

[Keith Yandle]

Oh, my.

[Kyle Dubas]

I think in this. I. I've seen Dale at games and after. After games, and I think, you know, you winning is nice. It gives you a bit of a reprieve from the. I think it's the. The impending kind of despair of losing. It's just. That sticks with you forever. It's hard to. It's hard to get by, but it's also kind of drives you and keeps you rolling through it and. And pushing to continue to get better. But, yeah, it's.

[Billy Jaffe]

It's.

[Kyle Dubas]

I mean, it sucks because you're up there.

[Ryan Whitney]

Once you.

[Kyle Dubas]

Once you go sit there and the game starts, you're. There's not a. There's nothing you can do.

[Billy Jaffe]

You're.

[Kyle Dubas]

You're watching your. Your, like, your players and staff try to get it done and, you know, and it's. Yeah, I. I think everyone responds to it differently.

[Biz Nasty]

Do you guys ever have to remind yourself because when you do watch the game from up top, how slow it is and how, like, you know, how open the ice is. Do you ever have to remind yourself, okay, yeah. That lane wasn't there for that long?

[Kyle Dubas]

You know that's almost every time you're talking to yourself the whole game, right? You think, you think the players can hear you or whatever it is, but always, all the time. It's. Yeah. I always say myself it's easy from up here. It's really like you can see everything, right? You're what, you're way up top. Everything is very clear.

[Ryan Whitney]

That's why when they put me in games, Kyle, I felt like I was in Saving Private Ryan. The over opening scene. I was like, what the is going on out here?

[Kyle Dubas]

It's easy to say up top. You don't have Tom Wilson, you know, like yesterday, the last two games against Washington, you know, the defense was going back to get the puck and you're like, oh, this is an easy play. You don't have Tom Wilson bearing down on you at full speed and trying to run you through the, run you through the wall. So it's, yeah, it's, it doesn't, it's not often forgotten. Enough talk.

[Ryan Whitney]

No, no.

[Keith Yandle]

We got a rollback. Last question. Use code checkouts on rollback.com 20off this week. This week. C H I C L E T S on R H O B A C K dot com. Check it out now.

[Ryan Whitney]

Offer that to Geno Malkin. Maybe you'll get a discount on next year's deal.

[Keith Yandle]

Well, kind of a. Two part question one, signing Sid again. Would even you say sid, I'll give you more than 8.7. And second part of the question, you were so young when Sid and OVI came into the league and we saw Sunday whether it's Obi's last game or not against Sid. What do you kind of remember about when they came into the league and what they accomplished and like first seeing them as rookies and witnessing like the greatness and not even having a clue we'd see over 21 years what we got to see.

[Ryan Whitney]

I, I, I asked the double questions around here with.

[Keith Yandle]

Sorry, sorry, I know triple.

[Kyle Dubas]

Yeah, Sid, I mean Pat Rasan and I, I'm sure Pat is warned him to, to do something other than 8.7 as well, but.

[David Carl]

Well, we'll take it.

[Kyle Dubas]

Yeah, well, sorry. We'll sort through all that. Actually it's a, in Sid's first year in the league. I have a friend of mine, he's like high up in scouting with Vancouver now. We went to university together and he's a, he was a huge Edmonton Oilers fan. So in Sid's first year after the draft, after the Lago, we drove from. We went. We. I went to Barack University in St. Catharines. So we drove from St. Catharines to Pittsburgh and back for the game. And it. Sean Horkoff had a hat trick in

[Keith Yandle]

the game and that was.

[Kyle Dubas]

Yes.

[Keith Yandle]

So Terry and snapped after that was it.

[Kyle Dubas]

Driving back after the game, we went right from St. Catherine to Pittsburgh and then right back and then took. I always like to. Not so much with our games, but when I go to another game and I'm driving after, I love to listen to the post game show. Living in St. Catherine's. The Buffalo post game show was always the, the best on wgr. It was unbelievable. The fans would call in. But on that, on that day there we were driving back and, and they have Terry's press conference live.

[Ryan Whitney]

God.

[Kyle Dubas]

And so it's every time I, it's. Yeah, I saw. I. And then every year, you know, the anniversary, they was like Jan, Early January in my mind. So it comes up every year as the, as the anniversary of it. So it replays it. And then every time I see Sean Horkoff, I think of that game. And then we have Will Hoff now so that we sat way up in the nosebleeds at the igloo and it was nothing.

