Doing the Math in DC: Senators Thom Tillis & Elizabeth Warren 6/3/26

Summary

Squawk Pod – “Doing the Math in DC”: Senators Thom Tillis & Elizabeth Warren (June 3, 2026)

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Episode Overview

Direct from Capitol Hill, today’s Squawk Pod delivers a dynamic, bipartisan conversation with Senators Thom Tillis (R-NC, retiring) and Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) inside the Senate Banking Committee room. The episode explores high-stakes D.C. headlines—from controversial presidential appointments and trillion-dollar tax proposals, to the impact of AI on jobs, and how both parties envision tax policy in an era of growing deficits, technological disruption, and social change. Hosted by Joe Kernen, Becky Quick, and Andrew Ross Sorkin, the conversation pulls no punches, offering rare candor on legislative math, party loyalty, and the deep divides shaping America’s political and economic future.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Presidential Appointments & Senate Confirmation Drama

• Bill Pulte as Acting Director of National Intelligence
  • Tillis’ Take: “Whoever these people are in the White House need to get the hell out of the White House. I am tired of amateur hour.” (15:27)
    • Tillis argues Pulte has “no qualifications: no experience in intelligence, no geopolitical experience,” and predicts, “he doesn’t have a prayer being confirmed by the U.S. Senate.” (19:24, 21:42)
    • Critiques the White House for not “doing the math” on Senate votes: “They should know that the math just works against Pulte being confirmed.” (21:59)
  • Warren’s Take: “Someone who has demonstrated that he is willing to use personal information to weaponize it against the perceived enemies of the President...should [not] be in charge of the deepest secrets in the United States. I don't think so. And I don't think anybody's going to go for that.” (37:08)
• Todd Blanche as Attorney General Nominee
  • Tillis praises Blanche’s role in previous nominations but remains vigilant on January 6th issues: “I’m just binary when it comes to any January 6th equivocation... That’s a circuit breaker for me.” (18:17)
  • Warren slams the choice, referencing alleged “special deals” for Trump: “The guy who just cut the deal to say that the President...will never have to answer for however he or anyone in his family may have cheated on taxes… I don't think so. I think that's a pretty bad idea.” (38:03)

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2. Party Math, Loyalty, and Political Candor

• Tillis’ Outspokenness & Departure
  • Acknowledges that as a retiring senator, he can speak more freely, but insists he’s always challenged institutions: “I have been bucking institutions since I’ve been in elected politics…I’ve disagreed with the President on the Mueller bill…do your homework.” (22:43)
  • Criticizes colleagues who stay silent to avoid primaries: “Anybody here...after you get enough votes to hold something, why would you run up the score and potentially expose people who may want to run again?” (24:41)
  • Urges competent White House staffing: “People in the White House need to understand that their actions are the single greatest threat to us keeping a majority in November… I'm going to hold them accountable. And no, I’m not going to rubber stamp any noms I think are not good for the president long term, no matter how he may feel.” (25:10-26:29)
• Party Strategy
  • Discusses President trump's involvement in Senate races (e.g., Paxton vs. Cornyn in Texas): “You want to make that choice? Fine. Now own it. Because I want to see Collins, Sullivan, Husted…who need our resources to get it.” (26:36)

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3. Technology Disruption & Tax Policy

A. AI Disruption & Taxing Big Tech

• Warren on AI Taxation:
  • “Now is the moment to get ahead of that, to get started on our response...let’s make sure that those who are getting the profits from this are also helping cushion the disruption. So I’ve proposed, for example, an excise tax on the data centers themselves.” (33:11-34:20)
  • Argues for urgent action due to threats of job losses and societal disruption.
  • Dismisses voluntary compliance as wishful thinking: “These guys are not voluntarily going to say, oh, we will cut our profits... This is where power lies, but only if we pick it up and use it.” (40:28)
• Debate on Economic Impact:
  • Hosts express concern that taxing innovation could hinder American competitiveness, especially versus China.
  • Warren argues that American-made chips and intellectual property are already at risk of strategic export to China: “I am concerned, but I’m concerned right now with the fact that the Chinese, in effect, buy our stuff, and American companies make a profit doing that. But it certainly undermines our long-term security...” (36:00-36:38)

B. Wealth Tax, the Debt, and Fairness

• Warren’s Wealth Tax Proposal:
  • Encourages a 2% annual tax on fortunes above $50 million: “Your first 50 million in wealth is free and clear. Your 50 millionth and first dollar you have to pay a 2 cent tax on.” (49:02)
  • Justifies with rhetoric of fairness and the public good: “You built that wealth...using a workforce all of us helped educate...using roads and bridges all of us helped build...protected by police and firefighters and army... All we’re asking in return, 2 cents on that wealth so that we can help stabilize this country…” (50:18-51:20)
  • Responds to critique: “Can I just invert that question... Is there ever a point where you will stop cutting taxes for billionaires? Because that is exactly why we have this dislocation.” (43:10)
• Host Skepticism:
  • Hosts question whether the wealth tax would ever truly be enough to cover deficits and social spending, raising issues of diminishing returns and complexity of enforcement.
  • Warren insists the tax base is growing, not shrinking: “Between the time I ran for president in 2019 and now, the amount of revenue that a 2 cent wealth tax would produce doubled.” (49:33)

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4. Other Economic Headlines & Policy Issues

