Anthropic’s Fight & The AI Job Revolution 3/11/26

Summary

Squawk Pod Summary

Episode: Anthropic’s Fight & The AI Job Revolution
Date: March 11, 2026
Hosts: Joe Kernen, Becky Quick, Andrew Ross Sorkin
Guests: Dario Amodei (Anthropic CEO), Andrew Yang, Robert Frank

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Episode Overview

This episode of Squawk Pod is packed with high-stakes discussions at the crossroads of artificial intelligence, geopolitics, labor markets, and the evolving behavior of ultra-wealthy investors. Key focuses include Anthropic’s legal battle with the Pentagon (and Microsoft’s unprecedented public support), a deep dive into the AI-driven job revolution (with analysis from Andrew Yang), and insight into the latest wealth moves as turmoil and volatility drive collectors to auction blocks.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Anthropic vs. Pentagon: Microsoft’s Unusual Stand

Timestamps: 08:11 – 18:29

• Background: Anthropic has been targeted as a “supply chain risk” by the Defense Department. Microsoft filed an amicus brief supporting Anthropic, urging a judge to block the Pentagon’s designation (which could hurt existing contracts).
• Significance:
  • Microsoft is a major government contractor—its open support is described as highly unusual and possibly "a watershed moment" for the tech industry.
  • Amazon, also an early Anthropic investor, has not shown public support, reflecting broader industry nervousness about standing up to the Trump administration.
  • “They have more to lose, interestingly, than just about anybody else” (Joe Kernen, 09:35).
  • Tech peer companies and Silicon Valley developers have filed their own briefs supporting Anthropic, as a warning signal: “There but for the grace of God go us…” (Dario Amodei, 10:47).
  • Competitive responses: Elon Musk has publicly mocked Anthropic, and Sam Altman appears less openly hostile, positioning OpenAI as an alternative Pentagon provider.
• Politics and Perception:
  • Conflict fueled by blurred lines between company values, accusations of “wokeness,” and anxieties about AI being used for controversial military purposes.
  • “Not wanting to be involved with the mass surveillance of United States citizens does not seem like…” (Becky Quick, 14:58)
  • Anthropic and Microsoft’s actions are framed as truly values-based, with Kernen suggesting: “I actually think this could be one of those watershed moments where we actually say… standing up for your values in an environment where you’re not supposed to is actually going to help this company.” (Joe Kernen, 16:25)
• Market and Industry Implications:
  • Engineers and partners are gravitating toward Anthropic, attracted by perceived integrity and willingness to challenge the status quo.
  • The immediate trigger was confusion—and market whiplash—over a deleted government social media post about military escorts in the Strait of Hormuz, reflecting the volatility and high stakes at play.
  • “The market trades off of every word that is posted anywhere on any of these areas. That’s the volatility that you’re watching.” (Becky Quick, 04:58)

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2. The AI Job Revolution: Andrew Yang on What’s Coming

Timestamps: 20:11 – 28:29

• Explosive AI Progress:
  • “What we’re going to see in the next six months outstrips what we’ve seen in the last 10 years because the rate of change is on a hockey stick.” (Andrew Yang, 20:45)
  • Autonomous enterprise coding is surging—one company’s revenue up 100x in the last year.
• “Learn to code” is dead:
  • “If you rewind… what would we tell young people for a secure career? Learn to code. And now the opposite of that is true.” (Andrew Ross Sorkin quoting, 21:36)
  • New CS grads are struggling to get hired; unemployment/underemployment among college graduates now equal to or higher than non-graduates for the first time in history.
• Yang’s Solution: Tax AI, Not Labor
  • “You tend to tax things that you want to discourage... We should actually try to stop taxing labor... and tax the AIs instead.” (Andrew Yang, 22:17)
  • Yang backs Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei: “We’re going to automate away the white collar jobs and you should tax us”—an extraordinary admission by a tech leader (22:32).
• No Easy Path to Job Replacement:
  • “There is zero chance that this transition is not going to be rough for millions of people.” (Andrew Ross Sorkin, 24:37)
  • White-collar entry-level jobs to be cut; call centers and truck driving flagged as high-risk. The latter—“millions of middle-aged men… If you get to that occupation… you’re going to see, in my opinion, riots in the streets.” (Andrew Ross Sorkin, 25:08)
  • Timeline: The hit to jobs could begin within the next 12 months. “The whole industry right now is bracing for impact…” (Andrew Ross Sorkin, 25:39)
  • Companies are quietly planning staff reductions (15–20% cuts) as AI tools proliferate.
• Management is Losing Control:
  • Companies are unsure how many AI “agents” are deployed—and in some cases, have lost track or have bots rewriting code autonomously. Amazon had to tighten oversight protocols (27:53–28:19).
  • "Every company that doesn't adopt it is going to be seen as backward and retro in a very short period of time." (Andrew Ross Sorkin, 28:28)

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3. Wealth Trends: Art, Cars, and Flight to Safety

