AI at the G-7 & A Memorandum of Understanding 6/17/26

Summary

Squawk Pod Podcast Summary

Episode: AI at the G-7 & A Memorandum of Understanding
Date: June 17, 2026
Hosts: Becky Quick, Joe Kernen
Key Guests: David Albright (Former Nuclear Weapons Inspector), Aneesh Chopra (Former U.S. CTO)
Main Theme:
A deep dive into the breaking developments at the 2026 G7 meeting in France: President Trump’s Iran strategy and memorandum of understanding, global concern over AI safety featuring top tech CEOs, and a major moment for SpaceX in public markets.

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1. Main Theme and Episode Overview

The episode covers two interlinked global headlines:

• The U.S.–Iran memorandum of understanding brokered at the G7, including real-time reactions from President Trump and nuclear expert analysis.
• Global leaders’ efforts to manage AI advancement and risk, spotlighting a high-stakes summit with OpenAI, Google, and Anthropic after the latter’s dramatic model withdrawal.

Additional segments touch briefly on U.S. Fed policy under new leadership, SpaceX’s market dominance, and relevant impacts on energy and markets.

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2. Key Discussion Points and Insights

A. President Trump, Iran, and the G7 (01:02 – 24:41)

i. The New U.S.–Iran Memorandum of Understanding

• President Trump’s approach is characterized by volatility and use of military threats as leverage in ongoing negotiations.
• The 14-point Memorandum is designed for an immediate ceasefire and reopening the Strait of Hormuz but is criticized as incomplete and weakly worded.

Quotes:

• “If they don't behave, we'll go right back to dropping bombs right smack in the middle of their head.”
  — President Trump, paraphrased by Joe Kernen (01:13, 13:59)
• “This deal is giving away a lot of US leverage. I mean, it's paying a very high price to get the Strait of Hormuz open and there isn't going to be a lot of leverage left to deal with the nuclear questions.”
  — David Albright (01:23, 17:38)

ii. Expert Perspective: David Albright

• Albright critiques the deal’s “leaky language,” noting the vague prohibition on nuclear weapons (“produce” vs. “develop, test, manufacture”) which creates exploitable loopholes.
• Argues for stronger, clearer terms and robust International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspections.
• Warns that rewarding Iran without strict compliance could embolden further bad behavior.

Quotes:

• “The language in the Memorandum of Understanding is kind of timid. It's not enough to push Iran to feel that it needs to do something.”
  — David Albright (21:10)
• “So it's highly contentious, and it would never mutually agree with the United States to look into that. This paragraph... really needs some serious amendments and work.”
  — David Albright (18:43, 20:36)

iii. Political and Economic Backdrop

• Market reaction: Oil prices dropped as war risk premiums faded, but the situation remains fragile.
• Fed Watch: Brief discussion of Kevin Warsh’s first decision as Fed Chair—emphasizing continuity, with potential signaling changes for policy transparency.

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B. AI, Global Regulation, and Anthropic’s Pullback (24:41 – 36:49)

i. G7’s Global AI Strategy

• Leaders (including the U.S. president) hold a critical session with OpenAI, Anthropic, Google, and others, coinciding with Anthropic’s abrupt suspension of its Fable 5 and Mythos 5 models over security concerns.

Quotes:

• “There appears to be some rough global consensus that we've got a model to keep the innovation machine running, but protecting against harms.”
  — Aneesh Chopra (24:52, 27:13)

ii. Regulation & Model Oversight

• Aneesh Chopra outlines an emerging model: “pre-release” technical reviews by public standards bodies to balance innovation and security, but he highlights recent failures.
• Details the process gaps exposed by the Anthropic episode, including:
  • Industry–government coordination
  • Amazon’s security tip-off
  • Uncertainty in government’s technical capacity to keep up

Quotes:

• “What went wrong? Was the model evaluated? What did they see? Did they miss something?”
  — Aneesh Chopra (01:47, 28:36)
• “We want these capabilities in the hands of our defenders so we can fix bugs and improve software that is at risk when other people have these sorts of capabilities.”
  — Aneesh Chopra (30:41)

iii. Where Industry and Government Collide

• The panel debates whether regulation is keeping pace, and if Anthropic’s withdrawal was justified given possible foreign risks (e.g., ties to China).
• The need for a more stable, less “blunt” regulatory process is stressed, as is the importance of not letting personality or politics overshadow technical decisions.

