← Squawk Pod
Squawk Pod
“It’s Over.” The President with NATO & the Legacy of Elie Wiesel 7/8/26
00:40:51
At the NATO summit in Turkey, President Trump remarked that the memorandum of understanding with Iran is “over.” CNBC’s Steve Sedgwick reports on the ground in Ankara, and Nicholas Burns, former Ambassador to NATO under George W. Bush, discusses the economic pressure points that could be effective in negotiations with Iran. Andrew Ross Sorkin calls into the show with news about Blue Origin: the space company is taking on outside investment for the first time. Plus, it has been a decade since Nobel Peace Prize-winning author and advocate Elie Wiesel’s death. His son Elisha Wiesel discusses carrying on that legacy at the Elie Wiesel Foundation for Humanity and working to keep lessons from the Holocaust fresh in the minds and hearts of people today. Steve Sedgwick - 04:07 Andrew Ross Sorkin - 15:35 Nicholas Burns - 22:36 Elisha Wiesel - 32:53 In this episode: Joe Kernen, @JoeSquawk Andrew Ross Sorkin, @andrewrsorkin Kelly Evans, @KellyCNBC Katie Kramer, @Kramer_Katie
Loading summary
Transcript149 lines
- [00:01]
Nicholas Burns
At Venture Global, we think about what can be done, not what's usually done through innovation. Venture Global is not only building some of the largest energy facilities in the world right here in the United States, but delivering American energy at a fraction of the cost in a fraction of the time. So while others are busy talking, we're busy building. That's Venture Global. That's unstoppable energy.
- [00:30]
Keith Landsford
This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Landsford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and subscribe@schwab.com Market Update podcast or find Schwab Market Update. Wherever you get your podcasts, bring in show music, please.
- [01:04]
Katie Kramer
Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod.
- [01:08]
Donald Trump
As far as I'm concerned, it's over.
- [01:11]
Katie Kramer
President Trump's market moving comments from the NATO summit. Our own Steve Sedgwick is on the ground in Turkey talking to attendees blindsided on this issue.
- [01:21]
Steve Sedgwick
Absolutely. All the leaders here.
- [01:23]
Katie Kramer
The president says the memorandum of understanding with Iran is over, but former ambassador to NATO Nicholas Burns interprets the remarks as a push to inflict damage on Iran's economy.
- [01:34]
Nicholas Burns
That's the pressure point, an evolving picture
- [01:37]
Katie Kramer
in the Middle East.
- [01:38]
Nicholas Burns
I think the option of the administration going back to a full throated air war against Iran probably isn't there. It didn't work the first time. So there are limited options here.
- [01:49]
Katie Kramer
And the late Nobel Peace Prize winner elie Wiesel died 10 years ago today. His son, Alicia Wiesel is carrying on his father's legacy. What we are still learning from the Holocaust.
- [01:59]
Alicia Wiesel
There's so much ignorance in the world and my father spoke about fighting indifference, but he didn't get to see just how much ignorance we're wallowing in now. And now it's time for us to fight ignorance.
- [02:10]
Katie Kramer
Plus, a familiar voice on really, really big news.
- [02:14]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
CO2 management is going to be injecting about $4 billion. Really the first outside money ever beyond Jeff Bezos money into blue origin.
- [02:25]
Katie Kramer
It's Wednesday, July 8, 2026. Squawkpod begins right now.
- [02:31]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
Stand by, Joe, in three, two, one with Mike.
- [02:34]
Nicholas Burns
Hugh
- [02:37]
Joe Kernan
Good morning and welcome to Squawkpox here on cnbc. Live from the NASDAQ market site in Times Square, I'm Joe Kern along with Kelly Evans who just to warn you, she's, you know, she made it One day. This is her second day. But not as smooth taking them. Not as smooth as the first day. Right. You go for the nap that doesn't work. Then can't sleep at night, you know,
- [03:01]
Kelly Evans
because there's this fine 1pm program. I'm doing very well, by the way. And I. So, you know, I thought, well, I'll tough it out and. No, no, no, bad idea.
- [03:12]
Joe Kernan
You want me to do the, you know, how would that change that? I do the heavy lifting. So, you know, please.
- [03:18]
Kelly Evans
Oh, step aside, usa.
- [03:20]
Joe Kernan
If you need, you know, at any time to go a nap or something. Actually, if I talk long enough, you might. U.S. equity futures. At this hour,
- [03:31]
Donald Trump
we were paying 100% of NATO and yet a lot of the countries weren't paying anything. So, Mark, would you say a few words? Absolutely.
- [03:38]
Alicia Wiesel
Thank you so much, Mr. President. Dear Donald, what you did, degrading the nuclear capability, crucial for Israel, the region, for Europe. Degrading the ballistic missile capability of Iran, crucial for Israel, for the region, for you, for the whole world.
- [03:54]
Donald Trump
Interesting. I'm very unhappy with NATO and yet this man is a great leader and he gets it.
- [04:00]
Katie Kramer
Excellent.
