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Squawk on the Street
The DOJ's Powell Probe, Trump Slams Exxon Mobil, Apple-Gemini AI Connection 1/12/26
00:45:27
Carl Quintanilla, Jim Cramer and David faber led off the show with the "Sell America" trade amid worries about Fed independence: Fed Chair Jerome Powell said he is facing a Justice Department criminal probe regarding his Capitol Hill testimony about Fed building renovations. Powell added he believes the investigation is a pretext as part of President Trump's push for lower interest rates. The anchors also reacted to Trump threatening to sideline Exxon Mobil from Venezuela after its CEO Darren Woods said the country's oil market is "uninvestable." Jim discloses what Apple Services chief Eddy Cue told him about Google's Gemini AI. Also in focus: Meta picks a new president, Paramount files a lawsuit against Warner Bros. Discovery, Cramer discusses news coming out of the J.P. Morgan Healthcare Conference in San Francisco — and previews his upcoming CEO interviews from that event. Squawk on the Street Disclaimer
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- [00:00]
Podcast Host / Advertiser
This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and subscribe@schwab.com Market Update podcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:29]
AT&T Business Wireless Advertiser
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David Faber
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AT&T Business Wireless Advertiser
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David Faber
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Carl Quintanilla
Market moving insight and analysis Join Jim Cramer, David Faber and me, Carl Quincean here on the opening bell hour of cnbc. Squawk on the Street Good Monday morning. Welcome to Squawk on the Street. I'm Carl Quincean here with the David Faber here at Post nine of the New York Stock Exchange. Kramer is at the J.P. morgan Health Care Conference in San Francisco. More on that in a moment. Meantime, stocks down, bonds down, dollar down as the street reacts to federal prosecutors investigating the Fed chair's testimony to Congress, a threat that many arg you is endangers Fed independence Weeks going to be packed with eco data conferences, bank earnings and maybe a SCOTUS decision on tariffs. Our roadmap begins with markets under pressure as prosecutors do begin a criminal investigation into the Fed chair.
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David Faber
Plus bank stocks and credit card related companies. Those stocks all dropping in the early trading. This of course, as the President calls for a one year cap on credit card rates and Exxon Mobil also under fire. This is President Trump also threatening to sideline that company from Venezuela's oil market, saying they're playing it too cute.
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Carl Quintanilla
Let's begin with stocks down today around the globe. The Fed chair confirming the DOJ served the Fed with grand jury subpoenas on Friday, threatening a criminal indictment over his Capitol Hill testimony about the central bank's building renovation. In a video posted last night on the Fed's website, Powell said the probe is a pretext as part of the president's push for lower rates.
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Jim Cramer
This unprecedented action should be seen in the broader context of the administration's threats and ongoing pressure. This new threat is not about my testimony last June or about the renovation of the Federal Reserve buildings. It is not about Congress's oversight role. The Fed, through testimony and other public disclosures, made every effort to keep Congress informed about the renovation project. Those are pretexts. The threat of criminal charges is a consequence of the Federal Reserve setting interest rates based on our best assessment of what will serve the public, rather than following the preferences of the President. This is about whether the Fed will be able to continue to set interest rates based on evidence and economic conditions or whether instead monetary policy will be directed by political pressure or intimidation.
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Carl Quintanilla
And Jim, as you wrote this morning, Powell finally pushing back.
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Jim Cramer
Right. Well, look, I think that Chairman Powell has done a terrific job and he's out there every day trying to figure out which is the best way for rates to go and you get sidelined. But I think it's important to point out about criminality. I think that for pretty much since the founding Fathers, frankly, we always had this idea that when you go to a grand jury and you bring a criminal charge, you're going to get a criminal charge. A grand jury will just lay down and do it. And this is a matter like many of the matters that the President talks about, they get them criminalized. I mean, get criminalized. It really makes it so that you, it changes your life rather dramatically. And I think that pals amazing to want to fight it and not say, listen, can we have some sort of deal? What is this? But I think he's right. You, David, look, I think this is pretty naked. You want rates down. But I think it's important. Paul's not going to be a Fed chairman much longer. So what you're doing is attacking the chair itself and not the chairman.
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David Faber
Well, I think that is the takeaway this morning for many, Jim, is that this is not necessarily as much about Powell as it really could be about his successor. And the idea that this President and this administration is going to do whatever it takes regardless. So even if they get their person in there, so to speak, their person, obviously they're going to be choosing that person. Jim, there is this idea that they are not expected then to perhaps show that real independence that they all claim they will have. Because of course, there's the shadow of being indicted, I guess.
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Jim Cramer
Right. Well, I think only a hack would want the job. Now, I think if you go after the Fed chairman for decorating, for building a project that he obviously nothing to do with. He's not a general contractor. Carl, what happens, you basically just say, you know what? I'm going to take the Fed chair and I want to do exactly what the President says Because that's why I've been appointed. It's not the charter, but I think we deal with administration, where when you get in the job, you better go with the program. If you've got the program, it's very possible you'll be criminally indicted. And I don't know, whoever wants that job, I think better have a real good law firm, because I think that at any given moment, you're going to be told what to do. You have to stand up for yourself. You stand up for yourself, then who knows what could happen? I mean, maybe there's like a lunchroom where they're giving away food. And it's really. The chairman said it, and we got to look into it because that's, that's our tax dollars. There's a lot of ways to. Well, look, if you want to criminally indict anybody, you can do it. That's unfortunate. And we all understand the power of the Justice Department. If I were to get a subpoena. If you were to subpoena. Because we suddenly found out that we had. I just said I thought this was a bad idea. And what happens is that, you know what? There's something that my wife did that I don't know. I mean, boom, it's all going to be like that. If we want to criminalize everything, let's just take the market down 10%, get it restarted, see how the president feels. Maybe we call it like a Liberation Day, Part 2, but I don't think anyone wants a job where if you decorate, you're going to get criminally indict after all.