Quotes:

• “Ideally they would be working collaboratively to surface problems and address them before those products come to market. Something fell short in this release…The hope is that it is the exception and not the norm.”
  — Aneesh Chopra (34:06)
• “It's not about Anthropic—one company. This is going to be every model from here forward having to figure this out.”
  — Aneesh Chopra (36:21)

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C. Brief Market & Policy Highlights

i. SpaceX Surpasses Amazon (06:22 – 08:18)

• SpaceX’s stock surge (briefly overtaking Amazon and nearly rivaling Microsoft’s market cap) is described as a “huge promise” moment—sparked by new options activity and Elon Musk’s ambitious revenue predictions—though skepticism about valuation persists.

ii. U.S. Politics and Policy

• Fed’s new Chair Kevin Warsh prepares for his first policy announcement, with debates around transparency (“too much talk” vs. Greenspan’s legacy) and the “dot plot.”
• Senate machinations around the Save America Act and FISA extension, with President Trump tying nominations to legislative conditions.

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3. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Iran & G7

• “We'll go back to shooting at him.” — Joe Kernen echoing Trump’s approach (10:50, 13:59)
• “This one in particular really needs some serious amendments and work...the language in this memorandum of understanding is kind of timid.” — David Albright (11:06, 21:10)

AI & G7

• “There appears to be some rough global consensus that we've got a model to keep the innovation machine running, but protecting against harms.” — Aneesh Chopra (24:52, 27:13)
• “What went wrong here? Was the model evaluated? What did they see? Did they miss something?” — Aneesh Chopra (01:47, 28:36)
• “It's not about Anthropic—one company. This is going to be every model from here forward.” — Aneesh Chopra (36:21)

Market & Fed Banter

• On SpaceX: “A trillion dollars in revenue by 2030…you got to figure out how quickly they're going to ramp up.” — Becky Quick (07:09)

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4. Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:02] – Main episode theme introduced by Katie Kramer
• [01:13] – President Trump’s Iran stance and tactics
• [03:03] – Discussion of Kevin Warsh’s Fed policy approach
• [06:22] – SpaceX market valuation overtakes Amazon
• [13:26] – Live highlights from G7: Trump’s Iran comments (with Megan Casella)
• [17:38] – David Albright critiques Iran deal’s language
• [24:41] – Segue to AI in global focus
• [27:13] – Aneesh Chopra on global consensus & AI regulation
• [28:36] – Detailed questioning about Anthropic’s security withdrawal
• [32:07] – Should Anthropic have pulled back models?
• [34:06] – Chopra: “Something fell short in this release”

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5. Flow, Tone, and Style

• The conversation remains brisk, sometimes irreverent, balancing in-depth policy and technical analysis with the Squawk Box signature banter.
• Hosts engage in quick-witted exchanges about economic history (high mortgage rates, misery index), but pivot seamlessly to the pressing realpolitik of the G7 and the bleeding edge of AI governance.
• Expert guests provide grounded, sometimes blunt assessments that move between granular detail and sweeping strategic implications.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode of Squawk Pod connects the dots between high diplomacy and high technology. At the G7, the Trump administration’s precarious Iran gamble faces scrutiny for its apparent lack of enforceable terms, risking both regional stability and nuclear nonproliferation. Simultaneously, global leaders and Silicon Valley reckon with the real and present risks of AI, as sudden model withdrawals and government interventions highlight the need for clear, collaborative, and technically sound oversight—before the next crisis hits. The episode foregrounds the intersection of markets, geopolitics, and innovation, with an emphasis on just how delicate today’s global stability remains.

Transcript

[Narrator/Host]

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[Becky Quick]

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[Aneesh Chopra]

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[Joe Kernan]

Bring in show music please.

[Narrator/Host]

Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod, President Trump at the G7 in France speaking about his memo of understanding with Iran.

[Joe Kernan]

If they don't behave, we'll go right back to dropping bombs right smack in the middle of their head.

[Narrator/Host]

Former nuclear weapons inspector David Albright said says the document needs more work.

[David Albright]

This deal is giving away a lot of US Leverage. I mean it's paying a very high price to get the Strait of Hormuz open and there isn't going to be a lot of leverage left to deal with the nuclear questions.

[Narrator/Host]

Also at the G7, Google, OpenAI and Anthropic. This meeting comes right after Anthropic suspended access to its newest AI models. Former White House Chief Technology Officer Aneesh Chopra.

[Aneesh Chopra]

What went wrong here? Was the model evaluated? What did they see? Did they miss something?

[Narrator/Host]

Plus SpaceX fed day and what goes around comes around.

[Joe Kernan]

Jimmy Carter is in the White House

[Becky Quick]

with lust in his heart and Iran was in the news.

[Narrator/Host]

It is Wednesday, June 17, 2026. Squawk Pod begins right now.