- [04:04]
Joe Kernan
Thank you very much.
- [04:07]
Kelly Evans
President Trump says in his view, the memorandum of understanding meant to pause the war between the US And Iran is over. But there is some nuance here. Steve Sedgwick is at the NATO summit in Turkey and joins us now with more. Steve, it's great to see you again, albeit in these circumstances. I caught a little bit of what your report was last hour, but, wow, have we had some fireworks already from this NATO summit.
- [04:30]
Steve Sedgwick
Yeah, it is quite extraordinary. Look, the European leaders were ready for something. They just didn't expect this. There is no doubt about it. Kelly. Joe, I've had the privilege of speaking to 13 NATO leaders, 13 NATO leaders before the president spoke today as well, and not one of them thought that this was on the agenda. Yes, they thought that Spain was going to get it because of their support for the United States during the war and their lack of ability to get to 5% as well. Yes, we thought Greenland might be somewhere. We had a hint of that yesterday, and I can talk about that a little bit later on if you want defense spending. They were ready for that. They ready and have been having huge amounts of spending commitments cited in the last 24 hours in order to head the president off on that. And Iran, they were ready for criticism over Iran, but only over what NATO had and hadn't done to support the president. But they were not ready for what the president had to say. Let's listen to what he had to say about this mou, then I'll explain a bit more detail.
- [05:23]
Donald Trump
I think it's over. I don't want to deal with them anymore. They're scum. You know what scum is? They're scum. They're sick people. They're led by sick people and they're vicious, violent people. And if they had a nuclear weapon, they'd use it. As far as I'm concerned, it's over.
- [05:40]
Steve Sedgwick
Let's go through some of the details. The MoU is a memorandum of understanding. It's called the Islamabad MoU, but it's actually signed perhaps portentously in Versailles with President Macron next to the president on 17 June. It was many, many things, including one, to provide an end to military strikes, two, to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, three, end the blockade, four, have a 60 day extension of the ceasefire, also to potentially take those sanctions off Iranian products, which we know now going back on that came in on 21 June as well. But pretty much this statement from the President. And look, Joe knows better the President than any of us there as well. He does shoot off the hip as well. But the question is, is this now policy that the memorandum of understanding is negated as well? And how have European powers been reacting to it as well? Well, I can tell you that a lot of them were actually thinking, look, we can help out. We can redeem the situation regarding Iran by offering to help Demine to have surveillance, to have radar, to have our big capability in the region. For instance, the French have got the Charles de Gaulle, which is a great big aircraft carrier, not too far off this region as well, willing to the reopening of this vital seaway, which just to remind our viewers, I'm sure they all know by now, but up to 20 million barrels a day of oil, around about 20% of global supply, went through this area before the war. And of course it's just slowed to a trickle during the war and since then has picked up a little bit as well. But blindsided on this issue. Absolutely. All the leaders here, they thought they were going to get a lot of criticism on other fronts and they got that as well. We can talk about that later if you want as well, but on this one, I think they're all running around now working out what to do next.
- [07:18]
Joe Kernan
Steve, I still don't see this as a full fledged return to the kind of hostilities that we saw at the beginning of this conflict. Maybe it will, I don't know but it almost seems like there's room being left on both sides to maybe return to the table. I don't know, and I don't know if that's the right move for the United States. Some people think that, all right, we've seen enough go full, full bore. We went from, I think we referred to some of this stuff as love taps after, you know, we had to do a sort of a tit for tat a couple of times. Iran as well. But it just doesn't seem like it's. It's, you know, full bore, maybe that's coming. Any idea about that?
- [08:08]
Steve Sedgwick
Yeah, yeah. And look, the President did say that the negotiators are welcome to carry on. And these are really high powered players, by the way, in the negotiations. We're talking about the Pakistan, talking about Saudi, Qatar, Turkey, the host here, and Egypt. And one thing that's really interesting, and I actually spoke to the Greek Prime Minister about this because of the friction between Turkey and Greece historically, that I know our viewers know about this one as well, is that Turkey and President Erdogan are very high in the estimation of the President as well, which is really rare, isn't it? Because he has quite a bit of there, I say, disdain for a lot of European leaders and the support he's been getting. So actually, Erdogan being one of the negotiating parties, the Turks being a negotiating party, and this event being here in Ankara, that may have some significance as well. But as you quite rightly said, the President has said, look, the negotiators are very, very welcome to carry on. One thing I want to remind viewers as well is it's only in the last seven days that the former Ayatollah has been buried and there was this enormous outpouring of grief on the streets of Tehran, which again, got a lot of international airwaves as well. So it was almost inevitable that some form of emotional outpouring from Tehran, from the government there would spill over into something else as well. It's almost as if they felt they needed to make a statement of intent after all that public grieving as well. In the meantime, some of their negotiators have been getting criticism from Tehran as well about acquiescing too much in any future deal with the US as well. So it was always going to be a volatile week from the Tehran point of view. Perhaps that's why they've been quite proactive on the military front. And of course, the us, as you say, had its action back again. But I agree with you, I don't think we're there yet in terms of a full fledged return to the conflict.
