Goldman Sachs CEO David Solomon & Pershing Square’s Bill Ackman 10/21/25

Summary

---

Squawk Pod — Goldman Sachs CEO David Solomon & Pershing Square’s Bill Ackman

Date: October 21, 2025
Podcast: Squawk Pod (CNBC)
Hosts: Joe Kernen, Becky Quick, Andrew Ross Sorkin
Guests: David Solomon (Goldman Sachs CEO), Bill Ackman (Pershing Square CEO)

---

Episode Overview

This episode features headline interviews with two major financial leaders: David Solomon, Chairman & CEO of Goldman Sachs, and Bill Ackman, CEO of Pershing Square. The conversation spans alternative investments, private credit markets, economic policy, and the high-stakes New York mayoral race—delivering exclusive perspectives on the financial markets, AI, and the political economy.

---

Key Segments & Timestamps

• [12:10] Goldman Sachs CEO David Solomon in studio: Insights on alternative investments, private credit, AI, and capital markets.
• [34:36] Pershing Square’s Bill Ackman: Deep dive on the upcoming New York mayoral election, urban policy, and the business climate.
• Ongoing: Hosts’ commentary on tech, markets, Apple, China, and more.

---

David Solomon: Alternative Assets, Private Credit, and the Economy

[12:10–32:45]

State of Alternative Investments

• Goldman Sachs is hosting its 24th Annual Alternative Summit, featuring top leaders and thinkers ([12:10]).

• Huge growth in alternative assets—private equity, private credit, infrastructure, real estate—now over $500 billion under Goldman management ([13:09]).

• Solomon emphasizes the “early innings” of private capital formation in the US, contrasting US risk-taking and retail investment with Europe ([13:09]).

  "The growth of private capital formation continues. And, candidly, I still think we're in the early innings… I think it's very constructive for markets."
  —David Solomon [13:09]

Retail Investors and Access to Alternatives

• Alternatives expanding beyond wealthy investors; Solomon supports some access for average retirement savers with long horizons, but urges caution over liquidity needs ([14:54]).
• Advises a 20–25% alternatives allocation for long-term retirement accounts ([14:54]).
• Warns of the need for education and regulation as more retail investors access these products ([15:50]).

Transparency, Valuation, and Guardrails

• Sorkin raises concerns about transparency and valuation: private market assets in 401ks might lack the rigorous disclosure of the public markets ([16:07]).

• Solomon acknowledges challenges in marking private assets, advocating for prudent, market-based valuations, especially when liquidity is offered ([16:53]).

  "I think generally speaking it's prudent to mark things for what they're worth and where they can be sold. There are others who would disagree strongly."
  —David Solomon [18:46]

Systemic Risks & Private Credit

• Discussion on recent regional bank troubles; Solomon downplays fears of a systemic crisis despite some idiosyncratic events ([21:34], [21:52]).
• Stresses the interconnectedness of regulated and unregulated credit markets: “It’s one system. It’s all interconnected.” ([23:32])
• Acknowledges pressure to deploy credit and some risk from late cycle behavior, but does not see a bubble or broad crisis ([23:43], [25:28]).

Quarterly vs. Semi-Annual Reporting

• On public company reporting, Solomon is open to six-month reporting instead of quarterly, arguing this supports longer-term strategy without significant loss of transparency ([20:10]).

AI, Technology, and Goldman Sachs

• AI is driving productivity at Goldman. New initiative "One Goldman Sachs 3.0" seeks to reimagine firm processes and increase efficiency with automation ([26:51]).

• Solomon is optimistic about AI’s impact but sees workforce shifts and “a possibility that there's a little bit more volatility or ... an unsettled transition" ([28:53], [29:10]).

• On acquisitions: highlights recent Industry Ventures deal to expand early-stage VC presence; sees asset and wealth management as avenue for further growth ([30:12]).

  "I can't find a CEO that… is not focused on how they can reimagine and automate processes in their business to create operating efficiency and productivity. And that’s a really good thing for economic growth."
  —David Solomon [28:19]

Long-Term Vision for Goldman Sachs

• Five-year outlook: Focused on two engines—banking/markets and asset/wealth management ([31:41]). Sees substantial runway for growth.

---

Bill Ackman: New York Mayoral Race, Economic Policy, and the National Stakes

[34:36–56:51]

New York Election Dynamics

• Ackman is vocal on social media, pushing for Curtis Sliwa to exit the mayoral contest to avoid splitting the vote against Zoran Mondami ([34:48], [35:23]).
• Explains the polling math: "If Sliwa voters vote for Andrew, Andrew wins. The key is Sliwa has to be out of the race." ([35:23])
• Advocates for voter mobilization, calling this "the most important New York City election we've had in 100 years" ([33:02], [44:50]).

Critique of Leading Candidate Zoran Mondami

• Ackman critiques Mondami’s policies on affordability and economics:

  • Blames high rent and utilities on anti-development regulations and over-stringent green policies ([37:41]).
  • Argues that Mondami is correct to cite affordability problems, but that "his policies are wrong ... his policies are going to explain why" ([39:07]).

• Cautions about the Democratic Socialists’ platform and potential leadership ([36:55], [37:09], [42:23]).

• Public safety and policing: Warns about “hostile relationship with the police” and notes police retirements already in anticipation ([39:41]).

  "[Mondami is] accurate in identifying the problems with the city, but his policies are going to explain why."
  —Bill Ackman [39:07]

Business and Policy Consequences

• Taxes: Higher city taxes could drive out high earners; "1% of New Yorkers pay 40% of the taxes in the city… they can take their tax revenues elsewhere" ([41:07]).
• Corporate taxes: Warns businesses may relocate if burden rises ([41:46]).
• Comparisons to Miami, Chicago: Hedge funds and high-income individuals increasingly mobile thanks to remote work ([47:02]).

National Political Implications

• Sees New York’s mayoral outcome as a referendum on the Democratic Party’s trajectory:

  “If Mondami is successful in New York, it’s going to inspire other DSA candidates at the state legislature in other states around the country. … If we destroy New York, it will be a sacrificial lamb to out the current state of the Democratic Party.”
  —Bill Ackman [42:48–43:10]

• Ackman claims a Mondami win would damage the city’s economic future and provide negative national symbolism ([44:00–44:39]).

Ackman’s Economic Outlook

• Overall US economic outlook: Ackman is positive on pro-business policies, infrastructure, AI investment, tax reform, declining rates ([49:17]).

• Praises President Trump’s business policies and negotiating skills, including on China ([50:44], [51:41]).

• Geopolitical risks, especially in the Middle East, are seen as receding ([51:25]).

  "We have the most pro business president we've had in a very long time… a lot of reasons to be optimistic about [the US economy]."
  —Bill Ackman [49:17], [50:44]

Industrial Policy and AI

• Ackman supports efforts to strengthen US industry against foreign dominance, but is wary of excessive government intervention or “picking winners and losers” ([53:00], [54:06]).
• Sees AI’s “lollapalooza Effect” as world-changing, comparable to the railroad and fiber build-outs ([54:33]).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Solomon on market cycles:

  “One thing I know for sure is when we do have an economic slowdown, and we will, and we do have a recession ... we will go through a credit cycle and you certainly will see losses and pressure on those that lend and provide credit.”
  —David Solomon [10:15], [21:49]

• Hosts’ banter on Apple and consumer tech:

  "It's amazing how many times its demise has been greatly exaggerated... But who doesn't? I mean, you got a 17 already."
  —Joe Kernen [04:10]

• Ackman’s voter rallying cry:

  "All you need to do is get out of bed in the morning, okay? And show up at the poll. Vote, vote for safety in the city. Vote for sanity."
  —Bill Ackman [33:02], [44:50]

• Ackman on NYC’s fiscal reliance on high-earners:

  "1% of New Yorkers pay 40% of the taxes in the city... if you attack that 1%, those are the most mobile 1% of New Yorkers and they can take their tax revenues elsewhere."
  —Bill Ackman [41:07]

• Closing thought on the stakes for the Democratic Party:

  "If we destroy New York, it will be a sacrificial lamb to out the current state of the Democratic Party and where the geographic center is."
  —Bill Ackman [43:10]

---

Episode Tone & Takeaways

• The tone is fast-paced, policy-heavy, and at times urgent—especially around the New York mayoral race and national implications.
• Solomon is measured, analytical; Ackman is passionate, direct, at times alarmist about NYC’s direction.
• Throughout, Squawk Box’s signature banter softens deeply technical and political discussions.