[Becky Quick]

Stamp Becky by in 3, 2, 1.

[Aneesh Chopra]

Cue it please.

[Becky Quick]

Good morning everybody. Welcome to Squawk Box right here on cnbc. We are live from the NASDAQ marketsite in Times Square. I'm Becky Quick along with Joe Kernan. Andrew is out today and the Federal

[Joe Kernan]

Reserve is set to issue its decision on interest rates today. The first under new chairman Kevin Warsh. The market widely expecting the central bank to stand pat on rates. The Decision comes at 2pm Eastern with a wash news conference scheduled for 30 minutes later. The FOMC also set to issue updated economic projections in the so called dot plot. Most Fed watchers think that Warsh won't participate either because he's too new at the Fed or because he wants to underline that he's not a fan of the dot plot and all the implications for all the forward guidance.

[Becky Quick]

He's been talking about pulling that for a long time.

[Joe Kernan]

He has. He thinks they talk way too much and Greenspan did not. And it sort of all changed under Bernanke. What do you.

[Becky Quick]

There are pretty unusual circumstances with Bernanke. Good reason for maybe talking more frequently because of the financial crisis.

[Joe Kernan]

They never like government programs once they're out. They never go back. They never go back. You mentioned oil, what, 76, $76 for banks. 76, that's a different number than even a week or two ago that Warsh was going to be facing Japan's raising interest rates because of oil prices. So Japan's in a much more 31 year. But they use, they use that for inflation too. They use higher rates to, to end inflation.

[Becky Quick]

Yes.

[Joe Kernan]

So they got the same tool.

[Becky Quick]

Right.

[Joe Kernan]

It just gives him, I think, a little more flexibility and maybe not to cut, but maybe not to indicate that the next move would be. Would be a hike.

[Megan Casella]

Agree.

[Becky Quick]

Look, I don't anticipate there'll be much difference in the communique that comes out. Maybe, maybe he'll want to get his fingerprints on that. But really it's the meeting after the, the press conference afterwards to see what Warsh himself has to say, what he wants to put forward as the main points on his agenda that people will be watching today.

[Joe Kernan]

Right, sure. He's, you know, it's his first meeting, so I don't know what. Yeah, I would tread kind of lightly. We'll see if he doesn't. That would be news. If he comes in blazing. Yeah, I kind of like to see it.

[Becky Quick]

I was thinking back today of the Fed chairman that I've known in my career, in my consciousness, I guess, starting with Greenspan and working your way through Bernanke, Yellen, Powell and now Warsh. And I've been around. I remember more presidents than I remember Fed chairman.

[Joe Kernan]

Who appointed Greenspan.

[Becky Quick]

Was that Reagan?

[Joe Kernan]

Reagan. So that's where my. And you know, I'm a lot older than you and that's my beginning recollection too. All I know is that there were a couple of predecessors to Greenspan that were totally pilloried because of.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah, but Volcker. Right. Of what he did to have to raise money.

[Joe Kernan]

I'm sorry, Volcker is what I. Yeah, that goes without saying that. Everyone remembers that big tall guy taking rates. Yeah, but that was when I was first in the job market and I was never going to buy a house because it was 16% mortgage rates.

[Becky Quick]

I remember my parents having mortgage rates that were just unbelievable.

[Joe Kernan]

21 and a half percent.

[Becky Quick]

Even as a kid. I remember the idea that if you could move and take your mortgage rate with you, your fixed mortgage rate with you, that was a big deal. Or sell your house and be able to sell them the interest rate that came with it.

[Joe Kernan]

I'd look it up, but I'll just guess, but they had a misery index at the time.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah, I remember that too.

[Joe Kernan]

It was like 22 or something like that. You know, double digit unemployment and double digit inflation at the same time.

[Becky Quick]

That's why what the Fed has to say matters.

[Joe Kernan]

Jimmy Carter is in the White House with lust in his heart.

[Becky Quick]

And Iran was in the news in 79.

[Joe Kernan]

It certainly was.

[Becky Quick]

I remember. Do you remember Mickey Mouse flipping the bird saying, hey, Iran. That was what was on all the T shirts.

[Joe Kernan]

I just remember our horrible losses when we tried to get them out and then we were stuck and we just felt horrible.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah. And here we are again.

[Joe Kernan]

We're monitoring shares of SpaceX, which again gained yesterday and in the premarket this morning up another 3%. And the shares rose 4% yesterday, 20% in each of the stocks first two days. And SpaceX overtaking Amazon's market cap. It briefly topped Microsoft's market value just shy of $3 trillion. Investor Michael Burry made famous in the big short, arguing in a substack post that options used to wager against SpaceX stock remain too expensive. Those began to trade for the first time yesterday. So a lot of people think that it's a good short, I guess at this point, or at least overvalued.

