Can These Doomed CFB Coaches Turn It Around?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Split Zone Duo – “Can These Doomed CFB Coaches Turn It Around?”

Hosts: Richard Johnson, Alex Kirshner, and Stephen Godfrey
Date: June 23, 2026
Episode Theme:
This episode takes a hard look at the 2026 college football landscape, focusing on head coaches who are under immense pressure or already sitting on the “hot seat.” The hosts debate whether there’s hope for these embattled leaders or whether their programs are truly doomed, using a mix of informed analysis, inside jokes, and trademark irreverence.

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1. Episode Overview

• The main theme centers on college football coaches entering the 2026 season with their jobs very much in jeopardy. The hosts consider which situations are truly hopeless and which might surprise.
• There’s also a lively digression into college basketball, specifically Michigan’s coaching drama—showcasing the pervasive instability across certain elite athletic departments.

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2. Key Discussion Points & Insights

A. Michigan’s Basketball and Football Turmoil

• Michigan basketball coach leaves for the NBA (Dallas Mavericks), sparking discussion about the difficulties of coaching in college hoops versus football.
  • Godfrey: “Being a college basketball coach does just kind of seem like it sucks...In football, if you take your eye off the ball for a second and you lose a guy in the portal, whatever, you got 60 more of them. But in basketball, it can all fall apart pretty quick.” (00:54)
• Michigan’s recent pattern of winning but losing coaches is examined; big brand pressure and high expectations create constant churn.

B. “The It’s Always Something School” Debate

• Discussion on which college sports programs are most associated with perpetual drama.
  • Richard: “I have always regarded Tennessee as the leaders and best in this specific category. But Michigan is right there.” (02:48)
  • Alex: Michigan claims elite academic and cultural standards, but behaves like any big sports-centric school: “They do all the things a big college sports brand does in the bad way of, like, behavior, and then they look you in the eye and tell you, no…” (03:15)
  • Godfrey: Michigan fans argue smartly, making critics second-guess themselves: “They’re... pretty well lawyered up and generally smart...when you’re in conflict...can put you in the spin zone…” (04:22)
• Tennessee, Michigan, and Florida State each have unique types of instability—Tennessee’s impatience, Michigan’s existential crises, and Florida State’s financial/future uncertainty.
  • “I think Michigan is always sort of battling an existential crisis...” (Alex, 07:02)
  • “Florida State displays...angst...the pain of, oh, God, we want to fire Norvell...but we can’t afford this.” (Alex, 07:47)

C. Launching into the Coaches’ Hot Seat List

• The hosts shift gears and officially introduce the coaches under scrutiny. Notably:
  • Mike Norvell (Florida State), Dave Doran (NC State), Mike Locksley (Maryland), Luke Fickell (Wisconsin), Dave Aranda (Baylor), Pat Narduzzi (Pitt), Shane Beamer (South Carolina), Scott Satterfield (Cincinnati), Dabo Swinney (Clemson), Deion Sanders (Colorado), and – for fun – “Bill Belichick at North Carolina.”
  • “Those are pretty obvious ‘could get fired if things don’t go well’ situations.” (Stephen, 11:15)

Segment Timestamp: [11:20]

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D. Deep Dive: Mike Norvell & Florida State

• Main question: Can Norvell generate enough positive momentum to save his job?
• Optimism is tempered:
  • Richard highlights the offense’s potential: “You’re betting that the playmakers they have at the skill positions are enough to overcome Ashton Daniels’s Ashton Daniels-ness and that the portal-again offensive line can hold up.” (12:28)
  • Defense expected to be “not awful.”
• Florida State is viewed as less doomed than Baylor or Wisconsin, but the standard for “success” is especially unclear given fan and administrative negativity.
• Key friction: What does Norvell have to accomplish to quell unrest?
  • Stephen: “Are they going to improve enough to quell their own discord?” (14:02)
  • Richard: “You start with such an avalanche of negativity...you have to honestly go leaps and bounds above to even get to...normal discourse.” (14:32)

Segment Timestamp: [12:20–15:02]

The Binary Line for Norvell:

• “He’s probably going to have to win like eight or nine games.” (Richard, 16:27)
• Alex: “Eight’s weird, man. If you say eight, I’m going to say which eight.” (16:33)
• Richard: “If he’s lost to SMU, Alabama, and Miami, he’s not going to make the Halloween.” (17:13)
• Stephen: “If this is going badly, he won’t be coaching that [Florida rivalry] game if things have gone pretty poorly.” (17:20)