---

Summary Table of Key Segments

| Time | Topic | Key Discussion / Quote | |-----------|--------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------| | 12:10 | Solomon on Alternatives/Private Credit| “Still…early innings of private capital formation…” | | 16:07 | Transparency & Marking Practices | “Prudent to mark things for what they’re worth…” | | 21:49 | Economic Cycles & Credit Risk | “We will go through a credit cycle …” | | 26:51 | AI at Goldman Sachs | “Reimagine these processes entirely…” | | 34:48 | Ackman on NYC Election | “Most important election in 100 years…” | | 41:07 | Taxes and NYC’s Wealthy | “1% pay 40% of taxes … can take them elsewhere”| | 44:50 | Mobilizing Voters | “Show up at the poll. Vote for safety…” | | 49:17 | Ackman on US Economy | “A lot of reasons to be optimistic…” |

---

For listeners interested in:

• The evolution and risk of private credit and alternatives
• How financial leaders view AI in practice
• The intersection of business, politics, and urban policy
  This episode delivers punchy, timely, and direct insights straight from the US’s financial and political front lines.

Transcript

[Schwab Announcer]

Trading at Schwab is powered by Ameritrade, giving you even more specialized support than ever before, like access to the trade desk. Our team of passionate traders ready to tackle anything from the most complex trading questions to a simple strategy. Gut check. Need assistance? No problem. Get 24. 7 professional answers and live help and access support by phone, email and in platform chat. That's how Schwab is here for you to help you trade brilliantly. Learn [e-mail] trading and now a next.

[AT&T Announcer]

Level moment from ATT Business. Say you've sent out a gigantic shipment of pillows and they need to be there in time for International Sleep day. You've got AT and T5G so you're fully confident, but the vendor isn't responding. And International Sleep Day is tomorrow. Luckily, AT&T 5G lets you deal with any issues with ease. So the pillows will get delivered and everyone can sleep soundly, especially you. ATT 5G requires a compatible plan and device. Coverage not available everywhere. Learn [e-mail] 5G Network.

[Joe Kernan]

Bring in show music, please.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

This is Squawk Pod and I'm CNBC producer Cameron Costa. On today's episode, Goldman Sachs CEO David Solomon in his first interview on set in years.

[David Solomon]

It's great to be in the studio. It's been a while since I've been in the studio.

[Becky Quick]

It's good to be here to have you here.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The markets, alternative investments, the economy, and the hot topic du jour, private credit.

[David Solomon]

We've had three events that on the face seem to be three idiosyncratic events.

[Joe Kernen]

Right.

[David Solomon]

You know, three idiosyncratic events does not make, you know, a trend or a systemic issue by any stretch.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And we're zeroing in on New York City politics. Two weeks out from the mayoral election, billionaire hedge funder and New Yorker Bill Ackman.

[Joe Kernan]

If Sliwa voters vote for Andrew, Andrew wins. The key is Sliwa has to be out of the race.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What awaits New York on November 4th and, of course, November 5th.

You don't think the National Guard is coming here the day after the election? I do.

The policies on the ballot and Ackman's concerns about the Mondani movement.

[Joe Kernan]

Where is Mondani? Right. He's right that we have an affordability issue here.

[Joe Kernen]

Okay.

[Joe Kernan]

Why do we have an affordability issue in New York? Rent is too high. Why is that? Right? The answer is because of policies that he wants to make worse.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Plus, Apple shares hit a record high and a spat between the PayPal mafia. It's Tuesday October 21, 2025.

[Joe Kernen]

You're not a boomer, are you? You're not a boomer.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I'm not a boomer.

[Joe Kernen]

Do you know, Becky, you're not a boomer.

[Becky Quick]

No.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

No.

[Joe Kernen]

Anyone know the song? Just walk away, Renee.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

A very full squawk pod with our dynamic trio begins right now.

Stand Becky by in three, two, one.

[Joe Kernan]

Fewer, please.

[Becky Quick]

Good morning everybody. Welcome to Squawk Box right here on cnbc. We're live from the NASDAQ market site in Times Square. I'm Becky Quick along with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorkin. A strong day of gains on Monday for all of the major averages. In fact, at this point, all three of those averages less than 1% from their all time highs. You also had the Russell 2000 that was up sharply yesterday. It is now less than 2% from its all time high. And and then gold, which was at another all time high yesterday. This morning, pulling back by just under 2%. $4277 an ounce. You still have to think about that, how high we're getting on that dollar price. It was very recently that we crossed 4000 and you know, now you're headed towards 45, 2500 if you listen to a lot of the analysts, maybe even 5,000 depending on who you're talking to on this.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Meantime, shares of Apple, they can't be held down. The stock rising nearly 4% yesterday to a record close above $262 a share. It's a new report showing that iPhone 17 sales off to a strong start in the US and China. Wells Fargo hiking its price Target now to $290 a share. And this was Apple's new, or first, I should say new high of the year. Shares are up about 5% in 2025. They've lagged some of the other Magnificent Seven names like Nvidia, of course, and Alphabet and Metta. But another move for Apple. This company is, you know, it works.

[Joe Kernen]

Yeah, it's a laggard in AI too. So anyone you know thinks it's all AI and all a bubble. Apple plus Apple. It's just amazing that how many times the its demise has been greatly exaggerated. Especially this year too. But who doesn't? I mean, you got a 17 already.

[Becky Quick]

Yep.

[Joe Kernen]

Everybody just loves the Apple phone and the ecosystem.

[Becky Quick]

Bought another iPad yesterday. I must have like seven.

[Joe Kernen]

I need a new iPad. My thing is all cracked and shattered. I don't know how that I think it's like if it doesn't work and you hit it, it has a tendency to break that.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You do well, if you throw it across the room.

[Joe Kernen]

Throw it across the room. But I, I have hit it a few times because there's times that, yeah.

[Becky Quick]

Better it than somebody.

[Joe Kernen]

But it's like, it was like the first app, the iPad that came out. How long ago is that? I mean, it's like the first iPad that came out. Yeah, it's old or something.

[Joe Kernan]

It's really.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Oh, you have a very old iPad.

[Joe Kernen]

Really?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Okay.

[Becky Quick]

You'll be like, how much faster they are now.

[Joe Kernen]

Really?

[Joe Kernan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Shocking.

[Joe Kernen]

I don't know if I'm going to get a new one.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

President Trump and Australia's prime minister signing a critical minerals and rare earths agreement that the Australian leader said includes a project that planned, that planned to be worth about $8 billion. The US looking to diversify its rare earth supply away from market leader China. A copy of that agreement released by the US And Australian government said that each would invest billion dollars over the next six months in the mining and processing projects. They're also going to be setting a price floor for critical minerals.

[Becky Quick]

This is really important as we head into this China trade talks. It does give President Trump something that kind of bolsters his position when you're talking about rare earths, definitely and what this means.

[Joe Kernen]

Walking in, he said something yesterday like within a year, we're going to have so many, we have so many rare earth metals, they're not going to be referred to as rare anymore.