[Becky Quick]

It's been, you know, when it overtook Amazon yesterday, kind of watching through. Okay, so you look at the market cap right now, 2.74 trillion to 2.64 trillion for Amazon. There's so much stuff in Amazon if you consider it's not just the web, the retailer. It's not just cloud, the cloud computing. It's got its own satellite program with Kuiper that's now been renamed to. What is it, Leo? There's just program after program from the movie studios, Amazon Prime Video, on and on and on. And SpaceX has some huge promise, but again, you got to figure out how quickly they're going to ramp up. Elon Musk has some pretty big numbers. He's anticipating. What did he say, a trillion dollars in revenue by 2030. Yeah, but that's where you've got people who are going to start really looking at this.

[Joe Kernan]

You know, for years, people had to think about Amazon the same way.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah, yeah, right. And for Amazon, it wasn't going to be profitable for a long time because Jeff Bezos was trying to build it and make it bigger and bigger and bigger. So every time they had any money that came in, he was deploying.

[Joe Kernan]

It was all revenue growth at that point.

[Becky Quick]

Right. All right. President Trump says that a Senate confirmation hearing set for today on U.S. attorney Jay Clayton's candidacy for Director of National Intelligence will be canceled. In an early morning post on Truth Social, the president accused Democrats of breaking a deal to allow an extension of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance act in exchange for removing Acting Director of National Intelligence Bill Pulte and. And clearing the way for Clayton to take that job. President Trump said that he doesn't want Clayton to leave his current position to take the intelligence post until Jamie McDonald is installed as the new U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York. Trump saying in his words, to add a slight bit of intrigue, but for the good of the nation and the good and the people of our country, I will not approve FISA without the Save America act going along with it. The Save America act is the president's proposed bill that would require proof of citizenship in order to.

[Joe Kernan]

Yeah, some other provisions in there. And I did get to watch Senate. The majority leader, he had an extended interview with, on another network with my buddy Brett. But there was a good interview and a lot went on. He said a lot of things and, you know, he's very forthcoming. We had him on last week. Yeah, we had him on last week. And he, you know, he has agrees with a lot of things the president's doing, but there are some sticking points in that relationship and trying to do things. I don't know what the prospects are for that. They brought the Save act up I don't know how many times. It's not currently workable with the makeup of both Republicans. I think got 48 votes or something like that. So you don't even have, you don't even have all the Republicans at this point. And then if it goes into a Votarama or it gets very deep in the weeds. But there are certain amendments that would go on to the Votarama that would make it very tough for certain Republicans in tough districts to support. So it's, you know, to literally really like, you know, the really gross greasy sausage that goes into intestines. It's not just making sausage, it's making the worst kind. It's making blood sausage.

[David Albright]

All right.

[Becky Quick]

People are just waking up.

[Joe Kernan]

What is that from blood sausage? Groundhog Day, right? It says some people eat blood sausage.

[Becky Quick]

Not me.

[Joe Kernan]

No

[Commercial Announcer]

cheese will be next.

[Narrator/Host]

Coming up on squawk pod President Trump's first televised comments of the day at the G7 in France. The topic du jour, of course, is Iran.

[Joe Kernan]

It's a memorandum of understanding, and if I don't like it, we'll go back to shooting at him.

[Narrator/Host]

Former nuclear weapons inspector David Albright zeroes in on that memorandum of understanding, and two paragraphs have what he calls leaky language.

[David Albright]

This one in particular really needs some serious amendments and work, and I hope that this is not the final the language in this memorandum of understanding is kind of timid.

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[David Albright]

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[Joe Kernan]

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[Narrator/Host]

This is Squawk Pod from cnbc. Here's Becky Quick.

[Becky Quick]

President Trump just finished taking questions from reporters with the President of Egypt at the G7 meeting. There is some news breaking out of this. Megan Casella joins us right now with the highlights from that. Megan, good to see you again.

[Megan Casella]

Becky. That's right. This was the first time we heard from President Trump on camera today and he was being asked specifically about that draft 14 point memorandum of understanding that we've been talking about for the past few days. And the president suggesting here that this is not a final document, that, that things could still be changing and that if he doesn't like the way negotiations go, the US And Iran could return to active war. Take a listen to the president's comments.

[Joe Kernan]

No, it's not final. It's a memorandum of understanding. And if I don't like it, we'll go back to shooting at him, dropping bombs on their head.

[Megan Casella]

What do you expect?