Timestamps: 33:32 – 40:13

• Ultra-wealthy Unfazed by Market Volatility:
  • Art and luxury car auctions are breaking records, with London art sales up >50% from last year.
  • “This Francis Bacon self portrait went for over $21 million… nearly twice the estimate.” (Robert Frank, 34:10)
  • Supercars like the Ferrari Enzo ($15 million) and Porsche Carrera GT ($6.7 million) are fetching multiples in recent years.
  • “In this environment where markets are… sort of trading around this range, put it into something that’s just come to market like this Francis Bacon or that car GT… now’s the time to buy it.” (Robert Frank, 36:08)
• Why the Surge?
  • Combination of rare inventory hitting the block and a search for safe, non-market investments as volatility rises and yields fall.
  • The rich “didn’t want to sell your winners” during bull runs, but now may be diversifying “just in case.” (Becky Quick, 35:56)
• Geo-Tax Games:
  • Wealth flight from high-tax states continues, with Florida and Tennessee as refuges—the lure is more than taxes (e.g., “they like the sunshine,” 36:37).
  • “So for a tax regime to change so radically in one year for companies and for the wealthiest…” (Robert Frank, 37:42)
  • Corporations (e.g., Starbucks) and high-net-worth individuals are recalibrating residency, with even New York’s luxury real estate boom driven by non-residents: “They buy, but they don’t live here.” (Becky Quick, 39:37)

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4. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Microsoft’s Move

• “This is fascinating that one of the biggest government contractors… is willing to stand up—even though they have more to lose than anybody.”
  — Joe Kernen (09:35, paraphrased)

The New Job Market Reality

• “If you rewind… what would we tell young people for a secure career? Learn to code. And now the opposite of that is true.”
  — Andrew Ross Sorkin (quoting, 21:36)
• “There is zero chance that this transition is not going to be rough for millions of people.”
  — Andrew Ross Sorkin (24:37)
• "You tend to tax things that you want to discourage... We should actually try to stop taxing labor... and tax the AIs instead."
  — Andrew Yang (22:17)

Potential for Social Unrest

• “If you get to [automating] truck driving… you’re going to see, in my opinion, riots in the streets.”
  — Andrew Ross Sorkin (25:08)

Anthropic’s Cultural Impact

• “You’re seeing it move up the charts… Companies want to work with a company that’s willing to stand up for its values.”
  — Joe Kernen (16:15)

Egalitarianism—Or Annihilation?

• “You don’t even have to think, right? Yeah. And we’re all equal. I mean, that’s the craziest part about what’s about to happen here.”
  — Joe Kernen (31:42)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Time | |-----------------------------------------|-------------| | Anthropic vs. Pentagon (Microsoft) | 08:11–18:29 | | AI Job Revolution (Andrew Yang) | 20:11–28:29 | | Art, Cars, Wealthy Trends (Robert Frank)| 33:32–40:13 | | Tax Flight & New York Discussion | 36:37-40:13 |

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Tone and Style

The tone throughout is dynamic and high-stakes, full of brisk debate, industry insider knowledge, and occasional dry humor. The Squawk Box hosts are candid, occasionally combative, and never shy from raising uncomfortable truths about tech, politics, labor, or wealth. Andrew Yang brings urgency and practical proposals, while Robert Frank provides a reality check on how the richest Americans are navigating turbulence.

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Useful for Listeners Who Missed the Episode:

This episode is a must-listen for anyone following the intersection of AI, government policy, and economic disruption. If you want to know how the world’s most powerful companies are flexing their values (and what risks they’re taking), how AI could rewire the entire notion of “good” jobs, and where the ultra-wealthy are stashing their cash as volatility spikes—this summary captures all the vital beats.

Transcript

[Keith Lansford]

This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] Market Update podcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts.

[Joe Kernen]

Before we had AT&T business Wireless coverage,

[Keith Lansford]

our delivery GPS wasn't the most reliable.

[Joe Kernen]

Once our driver had to do a 14 point turn to get back on route.

[Keith Lansford]

A 14 point turn.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

An influencer even livestreamed the whole thing.

[Dario Amodei]

Not good for business.

[Joe Kernen]

Now with AT&T business Wireless, routes are updating on the fly and deliveries are on time.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And the influencer did get us 53 new followers though.

[Joe Kernen]

AT&T business Wireless connecting changes everything. Bring in show music please.

[Katie Kramer]

Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod, the technology story that won't quit. Anthropic has a new friend in its fight against the Pentagon, Microsoft. Will this change how big companies handle Trump 2.0?

[Joe Kernen]

I actually think this could be one of those watershed moments where we actually say, you know what, standing up for your values in an environment where you're not supposed to is actually going to

[Katie Kramer]

help this company and the AI trade in the markets. Also driving the jobs picture. Andrew Yang on the risks to early careers.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The easiest people to fire are the people you haven't hired yet.

[Katie Kramer]

What the market volatility has the world's wealthiest ready to buy are Robert Frank on the portfolio stuffers of the moment.

[Robert Frank]

In this environment where markets are sort of trading around this range, put it into something that's just come to market like this Francis Bacon or that carrard GT that, you know, kind of a once in a generation thing that comes up for auction, now's the time to buy it.

[Joe Kernen]

Plus then there was the delete button.

[Katie Kramer]

The rest of today's news that got us squawking it is Wednesday, March 11, 2026. Squawk Pot begins right now.

[Joe Kernen]

Stand Becky by in 3, 2, 1. Q please.

[Becky Quick]

Good morning everybody. Welcome to Squawk Box right here on cnbc. We are live from the NASDAQ marketsite in Times Square. I'm Becky Quick along with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorkin and we're paying

[Joe Kernen]

close attention right now to energy. Multiple reports say the International Energy Agency proposing what could be its largest ever release of crude reserves to try to moderate prices that have jumped because of the Straits of Hormuz and is effectively, of course at this point is basically closed. The IEA is 32 countries set to decide on a possible release today. Now, WTI coming off of its biggest daily loss in four years, it fell nearly 12% but had dropped much more earlier in the day. And then there was the delete button. US Energy Secretary Chris Wright had said the following on X. He said that the Navy had escorted a tanker through the Strait of Hormuz. That post then vanished, though within minutes. The White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt telling reporters that the Navy had not guided any vessels.

