Holiday Gratitude & Happiness with Arthur Brooks 12/26/25

Summary

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Episode Overview

Podcast: Squawk Pod
Episode: Holiday Gratitude & Happiness with Arthur Brooks
Date: December 26, 2025
Main Theme:
The day after Christmas edition focuses on the intersection of economics, happiness, consumer spending, and gratitude. Anchors dive into how people are feeling at the end of the year and bring on Harvard Professor Arthur Brooks to share evidence-based insights on what truly drives happiness, especially around the holidays and in times of economic pressure.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Post-Holiday News and Consumer Sentiment

Hosts: Steve Liesman, Leslie Picker, Contessa Brewer

• Mood of Post-Holiday News: The anchors reflect on the generally negative tone of news, with Steve Liesman humorously suggesting, “The news is negative because the guys who write it are mad about having to come in.” (01:11)
• Powerball Jackpot: There’s banter about a $1.8 billion Powerball winner in Arkansas, sparking discussion about hope and the psychology of lotteries. Steve quips, “The lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math.” (02:00)
• Holiday Travel & Weather: Hosts detail holiday travel disruptions due to inclement weather across the US, affecting thousands of flights and cities hit by storms.

2. Holiday Shopping & Retail Trends

Guest: Michael Zakor, Retail Expert (Five New Digital Founder, author of “The New Retail”)

• Compressed Shopping Season: This year’s calendar left only 27 days between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Zakor notes, “Consumers proved to be incredibly resilient even in a shortened season… value retailers have done very well.” (10:45)
• Winners & Losers:
  • Electronics emerged as the big winner (“Electronics were the clear winner… gaming consoles, new phones, new laptops.” 11:35)
  • Apparel: There was a surge in demand for casualwear—pajamas, cargo pants, graphic tees—reflecting ongoing ‘comfort’ trends.
  • Luxury Bifurcation: The “K-shaped economy” persists: the top 20% account for 80% of consumer spending. Ultra-luxury is strong, but aspirational buyers have withdrawn. “It’s harder to justify. I saved up for a $3,500 purse that this season is $6,500 and you didn’t improve the value.” (13:00)
• Outlook for 2026: Zakor predicts a “holiday hangover” with increased credit card and buy-now-pay-later bills coming due, but expects continuing strength among value retailers, especially with lingering inflation.
• Tariffs’ Impact: Christmas goods are nearly all imported, mostly from China. “Roughly 98% of all Christmas holiday decorations are made in China. So the China tariffs were going to have an effect.” (17:54) Inventory overstock earlier in the year buffered higher prices, but expect more expensive decorations next season.

3. The Science of Happiness & Money with Arthur Brooks

Interviewers: Becky Quick, Andrew Ross Sorkin
Guest: Arthur Brooks (Harvard Professor, columnist at The Atlantic, host of Office Hours podcast)

Can Money Buy Happiness?

• Eliminating Unhappiness vs. Creating Happiness: “The government can't bring you happiness. It can't. What it can do is eliminate sources of unhappiness…and what consumers are worried about this holiday season is inflation.” (21:10)
• Inflation’s Impact: Brooks calls inflation “a tax. It's a tyranny. It's bad policy, and everybody knows it. So when politicians say it's not that bad, it just enrages people.” (21:33)

The Five Evidence-Based Ways to Use Money for Happiness

Arthur Brooks shares his “formula” for maximizing happiness with your resources:

1. Buy Experiences with People You Love

   • “That’s why a vacation with people you love… is really, really great and meaningful and wonderful.” (23:24)

2. Buy Time

   • Outsourcing chores gives you time for what matters most, but “don’t waste the time that you’re buying. Be super purposive about it.” (23:42)

3. Give Money Away—To What You Love

   • “Number three is giving your money away, but you have to give it to things that you love.” (24:28)
   • Example: Brooks and his wife tithe, mostly to Catholic education, and discuss the value of “turning the whole dial on one person” versus minimal donations to many.

4. Saving

   • “Saving money brings enormous satisfaction because you don’t have to worry about things. It puts off the fear, the panic… Consumer debt is idiocy for happiness. You should never run a credit card balance if you can possibly avoid it.” (28:01)
   • Only mortgages—and saving for generational wealth—are exceptions.

5. Not Explicitly Stated, but Implied: Community & Love

   • Brooks emphasizes collaborating with friends in charitable giving, focusing on meaningful relationships and investments in people.

Memorable Story: Adoption as Ultimate Giving

Brooks shares that his wife’s suggestion to “do something big for one person” led them to adopt a child from China. “It was the most amazing experience in your life. Game changer.” (27:42)

Best Christmas Gifts?

