Expanding Trump Accounts with IRS CEO & SSA Commissioner 07/16/26

Summary

Squawk Pod Episode Summary

Episode Title: Expanding Trump Accounts with IRS CEO & SSA Commissioner
Date: July 16, 2026
Hosts: Joe Kernen, Becky Quick, Andrew Ross Sorkin
Special Guests: Frank Bisignano (IRS CEO & Social Security Commissioner), Robert Fishman (MoffettNathanson Analyst)

Overview

This episode centers around major updates to federal financial programs, with a deep-dive interview featuring Frank Bisignano, who has been appointed to an unprecedented triple role overseeing the IRS, Social Security Administration, and the expansion of the Trump Accounts program for newborn Americans. The hosts also discuss global trade news, a landmark Uber acquisition, World Cup drama, and a forward-looking discussion about Netflix’s prospects with senior analyst Robert Fishman.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. U.S. Trade Policy: New Tariffs on Brazil

• [02:10] Becky Quick: Reports on the U.S. imposing 25% tariffs on most Brazilian imports due to unfair trade practices, political content controls by Brazilian authorities, and barriers to U.S. goods.
  • Exemptions: Beef, orange juice, aircraft, and some energy products.
  • Political context: President Trump aims to reassert trade authority following Supreme Court challenges.
  • Implications for Brazil: Brazilian President vows countermeasures; trade tensions likely to impact global markets.

“President Trump has been seeking to reassert his authority over trade. … We’re now seeing the administration going through the process of trying to evaluate each country on a country by country basis.” — Becky Quick [02:28]

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2. Middle East Tensions and Oil Prices

• [03:27] Andrew Ross Sorkin: Coverage of escalating U.S.-Iran tensions and their impact on oil prices.
  • President Trump warned of targeting Iranian infrastructure if no diplomatic breakthrough is made.
  • Market reaction: Despite worries, oil hovers below $80/barrel.

“A lot of people thought oil would go up to $350 a barrel and today it's at $79. … When that settles down, I think you're going to have $55 oil, maybe less than that.” — Donald Trump (quoted) [04:00]

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3. Uber’s Acquisition of Delivery Hero

• [04:40] Becky Quick: Highlights Uber’s $14.8B purchase of Delivery Hero, creating the largest non-China delivery firm.
  • The deal involves divesting overlapping businesses to SSW Partners and a significant premium paid on Delivery Hero’s share price.

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4. World Cup & Pop Culture

• [05:48] Andrew Ross Sorkin: Recap of Argentina’s dramatic 2-1 comeback win over England in the World Cup semifinals.
  • England criticized for tactical decisions.
  • Social media reaction; tens of millions watching worldwide.
  • Fun pop culture crossovers: Mick Jagger and Messi in the stands.

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5. Feature Interview: Frank Bisignano – IRS CEO, SSA Commissioner & Trump Accounts Lead

Program Expansion and Vision

• [10:20] Introduction: Over 6.5M families have signed up for Trump Accounts since launch on July 4th. Bisignano to lead expansion, targeting 70M enrolled children.

• Distribution Strategy:

  • Partnerships with tax preparers, financial planners, banks, and major philanthropists like Michael Dell.
  • Aim: Universal financial access and literacy for American children; $1,000 per newborn for 4 years.

“I think the objective is to have 70 million children under 18 to have a Trump account. It’s a great vehicle. It’s generationally changing. It's bringing financial literacy to youth also.” — Frank Bisignano [10:52]

Functionality and Policy Challenges

• [15:34] Asset Policy Debate:
  • Query over whether donations (e.g., SpaceX stock) must be sold and reinvested in index funds or held as single stocks until age 18.
  • Bisignano confirms the program’s core intent is broad diversification (S&P 500 index) vs. individual stocks.

"If you want to go to the core, you're going to say what we want these children to own is an index fund and see the growth... not be single stock focused." — Frank Bisignano [16:49, also repeated from 01:04 as a framing quote]

Political Headwinds:

• Challenges in reaching full adoption due to program branding (“Trump Account”) and political divides.
• Bisignano draws parallels with initial resistance to Social Security modernization.