[Katie Kramer]

Can you explain why the Energy Secretary

[Becky Quick]

posted and then appeared to have deleted

[Katie Kramer]

a post on X saying that the US Navy escorted an oil tanker through this to interpret. Yes, I was made aware of this post. I haven't had a chance to talk to the Energy Secretary about it directly. However, I know the post was taken down pretty quickly and I can confirm that the US Navy has not escorted a tanker or a vessel at this time. Though of course that's an option the President has said he will absolutely utilize if and when necessary at the appropriate time.

[Joe Kernen]

Department of Energy spokesperson said, quote, A video clip was deleted from Secretary Wright's official X account after it was determined to be incorrectly captioned by Department of Energy staff Meantime on Truth Social President Trump threatening more military action if Iran places mines in the Strait of Hormuz. In a mid afternoon post, the President said the US had destroyed a number of inactive mine laying ships. And earlier this morning the US maritime trade operation said three vessels off Iran's coast had been struck by projectiles, including one in the Straits of Hormuz that caused a fire on board and forced the crew to. To evacuate. What is really happening over there?

[Dario Amodei]

Well, it would just be a bad. If they mind the straits, they've got plenty of minds to do it with them yet. But if they did, it's.

[Joe Kernen]

But can we talk about this?

[Dario Amodei]

I mean it would take.

[Joe Kernen]

Let's talk about the delete post.

[Dario Amodei]

It would take months to be able to be able to clear.

[Joe Kernen]

What about this deleted post which has whipsawed the entire market?

[Dario Amodei]

It whipsawed it, but it, you know, went from 119 to 88 the day before on a.

[Becky Quick]

That's just incorrect information. And the other thing I would say, the President himself posting that there aren't any mines out there, but if Iran put any mines out there, they better get them out of there. It's just confusing information and I guess that's what happens in a wartime scenario. But the market trades off of every word that is posted anywhere on any of these areas. That's the volatility that you're watching.

[Dario Amodei]

Meanwhile, Axios reporting the White House has asked Israel not to carry out further military strikes on Iran's energy facilities. Among the reasons said to be given by the Trump administration, the strikes could harm the Iranian public. President Trump wants to work with Iran's oil sector after the war and Iran could decide to target other countries energy assets in the Gulf. Tehran has been covered in clouds of black smoke in the past few days following airstrikes on energy facilities raising the possibility of health problems for the Iranian public. And GOP is very sensitive to higher oil and higher energy and midterms and affordability and everything else.

[Joe Kernen]

That's why the question's been whether this would actually how long this would ultimately last.

[Dario Amodei]

Well, that is the question. And it an excursion's one thing. I don't know. I mean that's a strange word to use. Excellent for what it is. Others though are saying initially what, four to six weeks was the plan and we're well ahead of that. So I don't know what does that mean, two to four weeks if you're well ahead of it.

[Becky Quick]

But as some of the guests we spoke with yesterday pointed out, it takes two sides to decide to de escalate.

[Dario Amodei]

Right.

[Becky Quick]

And once this has been put out there, we don't know exactly where it's going to go.

[Joe Kernen]

I think what the White House spokesperson, a spokesman was saying though yesterday was the idea of what surrender is, the idea of even what the end looks like is in her mind, at least the president's mind, a one sided scenario, meaning that he can walk, we can walk when we feel like we're done.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah.

[Dario Amodei]

And you see all the scuttlebutt today is that Israel and Netanyahu want something.

[Joe Kernen]

Well, they're not going to be done. And this is completely different than what we talked to about and we've talked to a number of guests now, have talked about a genuine divergence potentially at some point in this.

[Dario Amodei]

Well, it's, it's splayed out, if you will, splayed out on the COVID of all the newspapers that Israel and the United States want different things for an end game.

[Becky Quick]

And Republican Senator Thom Tillis sticking to his plan to block President Trump's pick to lead the Federal Reserve after Jay Powell until the Department of Justice resolves a criminal investigation into Jay Powell. Tillis sat down with former Fed Governor Kevin Warsh and told reporters that he's impressed with Warsh's skills. But he said he wouldn't still budge. He wouldn't budge on this. His idea that he will not vote to advance Warsh or any other candidate through the Senate Banking Committee without a resolution of the Powell probe. That probe is based on congressional testimony that Powell gave about renovations to the Fed. Powell says that he's being targeted for not cutting interest rates like President Trump wants.