Brooks recommends gifting experiences over stuff. He shares how each year he’d take each child on a special, one-on-one experience, “That was a Christmas gift. Strong recommend because that's number two: Experiences with people you love.” (29:36)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On News After the Holidays:
  “Can we go back and rewrite that stuff and say somebody helped somebody else and somebody did a good deed... or something, somebody smiled.”
  —Steve Liesman (02:16)

• On the Psychology of the Lottery:
  “Lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math.”
  —Steve Liesman (02:00)

• On Inflation and Unhappiness:
  “The government can't bring you happiness. It can't. What it can do is eliminate sources of unhappiness.”
  —Arthur Brooks (21:10)

• On Luxury Consumption:
  “I think a lot of aspirational luxury buyers have dropped out of the market... harder to justify. I saved up for a $3,500 purse that this season is $6,500 and you didn't improve the value.”
  —Michael Zakor (13:00; highlighted twice in the episode for emphasis)

• On How to "Spend" for Happiness:
  “Your impulses tell you to do the one thing that won't buy happiness, which is getting stuff… We adapt. That's what we do to stuff. But there's four other things that you can do, and they all buy happiness.”
  —Arthur Brooks (22:41)

• On Philanthropy:
  “What gives more satisfaction? Throwing dollars out of a helicopter, you know, $100 here, $100 there, or turn the whole dial on one person.”
  —Arthur Brooks (26:44)

• On Parenting through Experiences:
  “I would go alone away with each one of my kids every year when they were little. Strong recommend...”
  —Arthur Brooks (28:54)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:11 – Steve Liesman on the negative tone of post-holiday news
• 02:00 – Powerball jackpot, “tax on people who are bad at math”
• 10:45-18:25 – Michael Zakor on holiday retail trends, K-shaped economy, and tariffs
• 21:10 – Arthur Brooks: “Government can’t bring you happiness…”
• 22:41-24:28 – Brooks breaks down what “buys” happiness (experiences, buying time, giving, saving)
• 27:35 – Brooks’ story about adopting a daughter from China as turning the “whole dial” for someone
• 28:54 – Brooks’ advice: gift experiences, especially with your children

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Episode Takeaways

• Inflation and affordability are top of mind for consumers, causing concern that overshadows even holiday cheer.
• Experiential and value-focused spending dominated the 2025 holiday season; luxury spending is up only at the extreme high end.
• The path to happiness is proven but counterintuitive: Stop chasing more stuff, and focus on time, experiences, meaningful giving, purposeful saving, and nurturing relationships.
• “Turning the whole dial on one person”—making a profound difference for someone—delivers the deepest fulfillment.

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Closing Tone

In the spirit of year-end reflection and gratitude, the episode encourages listeners to reconsider how they define value and happiness, especially as they look toward a new year. The tone remains hopeful, practical, and sometimes wry, with plenty of relatable banter and evidence-backed wisdom.

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For more in-depth discussion, refer to key segments:

• Michael Zakor on Retail & K-shaped Economy (10:45–18:25)
• Arthur Brooks on Money, Happiness, and Giving (20:35–29:46)

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Happy holidays from the Squawk Pod team!

Transcript

[Arthur Brooks]

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[Arthur Brooks]

Bring in show music, please.

[Katie Kramer]

Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod, the day after Christmas edition.

[Steve Liesman]

The news is negative because the guys who write it are mad about having to come in.

[Katie Kramer]

We're here working today on this holiday shortened week, a year end happiness. Check in with how to Build a Life columnist Arthur Brooks.

[Arthur Brooks]

The government can't bring you happiness. It can't. What it can do is eliminate sources of unhappiness and what consumers are worried.

[Katie Kramer]

About this holiday season. With retail expert Michael Zakor.

[Michael Zakor]

I think a lot of aspirational luxury buyers have dropped out of the market. It's harder to justify. I saved up for a $3,500 purse that this season is $6,500 and you didn't improve the value.

[Katie Kramer]

Plus our pinch hitters, Steve Leesman, Leslie Picker and Contestant Brewer on today's news, like medals on the move and one lucky Powerball player in Arkansas.

[Steve Liesman]

Lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math.

[Contessa Brewer]

You can't win if you don't play.

[Katie Kramer]

It is Friday, December 26th. Squawk Pod begins right now.

