Investigating the Federal Reserve: Kevin Hassett & Sen. Mark Warner 1/12/26

Summary

Podcast Summary: Squawk Pod

Episode: Investigating the Federal Reserve: Kevin Hassett & Sen. Mark Warner
Date: January 12, 2026
Hosts: Joe Kernen, Becky Quick, Andrew Ross Sorkin

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Overview

This Squawk Pod episode centers on the unprecedented criminal investigation into Federal Reserve Chair Jay Powell, focusing on allegations of perjury about Fed headquarters renovations and the wider implications for Fed independence, monetary policy, and American governance. The podcast features in-depth discussions with National Economic Council Director Kevin Hassett, who is a leading candidate to succeed Powell, and Senator Mark Warner, who sits on the Senate Banking Committee tasked with confirming the next Fed Chair. Broader political themes—ranging from potential “lawfare” against government officials, to U.S. foreign interventions, to heated debates over immigration and economic policy—set the backdrop for urgent concerns about the rule of law and the politicization of key American institutions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The DOJ Investigation into Jay Powell

• Allegations: The Department of Justice has subpoenaed the Federal Reserve concerning Powell’s congressional testimony on cost overruns and possible "luxury items" in the HQ renovation.
• Political Context: President Trump has long been publicly critical of Powell and the perceived independence of the Fed.
• Key Details:
  • The case is being run out of the U.S. attorney’s office for D.C., headed by Trump ally Jeanine Pirro.
  • White House denies direct involvement, but suspicions abound regarding political motivation.
  • Source of Congressional referral: Rep. Anna Paulina Luna, who has publicly taken credit for referring Powell to DOJ (06:16).

Notable Quotes

• Becky Quick (03:55): "Powell said the investigation is just a pretext."
• Sen. Mark Warner (42:38): “Going after the independence of the Fed… good for the American economy? It’s not going to bring prices down. And does anybody believe that this is anything other than political retribution?”
• Kevin Hassett (01:33 | 27:00): “I respect the independence of the Fed and the independence of the Justice Department. And we’ll see how it goes.”
• Andrew Ross Sorkin (07:39): “Will he be able…any communications between the President…and the Attorney General on this?”

Timestamps:

• Discussion of grand jury subpoenas and political context: 02:39–04:50
• Debate over Powell’s congressional testimony and possible perjury: 05:25–07:03
• Public/White House reaction, quotes from Trump: 07:03–08:22
• Legal mechanics of indictment and Congress’ limited role: 08:56–09:51

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2. Independence of the Federal Reserve and “Lawfare”

• Concerns: Multiple panelists and guests worry that this move constitutes an assault on the time-honored independence of U.S. monetary policy.
• “Lawfare” Theme: Discussion expands to broader concerns about using legal processes (or threats thereof) as political weapons—against presidents, advisors, Fed officials, etc.
• Dissent Within GOP: Noted that Republican Sen. Thom Tillis is refusing to confirm any new Fed chair until these issues are resolved (06:45).

Notable Quotes

• Andrew Ross Sorkin (16:10): “You have to at least raise the question about what’s happening.”
• Eamonn Javers (16:24): “You can throw around lawfare all you want, but in terms of what’s actually proceeded, you’re at zero still for who has actually been arrested under your lawfare scenario.”

Timestamps:

• "Lawfare" and independence of institutions: 13:49–17:09
• Reactions and market implications: 16:10–16:24

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3. Next Fed Chair: Candidates, Politics, and Fed Policy

• Kevin Hassett’s Stance: Hassett, a main candidate for Fed Chair, respects the independence of both the DOJ and the Fed but emphasizes the need for introspection at the central bank regarding past inflation.
• Policy Debates:
  • Hassett and panelists discuss the Fed’s handling of inflation, rate-raising timing, and the implication that fiscal stimulus and external shocks played major roles.
  • Ongoing tension between Trump’s calls for lower interest rates versus critiques that Fed may not have raised rates soon enough post-COVID.

Notable Quotes

• Kevin Hassett (28:48): “We let inflation get out of control… The economy is booming right now because of Trump’s policies, not because of the Fed.”
• On his possible appointment: (35:00) “What really happens with my life here in the White House is I come in every day and I do my job… If my job changes, then I’ll start doing some other job.”

Timestamps:

• Kevin Hassett segment begin: 26:09
• Hassett on Fed independence and inquiry: 27:00–27:46
• Institutional critiques and inflation analysis: 28:07–29:28
• On personal career speculation: 35:00–35:20

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4. Senator Mark Warner on Fed Independence, Venezuela, Immigration

• Fed Independence: Warner decries what he sees as political retribution against Powell and attacks on the Fed’s independence.
• Venezuelan Policy and U.S. Interventions: Warner lays out skepticism about long-term U.S. involvement off Venezuela’s coast, questions cost and strategy, discusses similar interventions (38:07–39:25).
• Immigration Enforcement: Warner charges that ICE enforcement under Trump has moved beyond targeting criminals, into sweeping up people “who have violated no laws at all,” citing data from Virginia ICE facilities (47:19–48:31).
• On Price Controls: Warner expresses skepticism about capping credit card interest rates and “arbitrary market restrictions,” but is open to targeted temporary helps (44:43–45:29).

Notable Quotes

• Mark Warner (42:13): “Investigation, fine. But he’s talking about an indictment. And Trump saying he didn’t know about this—two weeks ago he said Powell was going to get indicted. We saw it happen.”
• On ICE enforcement: (48:04) “75% of the people who’ve been picked up in Virginia by ICE… have violated no laws at all. That is not what the President said. We’re going to get the criminals off the street.”
• On border security: (49:30) “Do I think we ought to not have a fully open border? Absolutely.”

Timestamps:

• Warner on Fed independence and lawfare: 42:13–43:34
• Warner on Venezuela, foreign interventions and global policy: 38:07–41:26
• Immigration and ICE enforcement: 47:19–49:53

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Becky Quick (18:04): “A Federal Reserve official told me last night that Jay Powell is resolute and confident. That’s how they’re describing his state of mind… This confrontation is not going to end anytime soon with Powell capitulating here.”
• Eamonn Javers (11:51): "But you know what happens when you assume—makes an ass out of you and me."
• Sen. Mark Warner (49:53): “The idea that we’re going to send in these ICE agents… ICE used to take five to six months to get trained. They’ve now lowered the training period to 47 days. Why 47 days? Because Donald Trump’s the 47th president. Tell me that’s a rational approach.”
• Andrew Ross Sorkin (07:03, quoting Trump): “I don't know anything about it, but he's certainly not very good at the Fed and he’s not very good at building buildings.”

