Blackstone’s Steve Schwarzman & House Minority Leader Jeffries 12/18/25

Summary

Squawk Pod Episode Summary

Episode: Blackstone’s Steve Schwarzman & House Minority Leader Jeffries
Date: December 18, 2025
Host: CNBC (Becky Quick, Andrew Ross Sorkin, Mike Santoli)

Overview

This episode centers around two major themes:

1. A retrospective and future outlook with Blackstone CEO/co-founder Steve Schwarzman, touching on innovation, data centers, AI, private credit, and macroeconomic views.
2. A deep dive into the ongoing health care policy debate in Congress with House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, including Affordable Care Act subsidy extensions and broader economic issues.
   The episode threads these discussions with broader market news and the intersection of politics, business, and cultural memes (“67”).

---

Key Segments and Insights

1. News Recap and Market Updates

• Trump’s Economic Speech:
  • President Trump touts declining prices (e.g., “The price of eggs is down 82% since March…” [02:43]) and announces $1,776 bonus checks for military personnel.
  • Preview of a new, pro-lower-interest Fed chair nomination [03:36].
• Health Care Policy Hot Seat:
  • Four centrist House Republicans join Democrats to force a vote on extending ACA subsidies [04:11].
  • Republican-led health package, minus subsidies, advances [04:54].
• Tech and AI Market Moves:
  • OpenAI in talks for a $750 billion valuation, possibly raising $100B [05:27].
  • Commentary on private vs. public market dynamics for tech unicorns.
• Instacart and AI Pricing Scrutiny:
  • FTC investigates Instacart over variable pricing linked to AI tools; discussion likens it to airline and Uber “surge” tactics, raising consumer fairness concerns [06:27–08:21].
• Corporate Deal: Trump Media Merger:
  • Trump Media to merge with fusion power company TAE Technologies, a $6B all-stock deal; speculative assessment of the rationale behind the unconventional deal [09:31–10:44].
• The “67” Meme:
  • Southwest promo features $67 fares, riffing on the “67” meme; panel notes it doesn’t really mean anything—emblematic of ephemeral internet trends [10:45–11:52].

---

2. Interview: House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries

Main Topic: Battle over ACA subsidies and healthcare reform

Key Discussion Points:

• Critique of Republican Policy:
  • "The Republican health care crisis is devastating the American people. And Donald Trump has zero credibility on the issue of health care." (Hakeem Jeffries [15:05])
  • Attacks on Medicaid cuts, SNAP cuts, and tax breaks for "billionaire donors" [15:05, 18:20].
• Fixing vs. Funding Healthcare:
  • Jeffries stresses urgent need to extend ACA tax credits to avoid dramatic premium spikes (“tens of millions of Americans...skyrocketing health insurance premiums, in some cases increasing by $1,000 or $2,000 per month” [16:42]).
  • Acknowledges systemic issues in healthcare needing comprehensive, bipartisan fix but blames GOP inflexibility and extremism for lack of progress.
• Subsidy Income Caps and Bipartisan Support:
  • Jeffries frames current support as bipartisan (“every single House Democrat and at least four House Republicans” [18:20]), but decries delay due to “one big ugly bill” focused on cuts and tax breaks.
  • Dismisses means-testing as a GOP distraction; time of the essence before subsidies expire.
• Senate Prospects:
  • Optimism that a House-passed bill could unlock a Senate deal despite filibuster challenges (“Once we send the bill...the Senate can negotiate a path forward...break the filibuster” [19:44]).
• Tariffs and Supreme Court:
  • Jeffries reiterates opposition to Trump’s expansive tariffs, sees the need for a bipartisan approach if the Supreme Court strikes them down (“...the president has violated his authority. He doesn’t have the emergency authority to implement this random, massive tariff scheme...” [22:48]).

Notable Quotes:

• “We’ve got the votes to pass a straightforward extension and send it over to the Senate. Mike Johnson needs to make sure we vote on this legislation today. The House should not recess or adjourn until this issue has been dealt with.” — Hakeem Jeffries [18:20]
• "Hard work, paying off, playing by the rules, paying off, and the American dream being brought to life is actually realized and revived because far too many people...have concluded...the American dream is out of reach.” — Hakeem Jeffries on economic gravity [21:08]

---

3. Interview: Steve Schwarzman — Blackstone at 40

Main Topic: Blackstone’s growth, innovation, AI/data centers, Fed outlook, and global economic perspectives

Founding and Scale:

• From $400k capital in 1985 to $1.3 trillion in assets and $187B ($240B at peak) market cap [26:39–27:02].
• Emphasis on strategy: continuous innovation, business diversification, and personnel retention via growth and new opportunities (“We never stop innovating, we never stop pushing. We always believe we have smart competitors” [01:06 & 41:57]).

Data Centers and Artificial Intelligence:

• Blackstone’s bet on data centers: QTS acquisition grew 14x in four years since 2021 ($10B deal) [30:23–31:12].
• “We saw that there would be a new world being created by artificial intelligence…It’s a bit like Thomas Edison inventing the use of electricity.” — Steve Schwarzman [30:23]
• Schwarzman dismisses the idea of an AI/data center bubble—calls Blackstone’s approach “extremely conservative...picks and shovels type of business” (long leases to “triple A, double A credits,” mostly top-tier tech firms) [31:18].
• Cautiously notes: “Now the whole field is exploding with growth...you’ll have some problems like you always do...but we will power through this and there’s going to be a profound change in the world” [32:47].