[Becky Quick]

It may very likely take longer. But having this partnership, having other places to go, anytime you start with export controls, it makes other countries look for ways that they can find these things without you. And that's what's happened here.

[Joe Kernen]

And Jamison Greer, the US Trade representative, calling out China for what he said was retaliation against companies investing in critical industries, US Industries like shipbuilding. In a statement, Jameson Greer said recent Chinese actions were part of a broader pattern of economic coercion. Last week, the country sanctioned American units of a South Korean shipping giant over US Investment plans. And earlier in the day, President Trump reiterated a threat to impose higher tariffs on China if the countries can't reach a deal trade deal by November 1st. Mr. Trump also suggested that China's stance towards Taiwan expects that to come up at an expected meeting with China's president. And that's going to be next week. So we'll know, we'll know whether it's on and whether, whether it happens.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Two early PayPal employees who have gone on to have influential careers in tech and politics, sparring over the issue of AI. The fight began last week when one of the co founders of Anthropic published an essay which he laid out his feelings about more powerful AI systems. And responding to that was David sacks, a former PayPal employee, now President Trump's crypto and AI czar. Sachs, criticizing that essay online, accused Anthropic of being, in his words, principally responsible for the state regulatory frenzy that is damaging the startup economy. Then on X yesterday, LinkedIn's co founder and prominent Democratic donor Reid Hoffman called Anthropic one of the good guys while also revealing his firm Greylock has invested in that company. Sachs responded, the leading funder of the of lawfare and dirty tricks against Trump wants you to know that Anthropic is one of the good guys. Thanks for clarifying that. All we needed to know, Hoffman came back saying shows you didn't read the post. Not shocked when you were ready to have a professional conversation about AI's impact on America. I'm here to chat. For his part, Zach said he had read Hoffman's post, accused Anthropic of having an agenda to backdoor woke AI. So the debate continues and it's happening online. Yeah, pretty intense.

[Joe Kernen]

You don't have to ask me where I stand.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Obviously I, I don't actually. I didn't and didn't.

[Joe Kernen]

So I won't offer up anything. We do have Bill Ackman coming up, do we not?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We do.

[Joe Kernen]

We do have David Solomon coming up.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yes.

[Joe Kernen]

So this needs to be. That needs to be mentioned because of the headline. It's just so good. Okay.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And I'm just walk away beret.

[Joe Kernen]

And I'll tell you why. Because you probably because you're not a boomer. Are you? You're not a boomer.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

No, I'm not a boomer.

[Joe Kernen]

Do you know Becky, you're not a boomer?

[Joe Kernan]

No.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

No.

[Joe Kernen]

Anyone know the song Just Walk Away, Renee? The Four Tops did it after the left banked it. But that's what this means. See, that doesn't.

[Becky Quick]

Oh, that didn't even click with it.

[Joe Kernen]

That's what I mean. That's how I guess the boom. You know, the Post caters to boomers like, like, like me. But just walk away, Renee. I won't take pulling you back. Okay. Major, major song in the 60s in 1966 by a band called the Left bank who just to end on a positive note, all four members are dead.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Okay, folks, we will be talking to Bill Ackman. They're really cute.

[Joe Kernen]

They look like the Beatles.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

About whether what's going to happen in New York City. Yeah, we're talking to Ackman mayor.

[Joe Kernen]

I'm promoing.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We're very. By the way, the context of that.

[Becky Quick]

Conversation is that even allies are telling Curtis no.

[Joe Kernen]

The post in an op ed says drop out cur.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And by the way, even if he does, it's still. The math is still unclear.

[Becky Quick]

And by the way, when Adams dropped out, he did not endorse Cuomo.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Right.

[Joe Kernan]

So.

[Joe Kernen]

Right. Yeah, he might. He might. He's close.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, we'll see.

[Joe Kernen]

What's he want when Hakeem Jeffries endorses Mom. Don't.

[Joe Kernan]

Be next.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Next on Squawk Pod, Goldman Sachs CEO David Solomon. Two regional banks rattled investors last week, sparking fears of trouble in the private credit markets. Solomon shares his view on private credit lending and the health of our financial ecosystem.

[David Solomon]

One thing I know for sure is when we do have an economic slowdown, and we will, and we do have a recession, you know, we will go through a credit cycle and you certainly will see losses and pressure on those that lend and provide credit.

[Schwab Announcer]

Trading at Schwab is powered by Ameritrade, giving you even more specialized support than ever before, like access to the trade desk. Our team of passionate traders ready to tackle anything from the most complex trading questions to a simple strategy. Gut check. Need assistance? No problem. Get 24. 7 professional answers and live help and access support by phone, email and in platform chat. That's how Schwab is here for you to help you trade brilliantly. Learn [e-mail] trading hanaday presents.

[Joe Kernan]

In the red corner, the undisputed, undefeated Weed Whacker guy, champion of hurling grass and pollen everywhere.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And in the blue corner, the challenger.

[Joe Kernan]

Extra strength Hataday eye drops that work.

[Joe Kernen]

All day to prevent the release of.

[Joe Kernan]

Histamines that cause itchy allergy eyes. And the winner by knockout is Pataday Pataday.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Bring it on.

[AT&T Announcer]

And now, a next level moment from ATT Business. Say you've sent out a gigantic shipment of pillows and they need to be there in time for International Sleep day. You've got AT and T5G so you're fully confident, but the vendor isn't responding. And International Sleep Day is tomorrow. Luckily, AT&T 5G lets you deal with any issues with ease. So the pillows will get delivered and everyone can sleep soundly, especially you. AT&T 5G requires a compatible plan and device. Coverage not available everywhere. Learn [e-mail] 5G Network.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

This is Squawk Pod with Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Here's Becky.

[Becky Quick]

Goldman Sachs is kicking off its 24th annual Alternative Summit today. Dignitaries from a wide range of industries will headline sessions at the event, including former Secretary of Defense General Lloyd Austin, former Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, former UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, Yale University professor of Psychology Laurie Santos, and many other names. For more on that summit and the capital markets and much more, we want to bring in David Solomon. He, of course, is the Chairman and CEO of Goldman Sachs. And we should mention that David is also a member of CNBC CEO Council. David, it's great to see you. Thanks for, thank you.

[David Solomon]

Thank you for having me. It's great to be in the studio. It's been a while since I've been in the studio.

[Becky Quick]

It's good to be nice to have you here. Alternative assets, you've been doing this for 24 years for this, but now alternative assets are everywhere. There's a lot of talk of this because of what the Trump administration, administration has done with saying that it's going to be available for people's 401ks. What's, what's happened? What's the evolution? What do you see right now when it comes to alternative assets?

[David Solomon]

Sure. And first, thank you for highlighting the summit. We're excited about it. We've been running for a long time. We have about 450 LPs that are here. We obviously have a very scaled platform. We manage or supervise over $500 billion of vaults across private equity, private credit, infrastructure and real estate. And so we've been doing this, as you said, we've been in the business for more than, for more than 30 years. But the growth of private capital formation continues. And you know, candidly, I still think we're in the early innings of private capital formation. When you look at the scale of it, I think it's, it's very constructive for markets. Obviously, some of the private capital formation is also a response to the regulatory structure, particularly when you look at, at private lending and private credit. And some of that, in my opinion, is going to get rebalanced out, you know, in the coming years. But it's important. And I think one of the strengths of the U.S. one of the strengths of the U.S. economy is that we have the most robust capital markets and capital formation system in the world. I was just in Europe last week and, you know, it's a completely different ecosystem. You don't have the risk taking, you don't have the participation of retail investors and the stock market broadly. And so the private capital formation ecosystem here is a Very powerful driving force for the strength of the US Economy and something we should all support.