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Critical rundown of Powell investigation & political context: 02:39–09:51
• Discussion of Fed independence, lawfare, and market reactions: 13:49–18:24
• Kevin Hassett on Fed, legal process, and macroeconomic outlook: 26:09–35:20
• Senator Warner on Fed, foreign policy, price controls, and immigration: 35:31–52:32

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Tone and Style

The conversation remains intense and direct, with moments of levity and heated disagreement, especially between partisan perspectives. The hosts balance rapid-fire questioning and contextual insights with sharp interjections and editorial color from their guests.

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Conclusion

This episode provides an illuminating, sometimes contentious, but always informative overview of a pivotal moment for the Fed and broader U.S. governance. The criminal probe into Jay Powell acts as a lightning rod for debates about law, politics, independence of economic institutions, and the proper boundaries between the White House and agencies. The interviews with Kevin Hassett and Mark Warner contextualize the day’s headlines within wider policy and philosophical battles currently playing out across government and industry.

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For listeners wanting a snapshot of today’s top headlines and their far-reaching implications for the economy, law, and politics, this episode is essential.

Transcript

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[Becky Quick]

Bring in show music, please.

[Joe Kernan]

Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod, a potential criminal investigation into Federal Reserve Chair Jay Powell. Somewhat about cost overruns on the renovations at Fed hq, maybe about his relationship with the president. Our Eamonn Javers reporting.

[Becky Quick]

It doesn't seem like this confrontation is going to end anytime soon with Powell capitulating here.

[Joe Kernan]

And the man who may get Jay Powell's job, Kevin Hassett, now a top economic adviser to President Trump.

[Kevin Hassett]

I respect the independence of the Fed and the independence of the Justice Department. And we'll see how it goes on.

[Joe Kernan]

The inquiry and where economic and monetary policy go from here.

[Kevin Hassett]

What really happens with my life here in the White House is I come in every day and I do my job and I'll do that tomorrow. I'm doing it today.

[Joe Kernan]

Plus, Democratic Senator Mark Warner, he's on the committee that will confirm the next Fed chair. He weighs in on this headline and other issues from Venezuelan oil to the immigration battles taking place in our cities.

[Mark Warner]

Secure the border. Absolutely. Have massed ICE agents picking up moms dropping off kids or folks going to work. I don't think that's what the American people signed up for. And now we've got this split in city after city across America.

[Joe Kernan]

It is Monday, January 12, 2026. Squawkpod begins right now.

[Kevin Hassett]

Stand Becky by in 3, 2, 1.

[Becky Quick]

Q, please.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Squawk Box right here on cnbc. We are live from the NASDAQ market site in Times Square. I'm Becky Quick along with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorkin.

[Commercial Narrator]

It is the story of the morning, the day and we'll see whether it's the story of the week. The Trump administration now threatening to indict Powell over comments to Congress about the Fed's renovation project. Eamon Javits is in Washington this morning with the latest. Good morning to you, Eamonn.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah, good morning, Andrew. Federal Reserve Chairman Jay Powell struck a defiant tone in an unprecedented video statement on Sunday night revealing that the Department of Justice had served the Federal Reserve with grand jury subpoenas in an ongoing and previously unknown criminal investigation. Powell said the subpoenas were served Friday after and relate to his testimony about the Federal Reserve's building construction project before the Senate Banking Committee last June. Now, President Trump has been deeply critical of Powell over the past year and has intently scrutinized cost overruns at the Fed's construction project. But Powell said the investigation is just a pretext.

[Eamonn Javers]

The threat of criminal charges is a.

[Mark Warner]

Consequence of the Federal Reserve setting interest rates based on our best assessment of.

[Eamonn Javers]

What will serve the public, rather than following the preferences of the president, whether the Fed will be able to continue to set interest rates based on evidence.

[Mark Warner]

And economic conditions, or whether instead monetary.

[Eamonn Javers]

Policy will be directed by political pressure or intimidation.

[Becky Quick]

A Department of justice spokesman told CNBC on Sunday that the attorney General has instructed her U.S. attorneys to prioritize investigating any abuse of taxpayer dollars. Now, a source familiar with the investigation confirmed to CNBC last night that it is being run out of the U.S. attorney's office for the District of Columbia, which is run by U.S. attorney Jeanine Pirro, a longtime political ally of President Trump. White House Press secretary Caroline Levitt declined to comment last night. Powell's term as chairman ends in May, and President Trump has been interviewing candidates to take his place. It's not clear exactly what the Department of Justice may be investigating here, but President Trump's close political ally, FHFA Director Bill Pulte, as early as last summer accused Powell of lying to Congress with his characterizations of the construction effort. Guys, a lot of questions here. Not, not as many answers this morning.

[Commercial Narrator]

Back over to you, Eamon, just on, on the merits of it and we can get into everything else about it because obviously the markets are reacting to it. And I think you're seeing a lot of reaction even from some Republicans, though not many. If you actually go back and look at his testimony, is there anything in it that is suggestive that he was not truthful? And is there anybody in Congress that has, beyond Bill Pulte, who's not in Congress but is obviously a part of this administration, is there anybody in Congress who's, who's ever mentioned this before, ever.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah, look, so a couple of things I think, you know, it's going to turn on the question of, you know, how did Powell describe the luxury items, quote unquote, that are involved in this construction project? We'll see exactly what the DOJ is investigating here, but it'll, I think, be around his language about whether there are special sets of elevators, whether there's a special lunchroom, you know, all that kind of thing, you know, what type of marble is being used and whether those things are materially false. The challenge for the DOJ is that they're going to have to prove that it was a material discrepancy, first of all, and then it was done sort of with knowledge of foresight. And I think those things will be relatively high bars for them. And the danger here for the Department of Justice is they investigate here and they end up coming up empty. That could cause them two problems. One, public embarrassment.

[Eamonn Javers]

Two, the person in Congress in the.

[Becky Quick]

United States could be very angry.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Tom Tillis.

[Eamonn Javers]

Not Tom, no. He commented on it, but the person who forwarded this, and she's taking credit for it. Representative ANNA Paulina Luna, I have formally referred Rome Powell to the DOJ for criminal investigation. And that was back in July when she did that with a letter. So that is the person that. And then she says she was gratified yesterday by this. So they're obviously that person.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What I was going to bring up.

[Eamonn Javers]

Was, Tom, I saw what he said.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The Republican senator who says that at this point he's put out a statement. If there were any remaining doubt about whether advisers within the Trump administration are actively pushing to end the independence of the Federal Reserve, there should be none. Now that's. He says he's going to oppose the confirmation of any nominee for the Fed, including the upcoming Fed chair vacancy, till it's resolved.