Private Credit:

• Responds to recent negative press; says most distress is from banking, not private credit markets [33:02].
• Defends private credit as conservative, “match-funded” (no sudden withdrawals), offering better yields.
• “Sometimes when I read these inflammatory statements, I go, how is that occurring?...you power through it with your results.” — Schwarzman [34:48].

Macroeconomics & The Fed:

• On CPI, Inflation, and Fed Rates:
  • Schwarzman argues real-world rent/real estate inflation numbers are much lower than CPI data. Believes actual inflation is already near Fed’s 2% goal, predicts further Fed rate cuts [35:52–36:56].
  • “...the numbers that are being used as part of CPI are still much too high in real estate inflation. And if you adjusted it, we’re actually quite close to 2%. And so I think the Fed has, in effect, done its work.” — Schwarzman [35:52].

US-China Relations:

• Warns about global implications of US-China tensions (“These two countries have about 42% of the global economy...essential that they have a functional relationship” [39:14]).
• Explains both sides have agreed to “lower the temperature,” avoid provoking incidents, and schedule multiple leader summits as symbolic steps towards stability [39:14–41:38].

US Economic Outlook:

• Optimistic about broad economic strength, especially in data center-driven sectors; some softness in lower-income segments [41:57].
• Blackstone portfolio companies (“roughly 275 companies and over 250 billion of revenue”) are growing, with revenues up 9% year-over-year [41:57].

---

4. Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Steve Schwarzman on Innovation:
  • “We never stop innovating, we never stop pushing. We always believe that we have smart competitors.” [01:06 & 41:57]
• Schwarzman on AI:
  • “It’s a bit like Thomas Edison inventing the use of electricity in the 1880s…the use of artificial intelligence.” [30:23]
• Schwarzman on Bubble Talk:
  • “This is not bubble type work. This is extremely conservative.” [31:18]
• Jeffries on American Dream:
  • “...the American dream is out of reach as we approach our 250th birthday. That’s a shame.” [21:08]
• On “67” Meme:
  • “Well, apparently it kind of doesn’t really mean much.” — Mike Santoli [11:24]
  • “The meaninglessness is the point. In a way, I think it’s just viral...” — Andrew Ross Sorkin [11:41]

---

Timestamps for Notable Segments

• Trump’s Economic Address (soundbite): [02:43]
• Health Care Subsidies Congressional Debate: [04:11], [12:03] (Jeffries)
• OpenAI Valuation Discussion: [05:27]
• Instacart AI Pricing/FTC: [06:27]
• Trump Media/TAE Fusion Merger: [09:31]
• “67” Meme Explanation: [11:21]
• Jeffries on ACA Debate: [15:05–23:35]
• Schwarzman on Blackstone, AI, and Data Centers: [26:39–32:47]
• Schwarzman on Private Credit: [33:02]
• Schwarzman on Fed, Inflation, CPI: [35:52]
• Schwarzman on China-US Risk/Outlook: [39:14]
• Schwarzman on US Economy: [41:57]

---

Takeaways

• The ACA (Obamacare) subsidy extension is at a flashpoint in Congress, with political brinkmanship and the livelihoods of millions at stake.
• Blackstone’s Steve Schwarzman remains focused on growth via innovation, especially in AI infrastructure, and expects continued macroeconomic strength in the U.S. while remaining cautious about risks.
• Both interviews reflect high-stakes policy and market-making decisions against the backdrop of persistent political division—and the swirling influence of technology, from AI to internet memes.
• The episode captures a wide range: immediate legislative fights, long-term industry shifts, and the unpredictable touch of viral culture permeating even airline marketing.

---

This summary covers all substantive content from the episode, omitting advertisements and filler segments. All quotes and timestamps are directly attributed for context and reference.

Transcript

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Introducing Fidelity Trader plus with customizable tools and charts you can access across all your devices. Try our most powerful trading platform [e-mail] TraderPlus investing involves risk, including risk of loss. Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC Member NYSE SIPC.

[Capella University Announcer]

Is it time to reimagine your future? The right business skills may make a difference in your career. At Capella University, we offer a relevant education that's designed to focus on what you need to know in the business world. We'll teach professional skills to help you pursue your goals, like business management, strategic planning, and effective communication, and you can apply these skills right away. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at capella. Edu.

[Producer/Host Cue]

Bring in show music, please.

[Cameron Costa]

This is Squawkpod and I'm CNBC producer Cameron Costa. On today's episode, 40 Years of Blackstone. The world's largest alternative asset manager is not slowing down and neither is its CEO and co founder Steve Schwarzman.

[Steve Schwarzman]

We never stop innovating. We never stop pushing. We always believe that we have smart competitors.

[Cameron Costa]

His view on the Federal Reserve's rate cut agenda and on China. After four years of chilly relationship, both.

[Steve Schwarzman]

China and the US have looked at that and said we really have to lower the temperature. This is not functional for us as countries or for the world.

[Cameron Costa]

On the Hill, the health care debate is heated. Republicans breaking with the gop a push to vote on extending Obamacare subsidies. House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries gets into it all.

[Producer/Host Cue]

We've got the votes to pass a straightforward extension and send it over to the Senate. Mike Johnson needs to make sure we vote on this legislation today. The House should not recess or adjourn until this issue has been dealt with.