• GLP1 Weight Loss Drug Coverage
  • Discussion on Cigna dropping coverage due to runaway costs—public agencies cutting teachers and staff to afford drugs, causing ripple effects on education budgets and taxes.
  • “If you look at government levels at Medicare, they are now talking about health care costs being up 30% year over year instead of up 5%.” (10:53)
• Export Controls & Economic Security
  • Warren criticizes American tech firms profiting from sales to China that may undermine US national security (36:00-36:40).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tillis: On White House Staffing and Nomination Math
  • “Fifth grade math. Third grade math is all you need to do to count votes around here, folks...what people in the White House need to do is maybe go back and dust off that third grade math book and start figuring out how you get 51 votes.” (23:40)
• Warren: On Wealth and Shared Contribution
  • “Jeff Bezos knows how to work the system, but the problem is for hundreds of millions of Americans, they don't get to work the system.” (43:56)
  • “A 2 cent wealth tax just says, come on, look what you've gotten in this country. How do you think you built that wealth?” (50:18)
• Tillis: On Paxton Endorsement
  • “If the President wants Paxton then do the work to get him elected.” (26:36)
• Warren: On Voluntary Regulation
  • “These guys are not voluntarily going to say, oh, we will cut our profits... This is where power lies, but only if we pick it up and use it.” (40:28)
• Hosts on AI’s Threat to Labor
  • Joe Kernen: “We don’t want China getting ahead. We want a free market approach to this. But then at the same time you’re thinking, this is really powerful.” (04:07)
  • Becky Quick: “I don’t want to be a Luddite… but I think...this is going to be not the same as previous disruptions.” (38:45)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:27 – 01:39]: Blunt opening—Tillis and Warren’s no-filter approach introduced.
• [02:55 – 04:25]: White House tariffs, AI executive order, and questions about voluntary compliance.
• [09:06 – 11:31]: Cigna news and GLP1 drugs' fiscal impact on public sector budgets.
• [15:27 – 15:53]: Senator Tillis explodes about “amateur hour” White House staffing.
• [17:40 – 29:07]: In-depth interview with Senator Thom Tillis—Senate math, Pulte, Blanche, party strategy, moderate vs. hard-right candidates.
• [30:09 – 51:20]: In-depth interview with Senator Elizabeth Warren—AI taxation, executive order skepticism, chips and China, Pulte, wealth tax, fairness and economic math.

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Tone & Language

• Tillis: Candid, impassioned, and at times sarcastic; freely calls out his own party’s missteps and White House “amateur hour.”
• Warren: Fervent, folksy when explaining fairness and the public interest; unwavering in her criticism of tax loopholes and defense of redistribution.
• Hosts: Probing, sometimes playful (ribbing each other about the “effing crazy” label), but forceful in challenging both guests.
• Memorable Exchange: When Warren lays out her wealth tax proposal, Becky Quick retorts, “For philosophically, I think it’s a pretty big deal.” (49:04)

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Conclusion

This episode of Squawk Pod offers a rare, up-close look at the fierce debates playing out behind Capitol Hill’s closed doors: who controls America’s secrets, who pays for America’s future, and how much candor is safe in a hyper-polarized era. With pointed exchanges and political math laid bare, it’s an essential primer on Washington’s latest power struggles—leaving listeners with a clear sense of what’s driving headlines, and why compromise is as elusive as ever.

Transcript

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[Joe Kernen]

Bring in Show Music please.

[Narrator/Host]

This is Squawkpod and I'm CNBC producer Cameron Costa. On today's episode, we are squawking on Capitol Hill. Two very outspoken lawmakers, two political parties and one Senate Banking Committee.

[Joe Kernen]

This is like the firing line.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yes, sir.

[Becky Quick]

That's what happens in this town.

[Narrator/Host]

I think Republican Senator Thom Tillis gearing up for retirement holds nothing back.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

Whoever these people are in the White House need to get the hell out of the White House. I am tired of amateur hour.

[Narrator/Host]

And Democrat Senator Elizabeth Warren, well, she's not retiring, but she doesn't hold back either.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Jeff Bezos knows how to work the system, but the problem is for hundreds of millions of Americans, they don't get to work the system.

[Narrator/Host]

Each lawmaker responds to the biggest D.C. headlines like Bill Pulte named as Acting Director of National Intelligence.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Someone like that should be in charge of the deepest secrets in the United States. I don't think so and I don't think anybody's going to go for that.

[Narrator/Host]

She could be right.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

I don't think he has a prayer being confirmed by the U.S. senate.

[Narrator/Host]

AI taxes, wealth, taxes, presidential appointments, and so much more.

[Becky Quick]

We may start one place, we have no idea by the end of the day.

[Narrator/Host]

It is Wednesday, June 3, and Squawk Pod begins right now.

[Joe Kernen]

Stand Becky by in 3, 2, 1 here please.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Good morning, everybody and welcome to Squawk Box right here on CNBC. We are live from Washington, D.C. where we are on Capitol Hill today. We are coming to you from the Senate Banking Committee room. And guys, we are here because Washington, D.C. is the one that sets the rules and regulations for American business and determines the fortunes for Wall Street. And we are going to be hearing STR straight from the sources themselves about changes that could be coming both for investors and for American business.

[Becky Quick]

The Trump administration is proposing some new tariffs on at least 10% on 60 trading partners. U.S. trade Representative Jameson Greer, citing a failure by the countries including China, India, Japan and South Korea to ban goods with forced labor. It would also apply to imports from Canada, Mexico, the EU and the uk. And President Trump signed an executive order yesterday asking companies to provide models to the federal government to assess their capabilities ahead of a full release. Participation in the so called benchmarking process would be voluntary. The order was light on specific details. The President signed it in private just weeks after he postponed a signing ceremony with prominent tech CEOs saying he didn't like certain aspects of the order. There's a couple of little modifications. David Sacks. Yes, David Sachs. He signed off on this latest.

[Joe Kernen]

Well, the voluntary piece is the sort of crucial difference, difference between where they were a couple weeks ago and where they are now.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And the questions are how much pressure comes with that voluntary status on that. If you don't do it, what are the end results? What are the repercussions if you don't go along with that?

[Becky Quick]

Remember when we got the news a couple of weeks ago that he delayed. It was like, we don't know how to feel. I was, okay, good, because we don't want to lose. We want to, you know, we don't want to. We don't want China getting ahead. We want a free market approach to this. But then at the same time you're thinking, this is really powerful.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And if it's the equivalent of nuclear weapons, do you want absolutely no regulation and no guidelines on any of that?

[Joe Kernen]

We did a panel yesterday at the CBC CEO Summit that I was a participant in with two professors, one of whom has been studying what could happen down the line and really sort of

[Becky Quick]

think how far down.

[Joe Kernen]

That basically says it. I mean, life all ends in death anyway. But that this is all headed to a terrible, terrible, terrible place. I mean, really talks about AI developing its own sense of thinking. Ultimately, therefore getting into robotics. The robots started to build factories on our behalf. At some point, the robots don't really care about us anymore because they care about themselves. Yeah, you could stop Elon Musk. It sounds like Terminator, but it was, it was sort of articulated in a way where, where a room of CEOs I think was going, oh my.

[Becky Quick]

I mean, we've have. When was iRobot?

[Joe Kernen]

So that might be now.

[Becky Quick]

We've had, we've had decades to figure to worry about this and.