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Carl Quintanilla
That's true. Jim, why are bonds arguably taking this somewhat in stride today?
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Jim Cramer
Well, the bond market actually doesn't react to the President. Kevin's. Yeah, look, we've got lower inflation. I think that things are better. I think that that's why we have a Fed chief that has really made a series of cuts that were rather aggressive, despite the fact that we have a pretty good economy. The president would tell you that. David, does the president tell you every day that we don't have the greatest economy in the world, which usually means we've got to be a little bit careful about inflation. But right now we've got a good economy, not a great economy, and plenty of reasons why rates can go lower? And that's why the Fed chief has done his own bidding in the bidding of the country. I don't think the Fed chief comes to work every day thinking, darn, I got to. I got to talk to those contractors. I don't I don't like the way that they're, they're, they're doing overtime and David, look, criminal in time, we. I don't think we make enough point as journalists to what it does to your life. It turns your life upside down. You basically just say, you know what? I've had it. If you can get away from it and not have to go to jail or not have to go through a very expensive process of defeating the government, then you'll do it. I mean, I think that. I think that the President thought that maybe Powell would roll over because he's almost done. I don't know. What do you think?
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David Faber
Yeah, perhaps. I don't really know what the exact. Might have thought, given that he is almost done as well. I mean, he might have been thought more likely to fight. You and I, to the extent we are aware of him and know the way he thinks about these things. I mean, he has not really taken the bait from the many criticisms he has received from the President, who, of course, we should point out, did nominate him during his first term. But even then, remember, Powell would come under fire from the President in terms of lower rates. And obviously it's been much more heated over the course of the last year since President Trump took office. Again, you know, Powell fights, and he is clearly doing that here. Jim. We should point out as well, though, that this is an administration whose Justice Department has chosen to prosecute others who are perceived to be enemies of the President and has failed, actually, in at least one instance I'm aware of, to even get indictments for those prosecutions or potential prosecutions, which is extremely rare.
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Jim Cramer
Right. Well, look, the Nixonian thing, I mean, it does feel like combination McCarthy in that Senator McCarthy and Nixon, when you decide that you don't like someone and the Justice Department is moderately independent, but not totally independent, you can go after people, you can savage their lives. I mean, I think that Jay Powell's life is about to be savaged by the President, United States. I think the President could say the Justice Department looked into this and decided that the contractors were directly related and doing whatever Powell did. I think it'll be fatuous, but it doesn't matter if it's factual. Carl. When you're indicted by the Justice Department, you're just not the same person. Not that you're a person who basically just says, I don't want this job. And the new Fed guys, I guess they just say, you know, because lower I lower rates, no indictment, I raise rates. Maybe an indictment.
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David Faber
Right. Okay.
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Jim Cramer
What is that we all accept that.
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David Faber
But Jim, that's, that's the key point then. So that would indicate that we would no longer have an independent Fed. So what does that mean?
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Jim Cramer
No kidding.
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David Faber
All right, so what's the implication of that then?
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Jim Cramer
Well, I think that the President would say what matters is we got lower rates with better economy and that's really what matters. And nothing else matters. You know, Carl, I'm really trying to just make a case that, that if you want to be the Fed chief, you got to accept the fact you got to do the President's bidding. It's just not worth it. I mean, there's plenty. I mean, if you're going to be criminally indicted for something I think Powell had not only nothing to do with and have your life basically destroyed by the President of the United States, I don't know. I'd rather not have that job. I don't want my life destroyed by the President.
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Carl Quintanilla
Well, Hassett did tell us on our air this morning he's still interested in the job. The Journal says that even before this investigation was announced by Powell that he hired outside counsel and was sort of ready for this evercore. Today is interesting, Jim. They think the committee's going to rally behind Powell. They think Barr and maybe Jefferson might stay on, whereas they might not have otherwise. And as they write this would deny the new chair a majority and constrain rate policy, almost certainly resulting in fewer cuts than would otherwise have been the case.
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Jim Cramer
Well, I think it can backfire because these people are independent, I think. Let's just go back for a second. If you're the Fed chief and you do the President's bidding, you're going to get a lot of really terrific support from, from the President. And if you don't, then it's obvious right now that you can trump up anything. And I don't mean to use that verb that lightly. You know, David, I find that we're at a moment where you got to do what the President says. Whether you're. Darren woods ex. I know that was a mistake. He spoke up in Venezuela. Whether any of the banks today, they speak out about how you can't have a 10% cap, then their lives could be turned upside down. It's unfortunately in this administration incredibly easy to go criminal. Usually criminal is the last thing you do. This is the first thing you do.