[Cameron Costa]

Plus, our takeaways from President Trump's address. Trump Media is merging with a fusion power company and middle school memes have made their way into business.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Do you Even know what 67 means?

[Mike Santoli]

Well, apparently it kind of doesn't really.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Mean much to me. It doesn't mean anything.

[Mike Santoli]

It's a very obscure origin.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

See, I thought six seven was like, meh.

[Cameron Costa]

It's December 18th, 2025 and Squawkpod begins right now.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Stand Becky by in three, two, one.

[Producer/Host Cue]

Cue it, please.

[Becky Quick]

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Squawkbox right here on CNBC. We are live from the NASDAQ market site in Times Square. I'm Becky Quick along with Andrew Ross Sorkin. Joe is out.

[President Trump (voice or speech excerpt)]

The price of eggs is down 82% since March and everything else is falling rapidly and it's not done yet but, boy, are we making progress. Nobody can believe what's going on here are just some of the efforts that we have underway. You will see in your wallets and bank accounts in the new year.

[Becky Quick]

President Trump seeking to defend his economic record in a primetime speech to the nation. In a roughly 18 minute address from the White House late last night, the president blamed Democrats for economic challenges and stressed that his policies are working. As the US approaches its 250th anniversary, the president announced bonus checks for members of the military totaling $1,776 each. The President also previewed his upcoming decision on who he wants to lead the Federal Reserve.

[President Trump (voice or speech excerpt)]

I'll soon announce our next chairman of the Federal Reserve, someone who believes in lower interest rates by a lot and mortgage payments will be coming down even further.

[Becky Quick]

Affordability, obviously a big issue with the president beginning his speech by saying 11 months ago, I inherited a mess and I'm fixing it. Obviously a lot going on, not just there, but also with what we've been seeing with health care costs. That's expected to be a big issue in the election. And yesterday, four Republicans voted with the Democrats to bring up a bill to bring up a vote to the floor on health care costs, which is where.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We'Re going next because for centrist House Republicans joining with Democrats to force that vote on extending enhanced government health subsidies for three years. Three GOP lawmakers from Pennsylvania and Congressman Mike Lawlor from New York signing into a petition onto that petition from House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries bringing the number of yes votes to 218. That means the House will have to vote on extending the Affordable Care act subsidies as soon as next month. They still expire at the end of this year, absent some kind of deal before then. Also yesterday, House Republicans passing a health care package without subsidies. And we get the list on all of this when House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries joins us live.

[Becky Quick]

OpenAI has held early talks with investors about raising money at a $750 billion valuation. That's according to a report and the information it said the maker of Chat GPT could raise as much as $100 billion in this next funding round. A $750 billion valuation would represent a 50% jump from Open Air's reported $500 billion valuation back in October. That followed a deal in which current and former employees sold more than $6 billion worth of stock. What do you think of that valuation?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I mean, look, if you keep going up, I think it'll be a trillion dollars by the time they actually go public by the time you get to public, which by the way gets to the other question, which is do you want these companies to be public earlier.

[Becky Quick]

To be private for so long, to.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Be private for so long, or do you want them to be public earlier? And what we don't know is if you do believe we're in some kind of bubble, then maybe you don't want them to be public earlier.

[Becky Quick]

Shares of Instacart falling this morning. They're off by about 6.6%. That's coming after a Reuters report says that the FTC is investigating the company's pricing practices. Last week a study showed that prices for the same products in the same supermarkets could vary around 7% because of an AI pricing tool that it is allowing retailers to use. The company declined to comment on the investigation, but said that reporting has mischaracterized its pricing system. But again, shares off by about 6.6% this morning.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What do you think of this one? I mean, it looks like it was done as a test or at least that they're saying it was done as.

[Becky Quick]

I haven't, I can't say anything other than the reporting that I've read on this. But it also sounds kind of similar to what airlines do where, you know, you, you search for a ticket maybe once or twice and then they know that they want it and that you really want it and prices shoot up pretty.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Oh, my understanding, I hope, I hope this is right. Maybe I'm wrong. My understanding on the airlines was always a yield oriented situation. So that if there were obviously the more seats that are sold and the less seats that are left, it's a supply demand situation that I understand.

[Becky Quick]

But I think this was something where there have been more recent reporting that suggests that if you search it even once or twice, it knows the airline does. Yeah, that the airline knows that you are in the market.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

That one's.

[Becky Quick]

As a result, they may raise the price. So if you're ready to book, you better book immediately rather than come back and search again.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

That I did not know.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah, but it's, you know, look for grocery prices too. I can see where the FTC would get a little concerned about this if you feel like you're not getting the best deal. I can understand the retailer's perspective of I want to squeeze as much as I can out of somebody who's willing to pay more. But we'll see, we'll see how, how this goes from there. And it's again, the ability to use AI and then what you do with it are big questions around some of those things.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

By the way, I'm fine with this sort of supply, demand. There's less, there's less taxes.

[Becky Quick]

Right, right, right.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I'm Uber on New Year's Eve.

[Becky Quick]

You're going to pay a lot more money for it.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And maybe I'd be okay with it if there was, you know, one last jug of milk. I don't think it's that, but I don't think that's what we're talking about here. Right. That's what I was going to say. And I don't think it's a supply and demand issue, but I'm saying maybe if it was under that umbrella, I don't know. Yeah. Meantime, the economic.