[Joe Kernen]

Yes, but I think we're prob. Probably, I don't know, 10, 20, 30 years from this kind of sort of super apocalyptic kind of concept.

[Becky Quick]

Oh, good. Well, that's good.

[Joe Kernen]

So you got a little bit of time.

[Becky Quick]

I got a little bit of time.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But your kids.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah, exactly. We saw what happened with Hal. I mean, it just is one example. I mean, that guy's still somewhere in Dave. Is that Dave or one of them still flipping over and over forever, headed out into deep space.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It's all things that we can talk to these senators about.

[Becky Quick]

Today, President Trump says that he called Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, confirming that he called Netanyahu effing crazy. I don't think he said effing. I think we're paraphrasing. I think he said it full on. In a phone call on Monday, he made the comment on the Pod Force One podcast with the New York Post that was just published. Trump said he was a little bit perturbed at Netanyahu's constantly fighting with Lebanon. He later said he likes Netanyahu, has worked very well with him and called himself. They worked together well as a wartime president and a wartime prime minister. I'm trying to think about whether you called me that yesterday, specifically yesterday, or

[Joe Kernen]

just last this morning.

[Becky Quick]

You have said those exact words, I think.

[Joe Kernen]

I mean, I don't know about those words. It's time now for the Executive Edge, I think it was. Update now. Veteran 60 Minutes correspondent Scott Pelley, fired by CBS News this after a day where he blasted its editor in chief, Barry Weiss and the new executive producer Nick Bilton during a staff meeting on Monday. Pelly accused Weiss of, quote, murdering the show and questioned Bilton's qualifications for the role. Reports say that Bilton sent a letter to Peli telling him he was being terminated for cause effective immediately. In a lengthy statement that was obtained by several media outlets, Pelly accused management and CBS News, which is owned by Paramount Skydance, of incompetence and unprofessionalism. And on Bilton effectively said this was insubordination in the context of this meeting, which he argued that Scott Kelly had

[Becky Quick]

succinct summary of his feelings that I saw all over.

[Joe Kernen]

Had he had argued he had hijacked the meeting. Yeah, the interesting part now is you have this program in 60 minutes which makes 200 plus million dollars a year. It is a extraordinary franchise, iconic in the news business. And the question is in terms of who the talent is on the air,

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I think there's only three correspondent.

[Joe Kernen]

I think there's three correspondents left. It's whether they stay, they may not stay with the program, the producers, whether the producers stay. Most of the producers, a number of producers of the senior producers have already left. And so then the question becomes what is this for you, this show? What the value of the program I don't think comes.

[Becky Quick]

When I think of 60 Minutes, I don't think of Scott Pelle. I think of all the other great names that are on there historically.

[Joe Kernen]

Mike Wallace.

[Becky Quick]

Mike Wallace, Morley Safer, Ed Bradley. Just go down the list. When I think of producers, I think of Don Hewitt or I don't think of I think this show will be now squawk box is a different story. Obviously that was my takeaway.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You can get fired for cause.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Disagree.

[Becky Quick]

I need to distinguish between those two. But I think 60 Minutes will the show will go on hopefully. Maybe better. Maybe better.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Health insurer Cigna says that it will stop covering GLP1 weight loss drugs in its employee health plan. That is according to an email to employees on Monday that said that the change is effective July 1. The company noted noted that those currently using the medications can choose to either pay for the drugs with cash themselves through the manufacturing sites or through Trump Rx. The company said that it remains committed to supporting its employees health through a range of wage management programs and resources. But guys, this is an issue when you have the insurance company itself saying it's not going to support it anymore. If you're looking at public budgets at schools at places all over the country, town towns and cities, their budgets are blowing up. These drugs cost so much more than anticipated and now more people are uptaking the drugs and it's going all the way up to the Medicare Medicaid.

[Joe Kernen]

Question though had always been whether the GOP drugs were going to prevent so many other down the line costs and so that if you were spending $150 a month or whatever it is that you wouldn't be spending money on cholesterol drugs. You wouldn't be spending money on you know, all sorts of other benefits.

[Becky Quick]

Diabetes signal benefit from that down the road. That's the thing.

[Joe Kernen]

Arguably the entire point of the of new drugs like this is that long term I know you shouldn't have to have to pay for people hospitals. The short term down the line is

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

so awful that right now they are

[Becky Quick]

firing term for Cigna. They keep doing may be short termism

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

but it doesn't matter. The problem is the short term implications are great and if you look at it how it's to going. Playing out in the, in the public sector, in schools. I mean, I know that at one school I know of, they just fired several of the art and other activities teachers because the costs were so much greater that they can't. They had to get rid of everybody for all the specials that go on these things.

[Joe Kernen]

Because they were taking these medicines?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

No, because the school's budget has gone so far overboard because there are more people taking these medications than had ever been anticipated. If you look at the government levels at Medicare, they are now talking about health care costs being up 30% year over year instead of up 5%. And the immediate result is you have to find places to cut. So long term, this may be in fact a cost saving effort, but in the meantime, I'm watching it playing out in school levels all over North Jersey right now where people are being fired. Teachers or aides or special services. They're now going to look for contractors for some of these positions because they cannot afford to continue to pay for the health care services that are so

[Elizabeth Warren]

far out of line.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And then you're going, your, your property taxes are going to go up significantly as a result.

[Becky Quick]

I know Westwood just did this when they told all the employees, they just went, oh, well, I don't know. Maybe I'll pay for. Maybe I won't because you're convinced that the glp. Maybe I'll stay on them. Maybe I won't because you think it

[Elizabeth Warren]

takes enthusiasm for life.

[Becky Quick]

You don't want anything. You have no joy. You have no joy left. It's called the meh.

[Joe Kernen]

I honestly think you're misrepresented. You know what you gotta take, you gotta take them. I'm gonna take it.

[Becky Quick]

I want you to.

[Joe Kernen]

I'm gonna take it just to be the guinea pig. So I can tell you I want do that. But I think you're so wrong. About what?

[Becky Quick]

Tell me what you really think. You think I'm effing crazy?

[Joe Kernen]

Go ahead. I do. On this, on this score. I do. Because we know so many people who are now taking these medications.

[Becky Quick]

I know.

[Joe Kernen]

Who, you know, seem to love life and enjoy food.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Long term implications I think are great, but there is some real friction in short term and what this means for budgets.