[Joe Kernen]

Microsoft making what in this environment arguably is a very unusual move. It is backing Anthropic in its AI startups fight with the Pentagon, which is more broadly with the Trump administration. In a court filing, Microsoft in what's called an amicus brief, which is a friend of the court, effectively saying a judge should issue a temporary restraining order that would block the Defense Department's designation of Anthropic as a supply chain risk for all existing contracts. Without an order, Microsoft warning that it and other companies would have to act quickly to change existing product and contract configurations used by the Pentagon. In November, Microsoft announced plans to invest up to $5 billion in anthropic. It's worth noting a couple of things here. There's about 130 developers in Silicon Valley that have also filed a friend of the court amicus brief in support of Anthropic. No other major tech company has done such a thing. I mean, we talk about, you know, I always talk about CEO silence. This is a very interesting situation because Microsoft happens to be one of the biggest government contractors in the country. So when you start to think about what true retribution looks like and also truly standing up looks like, when you actually care about what you're doing, they have more to lose, interestingly, than just about anybody else. Even more interesting, Amazon, which happens to be one of the earliest investors in Anthropic, in apparently reportedly in a meeting with Pete Hegseth. Andy Jassy did not support Anthropic. And arguably you could make the argument that he and other companies like his have been scared about standing up to this administration. So this is fascinating that the biggest government, one of the biggest government contractors. Now, arguably I'm imagining that part of the sort of calculus to do such a thing is that Microsoft says we're in everybody's business, meaning we are so locked in to the government. It is going to be very hard for Pete Hegseth or for the President to say, well, now we're going to rip Microsoft out of all of our systems, because that would be supremely painful. But I've talked about how I think this legal case is somewhat open and Shut. And I think you're going to see, I think this could be a watershed in terms of other people.

[Dario Amodei]

It's going to be a 10% of teapot. It's not going to happen. And companies also are going to realize there but for the grace of God

[Becky Quick]

go us what happens with Palantir.

[Dario Amodei]

In other words, if you let it happen to Anthropic, maybe you don't want to say anything, but you know, down the road it could come back. Political considerations could, I think, by the way, did you, did you read this fascinating piece? This guy goes back, this guy goes back to, I don't know, 100 years to a similar situation about a weapon system in the UK and they did a similar thing, ended up missing out on, on one of the biggest moves, cut off their nose despite their face. And the whole good for China. That's what they're saying. If you take one of the top companies, Anthropic, in developing things and you basically make it much more difficult for them to advance and to do business and I mean it could be in anything they want to do in an

[Joe Kernen]

arms,

[Dario Amodei]

basically an arms race. I don't think it's going to happen though. I think eventually that Pete Higgs, at

[Becky Quick]

this point, that would be my guess. My guess is at some point there's going to be a resolution that's reached. Palantir uses Maven software that is operated by Anthropic. You start to think through the implications of what that would mean. You know who's not been silent on this? Elon Musk, who's a competitor, obviously, yes, he wants business. He said is there a more hypocritical company than Anthropic is something that he posted on X in the last 50 years.

[Joe Kernen]

But he has been trolling. He's been.

[Becky Quick]

So has Altman, who moved to be very opportunistic by stepping in and picking this up.

[Joe Kernen]

So their top competitors have been pretty happy. Sam, I have a slightly different view of because Sams actually was on our air. The Pentagon needs AI models, they need AI partners. This is like clear. And I think Anthropic and others have said they understand that as well. I don't personally think the Pentagon should be threatening DPA against these companies, but I also think that companies that choose to work with the Pentagon as long as it is going to comply with legal protections and the sort of the few red lines that the field that we have, I think we share with Anthropic and that other companies also independently agree with, I think it is Important to do that. I've been. For all the differences I have with Anthropic, I mostly trust them as a company, and I think they really do care about safety, and I've been happy that they've been supporting our warfighters. I'm not sure where this is going to go and publicly actually supportive of Anthropic. And if you actually go and look at the deal that he brokered, which I have suggested is so unusual because it basically is the same deal in. Which is, to me, it is demonstrative of how political the decision was by this administration and Pete Hegseth and the Treasury Department and every other piece of this government that's now decided to apologize

[Becky Quick]

because he said it looked like they were being very opportunistic, which it did. They signed the same deal a day later.

[Joe Kernen]

Later, no question. But. But at the same time, I think if you. If you go look at what Sam has said repeatedly, he is not trolling Anthropic. He's actually. He's not been supportive in the context of clearly trying to get a deal too, by the way. I think it's actually good for the government to have multiple deals. The idea that you're exclusive to one. What happened with these services or the other is not.

[Dario Amodei]

What was the initial anger that the Defense Department or Department of War gleaned from. From Anthropic in the Maduro raid? Was there a complaint from Anthropic that their AI was used? And they said, we don't want it used in something like.

[Joe Kernen]

They asked the question about whether it was used.

[Dario Amodei]

Right. And where was that?

[Joe Kernen]

Where was Palantir?

[Dario Amodei]

Right. And that was.

[Joe Kernen]

Palantir said. Yeah, said, yes. This is used and used in targeting. And what you had was you had Emile Michael get very frustrated and angry A, that Anthropic was asking the question.

[Dario Amodei]

Yeah.

[Joe Kernen]

B, that maybe Palantir was providing the answer, arguing that that was classified information that Anthropic shouldn't know one way or the other.

[Dario Amodei]

All right, so that kind of started.

[Joe Kernen]

It's just the relationship.

[Dario Amodei]

But the internal memo and the dictator. That was stupid.

[Joe Kernen]

That was stupid.

[Dario Amodei]

But it doesn't take away a frustrated leader.

[Becky Quick]

Feels like they're getting shut down.

[Dario Amodei]

And it does have the. You know, they mentioned the word woke about 100 times there. It does have the perception of. Of having a lot of ex Biden.

[Becky Quick]

I don't know. Not wanting to be involved with the mass surveillance of the United States citizens does not seem like.

[Dario Amodei]

Well, that's only one of the autonomous people. Well, that's what whether it's right or wrong it is to Pete Hegseth in

[Joe Kernen]

an offense that might be. But the reason why that doesn't seem to be true actually why that is actually just a false.

[Dario Amodei]

Then what are they mad? Then why don't they.