[Steve Liesman]

You're watching SQUAWKBOX on cnbc. I'm Steve Liesman along with Leslie Picker. And now we've been joined by Contessa Brewer, Joe, Becky and Andrew. Well, they're smarter than all three of they are off today. Among today's top stories, President Trump says the US Launched an airstrike against Islamic State forces in Nigeria who he said have been targeting and killing Christians. A spokesperson for Nigeria's Ministry of Foreign affairs said the strikes were carried out as part of an ongoing security cooperation with the United States. Tens of thousands of people, meanwhile, still without power in California following days of rain and flooding, Malibu is under a flood watch until this afternoon. A powerful storm that hit California Yesterday prompted mudflows, evacuation warnings and high surf advisories. The National Weather Service says the San Francisco Bay area could see 25 foot waves today. And the New York City area, meanwhile, on the other coast under a winter storm warning from this afternoon through tomorrow afternoon with between 5 and 9 inches of snow expected. If you're looking to get out of town, FlightAware says nearly 500 flights have been canceled in the US with thousands of delays. And that's the news after the great holiday we all had. I mean, can we go back and rewrite that stuff and say somebody helped somebody else and somebody did a good deed and there was a charity thing or I mean something, somebody smiled.

[Leslie Picker]

I just think about the lottery winner, the 1.8 billion.

[Steve Liesman]

The lottery winner, 1.8 billion in Arkansas.

[Leslie Picker]

What better Christmas gift is there?

[Steve Liesman]

Yeah, but you know how our guys would write it? They'd say it wasn't me.

[Contessa Brewer]

Yes. Well, no, that's what I was getting ready to say too. I played.

[Steve Liesman]

You were gonna say that too?

[Contessa Brewer]

Yeah. I played in New York, I played in New Jersey and I played in Florida and I didn't win in any of those states, so. But I wasn't.

[Steve Liesman]

Is that a strategy to go across a multi state?

[Contessa Brewer]

That's how you do it now.

[Steve Liesman]

How much?

[Contessa Brewer]

I'm just gonna spend 400 bucks on a plane ticket to Florida in hopes that I win. The $1.8 billion just didn't work out for me this time.

[Leslie Picker]

If there's anyone who knows anything about betting.

[Contessa Brewer]

That's right, it's Contessa Brewer and Gambling. But listen, when you look at this, this is perfect of what is driving the profits for lottery companies now like Jackpocket, which is now owned by DraftKings. It's the place where you can go and buy your ticket online. Your lottery ticket in many states. And the big jackpots drive bigger and bigger profits. It's, it's.

[Steve Liesman]

Which makes no sense because you realize lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math.

[Contessa Brewer]

It's also. But the thing is you can't win if you don't play. Right. Remember when they used to have that as the slogan on the jackpot? So if you're not playing at all, you're not going to win. But if you play 10 bucks, you're probably not going to win.

[Steve Liesman]

I'm getting phrases in my ear. The dollar in a dream according to Contino and in it to win it is what he's saying. So he's the other side of this.

[Leslie Picker]

It's about Hope. Giving people something to hope. I feel like this is a good Hallmark movie.

[Steve Liesman]

It's like pathetic, you know, playing. You're not going to win.

[Arthur Brooks]

You're not going to win in my Hallmark.

[Steve Liesman]

No, you're not going to win in my Hallmark movie. I think the news is negative because the guys who write it are mad about having to come in. I think there's a subjective tinge to the news today.

[Contessa Brewer]

Or it could just be that if it's all good news, that's not really news. If everything's working the way it's supposed to.

[Steve Liesman]

I am going to challenge the guys in the back to come up with some. There was a nice piece about a guy, was it the Journal yesterday, who gave away a bunch of money.

[Leslie Picker]

He made $40 million.

[Steve Liesman]

Yeah, that's a nice piece.

[Leslie Picker]

That was a great piece.

[Steve Liesman]

And why aren't more companies doing that?

[Leslie Picker]

Well, this is like a big effort by kkr, actually. Their head of private equity is really big into employee ownership and giving employees a stake in a company and getting the upside.

[Steve Liesman]

When you sell it, you get some.

[Leslie Picker]

Yeah.

[Steve Liesman]

So you had some good news. Yeah, little scratch beneath the surface and there it is.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah.

[Steve Liesman]

So you can get it out of everybody. That's the challenge today.

[Leslie Picker]

All right, well, let's find some good news. Who are invested in the market are markets.

[Steve Liesman]

Good news.

[Leslie Picker]

We'll check on the futures at this hour.

[Steve Liesman]

No, not open.

[Leslie Picker]

Lower. Yeah, it was up at a record, at least for the S and P on Wednesday. Thin trading, of course. This morning the Dow implied to open down about 100 points, so we'll see if that holds into the open. Treasuries pretty stable this morning in this again shortened trading week. Limited liquidity, you can see the 10 year is sitting around 4.13. The 30 year a little higher. Those yields at 4.799. Oil, pretty big story this morning given all the geopolitical news we've seen. But WTI up about 0.2%, down about 16% over the past year. Gold and precious metals, that has been just the gift.