[Becky Quick]

I want to love going to Taco Bell. That's my hope. My hope. I think you can take that away from me.

[Joe Kernen]

Yeah. I don't think it's going to change your love for Taco Bell. It's going to prevent you from eating the 5th and 6th, 6th and 7th taco

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

President Trump saying that acting Attorney General Todd Blanch will become the permanent attorney general. The president making those comments in a podcast interview. And our Emily Wilkins is here. She's got more on that right now. Emily, good morning.

[Emily Wilkins]

Good morning, guys. Well, yeah, I mean, obviously this is now going to be coming in front of the Senate trying to figure out as far as getting Todd Blanche in there, getting him confirmed. And of course, this comes the day after Blanche told lawmakers that he was not going to be moving forward with that $1.8 billion so called weaponization fund for alleged victims of government weaponization. Although it's notable because even after that, Todd Blanche told lawmakers that you are still seeing some lawmakers who have serious concerns about this weaponization fund, that they do need to do more to block it. Yesterday, of course, we had the CNBC CEO council spoke a little bit with Senator Bill Cassidy who said that he had concerns. He wasn't convinced yet that the fund was fully going to be blocked. John Cornyn actually just out with a tweet this morning saying that he, they need to kind of stick a stake in the fund, making sure it can't go forward. And of course, this could all get wrapped up if we see the Senate begin to vote today on this larger effort to pass $70 billion in funding for ICE and Customs and Border Patrol. And this, this could wind up becoming a thing that potentially divides Republicans. And of course, it's one of several issues that Republicans are grappling with right now when it comes to exactly how they're going to stay unified on a couple of controversial issues.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So that's, I mean, they're basically telling you they don't believe him when he says the weaponization fund is going away.

[Emily Wilkins]

Is that a couple of them? Yeah, they really want to make sure that there's stronger language in there and they feel like they have the power of the purse and they just want to make sure that's not the case. Of course, number of other Republican senators say, look, we understand why there's a weaponization fund. We're sympathetic to some of the individuals who have been impacted by various government investigations. We want to make sure that we are providing something for them. At the same point, given gas prices, given inflation, spending $1.8 billion is not kind of with the mood that they want to set.

[Becky Quick]

And you know, you heard the names. What do they have in common? You got, you got Cornyn, you got Tillis, you got, you didn't say Till. It's the Corn, Untillist Cassidy. And you could say are they at this point, are they free to vote their conscience? They don't have to worry about President Trump. Or are they? Or do they have an ax to grind at this point? They're PO'd because all three could be

[Joe Kernen]

a little bit of both.

[Becky Quick]

Three of them are none of them. Those guys, we're not gonna be saying their names in the next session.

[Emily Wilkins]

And of course, the big question is, is that as Trump has other priorities that he wants to get done, when does that block come out? Because it only takes four, right?

[Joe Kernen]

And we'll take you.

[Emily Wilkins]

Thank you, guys.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

Cheese will be next.

[Narrator/Host]

Coming up on Squawk Pod, some fighting words over President Trump's pick. Bill Pulte for acting Director of National Intelligence.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

Whoever told the president to go ahead and commit to this publicly before vetting it should lose their jobs because they should know that the math just works against Pulte being confirmed. Whoever these people are in the White House need to get the hell out of the White House. I am tired of amateur hour.

[Narrator/Host]

A no holds barred, very candid conversation with Republican Senator Thom Tillis. That's when Squawkpod returns.

[Joe Kernen]

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[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Joining us right now to talk about what's happening in Washington, how that impacts business and beyond is Republican Senator Tom Tillis. He, of course, is from North Carolina. He serves on the Banking Committee, the Finance Committee and the Judiciary Committee. And Senator, there are a lot of things happening in all of those committees that we've been seeing headlines on today.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

Thanks for having me.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Thanks for being here. We appreciate it. Maybe we should start with your perspective of judiciary what's happening and then Attorney general news that we've gotten today that Todd Blanch is going to be the president's pick for permanent attorney general.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

Well, Todd's a, Todd's a good guy. He was, I think, a very important figure in us trying to get an off ramp for the Warsh nomination. And I think he showed great leadership there. He's going to have to overcome some serious questions in the Judiciary Committee. You know me, I'm just binary when it comes to any January 6th equivocation to this point, I don't see anything. But we'll be digging into the record to make sure that under no circumstances that he condoned the events of January 6th. That's a circuit breaker for me. It's not a matter of navigating into the gray. I think Scott did a good job yesterday of indicating that this bogus payout pot is gone.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The anti weaponization.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

Yeah, I think that that was absurd. It was timing and politically tone deaf. And there is a way for people who have been inappropriately prosecuted to seek restitution. They should use those channels if we need to plus that up or make it easier to do, fine. But creating this, that fund was a bad idea. I'm glad that Todd distanced himself from it, but we got more work to do.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Bill Pulte yesterday, I don't think he

[Senator Thom Tillis]

has a prayer being confirmed by the U.S. senate.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

How long can he be acting?

[Becky Quick]

That's the question.

[Joe Kernen]

Don't know.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

You know, the Biden administration created a way for people to be acting for almost ever. So it is very possible that Pulte could be enacting DNI and work in his current position.

[Becky Quick]

How do you do it?

[Senator Thom Tillis]

You don't. I mean, well. But you know, to be honest with you, how do you do a job? You have no qualifications.

[Joe Kernen]

No.

[Becky Quick]

I just wonder what are the recess or how did Biden get.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

Oh, Biden, they just, they recycle. It's sort of. They'll go to the letter of the law. But there is a way that they could keep them in that position. But, look, it's bad optics. Number one, Pulte is an attack dog. I mean, the guy got removed from his family board the moment the family no longer owned 51% of the family board. He goes on to criticize his grandfather's wife about insider trading, and then he goes on to make a tax statement, so much so that his father and aunt disavowed him having any association with their family trust. Why do I bring that up? I bring it up because it suggests a temperament that's probably not right for the DNI role. If anything, I'd like to see the whole department scrapped. It came in after 9, 11, because we had serious lapses. But, my gosh, a quarter century later, we haven't figured out how to connect all these intelligence agents.