[Commercial Narrator]

The other, the other big piece is actually what Trump has said. And Eamonn, I want to go over that with you, because I don't know whether you've seen what he said or whether you believe in this case that what he's saying is accurate. He says the following. He says, I don't know anything about it, but he's certainly not very good at the Fed and he's not very good at building buildings. This is what he told NBC News last night. He went on to say, I wouldn't even when asked about whether this was about interest rates, I wouldn't even think of doing it that way. What should pressure him is the fact that rates are far too high. That's the only pressure he's got.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah, I mean, so one of the questions for Powell will. Will be. Will he be able to get, in the course of his defense effort, any communications between the President of the United States and the Attorney General on this? That often is very protected information, and he might not be able to get to it. I don't know the legality of that in terms of the discovery process here, but that should. That may be privileged, but I think Powell's attorneys will certainly weigh in on this and say that this is being directed by the President. They'll look for evidence that it was directed by the President. We've seen the president issue orders to Pam Bondi before. He's done it publicly in terms of, you know, things that he's posted on social media. So did he do that in this case? That'll be one of those.

[Eamonn Javers]

He's going to try for cover. Amy, this is what Representative Luna said. I laid out in detail how Jerome Powell lied under oath to Congress and misrepresented facts. And I did this to administration officials, including Russ Vogt, the OMB director. Unelected bureaucrats do not get a free pass. This is exactly why oversight exists. And I am thankful the DOJ is taking this seriously. No one is above the law. So, you know, Trump has can say, I don't know what's going on here, and point to. And that's the way that they would orchestrate it.

[Becky Quick]

You can imagine the reality. Legally, though, the reality is that Congress doesn't matter here. I mean, this is a grand jury investigation. So the way it works is the grant. The prosecutors will discover evidence with these subpoenas. They'll present that to the grand jury. If they feel like they have enough evidence to indict on criminal charges, they'll present that to the grand jury. If the grand jury hands down an indictment, the DOJ will indict Jay Powell. Congress is not involved in this process at all. So, I mean, it matters to the extent that there's political support for it, but they can't stop it, right? They can't stop it.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Once it's put out there, they can't stop it.

[Becky Quick]

So, ultimately, you can have all the statements that. You can have all the statements that you want, but the reality is, can the DOJ find enough evidence here to indict? If they indict, can they prove their case in court, in front of a jury and in front of a judge? And that's the risk here, is that they'll end up bringing a case that they can't actually, you know, get a conviction on.

[Commercial Narrator]

Oh, and then the other question, though, we've talked for a long time about business, business executives who've been on the other side of Trump. I got a whole bunch of emails and texts from people last night, some of whom said, is this the moment that effectively, is this the moment that I'm supposed to raise my hand? I mean, we've talked about sort of where there are red lines, you know, and by the way, there have been lots of red lines densely that have been crossed over the past.

[Eamonn Javers]

Sounds like it's eight months, right?

[Mark Warner]

We'll see.

[Eamonn Javers]

I still think the system works. And we'll see. We'll see how this. We'll see how this proceeds. But.

[Becky Quick]

Andrew, you've talked to a lot of CEOs. I've talked to a lot of CEOs about this. Maybe probably not as many as you have, but all the CEOs I've talked to, off the record, on background, in private, say, you know, we're not raising our hands to object to the president because we feel that with his psychology, with the way the president responds, he'll respond badly to any direct confrontation. And so what we want to do is work around the edges, suggest alternatives, work in private, try to reach out to Susie Wiles or other figures inside the administration to try to adjust things. But they're very wary of confronting the president directly.

[Commercial Narrator]

But the question is, on something like.

[Becky Quick]

This, we have to make things worse and there's risk for them, for their.

[Commercial Narrator]

Whether there needs to be an effort, whether there deserves to be an effort, should be an effort to try to bring the temperature down and effectively have the White House effectively end such an investigation. If you think that they would do such a thing or, you know, not prosecute, that becomes the question.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But can they?

[Commercial Narrator]

Well, the White House can, because the White House is likely involved to a large degree in this.

[Eamonn Javers]

That's. You're taking that a step, too. We should say the White House is.

[Becky Quick]

Doing baseline in terms of.

[Eamonn Javers]

Yeah, you can't. I mean, to get to that point, you have to assume the White House did it in the first place. If they put it on, they could take it off. But you know, they're going to argue that they didn't put it on and that no one's above the law.

[Commercial Narrator]

Well, you have to assume that Pirro is somehow completely independent of the president. That's what you have to assume.

[Eamonn Javers]

You can assume that. But you know what happens when you assume makes an ass out of you and me.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

If they're taking a flyer on this without backing from the White House. That's a, that's an extreme move.

[Eamonn Javers]

So I've actually, I haven't done this before, but I've actually asked for El? Erian to come on the show because did you see his comments? Did you see El? Erian's comments?

[Commercial Narrator]

Yes. I didn't, I thought that was, I thought it was bizarre.

[Eamonn Javers]

But just in thinking of what the next chairman, prospective chairman thinks, seeing this happen. But El? Erian says I called for Powell to resign, I don't know, a couple months ago because the institution itself, the institution's independence was, I guess, fragile because of some of the underlying flaws in the Powell Fed. What is required now is a person nominated to replace the chair be committed to implementing the reforms necessary to restore the effectiveness of the world's most powerful.

[Commercial Narrator]

So you know, you know how much I love Mohammad. I vehemently disagree with why not?

[Eamonn Javers]

It doesn't mean we can't have him on. To have him oh, we should to have him air his, his opinion.

[Commercial Narrator]

Of course, I'm just suggesting that the argument that he was making and he can make it on our air, but the argument that he made a couple months ago was effectively take this chess piece for the president off the table as a way to protect the Federal Reserve. And that unto itself is a demonstration of just how not independent the Federal Reserve ultimately is, because it effectively, it effectively says I am basically giving in to a president that is going to either try to fire me, sue me.

[Eamonn Javers]

Put me in Jay, you're paraphrasing what El? Erian meant at the time, that one of the the guy who's now in the lead to take over for Jay Powell has expressed serious doubts about a lot of underlying things going on at the Federal Reserve right now.

[Commercial Narrator]

I have more on that. I'm now I'm back on the Kevin Hassett, I know you were thinking about Warsh.

[Eamonn Javers]

I think you want oh, you think Cassidy's going to get. But I'm just saying that Warsh has expressed a lot of oh, I know. And the crazy thing for me is that the problem I have with Powell isn't that he didn't raise that he didn't lower rates. It's that he didn't raise rates. It's the opposite of what the president's problem is. And as much as we were complimenting Powell last week on the state of the economy right now, the GDP inflation might be okay, labor might be okay. It looks like he's hit a sweet spot with Monetary policy, but it still doesn't get around the original sin of the inflation that we had and allowing that to get out of hand because a lot of the affordability issues that we have right now that people, the reason people don't feel good about the economy is because of not raising rates.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But that also suggests, though, that the Federal Reserve would have had the power to take control of issues during COVID that were largely supply chain related.

[Eamonn Javers]

That's a, that's a, that's a different narrative. Most people think that the amount of stimulus that the amount of, combined with.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The supply chain, which he also did not control, the Fed has a, has a lever that is not perfectly.