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David Faber
Raise the two other stories, certainly in the market today, and obviously this was the one from late Friday, the credit card rate cap for at least one year to 10%, a one year cap versus, you know, some of them charging as much as 22%. Whether or not that actually could happen is very much unclear. But it is having an impact, Jim. And again, this is the president and perhaps the move on affordability, certainly a part of that, but it is having an impact on, I mean, you pick your, pick your name, synchrony or cof, obviously Capital One, which, which you love, Citi and many others that have large credit card businesses are being impacted. You can see the broader impact in the market as well. But take a look at some of these names. We're seeing the impact there. And then you mentioned as well, Darren woods, who spoke his mind, I guess, too much during the meeting on Friday in terms of at least Exxon's posture vis a vis Venezuela and the redevelopment that would have to take place there and ran afoul of the President as well.
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Jim Cramer
Well, look, it's nutty to try to figure out the impact away from that. But Carl, you would sit there and you think, well, who can't be regulated by the government directly, maybe they have a better shot. Would the president say, you know what, I don't like how much Apple is charging for services. They made too much money, which is something we're going to hear this morning. Apple just announced its service business is terrific. Something that, by the way, is exactly the opposite of what Wall street has been saying. And I think that's important you maybe buy Apple. You have to matter today. Why? Because Meta appointed someone who was able to get Saudi wealth and they are perceived to be the company, the one company that is way behind because they said they're going to spend a lot of money. So you might want to go with those stocks. I hate to be so material and mercantile, but I think it's going to move those stocks up. You want Magnificent Seven. They have less exposure. But as far as the credit card companies, we know that they lose 3 to 5% on credit cards. We know that credit cards are unsecured debt. We have to just say yourself, how many companies would issue credit cards knowing with a cap of 10%? And the answer is none, because they lose too much money. So you have to say spending would go down. You have to say there would be credit for nothing. And look, that's an easy way to get a crash going. I'm surprised the president wants to get a crash going because I think he cares a lot. But I think if you decide, listen, the banks can't lend, what would the country look like? I mean, everyone wouldn't be like, retail sales are plus 3, they'd be like minus 10. So let's remember there is some consequence to the economy. When you do, when you say something like that, I think the President has to back it up. Of course, the President doesn't have the authority to do that. But I'm not sure what the President's game plan is here. If he wants to take the market down, just say it. Just say, look, the markets get on 10%, I'm going to attack the Fed and attack the banks. Let me go after some other people because, you know, look, let's just take, let's just mandate a crash. That's a bummer. I mean, we're sitting here thinking the economy is pretty good, but we have to have the market down because the President's very unhappy. He's like happy. What do you got, David?
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David Faber
Now your point is a good one. Your point one is important one about the incentives would be to stop lending, which obviously, you know, Jim, listen, it's been all Trump, obviously first 13 and a half minutes of the show for. For obvious reasons. Guys, I did want to just add breaking news that we have involving. What else? The fight over Warner Brothers discovery. It's now moving to the courts. Not perhaps unexpected, but also perhaps a reflection of the frustration that Paramount feels and that it is not choosing to raise its bid in any significant way or any way at all, I should say, but instead now challenging Warner Brothers board of directors both in Delaware court and going to also nominate directors for that board and a few other things in a statement out along with this filing of a lawsuit in Delaware can tell you a few of the following things. They've given advance notice for Warner Brothers 2026 annual meeting that opens just in a few weeks. They will nominate a slate of directors who they want basically to exercise the rights under the Netflix agreement to engage on Paramount's offer. Now we're. What does this really mean? Well, probably not much of anything because the shareholder vote would likely take place prior to the annual meeting of Warner Brothers. But it is a way to continue to apply pressure. It is a way to say, hey, if you thought about delaying this shareholder vote, well, we're going to nominate for the annual meeting and for that as well to continue to put pressure. They also want to have a bylaw that says you have to have a vote on the split of the company itself self again, something that they again is designed to apply pressure. As you take a look at Warner Brothers shares and what they are suing for in Delaware court, well, comes back to what they claim has been a failure on Warner Brothers part to include any disclosures about how it values Global Networks. Remember the stub there in its 14D9 and what the basis is for its risk adjustment of the $30 per share all cash offer as well, which involves perhaps if you needed to, a reduction of the overall debt at Global Networks. That would then be a reduction in the overall Netflix bid. But of course, less debt at Global Networks could be described as a positive there, so conceivably would result in a higher stock price. Let me just give you a quick takeaway here, guys, on this before we move on, which is simply they've gone to the courts now in Delaware. They're nominating for the board of directors. They're seeking a bylaw to get a shareholder vote on the split itself. They're applying pressure in different ways because they feel as though they had been disfavored throughout this process, whether right or wrong in that contention. And I certainly have my reservations about that. But it is not a raised bid. And you know, in many ways I do wonder whether they feel as though in the Paramount camp, clearly that it doesn't matter. Whatever they were going to do would not be leading to a potentially superior offer, or at least the opportunity to talk about that with the board. It's not clear to me that that really is the case or that in any way the CEO is entrenched, or that they really do favor the Netflix bid beyond reason in terms of it being a much larger company and a higher market cap and not straight jacketing them with certain kinds of covenants and on and on from there. I'm happy to go into more detail on it, Jim, but right now, you know, the idea that Larry Ellison's got to come back with another $10 billion to add to the equity that he's providing already 1440.4 billion. Because frankly, even though the debt is there from the banks, I don't think they're going to increase that debt load. Based on what I've heard right now, we're not seeing that. We're now seeing lawsuits and potentially board fights and nominees. Although, again, that may not actually happen given you're going to have a shareholder vote, most likely on the Netflix deal prior to any annual meeting at Warner Brothers.