"It sounds preposterous to think that someone wouldn't want to do this for their children just because they don't want to do something associated with [Trump]... But it’s the way it is in the country right now. Sad to say." — Andrew Ross Sorkin [17:44]

Government Modernization: SSA & IRS

• [19:07] Digital Transformation: Massive surge in IRS online usage and users; SSA is now the largest digital financial service org in the U.S.
• Focus on transformation: Not just modernization, but redesigning client experience from the ground up.
  • Error rates in SSA databases found to be as high as 10%—major efforts underway to reconcile, eliminate fraud, and improve customer service (hold times improved from 40 minutes to 1 minute).

“We don’t have a funding problem, right? Like we have a get work done problem. … We can do more with less, okay? But technology is a great enabler.” — Frank Bisignano [20:12]

• Questions remain on long-term solvency for Social Security; Bisignano remains focused on operational efficiency over policy debate about raising retirement age.

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6. Netflix: Earnings Expectations and Strategic Outlook

Analyst View from Robert Fishman

• [25:11] Netflix’s Competitive Landscape:
  • Netflix judged winner of the streaming wars; the question is growth sustainability.
  • Concerns about content quality, engagement declines, and business model adaptation (sports, live, FAST channels).

“I think the narrative around Netflix has really shifted and now the question is how much more growth is to come.” — Robert Fishman [25:52]

• Strategy Options & M&A Prospects:
  • Potential for further investment in sports content and bundling offerings.
  • Mergers & acquisitions: Analyst sees value in acquiring studios/IP (Warner Bros., Universal) but not the linear TV assets.
  • Strong belief in organic growth potential and expanding into free ad-supported streaming for advertising revenue.
  • Fishman rates Netflix a “good buy” with over 20% expected earnings growth.

“We do think it’s a good buy here. Great buy. … We see it as very sustainable. … At this price, it’s a very attractive entry point.” — Robert Fishman [31:38]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We have a get work done problem.” — Frank Bisignano [20:12] (encapsulates his leadership philosophy)
• “I report to the president and I have synergistic roles across the government. … If Jamie Dimon was looking at a company had these, he’d have these all together.” — Frank Bisignano [17:23]
• “It sounds preposterous … But it’s the way it is in the country right now.” — Andrew Ross Sorkin [17:44]
• “Hundreds of millions [online inquiries]. Like a 60% increase because we built better technology.” — Frank Bisignano [19:30]
• “I think the attractiveness of the stock position today is this question whether or not the growth is sustainable.” — Robert Fishman [31:38]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• U.S. Tariffs on Brazil: [02:10–03:27]
• Middle East and Oil Prices: [03:27–04:37]
• Uber/Delivery Hero Acquisition: [04:40–05:21]
• World Cup Recap: [05:48–08:13]
• Frank Bisignano Interview (Trump Accounts & Government Modernization): [10:20–23:08]
  • Trump Accounts rollout & intent: [10:52–13:46]
  • Policy & implementation hurdles: [15:34–17:09]
  • IRS & SSA tech transformation: [19:07–22:46]
• Netflix Segment with Robert Fishman: [24:17–32:26]

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Conclusion

This episode offers an in-depth look at the rollout of a landmark U.S. financial initiative for youth, the modernization of two massive federal agencies, and expert perspectives on streaming’s future. It showcases the complexities at the intersection of public policy, technology, and market strategy—all delivered with lively debate and candid insight from leading voices in business and media.

Transcript

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[Becky Quick]

top states for business. See the full list [e-mail] bring in show music please.

[Squawk Pod Host / Producer (Katie Kramer)]

Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod. One man, many jobs. He runs the irs, Social Security and now the Trump accounts investment vehicles for newborns. Frank Bisignano on the newest public program.

[Frank Bisignano]

If you want to go to the core, you're going to say what we want these children to own is an index fund and see the growth of the index fund and not be single stock focused.