[Eamonn Javers]

That's back to arguing what caused the inflation, whether it was.

[Commercial Narrator]

I think there's a bigger issue here this morning, which is not necessarily about supply chains or whether he's done a good or bad job.

[Eamonn Javers]

I know where you're going, and I.

[Commercial Narrator]

Agree it's effectively about lawfare.

[Eamonn Javers]

I.

[Commercial Narrator]

That's the conversation in a country where we think, and especially around business, you know, here we're a business law, the law matters. And when you see an administration and look, I recognize that this president thinks that he was unfairly, that he was unfairly targeted and that lawfare was used against him. But there's a level at which you cannot just continue this kind of lawfare against everybody. And we've seen it against, and you may disagree with it, but there was the law firms, there are universities, there are media companies, there's now the Fed chair, there's Lisa Cook, there's Jim, Jim Comey. I mean, go through the list and at some point you have to say, you know, and I'm surprised, I know we saw one Republican sort of step out last night and say that he has a problem with this, but you have to at least raise the question about what's happening.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I think you're reaching that point. And for Jay Powell to come out and say this, I mean, he's a measured guy. He has taken a lot of flack, he has taken a lot of incoming. For him to say that he's reached the point where he's going to come out and say something about this.

[Eamonn Javers]

That is an issue because Elon Musk retweeted something said does seem low. It was a tweet from someone. Number of arrests under Republicans for The Russian collusion hoax 0. Mar? A Lago 0. Biden auto pin 0. Jeffrey Epstein 0. Doge findings 0. Covid Benghazi, 0. Ukraine impeachment hoax 0. And he's got zero for how many arrests there have been under Trump, and then he's got Republicans arrested under the Biden administration and there's a list that's that long. So that was the point that they were making. You can throw around lawfare all you want, but in terms of what's actually proceeded, you're at zero still for who has actually been arrested under your Lawfare scenario that you just gave Lisa Cook. Look, we all know that these look like pretexts.

[Commercial Narrator]

Was Jim Comey not arrested?

[Eamonn Javers]

He's indicted. Yeah.

[Commercial Narrator]

And what was that list of?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It's tell us to go through the.

[Eamonn Javers]

I don't know which thing he would fall under on that one. I guess it would be the Russia.

[Commercial Narrator]

I'm just, I'm just suggesting, I think that right now in America, people are looking at what's happening specifically at this situation. By the way, you could add in all the pardons. I mean, on the other end of things, there's been a series of pardons, whether it's about, you know, CZ of Binance or. I mean, so many things within, especially around business where, where people have been indicted, they have been prosecuted, and they have been found guilty by a court and jurors. And for whatever reason, this administration has undone those and then decided that there are people who, they have been very public about who they think of as their enemies and gone after.

[Eamonn Javers]

Tim Comey wasn't arrested. He was arraigned.

[Becky Quick]

Hey, guys, one quick, one quick additional piece of reporting here.

[Eamonn Javers]

Yeah.

[Becky Quick]

Just a Federal Reserve official told me last night, in terms of this call from Mohamed El Erian to. For Powell to resign, that doesn't seem likely. A Federal Reserve official told me last night that Jay Powell is resolute and confident. That's how they're describing his state of mind last night. So it doesn't seem like this confrontation is going to end anytime soon with Powell capitulating here.

[Eamonn Javers]

I would like. I'm still interested and I agree with what the chairman said about pretext and everything else, but I still would like to see what they're pointing to in terms of the testimony about that building that supposedly. And I still don't know how you spent. I don't know how. I mean, the nicest house in the world is worth how much? I mean, palaces are worth how much, Amon, are we at right now on this refurbishment? I mean, it's.

[Becky Quick]

I mean, I think it's billions. I have to go back.

[Eamonn Javers]

Oh, it's billions. But is it more?

[Becky Quick]

These things? Look, it's. If you Go down to that construction site, which I've done. It's enormous. I mean, it is a couple of city blocks, right? And it's, it's.

[Eamonn Javers]

But I wonder what are they saying.

[Becky Quick]

Was purge jobs of these buildings?

[Eamonn Javers]

How are they saying, what are they saying? That he, that he perjured himself.

[Becky Quick]

The issue is, and I don't have the exact language in front of me, the issue is the description of any kind of luxury features in this. What congressional critics of Powell have said is that he, he loaded this thing up with a bunch of special features and luxury items for himself and the rest of the board, including special elevators, a special lunchroom, all that kind of thing. And that when he was testifying on Capitol Hill, he minimized if not lied directly about what those were. And so I think that's the language and the testimony that you're going to have to look at. But you know, these buildings are enormous and the cost overruns in government contracting, you know, are unfortunately not surprising. And in this particular case, one of the challenges is these buildings are so close to the Potomac river and they lie in such a low lying area. But apparently one of the big expenses here was the foundational work. And drilling down into the ground in order to make that area watertight underground was a lot more expensive than I think that they had anticipated. But of course, there's a lot of detail in this, in the Federal Reserve's disclosures over the years about exactly what they're doing and why. And it's very, very expensive.

[Commercial Narrator]

Eamon Jabbers, thank you, sir.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Tomorrow night we bring you a special program here on cnbc, Warren Buffett A Life and Legacy. In a series of never before seen interviews, we sit down with Buffett to talk about business and life as he leaves the role of Berkshire Hathaway CEO that he has held for over six decades. We also discuss philanthropy. Buffett has pledged to give over 90% of his $150 billion fortune away, actually over 99%. He shares how his thoughts are about where that money should go and how they have changed over time. And on a personal note, Buffett talks about the biggest influences on his life and including his father and many, many lifelong friends, even offering a little advice. Listen in.

[Eamonn Javers]

Well, no, you should be selective about your friends and hope they aren't too selective about theirs. You should be trading up all the time, but you shouldn't be doing it in a deceptive manner.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

How, I mean, do you do that consciously?

[Eamonn Javers]

I don't think so. I think you're just attracted to people that I was attracted to people who were interested in the same thing. I was to an extent, maybe not.

[Kevin Hassett]

As intense as I was about some things or, you know, they had different.

[Eamonn Javers]

Backgrounds and all kinds of things.

[Mark Warner]

You know, I wouldn't have traded any.

[Eamonn Javers]

Of my friends for anybody else.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I also sat down with his three children for the show. Susie, Howie and Peter Buffett will have the monumental task of giving away their father's fortune one day. Right now, that fortune comes to about $150 billion, but it will continue to compound over time. And by the way, that's after he has already given away more than $50 billion. I started by asking the Buffetts their reaction when their father told them of his plans. What did you think when he said that you three were going to be doing this, doing it together? It had to be unanimous, and you're in charge of all of it. Did you want the job?

[Commercial Narrator]

Nope.

[Eamonn Javers]

Peter really didn't want.