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Jim Cramer
Yeah, David is curious. I listened to your excellent interviews with the chairman. We know where the CEO is, David Zaslav. This is not the way to get the job done. It's kind of a big waste of time and a lot of attorneys fees for Paramount. David isn't it ironic that there is a price that you could pay and and Netflix has to lose and yet they won't pay it.
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David Faber
Well, they've chosen not to because they feel that $30 a share, all cash for the entire company, is superior in value and certainty. And certainty becomes an important component here overall. Remember than the 2740 or so that the Netflix deal is currently worth. And then you add whatever the value is of the global networks business, which again, they are now suing to get more information around from Warner Brothers board. That's what they feel. And they're like, why would we bother going higher when we already have the superior bid on value? And what they claim is certainly. Jim, I counter with, it's not clear to me that that is going to be the view of the Warner Brothers board. It certainly hasn't been so far.
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Jim Cramer
No. But you did find a guest who did come on and say that their bid was superior. I thought that that was indicative of that. There might be some people who believe.
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David Faber
Yeah, without a doubt. And all of it may come down to a shareholder vote many, many, many months from now. Guys. So, Carl, it's the president's view.
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Jim Cramer
Who's the president for? Does he like Netflix, by the way?
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David Faber
It's an important question. You're right, it's an important question. We know this president involves himself in basically everything and so do you get indicted?
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Jim Cramer
Do you get indicted?
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David Faber
If you keep going against, you don't get indicted.
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Jim Cramer
I don't want to be indicted.
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David Faber
You might get a tweet so that.
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Jim Cramer
I'm just checking where the Justice Department is. Yeah.
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Carl Quintanilla
Take a look at the pre market here. We'll get to oil and gold and unh. A bunch of calls today on Comcast, Palantir, Airbnb, some retail guides on the tape and of course more from Jim at JPM Healthcare. Stay with us.
- [20:07]
Podcast Host / Advertiser
This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and subscribe@schwab.com MarketUpdatePodcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts.
- [20:35]
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- [21:20]
Carl Quintanilla
Edu Jim, let's talk about this week and JP Morgan's health care conference. A lot of news coming out, right?
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Jim Cramer
Well we've got Novo, which I think is in a battle obviously with Lilly. We have Medtronic, looks like better than expected numbers coming there. Pfizer let's you know, principal vaccine company in the country. I think we have to accept, Carl, that the vaccine business is under fire. I don't think that Dr. Borla is ready for a fight with RFK Jr. I think RFK Jr. Wins on this. Let's see what Pfizer has to say because they actually have a lot of important vaccines that maybe should be called into question. I mean look, I don't want pneumonia but I don't know, maybe get that vaccine for pneumonia. Who knows what can happen.
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Carl Quintanilla
Yeah. Although Moderna today does reiterate their revenue target of 10% for 26 stocks up a little bit pre market.
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Jim Cramer
I hope they do it. I hope they do it. Those have been that's been a serial disappointment to me for about eight years now.
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Carl Quintanilla
What's the other big thematic that you're seeing coming out of their cancer?
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Jim Cramer
Perhaps most favorite, most favored nation. The president trying to get prices down and do direct. Maybe that cuts out the middleman. It's supposed to look, you can see that it might be bad for McKesson. The president has said he doesn't like that group. That stock keeps hitting a 52 week high. So that stock defies the president look out. But also it's going to be oncology as you mentioned. No real breakthroughs that I see so far. I hope that we get something involving earnings per share pre announcements. I've seen a couple of small ones and then maybe a merger too. I've seen them done here and a lot of times there is news beyond just earnings.
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Carl Quintanilla
Yes. And we will after the break talk about some of the guidance we're getting out of retailers. The ICR conference is happening concurrently and we do have some M and A in the airline business. We'll get a West coast edition of Kramer's Mad Dash Countdown to the opening bell with one more look here at the Pre Market. Don't go away.
- [23:11]
Podcast Host / Advertiser
This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Landsford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and subscribe@schwab.com MarketUpdatePodcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts. Before we had ATT Business Wireless coverage, our delivery GPS wasn't the most reliable. Once our driver had to do a 14 point turn to get back on route. A 14 point turn. An influencer even livestream the whole thing.
- [23:54]
Jim Cramer
Not good for business.
- [23:55]
Podcast Host / Advertiser
Now with AT&T business Wireless, routes are updating on the fly and deliveries are on time.
- [24:01]
David Faber
And the influencer did get us 53 new followers though. AT&T business Wireless Connecting changes everything.
- [24:09]
AT&T Business Wireless Advertiser
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- [24:38]
David Faber
Com sxm west coast version of the mad dash. Want to talk a little Walmart? I know they had some news as well over the weekend, I believe, Jim, in terms of what? A new partnership with Gemini as they continue continue to grow that.com business of theirs?
- [24:54]
Jim Cramer
Absolutely. And I think that this is something you already have a chat cbt. Obviously Gemini continues to, I think gain strength. You want to have the same kind of deal that they have with Chat GPT, which is a more intuitive ordering system, kind of like Amazon for literally. I think people would say this is better than Amazon in some ways because I have to tell you, Gemini reaches a point very quickly where you might want to buy it. Wal Mart also buy something from Wal Mart. Wal Mart also added to the NASDAQ 100 replaces AstraZeneca. Dave Not a lot of money is indexed the NASDAQ 100, but people are still buying it in part because of that Stock was up 5 at one point, which is pretty ridiculous. But it just reminds you David, that that there is going to be an economic component, commerce component to the ChatGPT and to Gemini that actually is to going. Going to be very valuable for the customers. Very valuable for Wal Mart and of course extremely valuable for Gemini and ChatGPT.
