Elon Musk’s Trillion Dollar Pay Plan & Obesity Drug Pricing 11/7/25

Summary

Squawk Pod — Elon Musk’s Trillion Dollar Pay Plan & Obesity Drug Pricing

Date: November 7, 2025
Host(s): Joe Kernen & Andrew Ross Sorkin
Notable Guests: Dr. Mehmet Oz (Administrator, Centers for Medicare and Medicaid); Walter Isaacson (Author and Musk Biographer)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Squawk Pod delves into two headline topics shaping economic and societal discussions:

1. Tesla’s historic approval of Elon Musk’s $1 Trillion pay package, exploring both the economic logic and philosophical implications, capped with insights from Musk biographer Walter Isaacson.
2. The Trump administration’s negotiated plan to slash prices on popular obesity drugs, described in detail by Dr. Mehmet Oz, including the policy rationale, expected outcomes, and the ongoing challenge of U.S. healthcare system reform.

Throughout, the hosts debate the broader themes of wealth inequality, American innovation, the role of government in healthcare and industry, and the tension between economic opportunity and social fairness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tesla Shareholders Approve Elon Musk’s $1 Trillion Pay Plan

(Main segment starts ~05:15)

• Background: Tesla shareholders approve a new pay package for CEO Elon Musk that could reach a staggering $1 Trillion if exacting corporate milestones are met over the coming decade. The deal, supported by 75% of shareholders, consists of 12 tranches tied to company performance, including a market cap target north of $8 Trillion and non-vehicle products like the Optimus robot.

• Panel Banter & Market Context:

  • Sorkin and Kernan marvel at the unprecedented figures and discuss U.S. market trends, the psychology of compensation, and political critique of wealth concentration.
  • Quote, Joe Kernan (06:51):
    "Of course they got to get the market cap to over $8 trillion for him to get... It's early in the morning and bees and treaties. Can't believe we even talk in Tees and Tees like this."

• Societal Reactions – Wealth, Fairness & Policy:

  • Kernan defends Musk's contributions and entrepreneurial value, contrasting it with “populism” and policies critical of billionaires.
    Quote (07:16):
    "The idea that billionaires are not a positive force... this is not a zero sum game. He didn't steal the trillion dollars from other people... This is creating wealth."
  • Sorkin highlights public concern over fairness and tax policy:
    Quote (09:17):
    "You've got to...make it seem—and not just seem, feel—fairer. So we often talk about the tax code. It seems to me that there's so much low-hanging fruit."
  • The hosts debate how the U.S. could structure taxes or policy to maintain upward mobility while easing social tensions.

2. U.S. Policy on Obesity Drug Pricing – With Dr. Mehmet Oz

(Segment starts ~20:40, interview ~21:48)

• Deal Highlights:

  • The Trump White House secures agreements with Eli Lilly and Novo Nordisk to cut prices on obesity drugs.
  • Out-of-pocket costs for consumers drop from $1,200–$1,300/month to ~$250/month. For Medicare patients: $50 copay; on Medicaid, the medications are free.
  • Medicare will begin covering these drugs for obesity in 2026.
  • Notable Quote, Dr. Oz (01:59 / 22:07):
    "Most Americans can't afford these drugs... we are reducing the cost on average to about $250 a month. And if you're on Medicare... you're going to pay $50 copay. Government will pick up the rest."

• Broader Policy Implications:

  • Dr. Oz frames this deal as a new template to align U.S. drug prices with those in other developed countries, pushing back on the pharma industry’s argument that price controls would kill innovation:
    Quote (26:13):
    "That specific narrative is false... The argument that we're making and they're agreeing with is that it's inherently unfair for us to pay three times more."
  • He adds this benefits public health and state budgets, given obesity’s large share of U.S. healthcare costs.

• Healthcare System Challenges:

  • Dr. Oz discusses the complexity and politics of the U.S. healthcare system, noting the need to “bend the cost curve” by cutting waste, deploying better technology and data, and incentivizing quality care.
  • He estimates over 10% of Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services' $1.75 trillion budget is lost to fraud, waste, and abuse, and promises actions to improve efficiency.
  • Quote (32:26):
    "It is absolutely possible to reduce costs. I'll give you two concrete examples: over 10%...is fraud, waste and abuse... And the second big issue... is by truly empowering beneficiaries with information."

• GLP-1 Drug Innovation & Impact:

  • Dr. Oz foreshadows next-gen obesity medications (pills coming by March), predicts 135 million pounds lost across the population, and discusses emerging metabolic and behavioral benefits.
  • Quote (34:38):
    "We're going to have pills, pill versions of these on the market by March... We estimate that the American people will lose about 135 million pounds over the next year..."

• Viral Moment:

  • Dr. Oz recounts rendering medical aid during the White House announcement when an attendee fainted, and President Trump personally called the attendee’s spouse.
  • Quote (35:40):
    "The most important thing if someone's about to faint is catch them... We got him down, put a little chocolate in his mouth, got an IV in, and he got excellent medical care..."

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3. Warren Buffett’s AI Warning

(Segment ~16:12)

• Joe Kernan highlights Buffett's concern over deepfake videos impersonating him, manipulating public perception and potentially markets.
• Quote (16:12):
  "Mr. Buffett is concerned that these types of fraudulent videos are becoming a spreading virus..."

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4. Walter Isaacson on Musk’s Moonshot Milestone

(Interview segment ~39:00)

• Historical Parallels & Populist Backlash:

  • Isaacson likens the current era to 1929 in both speculative energy and the rise of populism fueled by inequality.
  • Quote (39:52 / 40:11):
    "Right now you have greater, greater excesses of wealth and inequalities of wealth...and it leads to a populist backlash."