- [09:47]
Donald Trump
1.
- [09:47]
Steve Sedgwick
Another other aspect which will be interesting is what are the Israelis doing as well?
- [09:51]
Joe Kernan
And at the moment, nothing in the financial, the carrot part of having those oil revenue, which I thought, you know, there was a feeling that, wow, they'd see that and say, hey, this is pretty good. Maybe we could actually improve our economy and help the people of Iran out a little bit. But see, I don't know. I don't know if that, I don't know if that is a, is high on the list of things that this regime really cares about. But immediately, you know, putting sanctions back on, I don't know how easy it is to do that. These aren't half measures, but I don't think they're full measures at this point. They could, they could come at any time and then I don't know what it does to oil. See, I'm also kind of thinking that oil always knows, and we questioned it before, why wasn't it going higher? Why is it coming down? And it always seemed to have the right idea, right interpretation about, about the events. And if it does, again, this doesn't look like a full return to just all out war.
- [10:54]
Steve Sedgwick
Yeah, look, I'll take the first point about the financial incentives. This is a regime, Trump's right, it's a murderous regime. It's a theocratic regime that kills its own people, its own democratic protesters on the streets at the start of this war. And you'll remember those famous comments from the President as well, saying, look, help is coming. It's come in a different kind of form, perhaps to help some of those looking for democracy on the ground. But this is a regime that thinks financially at least second, maybe third. But first of all about survival. Of course, one of the talked about aims of Operation Epic Fury was regime change at the time. And the President said, look, we have had a regime change, but it is still pretty much the irgc, which is the Iranian Revolutionary National Guard, plus the Ayatollah's theocratic regime, which is still in place as well. So they haven't had regime change. What they want is survival. And finances, dare I say it comes a little bit further down the list. Now, the financial incentives, the carrot, as you were talking about, Joe, absolutely enormous as well. We're talking about the end of sanctions, the ability to export its product freely around the world, and frozen assets as well. There are hundreds of billions of dollars of frozen assets held in Western bank accounts that actually they want to get their hands on, as you quite rightly say, to rebuild their economy. But when you're talking about theocrats, ayatollahs, who are looking at survival, I think the financial aspect comes a little bit later.
- [12:20]
Kelly Evans
Okay, Steve, I really appreciate it. Glad you could join us. Steve Sedgwick.
- [12:26]
Joe Kernan
And we're also watching Spain's main stock index much lower in the last few hours. At the NATO summit earlier this morning, President Trump slammed the country for not contributing enough money to the military alliance. He said he didn't want anything to do with Spain and preferred to cut off all trade with the country. I think he told Secretary Bessant to make that happen.
- [12:50]
Donald Trump
Spain is a terrible partner in NATO. They don't participate, they don't pay. I don't want anything to do with Spain. Cut off all trade with Spain, please. Including visits. Okay. We don't want anything to do. Watch them. Watch them come running back.
- [13:08]
Joe Kernan
Spanish bond yields jumping. The Spanish prime minister's office saying it has no intention of changing its excellent relationship with the U.S. spain was the only NATO member who last year did not commit to spending 5% of GDP on defense by 2035, I guarantee you
- [13:27]
Kelly Evans
there they were at, I think they went from 1.6 to 2%. But this is much broader than.
- [13:32]
Joe Kernan
They've got much more important things on their mind right now. Obviously, that next game. No, they do.
- [13:40]
Kelly Evans
These two administration, I mean, they have been. Spain has probably become one of the most vocal European countries that is not on board with anything. The Trump. This is much broader than just defense, but much broader. It's been simmering for a long time.
- [13:56]
Joe Kernan
You know who they play?
- [13:57]
Kelly Evans
No, I don't.
- [13:59]
Joe Kernan
I don't know why I bother. Do you know who beat the United States? Do you know that we had our best player and still lost four to one?
- [14:07]
Kelly Evans
I do. So Spain's going to play Belgium.
- [14:10]
Joe Kernan
Yes.
- [14:11]
Kelly Evans
Thank you.
- [14:12]
Joe Kernan
Yes.
- [14:13]
Kelly Evans
Who are you picking? What are the. What is. What is Calcium.
- [14:15]
Joe Kernan
I'm out of that. I got to talk to Dom today because if you remember what we were
- [14:18]
Kelly Evans
talking about yesterday with they almost won. And I was thinking about that 9x.
- [14:22]
Joe Kernan
We were both right. That's the. That's what I mean. We were. Here's how I see it. I told Dom, look, you got a team as good as Argentina, it will show up. The cream will rise. He goes. He was arguing. On any given day, anything can happen. So I'm watching with 12 minutes left. It was a great game. I finally understand a little bit about the of Messi.
- [14:45]
Kelly Evans
He's Incredible.
- [14:46]
Joe Kernan
When I was watching him, it almost. I was watching him a couple times and it looks like the ball is almost attached to his feet. It looks like a magnet. It just moves with. He's so talented. He's so I finally figure it out.