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David Faber
Yeah. Well and important then for Open Air as well to your point in terms of whether it can generate some real profits for that company. But you know, Wal Mart itself represents a challenge to Amazon I think and we've talked about this a bit that is pretty significant, does it not Jim?
- [26:07]
Jim Cramer
Absolutely. It's funny there's just with the drones that Wal Mart has where they're ahead of Amazon. Look, I think that Amazon's disappointment in the market is directly related to Wal Mart which has come on very strong as a very good E comm initiative where they can deliver to your home. Everybody's close to Wal Mart in the whole country. So I think that when you see Wal Mart up, you see Amazon down. Don't just presume that's because Amazon Web Services may not be as strong. I think Amazon Web Services is strong. Be thinking that Walmart is legitimate challenger. They have a great balance sheet and they're everywhere. Yeah.
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David Faber
I mean again to the point we've made, the retail business is still important at Amazon. Yes. Amazon Web Services yo is the. You know. Yeah. But it's got significance and we'll have to see of course as we watch Amazon on both those fronts. But it's capital spending as well as we point out is not just all Amazon Web Services. Most of it is no cap and.
- [26:58]
Jim Cramer
A lot of money and that's why.
- [26:59]
David Faber
A lot of money on the retail.
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Jim Cramer
That's why. Right. Don't you think that that data pound, McCormick, Goldman also Trump and Bush becoming president of madam maybe about trying to get sovereign wealth money to offset how much Marshall Gabriel spending.
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David Faber
It's an interesting point, Jim. Obviously the numbers from that are enormous and not amortized over a cloud business. To your point.
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Carl Quintanilla
Yeah. Jim just wrote sovereign money coming like.
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Jim Cramer
Their stock is down very big because they're really a lone wolf when it comes to spending. By the way Carl, we're. I talked about Apple having much better than expected service revenue. Apple's been down, down, down since the year began because people think the service revenue is going to be disappointing. That's clearly wrong. We've got a statement on the tape today saying it's actually pretty good. So let's keep that in mind.
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Carl Quintanilla
Yes, Eddie Q. Reflecting on what they're calling an outstanding year for Apple Services. We'll talk about that in a second. There's the opening bell though, and the CNBC real time exchange of the big board. It's JPM kicking off the health care conference week, of course, where Kramer is at the Nasdaq. It's Twin Health, a private company focused on treating metabolic diseases here. Jim, as we are still holding 6900. I'm just thinking about everything that's coming our way this week. CPI tomorrow, retail sales later in the week, maybe scotus. How would you gauge risk appetite at the moment given the Fed headlines?
- [28:21]
Jim Cramer
I think, sure. I think there's a lot of money coming into the market just not going to the places the people thought. Now until today the bank group had been one of the strongest bank stocks report this week it just keeps rotating now. This week it'll be health care. It rotates away from the president. And I think the president has to realize his power. Maybe it doesn't matter what he thinks with the stock market, I totally get that it did mean something during April last year when Liberation Day came. But I do think that the money just finds another place, David. The money just weaves and weaves. There's so much coming in. There's a lot of M and A. Look, even this little Legion deal doesn't say something to you.
- [28:59]
David Faber
I guess it says, yeah, you know, it's good to have consolidation when you're a small airline. I don't know.
- [29:06]
Jim Cramer
Well, I think consolidation is no longer the enemy. The previous regime looked at consolidation with the FTC and said consolidation means higher prices for the consumer. These say consolidation means higher prices for the Stockholm.
- [29:21]
David Faber
Yes, the antitrust policy of the administration certainly is one that is perceived to be more lenient with exceptions we don't know about because of course, as you raise around Warner Brothers and Netflix and Paramount for example, we simply don't know because we wonder what the president will think. We don't usually administrations, we did not have those kind of specific questions about one person's view. But in this case that is much more of the case. So yes, there is a belief that there is a more lenient overall interest structure and there are going to be plenty of companies that take advantage of that. The exception being those companies that in some way run afoul of the President.
- [30:06]
Jim Cramer
Well, what did you think about the Exxon, David, you know Exxon very well. Didn't you think that Darren expressed something that everyone in the room felt but never wanted to Say because now they've been singled out.
- [30:16]
David Faber
Yes. I mean we were reporting, Brian Sullivan was reporting this. I was hearing the same. And just in terms of the, the need for long term guarantees around security and that's not just physical security, but also the idea that I think Mr. Woods raised this, that things can't be renationalized at some point so we're going to go spend money again only to watch ourselves lose it. So there's no doubt in my mind because I was having those conversations and I don't want to speak for Brian, but I heard his reporting as well and it was similar, that those are the kinds of things that we need if we're going to make a long term commitment here of enormous amounts of capital that will be needed to rebuild the oil infrastructure in Venezuela. But apparently that's not something that the President was, was happy to hear. It's not clear to me what that really means for ExxonMobil. It's not even clear to me that they would necessarily care that much about being kept out of Venezuela. I don't know the answer. I do believe though we do. What do we have? We have sound from ExxonMobil. From Trump. Yeah, that's what I thought. Oh, on Air Force One last night. Take a listen.
- [31:24]
Jim Cramer
I didn't like Exxon response. You know, we have so many that want it. I'd probably be inclined to keep Exxon out. I didn't like their response.