[Squawk Pod Host / Producer (Katie Kramer)]

Streaming giant Netflix is poised to report latest financial performance what its 300 million-plus subscribers need to know. Analyst Robert Fishman we do think it's

[Robert Fishman]

a good buy here and I think the attractiveness of the stock position today is this question whether or not the growth is sustainable.

[Squawk Pod Host / Producer (Katie Kramer)]

Plus new tariffs on Brazil, an uber sized deal and watching the rock stars watching the World cup.

[Joe Kernen]

Did you see how perfect oh at the placement.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

That perfect? Yeah.

[Squawk Pod Host / Producer (Katie Kramer)]

It's Thursday, July 16, 2026. Squawk Pod begins right now.

[Becky Quick]

Stand Becky by in three, two, one.

[Joe Kernen]

Good morning everybody. Welcome to Squawk Box right here on cnbc. We are live from the NASDAQ market site in Times Square. I'm Becky Quick along with Joe Kern and Andrew Ross Sorkin.

[Becky Quick]

Meantime, the US has levied 25% tariffs on most imports from Brazil effective next week. It concluded a year long investigation in into alleged unfair trade practices including ordering American tech firms like X Meta and Google to remove certain political content and suspending accounts of US Residents. Also cited Brazil's preferential tariffs from Mexico and India, weak intellectual property enforcement and ethanol market barriers. Certain Brazil goods will be exempt from those tariffs. Those include beef, orange juice, aircraft, aircrafts and other parts and and some energy products. In a statement, Brazil's president rejected the tariff decision as groundless and vowed to Initiate countermeasures now. President Trump has been seeking to reassert his authority over trade. This, of course, after the Supreme Court struck down what was those previous tariffs, including a 50% tariff at that time on Brazilian goods. What we're now seeing, of course, is the administration going through the process of trying to evaluate each country on a country by country basis. And that appears to have a more grounding, grounded, legal basis. The question, of course, is there's questions probably within even, even something like this on the grounding of some of those things and then what Brazil does to retaliate.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And I guess we're going to talk about oil. We've got to talk about what's happening in Iran. Early this morning, Iran warned that it would crush key targets in the Middle east if President Trump carried out his threats to target Iran's infrastructure. On Tuesday, President Trump said if a diplomatic breakthrough isn't achieved by next week, then the US Would target Iran's power plants and bridges. And speaking yesterday at the Pennsylvania Defense and Innovation Summit, President Trump addressed the impact of the war on the price of oil.

[Donald Trump (quoted)]

A lot of people thought oil would go up to $350 a barrel and today it's at $79. A couple of days ago it was, it was at 68. It went up a little bit because I had to take tough action because they did not obey what they're supposed to obey. I mean, they just didn't do it. So we took a little action. But it'll all, when that settles down, you'll be, I think you're going to have $55 oil, which is all great for what you're doing, maybe less than that.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Let's check out where crude prices are in 79, so below 80, which might be a little bit surprising, I guess.

[Joe Kernen]

I was actually surprised to see this morning.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah, Uber buying a German food delivery company, Delivery Hero, for $14.8 billion. It's a big deal to create the world's largest delivery firm outside of China. Uber made that acquisition conditional on a minimum acceptance threshold of 50% plus one share. It's offering $47.58 per share in cash for that company, roughly a 34% premium to the stock's three month average share price. Now, as part of the deal, Delivery Hero will divest businesses in 14 markets where the companies overlap to US investment firm SSW Partners.

[Joe Kernen]

And so that's interesting. Delivery Hero has a much larger area than Germany. Germany, where they're delivering?