[Becky Quick]

I told Gabbard, a director of directors.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

I told Gabbard. I said, look, I would vote for you in a minute. I ended up voting for it, but I'd vote for you in a heartbeat if you said that your objective is to eliminate this additional government agency. We're all talking about doge. This is a duplicative agency that should go away. So maybe Pulte could get my vote if he said his goal was to eliminate the agency. But, look, I'm sure he seems to be doing okay in the current role. I don't believe he's ever had a security clearance. He clearly has no experience in intelligence. He has no geopolitical experience, no international connections, the sorts of things you would look for. He's a far cry from Dan Coats, but he's got a structural problem. He Simply doesn't have 51 votes on the Senate floor, and he may not even have the votes at Intel Committee. And we just need to tell the President that clearly. Now, we'll also tell you whoever told the President to go ahead and commit to this publicly before vetting it should lose their jobs because they should know that the math just works against Pulte being confirmed.

[Becky Quick]

Someone could have told the President that.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

What's that?

[Becky Quick]

Someone could have told the President that, and it still happened.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

That may be true, but then it's on the President. But hopefully somebody was out there saying, look, boss, we've done the math. He doesn't have a path. He may not even have a path through the committee, let alone any one vote.

[Becky Quick]

But they'll do the acting thing. I don't think they care.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

Well, I just. I don't think. I don't think the job will be taken seriously. Radcliffe is the tallest pole in the intelligence tent anyway. I think that's one of the right ways that people rationalize Gabbard for the job. So I suspect it'll just continue to be a non functioning part of the intelligence community.

[Becky Quick]

If he plays that role, does that qualify? Tallest pole in the tent for your one liner or.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I want something a little racier.

[Becky Quick]

You want something a little racier.

[Joe Kernen]

We talked about this briefly in Davos when it was clear that you weren't going to be running again. But you are clearly outspoken. You are. You are speaking your mind. I think you're speaking your conscience. You were debating whether it was your conscience or whether it was retribution or something else.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

You know, here's the first thing. I'll give you all a pass because I wouldn't expect you to have watched me back when I was in the legislature. But guys, I have been bucking institutions since I've been in elected politics. I ran against the two term Republicans, Republican fair haired child for the legislature. I went in third 90 days into my first term and negotiated renewable portfolio standard against the wishes of the majority of Republicans who wanted to run the state into a ditch over bad energy policy. I mean, how many times I've disagreed with the President on the Mueller bill. How many times do I have to go back and tell you all I told them that Gates should be ag. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Do your homework.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I will also say it.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

Those who say it. I'm not accusing you of. I'm just saying those who brought that

[Elizabeth Warren]

conclusion,

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

that you are opposed to everything that the President does, which is bullshit. No, I said you're not. I said you are somebody. You are somebody who. You are somebody who says that. You just mentioned that you'd be in favor of Todd.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

Blanche, I have supported the vast majority of the President's proposals. What I have tried to do is steer the President away from things that I believe are going to damage his legacy and damage his ability to get things through Congress. Fifth grade math. Third grade math is all you need to do to count votes around here, folks. And what people in the White House need to do is maybe go back and dust off that third grade math book and start figuring out how you get 51 votes or how you get 100% of the Republican votes in controversial nom. This is not art. Anybody can do this job on 8 hours of sleep with a modicum of experience. So either these people aren't sleeping or they have no experience.

[Joe Kernen]

Okay, so, but here's the political Question. I think a lot of your peers say a lot of the things that you say privately but don't say publicly because they fear, and by the way, maybe rightly, that they will get primary.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

I don't begrudge them for that. Look, once you get. Who won the super bowl this year?

[Joe Kernen]

Who won the super bowl this year? Now I'm Seattle. Oh, Seattle. Sorry. I'm.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

What was the score?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

A lot to a little.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

Right. Nobody remembers the score. It's a win or loss sort of scenario. Right. But it was a blow. So after you get enough votes to hold something, why would you run up the score and potentially expose people who may want to run again? You know, so the point is, anybody here. We were actually. We were going to talk about the Clarity act when we were in negotiations. I know also Brooks was here. Great person to work with. I had some members on the other side of the aisle that was negotiating. He said, you're not going to get 70 votes if you do that. I said I stopped trying after 60. So if you're telling me I've got to invest this much effort to get a 70th vote, then we're done. We'll deal with it once we get to the floor. People and the administration need to understand math. They need to understand timing. My God, you put forth this restitution fund when we're trying to get Homeland Security funded for three years and you think that's going to go well in the same week. Oh, wait. And then you want to get 702 authorized, that you put an incendiary attack dog like Pulte out on the agenda while we're trying to get 702 authorized. And he would be one of the major users of it. It's like whoever these people are in the White House need to get the hell out of the White House. I am tired of amateur hour. And I've been trying to help the President. I will continue to help the president. And it's not because it's Donald J. Trump. It's because he's a Republican president. I've been a Republican my entire life, and I've worked to get Republicans selected, helped make a majority in 2014. Majorities in Congress are important to me, and members need. And people in the White House need to understand that their actions are the single greatest threat to us keeping a majority in November. And yes, I'm going to hold them accountable. And no, I'm not going to rubber stamp any noms that I think are not good for the president long term, no matter how he may feel about these people personally.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So how did you feel about the President endorsing Paxton over Cornyn? Over some of the other issues that have played out.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

No, I think it was a bad idea. I hope the president will use his resources to pay for the incremental cost of winning Texas now because without corn in there, it's probably about a $200 million premium. And while we're spending money trying to get incumbents reelected, I'd really appreciate the President following through now that he got his nominee through by actually funding an effort that we would not fund it very much had it been corny. It's all about choices. You want to make that choice? Fine. Now own it. Because I want to see Collins, Sullivan, Husted and these other members who need our resources to get it. They needed them before the Paxton decision. The President wants Paxton then do the work to get him elected.

[Becky Quick]

But you're okay with Paxton?

[Senator Thom Tillis]

I couldn't care less about Paxton. I'm not going to be here but the question I do have is how effective of a member he's going to be exposed to.

[Becky Quick]

Background talk about Paxton and the guy in Maine and I don't know if you can say him in the same breath but it seems like a kind of the same corner. Two sides, although one coin is just so beyond the pale that you know, I mean I can, I'm not even going to go with it but. But how is that working? What do you attribute that to on the other side? Just they want power. They want that. They want power and they want that.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

And I expect more elected people talk about well Biden over prosecuted or Dems did that. That is a rationalization for you doing the same abhorrent behavior that you criticize. The American people are ultimately going to elect people that say I am tired of that. I am tired of the political physics. We are going to go by the book. We are going to set an example versus create an example that's even worse than the one that we critical criticized. That's where we are in American politics today. Shame on the Democrats for putting Paxton forward. If the people of Maine or Paxton flood.