[Mark Warner]

I did not want.

[Eamonn Javers]

And I made that claim. Yeah. Yeah, Peter. And honestly, when I called him up.

[Mark Warner]

And said, you know, I want to opt out, he said, I don't blame you. We'd say that to all of us.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

He actually thinks it's kind of funny that we have to do this and.

[Eamonn Javers]

Understands that it'll put us, obviously, enormous pressure on us.

[Mark Warner]

And so the idea, again, like we've been saying around, what are we going to do?

[Eamonn Javers]

It's like there's too many variables. We have no idea what we're going.

[Mark Warner]

To do do in this moment. And that's great that we all know.

[Eamonn Javers]

And agree that we can't start this. Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Buffett says that he never imagined that he would have to decide what to do with the money. He and his first wife, Susie, assumed that she would outlive him. When she died over 20 years ago, Buffett had to come up with a plan that first involved giving a majority of his annual philanthropic distributions to the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation and evolved to his current plan with the kids in charge. All these years pass, and it started to make more sense to him to just.

[Mark Warner]

It's actually quite complementary.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Hugely.

[Mark Warner]

I mean, the fact that each of us can do the things we're doing has its own different value to it. And so it's better than having three.

[Eamonn Javers]

People who think the same way and.

[Mark Warner]

Want to do the same thing.

[Eamonn Javers]

I mean, it's actually.

[Mark Warner]

It's a better setup.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You can hear much more from the Buffetts and, of course, Warren Buffett. That is tomorrow in Warren Buffett A Life and Legacy. That's right. Here on CNBC at 7pm Eastern.

[Becky Quick]

Cheese will be next.

[Joe Kernan]

Coming up next on Squawk Pod.

[Eamonn Javers]

You know you're one of the two Kevins now, Kevin Hassett joining us from.

[Joe Kernan]

The White House North Lawn, the National Economic Council's Kevin Hassett on rates, jobs, maybe his own. He's on the president's short list to replace Fed Chair Jay Powell.

[Kevin Hassett]

The Fed has amongst the highest interest rates on earth right now and President Trump is frustrated with that. But I don't think that has anything to do with what was going on this weekend.

[Commercial Narrator]

This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] MarketUpdatePodcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts. Before we had ATT Business Wireless coverage, our delivery GPS wasn't the most reliable. Once our driver had to do a 14 point turn to get back on route. A 14 point turn. An influencer even livestream the whole thing. Not good for business. Now with AT&T business wireless routes are updating on the fly and deliveries are on time. And the influencer did get us 53 new followers though.

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[Joe Kernan]

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[Kevin Hassett]

Stand by, Joe. In five seconds.

[Becky Quick]

Four, three, two, one. His mic.

[Eamonn Javers]

Welcome back to SquawkBox. Joining us now, National Economic Council Director Kevin Hassett. Thanks for being with us this morning. Yeah.

[Kevin Hassett]

Hey, Joe.

[Eamonn Javers]

Mr. Director, if I call you Kevin, you could be. I mean, there's more than one Kevin. There's a warsh, there's a hat. You know, you're one of the two Kevin's Now Kevin hassett I don't know. There's plenty of KEVIN we want to talk about the employment report, all kinds of stuff, but it was preempted, I think, our discussion by, as you can imagine, some of the developments that happened yesterday. KEVIN do you have any, what do you know exactly about the testimony that Jay Powell reportedly gave that would be considered perjury or perjurious in terms of that building?

[Kevin Hassett]

I've not been involved in conversations with the Justice Department about that. I've not talked to the Justice Department ahead of them contacting Jay. And so I don't really have anything to add other than I respect the independence of the Fed and the independence of the Justice Department and we'll see how it goes.

[Eamonn Javers]

Well, that's what obviously there's the way that things look, Kevin and you can't, obviously I can't, you know, definitively say that, that this threatens the independence of the Fed. But in terms of optics and what Jay Powell said, I'll just, I'll hang it on what, what, what the chairman said. He said this was nothing more than a pretext to force him or to put pressure on him to do the president's bidding on lowering rates.

[Kevin Hassett]

Well, in the fullness of time, we'll find out whether it looks like a pretext. But right now we've got a building that's got like dramatic cost overruns and, you know, plans for the buildings that look inconsistent with the testimony. But you know, again, I'm not a Justice Department person. I hope everything turns out okay for Jeff.

[Eamonn Javers]

Some of the prospective candidates to replace Chair Powell have been outspoken about problems within the Federal Reserve. Now, there are some people that say look, they should, obviously they should have probably raised rates more quickly and taken away some of the, some of the punch bowl to keep inflation under control. But others say since then. And you would argue, I think, Kevin, that the economy is in good shape from a lot of different viewpoints. I don't know whether the Fed gets any credit, but at worst, at least they didn't stop some of these positive things from happening. Are there, are there deep seated problems at the Fed in your view, institutionally?

[Kevin Hassett]

I think that what I'd like to see at the Fed, regardless of who's Fed chair, is just a little bit more introspection that, you know, we let inflation get out of control. It'd be nice to know how that happened and nice to know that we have a plan to make sure it doesn't happen again. And that kind of stuff I think would be great for the world economy. But, you know, I mean, the bottom line is that the economy is booming right now because of Trump's policies, not because of the Fed. The Fed has amongst the highest interest rates on earth right now. And President Trump is frustrated with that. But I don't think that has anything to do with what was going on this weekend, really.

[Eamonn Javers]

They have been cutting, obviously what we've had. You know, they are in an easing mode at this point. I thought that might have satisfied the President since he's not going to be there that much longer. I know Representative Luna did forward some of the, I guess the information she had about the pejorious claim to the Justice Department and it came from that. But the President, I guess we take it. Do you take him on face value he had nothing to do with putting pressure on the Justice Department to pursue this?

[Kevin Hassett]

You know, I think the President has been very vocal about what he thinks about interest rates. I don't think there's any mystery about that, that he's frustrated that there were big cuts right before the election. He's frustrated that when he came in 2017, that there were big hikes before he's inaugurated. And so he has lots of frustration with what he views as the partisanship of the Fed. But this right here is a legal matter. And again, I've not been briefed on what the Justice Department is thinking and I expect the President has not as well.

[Commercial Narrator]

Kevin, what do you think just about the perception around the rule of law? And the conversation we were having at the table earlier is just that there are lots of Americans who live look at these kinds of things, this instance in particular. But you can go back and look at what happened to some of the law firms and some of the media companies and others that were specifically publicly targeted by the President in the context of saying these are our enemies, these are folks that we don't like, and then efforts to prosecute them and whether that undermines the rule of law and undermines the legitimacy of that Americans feel about the law.