- [14:59]
Kelly Evans
This is new Joe Kernan.
- [15:01]
Joe Kernan
Yeah, it is. Anyway, so 12 minutes left, two to nothing.
- [15:04]
Kelly Evans
No, I know that this was happening. We hear these cheers exploding during the night.
- [15:08]
Joe Kernan
Unbelievable. And then he just said, you know what? I'm not gonna lose. And he either scored the goals or resulted in or was, you know, instrumental
- [15:19]
Kelly Evans
in the game every time.
- [15:20]
Alicia Wiesel
That's what makes really unbelievable.
- [15:21]
Joe Kernan
And then he was so emotional. I mean, I really got.
- [15:24]
Kelly Evans
He is a great.
- [15:24]
Joe Kernan
I can't believe I got into it. I really loved watching that. It was supposedly the greatest game of this year's World Cup. Anyway, Breaking news on Blue Origin. Andrew Ross Sorkin joins us now on the Squawk newsline from a secret undisclosed location. I'm told he's safe, though. Andrew.
- [15:43]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
Hey, Joe, good morning. We do have some breaking news for you. Sources telling me that Blue Origin, of course, Jeff Bezos, the space company raising outside funds for the very first time. The company is going to be valued at $130 billion. The fundraising round is about $10 billion. Leading that round is actually somebody who was just on the show, Joe. Philippe Lafont CO2 management is going to be inj about $4 billion, really the first outside money ever beyond Jeff Bezos, his money into Blue Origin. And Jeff Bezos himself is going to be putting an additional $2 billion into the company. Apparently there's lots of demand for the last tranche of $4 billion. And the expectation is there'll be several major investors putting money into that. Of course, all of this was to some degree telegraphed in that interview that we live on Squawkbox in May. And let's, let's show you what Jeff Bezos told us then.
- [16:55]
Joe Kernan
We finally have enough visibility into our future and our financial success that, you know, I've funded Blue out of my own by selling Amazon stock to fund to fund Blu. But it's a good time actually to start thinking about the future and bring on some other outside investors. So we're considering that it's not happened yet. It has not happened yet.
- [17:20]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
And of course, all of this comes, you know, just in the aftermath of the big Space X ipo, which values that company at something on the order of nearly now $2 trillion. Jeff Bezos has said that he believes that Blue Origin one day could be Bigger than Amazon, of course, his original creation, that company today stands at about $2.65 trillion in value. So there's, there's still a lot of work to be done to get from 130 billion to where, where SpaceX is and then of course, to where, to where Amazon ultimately is. By the way, a lot of this is being driven by an increased demand for launches coming from Blue Origin. Of course, NASA has that agreement with the company. You know, investors, interestingly, looking past what was a pretty significant setback back in May when there was that, that blow up on, on the launch pad that not only blew up the vehicle itself, but also blew up the launch pad, which is my understanding is under a huge effort to get that back up and running as well. But there's also a huge demand for their satellite business, Terra Wave, which is really their answer, if you will, to what SpaceX is doing with Starlink. They're doing sort of satellite version of fiber, if you will. And so we're going to be keeping our eyes on all of these things.
- [18:59]
Joe Kernan
I just feel like, you know, I'm reading like my science fiction books of my childhood are all coming true. It's so exciting, Andrew, at this point that the, you know, some of the most exciting companies we're talking about are based on things happening in space. And, you know, and what you said, I mean, Philippe, we know when he's on you, you can just. We had a big picture discussion with Philippe Lafont about the future. That's a lot of money, Andrew. It's almost as if CO2 is going to be the Berkshire Hathaway of not just space, but, but AI and everything else. And it's interesting, Bezos, so that was, would you say it's like handpicked that. Could he choose where, where he decides to, to be funded? Andrew, does that matter?
- [19:49]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
Oh, yes. I mean, look, you know, interestingly, Jeff Bezos and frankly, actually Michael Dell were investors in CO2 in one of the CO2 funds. So it's clear that there's a relationship there that does go back.
- [20:08]
Joe Kernan
Did we lose him?
- [20:09]
Kelly Evans
It sounded like it.
- [20:10]
Joe Kernan
Oh, we did lose him. That's very interesting.
- [20:13]
Kelly Evans
Just in time, I will add.
- [20:15]
Joe Kernan
Yes, yes, exactly. We were going to wrap anyway.
- [20:18]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
Get that break.
- [20:19]
Joe Kernan
Excellent.
- [20:19]
Kelly Evans
Yeah, Big news and good question.
- [20:24]
Steve Sedgwick
Cheese will be next.
- [20:25]
Katie Kramer
Coming up on squawk pod, President George W. Bush is ambassador to NATO. Nicholas Burns. He is now at Harvard's Belfer center and he's watching developments in Turkey. The negotiations, he says, could stretch on for months.