[Becky Quick]

Sorry.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

If the people of Maine know what Susan Collins has done for Maine, she should win by 90%. And the Democrats know she is a rock solid member that deserves reelection. But they are just desperate for anything they think that will win regardless of whether it be equality care.

[Becky Quick]

Do you think they know that as it keeps coming out, Senator, don't you think they know that they got to do something with the. Are they going to just go with this guy, right? Well, we'll be able to be able to ask Senator Warren in a moment.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

I actually think that Susan Collins wins that race. Keep in mind she outperformed Trump by 18 points when she was up the last time. Susan Collins is in touch with the voters of Maine. I believe she wins that race. But we're going to have to put resources in there. And like in North Carolina, they say when you learn me, you like me.

[Narrator/Host]

Me.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

The people that don't know Susan Collins will love her when they know what she's done for the state. And when people find out more about her opponent, they're not going to like him very much. And we're going to spend a lot of time and money making sure they got an informed ballot in Maine.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Senator Tellis, thank you for coming. Thank you for always being so refreshing.

[Becky Quick]

Not a North Carolina thing.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

What is this is for the Lumbee tribe actually between the they've been now recognize that the 575th tribe to receive national or federal recognition out of after 137 years of abject racist hatred towards this tribe. So it was great to see the president get that done and I give the president full credit for making it happen.

[Joe Kernen]

Oh, thank you, Senator. Thank you. I just made a bet on the prediction markets that this interview just went viral. So thank you. I appreciate that very, very much.

[Narrator/Host]

Still to come on Squawk pod, more fireworks in the Senate Banking Committee room. The other side of the aisle with Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Your first 50 million in wealth is free and clear. Your 50 millionth and first dollar you have to pay a 2 cent tax on.

[Becky Quick]

Right?

[Elizabeth Warren]

Is that such a big deal?

[Becky Quick]

I mean, do you know how philosophically I think it's pretty big deal.

[Narrator/Host]

Taxes on the wealthy, taxes on AI and much, much more right after this break.

[Joe Kernen]

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[Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Joe Kernen]

Welcome back to SQUAWK Box. Joining us right now is the ranking member of the Banking Committee Center, Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts. We have so many things to talk about, headlines. We will go through the names. We've just been ticking them off about what's happening in the news. But I want to start with AI for just a moment with you, because you and also, by the way, recently Bernie Sanders have been proposing different ways to tax the AI universe. And we just had this EO on AI or executive order on AI? No, it's a different issue. But Sam Altman apparently is in town right now and talking to different legislators and like there's a question mark about whether we should be taxing AI, how we should tax AI, if we should tax AI and what it could do to slow down the development of all of this. Where do you sort of sit on this issue right now? Or is this an issue you think we need to be thinking about much as farther down the line?

[Elizabeth Warren]

Oh, listen, we need to be thinking right now. In fact, we should have been thinking about this yesterday and taking action. Look, we don't know what's going to happen with AI, but we do know that the people who are most deeply engaged are talking about half the workforce losing their jobs. We're talking about enormous disruption, disruption in ways that we can't anticipate. Now is the moment to get ahead of that, to get started on our response. And part of it. I mean, think about it. If you were talking about a lot of people could lose their jobs, we're going to see a lot of disruption. What would you do? Well, you might start by saying let's make sure that those who are getting the profits from this are also helping cushion the disruption. So I've proposed, for example, an excise tax on the data centers themselves, the place where all of this is being produced, so that, in effect, they internalize the cost of what they're doing. And that's money we can then spend on health care. It's money we can spend on child care. It's money we can spend on education so that people can train for.

[Joe Kernen]

But should we be doing that now? Because it's. Look, there's still a question mark. I think it's fair to say there's a question mark about what it is doing to labor in this moment may have a demonstrable impact. And I worry about that impact down the line.

[Elizabeth Warren]

So I'm going to do it both ways. We should be doing it now. We should be doing it now for two reasons. The first reason we should be doing it now is we need to get ahead of what's coming. You don't wait until you've laid off a bunch of people till they've lost their health care. Do they have no place to go to say, oh, we're Congress, we should now think about policies here. But the second reason we should be moving right now is these data centers have real impact. We know that. And if they're going to have an impact, then the answer is we need a structure in place where the cost that they impose, we have a way

[Joe Kernen]

to actually, Bernie Sanders is literally talking about creating a sovereign welfare fund where there'd be a dividend and we would own a stake in these companies. There's also a question whether it slows it down, slows the innovation piece of it down. These are companies, by the way, not making money yet and whether they're going to be able to compete properly. If you believe we're in this sort of race against China.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yeah, look, I'm very concerned about the race against China. But that opens another box we should be talking about, and that is the chips that we make here in the United States, States that were based on research that taxpayers in the United States paid for that Nvidia and others have been exporting to China. You know, we have restrictions, export controls on this really highly technical in video

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

would say that they are not exporting to China.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yeah, that's what they would say. Well, that's. We certainly need a deeper investigation about how these chips, you're saying, going through other places. But I'm saying, yes, I am concerned, but I'm concerned right now directly with the fact that the Chinese, in effect, buy our stuff And American companies make a profit doing that. But it certainly undermines our long term security, particularly because the chips we've been talking about are not just chips to help the AI industry in general in China. These are chips that are actually used for military purposes.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And you're talking about the most recent Nvidia.

[Elizabeth Warren]

I'm talking about the most recent that are moving out and that we're very concerned about what's happening. It's also a question about the technology on how to develop those chips, how to build those chips. We need to keep that in the United States.

[Joe Kernen]

Okay, let me pivot the conversation to a couple of other big headlines.

[Emily Wilkins]

Yeah.

[Joe Kernen]

Bill Pulte running National Intelligence.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yeah.

[Joe Kernen]

What do you think of that? And do you believe that he could be confirmed if in fact it wasn't just an acting role?

[Elizabeth Warren]

I think it's a terrible, terrible decision. And no, I don't think he could get confirmed. I mean, that's just my own view on. I sure wouldn't vote for him. But I think there are a lot of people in the United States Senate who would say someone who has demonstrated that he is willing to use personal information to weaponize it against the perceived enemies of the President of the United States. Someone like that should be in charge of the deepest secrets in the United States. I don't think so. And I don't think anybody's going to go for that.