[Becky Quick]

Yeah, all over. Yeah, all over. It's a big premium. Too. So big conversation. Understand sort of where Uber goes with all this. The New York Yankees are in advanced talks with Apollo Global Management to raise about $3 billion of financing. That's according to multiple reports that say the two sides are discussing a package that includes mostly debt and some equity. So we're seeing private equity world increasingly move into the world of sports.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And in World cup news, once again, Argentina really showing you how great watching soccer can be. Not if you're a fan of England, obviously, but Argentina defeated England 2 to 1 yesterday in Atlanta to advance to the World cup final Sunday at 3pm England was ahead late in the game, I guess we're calling it the middle part of the second half. But Argentina scored two late goals to win the game. You could see messages, but once again, sort of just decide, I'm not going to let this happen. Spain advanced Tuesday, defeating France. Spain only allowed one goal through the whole tournament. The final matchup, as I said, Met Life 3pm in New Jersey. And 58% of the people are actually betting on Cauchy on Spain winning the World Cup. I don't know whether that's it. It's tough to go back to back. That's what it would be for Argentina. And if you go on social media, the rage and, and just disappointment for the. I guess they're called the Three Lions or something. I don't know, I'm not a big watcher, but the Three Lions, this was everybody's chance that's a fan of English soccer and they invented the game and haven't won the sport, haven't won since the early 60s, I think, and they really felt like they had it. In previous, I guess, matches, they've complained that they got too defensive and that's what they're complaining about. The coach yesterday, three substitutions after they were ahead that the game sort of moved to their side and they were, instead of attacking, they were being trying to play not to lose, instead of playing to win. And people are just furious at this coach and he said, hey, look, whenever you lose, people are going to be mad you lost and I can take it and some stuff like that. But it seems like it might be more than this for. I saw some stuff on, on Twitter, people just cursing and, you know, on a podcast or something as it was happening because it was one to nothing. I was watching the guy goes, no, no, don't substitute. You know, don't do that, don't. And they go, I knew it. You saw, I guess, Mick Jagger.

[Joe Kernen]

I only saw bits of. I saw Mick Jagger. When Messi did the last assist that got knocked out, did you see how perfect he went? Oh, I had the placement that perfect.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah. And the goal to tie. It was like a bender that made the corner. Can't believe I watched. I watched the whole game.

[Becky Quick]

Cheese will be next.

[Squawk Pod Host / Producer (Katie Kramer)]

Coming up on Squawk, the future of the safety net. We have the man who runs Social Security and also coincidentally, the tax authority, the irs, Frank Bicignano.

[Frank Bisignano]

We don't have a funding problem, right? Like we have a get work done problem. And you know me, you know my history, right? We know how to get work done. We can do more with less, okay? But technology is a great enabler.

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[Joe Kernen]

Oh, no.

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top states for business. Get all the data and complete state by state analysis. See how your state measures up America's

[Becky Quick]

top states for business. See the full list [e-mail]

[Squawk Pod Host / Producer (Katie Kramer)]

you're listening to Squawk Pod from CNBC with Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Stand by, Joe.

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His mic.

[Robert Fishman]

Q.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

More than six and a half million families have signed up for Trump accounts, which launched July 4th. Our next guest was just named to lead the expansion of the program. Joining us now, Frank Pizignano, who also serves as commissioner of the Social Security Administration and the CEO of of the irs. You're sleeping at all, Frank?

[Frank Bisignano]

Oh, yeah. Still a few hours. I have you hours. Always up early, always ready.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What is possible in your view if you're really successful with the Trump accounts. Where could we be a year or two from now in all coverage?

[Frank Bisignano]

I think, I think, you know, it's very, very informative. Last evening I had dinner with the CEOs of tax preparers and talked through their capability to distribute this product. And so you have to think about, we have all types of distribution. We have the ability to enroll people very simply. And I think the objective is to have 70 million children under 18 to have a Trump account. I mean, it's a great vehicle. It's generationally changing. It's bringing financial literacy to youth also. You know, we all can remember understanding a little bit about the market. Well, everybody has the opportunity, the fact that it's pro family. Thousand dollars for a baby born, you know, for the next four years. So I think, I think we should have every family enrolled in a Trump account. I think that's the objective. And I think it's really capable financial planners, tax planners, right? The ability for us to distribute through banks, everybody, it's good for America, good for financial literacy, good for pro family. Landmark program for the secretary of the onboarding process is.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Is that need to be made easier? Do you need more money? Does everyone need to step up corporate America and fund?