• Musk’s Chances and Corporate Control:

  • Recalls 2018’s skepticism and Musk’s previous performance, noting that despite “moonshot” goals (1 million robots, 1 million driverless cars, sixfold share price rise), past precedent should give observers pause before doubting Musk again.
  • Notable Quote (40:30 / 40:49):
    "I remember you in 2018... Everybody you talked to said it was ridiculous. Well, he did it."
  • Argues Musk’s demand for equity is not just about wealth, but control—especially over Tesla’s AI and robotics integration:
    Quote (41:47):
    "Musk feels he needs the stock not only for the money... he wants control of a company that's going to be taking AI and put it into the real world."

• Tesla and X AI Integration Debate:

  • Isaacson predicts continued internal tension over whether Musk’s independent AI efforts (X AI) should fold into Tesla, seeing it as a likely eventuality.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Joe Kernan on Wealth Creation:
  "This is not a zero sum game. He didn't steal the trillion dollars from other people." (07:16)
• Andrew Ross Sorkin on Fairness & Policy:
  "You've got to...make it seem—and not just seem, feel—fairer." (09:17)
• Dr. Mehmet Oz on Drug Pricing:
  "We're making it easier for companies to say yes. They're bringing their prices in line with what other countries are paying." (18:34)
• Walter Isaacson on Musk’s Track Record:
  "I remember you in 2018...Every source said it was ridiculous. Well, he did it." (40:30)
• Walter Isaacson on Control:
  "He wants control of a company that's going to be taking AI and put it into the real world..." (41:47)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:12 — Main episode theme tease: Musk’s pay plan, obesity drug pricing
• 05:15 — Deep dive: Tesla’s shareholder approval, Musk’s pay structure
• 07:16 — Kernan on wealth creation; society’s view on billionaires
• 09:17 — Sorkin on tax policy, economic fairness
• 20:40 — Obesity drug policy overview begins; Dr. Oz intro
• 21:48 — Dr. Oz interview on drug pricing, public health policy
• 26:13 — Dr. Oz refutes pharma’s narrative on innovation and price controls
• 32:26 — Dr. Oz on fixing healthcare costs (fraud, digital tools)
• 34:38 — Dr. Oz on upcoming pill versions, impact on weight loss
• 39:00 — Interview: Walter Isaacson on the Musk pay package, historical context
• 40:49 — Isaacson on past predictions, Musk’s ability to deliver

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Conclusion

This episode offers an unvarnished look at the scale and stakes of modern American business and governance. The electric debate ranges from Musk’s astronomical incentives (“moonshot goals”) and their role in driving—versus destabilizing—growth, to America's latest innovation in pharmaceutical pricing. Both conversations circle back to the same crossroads: how can a nation balance prosperity and innovation with fairness and access, amid rising technological and social complexity?

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For deeper insights:

• Dr. Oz on reforming U.S. drug pricing (21:48–28:23)
• Walter Isaacson on Musk’s ambitions and the future of Tesla/AI (39:00–44:05)

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Episode tone: Energetic, combative, occasionally humorous, but ultimately grounded in serious questions about the direction of the American economy and society.

Transcript

[Katie Kramer]

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[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Think of your commute, your train, your car, maybe your walk. Even if you don't realize it, crypto.

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

And blockchain innovations are all around you.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

On your way into the office. So why not learn about them on the way? From institutional custody solutions to 247 cross border payments with nearly real time settlements, crypto and blockchain are shaping flexibility and innovation for institutions all over the globe and your city. Join Ripple and host David Schwartz for crypto and blockchain conversations on Blockstars, the podcast it's happening with Ripple. Bring in show music please.

[Katie Kramer]

Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod, Elon Musk, trillionaire.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

To become a trillionaire because he's already got how much?

[Joe Kernan]

A lot more than he'll ever need.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

400 billion.

[Joe Kernan]

Yeah, he wants to be in charge.

[Katie Kramer]

Tesla shareholders approving an historic pay package that would make the world's richest person even richer.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

These ETs, I can't believe we're even talking tease like this.

[Katie Kramer]

As long as he hits the car company's very lofty goals. Musk biographer Walter Isaacson isn't so quick to doubt this time around.

[Walter Isaacson]

It seems more than just a stretch goal. It seems a moonshot goal. But you and I and many others thought it was unlikely last time and he did it.

[Katie Kramer]

And the Trump White House's plan to lower the cost of popular weight loss drugs for consumers. Dr. Oz, administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid, lays out the prescription.

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

Unfortunately, most Americans can't afford these drugs. They're 12, $1300 a month. So in this deal, we are reducing the cost on average to about $250 a month. And if you're on Medicare, which I administer, you're going to pay $50 copay. Government will pick up the rest.

[Katie Kramer]

All that today and much more like Warren Buffett's warning on AI it's Friday, November 7th. Squawk Pod begins right now.

[Joe Kernan]

Stand Andre by in 3, 2, 1.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Q. Andrew, good morning and welcome to Squawk Box right here on CNBC. We're live @ the NASDAQ markets at Times Square. Manager Sorkin along with Joe Kernan. Becky is off on this Friday morning, but we got a lot going on. You're saying to the downside, no No.

[Joe Kernan]

I don't like the term. They were seeing things. Trading events, I think. Yeah. Things are lower. You don't need eight words.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So here we are. Dow Jones off.