[Joe Kernen]

Okay, Todd Blanche? No, no.

[Elizabeth Warren]

I mean, what about Todd Blanche?

[Joe Kernen]

Well, the. The podcast this morning by the President says that he is the next ag.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Oh, I hadn't heard this one.

[Joe Kernen]

Oh, okay. So, yes, so he apparently is going to become. Be nominated to be the next Attorney General. Look, and that would require confirmation.

[Elizabeth Warren]

That's right. The guy who just cut the deal to say that the President of the United States will never have to answer for however he or anyone in his family may have cheated on taxes. The President of the United States gets the extra, extra special deal that no other human being who walks the face of the earth gets. I don't think so. I think that's a pretty bad idea. Oh, and he's also the guy who helped negotiate the slush fund, because that was a real winner. The whole idea that the President of the United states should have $1.7 billion to hand out to his perceived supporters. I don't think so.

[Becky Quick]

I wasn't done with. With AI.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

That's what I want to go.

[Joe Kernen]

You want to go back to.

[Becky Quick]

You want to go back to. In this context, and I have been. I'm torn because I agree that most disruptions in the past. I don't want to be a Luddite. And it's always led to, you know, we don't have buggy whips. It's always been great what has happened, but I think we're sitting here listening and we're just supposed to accept that blindly when the whole point of AI was really is to do things that don't require a human to do it. I think it's staring us in the face that this is going to be not the same as previous disruptions. And. And I think there could be really devastating truckers, too. I mean, you just pick any industry and you can find a way to do that. And I want to know how to do it without necessarily taxing it, which. Which means less of it.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Okay. I want to let it act however it wants to act, but at the same time, I want to worry about it. Is that what you're saying?

[Becky Quick]

I'm saying that I want it to happen, but I don't see any other way than we're all going to be sitting around on ubi, on the universal basic income, you know, playing video games.

[Elizabeth Warren]

So part of the answer is we can't just let a handful of billionaires make all the decisions here. I think that has to be your story. The point is, I get it. They have built something. They think it's really exciting. They've gotten out there. They've. They're building these data centers now as a way to make this operational. But the central question is going to be, are we here in Congress going to exercise any control over this? So we're going to.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What do you think of the executive order that the President. What do you think of the executive order that the president just put out about 30 days before you put it out? And it's voluntary.

[Elizabeth Warren]

I'm sorry.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Warren]

That may be the same template as the executive order that the banks will voluntarily reduce interest rates on credit cards down to 10%. Does anyone remember what the banks did in response? Nothing. Nothing, exactly right. These guys are not voluntarily going to say, oh, we will cut our profits. We will make sure that we are doing anything other than. Than maximizing the number of dollars that go into our own pockets. This is where power lies, but only if we pick it up and use it. And the way we can start that is we can start with the data centers, not with the. When does your accounting show that you made a profit? Start with the data centers. You're out there building something. You're creating externalities because those Companies are making a profit. Well, it's not the question of profit. It's a question of what they're doing handing out. It's like a tax on tobacco. We don't ask the question, did you make a profit on the, on the cigarettes? We ask the question. You just, if you're selling them, there's a tax on it. That's what, an excise.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What kind of a tax would you put? Like how.

[Elizabeth Warren]

I put an excise tax.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

How, how, how big?

[Elizabeth Warren]

So you measure by, by their outputs. Okay. And then you've got at least some constraint at the place. And I'm trying to pick the place. Joe, that is the least intrusive on the creativity. The place where they're actually producing the thing that pushes it out into businesses.

[Joe Kernen]

Let me ask you a question. Is there, is there more value in changing the tax code to. Since you could. I mean, this goes to the sort of labor versus capital, more around capital gains and less around labor. Interestingly, we spoke with Jeff Bezos a couple of weeks ago and he made the argument that folks, for example, who are getting paid under $100,000 in the United States effectively shouldn't be paying federal taxes at all.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yeah. What do you say about a wealth tax?

[Joe Kernen]

He. I, I remember.

[Elizabeth Warren]

I think I saw that, I think

[Joe Kernen]

you saw that interview because I think I, I saw a social post that you might have been involved in on the other end of this.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Because his view is he's on his way to being a trillionaire and please, nobody get in his way.

[Joe Kernen]

I think his argument was that he's open to a debate. I actually think he would have a debate, debate with you and a conversation about whether there should be higher taxes on the other end. I think his bigger argument was that that is not going to fill the larger hole that would.

[Becky Quick]

And that's my, that was my question. The two centers. We tax the hell out of these bidders. Let's say we do. It's a finite number. Does there ever come a point with 40 trillion in debt where you're not just thinking about taxing more to spend more on whatever you want to do to try to fix the work? Does it ever get to the point where we, right now we're 24% of what we spend? We're still raising 18%, but can we get it back down?

[Elizabeth Warren]

Can I just invert that question and ask it of our Republican friends here? And that is, is there ever a point where you will stop cutting taxes for billionaires? Because that is exactly why we have this dislocation But I gave you that.

[Joe Kernen]

I gave you that.

[Becky Quick]

We're going to tax them then. No, no, still not going to be enough. Who else?

[Elizabeth Warren]

So, but let's start with a wealth tax actually is an astonishing amount of money from a handful of people because they have so much. You put a 2 cent wealth tax on all of the value that you've got above $50 million and what have you got? You've got enough money to do universal child care, you've got enough money to fund all of our public schools. You've got got enough money to fund our colleges and universities if you do

[Senator Thom Tillis]

want to spend it.

[Elizabeth Warren]

You don't even want our student loan debt. You've got the money we need here in America to start investing in our people. And Jeff Bezos says, oh, we could double his taxes and it wouldn't be enough. Absolutely. As long as we're going to stick with income. Because Jeff Bezos knows how to work the system. But the problem is for hundreds of, of millions of Americans, they don't get to work the system. They don't get to say, oh, I'll just live off borrowing against.

[Becky Quick]

He doesn't want to tax anyone below

[Joe Kernen]

the buy borrow die sort of theory of the case I just want to posit to you, and he said it directly is something actually he doesn't do. He's been selling his stock regularly to finance, by the way, Blue Origin. You can decide whether that's a good investment, a bad investment, you can decide. But he has to sell the, sell the stock and actually pay the taxes. That's how it actually works in practice. There are other people, I'm not just telling you that there's not other people who do this, but I think that he's probably not the right example for that particular case.