- [20:37]
Nicholas Burns
The Iranians I think have the bitten their teeth here. They think that they're tougher and more patient than we are. And so that's another part of this negotiation to show them that we'll, you know, we're going to be in this for the long term.
- [20:50]
Katie Kramer
We'll be right back.
- [20:54]
Keith Landsford
This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and subscribe@schwab.com MarketUpdatePodcast or find Schwab Market Update. Wherever you get your podcasts, buy the dip and save on CNBC PRO24.7 access to market moving news and interviews across three global live streams for 50@cnbc.com joincnbc pro. Terms and conditions apply.
- [21:40]
Katie Kramer
You're listening to Squawk Pod from CNBC TODAY with Joe Kernan and Kelly Evans.
- [21:46]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
Stand by, Joe, his mic here.
- [21:49]
Joe Kernan
President Trump saying that the U. S. Iran cease fire is over. Joining us now, Nicholas Burns, former US Ambassador to NATO, now a professor with Harvard University's Belfer Center. And it's always good to see you, Mr. Ambassador. Do you speak Trumpees Trumpian or because you need to sift through a lot of things. Do you have any better interpretation of what we're really saying here than the rest of us? At least give us your interpretation.
- [22:20]
Nicholas Burns
You know, I think that the frustration of the president and the administration is understandable. Iranians aren't playing by anybody's rules. And I thought the administration was right to launch these, these very limited airstrikes against Iran's coastal defenses and drone centers. The administration also revoked Iran's waiver to sell oil in dollars. That was a big gift to Iran to get the memorandum, memorandum of understanding. The Iranians clearly are feeling their oats. I think the option, Joe, of the administration going back to a full throated air war against Iran probably isn't there. It didn't work the first time. So there are limited options here. I think the president would do well and maybe he's doing it at the NATO summit right now in Istanbul to try to get the Europeans and also the Gulf Arab states to speak with one voice to inflict some damage on the Iranian economy. That's the pressure point. The Iranian economy is, as you know, in very bad shape. And so I think that's the angle the administration appears to be taking. And I think it's the right one with a lot of very bad options on the table.
- [23:28]
Joe Kernan
Is there a proverbial straw that would break the camel's back for the economy? Because I'm sure that the mullahs are doing just fine, you know, or the irgc, I'm sure they're, you know, they got water and food and everything else. And do they care about anyone else?
- [23:44]
Nicholas Burns
Well, that's the problem. In a normal political environment, this really, really difficult economy would be the pressure point in the government. But the irgc, the supreme, the new Supreme Leader, they care about their, their control of the state. There's a massive economic suffering in Iran taking place, but it's not a pressure point for the government of Iran. Their objective, obviously, is to wait us out and to be more tough minded. They think they can be more tough minded than the US and the Gulf Arab states. So I do think inflicting damage on what the Iranian government does care about, the ability to get oil out of their country, to sell it on the global market, to go back to the oil sales to China in particular, is important to them. And it may be that we're in a cat and mouse game where we're going to have to, you know, inflict punishment and then get back to the negotiating table. This could go on for a couple of months.
- [24:41]
Joe Kernan
Right?
- [24:42]
Kelly Evans
Yeah, I was, Ambassador Kelly here. I was going to ask about that. The blockade and denying their revenue seems to have been extremely effective at kind of bringing us toward an end in the first place. So what do we do now that it's flared up again? I mean, should that tool be used and lift, you know, we've put the waiver back or put the sanctions back on. All of these moves are designed to get at the one area where it seems like we've had the most leverage and success, which is directly at the economy, directly prohibiting oil sales. So is that something that should be doubled down on?
- [25:16]
Nicholas Burns
You know, it wouldn't surprise me at all if that was what the President and his team are now, are now communicating to the Iranians. It was interesting what the President said, but you understand the frustration. We are really getting nowhere with this group of people because they make commitments and then they withdraw them, they don't meet them. And so the President did not close off the option of continuing negotiations. He'd said he'd let his team continue to negotiate if they felt it was worthwhile. And it may be that that's what they need to do along with some of the Gulf states to put additional pressure on the Iranians to warn that a blockade is at least a possibility. It would be enormously difficult to do. The administration obviously wants to get away from having such a great deal of military firepower in that part of the world. Given the other problem we've got, for instance, trying to limit China's power in the Indo Pacific, but opening the Strait of Hormuz without Iran as the toll keeper and without Iran exacting fees is a critical American objective. And I think it's the right American objective to keep in mind here.
- [26:22]
Kelly Evans
But as we say, American objective, obviously we're in the middle of this Naito meeting where the imperative might be even more on their front than on ours. We've got more energy independence than they do. So should there be a bigger, broader response here?
- [26:38]
Nicholas Burns
Well, I think, you know, if there's obviously an economic set of disincentives that we've got to inflict on the Iranians, sanctions and, you know, revoking this waiver to sell oil in dollars, that makes sense. But you're right, I think that a broader international coalition here, and it really starts with Japan, South Korea and India, they're the ones that depend on that energy directly. The Europeans do as well. Nobody wants to see Tony Soprano like Iranian control of exacting tolls for ships going through the Strait of Hormuz. So I think the President has a natural coalition of the East Asian industrial economies as well as the Europeans as well as the Gulf Arab states who don't want that as well. And that may be the way to inflict more pressure, both politically and economically on the Iranians.