- [31:34]
David Faber
They're playing too cute. So that was the statement, Jim. But again, I'm not sure what that really means from the practical side in terms of it. Exxon controls the very important partnership in Guyana that we've talked about a lot. Chevron is now their partner having bought Hess as well as I think it's the Chinese. So you know, they do have that already.
- [32:01]
Jim Cramer
Right? Well, I think it does say you got to keep your mouth shut when the President calls in all the bankers, which I think he will do, and say, listen, we need 10% cap. I don't think you can tack the President head on. I think that's been a big mistake to work with the administration. Some of the people who are directly involved with credit cards explain that it could hurt consumer spending and find a way to be able to deal with this problem maybe without they're not going to win Congress. Maybe just, you know, a softer way. I mean, Carl, it seems to be you either are yet criminally, criminally indicted, not to be like civil but criminally indicted, or you get singled out. And one of the Things we've learned from the President is just don't take them on, find another way. It gets personal very quickly. And a lot of these executives, they're just not used to that. Carl?
- [32:46]
Carl Quintanilla
Well, yeah, I was looking at the statement from the American Bankers association today, Jim. We share the President's goal of helping Americans. That's how it starts out. So your advice to corporates is just to sort of roll over.
- [33:00]
Jim Cramer
Exactly. Work with other people, administration, who are a little bit closer to the ground. You can't really roll over here because it would be the end of consumer spend because these guys just would rather not issue credit cards since they lose 3 to 5%. These are unsecured loans. They're trying to find another way because I know that it gets very personal very quickly. So it's better just to play along. Just say, I'm going to learn and then I'll do some teaching and see how things go than it does to take them head on. I mean, you know.
- [33:29]
David Faber
Well, when it comes, you know. Yeah, I've been listening to you. I know sometimes we can, of course, because I'm, I'm distracted by texting or things of that nature and may not listen to you as closely as you'd like. I've been listening to you this morning, though, and on the Fed and on corporations in terms of their response to the. The President, you seem to be saying, too bad he's in charge and that's the way it goes. Isn't that. Well, I think there's longer term, not necessarily a recipe for success in a capitalist country.
- [34:02]
Jim Cramer
Well, I would say yes. I think that we all dance around it. No one wants to say it because it ends up that you're like the bad guy. But yeah, I think it's bad for capitalism. I'm as Kelly and go and say, you know, I love capitalism. Capitalism is really terrific. It's been the way we've done things and I think that it's kind of being torn asunder by the idea that it's very personal. Capitalism is not personal, Carl. It is not. Richard Fairbank runs Capital One. I know he's, you know, he will be excoriated. Marcus Press doesn't even do the kind of lending. If they go after Steve Square, it'd be weird. Visa, MasterCard don't do any lending. They're just a. They're process companies. But everyone is liable to be embarrassed or if they really don't play ball, be criminally indicted. And there's a real risk. You want to keep your head Down. Do you want to roll over? That seems to be the best way to do it. You figure that he's not going to be president forever and you roll over.
- [34:55]
Carl Quintanilla
Although I mean we were watching say affirms a good example which was up pre market.
- [35:00]
Jim Cramer
Yes.
- [35:00]
Carl Quintanilla
Relatively flat now. But where does it end, Jim? Does it, does it, do we get a tweet tomorrow about buy now, pay later? Do we get a tweet the next day about subprime auto or other forms of unsecured consumer debt? I mean this affordability push, which by the way he called a hoax a few weeks ago now appears to be quite real.
- [35:19]
Jim Cramer
Well, look, actually a firm buy, not pay later. They lend. Excellent. They don't really have a problem with this. They don't do this stuff.
- [35:26]
David Faber
Yeah, no, they're seen as a beneficiary. We should point out of this, they are beneficiary.
- [35:30]
Jim Cramer
Stock was at 4 points early. Yeah, stocks up 4 points. Points. It's at 5:30. I do think, Carl, that, I don't think it's wrong to say that it becomes a real issue as a board level issue that perhaps we have to take a stand on the president. Look, with the law firms that rolled over, I think they probably regret it, but they really, those were, those guys really, those guys just, you know, they, it was like they, you know, all agreed that they should take the dive. They took a big dive. I don't know how they feel about taking a, to dive now. I think we'll look back and think that they were the guys who when Senator McCarthy called said, yeah, whatever you say. Whatever you say.
- [36:07]
David Faber
Well that's, that's interesting. When do you take a stand and put yourself firmly in opposition to the administration?
- [36:12]
Jim Cramer
Given when you don't want to go to jail.
- [36:14]
David Faber
You have a fiduciary duty to your shareholders though, and it's a very difficult road to walk. I mean we, come on, you and I have those conversations off the record with many leaders of, of corporations and it is a very. How do I become critical or when do I really take a stand in opposition, given I have a responsibility to my shareholders. And that responsibility may entail toeing the line, doing what I have to do in order to not run afoul this administration so that I can continue to create shareholder value?
- [36:45]
Jim Cramer
Well, what would have happened in Paul Weiss if they decided that, you know what.
- [36:48]
David Faber
Yeah, we're going to fight.
- [36:49]
Jim Cramer
We're going to, we're going to fight. Does do the people who are involved with corporate leave and take their customers with Them. Of course they do.
- [36:56]
David Faber
That's why that was that was the key question you're pointing out. Of course one of the key most you know very influential law firms that was first in the sights of the administration when they when they went after the law firms in a significant way and really with the executive order basically would have very significantly restricted their ability to do business. A number of the other firms, the Washington based firms obviously did take them to court. Jim. Not the case with the more corporate commercial New York based firms. To your point.