[Steve Liesman]

That's good news if you own that stuff.

[Leslie Picker]

That has been a glittering trade right there. Up 71% over the past year, up another 0.8% this morning. Silver up 3.75% and up 145% over the last year or so. Let's take a look at Bitcoin final four trading days of the year. That's down about 7% over last year, up 0.8% this morning. So, you know, not the best year for Bitcoin, but up a little today.

[Contessa Brewer]

And let's take a look at some of the morning's movers. While we're at it, we're starting off with a look at the chip makers. You've got Micron and Sandisk both up about 2% in the early trade. Getting a boost from news over the holiday that Samsung and SK Hynix are reportedly raising the price of their HBM3e chip deliveries by 20% in 2026. AI chip demand is increasing and of course you've got Nvidia getting approval to sell its H200 chips in China. Micron is up 246% this year. SanDisk up 613%. I mean that's pretty notable mover. Let's get to shares of AST Space Mobile around 1% after successful launch of its Bluebird 6 satellite. Meant to deliver high speed, 4G and 5G space based broadband directly to smartphones. The company plans to launch up to 60 satellites by the end of 2026. And those shares up 276%.

[Steve Liesman]

Is that a competitor to Starlink? That's going to be.

[Contessa Brewer]

That's very interesting question. You know who would be able to answer. Let's ask her. And finally a check on metals here. All moving positive premarket with gold, silver and platinum jumping to all time highs. Investors are really focused on, as Leslie mentioned, the geopolitical tensions, the speculative bets and the expectations for more Fed rate cuts next year. You've got gold up more than 70% this year, silver up more than 150%. And this morning look at copper on a tear 2.5% higher. Silver COMEX is up by 3.5%. Miners like Newmont First Majestic Core Mining and Hecla Mining all moving up along with the precious metals as well.

[Arthur Brooks]

Time now for today's AFLAC trivia question. On this day in 1941, President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed a bill making what holiday fall on an official day? The answer, Thanksgiving. The bill required the holiday to always fall on the fourth Thursday in November.

[Steve Liesman]

And that is significant because it determines the length of the holiday shopping season. And I can tell you as a person who gathers data on holiday shopping and and tries to seasonally adjust it, it is a nightmare. We can talk about that in a minute.

[Leslie Picker]

But 30 days made it like a specific day.

[Steve Liesman]

Yeah, but, but President Roosevelt didn't know about Cyber Monday potentially landing in December, December 1st. And then my asking perplexity, what is the percentage probability that the four important shopping days Black Friday through are in December and it's 70. It's 70% of the time they're in thank. They're in November.

[Contessa Brewer]

Right.

[Steve Liesman]

And we have been through two years with the 30% of the time when some or all of those four days have been in December.

[Contessa Brewer]

Which also means fewer shopping days before Christmas.

[Steve Liesman]

Thank you so much. Contessa. The holiday shopping rush is over for the most part. Consumers will now look to spend their gift card, return unwanted items and hunt for year end discounts. Joining us, Michael Zakor. Did I say that correctly? Michael, thank you. Five New Digital Founder and author of the New Retail. All right, can we talk about this calendar thing? Did it matter at all this year.

[Michael Zakor]

And you did matter. It was, it jumped out at me immediately. In the summer, you know, when I'm planning my holiday rituals and what I'm doing for my own shopping and working with my clients. I said, oh my God, we're only going to have, I think it was 27 days between.

[Steve Liesman]

Right.

[Michael Zakor]

Thanksgiving and Christmas. So it was short. But consumers proved to be incredibly resilient even in a shortened season. You know, people ask you, hey, how to go? Who's the winners, who's the losers? You know, the value retailers have done very well. Wal Mart, dollar stores. And I think that's because people had less money to spend and they want to spend it in fewer places and they had a shorter amount of time to do it.

[Steve Liesman]

What were the things that jumped to the front of the pack here in terms of what we were buying and, and how they were dealing with this idea of limited budgets?

[Michael Zakor]

Yeah, electronics were the clear winner. So we think gaming consoles, new phones, new laptops and that created a mini boom for the retailers and the brands and the technology companies who are inserting their stuff into those devices. So if you see chat, CBT downloads are through the roof because I got a new phone. So I think electronics, also apparel, casual apparel, a lot of pajamas, a lot of cargo pants and a lot of graphic tees.

[Leslie Picker]

Cargo pants.