[Kevin Hassett]

You know, there sure is a possibility of that. I think we can all remember that it was 80 something times that, you know, each one really, I think ill advisedly where President Trump was indicted. But the bottom line is that we have law enforcement officials whose job it is to make sure that things are okay, that we don't have fraud like we see in Minnesota. And so, you know, I think that if, you know, I'm sitting here in the White House and somebody says, hey, Justice Department wants to look at all your emails or look at what you've been doing on this or that, then I would welcome the opportunity to show them that I'm fine, you know, and I also think that that's what I would expect of every government employee, that you want government employees to sort of say hip hop. Yeah, Here, here's my proof that there's been nothing like the Minnesota thing going on. And, you know, anyway, so it's part of government to have people look at you inspectors general, and check that what you're doing is completely on the up and up. And I think that it's part of government here and at the Fed as well.

[Eamonn Javers]

Can you just weigh in on the state of the, the labor market in the US Right now? There's, there's so many different cross currents in terms, you know, the immigration policies, the participation rate we had, you know, 50,000 wasn't as, as high as expectations, but the rate fell from 4.6 to 4.4%. Do you consider 4.4% pretty close to full employment at this point, as is?

[Kevin Hassett]

Right. Well, it's changing for two reasons. It's changing because we've got government employees that have been laid off because President Trump is reducing government spending. That's about 250,000 workers this year. That's a lot. And we also have people who are being deported and re domiciled because they were here illegally and working. And I think if you add those two things things, then a good healthy labor report is probably closer to 70,000 than145.00, which is what it was back in the day. And so bottom line, right now I'm looking at the output numbers, and we got GDP now north of 5% in the fourth quarter after 2.4percent the previous quarter. So I think you got to say that Trump policies are really working. They're really working. And they're working because they're on shoring from production, they're causing factories to build. And in the fullness of time, I expect that to cause a job blowout in the second half of next year especially.

[Eamonn Javers]

We were, you know, putting the prediction markets all over our screens last week with washing the, washing the lead over the. Kevin, I know you said a good man. I know you said, I'm really happy with the job I have here. And we'll see what the President thinks about, about where I should be. I actually did see some people saying that you would be sorely missed at the National Economic Council, where you are now as a director at that nice office, which I saw when I was down there visiting the president. And you do. You are a good spokesperson. You couldn't be the same type of spokesperson. Not spokesperson. But you obviously are an advocate for the president's policies. And you can't, you can't do that necessarily. I mean, even coming on today after the developments of yesterday, you'll go anywhere, anytime to defend what the administration.

[Kevin Hassett]

Without talking points, by the way.

[Eamonn Javers]

Yeah, without talking points. So I can see that. To somebody. Do you think you'll end up staying where you are and it's going to be someone else? Do you have any viewpoint on that at all that you can share with us?

[Kevin Hassett]

You know, what really happens with my life here in the White House is I come in every day and I do my job and I'll do that tomorrow. I'm doing it today. And, you know, if my job changes, then I'll start doing some other job. But no, I don't have time to, like, speculate about what might happen in the future because we have so much to do today.

[Eamonn Javers]

All right. We appreciate it. National Economic Director Kevin Hassett, thanks for running.

[Kevin Hassett]

Good to see you.

[Eamonn Javers]

Thanks for being on today. Thanks.

[Joe Kernan]

Next up on Squawk pod, Virginia Senator Mark Warner weighs in on the federal investigation into Fed Chair Powell.

[Mark Warner]

Going after the independence of the first. Not good for the American economy. It's not going to bring prices down. And does anybody believe that this is anything other than political retribution?

[Joe Kernan]

Plus President Trump's proposed cap on credit card rates and the escalating debate around immigration enforcement across the country. A lot going on. We'll be right back.

[Becky Quick]

Foreign.

[Commercial Narrator]

This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions, and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] Market Update podcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts.

[Mark Warner]

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[Joe Kernan]

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[Mark Warner]

On our mobile POS systems took too long.

[Joe Kernan]

Basically a staring contest where everyone loses.

[Mark Warner]

It's crazy what people will say during an awkward silence. Now transactions are done before the silence takes hold. That means I can focus on the task at hand and make an extra sale or two. Sometimes I do miss the bonding time.

[Commercial Narrator]

Sometimes AT&T business Wireless connecting changes everything.

[Joe Kernan]

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[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You're watching Squawk Box right here on cnbc. I'm Becky Quick along with Joe Carnan and Andrew Ross Sorkin.

[Eamonn Javers]

Democrats on Capitol Hill have been calling President Trump's actions in Venezuela into question, including our next guest. Join us now. Senator Mark Warner is the vice chair of the Intelligence Committee. And I've seen a lot of. Welcome. You're in studio. It's, it's good to have you here. I've seen a range of things. Some Democrats, I think, even acknowledge that Maduro gone is probably good.

[Mark Warner]

Maduro gone good thing.

[Eamonn Javers]

But, but I don't know. What, are you concerned this could be a forever war or.

[Mark Warner]

I just got to say this. We got 20% of the fleet off the coast of Venezuela. The aircraft carrier, the Gerald Ford that's supposed to be in the Middle east is off the coast of Venezuela. You know and I know, you know American oil going in. It's going to take a couple years to rebuild Venezuela's oil infrastructure. Is that fleet going to stay there for two years? What are the costs there? Remember the president's promise. It's not going to cost us a dime. Venezuelan oil is going to pay for it all. I don't know if that's happening. Remember, wasn't Donald Trump. I know he's your guy, but I thought he was going to be the peace. Hold it. But he was going to be the peace guy. He was going to be the peace guy.

[Eamonn Javers]

We know that. He's not Andrews.

[Mark Warner]

Let me just say that. My God. Let me just say this.

[Commercial Narrator]

I'm America's guy.

[Mark Warner]

This guy was American. We've had American intervention in Syria, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Nigeria, Venezuela, maybe Greenland, where he would blow up NATO. Did you see the Brits and the Germans are putting troops in Greenland because they want to try to send a message. Message don't attack Denmark, another NATO ally. How is this leading to price stability bringing down cost? And now we got the frontal attack on the independence of the Fed. Come on.

[Eamonn Javers]

Okay, you probably went fordo. And when all that was happening, I said bombing.

[Mark Warner]

I said the bombing was A success. What it was not was complete obliteration of the program. Ok, no, I understand, but joke. The facts matter. The facts matter.

[Eamonn Javers]

But it is.

[Mark Warner]

Iran has got a four to nine month ability to rebuild their nuclear capability.

[Eamonn Javers]

But what's happening in Iran now, a lot of these things, whether he's lucky or whether it's some of the things that he's done, it could be a much better place globally when all of these things happen.

[Mark Warner]

Iranian regime, awful support for the Iranian people. Absolutely. Could we put more cyber activities? Could we try to restore the Internet? Last time America militarily intervened in Iran, the change of government was 1953. CIA overthrew a government there. Most historians would say that led to the Ayatollahs. I would love to see the Ayatollahs gone, but there's got to be a plan. And even with as good as our military is, who are you going to bomb in Iran?