The Quarterback Conundrum in Tallahassee:

• Harsh comparison to Auburn’s failed QB situations: “Does this not feel a little similar when...he returns, and their depth chart is literal Auburn quarterback Ashton Daniels?” (Stephen, 18:51)
• “They’re saying good things about the JUCO kid coming in, by the way, but he’s not a chemist yet.” (Richard, 19:07)

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E. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Juco kid is impressing.” (Alex, 19:33) – Satirical summary of offseason optimism.
• “I know you’re looking for a coach...his name is...Brent Langdon, better known as Buzz Williams, could be yours.” (Stephen, 08:12–08:54) – Joking about Michigan’s coaching carousel.
• “This has been a free preview of a subscriber episode...” (Stephen, 19:36) – Signaling the end and transition to subscriber content.

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3. Important Segment Timestamps

• Michigan Basketball Coaching Drama: 00:16–04:20
• Perpetual Drama Programs (“It’s Always Something”): 04:20–09:08
• Introducing the Hot Seat Coaches List: 10:20–11:47
• Florida State/Mike Norvell Deep Dive: 12:28–18:20
• FSU’s Quarterback Situation and Parallels to Auburn: 18:30–19:13

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4. Overall Tone & Flow

• Conversational, irreverent, analytical, and rooted in deep college football expertise.
• Frequent sparring, shared cynicism, and in-jokes (“He’s not a chemist yet”).
• Balances deep dives with broader/structural critiques of program behavior and fan dynamics.

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5. Summary Takeaways

• Michigan and other “blue bloods” experience constant turnover and institutional inefficiency, raising the bar for what stability means in modern college athletics.
• Not all "hot seat" situations are created equal. For some (FSU/Norvell), merely being decent isn’t enough; the confluence of negativity and high expectations may demand an unlikely breakthrough.
• Hot seat discussions blend performance assessments with humor and psychological profiling of schools, coaches, and fans.
• This episode delivers a primer for the coming season’s dramas and provides context for looming coaching crises across the sport.

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“You start with such an avalanche of negativity...you have to honestly go leaps and bounds above to even get to...normal discourse.”
—Richard Johnson, [14:32]

Transcript

[Alex Kirchner]

We're coming and we ain't backing down.

[Richard Johnson]

We don't need a bunch of cats in here looking in the mirror.

[Alex Kirchner]

Everybody just do your job.

[Richard Johnson]

You understand that? Hey, will you shut up? I'm bitterly disappointed with the officiating today. Guys being dudes and they run through our like through a tin horn, man.

[Stephen Godfrey]

Thank you, Lee. Thank you to our Split Zone duo listeners. I'm Alex Kirchner, joined by my co host Richard Johnson, and our co host emeritus and co founder, Stephen Godfrey. Steven, do you know where your Michigan basketball coach is this morning?

[Alex Kirchner]

Yeah, he's going to be the Mavs head coach. That right? I saw this. This earlier this morning on a like a gym tv.

[Richard Johnson]

He said, let me get some of that Cooper flag.

[Alex Kirchner]

And he FAU legend.

[Stephen Godfrey]

Yeah.

[Richard Johnson]

And it sounds like he is doing the blame it on the current state of college sports on the way out.

[Stephen Godfrey]

But you know what?

[Alex Kirchner]

Oh, of course. I love that song.

[Stephen Godfrey]

With basketball coaches when they do this, I look at them and I just say, yeah, that's fine. With college football coaches, I'm always a little bit more skeptical. Not that there aren't real lifestyle differences between the two, but being a college basketball coach does just kind of seem like it sucks. I mean, relatively speaking, you get paid a lot of money to coach a basketball team, it's fine. But in football, if you take your eye off the ball for a second and you lose a guy in the portal, whatever, you got 60 more of them. But in basketball, it can all fall apart pretty quick. I remember reading a story in the Athletic right after they won the national championship about how he was just not relieved at all and not in the performative Nick Saban way. Like, oh, I got to recruit. I'm losing recruiting time by being in the national championship game. But like, actually he just sounded exhausted by having to do the job. And I think there's a basketball angle to that.