[Becky Quick]

Those alternative investments have historically been for wealthier investors. And there's the one take on it that, hey, everybody should be able to get access to this. The reason it's been a little more limited to individual investors is that sometimes these are pretty illiquid investments. And what does that mean for somebody who doesn't have a lot of liquidity or other things to fall back on? What do you say to people? How much should you have before you get invested in some of these things? What should you, what are some of the, the wariness, some of the concerns people should have?

[David Solomon]

Well, we certainly let investors speculate in lots of things with a lot of latitude, more so that, that, you know, I think with a long term view, you know, certainly can be, you know, riskier than a, you know, a diversified portfolio that includes some alternatives. I think like everything else, there's time and place. You know, time and place matters. And you know, I think about it appropriately. I have, I have children that are, you know, in their 30s. And I think about the retirement accounts, you know, an allocation of 20 or 25% in the retirement accounts where they're really putting money away for 30 years and they don't need that liquidity. You know, I think that makes a lot of sense for somebody that's working hard is saving, is building a retirement. I think, I think that makes a lot of sense. And so we are going to see more access to these products in a variety of different channels that allow investors to participate more. Whenever we do things like that, you know, there are people that push too far or there are practices that develop and those are things that should be watched and, you know, need to be managed appropriately.

[Joe Kernen]

I'm thinking your kids have a really good future for somebody.

[David Solomon]

I'm very.

[Joe Kernen]

You're saying generic 30 year old children. You're not talking about David Solomon.

[David Solomon]

I'm very proud of my kids. They are, they are working away, but I think they're somehow they're going to be. They popped out and they're doing great.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

David, one of the things that I think about though is the private assets. The whole private world obviously uses sort of a different disclosure and transparency policy than public assets. And we're putting effectively those private assets in the public markets in this sort of unique way. And whether you think there should be either, I don't know, either guardrails or different sort of auditing techniques or other things. I mean, one of the things about the nav of all of these funds is to a large degree they are being maintained or decided by the fund managers. And I wonder in a public, once you get into a public market space, whether they really need to be provided ultimately by some kind of third party or even fourth party that are somehow independently verified as we sort of get into a different place with all of this.

[David Solomon]

Well, I think, you know, I think you're raising, you're raising a couple of things because, you know, price. Private companies, Private companies do have different reporting standards, although there are lots of private companies at scale that report the same way they would report, you know, if they were a public company. That's different from valuation metrics against private investments and how private investments are valued and how those marks are moved over time. So I do think as there's more exposure of these products to broader markets, this is something that will get discussed and debated. And I think it's an appropriate, appropriate thing to think about. You know, one of the reasons why I think that the activity, if we look at private equity in particular, that the activity or the monetization of the broad cut of private equity assets has been slower is because in 2020 and 2021, a lot of those assets were marked up.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Right.

[David Solomon]

The values actually declined below the marks, and the marks didn't necessarily follow. We've now been through a period of a few years where those businesses have been growing back into the market. So that is, that is something to think.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But the industry would say that's a bug, not a, that's a feature, not a bug. Right? That the idea that you can actually hold those assets at a marginally different valuation than the public markets, that you're not marking it to market all the time, is actually a feature of, of that piece of it. I'm not arguing that's the case. I'm saying that's what they would tell you.

[David Solomon]

I think like, I think like most.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Things, you're a market kind of guy.

[David Solomon]

Think like, well, we've been a mark to market firm in a lot of ways for a long time. I think it depends on the context. So that's fine. If you're, you're in something that's truly a liquid, right? Okay. And you don't have any liquidity option for years and years and years. If you are offering some sort of liquidity, you know, a percentage of liquidity, whether it's on a quarter basis or an annual basis or something like that, then the actual value that's delivered when people look for liquidity matters. And then the marks become very important. So I, you know, I think generally speaking it's prudent to mark things for what they're worth and where they can be sold. There are others that would disagree strongly.

[Joe Kernen]

Guaranteed of doing well. I just for the heck of a went on and said as Harvard dug itself out of its illiquidity p E mess that its endowment got into it.

[David Solomon]

You know, there was no bias in that prompt to the, to the, to the. To the agent was there.

[Joe Kernen]

It didn't go like this. It came up with a no immediately that Harvard has not yet. Doug. And this is how long, how far back does that go?

[Becky Quick]

It was pre financial.

[Joe Kernen]

Yeah, just before the financial crisis. And they're still got, I don't know, 40, way too much and still can't get out.

[David Solomon]

There's no, there's no question the, the, you know, the ability to monetize these investments over the last five years has been slow, but that's been a choice on the part of the managers and that's reflective of the incentive system that basically they have a long dated option to keep compounding the value.

[Joe Kernen]

Harvard can't do it. Should individual investors be expected to.

[David Solomon]

I think there's, I think there's a time and place. You know, I think there's a time and place for everything. But I think when you look at these products you have to think carefully about time horizons, liquidity and you really have to understand but we certainly allow individual investors to invest in lots of things and that carry the. Carry a greater degree of risk with if you're not factoring in liquidity, more.

[Becky Quick]

And more of these assets not being taken public public. Yes, it does raise the question of how do you get in on this. Do you agree with the Trump administration's push to say we shouldn't be reporting quarterly like every six months instead.

[David Solomon]

So I've been thinking a lot about this. I mean I've been thinking a lot about this and I, I'd say first of all, I think there's an argument, a good constructive argument that to have companies, public companies reporting every six months in a full scale reporting parameter would work well, there's a lot of work that goes into quarterly earnings. I know the arguments for transparency in the quarterly transparency. But six months is a very short period of time and it allows companies, you know, to focus on those two releases and spend more time, you know, really focus on strategy and business. If there was, you know, a shift to that policy, a lot of companies, including Goldman Sachs might still report on a four quarter basis or we might report two quarters where we really report, you know, differently. A little light. We give information, but not to the same scale. But I think the reasonable arguments, companies should be focused on long term performance. It's important for investors to have transparency. But you know, I don't think there's a lot of difference between transparency twice a year and transparency every quarter.

[Becky Quick]

Let's, let's shift and talk a little bit about some of the concerns we've heard recently with, with private credit. It's certainly been a big issue with some of the regional banks. Zion's Bancorp was up today after reports reporting yesterday and it didn't look like there was additional problems there. But you know these markets a lot better than most people do. Do you have concerns about what's taken place there, about the standards for, for some of these credits, about the potential for fraud?

[David Solomon]

Well, it's interesting, you're talking about regional banks and so you said private credit. Regional banks are lending as they do. That's their, that's their business. I think that it is interesting that we've had three events that on the face seem to be three idiosyncratic events.

[Joe Kernen]

Right.

[David Solomon]

And you know, three idiosyncratic events does not make, you know, a trend or a systemic issue by any stretch. I do think it's an appropriate time for people that are significant players in credit markets, given we haven't had a credit cycle for a very, very long time to be looking at their portfolios, thinking about their risk management practices. And look at the end of the day, credit is about underwriting standards, diligence process. You know, it's a very, very deep process oriented investment practice. And you know, one thing I know for sure is when we do have an economic slowdown, and we will someday have an economic slowdown, when we do and we do have a recession, you know, we will go through a credit cycle and you certainly will see, you know, losses and pressure on those that lend and provide credit. We've just gone through a very long period of time. We have historically very, very tight credit spreads. And I think it's probably a time, you know, to watch carefully. But I don't see things at the moment that lead me to say there's something broader going on and without economic pressure, it's hard to see a real credit cycle. Although I guarantee things will pop up just as these things.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We were talking to Rob Kaplan who now works for you again yesterday. One of the things that I think is up for grabs. I don't know if anyone knows the answer yet is the idea that so much of the credit market has now moved off balance sheet from the banks and is in the private credit space, has that effectively de. Risked the entire system or is it as risky because there are these liquidity lines between these things because there is leverage that's oftentimes offered by the banking system into the funds? What do you think?