[Frank Bisignano]

Well, you know, we have 50 companies. You know, obviously you saw what Michael Dell did and his family, and we're talking, you know, an hour a day on making that great and being the prototype for others. I think you see a lot of philanthropists who want to do this and are waiting to watch how it rolls out for Michael. It's a startup business now, if you remember, I've run startup businesses. We built Clover to turn around First Data. Right. It's a technology business really. And I think we're going to make it simple for people enroll and simple for people to watch their money grow, invest in the S and P for young children.

[Joe Kernen]

With the 50 companies that have given money with Michael Dell, with all the money he and his wife have given. How many kids do you cover versus on your left?

[Frank Bisignano]

Well, every one of these are different, right?

[Joe Kernen]

I know it's for certain kids in certain areas. For certain areas.

[Frank Bisignano]

But I think you're going to end up with, given the order of magnitude, and many of these are $250, say, you know, celebrating 250. Everybody has a different angle on it. I think this is why I'm so confident about the 70 million ultimately. And we have lots of people standing on the sidelines prepared when they actually watch this for the next few months work very, very well. And, you know, I think we're in the startup phase. I'm on, you know, day two and a half.

[Joe Kernen]

I love what it does about teaching kids about.

[Frank Bisignano]

I think it's great for financial, for

[Joe Kernen]

long term to make sure you have something there when you retire. I mean, that is something that's pretty exciting.

[Robert Fishman]

Yeah.

[Frank Bisignano]

I mean, it's investment vehicle that, you know, donations can go into contributions you go into. I'm sure we all experience at some point a niece, a nephew or grandchild that you may have given a few shares of stock to so they would learn here. America is doing it for these children.

[Becky Quick]

Frank, there's two questions. One about the recent effort. And this is. We talked to Brad about this. Actually just two weeks ago, Gwen Gwynne Shotwell gave her donation. The plan, at least as I understood it, was that that donation of shares in Space X would not just go into these funds and get turned into cash and, or get liquidated and turned into, you know, other mutual funds and the like. But the idea is that those kids who are getting those shares would ultimately keep those shares, hold those shares until they were 18 years old. There's something very attractive about that on one end. But you know where I'm going to go. Because if you look at the law as at least it was written, it seems to suggest that that is not what at least the intent of the law was. There's some potential opening for the Treasury Secretary to give guidance and the like. But it seems like the whole idea was to put people into diversified funds. It also creates some uniquely strange incentives because effectively, if you put, you know, if Warren Buffett were to put $100 billion of his shares, he could effectively park money, park those shares rather for 18 years without voting rights. I mean, there's, there's a whole bunch. So I'm curious how you're thinking about

[Frank Bisignano]

how we're thinking about. And of course, you know, there's the intent of the law, the law, and then there is always, within that law, the secretary who is my close partner in all these endeavors. Right. Right now we're working on getting the product launched and, you know, investing in the index fund for that. Right, right. That was the intent. You know how things are. Right. We're always working through details. This is, this is fun seed money for youth with high finance on top of it. So stay tuned. But if you want to go to what we. The intent is. The intent is to have them in a fund to be able to grow with the S and P. And you look to look at the 20 year growth pattern.

[Becky Quick]

But the whole effort to get a Warren Buffett or to get an Elon Musk or to get a Jensen or whatever to donate large swaths of their companies and then have those shares sit in those funds, is that, is that the long term intent? Because that was at least as our understanding of the Gwynne Shotwell contribution. What was happening.

[Frank Bisignano]

It's in process. Okay. I mean, I mean you know there's a lot of elements to this but if you want to go to the core, you're going to say what we want these children to own is index fund and see the growth of the index fund and not be single stock focus.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Right. Can you, can you imagine that there are certain people that in. I'm sure that there are that just don't like this because it's. It's called a Trump account and I mean TDS is a real, it is, it's a real thing.