[Richard Johnson]

I think it would be. And look, it's. I imagine there will be some quick resolution to this, but it is Monday before the NBA draft and it seems like Giannis is about to get traded, like, imminently. And so I do wonder if the Mavs could pull like an insane one, two punch and pull Dusty May and Giannis within like 24 hours of each other. This is what's under a basketball hour.

[Alex Kirchner]

Yeah. Say, wow. All right. You guys have really opened up the format. CJ McCollum resigned yesterday for one year. Noted. Noted Knicks killer.

[Richard Johnson]

I. I also will say, if Billy Donovan ends up the head coach of Michigan, I will be Inconsolable. That's one that just. That I can't have that. Can't have.

[Stephen Godfrey]

Can't abide it.

[Richard Johnson]

No, no.

[Stephen Godfrey]

It does feel like this keeps happening to Michigan, too. This win the national championship, billionaire wants your coach, so you go and lose them. It's kind of an interesting, Interesting thing going on.

[Alex Kirchner]

You mean answering to that fan base doesn't inspire longevity?

[Richard Johnson]

Let me ask you this. I. I have previously held this title or given this title to Tennessee, but it is my straw poll ranking of the. It's always something with XYZ School. I have always regarded Tennessee as the leaders and best in this specific. This specific category. But Michigan is right there. Yeah, right there behind them.

[Alex Kirchner]

Yeah, I know I've. I've kind of created multiple bits, killed multiple bits, like run them into the ground, etc. But yeah, it is not a affable fan base. And I know you might ask, like, oh, well, well, what is? I think they're just more there. It's huge. You have a massive alumni base. Massive sidewalk alumni base. I think that it's. It's a big brand, and so that. That is part of it. They've had a lot of turmoil behind the scenes at very, like, at various levels the last couple years. Yeah, no, I mean, this. It. They should be loud and annoying just based off of their size. It's just weird that. I think what makes Michigan's fan base different is that they do all the things a big college sports brand does in the bad way of, like, behavior, and then they look you in the eye and tell you, no, we're not doing that, because we are somehow also Harvard or Yale. And that's. That's always been my rub where I was like, no, no, no, no. I'm gonna drag you back into the dirt where you belong, because that's how you act, like you're no different than Alabama.

[Stephen Godfrey]

I have a slightly modified read on this now. I was thinking about this when I was out of office last week and all the Texas Tech stuff was going down, and it was like, Texas Tech fans versus everyone else in college sports kind of in the same way that it was Michigan fans versus everyone in college sports during the sign thing a couple years ago. Not to relitigate. Don't worry. And I realized that what it is with Michigan fans is that when you are in conflict with them, they're unfortunately a pretty well lawyered up and generally smart fan base. And I remember thinking, like, wait, am I the bad guy? Like, am I ridiculous for, like, not believing everything Sharon Moore and Jim Harbaugh said during this, like, wow, like, I must be making a huge mistake here because it's well argued. Whereas when other well argued has never

[Alex Kirchner]

correlated to correct or intelligent.

[Stephen Godfrey]

It's well, intelligent.

[Alex Kirchner]

Yeah.

[Stephen Godfrey]

Whereas, like when Texas Tech fans are doing the whole, like, well, they haven't even said they're going to play them. They haven't done anything. It's kind of like, guys, respect my intelligence a little bit more. Whereas Michigan fans can kind of, when you're in conflict, can kind of put you in the spin zone in a way that I think is.

[Richard Johnson]

That's ten to. That's three.

[Alex Kirchner]

Yeah. That's you problem, dog. Put your head down. Put your head down. Follow your guard. Hit your fucking mark.

[Richard Johnson]

Exactly.

[Alex Kirchner]

Run the ball on them.

[Richard Johnson]

As a veteran of.

[Stephen Godfrey]

Yes.

[Richard Johnson]

As a veteran of the Harbaugh wars in the way that I was. Yeah. I beg to differ. But yeah, Michigan. I do think Michigan has currently unseated Tennessee in my current straw poll of. It's always something. Nebraska was there for a little bit. Florida State also had a moment in time. But I will say with Michigan, it's the entire athletic department.

[Alex Kirchner]

No, definitely up there. Yeah.

[Richard Johnson]

Yes, yes, Florida State. It was always something, but it was pretty much football specific.