[Joe Kernan]

How many hours on TV did you do yesterday, would you say in addition to ours?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Oh, goodness, a lot.

[Joe Kernan]

You are just. What is someone like that called? You're just a multimedia sort of renaissance man. Just everywhere. Right.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Trying to be.

[Joe Kernan]

Do you like. Are you enjoying it or you want it to be over? This is all about the book 1929. Do we have that ready to go at all times? 19. Do we have it ready to go?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We should have it ready. You should have it. We don't have it ready to go as we talk.

[Joe Kernan]

I should have said something. I did so. But I didn't see any of your. Your other appearances there.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You'll see them over time. Some of them were live, some of them on other channels.

[Joe Kernan]

There's probably some of them perhaps were on other channels that I will never see.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

That's possible. I know you have. You're glued to one channel.

[Joe Kernan]

No, I'm not.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Cnbc.

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Kernan]

This is troubling. It's not Thanksgiving yet, thank God. US Airlines starting to cancel flights after the FAA ordered reductions because of air traffic controller strain, which obviously is tied to the shutdown. Controllers have been working without pay since the shutdown began on October 1st. And according to FlightAware, more than 800 US flights have been canceled for today. That's already more than four times higher than the average on any given day. The FAA ordered 40 airports to reduce air traffic, including Atlanta, Dallas, Los Angeles, New York and Chicago. The FAA saying that 4% of flights will be affected today, ramping up to 10% by next Friday. Hertz says it's seeing an uptick in car rental reservations. You can always drive if you have the time.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I don't have. I was just. Because of you just now. I was checking to make sure that my flight was not canceled. I'm headed to the great state of Texas for more. This is Texas, the Texas Book Festival.

[Joe Kernan]

This won't be broadcast. This. This is.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

They probably. These days, everything is broadcast and it's.

[Joe Kernan]

Because of the book tour for your. Your new book, 1929.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You're waiting for the graphic. There we go. Finally, let's talk about what's happening in the great state of Texas.

[Joe Kernan]

Russia, now that they finally got it.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I know, but we've got a lot of news to get to.

[Joe Kernan]

Well, this one. This was a kind of a noble Tesla shareholder in spite of Norway, whose GDP is about a third of the market cap of Tesla. But they didn't want this to happen.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Let's, let's just tell everybody what happened. Tesla shareholders did approve that pay package for the CEO Elon Musk that could eventually be worth $1 trillion. Got to meet a lot of targets to get there. The EV maker saying the plan got 75% support.

[Joe Kernan]

We have a fantastic board, fantastic group.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Of shareholders, thank you all.

[Joe Kernan]

And what we're about to embark upon is not merely a new chapter of.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The future of Tesla, but a whole new book. Pay package consists of 12 tranches of shares to be granted to Musk. That's if Tesla hits certain milestones for the next decade. Among those targets, growth in the company's earnings and market value. Tesla delivering a million of its yet to be released optimus robots. That's just one of the targets. Prediction market Kalshi up with a contract right now on when Musk will become a trillionaire. Musk making some other headlines of the meeting, but before we even get there, look at that for a second. So 55% chance, more than a fit, more than a 50% chance by 2030 that he is a trillionaire.

[Joe Kernan]

2029, more than a 50% chance.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But you also, but by the way, for that to happen, my understanding is, I mean he would effectively to capture, well, to become a trillionaire because he's already got how much?

[Joe Kernan]

I don't know, a lot more than he'll ever need.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

400 billion.

[Joe Kernan]

Yeah, he wants to be in charge.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Right, but, but the contracts for another trillion. So they're not. This is not even suggesting that he gets all of it. This is suggesting, I think he gets just probably a little bit more than half of it. Of course they got to get the market cap to over $8 billion for him to get 8. I'm sorry, $8 trillion with a T. Sorry. It's early in the morning and bees and treaties. Can't believe we even talk in teas and teas like this.

[Joe Kernan]

You can't believe we're talking about tease on a day like this, on the same week that New York City elected basically whatever you want to call him, a democratic socialist, a communist, whatever you want to call him. He's 34 years old and he absolutely eviscerates anyone who's a billionaire, anyone who's created all that wealth, who's created all those jobs, who've paid taxes and who's all the employees that they employ are paying taxes. All the shareholders that also were enriched as the market cap grows on most of the company if their founders, not all of them are founders. Obviously some of them inherited. But the idea that, that billionaires are not a positive force. Someone like Elon Musk for society. That's where we are right now in this. The zeitgeist of the moment. And I find it incredibly frustrating. I know you'll push back and give me the other side, but this is a 34 year old who's never had an actual job, probably hasn't contributed one thing to what's going on in this country versus Elon Musk who this is not a zero sum game. He didn't steal the trillion dollars from other people. He didn't take it out of baby's mouths. It's not that people aren't getting. It's not a zero sum game. This is creating wealth. And you got, like I said, you got a place like Norway, their entire gdp. No one in Norway has ever created anything close to this in terms of wealth and impact on society and the future possibilities of what Elon Musk is doing. Maybe Walter Isaacson can say all this when he comes on.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So I'm not going to take the other side of this at all.

[Joe Kernan]

Because you've been, you've been, you've been supportive of his PayPal in the past.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

100%. I remain that way if he can pull it off. But I do want to say this, I do want to say this piece of it.

[Joe Kernan]

Okay.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I think that if you are Elon Musk or you are the elites in this country, you got to not consider what's going on here.