[Keith Yandle]

I'll never forget it.

[Ryan Whitney]

What a barn too. What a barn.

[Biz Nasty]

I, I think, I know you guys did the great tribute for Flower this year, bringing him back, but I think every year you should bring back Terry and Wit. On the day that that happened.

[Ryan Whitney]

Sha Horof, would you throw me in an exhibition game?

[Kyle Dubas]

Yeah, we could do that. We. You could definitely play in the Nailers exhibition game next year.

[Keith Yandle]

He's got the key to the city.

[Ryan Whitney]

No, I, I An east team now. The Greensboro Gargoyles. I'll be going against. I'll be going against the Nailers.

[David Carl]

Nayers are, Nailers are looking good right now.

[Billy Jaffe]

They're.

[Kyle Dubas]

They.

[Ryan Whitney]

Oh, they are, yeah.

[Kyle Dubas]

They're locked into, you know, the sec. They, they won their division and so they're just gearing up for playoffs.

[Ryan Whitney]

Yeah, I love it. The wheels the best. Shout out Billy Higgins and Moondog. Another little fun fact, boys. My mom went to Brock University, so same alma mater as Kyle. We got a lot of connections here. My last question is, is Shanny, like, your relationship with him and working with him? We talked about Lou, like, what was it like working with him? Hand in hand. And you mentioned like, you know, not, not being a, a former player, I guess of that stature. So having to lean on other things, you know, I'm sure that that was a guy who helped in that situation.

[Kyle Dubas]

Shannon obviously gave me the opportunity in hiring me out of the Sioux in 2014. And then when. When. When he and Lou parted in. In 2018, you know, and the ability to become a GM in the league. So for that you're always, you're always grateful.

[Keith Yandle]

Right?

[Kyle Dubas]

And. And I think, you know, in, in looking back on it, obviously when we went in there, you know, the team had. They'd come out of the. The, you know, the lockout and in the Cap era and you know, they were contending team before then or in. In the mix before then right now. And you know, and then it. When we came in there they had been the playoffs, I think, you know, once in the, in the. Since then. And I just think he. He allowed the hockey staff to. To do their job, which I didn't really expect from a former player, you know, that, that, you know, he was going to keep all the other stuff away. And I think that was a massive help for us in looking back on it. And then obviously he had the experience, right, of going to Detroit and, and, and winning. So that was always. And that was a. Certainly a. A positive for. For us there. Right. So that's. It's just unfortunate.

[Ryan Whitney]

We couldn't.

[Kyle Dubas]

Couldn't get it done. That's really the only way I think about it now.

[Keith Yandle]

Well, Kyle, thank you so much, man.

[Ryan Whitney]

This is awesome, dude. Thank you.

[Biz Nasty]

Unreal.

[Keith Yandle]

We appreciate it. And you know, good luck.

[Ryan Whitney]

Never asked him about the Olympics and, and going through that whole process, which must have been awesome. But we'll have to get you on again and, and yeah, and congrats on all your success and, and if Philly

[Keith Yandle]

can get two more points in their last two games, we are so fired up for that Pennsylvania battle. That'll be something pretty. Pretty special for you and for all the fans in hockey just to see that battle go down again.

[Kyle Dubas]

So I saw earlier about a month ago, Biz jumped. He's. I think he's. He's on the Philly bandwagon.

[Keith Yandle]

Hey, Kyle. He's on 15 different teams.

[Biz Nasty]

Like you just don't want them on yours.

[Keith Yandle]

You don't want.

[Ryan Whitney]

It's like I'm on a dating show like the Bachelorette, but for, but for hockey teams. And, and last thing I want to say to the. Who created all those Crosby to the ABs rumors. Just enough's enough, Kyle. Obnoxious.

[Keith Yandle]

There's one man behind those.

[Ryan Whitney]

We got we got your back, Kyle.

[Kyle Dubas]

Appreciate it, guys.

[Keith Yandle]

Hey, good luck, man. Congrats on everything.

[Ryan Whitney]

Duba Stock.

[Kyle Dubas]

Thank you.

[Keith Yandle]

Oh, I should. Kyle, I should mention one more thing. I mean, Keith Biz sent us the DM for anyone listening. This is.

[Ryan Whitney]

I don't know if he's running his social account.

[Keith Yandle]

This is was Biz's DM to Kyle Dubis.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah. This is ridiculous.

[Keith Yandle]

Come on the podcast if you don't. I'm selling all my Duba stock. Kidding. I wouldn't sell. Just. I mean, where is the greatest block?

[Biz Nasty]

Him.

[Ryan Whitney]

He did. He did. After that.

[David Carl]

All right, we'll see you.

[Kyle Dubas]

See you.

[Ryan Whitney]

Love you. Thanks, Kyle.

[Keith Yandle]

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[Billy Jaffe]

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[David Carl]

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[Kyle Dubas]

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[Keith Yandle]

Thank you so much to Kyle Dubas from the Sue Greyhounds, the president and GM of the Pittsburgh Penguins. What a run it's been for that guy. Pittsburgh Philly is a must. We need that. I'm sorry Columbus, I'm sorry Washington. But that, that will be electric, guys. Jonathan Quick will play his last game in the National Hockey League tonight. What a fucking run. The greatest born American goalie of all time, a pizza master. Couple clicks for this guy gets the finish for his hometown favorite team, New York Rangers. That's going to be one that I think we need to sit down. That's a full, that's an in person sit down. Hopefully a couple beers, couple zas and chat about an amazing career from a guy who everyone loved too. So shout out Jonathan Quick. I hope he gets the win in his final game. The ABs have clinched the President's trophy. This is their fourth President's trophy. The leader is the wings with six. The ABs have only been around for 30 years. So kind of crazy. Like I, I, I didn't realize that this is already number four for them.

[Ryan Whitney]

So what if, how many does Washington have? Three or four?

[Keith Yandle]

Not sure. The second most is they're now tied with the Bruins and the Rangers with four.

[Biz Nasty]

So Washington, original six.

[Keith Yandle]

Washington. I know. Yeah, you're right.

[Ryan Whitney]

Washington's got three.

[Keith Yandle]

Do they have three?

[Ryan Whitney]

Yeah, I think they had three during

[Billy Jaffe]

Ole Miss and then they lost the first round I think in all of them.

[Biz Nasty]

Wow.

[Ryan Whitney]

And they didn't win their cup the year they won the President's Trophy. That's wild. They won.

[Biz Nasty]

Who was the last team to win the cup when they won the President's Trophy?

[Billy Jaffe]

The Blackhawks, I think in like 1213,

[Keith Yandle]

2009, 10, 15, 16 and 1617 for the caps. So the Caps went back to back and then got their cup after not winning the president's trophy. The President's Kofi curse. And did I think Chicago got it murdered, you say? I think it was the shortened season too.

[Billy Jaffe]

12, 13, I think.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah. So it's not even in a full 82. Game one for them.

[Biz Nasty]

Wow.

[Billy Jaffe]

The nugget.

[Ryan Whitney]

How about their coach on the ir?

[Keith Yandle]

Who?

[Ryan Whitney]

Bednar? He took a puck in the eye, broke his orbital bone. He's holy. Yeah, he didn't even travel with the team. Man, what a warrior.

[Keith Yandle]

Guy's an animal, dude. Guys. An animal.

[Billy Jaffe]

Hear who they're bringing in to replace him for the game?

[Keith Yandle]

You?

[Billy Jaffe]

No, David Carl. Because he doesn't want to leave Denver, so he's just going to coach that game.

[Ryan Whitney]

I thought they were bringing back their old goalie Patty Wa. After he got the knife out of his back.

[Keith Yandle]

Guys, I got to make a quick statement. A brutal Oilers loss to the to the LA Kings. One nothing. And honest to God, it might cost Boosh the Norris A1 nothing game. Panera just a complete Bacardi Boosh play at the blue line gives Panarin a breakaway controller. I was. I swear to God, like, that will be. People be like, oh, that was it. And they're trying to win the division. Boosha, horrible turnover. Panarin scores. They lose one nothing. But on the bright side, I don't want to win the division. I don't want to play Utah. I want the Ducks. The Ducks. That could. That could. That could be. I'm not gonna say sweet.

[Ryan Whitney]

Five games.

[Keith Yandle]

That's a five gamer. That's a five gamer. Leon's out there skate today with pod goals and he looked great. Trying to. Trying to get some more info from the stuff monster. He's kind of cold. He's icing me right now.

[Ryan Whitney]

You think. You think we could get a coucher of activation? I know Cooch missed the whole season, but like a. Like a Cooch activation where like all of a sudden leon gets like 50 points.

[Keith Yandle]

Oh, yeah, for sure. But I also think if they get the Ducks, we win the first two at home. And then it's like, oh, well, we don't need to put them in yet. You know, I don't know, maybe he's like, I'm good to go. I want to play from game one. But if he's 50. 50, you start game one without him, you. You win. All right. Try to get another without him. You win again. The Ducks are 1 and 5 in their last six. They're young. Cutter Gautier scares me he got his 40th the other day.

[Biz Nasty]

40th.

[Billy Jaffe]

But dude, the Kings might catch them. I, I, I watch out for that.

[Ryan Whitney]

Oh.

[Biz Nasty]

Oh, no.

[Keith Yandle]

Oh, no. We'll get the Kings.

[Billy Jaffe]

No, but that's, I don't know. They're gonna be tougher than the Ducks would.

[Ryan Whitney]

Take more wind out of your sails than I think the Ducks would. But hey, listen, the Ducks got good goaltending and actually they're, if you look at their back end, like they got some big guys back there. They got.

[Biz Nasty]

I'm taking the Duck.

[Ryan Whitney]

Truba. They got the Jackson lacombe. They got Carlson. Like, they got a pretty good.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, that's, yes, that's the worry. The Butcher. Because I think as bad as he feels after all these neon knee disgustingly dirty hits, he's bound to throw another one.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah.

[Ryan Whitney]

Yeah.

[Biz Nasty]

He's got the memory of Goldfish.

[Keith Yandle]

There is no defenseman on Utah that could maybe hit you with an elbow in the jaws. You're flying through the middle, Connor McDavid, and all of a sudden you're, you're out. So knock on wood there.

[Ryan Whitney]

But he might never be able to come to Canada again. But look out for.

[Keith Yandle]

And Verbeek got an extension. Multi year contract extension. Makes sense what they're doing there, what they're building. Very special. But give me the Ducks. That about wraps it up. There's a lot left this week. We'll be able to kind of break through everything. Friday, we'll be together. Thursday, boys. Recording together. We have a Thursday night show. So that's fun. Final thing, Rory. I don't know how I don't know how I didn't just kind of see this one coming. Maybe it's because I'm an idiot, but he got the one. He finally got the one. You would have thought like now looking back like, oh, obviously he's gonna get another one. One like now it's complete free reign. He almost kind of blew it again. Had another double on the front nine. A three putt double. It was crazy. But Rory. Rory McElroy wins the Masters. I was sick as a dog, falling in and out of sleep. I'd wake up, see a putt, I'd fall back, sleep very, you know, big time bummer of a master Sunday. But I do think Roy McElroy now has six majors. It took him, I think, 20, 25 majors to win four. Then he went 10 years without one and now he has two of the last five. I think he's going to get like 10.

[Ryan Whitney]

I'm really, yeah, he's he's my favorite golfer. He's my favorite.

[Biz Nasty]

John Daly was.

[Ryan Whitney]

I said that. No, I like John Daly, but I said this last time when they were trying to give him shit. I think he just won the Masters. And then they try to give him shit about the driver he was using and Scheffler was using, the same one. They, they go after McElroy so much, the media heads. He's an opinionated guy. They ask him questions and he gives their. His answers. And he's dealt with a lot of. Including the Ryder Cup. That's my guy, man. He's a dog. I'm a McElroy guy till the end. I put him on my Mount Rushmore Golf in two of the spots, two to four.

[Billy Jaffe]

Well, like every sport, you got seven favorite teams. But did you guys hear what he was doing the couple weeks before instead of playing in the tournaments?

[Keith Yandle]

No, I.

[Ryan Whitney]

This is what the golf fans, bro.

[Keith Yandle]

I can't believe he was catching grief for this.

[Ryan Whitney]

It's crazy.

[Biz Nasty]

Why. Wait, why was he catching grief?

[Ryan Whitney]

Because they're fucking all over him and that's why he's a goat.

[Biz Nasty]

So going to play.

[Billy Jaffe]

I don't think every player can do that, right? Only if you won, then you're a member.

[Keith Yandle]

No. So what's weird is you're not even. I think it's just. They just pick. If you win, you're a member. Like some guys who win become members. Some guys who. Like Patrick Reed. He won. No, I don't think he became a member. I. So for people who don't know, instead of playing, I think it's the, the, the Houston tournament, the Texas Open. There's a couple San Antonio tournaments leading up. He basically was like, those tournaments suck. So what I would do is I would drop my daughter off at school. I would hop on my jet, I'd fly to Augusta, I'd play it all day. I'd hop on my jet home, pick up my daughter and eat dinner at home. And people.

[Biz Nasty]

What's wrong with that?

[Keith Yandle]

Exactly. I think people brought up that at one point he said he felt bad about the carbons and flying private.

[Biz Nasty]

Oh, just, just.

[Keith Yandle]

If you, if somebody, if you're flying private. Shut up. Don't ever say that. Because you don't care. Nobody cares. You fly private. I'm not too worried about the goddamn

[Ryan Whitney]

environment because we got Leo DiCaprio fighting, fighting for, for the environment. Meanwhile, he's 10 out of 10 supermodels on PJs all day long.

[David Carl]

So, like, wait, so if he, if

[Biz Nasty]

he flew commercial to Augusta. People wouldn't have been mad. I don't know.

[Ryan Whitney]

No, I think they thinking that, oh, he backed out of these tournaments and he got. He went and got an advantage going to play Augusta to prepare. Buddy, they give this guy about the way he wipes his ass about everything. They ride him, and that's why he's my goat. You could have Tiger. You could have Tiger drive through a, like, rally, a school zone, driving over people like the mista mista lady from Happy Gilmore, and they'll make more of a ordeal about how he jumped on his jet to drive to Augusta. It's crazy.

[Biz Nasty]

Wait, I heard it was. Is it Nick Faldo, the old golfer? He won the match.

[Ryan Whitney]

Yeah.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah. Last guy to do it back. Oh, no. Tiger did it back to back.

[Biz Nasty]

He was saying that if he. If he wants to go play them at Augusta, he still needs to play with a member. Like, he can't just call and be like, hey, I'm Nick Feldo, I'm coming to play. You have to play with a member.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah, Yeah. I don't. I don't think that's the case for Rory. Maybe it is. I know Jimmy Dunn. Jimmy Dunn, a true legend in life. This guy. This guy, he was a part of a firm during 9 11, and he was going. He went and did a golf qualifier for the US Midam, and his whole firm passed away in. In the tragedy of 9 11. And what he's done with his life since is incredible. He's a member at Augusta. I think he's the president at Seoul, where Rory's dad's a member. Just an incredible human being. I don't know if Rory goes with him. I don't know if he's able to play alone. But anyone in the world who enjoys golf would be doing the exact same thing. I'm pretty sure that if you ask people who play golf, their dream day would to be take a private jet, play Augusta all day, and then go home. And these aren't even people that are trying to get ready to play the Masters. So for anyone giving him shit on that, you're a clown. You're a complete goon, because it's going to play Augusta on a private jet and then flying home to pick up your daughter at school.

[Ryan Whitney]

And he's also a comedian because then they asked him about why he didn't have Irish representation at the master's dinners because he said he wanted people to enjoy it. Like. Like this guy. He's a comedian.

[Biz Nasty]

Funny.

[Ryan Whitney]

I've lived in, in Cardiff, Wales. The food there is, everything comes with potato chips. Well, which they, which is French fries to them. So there's not a lot of options over there.

[Keith Yandle]

I mean we, we just saw dominoes. There was Domino's everywhere when we were in Northern Ireland, Keith, we had Domino's every night on a week long golf trip. I think the food in London's pretty good. Now granted that's not Ireland really good. But the complaints were from your guy, Marty Mushkeith. Like it's unfair, it's unfair that he gets to go play that, that golf course when the tournament's there nonstop beforehand. It's like, well, he won and he's welcome there and that's. And he has his own private jet, carbon emissions be damned. And he's gonna go and play the golf course and get ready. And then he won again. So pretty legendary. I don't think he's done winning green jackets. The Masters though. The Masters is just something special, man. Just clicking that on and getting to see it. Getting to be there one time and now I feel like I know the holes. Truly legendary stuff. Truly legendary stuff. I felt bad for Justin Rose. That guy, he would have been the second oldest winner ever. Biz. He's lost in two playoffs.

[Ryan Whitney]

So you know what? There's another guy. I love the class he shows after he doesn't win. He, he, he wrote to all he signs off on Twitter. I'll go find it like, like Team Rose. And I think it just hashtag team. And then it's the Rose emoji, which is kind of sick.