[Alex Kirchner]

I would challenge you to put a little bit more rubric to this because. And it's all. This is sort of highly subjective based on the individual and their experiences in sports media. I don't know if I would have Michigan. Michigan would be my top five. I don't think it would be at the very top for me. Me, though, I'm. I really have to think about this. Well, Florida State, you see, that's the thing is like, it's just like any other ranking. Like right now, man, it feels like the world's ending twice a month in Tallahassee. But that's not always the case. You know, some of the Jimbo years were. I would dare I say boring.

[Richard Johnson]

And then some of them weren't.

[Alex Kirchner]

Yeah.

[Richard Johnson]

Very much weren't.

[Alex Kirchner]

Yeah. Tennessee is funny because I just think that their problem is just rooted in. In impatience. I just had a conversation with someone earlier this morning who's a Tennessee graduate, and he was talking about how. And he's like, you know, I dip out of the boards this time of year, which is good. That's good mental health advice for everybody, he said. But, you know, every time I, I check, it's like, hypo's gotta go. Gotta, like, gotta go to the playoff or get fired this year. And I'm like, y' all know, and. And even this. This Tennessee fan that I was talking to, he pointed this. I was like, we're either gonna have a freshman or a redshirt freshman, a quarterback. And they're. They're putting a playoff or bus standard on a guy who has done nothing but bring consistency and success to the program. So I think histrionic is like, one. I think Michigan's different because Michigan is always sort of battling an existential crisis, because they really think they can be two things at once. I think Tennessee is just woefully impatient. And then I think Florida State has bad. Like, Florida State displays. Like, I've had friends who have gone through financial issues before, and that's Florida State. Like, all of the angst, Richard, about Florida State you deal with is like that pain of, oh, God, we want to fire Norvell. We want to do the crazy Texas A and M buyout, right? But we can't afford this, and he sucks. And we are also worried about where we're going to be in 10 years if the ACC doesn't exist or if the big two separate. Like, it's all financially based.

[Richard Johnson]

Speak of the devil on Mike Norvale.

[Stephen Godfrey]

Alex. Yeah, let's. Let's come to him. In fact, we'll come to him in one second when I close this loop by just saying Michigan, I know you're looking for a coach. I've got one with Big Ten and SEC experience. His name. Brett. No. Brent Langdon, better known as Buzz Williams, head coach at the University of Maryland. Could be yours. Michigan.

[Richard Johnson]

Wait, sorry, is that a. Is that a joke? I'm missing that? Go over my.

[Stephen Godfrey]

Buzz Williams has been Maryland's basketball coach for the last year.

[Richard Johnson]

No, not that. Who is Brett Langdon?

[Stephen Godfrey]

His full name is Brent. It's Brent Langdon Williams. I didn't know what Buzz's real name was first, but let's. It's NE Michigan fans.

[Richard Johnson]

That's Buzz Williams.

[Alex Kirchner]

Government.

[Stephen Godfrey]

Michigan fans. Buzz Williams could be available if you want him stick it to a Big Ten opponent. Hire this guy away. He's very hot right now. Things are really on the upswing in College Park. He could be yours if you take him. But, yeah, Richard, you mentioned him.

[Richard Johnson]

Maryland went 12 and 21 last year.

[Stephen Godfrey]

Hey, man, it wasn't great. It wasn't great, but Michigan get it on the ground floor. You could get him for a cut rate that you probably won't be able to get them for if you wait beyond the next couple of days. Just saying. Richard, you alluded to it. We probably should talk about college football. We have tended to start a lot of our shows lately by talking about other sports for, like, 10 minutes. And I'm sure everyone loves that. I agree. I agree with you. I love it. It's preview to preview season. Steven. So what we're doing right now is beginning to look at the 2026 season and what we think is actually going to maybe happen on the field. I do like actual football.

[Richard Johnson]

Alex has been saying this, and, like, it's. At first I, like, wanted to push back, but in the way that I'm sure you can relate to as a dad, it's like, I'll pull this car around and we'll talk. Brendan Source. God damn it. Like, it's.

[Alex Kirchner]

Wait, are those my two choices? If you push me, early season preview before the fourth of July, which is the actual football.

[Richard Johnson]

Actual football.

[Alex Kirchner]

Or.

[Richard Johnson]

Or I will bring Congress up, so help me.

[Alex Kirchner]

Oh, God, no. No to both.