[Joe Kernan]

No one's denying it.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

No, no. And try to figure out how either to fix it, fix it and, or make it seem. And not just seem feel fairer. So we often talk about the tax code, people paying taxes. It seems to me that there's so much low hanging fruit. I've been talking about this forever. That would make the country both more economically viable and it would end. I think people would say okay, people are paying their fair share. That it might change some of the dynamic around this. But there's so much pushback on the other side around, you know, whether it's estate taxes we've talked about over the years or carried interest or I would argue to you that potentially capital gains taxes at the super high end. If you want to, you know, there are things that we could do.

[Joe Kernan]

I agree. That would make people feel that might be necessary but not sufficient. You can raise more money but you still don't know what the hell to do. With it. We've got a lot of money now. We failed at solving all these problems. Jamie Dimon talked about it Yesterday. The bottom 20% of the country, they don't live in a safe place, they don't get decent education, they don't have any upward mobility. There's a lot of problems. But just simple transfer payments from the haves to the have nots is not going to do it.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I mean, you think it's transfer payments into itself.

[Joe Kernan]

You just want to raise taxes to do what with?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Because I think there's lots of things that you would want to do. We do a lot.

[Joe Kernan]

We try to do a lot of things already and we fail miserably.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We fail miserably. But I think both on the education side of how we do things, how.

[Joe Kernan]

Are you going to fix that? Charter schools, you got one side with the teachers union that won't allow any charges.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I understand. I believe that ultimately the charter school approach is going to be a much better. Not across the board, but to create competition in the business is completely and utterly necessary.

[Joe Kernan]

On health care, not everyone agrees with you there.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Not everyone. No, no. Look, very few people, I think on.

[Joe Kernan]

A certain, in a certain party, I.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Think that the unions in the, in the school systems unfortunately have created a demonstrable problem that needs to be fixed, self serving. But that doesn't mean we need to break up the unions. It means there's other things that we can do.

[Joe Kernan]

Health care, what do you want to do with health care? That's an issue that we need to fix. We've tried to fix Obama. The Unaffordable Care act did not fix it. We need to do a lot more than that to try to figure out maybe we go, do you want to just have carte blanche for all health care across the board? Some. A lot of countries have that. A lot of people argue for that. Will that fix it or will we have flat GDP for 15 years like Canada?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I'm not sure having better health care is going to create flat GDP in America.

[Joe Kernan]

No. Having worse health care, spending all your money, trying to do that one way or Canada's got a lot of problems. But I'm responding to some of the mail that I get sometimes but which has caused me to look at really what's happened over the last 10, 15 years.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But I think spending more money on infrastructure will, by the way, pay dividends down the road. Pay dividends in terms of just our ability to grow as a country.

[Joe Kernan]

Spending money on infrastructure and, and you're going to say picking winners and losers because Trump does it too. But infrastructure and the way that it was done with, you know, you got to force a transition to clean energy. You got to do renewables, you got to have electrical vehicle mandates by 2030. That type of infrastructure isn't helping anyone. You see the news on Ford?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I did see the.

[Joe Kernan]

They've lost $13 billion on the EV transition and they're going to stop making it. Who buys, who of these rednecks out in the middle of the country buys an F150 that's electric? But none of them.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But here's the other problem. We're now getting into a situation in this country where because of the tariffs that we've put together, we do not, we will never have a competitive car. Well, automobile industry.

[Joe Kernan]

Someone ever, I saw someone say if the, the tariffs get struck down, the market's going to go up 5,000 points. If the tariffs get struck down. I don't believe, I don't happen to believe that's the case. I think it'd be somewhere in the middle. But we may get to find out what happened. But I do think, I'm sorry about the Ford. Maybe some other people buy electric, but, but you know what I mean, guys with the cowboy hats down in Texas probably aren't plugging in there. They like the big gas guzzling.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

That's best selling vehicle. All I'm saying is that to not be, not just cognizant of, but we need to think more about what is going on in this country and why some, some of this country feels the way they do. You and I may not feel this way, but we got to figure it. You got to, we just got to spend more time on it.

[Joe Kernan]

We do hear, we've been hearing this from Dalio for, you know, 10 years. We have a civil war and we, we do need to pay attention to it. And there's, there's no doubt. But then part of the reason that these tariffs that Trump is even trying to do it is to try to address the hollowed out middle class in the middle of the country where capitalism, it's not capitalism's fault. It's the way that capitalism is sort of poisoned by different government regulation. But globalization, when you can get $2 an hour workers in the rest of the world, you saw what happened. We lost how many thousands of factories in the middle of the country. Does tariffs fix that? How do we know?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But the other question is, would we be better off actually trying to upskill those workers that would have historically been involved in manufacturing and Move them into a services economy.

[Joe Kernan]

There are apparently Ivy Leaguers that have philosophy degrees that are jealous of guys that know how to weld.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, look, this is the next complication of AI and technology, which I think is going to make short of ubi.

[Joe Kernan]

Short of ubi. Paid for by your billionaires. But what's your answer?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It's not paid for by. By billionaires.

[Joe Kernan]

You're going to get some of the money, right?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, maybe you'd get some of the money from the billionaires, but the truth.

[Joe Kernan]

Is they run out, too.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

If you collected all of the money from the billionaires, not enough, you know, you'd be six months into one year. But that doesn't mean that you don't want to collect some of it also, because you have people in this country who don't think that it's a fair system. And they're looking at that and saying, how is this happening? So there has also been.

[Joe Kernan]

And you've got a lot of people using that as an excuse to not even try.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Sure. And. But that's the point. And that's why you need to create a semblance of something that feels fair to people.