[Eamonn Javers]

But there are good things happening in a lot of different places. Maybe he's lucky, maybe it's in spite of things that the president does. But the world, after a lot of the wars that have been settled, I mean, Democrats have to, obviously. And I don't know whether he's my guy. I'll tell you that Tim Waltz was never going to be my guy. And thank God he's not a heartbeat away from the presidency at this point. Kamala Harris.

[Mark Warner]

I don't think he's binary.

[Eamonn Javers]

It was a binary choice.

[Mark Warner]

Let's just go about where we are today. We got American intervention in six nations. We got our fleet off the the coast of Venezuela.

[Eamonn Javers]

Which one would you not?

[Mark Warner]

I would. I would love. I would love to see the Iranian regime change. Outside pressure.

[Joe Kernan]

Good.

[Mark Warner]

The idea that we're going to take a kinetic action that might actually rally the people back to the regime. And at the meantime, what are we doing? What is he trying to do in Greenland? Does he realize time will tell with Greenland? He said he wanted to go in Greenland because he's concerned about Russia going into Greenland. If he's concerned about Russia, help the Ukraine, Ukrainian people fight back against Russia.

[Eamonn Javers]

Do you think at this point the President has improved on the Biden administration's role for Israel?

[Mark Warner]

I think. Is Israel in a stronger position today? Absolutely. With the Israeli.

[Eamonn Javers]

Is that a good thing?

[Mark Warner]

I think it's absolutely a good thing. And I supported the actions against Hezbollah, against Hamas. But how is the stability of the world today? How are we viewed around the world? What are we doing with the.

[Eamonn Javers]

What about.

[Mark Warner]

You've not mentioned Jay Powell Yet.

[Commercial Narrator]

Yeah, I want to go. I want to go to Jay Powell.

[Mark Warner]

Let's go to.

[Commercial Narrator]

No, I want to understand what your view is of what's happened here, whether it is a pretext, whether it isn't, whether an investigation is a fair thing to do and what the discretion level should be for a prosecutor not to prosecute, but to investigate.

[Mark Warner]

Well, investigation, fine. But he's talking about an indictment. And Trump saying he didn't know about this two weeks ago. He said Powell was going to get indicted. We saw it happen.

[Commercial Narrator]

You don't believe the president saying the truth.

[Eamonn Javers]

Let me answer the question.

[Mark Warner]

Let me answer the question. They tried to go after Lisa Cook that got shot down. They're now trying to go after the independence of the Fed. You guys amongst everybody I talk to should understand. Going after the independence of the Fed.

[Commercial Narrator]

Oh, I do.

[Mark Warner]

Good for the American economy. It's not going to bring prices down. And does anybody believe that this is anything other than political retribution? Jay Powell is a pretty calm, pretty extraordinary.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Where do you think this plays out? Because I keep waiting for the bond markets to kind of show some big reaction. We haven't seen it yet.

[Mark Warner]

I know the question is going to be, is there anything that finally goes too far? When is enough enough? You're starting to see Republicans step up. Thom Tillis on the Banking Committee, I'm on the bank committee, stood up yesterday. We saw five Republicans, four, five Republicans step up against the actions in Venezuela. We saw 17 House Republicans stand up on health care. But at what point is enough enough on all of these fronts at once? I mean, you know, I think our system can absorb only so much shock at the same time. And none of this is about bringing down costs for folks.

[Eamonn Javers]

Well, costs are not. I mean, we want to bring down the rise in costs from where they already are, which a lot of that is obviously owned by the Biden administration. Obviously, if it was 23, let's say.

[Mark Warner]

It'S owned by the Clinton people. How many decades back you want to go now?

[Eamonn Javers]

23% price increases during the Biden administration. So bad, so, so bad that real wages fell, real average weekly wages fell for four years under the Biden administration. That's why people feel like they can't get by right now. Now inflation's still too high.

[Mark Warner]

If you're selling, prices are fine American.

[Eamonn Javers]

I'm not selling that. I'm saying. I'm saying that they're never going to.

[Mark Warner]

Come down if that is your expectation.

[Eamonn Javers]

They're rising more. They're rising more slowly. If you think Affordability. Blaming it on Trump is going to work. It might because he's the guy in the office. But people know when prices went up 22%.

[Mark Warner]

I also know prices on health care. We've seen health care costs go up, we've seen grocery prices go up. We got a housing price. What is what has happened on housing prices?

[Eamonn Javers]

2.7% inflation last the last reading. Not, not 9% or 10% like we had.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Do you think this move to limit credit card interest rates is a sound.

[Mark Warner]

When you're on the banking committee, sound populist.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Is that a way to bring down prices?

[Mark Warner]

I don't know if you can arbitrarily set a cap like that. Is it one year? Is it going to be long term? How does that affect the overall credit availability? Anything we can do to, you know, help bring down interest rates, have at it. But kind of arbitrarily picking and choosing is a little bit messing with the begins that I don't think I've not seen any thoughtful presentation other than a one year freeze, how that would be enacted.

[Eamonn Javers]

I mean caps are bad, right? I mean even as a Democrat where.

[Commercial Narrator]

Look, the President's been talking about capping buybacks, dividends. Where are you on that?

[Mark Warner]

I don't think putting arbitrary market restrictions in place without a fulsome plan makes any sense.

[Eamonn Javers]

What is what without a. So you think there's some cases where you would tell companies not to raise dividends about buybacks?

[Mark Warner]

I'd say, Joe, I actually remember in the old days like five years ago, two years ago when the idea that the American government was going to start taking equity shares in company like intel and that anybody that is going to get a grant from the state, from the Feds, has to put up an equity share. I would have called that socialism. What do you mean?

[Eamonn Javers]

No, you're switching gears again. I'm saying that it is both sides.

[Mark Warner]

Are hybrid now taking equity shares in American companies.

[Eamonn Javers]

You know, with intel it was a grant and people said if you're going to have a grant we might as well own something and be part of it.

[Mark Warner]

Do you think we'll ever get t.

[Eamonn Javers]

It's, it's the less bad we'll ever.

[Mark Warner]

Get TSMC to bring the world's best technology on chip making to America. If we've got a big equity share.

[Eamonn Javers]

In their biggest competitor, we obviously want to. I mean that's what the CHIPS act was about.

[Mark Warner]

Was trying to bring CHIPS act was my bill.

[Eamonn Javers]

Right?

[Commercial Narrator]

Okay, John corner my bill.

[Eamonn Javers]

So we do want to do it.

[Mark Warner]

We do Want to do it.

[Eamonn Javers]

Okay.

[Mark Warner]

And I do think, you know, putting some kind of tail on the back end, but taking it. If the companies have made a ton of dough. But the idea of direct equity share.