[David Solomon]

Well, I mean, a couple of comments. You know, first, one of the things I think is very important sometimes I've heard people talk about the regulatory system, the unregulated system. It's one system. It's all interconnected. It's.

[Becky Quick]

It's one system meaning a problem anywhere. It's a problem.

[David Solomon]

A problem anywhere has an impact on the whole system. I think one of the things is we live in a world of remembering what's in the rearview mirror. So we remember, you know, 17 years ago, and that doesn't mean every time we have a credit cycle we have economic pressure, that you're going to see something systemic in markets. And I think that's a very, you know, very important, important point. People are talking, Andrew, to your point, a lot about, you know, lending that goes to support the deployment of private credit. And you have to remember that a lot of that lending is securitized lending. You know, I've seen some articles recently that said the people that are doing that lending don't really understand what they're lending to. That is not true. These facilities allow them to underwrite and pick credit by credit that are put into the facilities. These are secured facilities, generally speaking. And so, you know, a lot of this is process collateral selection. And I think most of the practices in the industry are good practices. That doesn't mean that there can't be, you know, people that pop up, don't. There will always be, always be.

[Joe Kernen]

You're 100% right, say, oh, we know we got it this time. Underwriting standards across, there's always going to be people that are going to cut some corners to try and take business market share.

[David Solomon]

One of the things that's happening is the flows, you know, into these products have been significant. And so the people that have taken those flows feel pressure to deploy. And that's when you start to, when credit spreads are tight, you get late cycle, and we're definitely late cycle. Doesn't mean the cycle can't go on for quite a period of time. When you get late cycle, you know, sometimes standards decrease. And so I, you know, I know there'll be places in hindsight that we can point to and say oh, you know, there's, there's another example of that when there ultimately is a credit cycle.

[Becky Quick]

There was a lot of talk of bubbles just over the last week. Bubbles in AI, bubbles in markets. You don't particularly like that term. It's not one you want to use yourself.

[David Solomon]

Yeah, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't like to be, you know, overdramatic.

[Joe Kernan]

Bubble and bubbles.

[David Solomon]

You know, I've been looking at tech multiples and trying to put tech multiples in a historical context. You know, I've looked at a variety of data, variety, data on public company tech multiples and you know, also private capital formation for tech companies. And you know, it strikes me that, you know, that the multiples are kind of 75th percentile or 80 percentile. So there's no question, you know, we're somewhere in a cycle where the values are, are higher. But the growth opportunity coming from AI is significant. But I'm, you know, I'm certainly in the camp that they're going to be winners and losers. Capital has been allocated to companies that are going to be hugely important companies and it's going to be allocated to companies that, that ultimately, you know, won't make it or won't, you know, won't succeed in that context. And ultimately, whenever we have a new technology, especially at scale, and you have significant capital formation around it, you know they're going to be winners or losers. We're not smart enough, you know, to pick them all. And ultimately there's, you know, there's a rebalancing. But I think the long term trends around this technology, technology, the opportunity for productivity gains for some great companies to be formed is really quite exciting.

[Becky Quick]

How about how you're using it internally at Goldman Sachs? Because you've made a lot of comments in the past about how this can really do the work for investment bankers much faster.

[David Solomon]

Well, I think there, there are a couple of base ways that we're using it. We're very focused on this. The first is we've always, I mean, Since I started 40 some years ago, we get technology tools into the hands of really smart people to make them more productive. So I always joke about doing a common stock comparison. Forty years ago, it took six hours. You had to go to the library, go get microfiche to get back issues of the Wall Street Journal. Now somebody can do it in seconds. It doesn't mean we don't have a lot of very smart young people doing a lot of work. They're just doing different work than they did when I started 40 years ago. And so we continue to get these tools into the hands of our very smart people, and it makes them more productive. It gives them an ability to spend more time with clients, to do more. It scales our footprint, our reach. The more interesting thing we're spending a lot of time on, you might have seen last week, Becky, that we put out a memo where we announced what we're calling One Goldman Sachs 3.0. The evolution of our One Goldman Sachs operating ethos is we're really looking at six principles throughout the firm to operate the firm more efficiently, serve clients better. Where we're looking at processes inside the firm and saying, this technology gives us the right and the ability for the first time to reimagine these processes and really do them entirely differently, to automate a bunch of things to create meaningful efficiency that then can be reinvested in growth in the business. It's not just taking out cost. It's giving us more capacity to invest in our business and grow. And so we announced that because we're doing a lot of work internally and, you know, we said that in January, we'll talk more specifically about how this can affect the business. And, you know, we wanted a framework to be able to really work inside the firm and really drive this forward. But I can't find a CEO that I'm talking to in any industry that is not focused on how they can reimagine and automate processes in their business to create operating efficiency and productivity. And that's a really good thing for economic growth.

[Becky Quick]

Does that mean that this time is different and that it's not just going to make your, for your employees more efficient, but it's going to reduce your headcount? Or.

[David Solomon]

I don't, I don't think it's different. Technology has been having an impact on headcount, the way people work, what workers. You have, you know, for decades and decades and decades. And this. I think one of the things that's, that's, that's happening here that's a little bit different is this is going at a pace that's quicker.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah.

[David Solomon]

And so because the pace is so quick, I think there's a possibility that there's a little bit more volatility or, you know, an unsettled transition, you know, around certain job functions and things like that. But at the end of the day, we have an incredibly flexible, nimble economy. We have a great ability to adapt and adjust. And yes, there will be job functions that shift and change. You know, if you go back 25 years ago, we didn't have 13,000 engineers at Goldman Sachs. We've shifted and changed. My guess is the mix of engineers with this technology will again shift and change. But, but I'm excited about it. If you take a three to five year view, it's giving us more capacity to invest in our business. And I've, you know, I see lots of opportunities for our business but I still feel some constraints because we've got to deliver returns is to how much we can invest to grow our business. And this, this should free up more capacity to do the things we want to do to serve our clients and grow our business. And that's exciting.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What other acquisitions do you want to make?

[David Solomon]

Well, I just, it's, I'm excited about the acquisition we made last week.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I know if you, if you humor.

[David Solomon]

Me for a moment to say two.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Words, I'm very happy to.

[David Solomon]

We, we bought a company called Industry Ventures which manages about 7, $7 billion of kind of early stage venture. It's touched over 325 venture firms. Hans swilled in, was the founder of the business, an extraordinary guy. We've known this firm from a while. We had a, we had a stake, a 25% stake in the GP through our XIG business and Mike Brandmeier and our XIG business, you know, new Hans and was close to Hans and Hans approached him to say he was getting some interesting offers for the business. And Mike appropriately said, hey, you know, let's, let's bring this business into Goldman Sachs. And so what this allows us to do is, is really expand an offering to our client clients and give more access to our clients to early stage venture. But if you think about our ecosystem, our banking ecosystem, our private wealth ecosystem, getting access to these businesses earlier than we would naturally see them in the life cycle of Goldman Sachs creates great synergy for us. And so we're quite, quite excited about it. And I think this acquisition represents the kinds of things we're trying to do with things that expand our offering and accelerates the growth trajectory of our asset and wealth management business. And you know, there are other things like this that we're looking at, some small, some bigger, but we really are trying to broaden and expand what we think is a very powerful asset wealth management offering.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

If we were all sitting together five years from now, what would Goldman Sachs look like?

[David Solomon]

Same, I think, I think five years from now. And look, there can be, you know, ups and downs in the world that can affect it, but Goldman Sachs will basically have the two principal businesses that it's in now where it's a leader and has a right to win. Banking and markets where I think our position is, you know, with, with, with, without dispute. And then asset and wealth management, where we supervise right now $3.5 trillion of assets. We've talked publicly about the durable revenue in that business growing high single digit. If you look at our last earnings report, it's growing faster than that. And so we can continue to grow that business. I think we can add inorganically to that business to broaden that platform and accelerate it. And I think that those are two businesses that Goldman Sachs has a lot of room to run, a lot of room to win and a lot of room to create value for shareholders. And so we're, you know, we continue to be excited about the value trajectory that the firm's on.