[Joe Kernan]

I think of all of most countries in the world, the possibility of doing something here is better than anywhere else in terms of upward mobility. You disagree with that still?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I don't disagree with that. I just think that it's not preordained. I don't think that. Well, we've worked with. We've talked about how you don't throw the baby out with the American. Exceptionalism is not preordained. We have to work at it all the time.

[Joe Kernan]

But it's capitalism. I saw someone written to me yesterday leaving out all the good that socialism has done in the world. They brought up India and they brought up China, and it's like neither one of those places brought people out of poverty from socialism. They brought it out from pseudo forms of capitalism.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We got to go. I'm told that there's actually news today.

[Joe Kernan]

We just made some news. Warren Buffett says, don't believe everything that you see. The legendary investor found videos posted on Google that purport to behembit or video images or AI created images impersonating him, and he called out the videos. In a press release from Berkshire Hathaway last night, it says in part, Mr. Buffett is concerned that these types of fraudulent videos are becoming a spreading virus. Individuals who are less familiar with Mr. Buffett may believe that these videos are real and. And be misled by the contents. It's not the first time Buffett has flagged this type of content. The Berkshire release also pointing to this coming Monday when Buffett will release his annual Thanksgiving letter. If, if you see a video where he says, man, I just sold a lot of blank, or I just bought a lot of blank, it's not him because you only find out what he does from filings, like months after.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I have not seen these videos, usually on my algorithm, I would think, but.

[Joe Kernan]

The way you'd want to use them is to, like, pump a stock or to do something, I guess, try to manipulate something.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I imagine somebody might try to do that, right?

[Joe Kernan]

I mean, I don't, I don't think it's dangerous that he's saying, like, silly stuff or, I don't know, something funny. You know, a meme type thing. It'd be something you try to use to, to manipulate. To manipulate or to sell gold or something like that. Something like that.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I mean, you've, they, they've used your image and not AI, but you, They've used your image to try to sell gold or all sorts of things. They've used my image online.

[Joe Kernan]

I've been recommending all kinds of stuff on some of these. If, if it has some weird, like 8 in my handle instead of just Oswock. It's not me, it's just. And I'm not on Facebook and I'm not on Instagram, so it's either Twitter or nothing. And I've got my check mark.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You've got your check mark.

[Joe Kernan]

And I've got tens of dozens of followers.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So that should be well after you've blocked all the others. Coming up, folks, cheese will be next.

[Katie Kramer]

Coming up on Squawk Pod, Dr. Mehmet Oz joins us.

[Joe Kernan]

Different than O's Perla, they both do.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Different forms of magic.

[Katie Kramer]

He now runs the center for Medicare and Medicaid. And the Trump administration has announced negotiated lower prices for popular prescription weight loss drugs.

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

We're making it easier for companies to say yes. They're bringing their prices in line with what other countries are paying. It's fairer for America, but it's also more sustainable for these pharmaceutical companies. And that's why in general, their stock prices are staying strong.

[Katie Kramer]

Plus how the quick thinking doctor reacted when an attendee at the White House announcement needed medical attention right after this. Every business has unique needs. Perhaps your business needs a better way.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

To manage cash flow, help protect against.

[Katie Kramer]

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[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Here's Andrew the White House reaching deals with Eli Lilly and Novo Nordisk to cut prices for their popular weight loss drugs. The Trump administration officials now saying that monthly out of pocket costs for injections and upcoming pills could range from 50 to $350 starting next year. That depends on dosage and insurance coverage as well. Medicare is going to start covering the drugs for obesity for the first time starting in mid-2026. We're going to speak with the administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid services. Dr. Oz is going to be with us.

[Joe Kernan]

Different than Oz Perlman.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

They both do different forms of magic.

[Joe Kernan]

Oh, that's nice of you to say that about.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Mehmet Memmet has saved lives. That's magic unto itself.

[Joe Kernan]

Was one of the leading surgeons for heart transplant. That's who Roger Altman wanted to do his heart. So he's not just a guy on TV like some of the other people in the administration, not just people on tv. Besides, we're on tv. Why are we trashing people on TV all the time?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I don't you're the one talking White.

[Joe Kernan]

House announcing a deal with Eli Lilly and Novo Nordisk to slash prices of obesity Drugs. Joining us now at the details, Dr. Mehmet Oz, the administrator for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. And we've seen a couple of instances of this, Mr. Secretary, and thank you for joining us. We appreciate you. I guess I should call you Mr. Administrator, not Mr. Secretary, but we appreciate you. That sounds weird, doesn't it? I'm going to call you Dr. Oz. Everybody knows that. Dr. Oz, I want to talk to you about really what Democrats want to open the government. But let's talk about this first. Is this a template for what we can do with a lot of different overpriced pharmaceuticals if they are overpriced?