- [27:25]
Joe Kernan
So at this point, you don't think. I don't know, power plants, bridges, that. That. That's that. You said it didn't work last time. We didn't do that last time. We still could.
- [27:39]
Nicholas Burns
I don't know if the President wants to go there, Joe. I don't think he wants to go there. And I think the smartest strategy, and I know it's not a panacea, it doesn't resolve the problem overnight. We're in a really difficult situation, as you well know, in the Strait. But I think the smarter strategy is try to turn the rest of the world against the Iranians as well and try to squeeze the economic part of the lifeline that's important to that.
- [28:04]
Joe Kernan
You've got to be. Yeah, but if you're not, again, I mean, if you're still in Iran's camp, you know, it's like birds of a feather at this point. In a perfect world, they shouldn't have any allies, Mr. Ambassador? Should they?
- [28:19]
Nicholas Burns
Of course not. But they have important countries that protect them, China and Russia. And that's another angle that the President might open up. I assume there are conversations between the United States and China about this. It's interesting. You know, the Chinese still claim Iran is a friend, but they want the strait to open as well. I don't think that's in the Chinese interest to have fees exacted or tolls taken by the Iran. So I do think there's some angles here. I'm sure the administration is playing them. Obviously, they're trying to do everything they can to get this memorandum of understanding implemented. But the Iranians, I think, have the bit in their teeth here. They think that they're tougher and more patient than we are. And so that's another part of this negotiation to show them that we'll, you know, we're going to be in this for the long term to get the kind of deal we need to keep the Strait of Hormuz open.
- [29:09]
Joe Kernan
But with Iraq and Afghanistan fresh in everyone's mind, it just makes. It makes it difficult. And it's just. It's also frustrating. Mr. Ambassador, the Iranian people, you remember what it was like before the revolution. It was such a. I mean, and you get this brutal regime. They got the guns. So no matter how much the people, you know, want to come into the 21st century, it's impossible. And I don't know, I guess there are other countries like that, aren't there? There are aggressive forces still in the world.
- [29:42]
Nicholas Burns
Well, and Iran is particularly a nemesis in the United States, an adversary in Israel. I know, because, you know, think of their control on Hamas as well. This is a real tough problem.
- [29:54]
Joe Kernan
All right, Mr. Ambassador, thank you.
- [29:56]
Nicholas Burns
Thank you, Joe.
- [29:57]
Joe Kernan
Nicholas Burns
- [30:01]
Katie Kramer
next. The late author and advocate Elie Wiesel is known for his Holocaust memoir, Night Today. His son, Alicia Wiesel carries on his legacy.
- [30:09]
Alicia Wiesel
We have to not lose hope. That is the most important thing. We have to realize that some of these decisions where anti Semites are getting empowered. These are the results of razor thin margins.
- [30:20]
Katie Kramer
Squawkpod will be right back.
- [30:25]
Keith Landsford
This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and subscribe@schwab.com MarketUpdatePodcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get Your podcasts buy the dip and save on CNBC PRO24.7 access to market moving news and interviews across three global live streams. For 59.99@cnbc.com join CNBC PRO. Terms and conditions apply.
- [31:11]
Katie Kramer
This is Squawk Pod.
- [31:13]
Kelly Evans
You are watching Squawk Box on cnbc. I'm Kelly Evans this morning along with Joe Kernan. Becky and Andrew are both off.
- [31:20]
Joe Kernan
He spent 25 years on Wall street before stepping into the public eye, following in his father's footsteps. He's now preserving his family's humanitarian legacy and standing up to anti Semitism. Joining us now, the chairman of the Elie Wiesel Foundation, Alicia Wiesel. He's the son, obviously, of Elie Wiesel. And thank you for being here.
- [31:42]
Alicia Wiesel
Oh, it's a great pleasure.
- [31:42]
Joe Kernan
Good to have you.
- [31:43]
Kelly Evans
Thank you, Joe.
- [31:44]
Joe Kernan
How to start? I guess I've described it, and I'm not Jewish, but I certainly have skin in this game. We all do. Obviously, when you see what's been happening and anti Semitism has been described. I don't know who did it as like a light sleeper. It's like you're kind of, you know, the slightest thing can wake you up. It always seems to be under the surface, but not anymore. This is out and about what can be done and what happened and how concerned would your father be right now?
- [32:14]
Alicia Wiesel
Well, all of these are great questions, and thank you for having me on the show. You know, my father passed 10 years ago, and thank God he didn't have to see some of this. He loved this country. You know, July 4th just passed. And you should know my father was a dedicated patriot. He came here as an immigrant. This country gave him everything. He never forgot it. And when you think about what's happening right now, the fact that anti Semitism is so out there on the left, you have a Congress, you know, a potential congresswoman, you know, Chevalier, who just won her primary, having celebrated on October 8th what had just happened on October 6th.