- [37:30]
Jim Cramer
I think they regret it.
- [37:31]
David Faber
You do you think they regret it? Well you know it's hard to say. Their business continues to be strong and by the way we're looking at a stock market that is not really reacting in the sense of what I mean in the last what few days it was also was banning institutional ownership of of homes. Again these are not necessarily bad policies. There's plenty of people who could argue yet no has distorted the market in some way putting a cap on credit cards the wagely indicting the Fed chair. What am I missing?
- [38:01]
Carl Quintanilla
Defense credit cards on capital returns.
- [38:06]
David Faber
Right.
- [38:06]
Carl Quintanilla
On executive compensation compensation Obviously the push for CapEx among oil push for CapEx.
- [38:11]
David Faber
Now we're into pricing and then pricing and then obviously also saying that Darren woods is playing it too cute and indicating that Exxon may not have a role to play if there is a rebuilding of Venezuela as oil infrastructure.
- [38:22]
Jim Cramer
Well the only thing that is really negative would be if you got rid of if you put a cap on and then the banks decide you know what we're going to pull back another one that's the only thing that could hurt the economy. All these other things are a little peripheral. The others are personal. I just fed Chief Powell. Should he go to jail because there are overruns at a building when he's not really in charge of that. Well I think. I think we would think that seems excessive.
- [38:48]
Carl Quintanilla
Right.
- [38:48]
David Faber
Yeah. Jail time. I know and by the way it is important this is not jail, Ben. Yeah we should remember jail alleging fraud. They haven't brought the charges to be fair. It's just right just subpoenas grand jury.
- [39:03]
Jim Cramer
Agree with the prosecution.
- [39:06]
Carl Quintanilla
Sometimes Often the broader question to Jim is about what all this uncertainty does to consumer mindset especially given this piece in the Journal about the job market over the weekend arguing that 2025 in their words brought a swift end to the best job market in a generation. We're getting some retail guidance. I'm looking at an F2 today and a year down 8 to 18%.
- [39:32]
Jim Cramer
It'S interesting you mentioned that because ANF is the cohort that maybe can't find jobs. A lot of those people are in school Hollister very young stuff. I do think that there's a belief that jobs are getting harder and harder to come by, but I don't think that's the president. President wants a booming economy, David I think AI is still making people think, you know, do I really can I get a job or is I better than I am? I'm going to listen to Jensen Huang tonight. He has to talk with David Ricks at the health care conference. Now he never he talks about how we could have a job explosion obviously because it's the fourth industrial revolution. But right now the explosion doesn't seem to be happening. David seems to invade is up today. I don't know Again, I think tech's going to be up because today is not the day when the president picks on tech, right?
- [40:15]
David Faber
No. And listen again we will entertain this question endlessly because it's such an important one in terms of the impact of AI on the overall job market and the willingness of employers to hire whether it is going to mitigate their their needs for new employees, not necessarily result in layoffs, but simply a lack of new hiring as they see current employees with the tools of AI are able to do more and be more efficient. It's a key question, Jim and then it becomes a key question as well for the return on invested capital story as we start to see perhaps some impact in the enterprise from AI in a positive way in terms of productivity.
- [40:53]
Jim Cramer
I think that does happen. I do want to point out that I think matters should be up, not down because the stock that was most punished because Zuckerberg seemed to be going alone, particularly on the energy project, the nuclear project. I think Jim Powell was very good. Now McCormick, the senator's wife, very good at her sovereign wealth initiatives at Goldman were probably the strongest. We should remember that this stock was in the seven hundreds. When Mark Zuckerberg said we've got to spend a lot more, he has not had anyone to lean back on. That stock will be up by the end of the day. If there's any sort of a thought process going on. I mean Carl, I think that most of my health care behind the scenes is how the President managed to be able to get prices lower for drugs. Doing a direct way it has worked. I mean David mentioned something interesting call which is that a lot of these things are good. It's just that they're not done in the way we're Used to. They're not done in negotiation, not done jobbing. They're done by going to the press saying you're going to go after these guys and then these people thinking, you know what, what happens when my spouse, my partner is in the supermarket and they think, you know what? My husband, my wife is a villain because I heard it on the news. And all you do as an executive is hope that he doesn't post your address.
- [42:08]
David Faber
Yeah, well, the, the typical route would be legislation, wouldn't it? And laws.
- [42:14]
Jim Cramer
Oh yeah, Congress. What you mean like the old way? Yeah, the old checks and balances thing. Well, I mean, what are you kidding me? That left.
- [42:24]
Carl Quintanilla
Yeah. Just why is Jim, the Sell America trademark is getting so much play today where you say this debasement idea where you short the dollar and go long gold. I mean, I don't know. You want to compare the South Korea ETF to the S and P year to date. I mean it's not much of a contest.
- [42:41]
Jim Cramer
South Korea, South Korea. Very pro, very pro capitalism. I don't see a lot of, of negative capitalism there.
- [42:50]
David Faber
I mean they have their own issues, a demographic one for certain, but they also have a lot of companies that make memory chips. Right, that's helpful.