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

Let's set the stage. Joe, I know you know this, but for everyone who doesn't appreciate how much of a ripoff we've been living through with global freeloading, the president adamantly has been saying that he will no longer tolerate the American people paying three times more for the exact same drugs made in the same factories, put in the same bottles in the same boxes as folks pay in Europe. And so this most favored nation drug pricing strategy has resulted in, initially with a leading US company, Pfizer, then a leading European company, AstraZeneca, then we did all the fertility drugs, and today maybe the biggest of all, because it's the single largest category of drug spend In America, these GLP1 weight loss drugs. And the reason yesterday that we embarked on this voyage to try and share with America why this is such a critical opportunity is because if you're sitting in my seat, if you're administering Medicare and Medicaid and the exchanges, you need to figure out how to bend that cost curve down because they're increasing at 7, 8, 9%, and that's 3, 4 or 5% faster than the economy is growing. So we've got to find a way of actually bringing the real costs down, not just throwing money at it to reduce what consumers pay, but actually, actually bringing down total cost of care. And if you're going to drop drug prices meaningfully, you'll do that. But in particular in this category because of all the things we can do. Joe, reducing obesity in America not only buys us a lot of health, but it also reduces the health care spend. We estimate that obesity by itself probably explains a quarter of the total health care costs. And so by using these medications, which on average can drop your weight 15, 20% over the course of a year. And again, obesity is not an absence of glp. Once you have to use diet, exercise, all the MAHA elements that Secretary Kennedy speaks of are vital to this process. But part of, you know, making life easier, making yourself healthier and making it easy to be healthy, which is what Maha is really about, is using medications if they're effective. So most Americans would consider this if they were overweight and a third of us are. Unfortunately, most Americans can't afford these drugs. They're 12, $1,300 a month. So in this deal, we are reducing the cost on average to about $250 a month. And if you're on Medicare, which I administer, you're going to pay $50 copay and government pick up the rest. And we can afford that because at that price point, within two years it'll be cost neutral. It'll save us so much by reducing downstream problems of obesity like hypertension and problems with diabetes and down, and even bigger problems like renal failure, strokes, heart attacks, dementia, that will actually start saving money. And if you're on Medicaid, it'll be free to you, which is still okay because governors have a moral hazard right now. Obesity is rampant in underserved, vulnerable populations, but they're the ones who benefit the most as well and reduce costs when you do that. So we'll actually help state budgets by driving down these prices.

[Joe Kernan]

The narrative of the pharmaceutical companies, Dr. Was that the way Europe offered these drugs at much lower prices was basically price controls. And you know, the innovation is done here in this country. And in this country we allow companies that spend a lot of money up front on research and development of these great drugs. We allow them to recoup all that investment. Whereas if it was in Europe and you don't allow them to price the drugs to where you can actually benefit from all your research and development, there's not as much innovation over there. And if we import those price controls here, the argument is from the pharmaceutical industry that they're not going to be able to afford innovation and testing on new drugs. Is that totally false or is the truth somewhere in the middle?

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

I think that specific narrative is false. And my evidence for that is all these drug companies, Eli Lilly, Novo Nordisk, are well run companies. Their CEOs were in the Oval Office. They came there willingly. They were not hostages. They've all signed these deals. Adviser did to AstraZeneca as well. The argument that we're making and they're agreeing with is that it's inherently unfair for us to play three times more. We still pay most of the money for development, but I hear the concern that we need to be able to innovate. And so if you get Europeans to pay a bit more, we can pay a bit less. Also, some of the areas we're giving opportunities to companies include giving them access to larger populations by making these drugs more affordable. But, Joe, here's the real conversation. You sit in a room with these executives, you look them in the eye and say you went into this business because at some point you really cared about people. And as an American, and in the case of the Eli Lilly CEO, he is said, you really want to have your legacy about making an innovative medication class that is changing lives, accessible to everybody. It's the most American thing we can do. It's about fairness. And the president has adamantly been pushing this narrative because most Americans get that story. I'd also give you a better metaphor than what you were saying. I think it's more like Naito. We have external threats. Everyone's got to chip in. How much they chip in is the question. Yes, maybe we'll pay a bit more and in some instances to get the innovation there, but we all have to defend ourselves. NATO countries are chipping in more. We're asking the same thing right now for an internal threat, disease, illness, cancer. And I'll share one big secret with you. If you have an advanced cancer in America, your survival numbers are better than if you're in Europe because you actually get access to all these drugs. There are no price controls here. The market moves this. We're making it easier for companies to say yes. They're bringing their prices in line with what other countries are paying. It's fairer for America, but it's also more sustainable for these pharmaceutical companies. And that's why, in general, their stock prices are staying strong. Investors realize they want stability in the markets and they don't want government coming down hard. These are negotiated settlements. And I've got news for you. There's a dozen more companies waiting in line to come down the pike to have their prices aligned with what the rest of the world is paying.

[Joe Kernan]

Thank you, Doctor, for that. You're going to have to fix the health care system in the United States or make the Affordable Care act actually affordable instead of the Unaffordable Care Act. Let's talk about this government shutdown so we know it's a clean cr. It's the same funding that the Biden administration was doing. The government should have stayed open, but the Democrats, maybe they. They have a point, you know, that people need to, obviously, people that are going to have their subsidies double or triple. It's something that resonates with people and that's why you can't even find. You would think if a party closes down the government to get something that they want through extortion, you would think that the Republicans would have the upper hand. That's not what it is because the health care system is so broken. And the, I guess the rap is that Trump talks about President Trump talks about alternatives, Republicans talk about fixing the health care system. But right now, Obamacare is all we have and it's important to the people that have it.