[Joe Kernen]

The reason it's a false idea is they were willing to accept virtually as I said, the exact same terms from OpenAI. So if you believe.

[Dario Amodei]

But OpenAI didn't say, you know, I'm not going to bend my knee to a dictator open.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What's the.

[Joe Kernen]

You're saying because of the memo we're talking. That was.

[Dario Amodei]

I think I know but I just think all of it in total puts it's a target.

[Joe Kernen]

Right. I understand the politics are the problem. That is the problem.

[Dario Amodei]

I got it but I understand it.

[Joe Kernen]

But what I think is arguably even a bigger problem is the fact that an Amazon or some of these other companies don't feel comfortable to stand up and say this is. This is cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. And you have a company like Microsoft who happens to do that. So I'm giving some credit this morning to Microsoft for actually being able, being willing to stand up and say what they actually believe. By the way, the other thing that's been fascinating is a lot of engineers want to now go work for Anthropic.

[Dario Amodei]

You said that the other day.

[Joe Kernen]

You're seeing it move up the charts. You're seeing company. By the way, companies want to work with a company that's willing to stand up for its values.

[Becky Quick]

So is it going to hurt it, you think in the long term?

[Joe Kernen]

I think it's possible. It doesn't hurt it in the long term that it actually that I actually think this could be one of those watershed moments where we actually say, you know what, standing up for your values in an environment where you're not supposed to is actually going to help this company. And that's what this company was sort of built on. It was a company that left OpenAI the founders left open because they wanted to build a company that they thought was genuinely values based. And guess what? They've actually stood up for them. They have not bent and I think there's a lot of value to that. And by the way, now Microsoft's doing it too.

[Becky Quick]

But their software was integrated into, well, Karp's Palantir and let's see, for targeting and things too. These are all degrees of gray 100%.

[Joe Kernen]

And that's why it's so interesting to see a company come out and say let's Try to reach a different deal.

[Dario Amodei]

Well, it's not that. I mean, you've seen a lot of people on anthropic side, a lot of people.

[Joe Kernen]

By the way, there is a possibility, others have even speculated, unfortunately, that this terrible tragedy where these kids were targeted, that it might have been on a list that was either generated, approved by, or something through the anthropic system. Meaning you do now have AI.

[Becky Quick]

That's what I mean.

[Joe Kernen]

We don't know identifying different targets.

[Dario Amodei]

You mean it made a mistake?

[Joe Kernen]

Yeah, it may be. But by the way, may also be a good example of what Dario has been saying, which is that it's not ready. It's not ready. It may not be ready for prime time to be used especially for autonomous weapons and autonomous decisions. Meaning forgetting about people in the loop. He's basically saying if there's no people in the loop, this doesn't work.

[Becky Quick]

Right.

[Joe Kernen]

And you may have a military that's not doing that. By the way, you have a military that clearly is saying it doesn't want that on one side and yet is willing to accept that by using OpenAI. Explain that.

[Dario Amodei]

Well, it wasn't targeted. We're not sure exactly what happened.

[Joe Kernen]

Tease will be next.

[Katie Kramer]

Coming up on Squawk Pod, the generational shift in jobs due to artificial intelligence. Serial entrepreneur and sometime politician Andrew Yang is our guest.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What four years ago, what would we tell young people for a secure career learned to code. And now the opposite of that is true.

[Keith Lansford]

This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Landsford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions, and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] MarketUpdatePodcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts.

[Katie Kramer]

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[Joe Kernen]

Sometimes AT&T business Wireless Connecting changes everything.

[Katie Kramer]

There's a fire inside you you can't ignore. Stand still. Not a chance. You're a lifelong learner who's come this far. Now we are here to help you keep going. Further capella University. What can't you do? Visit Capella Eduardo to learn more. This is Squawk Pod, Stand and or

[Joe Kernen]

by in 3, 2, 1, up and Andrew Q. Here's Mike. You're watching Squawk Box right here on cnbc. I'm Andrew Ossorkin along with Joe Kernan and Becky Quick. Joining us right now is Andrew Yang. He's the founder and CEO of Noble Mobile, a former Democratic candidate, president and New York City's mayor. He's also the author of hey, Yang, Where's My Thousand Bucks? Which debuted last month. Good morning to you. You got the book right here. We got about a million things to talk to you about AI. We want to talk about New York. We're going to talk about taxes. Where do you want to start this morning?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I just came from an AI conference out west and holy cow, they said to me that what we're going to see in the next six months outstrips what we've seen in the last 10 years because the rate of change is on a hockey stick. And I gotta say, I'm pretty up to date on this stuff and it blew my mind on some of the stuff I was seeing.

[Joe Kernen]

In terms of what, what did you see?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, there was one company that is selling autonomous coding for enterprises to big businesses and their revenue is up 100 fold in the last 12 months. So if that continues, it's going to eat a lot of the tech budgets from major corporates that used to go to humans. And so you're seeing the employment of recent computer science graduates fall off a cliff from a lot of programs. If you rewind, what, four years ago, what would we tell young people for a secure career, learn to code. And now the opposite of that is true.

[Joe Kernen]

So where are you on jobs long term?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Look, Dario Amadei, the CEO of Anthropic, laid it out very clearly and he's been doing so repeatedly, saying we're going to automate away up to 50% of entry level white collar jobs in the next several years. And I believe him, the easiest people to fire are the people you haven't hired yet. Which again is why you see the hiring of recent college graduates heading down and the underemployment rate over 50%, the unemployment rate among college graduates is now the same or higher than non college graduates for the first time in history.