- [42:58]
Jim Cramer
Yeah, sure. And look at ours that make memories A little Lamb Research and Applied Materials Upgrade. Someone upgrades it. Now what were they thinking? It's been up forever. Kla. Really, really terrific. But you know, look for other areas where the President is not after them. Consumer products not after. Right. Maybe that could be good. And it's so inconsistent. I mean, Carl, at 345 we find that Lockheed Martin is not allowed to have dividends, but it's 359. We find that the budget is going to go up 50%. You got to buy Lockheed Martin. Did anyone know that, by the way? That would always be interesting to see that. But I just point out that if you don't think about what the President's going to do before you buy, he's more important than Goldman Sachs.
- [43:43]
Carl Quintanilla
Speaking of which, Jim, do you think any of the credit card we'll call it noise for now is going to interfere with the results we begin to get tomorrow?
- [43:53]
Jim Cramer
Well, I think everyone's going to have to address it. I do think that the President will call everybody and he likes calling everybody and I think he'll berate them. I think that they're going to say, look, we are happy to wait for legislation says that we have to cut them. We're absolutely going to do that. And that's What I think they'll do, they'll say, Listen, Mr. President, if the Congress wants rates to go down, we think it's going to be bad for consumer lending. It could cause a crash in the stock market, could cause a dramatic decline in spending. And if Congress says, you know what, we got to do this because it is Congress's job, then we will. But that's not the way that we do things. David, all the Goldman Sachs got rid of the credit card and it's down.
- [44:35]
David Faber
Shares of Goldman. Yeah, they're barely down though. What happened to the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau? What happened to that thing? Well then gone. Now it's still around in name only.
- [44:46]
Carl Quintanilla
Defunded.
- [44:47]
David Faber
Defunded, Yeah. I think then isn't that what like. Right. That would have been on this thing about credit card rates.
- [44:53]
Jim Cramer
Well look, if you, look, people shouldn't have to pay that much. But it's very clear, look, if you default or if you relate payments, it does happen. Now we could all say, you know what, late payments, those people should be equal to the people who, who pay on time. But Carl, the problem is is that that's the case. Why would J.P. morgan, Capital One, Wells Fargo, why would they issue something that we know is going to hurt them? I think the board of directors would say all right, we got to get out of that business. And then the consumer would have a hard time getting credit. It's a long process. Maybe it would be over after the President's terms finish. But some of these things, you got to wait it out, hope for different president.
- [45:30]
Carl Quintanilla
Yeah, no, that is, that is, I want to wait in the darker pools of financing.
- [45:34]
David Faber
Wait, yeah, wait, it does.
- [45:36]
Jim Cramer
So it does look a pound of, a pound of flesh. They'll have their earnings.
- [45:43]
Carl Quintanilla
Jim. We'll watch bonds today as we're off the opening lows in stocks. A lot of stuff's coming our way tomorrow. Cpi, retail sales, some Fed speech. We get Barkin and Williams today along with Bostic around noon. Stay with us. Lot of year end targets for gold getting approached here pretty quickly. We got to 4617 this morning. Gold's now on pace to outperform the S and p for the sixth month in a row, which we've not done since 2008, 2009. We will get stock trading with Jim in just a minute. Let's get a West coast version of stock trading.
- [46:18]
Jim Cramer
You know, Apple's been a big disappointer since the year began. And the reason is, frankly is people thought the services were coming down that Literally the numbers would be too high for Apple because of that. I just booked Eddie Q. Obviously very important number two at Apple and it's just the opposite. Services are incredibly strong, much stronger than people expect. All the people who thought that that was not the case are dead wrong. I think the numbers would come up. They can't do that yet. And Eddie Austin told me, look, Gemini is the winner. It looks like that Apple foundation models can be built on Gemini. There are a lot of people who felt that who is maybe they're going to do a fair look. They did. They did a fair look and they decided Google is the best. So it's really fabulous for Gemini and I would argue it is also really good for Apple.
- [47:01]
Carl Quintanilla
Yeah, a lot of discussion in the memo about Apple pay, Apple news, Apple icloud all better apps and Apple tv. Jim, where studio got some love of the Golden Globes last night.
- [47:14]
Jim Cramer
Yes, those businesses are all better than expected now. Services fantastic gross margins and Apple should be up. The fact that Alphabet's down is just plain stupid. That's been a big winner all morning. So I just say those are two places to go if you want to make some money. Eddie Q. Very optimistic. To me it seems like the numbers are just plain too low and the people who have been selling it are dead wrong. You want to own Apple, not traded. It's been the right thing to do. It'll be the right thing to do today.
- [47:41]
Carl Quintanilla
Yeah, people watching the Globes over the weekend and some NFL playoffs. Jim, we were thinking about you.
- [47:48]
Jim Cramer
Why'd you mention that?
- [47:50]
Carl Quintanilla
Had to mention to get on the.
- [47:51]
David Faber
Record at least once more.
- [47:53]
Jim Cramer
The morning was good. I was going to talk about the fact I have Medtronic on today. I've got blco, I've got Novo, I've got Pfizer. Yeah, the Eagles that I knew to come out here. I managed to miss the game. First playoff I've ever missed. Was probably well timed and we're never going to mention him again.
- [48:14]
Carl Quintanilla
It would have been tough to be at the link last night as you pointed out, Jim, look forward to it ever made.
- [48:20]
Jim Cramer
Thank you guys. Thank you.
- [48:23]
Carl Quintanilla
Jim Cramer, Mad Money 6:00pm Eastern Time tonight as we are still off the lows. Dows down 187. You've been listening to the opening bell on CNBC. Squawk on the Street.
- [48:33]
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- [49:10]
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David Faber
Mmm. Now that's pretty good.
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