[Elizabeth Warren]

So I will make 2 responses to this. The first one is, yes, he sells, he says for Blue Origin and notice gets taxpayer support for doing that. Because when he sells, that's different from somebody who, who goes out and teaches school and draws a paycheck, he gets to pay at a lower tax rate than someone else.

[Joe Kernen]

And that's why I was raising the question about whether we should have higher capital gains tax.

[Elizabeth Warren]

But the other part of this is did he sell stock in order to buy his $300 billion yacht? I don't know, I don't know the answer here. But I do know that the billionaires, we've seen it, the billionaires are not paying based on their wealth. They have figured out lots of schemes how to take advantage of our tax code so that they are. Jeff Bezos pays taxes at the same rate as a Boston public school teacher. And that makes no sense at all. We need a tax system that truly accounts for the fact that there are people who have amassed huge wealth. And I'm not, I'm not looking at trying to confiscate everything. They've got a 2 cent wealth tax, 2 cents every year on what they.

[Joe Kernen]

Fair to say that your version or thought around a wealth tax is because you think there are too many loopholes in the other parts of the system. You and I have had debates about this before. I have a view that we should be taxing realized gains as opposed to unrealized gains for lots of reasons that are mostly philosophical. But you would have to actually change parts of the laws around how capital gains works.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The tax code is important.

[Joe Kernen]

How entitlements work. I mean not entitlements, but you know, tax of death and all. There's a whole bunch of things you'd have to do to prevent all of the loopholes. I think the reason you like the wealth tax is because it sort of circumvents all of those other things.

[Elizabeth Warren]

You bet it does. Because there's a whole industry that has grown up that gets paid by the likes of Jeff Bezos to make sure that every loophole is there and can carefully protected. And not only make sure that Congress protects all those loopholes and builds additional ones, but that over at the irs, every interpretive letter but they work in favor of the billionaires and that means against the problem we've got of amounting.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I'm not in favor of a lot of the things that you're talking about that you're targeting here. I agree with you on many of those counts. But one person's loophole, maybe another senators version of trying to incentivize behavior. The reason that you know clearly like the reason that you get a get to a discount on your. It's incentivizing you to buy a home because you get the tax benefits that come with that. There are all sorts of behaviors that we incentivize.

[Becky Quick]

When you talk to them, to people in the country, the same normal people you're always talking about, they see how much they're taxed now and it might be, I don't know, 60% if, if you, if you're at a certain level in New York, in New Jersey, that's what your total tax. If you're a double bill the other day and you see how the money is spent and you see what's being uncovered now on how it's being spent and the idea that this is still not enough, what the federal government is spending right now. You want to ramp it up, tax everybody billionaires and maybe even below that and not even reduce the deficit. You want to even use that to spend more on, on Medicaid fraud. And so let me ask it. Just let's go through the cracks and doesn't work.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Let's turn it around more. Let's. Let's turn it around the other way. Let's turn it around the other way. If half of the wealth tax went to reducing the deficit, would you support it then?

[Becky Quick]

I'd at least listen a little bit more.

[Elizabeth Warren]

You would listen a little.

[Becky Quick]

But it's still not enough though. Senator, you.

[Elizabeth Warren]

How do you know it's not enough?

[Becky Quick]

You can do the math. You're going to.

[Elizabeth Warren]

I have done the math.

[Becky Quick]

And what's it come. What's the total you could raise on

[Elizabeth Warren]

the, on the bill? Well, it's now gone up.

[Becky Quick]

Well, you want to go to 50 million now? 2% down to 50 million.

[Elizabeth Warren]

I want above 50. Your first 50 million in wealth is free and clear. Your 50 millionth and first dollar you have to pay a 2 cent tax on.

[Becky Quick]

Right.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Is that such a, a big deal?

[Becky Quick]

I mean for philosophically, I think it's a pretty big deal.

[Elizabeth Warren]

You think it's a big deal?

[Becky Quick]

I do. Because you paid money to accrue that you did.

[Elizabeth Warren]

You pay money to buy your house.

[Becky Quick]

I understand you're going to pay a property tax and you pay, you pay

[Elizabeth Warren]

a property tax on that.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

For services. For services.

[Elizabeth Warren]

And you pay tax on services. You pay taxes.

[Becky Quick]

What is that number if you do 2% on 50 million and above.

[Elizabeth Warren]

So I have an I trying to remember.

[Becky Quick]

I can, I'm going to ask Claude right now.

[Elizabeth Warren]

Yeah, but I will, I will tell you.

[Becky Quick]

I. Claude, because you want to tax

[Elizabeth Warren]

him, you can look it up. But here's the thing that's the most important. I ran this during my presidential in 2019 and we did all the numbers and here's the best part, we just reintroduced. I got somebody to tell me what the number is again. Here was the part that struck me though. Between the time I ran for president in 2019 and now, the amount of revenue that a 2 cent wealth tax would produce doubled. I just want you to think about that. Okay. Income didn't double for my public school teachers in Boston. Income didn't double for millions of Americans across this country. But for that handful at the top. What doubled was not income. You like to talk about realized income. That's voluntary. Jeff Bezos can detect, decide to do that or not because he's figured out he could make more money or not make more money on his investments. But what has doubled has been that accumulation of wealth. And I should add power up at the top. A 2 cent wealth tax just says, come on, look what you've gotten in this country. How do you think you built that wealth? You built that wealth, your hard work, two thumbs up, your innovative ideas, two thumbs up. But you also built it using a workforce all of us helped educate. You built it using roads and bridges all of us helped build. You use it being protected by police and firefighters and army that all of us help pay for. And all we're asking in return, 2 cents on that wealth so that we can help stabilize this country, so that we can invest in our people so they have opportunities and, and so that we can face something like an AI crisis with at least some cushioning for the American people.

[Joe Kernen]

Senator Warren, want to thank you. We appreciate it.

[Narrator/Host]

That does it for Squawk Pod today. Thank you for tuning in today and every other day. Squawk Box is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Rossorkin weekday mornings on cnbc starting at 6 Eastern. To get the smartest takes and analysis from that three hour TV show right in your ears. Follow Squawkpod wherever you're listening now. We'll meet you right back here tomorrow. Have a great day.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

We are clear. Thanks guys.

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[Becky Quick]

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