[Joe Kernan]

The word if I don't like it, if they don't behave, we'll go right back to dropping bombs right smack in the middle of their head.

[Megan Casella]

Guys, the president here severely undercutting some of the stability that he and his top officials have been trying to generate this week with this deal. The argument we've been hearing all week from the Trump administration has been that yes, this is a bare bones document and it leaves a lot to be left negotiated. But what it got the US and the rest of the region was a lot of stability here. While they worked out the harder details, it was extending the cease fire. That is still true. But the president of course saying now that if he doesn't like the way things are going, potentially even within the next 60 days, he says he won't hesitate to return to dropping bombs. Becky?

[Becky Quick]

Yeah, I guess I can't say I'm completely shocked by this, Megan. There's, there's been a lot of pushback about the terms of the deal, how you make sure that the Iranians stick to the terms of some of these things, questions about all of those issues. That's why I asked the last time you were with us about the idea of removing the military because that's always been kind of the cudgel that President Trump will hang over. Anything to try and get them to the negotiating table and try and make some of the, some of the progress with some of those, with some of those negotiations. I can't say I'm shocked to hear this.

[Megan Casella]

That's right. And I think that's fair. I mean, he of course does not want to remove what he views as the US Biggest negotiating point is the power of the military. He doesn't want to take that off the table entirely. So in one hand, not surprising. On the other hand, though, the argument at the G7 all week and when talking with regional allies and specifically especially European allies who really want to see this war ending has been, well, now we've gotten to firmer ground. We're going to cool tensions both sides. Cooler heads will prevail on both sides while they work out the rest of the agreements, which of course, continue to be the hardest one. So, you know, the president in some ways may be trying to balance those two things, not wanting to remove what he sees as the biggest, the U.S. s biggest leverage point. But also this really does undercut that stability. And things like markets that have been celebrating this deal because they think it means the end to this war, clearly showing here we're not there yet.

[Becky Quick]

Look, I think what the European leaders want and many other areas like China and, and, and India, they want the strait reopened. And that's why we've seen oil prices. In fact, can we take a look at oil prices and just see where they stand at this moment? Oil prices were at $76 when we started. Now it's at $76.46.

[Joe Kernan]

If there's, if there's an undercutting of the stability that you're talking about affecting the markets, I don't know what markets you're looking at.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah, I mean, this is. We'll have to play this out and see. But right now, WTI is still sitting below $77 a barrel. That's the immediate stability that this has brought, the idea that the strait would be reopened. And I think the oil markets are going to reflect any concerns, any conditions that are brought up because the war premium came out of that market immediately. With the, this coming out the other day, obviously the president's saying this. That's going to catch some attention. We'll see how it plays out in the markets. But this is the first time he's been speaking on camera today, and Megan is following all of this very closely. Megan, thank you for bringing us those comments and continue to watch all of this and bring us any developments as they happen. Megan Casella, Joining us right now is former nuclear weapons inspector David Albright. He is the president of the Institute for Science and International Security. And David, I think we'd all like to see the world without Iran having nuclear ambitions. How likely do you think it is that they will give up those nuclear ambitions for some of the things that they seem to have been promised?

[David Albright]

I think based on just reading this, the available memorandum Memorandum of Understanding. I mean, you can't have a lot of confidence. This deal is giving away a lot of US Leverage. I mean, it's paying a very high price to get the Strait of Hormuz open. And there isn't going to be a lot of leverage left left to deal with the nuclear questions. And the language in the Memorandum of Understanding isn't very good. I mean, it's not even using kind of the standard language that's been developed to say a country shouldn't develop or test or manufacture or produce nuclear weapons. It just uses the word produce. And we know from experience that that creates loopholes. And countries have exploited that, Iran included, has been exploiting that, that kind of imprecise language for, for years. And so you mean the idea of

[Becky Quick]

the words not being able to test, not being specifically in the, in the memorandum.

[David Albright]

They're not in the memorandum that is available publicly now. Maybe, you know, this isn't the finalized

[Becky Quick]

version, we should say.

[Joe Kernan]

Right.