[Stephen Godfrey]

It's a Sorsby free show. It's a Congressional go free show. But what we are going to talk about, what we are going to talk about are a group of coaches. It's like maybe around 10 who enter this season on either an obvious hot seat or in that zone where we may not know yet exactly how hot the seat is, but the fan base is clearly exhausted by you and or things just aren't going very well. There's a couple guys in that group as well. Y' all kind of know the difference between those two statuses. And the objective here is to see if we can find some hope in these programs this year. And if we can't, if we just determine that all 10 or so of these are doomed, then, well, that'll be what it is. And we'll have all year to find out if we were right or not. So here's. Here's the list off the jump. Mike Norvell at Florida State, Dave Doran at NC State, Mike Loxley at Maryland, Luke Fickle at Wisconsin, Dave Aranda at Baylor. Those are pretty obvious. Could get fired if things don't go well situations. I don't think anyone would dispute that. We've also got in the general malaise division.

[Richard Johnson]

Keep it in the clear hot. Keep it in the clear hot.

[Stephen Godfrey]

All right, we'll come to the rest of them later.

[Alex Kirchner]

So Dave Doran. Dave Doran is in the hot seat, but there's a malaise category. And he's like, I feel like, yeah,

[Stephen Godfrey]

I probably should have put Doran in that category.

[Alex Kirchner]

You look malaise up in the dictionary and it says, NC State football.

[Stephen Godfrey]

This is, this is a fair point. Doran could have maybe dropped in the other category, but Richard, that's why I was going to name them all up front, so we could quibble. Pat Narduzzi at Pitt is in that category. Shane Beamer at South Carolina, Scott Satterfield at Cincinnati, Dabo Sweeney at Clemson, and then there's two guys who I didn't really know what to do with, but I figured we should talk about them, especially because, you know, we put these video podcasts on YouTube now, too, and we know how the YouTube audience can be. Deion Sanders at Colorado and Bill Belichick in North Carolina never heard. So those are a lot of, a lot of coaches where. Yeah, pandering, exactly. Those are a lot of coaches where things do not generally seem to be going well and we're trying to find some hope. Richard, do you think you could find any for me in Tallahassee, Florida?

[Richard Johnson]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think that you're betting that the offense gets back to where it's supposed to be with Mike Norvell calling plays. You're, you're betting that the playmakers they have at wide receiver, namely Micah Danzy and Deuce Robinson, are enough. And quatreven wise now you're betting the playmakers they have at the skill positions are enough to overcome Ashton Daniels is Ashton Daniels ness and that the portal again, offensive line can hold up. I think, I don't know if fine on defense is the way to say it. Maybe not awful on defense is probably what I can see there. I don't think if I had to power rank these as far as, as far as hopeless, I actually don't think Florida State, I don't think Florida State's as hopeless as Baylor nor Wisconsin then Baylor or Wisconsin because I think I'm more positive on Maryland than I am on probably Florida State out of these four or five. And we're, if we're chucking Dave Doran into the Malays category, that's.

[Alex Kirchner]

So you think that this is. It sounds like more of a comparative argument than it has to do with the standard at Florida State. So like when I start after the fourth and I start like doing my preview reading and the phone calls and all that stuff where I guess the way I would approach Florida State is are they going to have like, they're gonna, they're gonna be more talented than a lot of those teams that you mentioned, because that's, it's an apples and oranges program comparison. But are they going to improve Enough to quell their own discord. Yeah. Like, what are.

[Richard Johnson]

Like, what's the number? Like, what do they have to do? It's. It's sort of like, I don't know. Billy Napier's not. Billy Napier is a bad comp. But it's just the quickest one that comes to my mind. Like, you. You start with such an avalanche of negativity justifiably. I'm not saying Anne earned it, but you start with such a avalanche of negativity that you have to honestly go leaps and bounds above to even get to, like, the Mendoza Line of, like, normal discourse, basically.

[Alex Kirchner]

We can't say Mendoza Line anymore. It'll have. That's funny. I just thought about that.

[Stephen Godfrey]

You know, he played for the Pirates, by the way, the Mendoza of the Mendoza Line, who could never hit above.200. Just saying we're global.

[Alex Kirchner]

I mean, that feels. That feels accurate. Y' all want to trade for skiings yet? Can do. You want some skiing? You want some prospects yet?

[Stephen Godfrey]

Give it. Give it two years. Give it to your.

[Alex Kirchner]

I'm sure.