- [32:47]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
7th.
- [32:48]
Alicia Wiesel
It's pretty incredible. And I think that what we have to do is we have to not lose hope. That is the most important thing. We have to realize that some of these decisions where anti Semites are getting empowered, these are the results of razor thin margins. There's the indifference that my father warned we have to fight against. You're talking about 1 in 6 of eligible primary voters getting activated. There's a lot of reason to have hope for this country. We can turn this around.
- [33:14]
Joe Kernan
My son had a copy of Night that I read. So there are places where people are being taught things like that. But there are places where people are being taught 180 degrees from that. And I'm talking about things that Ivy League colleges. I don't think it's just Ivy League college. I've seen even secondary school education where they're learning these things. Where, where does it all come from? And I'll just point out you mentioned there were. I was going to bring up these three. I don't know what. They're socialists in New York City, obviously Brad Lander, who is Jewish, he went on to. To basically say that accused Israel of apartheid and genocide. And they all hide behind people that do it outwardly. They hide behind the. There's a difference between being a Zionist and being anti Semitic. I can be against the government of Israel and I'm not being anti Semitic. And I've made the point that that's just cover. That's just cover for being. For anti Semitism. I got hammered for doing. I'll get hammered again, I'm sure.
- [34:22]
Alicia Wiesel
There's so much ignorance in the world. And my father spoke about fighting indifference, but he didn't get to see just how much ignorance we're wallowing in now. And now it's time for us to fight ignorance. If you look at the words that are used, apartheid, it's absolutely crazy. You have Arab Israelis who've gone to the Supreme Court, who run banks in the. In the country. The entire concept of genocide is such a flawed concept of ignorance. We have to be so careful with our language. When people use the phrase genocide about Israel, they are demeaning what the Nazis did and they are also demeaning what Israel has tried to do. You look at the stats, real genocides. 2/3 of European Jewry wiped out in World War II. 75% of the Tutsi population wiped out in the Rwandan genocide by the Hutus. You look at what happened to the Armenians in World War I, somewhere between half to 80% of the pre war Cambodian, Armenian population. These are real genocides. Gaza. It's a tragedy. It was a war. Hamas started a war and lost it. And 3 to 5% of the civilians population died. Do you know where else 3 to 5% of the civilian population died in a war that should never have been started? Nazi Germany.
- [35:30]
Kelly Evans
Would your father have had any issue with the way that Netanyahu has handled. You know what the war I'm talking more about now, not the response to then, but you see the international pressure on him, the frustrations the President himself has had with some of the way he's kind of acted throughout this conflict. I'm just curious if there's any. Anything you'd add there.
- [35:49]
Alicia Wiesel
Listen, I always hesitate to answer questions. What would my father have thought? There are very few privileges to being dead, but not having words put in one's mouth, I think it's definitely one of them. But I can tell you things that he said in previous situations, and I can tell you how I feel having spent Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hours with my father. There is no doubt that my father stood with Israel all the time, and he felt that it's chutzpah for us over here to be judging what you would do if you were in that situation. Imagine that 1200 civilians were killed by a group of terrorists coming across the border. They were being hid intentionally behind human shields. These people knowingly trying to put their own civilians in harm's way. This concept of, what would you do? And then we like to pretend, oh, well, you know, we'd find some other way. Unfortunately, you have to fight evil in the world, world. And that's what Israel had to do. And that's, I think, what President Trump is ultimately grappling with, with Iran.
- [36:46]
Joe Kernan
You. I'm not going to speak for your father either, but he was. I mean, I would call him Zionist. He thought Israel, Jews deserved to be in Israel historically. Right. I mean, he was almost. Politically, you couldn't say it today. I don't think you could say that. If you look at the years throughout history, Jews in Israel.
- [37:07]
Alicia Wiesel
Yeah. There's no question. My father came out as a Zionist, you know, very early. He wrote a very famous piece called Zionism and Racism in response to the
- [37:14]
Joe Kernan
U.N. well, I wanted to bring that up because. What is it? It's 2026. This was 1975. I think the United nations came out with Zionism is, I think, racism. And your father back then said that they accuse us of the same things that. That they did to us. And I read that and I go, oh, my God, Because I'm. Genocide, apartheid, race, ethnic cleansing. All the same things that actually did happen. Suddenly those words are being used back on Israel at this point, and it's not accurate.
- [37:49]
Alicia Wiesel
It's a brilliant short piece, by the way. JNS recently republished it, so it's available online. And what I would say about that piece.
- [37:56]
Joe Kernan
Is he dead?