[Becky Quick]

That's price gouging, right?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, that is, that's, that's price gouging on the other end.

[Producer/Host Cue]

Right.

[Becky Quick]

The last case of water. But then you're in a hurricane situation.

[Steve Schwarzman]

Sure.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But then you'd also say that airlines are price gouging and that Uber is price gouging.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Becky's going to be with us again in just a moment. She's making her way over to Blackstone's headquarters right here in New York for a big interview with that company's CEO and co founder, Steve Schwarzman, the legend that is. She'll be joining us a little bit later in the hour with that conversation with Steve. Mike Santoli is joining us as well. Meantime, we got some deal news and this one's interesting. I think we're all still scratching our heads a little bit, trying to make sense of it. The Trump Media Technology Group announcing plans to merge with TAE Technologies. It's a fusion powered company. It is backed by Alphabet's, Google and Chevron. And it's an all stock merger valued at more than $6 billion. And upon closing, Trump Media will be a holding company for its current portfolio of media brands, including Truth Social and then as well as the power brands owned by tae. So you're looking at sort of a conglomerate of sorts. I think there's an argument to be made that to the extent you think that Truth Social or Trump Media stock was overvalued, here's an opportunity for them to use that stock to buy.

[Mike Santoli]

Sure.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Another company, that private company, sort of a Trojan horse to take that company public in, in some ways, I don't.

[Mike Santoli]

Know, I mean, I would think of it as, first of all, Trump Media is also kind of, you know, sort of pivoted toward crypto and said they're going to do payments and Asset management, other things. It seems to me this is exactly the type of alternative energy play that has excited parts of this market. Right. It's nuclear reactors in space, all this other stuff that, you know, you get this kind of pie in the sky type of potential energy source. Not a lot of fundamentals, if any, right now. And it makes for a perfect way to harness some of that investor energy and kind of change the character of the stock and the story behind it.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Right. It's a shift.

[Mike Santoli]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We're going to probably have to do some digging to understand more of some of the personalities behind it. Why they would do this.

[Mike Santoli]

Why this particular.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, the other flip side is if this company is. Has so much promise, backed by Google, backed by Chevron, why go public this way? Meaning why not go public on your own?

[Mike Santoli]

Well, 6 billion in shares that are now up 28%.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

That's the question. Is that, Is that the answer? And by the way, do they stay there? Yeah, it's, it's, it's an interesting approach.

[Mike Santoli]

Many questions for sure.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You bet. Okay. Meantime, Southwest Airlines jumping in on the 67 trend. And when I say 6 7, for those who have kids, 6, 7. You know about the 6 7, the airline offering $67 basic economy fares on select Tuesday and Wednesday flights between January 6 and March 4, calling it the trendiest sale ever. The deal running through December 18th applies only to flights within the continental US so 6, 7. I have children who say this to me all the time.

[Mike Santoli]

Yeah, six.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

They do this. They do. Do you know about this?

[Mike Santoli]

I know about it, but I'm a little beyond it.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You Even know what 67 means?

[Mike Santoli]

Well, apparently it kind of doesn't really mean much.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Doesn't mean anything.

[Mike Santoli]

Very obscure origin.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

See, I thought 67 was like, meh.

[Mike Santoli]

Right.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Sort of. Because between 6 and 7 would be like a 65.

[Mike Santoli]

Right.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And that would be mediocre. Mediocre. Meh, 6, 7. But apparently, I'm told that is not the case.

[Mike Santoli]

Right, Right. The meaninglessness is the point. In a way, I think it's just viral, but I mean, once the companies start to seize on it, you have to imagine it's running its course among the kids.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Is late.

[Producer/Host Cue]

Tease will be next.

[Cameron Costa]

Next on squawk pod. Inside the heated health care debate on Capitol Hill with House Minority Leader Hakeem.

[Producer/Host Cue]

Jeffries, Tens of millions of Americans are going to experience skyrocketing health insurance premiums, in some cases increasing by 1,000 or $2,000 per month. And 90% of the people who rely on the Affordable Care act tax credits make around $63,000 per year.

[Cameron Costa]

We'll be right back.

[Skye Perryman]

Courage is the new currency in this country. I'm Skye Perryman, president and CEO of Democracy Forward, where our team of lawyers is fighting in court every day for you, for your rights, and for our democracy. The Trump Vance administration wants us to be exhausted and divided. But when people come together and speak out, courage becomes contagious. And that is how change happens. We we've already won cases to defend people and communities, all free of charge. But ahead of 2026, we need you beside us. Join the movement.

[Capella University Announcer]

Democracyforward.org @capella university, learning the right skills could make a difference. That's why our business programs teach you relevant skills you can take from the courseroom to the workplace. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at capella.

[Skye Perryman]

Edu and now a next level moment from AT&T business. Say you've sent out a gigantic shipment of pillows and they need to be there in time for international sleep. You've got AT and T5G so you're fully confident, but the vendor isn't responding and International Sleep Day is tomorrow. Luckily, AT&T 5G lets you deal with any issues with ease, so the pillows will get delivered and everyone can sleep soundly, especially you. AT&T 5G requires a compatible plan and device coverage not available everywhere. Learn [e-mail] 5G Network.

[Cameron Costa]

Welcome back to Squawkpod. While Becky traveled to Blackstone from our set this morning, this morning Andrew Ross Sorkin and Mike Santoli held down the fort in Times Square the morning after President Trump addressed the nation.

[President Trump (voice or speech excerpt)]

I'm also taking on the gigantic health insurance companies that have gotten rich on billions of dollars of money that should go directly to the people. The money should go to the people. That's you. So they can buy their own health insurance, which will give far better benefits at much lower cost.

[Cameron Costa]

In Congress, the health care debate is heated. You know by now that Obamacare subsid expire on December 31st. And four House Republicans broke with their own party this week to force a vote on extending enhanced government health care subsidies for three years. But because of the holiday recess and because of House rules, the earliest they can vote is the first week of January. That is, unless House Speaker Mike Johnson bumps it sooner. Those four centrist Republicans who supported extending the health care subsidies, they did so by signing a petition, the Minority Leaders Petition.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Joining us right now is House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. Good morning to you. You Heard the president last night. He says the Democrats are in the pockets of the insurance companies and that the price of your health care is actually to go down under his plan. What say you?

[Producer/Host Cue]

Well, good morning. Great to be with you. The Republican health care crisis is devastating the American people. And Donald Trump has zero credibility on the issue of health care. This is the party that has enacted the largest cut to Medicaid in American history in the same bill where they enacted massive tax breaks for their billionaire donors because of Republican policies. In the one big ugly bill, we know that hospitals, nursing homes and community based health centers are closing all across the country, including in rural America. Republicans have launched an all out assault on the Centers for Disease Control, the National Institute of Health, the Food and Drug Administration on vaccine availability for children. And now Republicans are refusing to extend the Affordable Care act tax credits, which means that tens of millions of Americans, working class Americans, are about to experience dramatically increased health insurance premiums. We are working hard to decisively confront this Republican health care crisis and fix our broken health care system.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Leader, let me ask you this, and I recognize the complications and costs to the American public. There is a question, and maybe you'd say it's a longer term question that has to be dealt with later. But the true question ultimately underneath all this is how we're going to actually lower the costs of health care in America. And when I say lower the cost, not just lower the cost for individuals, meaning in the moment, subsidize it, but how we actually change the market dynamic at play. And whether what you have proposed even tries to address that at all or frankly exacerbates it.

[Producer/Host Cue]

What we've proposed at the moment relates to the fact that the Affordable Care act tax credits are going to expire on December 31st. And no one disputes that. If that happens, tens of millions of Americans are going to experience skyrocketing health insurance premiums, in some cases increasing by $1,000 or $2,000 per month. And 90% of the people who rely on the Affordable Care act tax credits make around $63,000 per year. These are working class Americans, everyday Americans and middle class Americans. And so we've got to make sure that we don't allow these tax credits to expire at the same time. You raise a very good point, Andrew, that the health care system is broken and we need to fix it. We want to fix it in a comprehensive way, in a bipartisan way. But that actually requires Republicans deciding to abandon their my way or the highway approach to everything, which is what has led to the extremism that they're jamming down the throats of the American people and the fact that everyday Americans voters are rejecting that extremism, as we saw in the off year elections last November.

[Mike Santoli]

Leader Jeffries, you mentioned that the vast majority of those who use the supplemental subsidies for the ACA are, you know, well below, you know, kind of these, the wealthy thresholds that, that the Republicans are talking about, which is four times the poverty line. Is that in play in terms of a negotiated agreement here? They keep talking about that as maybe a sticking point. How, how does your party feel about simply having an income cap for these subsidies?

[Producer/Host Cue]

We have a bipartisan coalition right now that supports in the House of Representatives, that's every single house of Democrat and at least four House Republicans supports a straightforward extension of the Affordable Care act tax credits. Time has run out. Republicans have had all year to deal with this issue and have chosen not to do it because they were focused on passing their one big ugly bill, which they enacted with great urgency months ago. The largest cut to Medicaid in American history, the largest cut to nutritional assistance in American history. They literally ripped $186 billion away from SNAP. That's food from hungry children, hungry veterans and hungry seniors. And why did they do all of that? So they can enact massive tax breaks that they made permanent for their billionaire donors and skyrocketed the debt by over $3 trillion. And now at the 11th hour, time has run out and we've got the votes to pass a straightforward extension and send it over to the Senate. Mike Johnson needs to make sure we vote on this legislation today. The House should not recess or adjourn until this issue has been dealt with.

[Mike Santoli]

What is your expectation? You say you have the votes, you'd mentioned, the four Republicans that have come on over to join you. And then the Senate seems like it's kind of a no go no matter what. So I mean, what are we looking at come next week?

[Producer/Host Cue]

Week? Well, what's interesting about the Senate is that there are a majority of US Senators, Democrats and Republicans who've already supported in the vote that took place a few weeks ago, a straightforward extension of the Affordable Care act tax credits. And so once we send the bill from the House over to the Senate, then the Senate can negotiate a path forward that enables them hopefully to break the filibuster and get something done for the American people. We can work on this issue in a bipartisan way. As has now been demonstrated in the House of Representatives. We do need some presidential leadership. Part of the issue is that Donald Trump still seems to believe that the affordability crisis is a hoax. In fact, he said that repeatedly, costs haven't gone down in this country. Costs have gone up despite the fact that Donald Trump did promise his words, not mine, that cost would go down on day one. Housing costs out of control. Grocery costs out of control. Electricity bills out of control. Healthcare costs out of control. Action needs to be taken in all of these areas. We're prepared to work with our colleagues on the other side of the aisle. We just need good faith and Republican.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Leadership talk about costs getting out of control. You mentioned health care. Interestingly, you look at employment in America over the past year and actually it is the health care industry where so much of the employment has come from. What do you make of that?

[Producer/Host Cue]

Well, listen, I think we've got to take a look at the economy as a whole and all of the individual sectors in this country. Fundamentally, here's our belief. You work hard, you play by the rules, you should be able to live an affordable life, a comfortable life, live the good life. And to me, that's good paying job, good housing, good healthcare, good education and a good retirement, which means the extremists need to keep their hands off Social Security and Medicare. That should not be too much to ask for in this great country of ours, the wealthiest country in the history of the world. So, you know, listen, we support the notion that economic growth that moves in a positive direction is good for everyone. But we've got to make sure that this fundamental principle, hard work, paying off, playing by the rules, paying off, and the American dream being brought to life is actually realized and revived because far too many people understandably have concluded, I'm talking about working class folks, middle class folks, that the American dream is out of reach as we approach our 250th birthday. That's a shame.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

A lot of folks waiting to find out what the Supreme Court has to say about the tariffs that have been implemented by the President. I believe you have come out strongly against those tariffs. There's a real question though, about whether, if they were struck down, whether the court could force effectively the US government to give back the $200 billion that has been collected in tariffs and how that could re scramble the economy. And I'm curious what the sort of democratic position would be on something like that.

[Producer/Host Cue]

Well, the implications of the Supreme Court striking down those tariffs, I think have to be evaluated. Our view, as you indicated, Andrew, from the very beginning, is that the president has violated his authority. He doesn't have the emergency authority to implement this random, massive tariff scheme that's imposing thousands of dollars of additional cost on everyday Americans, which is why the American people reject these tariffs. I think that if the Supreme Court strikes down these tariffs, then Congress should come together in a bipartisan way and figure out the path forward. Anchored in the reality is what's best for the American people, what's best for our companies and our corporations, what's best for the economy to ensure that we can continue to see American exceptionalism prevail.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Leader Jeffries, want to thank you for joining us this morning. Want to wish you Happy holidays if we don't see you before the break next week. Thank you.

[Producer/Host Cue]

Happy Holidays. Thank you.

[Cameron Costa]

Coming up on Squawk Pod, we're at the offices of the world's largest alternative asset manager, Blackstone, with CEO and co founder Steve Schwarzman, Fed China and of course, AI.

[Steve Schwarzman]

This is not bubble type work. This is extremely conservative. Now. The whole field is exploding with growth. So there are new people entering, there's some people whose credits aren't as robust. And so you'll have some problems like you always do at this type of thing.

[Capella University Announcer]

Is it time to reimagine your future? The right business skills may make a difference in your career. At Capella University, we offer a relevant education that's designed to focus on what you need to know in the business world. We'll teach professional skills to help you pursue your goals like business management, strategic planning and effective communication. And you can apply these skills right away. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at capella. Edu.

[Skye Perryman]

And now a next level moment from AT&T business. Say you've sent out a gigantic shipment of pillows and they need to be there in time for International Sleep day. You've got AT and T5G so you're fully confident, but the vendor isn't responding. And International Sleep Day is tomorrow. Luckily, AT&T 5G lets you deal with any issues with ease. So the pillows will get delivered and everyone can sleep soundly, especially you. AT&T 5G requires a compatible plan and device coverage not available everywhere. Learn [e-mail] 5G Network.

[Strawberry Me Coaching Announcer]

Let'S be completely honest. Are you happy with your job? The fact is, a huge number of people can't say yes to that. Too many of us are stuck in a job we've outgrown or one we never wanted. But we stick it out and we give reasons like what if the next move is worse? I put years into this place and maybe the most common one. Isn't everyone miserable at work? But there's a difference between reasons for staying and excuses for not leaving. It's time to get unstuck. It's time for Strawberry Me. They match you with a certified career coach who helps you go from where you are to where you want to be. Your coach helps you clarify your goals, creates a plan, and keeps you accountable along the way. Go to Strawberry Me Coaching and get 50% off your first coaching session. That's Strawberry Me Coaching.

[Cameron Costa]

You're listening to Squawk Cloud. Here's Becky Quick.

[Becky Quick]

Welcome back to Squawk Box, everybody. I am here at Blackstone's headquarters on Park Avenue in Manhattan this morning. Of course, this is the world's largest alternative asset manager, and it's just turned 40 years old in 2025. Joining us right now with a look back and a look ahead is the firm CEO, Chairman and co founder Steve Schwarzman. And, Steve, thank you for taking the time to sit down with us.

[Steve Schwarzman]

Well, it's fun for me.

[Becky Quick]

It is fun for us, too. We don't get the chance to do this very often. 40 years since you built this firm, coming out with $400,000 in capital, where you sat down and kind of branched out into this new and fledgling private equity world that you helped build. What do you think 40 years later, with a market cap of, what is it, just about $187 billion today?

[Steve Schwarzman]

Well, it's been 240 at the top. Yeah. So that's been quite a journey. And it's been fascinating. Like all entrepreneurial types of enterprises, you don't know quite where you're going. But when we started, we knew we'd be doing, you know, private equity. We called it LPOs. And we also knew, besides our advisory business, that we'd be starting new businesses. That was part of our strategic plan. And we were going to go into new money management areas that we thought would be great for customers, that we also thought we can build into very big businesses. And we've been following the same strategy ever since. It's different than almost everyone else who just said, I'll do LBOs, I'll do private equity. Because I always worried that if you stay in one business, if anything goes wrong with it, that's not so good. So I like the idea of doing new things. I actually find it fascinating. And it ends up being a great business strategy because the people who work here don't have glass ceilings. We're always doing something new. They can move to those businesses so it's. It's great for people retention and satisfaction. It's great for customers. And now we have such a broad platform that when we talk to an institutional investor, for example, it's really like we can bring you a solution for almost anything you want. We have 85 strategies now. We started with one. Now it sounds like a lot. And we have almost edging up on $1.3 trillion from. From 400,000 assets that you are holding. But it happens quite gradually. Those are like two new products a year in 40 years. So it sounds like we're doing a lot, but we're extremely careful that we only do stuff that's great for customers, great for performance. And if we can do that, they become very happy and they give us more money.

[Becky Quick]

One of your newer businesses that you announced last year you would like to be the biggest in is being an owner of data centers. That's been a huge move, and obviously it's been driving major markets higher, driving the averages higher. But there are some concerns about AI in general and data centers in particular as well. Yesterday it was news about an Oracle data center in Michigan and Blue Owl Financing no longer being involved with that. Your name was one of the ones mentioned as a potential financer for. For that particular project. What can you tell us about A, that project, but B, maybe overall where you see data centers and where that's headed?

[Steve Schwarzman]

Well, AI is, as you know, Becky, because you covered in 2018, 2019, a gift I made to MIT to start their College of Computing for Artificial Intelligence. Intelligence.

[Becky Quick]

A big deal, but you were far ahead of your peers and where everybody else was.

[Steve Schwarzman]

That was way before, you know, chat. Cbt.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah.

[Steve Schwarzman]

And so we saw that there would be a new world being created by artificial intelligence. And, you know, it's a bit like Thomas Edison inventing the use of electricity in the 1880s with the electric light bulb. And that's sort of what's happening now. And you need the data centers to create the use of artificial intelligence. And so we could see there'd be an explosion in this area, and we bought a company called QTS. $10 billion purchase for $10 billion in 2021, and it's now 14 times the size in four years.

[Becky Quick]

So what do you tell people, though, who say we're at a bubble in AI, were at a bubble in data centers? Do you think that's the case?

[Steve Schwarzman]

Well, I think what's happening is that we've got rapid expansion. It's being done principally by five or six companies, almost all of them not all are great credits. And so what we do is quite simple in a way. We're the largest in the world building data centers and we're the largest owner of data centers. But it's very conservative picks and shovels type of business. And what we do is we build these enormous facilities and basically Jensen Huang fills them up with semis, although other people are doing it now and they sign a lease with us to lease that building for 15 or 20 years. So we have triple A, double A credits. This is not bubble type work. This is extremely conservative. Now the whole field is exploding with growth. So there are new people entering, there are some people whose credits aren't as robust. And so you'll have some problems like you always do at this type of thing, but, but we will power through this and there's going to be a profound change in the world looked at five to ten years from now.

[Becky Quick]

Steve, let's talk a little bit about private credit too, because that's another area where Blackstone has excelled. There have been some issues that have popped up. Bankruptcies that showed up that people said, oh, this is a private problem of the private credit markets. I think you've had a different view on that.

[Steve Schwarzman]

Well, those bankruptcies that showed up, there were three of them happened to be done by the banking system, not by private credit. Private credit has been around for quite some time. We've been doing this for over 20 years and the results have been terrific for the investors, for the companies and for the overall system. It's much more conservative, very lowly leveraged extension of credit compared to the banking system that's, that's leveraged 10 to 10 to 1 or less than 1 to 1. And instead of taking deposits which people learned in Silicon Valley bank when they want their money back, that could be a problem. We're match funded so people can't get their money back if it is appropriate in terms of timing. So we have a very safe business. And it yields about 200 basis points more than leverage loans. And so it's growing rapidly. And for customers who borrow from us, they just deal with us. They don't have to syndicate their products. It's much faster. And instead of having a range of cost, we tell them exactly what they'll get. And as a result of that we're the largest in the world doing this and we've had great results. And the stuff that's in the press recently is really quite excessive and doesn't reflect what's going on in terms of.

[Becky Quick]

Questions about private credit. What's that stuff in the press in terms of questions about private credit?

[Steve Schwarzman]

Yes. Now we look at it and say our results are going along quite consistently, and so we anticipate good outcomes for customers. It's a very safe business. And sometimes when I read these inflammatory statements, I go, how is that occurring? So I think we, every once in a while we hit a public relations issue. You power through it with your results, and then we go back to business.

[Becky Quick]

Just the way it was when we were sitting down just a moment ago, someone walked over to you, showed you their iPhone, and you went, whoa. I asked what that was, what you were reacting to. It was the CPI data. It was much lower than most people had anticipated. Anticipated. Not. Not lower than you were thinking. But you're finally seeing the print of what you've been talking about for a time, that inflation is less than the numbers are kind of showing.