[Frank Bisignano]

I report our report. I report to the president and I have synergistic roles across the government. If you think about it with irs, Trump accounts and ssa, they actually I like to say to people if Jamie Dimon was looking at a company had these, he'd have these all together so we could get the leverage and benefit.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It sounds preposterous to think that someone wouldn't want to do this for their children just because they don't want to do something associated with. But it's the way it is in the country right now. Sad to say. I mean probably half the s and P500 you might have an issue with the company would just some of the CEO would just say no, I'm not interested in doing this.

[Frank Bisignano]

Well, you know, I mean how do you overcome that? Just look at when I took Social Security I thought everybody wanted this fix. Everybody wants us to fix the operations of was it was a mess. But you learn that, you know, some people were unhappy about you fixing it because it wasn't who they wanted fixed.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And then we could get into the IRS question. Andrew has talked about this a lot.

[Becky Quick]

I'm going to go look just based on what you just said is there's also people who don't want to fix the irs, which is a lot of people including my myself often say we should have better technological systems and we all should be easier. The whole process should be better. And yet and, and there's been argument made. Studies have shown, you know, for every dollar spent you actually collect, you collect more revenue. And all of the things that you would think we should focus on given that this is revenue entitled to.

[Joe Kernen]

Here's where it gets into an issue though is customer service. Like we need it. Absolutely. To be digitized and be easier to work. People who don't understand or who are fearful of that, who can't get their phone call answered.

[Frank Bisignano]

How do you know? I, I think we've, we've, I have approached all of this as a digital first opportunity then people. And of course we say we're going to meet clients where they want to be met.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah.

[Frank Bisignano]

At IRS we had hundreds of millions more online inquiries this year than last year.

[Joe Kernen]

Wow.

[Frank Bisignano]

Hundreds of millions. Like a 60% increase because we built better technology. The beauty is, you know, people talk about modernizing, I talk about transforming. We're not modernizing. We're not going to move from one form of data center to another. We're changing the client experience. Interact with US mobile. At SSA we have over 100 million digital users. That's more digital users than JP Morgan and Chase. JP Morgan and B of A combined. Right. It's actually the largest digital financial service organization. It wasn't before.

[Becky Quick]

Would you like more funding though? Because that's always been the question.

[Frank Bisignano]

We don't have, we don't have, we don't, we don't have a funding problem. Right. Like we have a get work done problem. And you know me, you know my history, right? We know how to get work done. We can do more with less. But technology is a great enabler. It's not going to get done. And we bring in great technologists. Right. Real CIOs that actually understand how to commercially drive outcomes and business people who are driving outcomes and that combination with good career people can get that type of outcome. We did this IRS season.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Are you going to fix our looming problems with Social Security?

[Frank Bisignano]

Well, I think, I think we are fixing it. Right. Funding, probably the funding side, as you guys know. You know, I've taken on things in my career, whether at JP Morgan and the mortgage crisis, whether First Data, KKR's largest investment that was supposed to be bankrupt. It was in 07 LBO when we turned it into, into a great company through technology. Right. And so what you learned when you got to SSA is its most important database where it was called numenant. Not a phrase any human would know. So I call it now the Social Security number database. Something humans can understand. Right. Was never reconciled. So you have 330 million plus records and you've never reconciled. Well, we found a 10% error rate in it. Right. Over the past year. Toiling through it. So to me, once we finish the fixing right, it used to take 40 minutes to answer a phone. Now it's one. Then we'll get to what the reality of has to be done. But think about what a good payment error rate is. It's 0.001. And if you have a 10% core base operating challenge here and you know, it was all about eliminated fraud, waste and abuse, it wasn't necessarily that people were getting Social Security payments and they were dead. It was that there was a live Social Security number that could be used all across America. So I think as this thing will be done, we will then have a new look at what's the reality of. But yeah, any time you're going to fix a business, you got to pick the core operations first before you can determine what the profitability model.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Do you think the age of retirement is going to have to be raised at some point?

[Frank Bisignano]

I don't, you know, I'm going to fix it. I don't, I don't look it. There are a whole bunch of people who are going to opine on this. In the end, my job is to give them the best possible situation to make a set of decisions off of. And I think we're doing it really, really well.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Commissioner, thank you.