[Becky Quick]

How do we fix that? I mean, what's. You're a guy with big ideas. Universal Basic Income was one of yours. How do we fix this entire issue?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Check it out, Check it out. You Tend to tax things that you want to discourage, that you want less of. And we're going to be in a position where we want to shore up labor in every quarter, in every organization and environment. We should actually try to stop taxing

[Becky Quick]

labor because it tax the agents instead.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The iaas. Yes, exactly, Becky. And by the way, Dario Amade, the second half of his statement, he said, we're going to automate away the white collar jobs and you should tax us. And since when does the CEO of a major company raise his hand and say, hey, tax me and mine? Because he sees the writing on the wall and he knows that there's this massive backlash coming their way.

[Becky Quick]

An interesting idea.

[Joe Kernen]

How would you do it? And there's going to be an argument. Dario may be on one side, but I imagine some of the other big tech companies are going to say, please don't tax us. We need this to sort of reach some kind of escape velocity. First. We don't want to, you know, we're in this fight with China. We need to get ahead of everybody. This is a little bit of the argument made around, frankly, retail sales in the Internet age, if you recall.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The argument I would make, Andrew, is that escape velocity has been achieved. I mean, these models are now going to be able to improve on their own. You know, like, we did it, we made it. And the competition with China is not going to be won or lost based on the last $10 spent, if you know what I mean. At this point, we're going to win or lose based upon the ability of these companies to improve on their models, which right now is not tied to. In my view, the biggest danger is this backlash that Dario is concerned about. And the backlash is going to get more and more pronounced as people wake up and have their kids coming back from college and living in the basement. And the implicit social contract of the American way is being. Being fractured.

[Dario Amodei]

When you hear someone say, oh, you know, every other disruption, it's always better. It always. There's more jobs after technological innovation. And I keep hearing that. And it just seems to be getting more and more difficult to believe that this time it's going to be like that.

[Joe Kernen]

Is it.

[Dario Amodei]

Are there so many jobs going to be created from AI that we're going to replace, what, 50% of white collar? Gentlemen, is there any way that this is not a net negative for employment?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

There is zero chance that this transition is not going to be rough for millions of people.

[Dario Amodei]

They're always rough. But then we get through it. And, you know, buggy whips and then you're making carburetors. But this time I just don't see

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

like rough with a capital R and exclamation point and a giant underline. I mean, some numbers, but people know some of this. There's still over 2 million Americans who work at call centers right now. And we know AI is going to decimate that job, the big one. And Jamie Dimon referenced this just the other day. If you get to truck driving, then all bets are off because this is the number one job in 28 states. You're talking about millions of middle aged men, for the most part, 10 to 15% of whom are military veterans. A lot of them are gun owners. So if you get to that occupation, then you're going to see, in my opinion, riots in the streets.

[Becky Quick]

Forget about Uber drivers, people who are picking that up.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Uber drivers too, Becky. And by the way, that's a supplemental income for a lot of people, millions of Americans.

[Joe Kernen]

How far do you think this is out before it hits?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, so I might have said a certain time frame, Andrew, after this conference, it's in the next 12 months. The whole industry right now is bracing for impact and they, they see it more clearly. I mean, one of the things my friends in Silicon Valley say is like, you know, this K shaped economy that you all talk about, there's a kind of K shaped reaction to the AI curve where some of them are not sleeping and just sitting there and becoming superpowered on these tools and seeing what they can do. And then the other people are moving to the woods. Literally that's the reaction from the people closest to this moving to the woods

[Becky Quick]

because they don't know what's going to happen and they're afraid of the fire

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

moving to the woods because they see that their skills are now obsolete and they made typically enough money where if they move to an affordable part of the country, they can hunker down, pack

[Becky Quick]

it up, and we're out.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

By the way, the property values in Silicon Valley are going to head down as people get jettisoned from these companies. Block laid off 40% of their workers the other day. Their stock popped 24%, I think.

[Joe Kernen]

So the playbook is how much do you think that. So to me, the block thing might be a head fake because I think there was a real question about how just mismanaged the whole business.

[Becky Quick]

They overhiered during the pandemic.

[Joe Kernen]

Right. And so there you have the situation where it's unclear how much of it really is. I, I'm not suggesting, by the way, AI is no, no feature.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I get it.

[Joe Kernen]

But I think there's sort of a. With that example, which I think we're now using, is sort of like the headline. There's sort of an interesting nuance. It may very well be that it's the canary in the coal mine, if you will, because we'll see other companies do something similar that are not mismanaged or Warren as Ms.

[Dario Amodei]

Wait, it's okay, cut it to 20. It's no way. It's. It's great. I mean, Dorsey was at Twitter where, you know, they got rid of 80% and nothing happened. So.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yes, and I agree with you, Andrew. There's nuance in that particular company, but there's no nuance to how the stock market is reacting to layoff announcements. And so the savvy CEOs are seeing the writing on the wall. I talked to an executive at a Fortune 500 company. They're removing a whole layer. It hasn't been announced yet. Talking 15 to 20%. CEO of a publicly traded tech company told me privately, 15% this year, 20% two years from now.