[Steve Schwarzman]

Yes, well, we've been quite public. When you go public and say things are going a different way than the rest of the world, I guess you're at some intellectual risk of some type. But we understood that the real estate component, which is about a third of cpi, was being measured in a way that was inconsistent with what we were seeing happening on the ground. And even still, the numbers that are being used as part of CPI are still much too high in real estate inflation. And if you adjusted it, we're actually quite close to 2%. And so I think the Fed has, in effect, done its work, and I look forward to other cuts now because, you know, they have 2% as their target, and they're really very, very close to that. So it's not really 2.7. The way we look at the numbers and we've been right.

[Becky Quick]

What do you see in the actual. The real estate portion of cpi? What. What do you see, at least in your numbers?

[Steve Schwarzman]

You know, if you look at, in effect, what is happening in apartment rents and so forth, I think they're saying it's the whole category is like 2, 7, and we're seeing it like 1, 2, you know, for the whole real estate area, and that's a third. So, you know, that gets you much more closer to the 2% number. And the way the Fed measures, they actually get to that number, but it takes them nine months to a year. And we live in the real world where you have to get there right away. So I think there's reason for optimism here. And that division that the Fed had at least was reported, I would anticipate there won't be much division in the future.

[Becky Quick]

Steve, you are someone who has been close to the president, President Trump in his first. In his first term and also in the second term. It's been reported that you're helping negotiate a settlement with Harvard University. We've even heard that you have told him a little bit about what you think about the potential for a next Fed chair. Do you tell him what you think in terms of inflation, Inflation and where things stand and whether the Fed should be cutting rates at this point?

[Steve Schwarzman]

Well, I always tell people who ask me, except major television figures, where I can't just say certain things. When people ask me, I tell them what I think. I found that to be a simple way of dealing with people, and they expect you to do that. So I give feedback when. What a mask.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah.

[Becky Quick]

And has he asked you about these things? I would imagine he has.

[Steve Schwarzman]

I can't tell you stuff like that, Becky.

[Becky Quick]

I understand. I understand. Let's talk a little bit about China, because you are somebody who has been a China booster for a long time in making sure we have a relationship with China. But I think you've also had some concerns about where things have headed just in terms of our relationship with them and what we get back from from China, too. Where does that stand right now, that relationship between the two superpowers?

[Steve Schwarzman]

Well, China and the US just to set a stage very quickly, have about 42% of the global economy. People don't typically understand how dominant these two countries are. And so it's essential that they have a functional relationship, given the impact on the world of not doing so. And so we had a bad period during the previous four years where China ended up as a result of that, becoming an ally of Russia, which really changes the geopolitical balance of the 21st century. And I think the good news is that China, after a lot of breaking apart, you know, and threats, if you will, over rare earths and what that will do to the Western economies, I think that both China and the US have looked at that and said, we really have to lower the temperature. This is not functional for us as countries or for the world. And so they reached an agreement to basically take a number of the issues that were concerning them and pushing them out for at least a year, if not more, because it's easy to push things out. You can just have a meeting and say, what do you think? Let's push them out. They pushed him out. And, you know, that was a good job done by the president and by Scott Bessen, and I helped him out a little bit, too. So They've agreed on at least two meetings, maybe as many as four between the two presidents. Now that's a big symbol in China. The idea of having meetings between heads of state means you don't do anything to inflame things in that run up. And in the original discussions, a few, I guess it was about a month ago, they talked about as many as four meetings. Well, that won't give you any opportunities to really have difficulties. And there's much more of an open dialogue now. And so I think for global stability that's a very good thing.

[Becky Quick]

We are almost out of time. I wish I had much longer to talk with you because I've got a million things I'd love to talk to you about. But while you're here, before we run out of time, can you tell us where you see your take on the US economy? You've got over 200 businesses that you own and manage at Blackstone. What's your read on things? Where are we?

[Steve Schwarzman]

The US Economy is doing pretty well. The data center air expansion is really unique to America, unique to China and it's pulling our economy along. I see pretty good times ahead. You know, it's a little soft, you know, with, with some of the sort of lower income people which has to be dealt with. But you know, 80% of companies last quarter exceeded S and P estimates. Our businesses are growing at 9% revenues. That sounds like a pretty good number because we have roughly 275 companies and over 250 billion of revenue and the people running those businesses are, are quite optimistic. But I would say in closing that we appreciate your relationship with us over the years. You said you've been CNBC for 20 years. That's half of our 40. So it's fun to deal with you and it's also a proud moment at Blackstone. All of our businesses are pretty amazing and we've been a pioneer in every area and we've sort of shown the way for a different type of company in finance and I'm really quite please but that was yesterday. There's the future and we never stop innovating, we never stop pushing. We always believe that we have smart competitors and our job is to stay ahead.

[Becky Quick]

And that is why you've made it this far in 40 years. Steve, we thank you very much. It's an honor to be here with you today.

[Cameron Costa]

That that's the podcast for today. Thank you for tuning in. Squawk Box is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Weekday mornings on CNBC. Starting at 6 Eastern to get the smartest bits of that TV show right into your ears. Follow Squawkpod Wherever you get your podcasts, we'll meet you right back here tomorrow. Have a great day.

[Producer/Host Cue]

We are clear.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Thanks guys.

[Steve Schwarzman]

Congress may have clawed back funding for public media, but public radio's mission to serve you and your community will not waver as the NPR network enters a new chapter. Your support is critical. Visit donate.NPR.org.