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

Well, Obamacare is a program I manage and I'm going to take care of it. Just to put it in context, the average person in original Obamacare, which is folks making between one and four times the poverty level, their average premium is going to be $50 this year. We know that because the, the numbers are already out there. Healthcare.gov is already, the marketplace is open, people are signing up. So it's average premium that you have to pay out of pocket is $50 and that's $13 more than this year. So in that original population, there doesn't seem to be a huge issue and we're not hearing huge complaints. The the added benefit that occurred during COVID Again, we're not talking about the actual subsidies to the aca, to the exchanges. They're already there. They didn't change. There were additional subsidies added that took the support from being 80% of your of your cost of care to 90% plus. That's the part that's being disputed. And that really hits hard at what's called the cliff when you get above 400% of the poverty level. And there's a little bit of a hazard here because if you look at all the examples that you see in the newspapers, it's usually a 62 year old who has $150,000 pension that's more than four times poverty level. And so they retired early because they could crush on the Affordable Care act insurance program subsidized by the government. And now they can't retire early. They've got to wait till Medicare, the other program I administer for that reason. So I completely feel that pain. And that's really the area that most of this debate is about. But you've hit a very important issue. The real concern is the total overall cost of care in medicine. It's just increasing too much. And the real salvation to this is not going to be throwing more money at premium dollars or enhanced premium dollars or Covid era enhanced premium dollars. I mean, after a while it becomes hard to keep up with how many Subsidies there are. We have to actually reduce the underlying cost of care. That's why in the one big beautiful bill we did offer some solutions. There was something called a CSR that would have naturally brought down premiums in the exchanges. It was rejected by the Democrats. They didn't want an answer. And that's why I think this is being used as a political tool. The things we need to do to truly reduce cost of care, the Democratic Party doesn't seem to enhance. They just want government to pay more for it. It's not a long term sustainable solution. And just like we did with the most favored nation drug pricing with pharmaceutical companies, you've got to come to the table with solutions everyone rationally thinks can make sense long term. But what we did in one big beautiful bill was bend the curve for Medicaid. We've got to do the same thing with the aca.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But doctor, I think the big question is ultimately how to do that and what that really looks like. And not, I mean, we could take the government shutdown piece of this out of the situation, but if you were king for the day, and I know President Trump has been talking since he was president last time about trying to fix things meaningfully, do you think you could ultimately reduce costs and provide better service? Is that, is that even possible? Or do you think it's just a fundamental change in expectations that has to take place?

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

It is absolutely possible to reduce costs. I'll give you two concrete examples. Over 10% of the $1.75 trillion that I administer is fraud, waste and abuse that we can deal with. And we're getting aggressive. And just this week we put out a rule to take out $23 billion of what we believe often was not well spent money with these skin substitutes that are no longer going to be sold the way they were, where you actually literally pay doctors and an extra 6% if they pay the most expensive version of the product, not the products that actually are selling in Europe for fractions of the price. And the second big issue, which will probably take the health care costs down at least another 10%, is by truly empowering beneficiaries with information. Every other industry you talk about, as for example, you were mentioning earlier, all these industries benefit, whether you're Uber Eats or Uber itself or streaming videos, they benefit from AI supporting the system. Banks work better that way. We haven't brought those tools in the medicine in a meaningful fashion. And we have a digital transformation that we are heavily embarked on that will allow us to bring those same efficiencies into the health care system and by empowering patients at the time of care with better information about what they ought to do, by nudging them with insights that can help them with chronic illnesses by giving doctors incentives to use these tools and giving them also the better ability to manage their care. As medicine rapidly advances with better tools that cost less, we reduce cost. And the most important message I have is bad care is expensive. You pay someone to do a bad job, you pay someone to fix that bad job, and you pay for the complications. So the most important thing we can do in health care to reduce costs is improve the quality. And this president is committed to this. Secretary Kennedy will not take no for an answer. That's what Maha is really about. And I'm passionate. We'll get to that. The finish line.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Dr. Oz, just to bring the conversation full circle, since we started at GLP1s, I'm just curious about one component part of this, which is how quickly do you think that the GLP1 drugs are actually going to improve? I mean, one of the things that a lot of people worry about is muscle loss and all of the sort of component part issues in that. And I wonder whether, I mean, as you think about trade offs and also what you think we're going to learn about these drugs and how they work over time.

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

The fields are advancing rapidly. I learned yesterday. I'll break news with you here because I had the CEOs cornered in the Oval Office. We are going to have pills, pill versions of these on the market by March. Marty McCary, who runs the FDA is going to fast track these approvals. And so we're already looking at a new generation of solutions. We estimate that the American people will lose about 135 million pounds over the next year with these solutions. And we are also optimistic that within two years they'll pay for themselves, as I mentioned, just because they're going to reduce some of the health care expenses, but they're also going to be made in ways that reduce the muscle loss, some of the side effects, the anorexia. But you know, Aaron, there's other benefits as well. There, there's a reduction in addictive behavior. I mean, there's less online shopping. So there's other opportunities for these family of medications that go just, they go far beyond just overeating.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And then finally, doctor, you got put into service yesterday inside the Oval Office. Tell us what happened because we were all watching this video that's gone viral.

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

Well, standing for hours at a time, if you don't Know how to do it the right way can be difficult. And this wonderful gentleman, I noticed his knees were beginning to buckle. And you don't have to be a doctor to know this. The most important thing if someone's about to faint is catch them, you know, and make sure because that big injury happens when they bang their head on the ground. The cause of the fainting is almost always manageable. So we got him down, we put a little chocolate in his mouth, we got an IV in, and he got excellent medical care. And I connected with him last night. He went home to his wonderful wife. But I got to share some just a little behind the scenes here. The President, God bless him, called the wife from the Oval Office, giving her updates on how her husband was doing. I got it. When you actually know the man as a human being, not as a political actor, you have to love him. And I appreciate that he did that.

[Joe Kernan]

And Secretary of hhs, Kennedy was heading off to get a warm tower, initially, I think to get a chair because the guy's knees were buckling. The haters on the left, I mean, the conspiracy theories, I'm not even sure what they're implying he was running for. Were they. What are they? Why are they asking why RFK Jr was going out of the picture? What else would it be? He was afraid it was contagious or something. I don't even, I don't even know where they get these ideas.