[David Albright]

But Trump's been making statements that he wants to see improvements in it. And this is one area where I think he's been less than satisfied. But still, this is the, the version out there that's being said as final and leaky language. And it also has some language that talks about the nuclear issues will be addressed that are mutually agreed upon. I mean, that's not normal language in a deal. I mean, it should just be the issues that need to be dealt with and mutually agreed could actually exclude robust International Atomic Energy Agency inspections aimed at making sure that Iran doesn't have on declared nuclear material. I mean, Iran rejects that point of view of the IA completely. So it's highly contentious view from Iran's point of view, and it would never mutually agree with the United States to look into that. So I think this, this paragraph, there's two nuclear in two paragraphs, but this one in particular really needs some serious amendments and work. And, and I hope that this is not the final. Now, there may be side deals. I mean, we had that in the, in the 2015 Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action. But the side deals back then, which took a lot of effort to flush out and the media was important in doing that, made things worse. So it was. Since the side deals can hide the even further problems and are there to hide embarrassments and weaknesses. And I saw Vice President J.D. vance recently saying that there are these secret arrangements. I think it was him, let me not quote him saying it, but there are these secret arrangements. But we should know what this deal's about. It shouldn't be okay. It's a great deal because you don't see the secret part of it. We should know exactly what it is. And on its surface it has some serious problems, David.

[Becky Quick]

I mean this has been the question of dealing with Iran going back decades at this point. The idea that we don't want them to have a nuclear program, the idea that they will give as much as they have to, but they've never been very open or forthcoming. I'm sure you have the sense that they have have not followed the spirit or the letter of any of these agreements to this point, that they've tried to evade detection of any of their programs that are there. How do you work within a regime like that?

[David Albright]

Well, I think you have to be very tough. I mean that's the bottom line and the language should be very clear that Iran has to accept robust International Atomic Energy Agency inspections and Iran should cooperate. I mean that's the key word. I mean this whole nuclear issue can be settled in a few months if Iran Cooper operates. And I think the language in this memorandum of understanding is kind of timid. It's not enough to push Iran to feel that it needs to do something. And the memorandum's a bit open ended about it could just be renewed. There's no obligation that Iran complies before it gets the vast benefits that are being given to open the Strait of Hormuz. So I think it's, you have to just be extremely tough with Iran. And I think that could require a return to military strikes. I mean this is a ceasefire deal fundamentally. And I think if Iran doesn't perform it should understand that military actions could resume. And so I don't think we should see this as an end to the war like World War II ended. I mean this is an interim process that we're in and military conflict could resume because Iran will not abide by even the basic requirements of international obligations like the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty. And so I think perhaps it's not good news for the economy per se. But I do think we're in a, that this memorandum kind of reinforces the idea that we're in a very unstable situation.

[Joe Kernan]

Do the threats ring hollow now? David I could make the case either way because the President has threatened many, many times in the last month or whatever it was. I'm going to, you know, we're going to do it again, we're going to do it again. We're going to do the bridges and infrastructure, power plants we're going to do and then it never happened yet. He did do something right at the start that no one ever did before. So, so it's not like Iran can say, oh, we don't, you know, this guy is all talk because he really did do something initially destroying the Navy, destroying so many missiles. So the threat is. But at this point, I don't know whether they're, they think they have gotten beyond that, I think to where they're, I think they're acting with impunity in a lot of ways for the last month.

[David Albright]

Yeah. And I think the deterrence has to be re established. I mean, Trump did, and with Israel did serious damage to the nuclear program, including the parts of the program aimed at building the nuclear weapon itself. And so they've been seriously set back. And that's a real victory of this, of this, of these two wars. And it puts, and it actually puts Iran in a weaker position. And that's why it's surprising to me to see that it's like the US has put itself in a weaker position on something that was of U.S. victory or almost a U.S. victory. So, so I think they have to, they have to reestablish deterrence. And I do think that President Trump has just made one too many or ten times too many threats that don't mean anything. And Iran is, is reading that very accurately and pushing for an advantage.

[Becky Quick]

All right, David, thank you for joining us this morning.

[David Albright]

Thank you.

[Narrator/Host]

Coming up Next on Squawkpot AI in Focus at the the G7 meeting, are the newest models effective and safe? We hear from Aneesh Chopra, former White House Chief Technology Officer.

[Aneesh Chopra]

There appears to be some rough global consensus that we've got a model to keep the innovation machine running, but protecting against harms.

[David Albright]

At Venture Global, we think about what

[Aneesh Chopra]

can be done, not what's usually done through innovation. Venture Global is not only building some of the largest energy facilities in the world right here in the United States, but delivering American energy at a fraction of the cost in a fraction of the time.

[David Albright]

So while others are busy talking, we're busy building. That's Venture Global.

[Aneesh Chopra]

That's unstoppable energy.

[Becky Quick]

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[Aneesh Chopra]

Sometimes AT&T business Wireless connecting changes everything.

[Narrator/Host]

There's a fire inside you you can't ignore. Stand still. Not a chance. You're a lifelong learner who's come this way far. Now.