- [37:57]
Alicia Wiesel
Your dad's piece, that particular piece of Zionism and racism from 1975, which is in the book A Jew Today. And where my father ends with that piece, is he says there's one thing that the enemy always tries to do, regardless of what they accuse us. They try to divide the Jewish people against itself. Sadly, that's been working too well in this country. You look at one third of Jews who voted for Mamdani, particularly of the younger generation. And what I take away from that is, you know what, the older generation carried so much water. My father carried so much water. As the moral, you know, courage center of that generation. You look at all the heroes of World War II. I think it's up to us now. It's kind of up to us to take that on and fight that fight. They're no longer here to do it for us.
- [38:41]
Kelly Evans
How do you do that when there's an active war going on where it's. This is not a theoretical discussion. The problem is there's headlines every morning warning about what's happening and people reacting to them. And so again, just kind of unfortunately, going back to this issue of this live conflict and how Israel looks to wind down and find a place in which it feels secure within its borders. What does that look like? Have we reached that point? Could they be more clear about that point to help quell those concerns that some people have that they feel they're being too, I don't know, expansion, whatever
- [39:13]
Alicia Wiesel
the word is, is Israel, as does this country. We both have big decisions to make in the fall about who we want our leadership to be. We have midterms coming up. There's going to be an election in October for Israel. A lot of decisions will have to be made on what is the stance, how are we going to fight? And my father always believed, he trusted the Israeli people to make those decisions and elect the right leaders for the time, for what was needed. And the same way he had encouraged credible faith in this country that we would do the same. What we are doing in our work at the Elie Wiesel foundation is we are trying to fight the worst of the lies. I'll just give you one small example of the work that we're doing. We host for Ethiopian Israelis pretty much since the Ethiopian Israeli airlifts of the 80s and 90s, we've hosted educational programs for them. What we're doing now is we are exposing young students here in the United States to the. Those Israeli students when they now see possibly their first Israeli, possibly their first Jew over these zoom conferences. They are seeing Israeli children who are black, who look like them, who are having to run for a bomb shelter because Iranian missiles are falling. We want to show that Israelis are People too.
- [40:23]
Joe Kernan
You think that the anonymity of social media is partially to blame for. I don't know. This is an upswing. And we have your friend Jonathan, my friend Greenblatt on. He gives statistics.
- [40:38]
Nicholas Burns
Yeah.
- [40:40]
Joe Kernan
Do you find hope in any of the statistics that you're seeing? Is it. Can this be reversed at this point,
- [40:47]
Alicia Wiesel
social media, I believe, needs some regulation. It's a very complicated topic on how to do it. Do I think the genie can be put back in the bottle? The only way I think to fight lies is to. Is to fight with truth. They're going to say the enemies of the Jewish people are going to say the Jewish people, Israelis are white, colonialist. Whatever it is they want to describe it as, which is of course crazy. Half of Israel is non white. But let them say their lies. We have to come back and show the truth.
- [41:16]
Joe Kernan
That's part of the Colombia. It's a class. Have nots. Haves. Have nots.
- [41:21]
Alicia Wiesel
Of course.
- [41:21]
Joe Kernan
Why versus people of color? I think so many things go into why a 20 year old says genocide or death to. I mean, I couldn't believe the signs at Ivy League campuses. I don't know where that comes from and how it's acceptable.
- [41:37]
Alicia Wiesel
These young people, I think that we have to have some empathy for them if we're to have any river. They don't know what it is. They're so ignorant. I don't know which river.
- [41:46]
Joe Kernan
It's an east river.
- [41:47]
Alicia Wiesel
You look in groups like Queers for Palestine. I mean, you know, my God, they'd be welcomed at the Tel Aviv pride parade and they'd be thrown off a roof if they were in Gaza. But, you know, this is how their alignment. So there's a tremendous amount of ignorance. We have to fight it. And we also have to have empathy. We have to realize these are mostly young people. They're looking for purpose at a time where purpose is hard to find. They don't have the same opportunities that previous generations have had. They're frustrated. They're looking around for ways to make a difference. We have to find a way to channel that, not shut them down.
- [42:16]
Joe Kernan
Alicia, thank you.
- [42:18]
Alicia Wiesel
Thank you.
- [42:18]
Joe Kernan
Ken's important and I brought you in. I wanted to hear directly from you. You know, I hadn't read night and it's really.
- [42:28]
Alicia Wiesel
Thank you for remembering your father with us.
- [42:30]
Joe Kernan
You're welcome. And we need to remember exactly what he talked about in that book.
- [42:36]
Katie Kramer
That is Squawk Pod for today. Thanks for listening. Squawkbox is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross. Sorkin. We are glad to be joined by Kelly Evans today. Please check out Squawk Box weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 Eastern or get the best of our TV show right into your ears when you follow Squawkpod wherever you get your podcasts and tell us what you think you can rate. Or write a brief review of Squawkpod right on Apple Podcasts that helps other listeners find us. We'll meet you right back here tomorrow.
- [43:06]
Joe Kernan
We are clear.
- [43:08]
Nicholas Burns
Thanks guys.
- [43:18]
Keith Landsford
This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Landsford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions, and key results and statistics that may impact impact your trading. Download the latest episode and subscribe@schwab.com MarketUpdatePodcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts.