Skinwalker - Classic

Summary

Spooked Podcast — Skinwalker - Classic (December 5, 2025)

Episode Overview

In this haunting episode of Spooked, host Glynn Washington introduces the long-awaited “Skinwalker” story, delving deep into the chilling and largely unspoken legend of shape-shifting witches from Indigenous communities. Storyteller Lee recounts eerie, generational experiences with skinwalkers—supernatural beings said to possess the power of transformation and terrifying power over the living. Through vivid family storytelling, the episode explores both inherited warnings and hair-raising firsthand encounters, merging folklore, trauma, and fear into a powerful oral tapestry.

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Main Themes & Purpose

• Unveiling Forbidden Stories: The Skinwalker legend is shrouded in fear and taboo; just speaking of it is considered dangerous.
• Intergenerational Folklore: Lee and their family pass down warnings, tales, and personal run-ins with mysterious, seemingly inhuman figures.
• Fear, Race & Curses: The episode weaves in personal, historical, and cultural perspectives on fear, marginalization, and otherness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. A Prologue on Curses and Storytelling

“Lies are curses, and curses are lies.” — Glynn Washington (04:32)

• Glynn Washington opens with a personal memory: a preacher’s racist reinterpretation of the Noah story, delivering a curse narrative about blackness (02:37–04:32).
• Washington confronts this narrative, claiming his own power and beauty, setting a tone of turning fear into strength.

2. Introducing the Skinwalker Legend

(05:11–06:13)

• Glynn explains the long search for an authentic skinwalker story given the taboo surrounding these tales in Native communities.
• Emphasizes the gravity and danger perceived in even discussing skinwalkers.

3. Family Ghost Stories — Grandmother’s Fireside Tales

(06:19–14:16)

• Lee recalls childhood nights filled with ghost stories and the comfort of family (best frybread in the world), building suspense in safety (06:19–07:49).

• Key Quote:

  “Are they true?”
  “They’re all true.” — Lee's Grandmother (07:09)

• The narrative focuses on Lee’s great-grandfather, a sheep herder, who had conflicts with a neighbor believed to practice black magic (06:19–10:49).

  • The Encounter:
    • One night, Lee’s great-grandfather spies on his neighbor, finding him naked by a fire, chanting—known signs of witchcraft (08:35–09:29).
    • Understanding the threat, but emboldened by knowledge, he confronts the neighbor:

      “I know what you do.” (11:06)

    • The neighbor begs for secrecy; the revelation of his deeds results in his mysterious illness and death—a warning of “knowledge as power and danger.” (12:06–12:31)

4. Skinwalkers vs. Ghosts: Real & Physical Danger

(12:49–14:16)

• Lee explains that while ghost stories abound, skinwalkers represent a real, physical threat to the community (13:14).
• Warnings from elders included not traveling alone at night and never calling attention to these beings.

5. Transmission of Trauma — Lee’s Father’s Story

(14:38–16:51)

• Lee’s father, on a church mission in the Midwest, is gripped by unexplainable dread when a fur-covered man suddenly appears, looks him in the eye, and disappears—an encounter echoing the skinwalker legends.

  • Memorable Moment (16:14–16:21):

    “My dad said that he looked very sad, very tired.” — Lee

• The event leaves Lee’s father “messed up,” convinced it wasn’t an ordinary person, deepening the fear within the family.

6. Grandfather’s Ritual Rite & Shared Figure

(17:28–20:28)

• Lee’s grandfather, during a coming-of-age ceremony, also encounters a strange, fur-clad man with miserable, haunting eyes.
• The men share a brief exchange (“wanting to die”), and the grandfather flees, forever changed (19:10–19:38).
• Lee notes the uncanny possibility that this was the same figure seen by both generations, despite distances in time and geography.

7. Rules of Survival: “Stay Clear of Them”

(21:36–22:15)

“Don’t try to conjure them or call them by whistling at night... If you do, this skinwalker will make itself known. It’ll chase you, it’ll follow you home.” — Lee (21:36)

• Lee shares the common-sense warnings and superstitions passed down to avoid skinwalker encounters, emphasizing isolation, darkness, and the dangers of curiosity.

8. Lee’s Own Encounter — The Chase

(22:15–30:49)

• At 14, Lee is driving a truck at dusk, dropping off a neighbor. Returning home with their younger brother and dog, Lee sees what appears to be a sheep but soon realizes it’s a creature “uncurling, stretching out”—a tall, furred, humanoid figure (25:09).

• A chase ensues; despite Lee pushing the truck to 65 mph on a dirt road, the creature keeps pace. Abject terror—the dog barks wildly, Lee’s brother cries out, “It’s coming up on your side!” (27:35).

  • Key Quote (27:00–27:20):

    “I’ve never been so scared in my life… Is this thing gonna kill us?” — Lee

• Only when they pass another car does the creature vanish, leaving Lee and their brother in terrified relief and fundamentally changed.

• Grandma, notably unfazed, offers only:

  “Yeah, stuff like that happens around here.” (29:47–30:11)

9. Legacy of Fear — The Cycle Continues

• After the incident, Lee becomes afraid to visit their grandmother and avoids the outdoors at night, with the previously innocent joys now tainted by dread (30:26–30:49).
• Several years later, Lee overhears their father crying after spotting the same fur-clad man while driving through Arizona:
  • The father’s emotional response—crying, shaken—demonstrates the deep psychological toll these encounters extract (31:55–33:07).
  • Lee fixates on the pattern: great-grandfather, grandfather, father, and self—all encountering the same figure. Lee now wonders if their own children will someday be faced with it (33:33–34:06).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Curses:

  “Lies are curses, and curses are lies.” — Glynn Washington (04:32)

• On Truth and Stories:

  “I would ask her to tell us true ghost stories... Her reply is, ‘They’re all true.’” — Lee (07:09)

• On Confrontation:

  “I know what you do.” — Lee’s grandfather to neighbor (11:06)

• On Skinwalker Reality:

  “For me, that was scarier than a ghost. Because a ghost, I was always told, couldn’t hurt me, whereas a skinwalker could actually physically hurt you.” — Lee (13:14)

• On the Creature:

  “It was like almost like uncurling, crouching, stretch out and just stand up straight. It was tall, and it was very thin. And it had long arms, it had long legs. It had fur on its shoulders, had fur on its arms, had fur on its legs.” — Lee (25:19–25:51)

• On Intergenerational Encounters:

  “I wonder if it is the same person... If what I saw, what my dad saw twice, and what my grandpa saw... I wonder if it’s the same person.” — Lee (33:33–33:50)

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Important Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |------------|---------------------------------------------------| | 00:40–04:42| Washington’s prologue on curses & personal story | | 05:11–06:13| Intro to Skinwalker legend & taboo | | 06:19–12:49| Lee’s family stories: grandmother & great-grandfather’s skinwalker encounter | | 14:38–16:51| Lee’s father’s skinwalker encounter | | 17:28–20:28| Grandfather’s ritual encounter with skinwalker | | 22:15–30:49| Lee’s firsthand truck chase encounter | | 31:39–34:06| Lee’s father’s later-life encounter & emotional fallout |

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Overall Tone & Impact

• Deeply suspenseful, reverent, and personal.
• Interweaves fear, skepticism, and awe with warmth and familial love.
• Intimate, oral storytelling both preserves and brings to life the dangerous reality of traditional legends, linking the supernatural with real-world trauma and intergenerational memory.

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Closing

Host’s Final Words:

“Evil comes in different shapes and sizes. There is no foolproof method for keeping the dark side at bay. But you don’t need to throw out the welcome mat either... Never ever, never ever, never, never ever, never ever turn out the...” — Glynn Washington (36:00–end)

A chilling reminder: the power of these stories is in their telling—and their warning.

Transcript

[A]

Once upon a midnight, scary demons, ghouls, ghosts and fairies gathered round the sacred tree. I saw them and they saw me. At first I thought to steal their rights. Then learned I was their sacrifice.

You've passed over to Spooked. Stay tuned.

Okay, so I'm 12 years old, sit next to my little brother in church. My pastor works himself up to a head of steam, wipes away the mop of his brown blondish hair, waves his hand in front of the congregation. Brethren, brethren. You think you know the story of the flood? Well, today I'm gonna tell you the secret history, the truth that's been hidden from you. I'm thinking. Secret history, huh? The Lord sees the evildoers inhabiting his land, and he tells Noah, the only good man he can find, to build him an ark. Noah obeys. Takes Noah a hundred years of hard labor, but he does it at God's command. All the animals and all the world start filing into the boat. Two by two, they somber slither, crawl, hopping past, right past all the wickedness onto this strange vessel erected miles from any water. And Noah, with the three sons and their wives, follow the animals inside. And the Lord pulls shut the door behind them. And then, finally, brethren, the rains come. For 40 days and 40 nights, the skies open up, washing away every single soul whose evil heart hath offended the Lord Almighty. And Noah's ark floats above their wretched corpses. A cleansing of sin. Brother, grant Noah and his children the chance for a new Eden. After sailing for a full year, they walk off the ark onto a reborn world. Untamed, Unsullied. Noah dances in joy at the good Lord's grace, whooping and hollering before collapsing into a deep slumber.

But then, brethren, Brethren. The unthinkable happens. Horror of horrors. In his sleep, this good man is defiled, violated, sodomized by one of his own. Son from.

In sin re enters the world.

And raised the Lord Almighty. He smites Noah's offending son, Ham, with a curse, brethren. A curse. A curse so powerful we still see the stain, the mark, burn into the skin of Ham's descendants today.

Do you wonder where Negroid skin came from, brethren?

[B]

From.

[A]

From that evil deed perpetrated by Noah's own child. Make no mistake. From that day forward, he and all his children and all his children's children, the African race, were cursed by the very hand of God.

I look down at my skin and I don't feel cursed.

I feel angry. I feel furious. Certain that either he's lying about that book or that book. Is full of lies. Either or.

Cursed.

I know the beauty of my grandmother's unlined ebony skin. I sit hours under the summertime sun, hoping to darken my tone to match hers.

[B]

Curse.

[A]

And I wonder as I snatch my little brother's hand and pull him down the aisle, out of the door, past the people pretending very, very hard not to see us, I wonder, why are they so afraid?

My name is Glenn Washington. Lies are curses, and curses are lies.

Spook starts.

Now.

Now. So here's the deal. When we started making spoof those many years ago, I wanted to find one certain kind of story. I wanted to tell you about skinwalkers, indigenous warlocks, witches, shape shifters. I've heard whispers around campfires, around back rooms, dark conversation. And I told my producers, we've got to nail this down. We have to. But. But sometimes these stories are hard to find. We scoured the country, the globe, our community, the Internet. And it seemed like we'd never find someone willing to tell us their story. Because sometimes just speaking about this kind of magic, this sacred mystery, it's forbidden. And that's why I am so excited to introduce you to our story storyteller Lee. You probably want to hold onto a loved one's hand right about now.

Spooked.

[B]

So she would tell us stories that scare the crap out of us, to be honest.

There would be a fire going.

We turn the TV off, and of course, we're already full from dinner and we're having other snacks.

As any native would say, their grandmother makes the best fried bread.

Well, guess what? My grandmother did make the best fried bread.

And I would ask her to tell us true ghost stories.

And her reply is, they're all true.

When I asked about more of what a skinwalker was, My grandma would tell me stories of my grandfather. One in particular was when he was out in the mountains.

Up in the hills not too far from where we were currently at that time.

My great grandfather, he was a sheep herder. And there was always somebody that was willing to buy that wool. It was a way to survive, way to live.

At this time, he did have issue with one of his neighbors down the way.

I don't know how it started, but there were sheep that were either missing or that were killed. And my great grandfather would take his sheep out to the mountains to graze.

And it was evening. He was getting ready to head home. Something caught his attention.

It was a noise, almost like a drum beat.

Somebody chanting or singing.

So he crawled up over this hill, and he was able to see that there was A fire.

He saw one person sitting next to the fire. My grandfather recognized him right away.

A neighbor down the road.

I think there were accusations of stealing sheep and things like that.

I think as he went over the ridge and he saw his neighbor naked, sitting around a fire. I don't know if he understood the words that were being said, but he knew in his head that it was. It was bad.

And, no, it was not a common sight to see that.

But he knew that his neighbor was what we call a witch.

Although my grandfather never saw him shape shift, he never saw anything, I guess, supernatural, you would say he knew that his neighbor was involved in that black magic.

How he came with that conclusion, I. I don't know. But in his head, his neighbor.

Had something to do with his sheep.

He left pretty quick, hoping that he wasn't seen.

He was worried that his neighbor would maybe get to him first somehow. So he was scared. He was scared because he knew the.

Power or the abilities that his neighbor had.

But I guess he felt empowered because he had that knowledge of what he was doing. He could later on confront him, which he did.

And so my grandfather approached this neighbor, and he said to him, I know what you do. And as he did that, his neighbor's eyes just grew just huge.

He was scared because he knew that my grandfather knew that he was involved in black magic.

And so his neighbor was very surprised, very scared, because it is said that if somebody knows who you are, they've also known what you've done, because in order to be a skinwalker, apparently, you have to kill somebody close to you.

This neighbor asked my grandfather, begged my grandfather, please don't tell anybody. I will give you sheep. I will give you this. I will give you what I have.

My grandfather just. I don't know why he made this decision, but he told people.

He told neighbors. He told his wife, my grandma. He told people in the community.

And according to my grandmother, that neighbor, he got very sick right after that, and he ended up passing away.

Well, I think every culture has what they consider the boogeyman.

I would hear different things from different people, but one thing that was always consistent was that they are real.

That there were people that used black magic. And for me, that was scarier than a ghost.

Because a ghost, I was always told, couldn't hurt me, whereas a skinwalker could actually physically hurt you.

After dinner, we're pulling our mattresses out. We would lay and have our mattresses set up on trampoline and make it as comfortable as possible, because you're gonna be out there all night.

Although it was summertime, it would get cold sometimes. So you made sure you had your blanket or your sleeping.

And you're just laying there and it's silent. There's no.

Traffic, there's no train. There's no airplanes that you hear.

Just the big park, black sky and tons of stars. More stars I've seen in my entire life.

It's perfect scene, perfect spot to tell ghost stories. My dad would come out and he lay down with us.

My dad told us about one of his experiences that happened to him when he was 19 years old.

And he was in the Midwest. Actually, he was not even on the reservation.

He was serving a church mission. And he was there in the wintertime in the snow.

My dad goes on to tell the story that he was driving from one town to another, and his companion, his partner, was asleep. And it was actually in the middle of the day.

He said it was cold, it was gloomy. And as he was driving.

He recalls having this feeling of just fear and dread that something was wrong.

At that moment. He said from the right side of the road, he saw a man jump over the fence on the side of the road and run right to the middle of the road.

My dad slammed on the brake, slid.

Stopped right where this man was.

And this man, who he describes as being covered in fur, and he put his hands right on the hood and looked at my dad right in the eyes.

My dad said that he looked very sad, very tired.

Just in the moments of looking eye to eye, he could tell that that man was not a normal man.

The man, after looking at my dad in the eye, ran away and jumped over the fence and took off again.

And he didn't know what to think of that, but he said it really messed him up because it wasn't just some bum that was in the middle of the road.

He said they were out in the middle of nowhere.

So my dad finishes telling us about his experience. And of course, we're scared because.

My dad telling us we believe every word that he says. And we ask, is there anything else? Has anything. Have you seen anything else? And so he goes into telling his dad's story, grandpa's story.

He goes on to tell us that.

Our grandpa, when he was younger, probably his early teens, when he's about to.

Perform a ceremony, a ritual, a rite of passage for a young man to become a man.

My grandfather was outside of what we call a kiva, made out of adobe. And it has big ladder coming out of the top where you enter and exit. And he was going to perform this ceremony in there, but for some reason he was outside of it.

All of a sudden he feels this same feeling that my dad describes to us.

Just overwhelming sense of fear and dread.

He didn't know what it was, but he felt this feeling that something was wrong.

And that's where this man just came out of nowhere.

Who was dressed in hides.

Animal for.

He approached my grandfather. And this man was tall, he was very dark.

His hair was very messed up, he was dirty. But what he describes that.

I still think about when he tells me this is the man's eyes and his face.

How just looking at him, you could tell this man was miserable, he was sad. He said something in my grandpa's language about wanting to die. They exchanged looks and my grandfather left. He ran away. I don't know what happened after that. Neither does my dad. But it did change my. My grandfather because he knew that person was, in his words, he was evil. And he felt like he was a witch. And he felt that he needed to get out of there as soon as possible.

What scares me the most about hearing my grandpa's story.

Is my dad is his belief that it was not just somebody that looked like the man that he saw, but that my dad, in his head, he believes that it was the same person.

But how was that possible from somebody from the early 1900s to meet my dad across the country in the 70s? He told us that story because he was wondered if something like that would happen to us.

What I've always been told is stay clear of them. Meaning don't try to conjure them or call them by whistling at night. Don't walk alone at night on the reservation. Don't drive at night alone on the reservation. Because if you do, this skinwalker will make itself known. It'll chase you, it'll follow you home. Stay as far as you can away from anybody that you think may be working in black magic.

A couple summers Later, I was 14 years old. This summer I spent with my grandma, helping her around the yard, planting things, watering her plants.

Ernie would be the one working the hardest. He was a neighbor. When I say a neighbor, he lived about three, three or four or five miles away. My grandma would always pay him to do things around the house.

Grandma would call out, hey, can you take Ernie home? And of course, I didn't have a license. I didn't have a permit. However, I did have experience. So I step inside and I grab the keys.

Load it up. My dog jumps back with Ernie. The bed of the truck. My Brother's right there in the front seat with me.

Off we went.

Take him home.

So it was getting dark. It wasn't dark yet, but the sun was going to be setting soon.

So we dropped him off.

I take a different route home, one that would be faster. And we're on the dirt road, very covered in washboards. I mean, nobody really maintained those roads, but perfect weather, 75 degrees, just enjoying the evening. Windows roll down.

Put my hand out, enjoying the air. You're driving and you put your hand out the window and just the wind in your hair. Grandma's old truck.

And listening to the only radio station that comes in from Holbrook, Arizona. And a lot of times I'd be playing oldies. My brother was next to me. He was just enjoying the same thing as well. My dog in the back. Although it was the most traveled road in that area, there was nobody else out. And as we were driving, I recall seeing something on the side of the road that caught my attention.

Possibly a sheep. Because out there's a lot of different sheep, a lot of free roaming. It's better be safe than sorry and slow down and not hit a sheep. And so I do slow down.

All of a sudden I feel this feeling of dread. It just.

I don't know how else to explain it. Just dark, empty feeling that something was wrong.

When I look in the mirror, I see what I thought was a sheep.

So it was like almost like uncurling, crouching, stretch out and just stand up straight.

It was tall and it was very thin.

And it had long arms, it had long legs.

It had fur on its shoulder, had fur on its arms, had fur on its legs.

And I see whatever this was running towards us, just running towards truck.

And I'm already going 30 miles an hour. And I see its arms swinging, these long arms and long legs, taking big strides.

At this point, I was speeding up.

I was going to the point where I was like 65 miles an hour on a dirt washboard road. So I was fishtailing and this thing is keeping up.

This thing is. Has the pace so, so strong so long that it's able to keep up. And I was thinking that because I could see it come into view every once in a while because I was fishtailing, trying to keep control of the tr.

I've never been so scared in my life where so many things going through my head and thinking, is this real? I'm thinking, is this really happening? Is this. Is this thing gonna kill us?

My dog was barking. I've never heard my dog Bark that way, the way that the pitch in his bark. I could tell he was scared or he was angry. He was everything.

My brother also is crying and he's saying, it's coming up on your side. I looked in the mirror and it was very close.

And I didn't know what was going to happen.

I sped up, up and I went as fast as I could in that old truck.

At that moment we were going around a bend, car was coming towards us and had his lights on.

As we passed each other, I felt this just instant relief, like roof.

Like I could breathe again.

Like whatever was chasing us was gone. I don't know if it was, if it hid. I don't know if it went to go chase after the other vehicle. I have no idea. I just know that I didn't see it in my mirror. And I felt just this relief that it was gone. And I was still speeding towards grandma's house. Cuz I knew I had to get home. I couldn't be out there. There was. Whatever was out there was out there still.

We drove back to my grandma's house as fast as we could and I told my brother, as soon as we park, you run out and get into the.

Jump out, slam the door shut, pass the porch into the house. And so we all got inside and slammed the door shut, locked it.

Made sure it was locked, double checked it, closed the windows.

And as we get back, my grandmother there, she's attending to the fire. She saw how scared we were and she said, what's, what's wrong? What happened? We told her briefly what had happened and grandma said, yeah, stuff like that happens around here.

My brother and I looked at each other like, oh my gosh, this is real. So all those stories that we heard growing up of the boogeyman or skinwalkers, for us, it became a reality.

And it messed me up for a bit. I'll be honest, I was scared to go back out there and see grandma. I was so scared to.

Just step foot outside at night. We used to sleep on a trampoline at night with the dogs out there. Those days were over.

It was four or five years later, my dad came home. I'm already in bed, I am laying down, but my room is next to the living room.

So I hear everything.

And something was wrong.

He was talking to my mom.

And crying.

And telling her about what had happened to him as he was coming back from Phoenix.

That he was driving.

On Interstate 17 between Phoenix and Flagstaff. And it was right when he got into the pine tree. So he had made it up higher altitude.

And he saw on his right side, up on a little ledge or a hill, the same man that he saw when he was a missionary.

He said it almost made him crash. And he described him as being the exact same and being able to see him with enough light in his. In his headlights that it would to know that wearing the same animal skins or hides, having no shoes, being tall, dark and dirty.

But one thing he did mention, he mentioned those eyes again. He mentioned how tired they looked and how sad they looked.

And that's how he knew it was the same person, by the way, by looking in his eyes. And to hear your dad crying in another room.

It scared me.

I didn't go out there. I didn't know what to do. It was a new experience hearing my dad cry and thinking how your dad is this big tough guy and has gone through a lot. You don't ever see him cry. And for him to be crying, I didn't want to see that. I didn't know how to react to it. I don't know how. What I could do to help him. So I just stayed there in my room.

I wonder if it is the same person.

If it is the same thing.

If what I saw.

What my dad saw twice, and what my grandpa saw.

I wonder if it's the same person.

There's a trend here, not a good one.

I have three sons. I wonder if or when they'll have their experience.

[A]

Big thanks and big love to our storyteller Lee. And thanks to your granny and your grandfather and your dad and your great grandfather for sharing your stories with us too. Stay safe out there. Drop us a line if anybody ever comes back.

The original score for that story was by Leon Morimoto. It was produced by Annie Nguyen.

Yes, yes, yes, you've heard from other folk. But if you have a personal story that spooked you, where you touched a force, a power, a being that was not supposed to be there, where you had a relationship with the mystery. Send us your story [e-mail] There is nothing better than a spook story from a spook listener. But don't tell me you saw a ghost. Everybody saw a ghost. Yet if you have a real story, let us know. Spook snapjudgment.org and if you like your storytelling in the bright light of day, subscribe to the amazing Snap Judgment podcast because it might just change your life.

Spook was brought to you by the amazing team that never assumes a shape that is not their own. Except of course, for Mark Ristich. Mark has many, many forms. There's Anna Sussman. Our chief spookster is Eliza Smith, Chris Hambrick, Andy Nguyen, Lauren Newsom, Leon Morimoto, Renzo Gorio, Tailed between Kot, Marissa Dodge, Aaliyah Yates, Zoe Ferrigno, Greta Weber, Jacob Winick, Sanne Khan, Tiffany Delisa, Anne Ford, Fernando Hernandez and Flo Wiley. The spook theme song is by Pat Masini Miller. My name is Glenn Washington. Follow me on the Twitter, the Instagram for a whole different type of story. And yes, evil comes in different shapes and sizes. There is no foolproof method for keeping the dark side at bay. But you don't need to throw out the welcome mat either. My advice, my recommendation is simple. Goes like this here. Never ever, never ever, never, never ever, never ever turn out the.