[Contessa Brewer]

It's almost like we've got when now this is pandemic 2.0 where everybody's like living in the comfort.

[Steve Liesman]

I'm not supposed to say this but, but there was a lot of talk about Victoria's Secrets doing really well. Didn't they have a report out last week?

[Contessa Brewer]

You see that?

[Steve Liesman]

Well, you know, it's sort of your.

[Michael Zakor]

Yeah, I did. I didn't see how they see that.

[Steve Liesman]

Okay.

[Michael Zakor]

No, but you know, if we look at the, the retail stocks who are doing well right now, it's reflective of the season. So yeah, Dollar stores are up, Wal Mart's up, the TGX stores are up. It's all that discounted.

[Contessa Brewer]

I had a couple of guests on Worldwide Exchange this morning who were talking about this idea that the K shape economy continues in 2026, that the affluent customers are still confident in the economy and spending like the economy is booming and budget minded people are not. What are you seeing?

[Michael Zakor]

So our research internally showed that over the course of 2025, about 80% of consumer spending was spent by the top 20% of earners. So that is a reality. It's the way the season's gone. And again I think that's why, you know, the discount retailers did really well.

[Contessa Brewer]

Is 2026 going to be then a year for luxury retailers?

[Michael Zakor]

It could be a year for a comeback for luxury retailers. Luxury had a little bit of a rough 2025 again because of inflation globally. You know, I think a lot of aspirational luxury buyers have dropped out of the market. You know, it's harder to justify. I saved up for a 30 $500 purse that this season is 60$500. And you didn't improve the value. You didn't tell me I'm getting something more than I did last year. So on the luxury end we're seeing the ultra high, high luxury companies or Mezzano, the big stuff, they're doing really well. But the aspirational bottom is pretty much.

[Contessa Brewer]

Like what Tiffany lvmh, that kind of level.

[Michael Zakor]

They're at the highest level. Even within those companies it's the highest priced products. Right. The ultra. So the $500,000 watch, the quarter million dollar pair of earrings, those are moving really well that, you know, lowish to mid level luxury. It's really hurting right now so it should be a comeback.

[Steve Liesman]

I'm not sure that we get the best read on the K shaped economy through Christmas. My theory is that people, they do as much as they possibly can to extend themselves and to buy things for their love. Was it after the Christmas season that we might see this come more into, into focus? The idea that there are these two really different things going on right now in terms of stagnant incomes and some concerns about jobs and then the affluent who are reaping the gains, I think of a stock market that's doing very well. So give us your outlook for 2026 at this point.

[Michael Zakor]

Yeah, I mean listen, there's going to be a little bit of a holiday hangover, right like you put there. People are going to wake up in the morning and say oh My God, look at my credit card bill and my buy now pay later bills. Overall though, I think 2026, we're going to see a fairly strong retail economy. Consumers are continuing to spend. They're obviously shifting to essentials and shifting away from, you know, the things that they don't need. They're really focusing on home. Right. What are we going to get for clothes, food? The reality is going to be that inflation is still going to be up when we wake up tomorrow morning and budgets are still going to be constrained. And that's why I'm still putting my debts, putting my bets on the budget and dollar retailers.

[Steve Liesman]

When I look at the macro situation with the consumer, I see a sort of bifurcation here. On the one hand, employment is relatively low, the balance sheets are in good shape. On the other hand, and by the way, in addition to that, you have these refunds coming through next year that could be very helpful. And then sort of counting that are the lousy sentiment numbers. Which ones without.

[Michael Zakor]

Yeah, I mean, for me, this season, to your point, Steve, it's kind of been a little Dickensian, but you know, in the way of it was the best of times, it was the worst of times. Right. So we're all feeling really good about sports spending on the holiday, but then we're going to wake up in January and February.

[Leslie Picker]

So with the whole affordability and sentiment kind of dynamic that we're seeing in the backdrop here, are retailers responding with deeper discounts and more promotions? Is that kind of the natural reaction or are they just expecting consumers to do the trade down dynamic that you were mentioning earlier?

[Michael Zakor]

No, this season was highly promotional and very much dependent on discounts to draw people in. You know, that's going to tail off now as we get into the new year, but it was very promotional and still, you know, what worries me is we haven't seen the inflation adjusted numbers yet. So yeah, it looks great on paper. You know, the NRF says we went up 4.2%. That's true, but we haven't accounted for, you know, the underlying numbers.

[Steve Liesman]

We didn't talk about tariffs at all. Michael, was that a factor?