[Frank Bisignano]

Hey, pleasure to see you guys, man. I miss you.

[Becky Quick]

Nice to see you. Good to see you.

[Frank Bisignano]

Thanks.

[Squawk Pod Host / Producer (Katie Kramer)]

There's more Squawk Pod ahead. We'll be right back.

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which are America's top states for business. Get all the data and complete state by state analysis. See how your state measures up America's

[Becky Quick]

top states for business. See the full list [e-mail]

[Squawk Pod Host / Producer (Katie Kramer)]

this is Squawk Pod.

[Joe Kernen]

You're watching Squawk Box right here on cnbc. I'm Becky Quick, along with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorkin.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We're going to get Netflix numbers after the bell. Join us now with more on what investors could expect. Robert Fishman. He is Moffatt Nathan's senior analyst. We talk about the stock, Robert, and we've seen this movie before. So we were at 134. This is even before Warner Brothers. So it Started going down. Then they, I guess people thought they needed Warner Brothers. That's one of the reasons they, they got involved. So 134 down to the 120s. Now it's down at 73. 3. There was a time it was 8. Before the split it was 800 and went down, down below 200. So we've seen pullbacks. Is this more serious this time in terms of the remaining number one? We thought they won the streaming wars. And would people say that now that they are the unequivocal winner?

[Robert Fishman]

Well, I think it's clear that Netflix has won the streaming wars in terms of the subscription wars. You know, we've baited over the many years whether streaming is actually a good business. Michael Nathanson, who, you know, my colleague, and, and we've determined that streaming for Netflix is really a good business. The question I think investors have from here is how much growth is going to continue. And there's a lot of focus on the engagement report that's also going to be coming out later today. And there's a lot of worry around how they can continue to grow engagement going forward. So I think the narrative around Netflix has really shifted and now the question is how much more growth is to come.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

They look like they're doing things that did indicate that they're worried about, about the model in terms of live sports or offering a bundle of other streaming services for engagement. And I've complained you're not getting engagement because you have no good content right now. You've totally lost it. And you've got, and this is just me, I guess, but gratuitous woke content across the board, which you're losing half the country on a lot of that stuff. But do they have any idea how to bring back something like, I mean, I go to Apple, I go to even Warner, bro. I see Slow Horse, there is hbo. There's quality programming. It's not on Netflix.

[Robert Fishman]

I think Netflix is very much aware of the quality and continues to lean in on quality content. It's something that they're very focused about building. You mentioned sports. We've been talking about Netflix continuing to ramp up on their sports investment and we would expect that to continue. More NFL games are coming, you know, this upcoming season. So there's a lot that we think Netflix can and should do. You mentioned, you know, broadening out beyond just the core business, where we're expecting to hear some update around whether or not that company is willing to, to expand beyond just that core service and maybe bring in some bundling and use the power that they have, which is that global streaming scale, how can they use that in a different way? By bringing in some, some bundling or even launching a fast channel and competing head to head with some of the other free engagement that's out there with YouTube.

[Becky Quick]

Would you want to see that or do you think that would ultimately undermine the value proposition of Netflix itself? I mean we are in this. You're right. There's all these free channels that, that are popping up and having a lot of success. They're having to get into sports. Meaning what? You think they should be more into games, for example, like where would you go if you were really trying to grow the business? So I think we would long term, not short term. That's sort of the hard part.

[Robert Fishman]

Correct. So in terms of growing that, that overall and using the power that they have, I would love to see them enter the free ad supported business. I think that's incremental and, and can help accelerate the advertising growth. You know, sitting here today, they're in the early innings of this advertising story. So we expect them to go from the 3 billion this year up to over 9 billion by 2030. Advertising is just going to help accelerate this monetization story because people, investors are worried about how quickly revenue can continue to grow and can margins continue to grow with that by investing, continue to invest in the content, spend sports, clearly expensive content, but at the same time that's how you drive this overall flywheel.

[Becky Quick]

It probably can't happen for about three years for tax reasons and other things. But would you like to see Netflix buy NBC Universal if they could?