[Becky Quick]

David, want to thank you for coming in today. We know you have to run, but we appreciate your time.

[David Solomon]

Well, I really appreciate you guys having me.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Our next interview on squawk pod. Billionaire hedge fund manager Bill Ackman. Historically outspoken in politics, he is now making a case to New Yorkers and to New Yorker business owners for November 4th.

[Joe Kernan]

All you do is you say to people, this is the most important New York City election we've had in 100 years, okay? And it's, it's not, not underestimating the facts here. All you need to do is get out of bed in the morning, okay? And show up at the poll vote.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Where Ackman is putting his vote and where he hopes New York business will end up right after this.

[Schwab Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions and results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] MarketUpdatePodcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts.

[AT&T Announcer]

And now a next level moment from ATT Business. Say you've sent out a gigantic shipment of pillows and they need to be there in time for International Sleep day. You've got AT and T5G so you're fully confident, but the vendor isn't responding and International Sleep Day is tomorrow. Luckily, AT&T 5G lets you deal with any issues with ease, so the pillows will get delivered and everyone can sleep soundly, especially you. AT&T 5G requires a compatible plan and device coverage not available everywhere. Learn [e-mail] 5G Network.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Welcome back to.

Squawk Pod up and Becky Q.

[Becky Quick]

You're watching Squawk Box right here on cnbc. I'm Becky Quick along with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorkin.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Election day here in New York City is just two weeks away. It's been become a national conversation. Joining us right now is a discussion about the mayoral race, the markets, the economy and so much more. Pershing Square CEO Bill Ackman is here. Good morning to you.

[Joe Kernen]

Morning.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You have been quite outspoken on X and elsewhere about this mayoral race. A lot of folks around the country looking at New York as a proxy for what the Democratic Party even looks like. You've been calling on Sliwa to get out of the race. You've been calling on all sorts of things to happen right now in terms of where you think things actually are based on what the numbers are. We've been looking at Polymarket and other things and it seems like Zoran Mandami is the clear favorite, not just the clear favorite, but that almost, almost any, under any circumstance he's going to win at this point.

[Joe Kernan]

Remember, polymarket is probability wins the election based on the facts that exist now, probably accurate. However, if Slew were to say I'm not going to run right now, the polls are 43, the most recent polls, 44 Mandami, 23, I'm sorry, 33 Cuomo and 19 Sliwa. I've seen polls that say the Sliwa voters are going to vote 65% for Andrew, 7% other and 25% won't vote something like this. But if slew of voters vote for Andrew, Andrew wins. The key is Sliwa has to be out of the race.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And just since we have to get out of the race and we were looking at the front page of the New York Post this morning, which was also calling for that if he does he have to get out of the race and endorse Cuomo?

[Joe Kernan]

Look, I think the smartest thing he could do for his legacy is to say, look, I love New York. I care about this city. I've put a lot of energy in keeping this city safe. You know, the polls, the facts just tell me I'm not going to win this time. I'm going to step aside. You know, I'm going to rely on Andrew to take care of the city. I'm going to keep doing my job protecting New Yorkers and I'm going to run in four years and then we'll build like we'll Have a gold statue of him in Times Square. And I know, actually a guy offered to pay for a gold statue of him.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Let me ask you.

[Joe Kernan]

Gold, by the way, it's gone up in value.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Let me ask you this. We have had Cuomo on the broadcast. We've asked Zeran to come on. He has not come on yet.

[Joe Kernan]

There's a reason for that.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And there's an invitation that's still standing, by the way, watching.

[Joe Kernan]

Here's what you should do. You should go to the DSA website. It says the capitalist economic system is the cause of violence, unemployment and a climate crisis imposes an existential threat to life on Earth.

[Becky Quick]

That's the democratic social.

[Joe Kernan]

That's the dsa, which is Zorin's policies. How can he come on cnbc?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So my question to you, though, is when you look at sort of the one, number one, two and three issues that you have with him, and I am assuming that your vote for Cuomo is effectively a vote against him.

[Joe Kernan]

It is.

[Joe Kernen]

Right.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And I, like Andrew, what are the issues for you? Is it about capitalism? Is it about policing in the city? Is it about anti Semitism? I mean, give me, give me the list. But in the true priority, because I think there's a lot of people who think that maybe you're in this because you don't want your taxes raised.

[Joe Kernan]

Okay? So, number one, I love New York. I love New York City. It's been very good to me. I care about the place. It's one of the greatest cities in the world. But it has issues. Okay, where is Mondame? Right. He's right that we have an affordability issue here. Okay. Why do we have an affordability issue in New York? Rent is too high, right. Utility costs are too high. Why is that? Right. The answer is because of policies that he wants to make worse. Right? Real estate developers would love to build more apartments in New York. There's enormous demand, right? Economics. If we increase the. There are not enough supply to meet the demand. So what happens is rents go up, right? Why is that? Because we make it one, extremely difficult to build in New York. All kinds of regulatory, other, not in my backyard, protests, things that drive up costs, that make it uneconomic to build new housing. Then there's rent regulation, right? If you, if you're telling people we're going to freeze rents, well, number one, you can only freeze rents on a million, maybe apartments. Not the other, you know, 25% of the housing stock, not the other 75% of the housing stock. We've got 50,000 apartments that sit vacant because the owner can't economically afford to renovate them because they can't earn a return on the incremental capital they put in. If you look at places like Argentina, which deregulated rent control, rents come down because supply comes back into the market. Some supply comes in immediately, apartments that are being held off, and then developers start building. What you want in New York is you want cranes everywhere building apartments, and that's going to drive down. That's going to keep rents from growing at a rate and excess of inflation. So affordability is a problem. Why. Why are electricity costs so high? Because of Green New Deal. Because of people fighting power lines, because of people, you know, shutting down, you know, natural gas, nuclear power plants. And that has caused the cost of. And we're going to have all this. We have all this demand from AI, of course, for. For power that's made it more expensive for. So he's right on affordability, but his policies are wrong. So that's an important issue. Another important issue is public safety. Right. The mayor actually probably has more impact on public safety. That's probably the most important issue for many. For most New Yorkers. And if he has a hostile relationship with the police department. Okay, you already are reading stories about people retiring in advance of Mount Dami being mayor. You know, he's. You know, if you look at what he said prior to the last few months of running for mayor, he was a defund the police. The police are wicked. The police are evil. You know, these are his words, his tweets. You know, it's in sort of in the record. That's not a guy who's going to be able to motivate the police. He's talked about, you know, shutting down Rikers. Right. You know, that's. So I would say affordability, safety. His policies are wrong. He's accurate in identifying the problems with the city, but his policies are going to explain why.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You think in your mind he is doing as well as he is on track to become the next mayor of this city.

[Joe Kernan]

He's very talented politician. He's charming. He's got a nice smile. Now, I would argue if you watched him in the debate, every time he answered a question, he'd finish with his smile. You know, it's a constructed smile, and it makes me not trust the guy.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So here we are having this conversation. He now uses you and your name almost as a proxy.

[Joe Kernan]

Yes.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

To suggest why he should win. Which is to say, interestingly, when you talk to especially younger people, they say if the real estate industry, for example, if my boss hates him and doesn't want him to win, I want him to win because I think that he's going to help me and they're going.

[Joe Kernan]

To come to regret that. I mean, if you 1% was just a editorial in the Wall street journal this morning, 1% of New Yorkers pay 40% of the taxes in the city. And if you attack that 1%, those are the most mobile 1% of New Yorkers and they can live 183 days outside of the city and they can take their tax revenues elsewhere.