[Michael Zakor]

It's a huge factor. So we got very lucky this holiday season in that a lot of smart retailers did bring in enough inventory to cover the holiday season so that the tariffs were not a major factor. They were a factor, but not a major factor. But now we're seeing that inventory is run out. Right. And actually, you know, some of the discount stores like Marshalls, you know, they had great prices and great selection this year because all these retailers brought in so much stock over the summer. Then they had too much, they liquidated it. And that's good for the TJ Max shopper.

[Steve Liesman]

There was a report, I'm looking it up now, that we spent Americans imported $362 million of Christmas tree lights and paid $18 million in customs duties on that over the period of 25 through to $20 million in customs duties for other, other aspects. I mean there was a big numbers that were paid on some of the just decorating for Christmas was expensive in that regard.

[Michael Zakor]

Yeah, roughly 98% of all, all Christmas holiday decorations are made in China. So the China tariffs were going to have an effect on the holiday season. We saw it in Halloween as well. You know, I did some retail safari work around Halloween and I was finding you know, things that were 50, 60, 80% more expensive than they were a year before. Now as we head into January, all of that pre tariff inventory is gone. So you have a potential to see prices really jump in the first quarter of the coming year.

[Contessa Brewer]

Thank you very much for joining us. We appreciate that.

[Andy Richter]

Cheese will be next.

[Katie Kramer]

Coming up on Squawk Pod, finding joy in the world this holiday season. Happiness guru Arthur Brooks on giving what really matters.

[Arthur Brooks]

What gives more satisfaction? Throwing dollars out of a helicopter, you know, $100 here, $100 there, or turn the whole dial on one person. Hey, this is Will Arnett, host of Smartless. Smartless is a podcast with myself and Sean Hayes and Jason Bateman where each week one of us reveals a mystery guest to the other two. We dive deep with guests that you love like Bill Hader, Selena Gomez, Jennifer Aniston, David Beckham, Kristen Stewart and tons more. So join us for a genuinely improvised and authentic conversation filled with laughter and and newfound knowledge to feed the smartless mind. Listen to Smartless now on the Sirius XM app. Download it.

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[Katie Kramer]

Eduardo. Welcome back to Squawk Pod. From cnbc. It's a holiday week, and for many of us, that means more family, more socializing, more giving, and more gratitude. Our Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin sat down with a squawk box guest who's made it his mission to study how those things, gratitude, giving and family can make us happier as humans.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Our next guest is here with a holiday survival guide. Joining us right now is Harvard professor Arthur Brooks. He hosts Office Hours, that podcast. It's new and it's awesome. Also, of course, the columnist with the Atlantic. But what we want to talk about this morning.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Is money and happiness. The very idea of can you buy happiness?

[Arthur Brooks]

Right.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And how we should all feel right now when everyone talks about affordability.

[Arthur Brooks]

Right.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And how unaffordable things are. Is that supposed to. Is that make you unhappy? I would imagine it does, yes. How do you think about this?

[Arthur Brooks]

So when we're talking about affordability and inflation, it's not about happiness. It really is about unhappiness. The government can't bring you happiness. It can't. What it can do is eliminate sources of unhappiness, and it can bring you a lot of unhappiness. The number one source of unhappiness that governments typically bring to citizens is not actually maintaining a stable price level because it chips away at the purchasing power of people and they hate it. It's a tax. It's a tyranny. It's bad policy, and everybody knows it. So when politicians say it's not that bad, it just enrages people. And quite justifiably so, that's job number one. If you look at the top three reasons why people didn't vote for Kamala Harris, which was really about Joe Biden, it was, number one, inflation. It was only. Number two was immigration. Number three was social policy or social issues. So that's the thing to keep in mind.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Okay, so how. So how are they. How are they doing then on that front?

[Arthur Brooks]

The problem is that it's kind of stuck and it doesn't actually do good. For anybody to say that it's not a problem. The government means it's hard. It's hard policy. Because, you know, I was trained as an economist, and I know it's a hard problem, but when it looks like you're actually not paying attention to it, that creates rage. And that's a big problem politically. But for people who are not really troubled by that, people who are above that basic level of just eliminating happiness, a lot of people watching the show, that is actually a pretty interesting Science as well, because it turns out we know how to buy happiness and almost everybody's doing it wrong.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Okay, tell me. I want to know.

[Arthur Brooks]

What's the secret?

[Katie Kramer]

What are we.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

If you have some money.

[Steve Liesman]

Yeah.

[Arthur Brooks]

If you've got some money, can you.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Buy a modicum of happiness?

[Arthur Brooks]

You can, because there's five things that you can do. Nature, Mother Nature wants you to do one thing, and your impulses tell you to do the one thing that won't buy happiness, which is getting stuff. So people get a little bit above the parapet, they're starting to make a little bit more money, and they get a second, second watch, whatever it is, a nicer car, et cetera, et cetera. And then you get into this hedonic adaptation where it's like, more, more, more, more.