[Becky Quick]

We are here to help you keep going further. Capella University. What can't you do? Visit Capella Edu to learn more.

[Narrator/Host]

This is Squawk Pod.

[Aneesh Chopra]

Stand by Joe in three, two, one.

[Commercial Announcer]

His mic here.

[Joe Kernan]

You're watching Squawk Box on cnbc. I'm Joe Kernan along with Becky Quick.

[Becky Quick]

We should bring up Also at the G7 today, President Trump and other world leaders will meet with top executives from OpenAI, Anthropic, Google and many other AI companies. Joining us right now to talk about it is former White House Chief Technology Officer Anish Chopra, who is the new chair of the Arcadia Institute. Anish, let's just talk about where things stand with OpenAI, with, with AI writ large. The reason that this is so important and why this luncheon is taking place at the G7 is because every nation has to think about this. How, how do you focus on this and how it plays out on the world stage?

[Aneesh Chopra]

Well, the good news is there appears to be some rough global consensus that we've got a model to keep the innovation machine running, but protecting against harms. And that emerging consensus looks a little bit like what President Trump signed in his executive order, early Frontier Model releases, now that they're showing much better capability to the point where they're starting to have impact on on security to be reviewed by call them Standards and Innovation institutes in the U.S. or the UK Safety Institute. And these bodies theoretically will be positioned to identify potential harms or risks that could be mitigated collaboratively with industry. This is short of obviously, you know, formal rules and, you know, congressional action, but it is a model that appears to have legs, despite the kerfuffle we're in right now from last week, the

[Becky Quick]

US Administration and the trouble that Anthropic has run into once again with both Fable 5 and Mythos 5 being pulled from the market because of concerns that it could fall into the wrong hands and really lead to some problems in foreign hands. How would you think about this? How would you rule on some of these issues? Anthropic has been the one that seems to be most open to the idea of regulation, and yet it is the one that keeps getting caught up in it.

[Aneesh Chopra]

So actually, Becky, it's a little maybe less understood, but the five of the major Frontier lab, all the major frontier labs, have already signed agreements with the United States AI Standards and Innovation body, the expert agency within The Commerce Department, whose job is to evaluate models early and give feedback. So that process has been in place as, as you know, anthropic models were. The Biden administration published technical reports at the end of its version of this, which was launched in 20 and, you know, or 2023, with reports coming out all the way through the end. And so the question really to ask, Becky, is what went wrong here? Was the model evaluated by the expert agency that's evaluating models? What did they see? Did they miss something? Is there a process by which new information, as was reported, was brought in from, you know, one of the hyperscalers, could be used to sort of reopen the technical review? I hope if we look at this instead of what looks like a very volatile, you're in, you're out export control, 530, you know, memos saying, get a pull the product that doesn't feel very stable or resilient, certainly not to the investor audience who's like, what? We want to see the benefits of this. This feels a bit haphazard. But know that underneath that kerfuffle there is a process. And so what's the after action report to make sure that that process is improved and it's more predictable in terms of what we think will happen when models are in.

[Becky Quick]

Let me just cut you off for a second because a lot of this goes over people's heads. So we're still trying to figure out what happened with Anthropic this week. If you read the Wall Street Journal, it suggests that this was a tip off from Amazon from Andy Jassy saying that their people had discovered some problems with this that could really lead to cybersecurity issues in the wrong hands? I realize all these other bodies may have signed off to on it, but is Anthropic right? And how much do I trust a government to be able to analyze the very cutting edge stuff that's happening with, with AI at this point? It kind of makes me feel a little better that industry is checking in on this.

[Aneesh Chopra]

Yeah, forgive me, Becky. Let me just. We have to do two things at once. We want these capabilities in the hands of our defenders so we can fix bugs and improve software that is at risk when other people have these sorts of capabilities. So we already have a process where some of the folks that were expecting to get access, get access. And we want people that shouldn't have access not to have access. So there's these two levels of questions. One is, how do we know who's accessing these models? Clearly that is an area where there's been reporting. And I don't have any verified proof that there may have been a list of potential future folks likely to get access that had not so great ties, perhaps to the Chinese. So there is a dynamic here, which is what can we do to strengthen how we access sensitive models? And we've done this movie before in financial services. We have mechanisms for sensitive access. We created NSTICK in the Obama years to create digital identity. So we have stronger ways of knowing who you are and why you're accessing tools. So that's a problem. The narrow question here is whether or not someone that was slated to get access could have inappropriately moved beyond the guardrails that were put in place to protect against the thing giving you instructions on how to easy, more easily break other people's systems.

[Becky Quick]

Okay, let me just ask, should Anthropic have pulled back Fable 5 and Mythos 5 this week? Did that make sense to you?

[Aneesh Chopra]

I have to defer to the experts in this discussion, Becky. The good news is the cybersecurity coordinator for the president, which is not an office that has like a flamboyant ideology, it's a more expert agency within the White House came to the judgment that there was an issue and that issue needed to be resolved. It's unfortunate that export controls were the blunt instrument used to kind of address something. It ideally would have been handled more amicably and collaboratively. Which is why I'm asking, let's fix the process that that is early.

[Becky Quick]

Which means what they should have said nicely to Anthropic, please pull it back from these people that we think are spies.

[Aneesh Chopra]

No, no, no. I think that would mean that the experts who were reviewing the model, either they made the judgment that what they found was what exactly was reported by Amazon and they didn't view it as a major issue or it was an issue and it needed to be revenue imagined and reevaluated so that that we haven't heard from that the technical evaluators to know where they stood on that issue. And so maybe there have been, there might have been a gap in this, in this episode, but hopefully going forward it's not going to be these 5:5pm White House calls on products.

[Becky Quick]

The things that's so weird about this is on the one hand we want to be the leader in AI. We want to be out there first. We want to not give any ground. And the Trump administration has been seen as more open to that than the Biden administration was. That's just the overall assumption that you get from outside of Washington on these things. But at the same time, Anthropic has run into problems with the Trump administration time and time again, and they seem to be at the forefront of AI when it comes to enterprise and what can be done with some of these things. So it seems like they keep running into walls, whether it's with the Defense Department and having, you know, a different ideology than people within the Defense Department. And I guess the question is, where do we stand at this point? Are we in favor of pushing this out there, or are we in favor of having pretty tight regulation to make sure that we are being safe rather than pushing to be the leader?

[Aneesh Chopra]

We're back where we've had a conversation in the past where there's a voluntary commitment by the frontier model companies to provide their models with President Trump's 30 day advance notice for technical review, and that ideally they would be working collaboratively to surface problems and address them before those products come to market. Something fell short in this release. The hope is that it is the exception and not the norm and that we'll have common order where that process is just put in place more solidly. Because obviously from this moment forward, Becky, every major model will have achieved this level of capability. It won't be an anthropic personality issue. I think we've heard from the AI advisor, David Sacks, that this is separate from the DoD war matter. So I trust that that is that the other one felt more of a personality. You've had this conversation on your show, as this one clearly is something that looks more of like a technical gap.

[Joe Kernan]

It's not all the former Biden and all the woke. No, that's not what. Because the President definitely looks at things, you know, he can't help everything, informs his opinions on everything, it seems like. And you saw what Amadi said in that. Who was he talking to? Shareholders or. It was interview, you know, internal employee. Internal employee. It was like it sounded like, you know, Joy Behar.

[Aneesh Chopra]

I get it. But, but, but if you look, your audience is very sophisticated to understand how do we make this capability work for the economy and have America's, you know, innovation ecosystem thrive. That story is. I want to separate the ideology matter and the personality matter. Department of war issue feels a lot more like that. It's kind of frustrating and sad that that situation has even happened. But this matter I would think of as more substantive. There are technical experts the President's put in place. They're doing their job. And I have confidence that while I wouldn't love would not have loved the export control blunt instrument. I feel like the security team felt they didn't have a choice because of the nature of that exchange. So we got to improve that process. Joe. It's not about Anthropic One company. This is going to be every model from here forward having to figure this out.

[Becky Quick]

Okay.

[Joe Kernan]

Yeah, Anthropic's on my Shih Tzu list anyway, from yesterday from Claude.

[Becky Quick]

Oh, they didn't know what year.

[Joe Kernan]

They didn't know what year it was.

[Aneesh Chopra]

Grok. Grok will give you real time information, Joe, because it's got like, it's got the Twitter stream, so it's got the real time. So.

[Joe Kernan]

Right, right. All right.

[Aneesh Chopra]

There you go.

[Joe Kernan]

It's 2020. Was I wrong? Is it

[Becky Quick]

correct?

[Joe Kernan]

Wednesday.

[David Albright]

Oh boy.

[Becky Quick]

Aneesh. Thank you very much. We appreciate it.

[Aneesh Chopra]

Thank you for having me.

[Narrator/Host]

And that is Squawk Pod for today. Thanks for listening. Squawkbox is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick, and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Tune in weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 Eastern to get the smartest takes and analysis from our TV show right into your ears. Follow Squawk Pod wherever you get your podcasts and listen anytime you want. We'll meet you right back here tomorrow.

[Aneesh Chopra]

We are clear.

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