[Becky Quick]

You've stayed here. You've been in New York this time.

[Joe Kernan]

Yes, I have.

[Becky Quick]

Would this be the thing that pushed you out of the city?

[Joe Kernan]

Look, what I would say is putting me aside. It's a marginal cost decision for everyone who's in New York City. And you weigh the benefits of living here 483 days of the year versus the costs.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Right.

[Joe Kernan]

One of the costs is taxes. And not just personal taxes. Personal income taxes are going to go up. I think the bigger issue is he's talking about taking corporate income taxes for a business located in New York City to 21%. That's before you get to federal. Right. And you know, CEO is a fiduciary for the, you know, the shareholders of the, the company. And if you can locate the business in Miami and eliminate 21 percentage points of corporate tax, he's going to do that. Right. So, you know, the matching New Jersey and forgetting that there's also New York City, you know, New York City and New York State, you know, taxes here, it just destroyed the city.

[Joe Kernen]

There are national Republicans, they like New York, but they don't live here and they think Republicans win the midterm. If this guy gets elected and becomes that, the Democrats have a real problem whether they endorse this guy or whether they accept him because it's just acknowledging all these things that they know don't work and they're afraid. They're so feckless that they can't say we don't agree with any of that stuff.

[Joe Kernan]

You're right. And I think the Republicans are being shortsighted about this because I think there are follow on implications for the rest of the country. If Mondami is successful in York is going to inspire other candidates successful in winning, winning, winning, inspire other DSA candidates at the state legislature in other states around the country.

[Joe Kernen]

We'll know where the Democratic Party actually.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So you're right.

[Joe Kernan]

If we destroy New York, it will.

[Joe Kernen]

Be a sacrificial lamb to out the current state of the Democratic Party and where the geographic center that is.

[Joe Kernan]

It's the current state of the Democratic Party. And by the way, if I were a card carrying member of the Democratic Party, I would be very concerned about this as well because it's, you know, the party is veered. What happened to your card? What's that?

[Joe Kernen]

What happened to that card?

[Joe Kernan]

I never really. I was always.

[Joe Kernen]

I know.

[Joe Kernan]

First of all, I was always a centrist.

[Joe Kernen]

Be super clear. You were pretty woke.

[Joe Kernan]

You were pretty woke for a while.

[Joe Kernen]

Yes. I was never woke in my view, Pat.

[Joe Kernan]

That's clear.

[Joe Kernen]

I left the lights on and you came.

[Joe Kernan]

Okay, there you go. Thank you. Thank you for welcoming. But in all seriousness, this is. New York City is the most important for the country, right? President Trump is concerned about New York City.

[Joe Kernen]

If he, in his own way, that would be an unbelievable foil for him. Mamdani.

[Joe Kernan]

It's, it's, it's terrible for New York.

[Becky Quick]

I don't think he wants it. I don't think.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Look, you don't think the National Guard is coming here the day after the election? I do.

[Joe Kernan]

Well, if, if we're, if we're shutting down Rikers and there are criminals roaming the streets and people are getting, you know, we've become Chicago. Yeah. We should have the National Guard here.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So let me ask you a different question, which is to the extent that there's two weeks left and you would like to see Cuomo win, I think you not just have to convince Sliwa to get out of the, the, the election. You effectively have to try to persuade some of the voters that would otherwise vote for Mondavi to vote for Kwame.

[Joe Kernan]

No. All we need to do is get out the vote. Okay? Here are a few interesting facts. Typical mayoral election. What percentage of the registered voters vote?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It's like 23 de minimis amount.

[Joe Kernan]

23 or 24%. Right. So if all you do is you say to people, this is the most important New York City election we've had in whatever 100 years, okay? And it's not underestimating the facts here. And all you need to do is get out of bed in the morning, okay? And show up at the poll. You're already registered. Vote, vote for safety in the city. Vote for sanity. Vote for a place where businesses want to locate and, you know, keep jobs, bring jobs. New York's on actually, you know, people underestimate Adams. He actually did a pretty good job and the city is economically in a pretty good place. People are actually coming Back to the office again after Covid.

[Becky Quick]

Why do you think Adams endorse Cuomo?

[Joe Kernan]

He should. He should. And he should end with Cuomo. I don't know. And does it matter again on the margin? Everything matters. But getting people out to vote, that's the most important thing they can do. By the way, every CEO of every company in New York City should say to their employees, I'm giving you election day. Come in after lunch. But vote. Vote for the future of New York City. We don't want a socialist candidate who believes in seizing the means of production. His words. Right. On a video. Right. This is what he believes. He's kind of modified. He's mollified some of the beliefs.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What do you tell the people who say, look, you know what? The mayor can't do that much anyway.

[Joe Kernan]

Mayor can do a lot. If you care about safety in New York, the mayor, first of all, he's not committed to keeping Jessica Tisch, who's done an excellent job. Right. Why is he not committed to keeping her? Because he knows, he says he's not keeping her. He's going to lose votes, but he's not going to keep her. There's no way he's going to bring in his own person. On crime, and we're going to see more crime.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Ask you a slightly different question before we get to the markets and everything else. What do you think? You know, this city has been the financial center of the universe for a very long time. Do you think that would shift if he was the mayor? And I ask because Jamie Dimon just opened up a beautiful new headquarters and has invested an enormous amount of money here. And so there is this view, especially among Mandami supporters who say nobody's to going, going anywhere. Everybody says they're so mobile, but look at what, what's happened. These buildings are here. They're going to be here for a very long time. Maybe a couple people move here and there. The city's going to be fine.

[Joe Kernan]

Just the problem with that analysis, Look, I think JP Morgan is going to have a meaningful presence in New York City. But also, look, if you focus on hedge funds for a moment, hedge funds are a very important taxpayer and employees who work for, for them in New York City, they're the most mobile businesses in the world. Ken Griffin left Chicago because he was upset about everything from people getting killed on the streets to the way that dysfunction, the way that city was run. And he went to Miami, and Miami is becoming a financial capital and it's becoming a more desirable place to Live and they're opening. A lot of the New York City restaurants have opened, Brent, you know, duplicate examples there. You know, the weather is very good most months of the year and you know, I don't think J.P. morgan is going to leave in the next four years. And you know, no. Do I think many hedge funds will go, many financial services businesses. I mean, the, the. What happened? Post Covid. Post Covid people figured out that they could actually do a lot by zoom and that made it a lot easier to, you know, it used to be you had to be physically in New York so you could go to a meeting and see someone. Zoom. You know, it's still good to see people in person, but a lot of meetings that you used to do in person you now do by zoom, which makes other places like Miami much more viable, Palm beach, etc.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You've been asking for a conversation, a meeting on X with the person who may very well become the next mayor, unsuccessfully. Do you ask that? I mean, I imagine you're asking it genuinely, but do you believe that he would correspond with you?

[Joe Kernan]

Well, look, the guys attacked me personally, so I'm like, okay, let's have a real conversation. Are you afraid to have a discussion with me on X? An open mic discussion where I can ask you about your policies and I can challenge you about your policies? Why not? As opposed to, you know, having, you know, I would say open mic. Give me a couple of hours and let's, let's understand who you really are. I'd love to do that. The fact that he's unwilling to do that. He's not responded to do that. I think so speaks. He's. He's afraid to do so.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

While we have you here, got to ask you about your take on just where we are in this economy and where we are in the markets. What do you think we keep talking about? You know, we say there's a bubble in conversations around a bubble.