[Contessa Brewer]

Keeping up with the Joneses.

[Arthur Brooks]

But even on steroids, stuff won't do it. Stuff won't do it. We all know that the new car smell fades. We adapt. That's what we do to stuff. But there's four other things that you can do, and they all buy happiness. Number one is buying experiences with people you love. So that's why a vacation with people you love, that's why if you're going to get a beach house, not for the house, buy the beach house as an attraction, as a magnet for the people that you love to spend time with them. That's why an expensive vacation to Disney, for example, is really, really great and meaningful and wonderful. If you're with the people that you love and you're making memories, that's number one.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Okay.

[Arthur Brooks]

Number two is buying time. And buying time means paying other people to do things so that you have more free time to cut your yard, to clean your house, whatever it happens to be. But you got to spend your time doing something personally edifying or with people that you love. Scrolling social media doesn't count. Watching TV doesn't count. Don't waste the time that you're buying. Be super purposive about it. That will buy happiness.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Okay. But by the way, there's some people I know that actually love to garden.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah, for sure.

[Steve Liesman]

Yeah.

[Arthur Brooks]

So you need to spend your time because that's actually very productive leisure. If you're doing something that creates value that you love, you should absolutely do that.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Some people who do gardening, do it by themselves.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah, no, that's edifying. That's like praying for them. That's a meditative activity.

[Contessa Brewer]

Meditation. You could do anything, any activity, for sure.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I'm waiting for number three. I'm assuming one of These is going to be to give away money.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah, yeah, that's number three. Number three is giving your money away, but you have to give it to things that you love. A lot of people who are very rich, they don't like philanthropy because they don't have very much interest in the things that they're expected to give money to. You live in Omaha, and you have to join the board of the Omaha Something Hospital, because that's what. To be a member, a functioning of Omaha.

[Contessa Brewer]

Because all the things you're talking about are things that I think Warren Buffett figured out.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah, that's right.

[Contessa Brewer]

Well, he actually lives a modest life, doesn't speak about that.

[Arthur Brooks]

And he gave his money to Bill Gates because Bill Gates is super good at philanthropy. And he's like, I'm not good at this. I'm good at investing. If philanthropy is not my thing, I'm going to give it to the expert in philanthropy. And that gave him more joy. You got to find something you're really, really passionate about. My wife and I, Esther and I are very passionate about Catholic education. Catholic education. We give almost all of our philanthropy, which is 10% of our money.

[Strawberry Me Coach]

Tithe.

[Arthur Brooks]

We tithe. I asked my dad that, by the way, very religious.

[Contessa Brewer]

He was supposed to tithe 10% before or after.

[Arthur Brooks]

That's how I asked my dad, because my dad was always a serious tithe. I said, dad, he has a PhD in biostats, so he was a very sophisticated guy. He said, do you tithe before or after taxes? And he said, before. I said, what? I'm an economist. After dad, why? And he said, just in case.

[Contessa Brewer]

Because God's watching.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I have one other related giving question. So you give to Catholic charities?

[Arthur Brooks]

I give to. Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Do you feel bad when people come to you and ask you for money that are outside of the charities that you care most about? Do you give a little bit just to sort of be in that community or not or whatever it is? Or do you say, I know some people who are very good about saying no, and they say, I'm all in on this one thing. And that's what. That's what our family does. We don't do anything else.

[Arthur Brooks]

Right.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And they feel very good about sort of having these walls. And then I know other people who have something that they care about, but then they end up getting called by 12 other friends and this and that and the people in their community, and they feel that they have to give.

[Steve Liesman]

Right.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But I don't think those people love giving. They don't love those Contexts you got to.

[Arthur Brooks]

So I will give to that I'm not super passionate about to actually pal up with people I love, people I really care about. So to pal up, that's a really important thing to do.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But is that like buying friendship?

[Arthur Brooks]

No, it isn't.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

My wife and I had that conversation once.

[Arthur Brooks]

No, for sure. But you gotta. When you're collaborating with people that you trust and like. So one of my buddies comes to me and he says, let's give to the Leukemia Lymphoma association or something like that. And it's not a thing necessarily for me, but I like him. I like him, and I want to support a thing that he likes. The other thing is, you made a very important point. What gives more satisfaction? Throwing dollars out of a helicopter, you know, $100 here, $100 there. Or turn the whole dial on one person. I have data that actually show that when you turn the dial on one whole person, this is the book of Sanhedrin in the Talmud. Much more meaningful that says, in each person is the whole world. And when I figured that out, my wife actually called me on it. She said, let's do something big for one person. I said, like what? She said, let's adopt a baby. And I'm like, it's only a book. And so we did.