[Becky Quick]

Here's the other part of that, though. I've also heard from companies where they say they are trying to figure out what the agents they've unleashed are doing very publicly Amazon, what they've just kind of gone through, where those agents were rewriting code without really asking permission in some cases. Other people I've talked to at companies have said we don't even know how many of them are out there or what would happen if we tried to shut them down.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

There are going to be some real implementation problems and bumps in the road. And I think the Amazon protocol of having a senior hire, senior engineer sign off on code before it launches is going to be adopted by other companies at the same time. Again, you have this autonomous code company having its revenue shoot up and up because this is the future. And every company that doesn't adopt it is going to be seen as backward and retro in a very short period of time.

[Joe Kernen]

Separate question for you. Have you been following this whole anthropic Pentagon situation with Microsoft, did the Simicus brief this morning? Yeah.

[Dario Amodei]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I mean, it's crucial. And I think a settlement gets hammered out.

[Joe Kernen]

I mean, you think a settlement gets hammered out between the government and Anthropic on Anthropic's terms?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, I think that anthropic is a very strong legal case because the government is simultaneously saying, hey, we want to use your stuff, we are using your stuff. And then your stuff is unsafe because you're somehow like a foreign actor and like those three things don't exist in the same bucket. And also some of the government statements have clearly made it seem like this is more for speech, speech and First Amendment issues and that you're truly a foreign actor. I mean, they're not a foreign actor. It's an American company. So I think that it does get hammered out before the legal resolution. But I think Anthropic is a very, very solid case.

[Joe Kernen]

You want to talk about New York? What do you think's happening here in New York in terms of taxes, in terms of businesses coming? I mean, a lot of people were out there against this current mayor when he was running, saying if he shows up on the scene, people are going to run for the hills or run for Miami or wherever you think they're running. And yet we've now had so many people come on recently, and I hear it, by the way, even when they're not on talking their own book, that there's businesses that are coming here right now in droves. That doesn't mean that the billionaires are all coming here, maybe living down in Miami and flying here for a couple of days a week. But what do you think is really happening?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

My friends haven't moved yet, let's put it that way, Andrew. And there's still like a wait and see attitude among some of them.

[Dario Amodei]

Thoroughly.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah, that's been. The attitude is like, hey, I'm still seeing where he goes in this direction. I will say, and if you're listening, Zoran, the major data point for my friends and a lot of people like them, is whether Police Commissioner Tisch stays on. That to them is like the single biggest public concern because Zoran has a, let's say, uneven relationship with the rank and file police officers who like and admire their commissioner.

[Joe Kernen]

And he seems to be sticking with her and she seems to be sticking with him. I would imagine she sticks it out in part because she wants to be the next mayor.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So, you know, I don't think, sorry, Jessica, if this is out of turn, but, like, I don't think she has that as her vision.

[Joe Kernen]

Okay.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I think if she sticks around, it's because she knows the city needs her. Jessica, please don't go anywhere because the city needs you. That, to me, is one of the single biggest determinants of of Zoron's future as mayor.

[Joe Kernen]

And you don't think that she could become the mayor in the future?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I think she'd have a great chance, but I don't think that's the role she sees for herself. That's what I'd suggest.

[Dario Amodei]

So people all learned how to code and now it's you?

[Katie Kramer]

Yes.

[Dario Amodei]

I feel so good about myself. I know I'm tied. I'm tied with all the people that.

[Becky Quick]

Just thinking of the girls who code programs and everything that we.

[Dario Amodei]

I know nothing. I can't code. But we're all equal.

[Joe Kernen]

You can't write either. And now we're all equal.

[Dario Amodei]

I know.

[Joe Kernen]

You don't even have to think, right? Yeah. And we're all equal. I mean, that's the craziest part about what's about to happen here.

[Dario Amodei]

You've always wanted an egalitarian society, haven't you?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

More egalitarian. Sure, Joe. And one of the things I'm going to suggest is that, look, I'm a serial entrepreneur. CEO of a company.

[Becky Quick]

Andrew, thank you. They're rolling us out.

[Katie Kramer]

We'll be right back.

[Keith Lansford]

This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Landsford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] MarketUpdatePodcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts.

[Katie Kramer]

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AT&T business Wireless connecting changes everything.

[Katie Kramer]

There's a fire inside you you can't ignore. Stand still. Not a chance. You're a lifelong learner who's come this far. Now we are here to help you keep going further. Capella University. What can't you do? Visit Capella. Edu to learn more. You're listening to Squawk Pod from CNBC with Joe, Becky and Andrew. Here's Becky Quick.

[Becky Quick]

Wealthy collectors not showing any signs of slowing down as art and car auctions break more records. Robert Frank joins us with today's Inside wealth report. Good morning, Robert.

[Robert Frank]

Good morning, Becky. Great to see you. Well, you could call it an investment flight to safety or just continued consumer confidence by the wealthy. Auction sales of everything from Picasso's to Porsches, posting records last week. Despite all that market volatility. Now, art auction sales in London totaling more than $550 million. That was up over 50% from last year's similar sales. Take a look at what sold this Francis Bacon self portrait went for over $21 million. That was nearly twice the estimate. It was sold by the British billionaire and investor Joe Louis. Christie's meanwhile racking up sales of over $320 million in London, including this Henry Moore sculpture called King and Queen that went for $35 million. Bidders coming from 40 countries for these auctions, although Americans continue to power the high end of the art market now here in the U.S. meanwhile, last week the classic car market powered to new records. At Amelia island in Florida. Broad Arrow Auctions holding its biggest auction ever, totaling $111 million. Modern supercars are going parabolic. For instance, this 2003 Ferrari Enzo went for $15 million. Those prices more than tripling over the past few years. And this Porsche Carrera gt, they made only one of these in the Gulf racing blue. That went for 6.7 million. That's the highest price ever paid for that model. Now some say the wealthy are turning to time tested collectibles as financial markets become more volatile. Others say it's the rare quality of the art and cars that are coming up for sale sale that is now bringing in the buyers.