[Joe Kernan]

Yeah, I would say there's a lot of positive me be optimistic for a moment. I'm negative on New York if on DAMI is elected, but I'm positive on the country. You know, clearly we have the most pro business part president we've had in a very long time. And we also have a lot of very significant things that have been announced, but the effects have not yet really taken effect. So one infrastructure bill from the past, we have the more recent tax bill which gives 100% depreciation for investment. We have this massive AI infrastructure investment that's building the railroads of the you Know, the early part of the 20th century, we have the productivity effects of AI that are only just starting to have significant effect. We have interest rates coming down meaningfully the 10 years below 4%. We have a Fed that's accommodative, likely to sort of cut interest rates. You know, so these are all, I would say, very positive for the economy and for market.

[Joe Kernen]

There's a time when I think you wouldn't have called Trump the most pro business president when a lot of people, you were worried about tariffs. A lot of people worried about tariffs obviously in April. Is it that those tariffs never really came? The worst case scenario obviously didn't happen and probably at this point most people think are unlikely to happen.

[Joe Kernan]

No, actually I think of, I think Trump has been the most pro business president president we've ever had.

[Joe Kernen]

But that's tariffs. We're going to hurt the markets.

[Joe Kernan]

At one point I was a little bit concerned about the, you know, the scale of the tariffs and how quickly they were about to be implemented.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah.

[Joe Kernan]

My suggestion to the president was to take a 90 day pause. And to his credit he, you know, he modified that position.

[Joe Kernen]

So he is pro business. Even though people say these tariffs are.

[Joe Kernan]

By the way, he doesn't care if the stock market goes down in the short term, he cares in the long term. And I trust the, the president and I think he's done an excellent job.

[Becky Quick]

What about that?

[Joe Kernan]

I think he's also done an excellent job. By the way. The other factors that affect markets are kind of geopolitical risk. And I think geopolitical risk is coming down. Right. The whole Middle east, the Middle east.

[Joe Kernen]

Has been recently Donald Trump, I don't know what his approval would be if he wasn't Donald Trump, given if you.

[Joe Kernan]

Actually objectively look at his accomplishments, it's been an incredible presidency.

[Becky Quick]

But what about the Chinese trade talks that are coming up again? Because we are reaching the end of that kind of extended pause.

[Joe Kernan]

Look, you can't bet against the president, his ability to negotiate deals. I mean, you can't. And I mean it's the Middle East. You know, the Israel, Gaza situation, you know, a peace dividend from the Middle east could be massive. Right. We have these countries with incredible resources. Only thing holding back the Middle east has been Iran, terrorism, you know, the sort of axis of evil. The one, the axis of evil is taken a major, major blow. And I think that's a great, you know, that brings down risk premium sort of globally. So again, I think there are a lot of reasons to be optimistic about.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The World, where are you on the relation with China?

[Joe Kernan]

I wish we had a better relationship with China. Absolutely. I think, I think it's really unfortunate that two of the most important, two most important powers in the world are at loggerheads. And, and I just think, you know, we should, we should make peace with China. I think that'd be very, very good. That would be, that would be an incredible white swan, let's put it that way.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Let me ask you a slightly different question about maybe capitalism on a different front, which is this administration has been uniquely taking stakes in businesses, they're interested in, you know, switching grants, potentially at universities to effectively take stakes in patents and all sorts of things. What do you think of that?

[Joe Kernan]

What I think is that the United States allowed other countries to control, use a Mandami term, the means of production and make the United States vulnerable, whether it was chip manufacturing or active pharmaceutical ingredients or rare earths. And that created a lot of vulnerability for the country. And I think what the President is doing is trying to solve that problem by, you know, enhancing the competitive position of intel and sort of anointing these companies. You know, if intel failed, and by the way, if you look at the stock price chart of intel, it was on a very negative trajectory for the business. That's a, that's a threat to the country.

[Joe Kernen]

Not a perfect way to do things. Obviously, picking. I mean, maybe intel should have failed.

[Joe Kernan]

I think that would be. Been a mistake.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Right.

[Joe Kernen]

But again, you know, what, what the.

[Joe Kernan]

Biden administration did is it gave money to Intel. What Trump said, you know, I want to, I want to get a return on my investment.

[Joe Kernen]

So picking winners and losers, solar, I mean, picking any, you know, renewables or electric cars, none of that stuff.

[Joe Kernan]

Look, I think you should be cautious about the government stepping in and becoming a capitalist force. At the same time, if the government is going to provide some form of subsidy to an industry, getting something back so the taxpayer gets a return on the investment, I think is a very smart strategy.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I. This boom is.

[Joe Kernan]

It's incredible, incredible, incredible for the long.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

As the eye can see or. I mean, do you think that, think about indiscriminate spending. Do you think that it's.

[Joe Kernan]

I think it's. Again, it's a bit like the railroads, a bit like fiber. The worst case scenario is we have excess capacity. But I think what we've seen is, I mean, intelligence is not something that you're ever going to have excess capacity for. So if and when we achieve AGI. Right, this is a lollapalooza Effect for the world. We're going to, you know, enable us to. We're already starting to see impacts on, you know, cancer discovery and, you know, so imagine a world where we can, you know, address every disease.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Right.

[Joe Kernan]

Imagine a world where we can, you know, the power of superintelligence is worth a meaningful investment. Will some of this money. Will some companies go bust for sure. But I wouldn't bet against the alphabets of the world have the resources to make these investments. Business.

[Joe Kernen]

I was going to call the Post that New York paper. I won't do that. Obviously we know that. The great lady. But they do say this effect. Be an angel and go away, Curtis. And then they say, for the sake of the city you love so deeply, Curtis, please swallow this bitter pill and drop out. Yeah, I think that's pretty good.

[Joe Kernan]

I respect the guy, okay? I have nothing against him. I know he cares about the city.

[Joe Kernen]

He's not gonna win. So what's he likes?

[Joe Kernan]

All he is doing right now is handing the city. It's an ego thing. I don't know what he's thinking. Okay. By the way, if he were at whatever, 31% and Balmore at 19, I'd be supporting him.

[Joe Kernen]

Slightest chance, but did you understand Perot or. I mean, people do this. Look what's happened over the years in the national elections.

[Joe Kernan]

Yeah.

[Joe Kernen]

This is Whatever her name was.

[Joe Kernan]

Remember? He's. It's not the first time he's running for office. He lost to Adams. He got 28% of the vote against Adams. So he's. He's already failed to become mayor in a much less competitive situation.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Bill Ackman, I want to thank you for joining us this morning. Really, it's great to see you.

[Joe Kernan]

Incredibly important election. If you're a CEO, let your workers.

[Joe Kernen]

Let your employees vote early and often.

[Joe Kernan]

And by the way. Yeah, vote early.

[Joe Kernen]

Critically early and often.

[Joe Kernan]

Really important for New York.

[Joe Kernen]

You don't need an ID for public.

[Joe Kernan]

Safety, for business here. For the country.

[Joe Kernen]

From New Jersey.

[Joe Kernan]

I'm gonna vote it for the country, for the future of the country. We do not want a socialist leading the most important financial city in the country. We don't. The government wants to seize the means of production. Okay, this is bad stuff.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Thank you, sir.

That's the podcast for today. Thank you for tuning in. Squawk Box is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Weekday mornings on CNBC starting at 6am Eastern to get the smartest takes and analysis from that TV show right into your ears. Follow Squawkpod wherever you're listening now, we'll meet you right back here tomorrow. Have a great day.

[Joe Kernan]

We are clear.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Thanks guys.

[Schwab Announcer]

Trading at Schwab is powered by Ameritrade, giving you even more specialized support than ever before. Like access to the trade desk. Our team of passionate traders ready to tackle anything from the most complex trading questions to a simple strategy. Gut check. Need assistance? No problem. Get 24. 7 professional answers and live help. And access support by phone, email and in platform chat. That's how Schwab is here for you to help you trade brilliantly. Learn [e-mail] trading.