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

Joe. He literally went to get a towel because he bit himself.

[Joe Kernan]

I know what he was doing. I fully know what he was doing. But it's just, it's just beyond beyond belief. Anyway, Dr. Oz, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

God bless you.

[Katie Kramer]

Next on Squawk Pod, will Elon Musk be the world's first trillionaire? Well, Tesla shareholders voted to approve his path to get there, but not without hitting some big milestones like sex toppling the company's market value. Musk biographer Walter Isaacson has a message for those with raised eyebrows.

[Walter Isaacson]

I remember you in 2018 and you were quoting all of your sources in the financial industry and you said for that 50 some odd billion dollar pay package that hitting the marks would be almost impossible, that everybody you talked to said it was ridiculous. Well, he did it.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The heaviest metal credit card of all.

[Joe Kernan]

Time, rumored to be one of only.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

18 in existence, plated with the very same tungsten that forged the International Space Station and wielded at business dinners like a samurai sword.

[Joe Kernan]

It's a classic corporate power move.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But the real power move, having end to end visibility on Your most critical shipments. FedEx.

[Joe Kernan]

The new power move.

[Katie Kramer]

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[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

History making moment, folks. Tesla CEO Elon Musk after shareholders approved a pay package worth up to $1 trillion. Here's a guy who's got a memory. Elon Musk, author Walter Isaacson. He's a Perella Weinberg advisor, partner, advisory partner, professor at Tulane, CNBC contributor, friend of the show, and it's great to see you, sir. Nice to see you, Walter. Contextualize this for us. You know, I think there's a lot of people who are looking at what some people even describe as a split screen, this idea that no, Elon Musk is on his way to potentially a trillion dollar pay package. He's got to do a lot for that to happen at the same time in our country or at least in this city, New York, where Mondami won. And I think people are trying to sort of grapple with sort of the larger philosophical question that's taking place in our country before we even get into the Elon Musk of it all. What do you think?

[Walter Isaacson]

Well, it's definitely true that right now you have greater, greater excesses of wealth and inequalities of wealth. He wrote about it in 1929 in your book when you had those sort of things. And it leads to a populist backlash. And I think you're seeing that when.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You look at the pay package that, that, that shareholders approved. I don't think they truly had an option in all of this. If you were handicapping the situation, what do you think the chances are that he, he hits these milestones? I mean, the last time this kind of pay package was put together, people thought it was absurd, it was never going to happen.

[Walter Isaacson]

I'm going to prove you right about historical memory because I remember you in 2018 and you were quoting all of your sources in the financial industry and you said for that 50 some odd billion dollar pay package that hitting the marks would be almost impossible, that everybody you talked to said it was ridiculous.

[Joe Kernan]

We.

[Walter Isaacson]

Well, he did it this time it seems even more of an insane moonshot. He's got to get a million robots sold, a million totally driverless cars sold. I think increase the share price of the company sixfold. So it seems more than just a stretch goal. It seems a moonshine goal. But pulling back my historical perspective, you and I and many others thought it was unlikely last time and he did it.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Here's a different philosophical question. So I love the sort of paper performance idea. The truth is the Tesla shareholders will, if he does well, they will do even better. There's no question. Having said that, you know, there's another view, which is you look at somebody like a Jeff Bezos or Warren Buffett who got stock in their company at the very beginning and never got another share of stock. What do you think about just those two different approaches?

[Walter Isaacson]

Well, certainly I think that Mosque feels he needs the stock not only for the money of it, he wants control of a company that's going to be taking AI and put it into the real world settings. And he said this for five, six, seven years. If he's going to do the Optimus robot, the self driving cars. He founded Open Air with Sam Altman because he wanted control over how I would be deployed and in his mind keep it safe. He tried to fold Open Air into Tesla a few years ago and that didn't work. So I think the main thing here is him feeling that he needs at least 25% if he's going to have robotics, Optimus, full self driving and AI all in one company.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What do you think about the. There was another vote, fascinating one about whether the board should consider acquiring a part of, or I guess potentially all of though I think was really about a part of potentially X AI his, his, his business that includes the social media platform, but really is his AI effort.

[Walter Isaacson]

Yeah, you put your finger on a man, this is so interesting. He started X AI and I have a chapter or two on it in the book because he wanted to have a separate AI company and he felt he needed to make it an independent company. But deep inside he knew it should always be inside of Tesla, just like he thought Open Air should migrate to inside of Tesla. What you had is the shareholders very split on the notion should Tesla take a major stake in Elon Musk AI company. It kind of passed, but there were so many extensions. And, and the particularly interesting thing is Robin Denholz, the outside director who's chair of the Tesla board, says, well, they have different missions so maybe that shouldn't happen. I think you're going to see that play out in a pretty tense way because I suspect Elon Musk is going to want to take all of his AI work, including building the chips working with Nvidia. They should all be part of one company eventually.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Walter Isaacson, it's always good to see you and get your perspective on something that you are truly an expert in. We appreciate it. Thank you.

[Katie Kramer]

That is the pod for today and for the week. It's Friday. We made it to another weekend. Congrats to us. Squawk Box is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Tune in weekday mornings on cnbc at the 6 Eastern to get the smartest takes and analysis from our TV show right into your ears. Follow Squawkpod wherever you get your podcasts. We'll meet you right back here on Monday. Have a great weekend.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

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