[Becky Quick]

Robert, that was going to be my question for you. Is this that people are looking for alternatives to the market? Is this the market is at these really high levels and they feel like they've got a lot of paper gains that they can play with or is it just better stuff?

[Robert Frank]

It seems to be better stuff because remember when the stock markets were up in 2023 and 2024 by 20 plus percent, the art market was in decline. So, so those who look at this and say, well, the rich are getting richer, they want stuff to spend. That wasn't the case for two and a half years when the market was declined.

[Becky Quick]

So maybe, maybe you didn't want to sell your winners when you felt like there was this huge boom and no questions about anything and going up and up and up. Once questions start getting raised about some of those things, it's like maybe I should take my.

[Robert Frank]

That's the other great point is that the opportunity costs of not being in the market, not having, you know, interest rates are coming down. So the investment opportunities now are less than you say, look, I'd rather in this environment where markets are sort of trading around this range, put it into something that's just come to Market like this Francis Bacon or that car GT that you know is kind of a once in generation thing that comes up for auction, now's the time to buy it. So it could be both those things.

[Dario Amodei]

So Howard Schultz says they're moving because they like the sunshine, enjoying the sunshine of South Florida and it's a lure to our kids on the east coast as they raise families of their own.

[Robert Frank]

So Howard Schultz taxes have nothing to do with it.

[Dario Amodei]

I don't, did he mentioned. I don't see the T word.

[Robert Frank]

He didn't mention the tax. We're going to have a longer conversation on Friday about what's happening in the tax picture and what's happening in Washington, California, what's happening in New York here because there's, there's going to be in the next week or two rising pressure on Albany to raise taxes of some kind here in New York.

[Joe Kernen]

I don't know if you noticed by the way, Starbucks itself, the corporation said they were Tennessee. Right. Not the entire company, but they were slowly headquartered. You could see how this is all moving. So Nashville, just an example of it.

[Becky Quick]

They like country music.

[Robert Frank]

Washington is so extreme because this was a state that was one of only nine in the country, zero income tax. So to go from zero to 9.9 when so many business only on people

[Becky Quick]

making over a million dollars.

[Robert Frank]

Only on people making over a million dollars. But if you have a one time capital gain of that, it's a lot of money. And so for a tax regime to change so radically in one year for companies for the wealthiest. When Jeff Bezos started Amazon, he looked around for many things and decided this was going to be the state. In part.

[Joe Kernen]

I thought the big reason that he

[Robert Frank]

was it was the retail tax.

[Joe Kernen]

I thought the even bigger reason was Microsoft was based there and he wanted to take their talent that that could have. At that point there were a lot of great engineers had moved to Seattle because they all wanted to be at Microsoft. Now it may very well be that, well, Bill Gates grew up in Seattle. So I don't think this sort of move to Seattle was necessarily a tax.

[Robert Frank]

At the time he moved you only paid taxes on sales in the state in which your headquarter did.

[Dario Amodei]

Right.

[Robert Frank]

Amazon felt like they would have a lot of sales outside of the state, but not a lot in Washington state. So that was when we think if

[Dario Amodei]

you think if you do well and you live in New Jersey and you were, you know, makeover whatever it is to get to that Phil Murphy tax, what is that? It's, it's a Little.

[Robert Frank]

The top is 10 million.

[Dario Amodei]

Okay, so let's say you made, I don't know, multiple million dollars a year and you moved to Florida. Yeah. You can get one of those penthouse high rises free.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah, that's, that's. I had a conversation with someone two nights ago who's doing just that. That was looking down variables.

[Robert Frank]

But I'm saying bake into their calculations is the very high property taxes in Florida.

[Dario Amodei]

So you know, my only point was if it goes the other way, you're sitting there just minding your own business in Seattle and you're hit with the opposite of moving to Florida. All of a sudden you got to come up with hundreds of thousands of dollars a year basically, if you make.

[Joe Kernen]

I can't wait to talk to you about this on Friday. We also got to get into the fact that we just had the CEO of SL Green on the broadcast. All these real estate guys in New York say that everyone's coming to New York even after they argued for because

[Robert Frank]

they're not tax residents here.

[Becky Quick]

So they buy, but they don't live here.

[Robert Frank]

So people who say all this demand for rentals and luxury houses in New York is proof that the rich aren't moving, it's not.

[Joe Kernen]

But what about the office space piece?

[Robert Frank]

Well, the office space piece, I mean that is demand. And you think those people know.

[Joe Kernen]

But that's my point. All these companies are trying to buy office space in New York City at a time when we were told repeatedly the office market going to have an exodus. None of these companies are going to do real business in Miami. I mean that's the other part that's

[Dario Amodei]

put on a happy face. Things are great and my stock's way undervalued.

[Katie Kramer]

Yep, playing us right to the end of Squawkpod today. Thank you for sticking with us. Thanks for listening. Squawkbox is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Tune in weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 Eastern. Follow squawkpod wherever you get your podcasts and let us know what you think. Please rate or write a brief review on Apple Podcasts or find us on Xquawk cnbc. Tell us what you think. Have a great Wednesday. We'll meet you right back here tomorrow.

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