[Contessa Brewer]

You did.

[Arthur Brooks]

You did. That was a long time ago. Now she's 22. She's a second lieutenant in the U.S. marine Corps.

[Contessa Brewer]

And is that the most satisfying?

[Arthur Brooks]

It's the most amazing experience in your life. Game changer. Complete game changer. I mean, it was the most amazing thing, you know, from an orphanage in China. It was the most amazing thing. So this is the key. Well, there's one left.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

There's one more we're missing.

[Arthur Brooks]

Save your money. Saving money brings enormous satisfaction because you.

[Contessa Brewer]

Don'T have to worry about things. It puts off the fear, the panic.

[Arthur Brooks]

It's the future we live. We want progress. We want progress. That's the reason that you shouldn't borrow money if you can avoid it. Consumer debt is idiocy for happiness. You should never run a credit card balance if you can possibly avoid it. I mean, some people, it's like, I get it. You should. That's car Debt is insane for happiness. It's horrible. The only kind of debt that doesn't lower your happiness is a mortgage, because that's actually more progress than rent. We want to make progress. And so debt is bad, is poison for happiness. And saving is actually really, really good for it. It's also intergenerational wealth.

[Andy Richter]

Yeah.

[Contessa Brewer]

You can take care of your family. You can take care of anybody who comes along if problems happen.

[Arthur Brooks]

So that's how to do it.

[Contessa Brewer]

That's pretty simple.

[Arthur Brooks]

That's the formula.

[Contessa Brewer]

That's pretty good.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Money and happiness.

[Arthur Brooks]

Exactly right. And we need lots of happiness. It's the end of the year.

[Contessa Brewer]

So what makes for the best Christmas gifts? I guess you go back to experiences. You go back to time with people.

[Arthur Brooks]

That's the best thing to do. And when we figured that out, I started seeing the data and I tried to live it that way. I would go to my kids and I would say, what do you want that we can actually do? And I would go alone away with each one of my kids every year when they were little. I strongly recommend that one wanted to go hunting every year. Hunting, hunting. I'm from Seattle. Right. And now, you know, he became a sniper in the Marines. So that was like there was something useful there. There was something really useful there, for sure.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah.

[Arthur Brooks]

Another one wanted to come up to New York every year and go to the opera. He was really, really into the Metropolitan Opera. We'd go to the opera, we'd see operas every year. And my little girl, she always wanted to go to these amusement parks. And so I would do one thing like that. That was a Christmas gift. Strong recommend because that's number two.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Experiences.

[Arthur Brooks]

Experiences with people you love.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Arthur, thank you for the experience that we love, which is seeing you.

[Arthur Brooks]

I love it, too. Thanks so much.

[Contessa Brewer]

Thank you for coming.

[Arthur Brooks]

Happy holidays.

[Contessa Brewer]

You too.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Happy holidays.

[Katie Kramer]

We'll be right back.

[Andy Richter]

Hi there, it's Andy Richter, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast, the three Questions with Andy Richter. Each week I invite friends, comedians, actors and musicians to discuss these three questions. Where do you come from, where are you going, and what have you learned? New episodes are out every Tuesday with guests like Julie Bowe and Ted Danson, Tig Notaro, Will Arnett, Phoebe Bridgers, and more. You can also tune in for my weekly Andy Richter call in show episodes where me and a special guest invite callers to weigh in on topics like dating, disasters, bad teachers, and lots more. Listen to the three Questions with Andy Richter wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Katie Kramer]

That is Squawk Pod for today, this day after Christmas 2025. Thanks for listening. Squawkbox is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Please tune in weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 Eastern or get the best of our TV show right into your ears when you follow Squawk Pod. Wherever you get your podcasts, we'll meet you right back here on Monday. Have a great weekend.

[Arthur Brooks]

We are clear. Thanks guys.

[Andy Richter]

Hi there, it's Andy Richter, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast, the three Questions with Andy Richter. Each week I invite friends, comedians, actors and musicians to discuss these three where do you come from, where are you going, and what have you learned? New episodes are out every Tuesday with guests like Julie Bowe and Ted Danson, Tig Notaro, Will Arnett, Phoebe Bridgers and more. You can also tune in for my weekly Andy Richter Call in Show episodes, where me and a special guest invite callers to weigh in on topics like dating, disasters, bad teachers, and lots more. Listen to the three Questions with Andy Richter wherever you get your podcasts.