[Richard Johnson]

So the other thing is they're also going to go out and get beat by SMU and. Or Alabama by the end of September, which is an issue.

[Alex Kirchner]

Yeah. So if I'm comparing situations, what I expect come roster assessment time is that, yes, this is a more talented team than Baylor. Yes, this is a more talented team than you said. Wisconsin or NC State, whatever. Anybody that Alex is going to offer up. I just want to know what the standard for acceptance is. This is a year to write the ship. What does that even mean anymore? Do you. Do you have to win nine? Do you have to have a puncher's chance at the conference championship? Like, do we feel like this is an organized enough staff to produce that?

[Richard Johnson]

This feels very. Their. Their season to me, feels very binary. Like, he. You don't get.

[Alex Kirchner]

But what's the bind. But what's the binary. What's the.

[Stephen Godfrey]

What's the line? Is it.

[Richard Johnson]

I mean, he probably got. He's probably going to have to win like, eight or nine games.

[Stephen Godfrey]

Yeah.

[Richard Johnson]

Like, you got to win a lot of games.

[Alex Kirchner]

Eight's weird, man. If you say eight, I'm going to say which eight.

[Richard Johnson]

If you do eight, I'll just. I'll just read off the losses. You lose to smu, Alabama, Virginia and Miami. That's four. Which means. Yeah. Which means you've beaten Louisville, Clemson, Florida.

[Alex Kirchner]

No revenge win on Virginia. On the. Who's. You're not. We're not getting a revenge win.

[Richard Johnson]

That's Virginia though. So are those wins going to hold up? Maybe it's a timing thing, but then again, if he's lost to smu, Alabama and Miami, he's not going to make the Halloween.

[Stephen Godfrey]

No, it's, it's, it's an interesting spot because I mean, you could also look at the end of that year like they got a road game against Pittsburgh. You know how those can sometimes be if you're not very good. If you are good, it could be one thing. They got Florida. Florida. The last week of the season. Who knows what Florida is going to look like? But, but it doesn't actually, it doesn't actually tend to get that far. Right. Like if this is going badly, like he won't be, he won't be coaching that game if things have gone pretty poorly. Also a tough thing for them this year is that even if they were to beat Alabama in Tuscaloosa, I don't think that would get him out of the. Like. That wouldn't, that would, that would help the vibes. But it would only do so much because, well, we all saw what happened last year.

[Alex Kirchner]

Well, you can't, you just can't have like a Boston College after that. You can't have a two or three game streak, you know, losing streak.

[Richard Johnson]

Yeah. He will also luck out because should they win that game, oh my God, the gays goes just immediately onto the other sideline like the second it hit triple zero.

[Stephen Godfrey]

As in at Kaylin DeBoer. Yes, yes, I would agree with that. Here's an interesting.

[Alex Kirchner]

Yeah, but college football possesses the ability to have both fired this year.

[Richard Johnson]

That's fair. That's fair.

[Stephen Godfrey]

Do you remember 2022 when Brian Harson came into the year at Auburn after the attempted overthrow in the off season and you looked and you saw. Oh, interesting. Their quarterbacks are Robbie Ashford and TJ Finley. Do you remember that? That was 2022. Yeah. Does this not feel a little TJ

[Alex Kirchner]

Simla still playing college football?

[Stephen Godfrey]

Yes, he is. Is this not a little similar when Mike Norvell has not been fired, he returns. And their depth chart is literal. Auburn quarterback Ashton Daniels.

[Alex Kirchner]

Love it.

[Stephen Godfrey]

Plus everyone else in that quarterback room, Kevin Sperry, seems like he's probably the number two.

[Richard Johnson]

They're saying good things about the juco kid coming in, by the way, but he's not a chemist yet.

[Alex Kirchner]

What a June catchphrase.

[Stephen Godfrey]

That's good. That's almost as good as. The early enrollees are basically family by now. They've bonded in a way.

[Alex Kirchner]

Conditioning has completely changed. They are going to be the best.

[Stephen Godfrey]

He's like an older brother to these kids, the strength coaches. He spends time with them even when they're not lifting.

[Alex Kirchner]

Juco kid is impressing.

[Stephen Godfrey]

Thank you for listening. This has been a free preview of a subscriber episode for our [e-mail] if you'd like to become a paid subscriber today, you can do [e-mail].

[Richard Johnson]

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