[Robert Fishman]

I would love to see Netflix explore how to get just Universal and theme parks within NBC Universal. I don't think Netflix has any interest in getting into the linear business again.

[Becky Quick]

But don't you think you'd need that programming, meaning the sports that's on NBC and everything else to make that work or no?

[Robert Fishman]

I think if they got the ability to get the sports rights out of it without owning and controlling the linear assets, that would be a way to structure it. But that becomes a lot more turnaround.

[Joe Kernen]

I don't imagine that happening though.

[Robert Fishman]

That would be tough.

[Joe Kernen]

I'd like unicorns to fly me around back and forth.

[Becky Quick]

I don't know what you think is going to happen with all these state ages on the Paramount deal, but if Warner Brothers were to somehow come back up and be available, do you think that Netflix should buy them?

[Robert Fishman]

Paramount, you said?

[Becky Quick]

Not Paramount, Warner Brothers.

[Robert Fishman]

I think Netflix would very much be interested in acquiring studio and IP I think that's why they were interested in the Warner Brothers deal.

[Becky Quick]

Clearly want them to buy Sony.

[Robert Fishman]

I mean, I don't think they're. Sony is available for sale right now.

[Becky Quick]

I don't think so either. I'm just going through the permutations of what are the things that out there that you think could actually change this dynamic, if you think this dynamic needs changing?

[Robert Fishman]

Well, I think to the point Netflix still has a lot of opportunity to grow organically. And that's why what we're looking for later today on the earnings is what other businesses are they looking to enter into by using that global scale in a different way? Can they enter into the whole channels business, streaming channels business, and start to sell different types of subscription services around the world? Bringing Peacock, which is just in the US can they bring that around the world and start to monetize their scale in a completely different way?

[Joe Kernen]

Robert, the street freaked out when Netflix got involved with the deal that they were going to go to go after Warner Brothers before. I don't know if they thought it was overpaying or if it was because the street said, wait a second, they think they need something else to do. Do you basically not want to hear them saying that they're going after other places, that you'd rather have them focus on what they're doing internally?

[Robert Fishman]

Well, I think it's incumbent upon them to always explore what's out there. I think the Warner Brothers deal was a unique deal back to that point, and the company separated their assets so that it was attractive for Netflix to just look at that studio and streaming asset at the same.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So 300 billion. And I'm not comparing Comcast and, you know, getting rid of NBC. That's $80 billion. I mean, is Netflix worth four times what Comcast is worth right now?

[Robert Fishman]

Well, we can get into Comcast. You know, Craig, don't even get into.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah, you don't need to get into that. But I'm just saying it's still worth. It's still got a really high market cap. If you don't think they're going to be able to find growth opportunity or do you think it's a great buy here?

[Robert Fishman]

We do think it's a good buy here. Great buy. And I think the attractiveness of the stock position today is this question whether or not the growth is sustainable. We see it as very sustainable. We think it is a good business. Ultimately coming back to that. And we see, you know, 20% plus earnings growth. And at this price, it's a very attractive entry point.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You watch tv? I do. It's just Squawk box or only squawk box.

[Becky Quick]

God bless.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What are you watching? Anything on Netflix? Got anything for me on Netflix? Anything?

[Robert Fishman]

I'm still playing catch up with my young kids. So we're watching Diplomat right now.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Good show.

[Becky Quick]

Good show. Deborah Kahn, she wrote it. It's a great show.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah. Okay. Where's Widow Bay? That's kind of okay. Is that Netflix?

[Becky Quick]

That's Apple.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

See, Even when I only say kind of good. Ok. Thank you.

[Squawk Pod Host / Producer (Katie Kramer)]

And that is Squawk Pod for today. Thanks for listening as always. Squawkbox is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Tune in weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 Eastern to get the smartest takes and analysis from our TV show right into your ears. Please follow Squawk Pod wherever you get your podcasts. Have a great day. We'll meet you right back here tomorrow.

[Donald Trump (quoted)]

All right, clear.

[Becky Quick]

Thanks guys.

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