[Eamonn Javers]

Come on.

[Commercial Narrator]

I got a different question. There has been a Rorschach test pretty much over the weekend about what took place in Minneapolis and with, with, with, with this ICE agent. Some people watched a shooting and said this was murder. Other people said this was self defense. But even a larger conversation. Here we are having a conversation about lawfare in the context of Jay Powell. I think a lot of people are looking at a question about lawfare in the context of something much broader vis a vis ICE and everything else and what you think this actually means.

[Mark Warner]

Listen, I'm old fashioned. When an American citizen is killed by a law enforcement officer, I think there ought to be a full federal and state investigation.

[Commercial Narrator]

You think there should be a state investigation?

[Mark Warner]

I think the state has got a role to play here. I think there was an investigation and I think we ought to not jump to conclusions until the investigation is over. I will tell you this.

[Commercial Narrator]

What did you see?

[Mark Warner]

I will tell you this. I saw a horrifying video, but I'm not going to, I'm not going to jump to a conclusion until we have an investigation. I'll tell you this. In Virginia, they've got a quota on how many people they got to pick up each week. 75% of the people who've been picked up in Virginia by ice and I've been to the ICE facilities to see the conditions have violated no laws at all. That is not what the President said. We're going to get the criminals off the street. I can't speak to everything in Minneapolis. I can speak to what's happened in Virginia. 75% of the people, no criminal record, secure the border. Absolutely. Have massed ICE agents picking up moms dropping off kids or folks going to work. I don't think that's what the American people signed up for. And now we've got this split in city after city across America. That is not good for the sake of law enforcement. That is not good for the sake of actually having a rational immigration process.

[Eamonn Javers]

You would agree that going city to city to try to disrupt authorities from lawfully executing whatever their job is, disrupt, stop, obstruct what they're trying to do. That's against the law. That's not something that Democrats or anyone should be doing ginning up and telling people to do. Now, I know Trump has deported or sent back 350 400,000 people. Barack Obama, your guy, as you call Trump, my guy. It was 5 million. It was 5 million over eight years. Now we're at 350,000. What changed with Democrats on? I know Biden Let in 12 million. Is it about votes? Why, why didn't these people. Why isn't it a crime to be here? Not that they haven't committed a crime.

[Mark Warner]

The border being as open it was under Biden was one of the reasons Trump got elected. But the idea.

[Eamonn Javers]

So you're glad it's closed now.

[Mark Warner]

Do I think we ought to not have a fully open border? Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Eamonn Javers]

So with the 12 million that came in, what do we do?

[Mark Warner]

The question I have for you is closing the border versus sending out ICE agents across the country to randomly pick up people based on quotas that have committed no crime.

[Eamonn Javers]

How did Obama. How did Obama deport five?

[Commercial Narrator]

Done at the border?

[Mark Warner]

I think it was a lot of that was done at the border.

[Eamonn Javers]

They were sent back.

[Mark Warner]

And the truth is, I don't think the American people signed up for this. Where you see people who are working, there ought to be a path towards legality. We've worked on that. We've screwed that up. Immigration reform for years, boasting sides. But the idea that we're going to send in these ICE agents. By the way, Joe, you realize ICE used to take five to six months to get trained. They've now lowered the training period to 47 days. Why 47 days? Because Donald Trump's the 47th president. Tell me that's a rational approach.

[Eamonn Javers]

I'm not. I'm not. Obviously, I'm not going to take that bait and say it's a rational approach.

[Mark Warner]

But I just joke. You can't pick your facts.

[Commercial Narrator]

Senator.

[Eamonn Javers]

At this point, there's 12 million people that are not supposed to be here. And why did that. Why was the border open? You said, oh, it shouldn't have been. And you kind of.

[Mark Warner]

It was for decades under Bush, Obama, nothing like.

[Eamonn Javers]

Nothing like during the Biden administration, obviously. Why? What was the rationale for that? And I have seen a lot of your comments about people didn't vote for this. I don't think, obviously Democrats didn't have a good idea what people were voting for or you wouldn't have lost the presidency in seven swing states and the Senate and the House. So you don't know what people were voting for. They were voting for this.

[Mark Warner]

And we'll see what happens in 26 when people costs are not going down, health care costs going up, costs, housing. Do you want deflation and American military which is extraordinary what we did in Venezuela. No other military in the world could.

[Eamonn Javers]

I'm glad you can.

[Mark Warner]

But going to keep you off the.

[Eamonn Javers]

You don't want deflation, do you? Do you want an actual fall in prices?

[Mark Warner]

I would actually like to see a stable economy that's predictable without political interference into the fed.

[Eamonn Javers]

How's the 5%?

[Mark Warner]

How's the 5% GDP grab American government? How are the new equity shares?

[Eamonn Javers]

How are the new highs every day in the stock market and a 5% GDP? Is that good enough for you?

[Mark Warner]

I thought this was a market space show, Joe. I didn't think this was like the new Socialist International under the Trump banner.

[Eamonn Javers]

Okay, how's that. How's the 5% GDP and the new highs every day in the market and the 4.4% unemployment and the 2.7% market.

[Mark Warner]

Highs and the 2.7% inflation highs are great.

[Becky Quick]

Where's the.

[Mark Warner]

Economy when you take away the independence of the Fed whether that predictability is going to be. Things are pretty good.

[Eamonn Javers]

Things are pretty good right now though.

[Mark Warner]

You would acknowledge I'd ask you to ask the sailors who are off the coast of Venezuela who who knows how long they're going to be deployed.

[Eamonn Javers]

I think it's. You cannot say that getting rid of Maduro was not a good. You ought to just say that and then just stop.

[Mark Warner]

Getting rid of Maduro is good. Getting rid of the Iranian ayatollah would be good. How you do that is remains a question.

[Eamonn Javers]

Couldn't have done it any better.

[Mark Warner]

So where are you going to bomb next in Iran?

[Eamonn Javers]

Look at me. But unequivocally was a good thing. What happened in Iran.

[Mark Warner]

And maybe getting rid of President said he obliterated Iran's nuclear program. The most public domain.

[Eamonn Javers]

That's the best you got is that.

[Mark Warner]

He didn't get it is set back. They can reconstitute within four to nine months. That's in the public domain.

[Joe Kernan]

Okay.

[Commercial Narrator]

Thank you, sir.

[Eamonn Javers]

Thank you, Senator Mark Warner.

[Joe Kernan]

And that has been a jam packed Squawk Pod for today. Thanks for listening and thanks for starting your week with us. Squawk Box is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Tune in weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 Eastern to get the smartest takes and analysis from our TV show right into your ears. Please follow Squawk Pod wherever you get your podcast podcasts. We'll meet you right back here tomorrow.

[Becky Quick]

We are clear.

[Kevin Hassett]

Thanks, guys.

[Commercial Narrator]

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