[Keith Yandle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Whitney]

And he goes, I think he goes something like, here, I'll get it. Justin Rose.

[Keith Yandle]

Have you seen his like van that travels with him everywhere? It's a spa.

[Biz Nasty]

No, he better not.

[Keith Yandle]

I've never thought of someone quicker than you. When I saw this, I'm talking cold tub, infrared sauna, hydro chamber, fucking, you name it. He's got it on this van Biz, what's.

[Ryan Whitney]

It was like the Thai Toyota or something.

[Keith Yandle]

There's two Thai women that sit in the back till his round's done. They walk.

[Biz Nasty]

When he lands at a tournament biz, the van is there ready for him and he just takes care of himself.

[Keith Yandle]

You'll be doing this at intermission of all playoffs, the TNT games.

[Ryan Whitney]

It's right here he wrote, I'll just keep knocking on that door. See you next year, Augusta. Congratulations, McElroy. Going back to back. Thank you for all the support.

[Keith Yandle]

Team Rose, that's class.

[Ryan Whitney]

He's just, I, I, I Wanted him to win it bad yesterday because he kept charging on the back and he kind of collapsed.

[Keith Yandle]

He had it at one point. I think he was in the lead alone.

[Ryan Whitney]

Has he ever, like, he won the

[Keith Yandle]

US Open one time.

[Ryan Whitney]

Yeah, I know he's got a major, but does. Has he ever had any controversy? Anybody. Anybody say anything negative about him? Or is he just like the ultimate best guy ever?

[Biz Nasty]

I just watched he did a YouTube golf video. I forget with which creators, but he. He seemed like the absolute man.

[Ryan Whitney]

Yeah. Maybe we'll get him on a bag.

[Keith Yandle]

Looks pretty freaking good for 45 years old, too.

[Biz Nasty]

Incredible. The hairline hasn't moved in a tie van walking around with you girls.

[Ryan Whitney]

Maybe you're right. That's what he won.

[Billy Jaffe]

I think he won the Olympics.

[Keith Yandle]

Olympics, yeah. He won a gold medal, too.

[Ryan Whitney]

That's why I thought.

[Biz Nasty]

And Ryder cops.

[Keith Yandle]

He's won a lot. And he's like. I think he's been the guy in Ryder.

[Biz Nasty]

Yeah, he's a dog.

[Keith Yandle]

The guy who buried in the Miracle at Medina when they came back and beat the U.S. he was playing Phil and he buried like a 50 footer on the 17th hole. And that's when I started hating Phil. Phil was clapping for him. We're in the middle of the biggest collapse in golf history, and Phil's clapping for him. Yeah.

[Billy Jaffe]

Yeah.

[Keith Yandle]

Come to live in 10 years. Yeah. Great job, Justin. It was sickening. And then we lost that one.

[Biz Nasty]

He's giving him his roses.

[Keith Yandle]

He was giving him his roses. So not our best masters breakdown, boys. I'm wounded. I'm wounded.

[Ryan Whitney]

Oh, that was a long pod. We gave him everything we had.

[Keith Yandle]

Thank you, buddy. Yeah.

[Billy Jaffe]

Thank you, guys.

[Keith Yandle]

Biz who. What's. What's your big game tonight? Toronto. Who?

[Ryan Whitney]

Toronto. Dallas.

[Keith Yandle]

Okay, so you're gonna get to see Dallas up close.

[Ryan Whitney]

I'm gonna see him in person.

[Keith Yandle]

Hey, they could have had. They should have had Rontan. They had Rontanen.

[Ryan Whitney]

But Mitch Martin, Tyler Segan, I saw him in the hallway today. Saw Max Domi, dabbed him up, Said, great job again. Go this you warrior.

[Keith Yandle]

Go.

[Biz Nasty]

Let's go, boys.

[Keith Yandle]

All right, boys. Great day.

[Ryan Whitney]

I love you guys.

[Keith Yandle]

Great pop murder.

[David Carl]

Love you. Love all you guys.

[Biz Nasty]

Love you boys.

[Keith Yandle]

Heart breaking, but it's taking time.

[Ryan Whitney]

I don't know.

[David Carl]

It don't matter. It's going to happen.

[Kyle Dubas]

It's going to happen again.