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Jamie Dimon’s Annual Letter & Firing US AG Pam Bondi 4/6/26
00:38:10
Former SEC Chair and current US Attorney for the Southern District of NY Jay Clayton addresses the firing of his boss, U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi. Clayton also discusses President Trump’s managerial style, American sentiment toward election interference, and the business of college sports. From Dubai, CNBC’s Dan Murphy reports on the Iran War, President Trump’s relationship with leaders in the Middle East, and the resulting volatility in the global oil markets. Plus, JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon highlighted geopolitical, inflationary, and regulatory risk in his annual shareholder letter, and Artemis II is ready to swing around the moon and return to Earth. Dan Murphy - 3:08 Jay Clayton - 20:13 In this episode: Dan Murphy, @dan_murphy Leslie Picker, @LesliePicker Andrew Ross Sorkin, @andrewrsorkin Becky Quick, @BeckyQuick Joe Kernen, @JoeSquawk Katie Kramer, @Kramer_Katie
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- [00:00]
Jay Clayton
At Janice Henderson, we strive to deliver better outcomes through insight, led investing innovation for clients and a partnership approach that's core to our identity. I'm Dan Aronson, ETF client product specialist.
- [00:13]
Becky Quick
I enjoy translating complex ETF strategies into
- [00:17]
Jay Clayton
clear, actionable insights that enable our clients to create more robust client portfolios. Janice henderson, investing in a brighter future.
- [00:26]
Becky Quick
Together,
- [00:30]
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- [01:01]
Becky Quick
Bring in show music, please.
- [01:05]
Katie Kramer
Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk pod, the first US fighter jet downed in combat in more than 20 years. While the world awaits President Trump's next steps, we have the latest headlines in the Iran war. CNBC's Dan Murphy Oil is perhaps being
- [01:23]
Dan Murphy
driven more so by the Hormuz headline than the diplomatic deadline.
- [01:28]
Katie Kramer
Here then Attorney General Pam Bondi fired. Jake Clayton, the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York joins us on his new boss and his other boss.
- [01:38]
Jay Clayton
President Trump has a very hands on management style. I think the benefits of that are fantastic.
- [01:45]
Katie Kramer
And the American sentiment on the war,
- [01:48]
Jay Clayton
I think if you poll the American people, they're happy that we are doing this or I shouldn't say happy is the wrong word. I think they understand and access it.
- [01:56]
Becky Quick
I don't think the poll suggests that
- [01:58]
Katie Kramer
those big conversations plus Jamie Dimon highlights risk in JP Morgan's annual shareholder letter. And the Artemis II crew is set to swing around the moon and start their trip home.
- [02:09]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
We've been singing see you on the dark side of the moon since for the last week.
- [02:15]
Katie Kramer
It is Monday, April 6, 2026. Squawk Pod begins right now.
- [02:21]
Becky Quick
Stand back. You buy in three, two, one. Cue it, please.
- [02:27]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Squawk Box right here on cnbc. We are live from the NASDAQ market site in Times Square. I'm Becky Quick along with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Welcome back.
- [02:38]
Becky Quick
Thank you.
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Joe Kernan
Three people.
- [02:39]
Becky Quick
Three people back from vacation. Happy Easter.
- [02:41]
Joe Kernan
Everybody's. We can coast only a third of the workload now. We've been carrying your.
- [02:51]
Becky Quick
You've been carrying my water. Sorry.
- [02:52]
Joe Kernan
Lazy butt. Around for the past.
- [02:54]
Becky Quick
I, I appreciate that.
- [02:55]
Joe Kernan
Okay.
- [02:55]
Becky Quick
I appreciate that. And nothing's happened obviously in the past two weeks either.
- [02:59]
Joe Kernan
I tried to channel you.
- [03:00]
Becky Quick
Incredible.
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Joe Kernan
From time to time.
- [03:01]
Becky Quick
You did.
- [03:02]
Joe Kernan
Just to keep things fair and balanced. I did. I did a terrible job.
- [03:05]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
I was going to say. I did not notice that at all. President Trump threatening Iran's critical infrastructure and the U.S. rescuing an aviator shot down inside the country. CNBC's Dan Murphy joins us now with more from Abu Dhabi. Dan, good morning.
- [03:20]
Dan Murphy
Becky, good morning to you. Well, let's start with the story that kept the White House Situation Room running all weekend because it is reverberating around the Gulf and around the world. This F15E Strike Eagle was shot down over southwestern Iran. It was the first US fighter jet downed in combat in more than 20 years. Both crew members ejected into hostile territory. The pilot was recovered within hours, but the weapons systems officer, who also happened to be an Air Force colonel, disappeared into the Iranian mountains. And as the IRGC and local militia closed in, what followed was probably one of the most extraordinary US Military operations in recent memory to get him out. And President Trump is, of course, going to take a victory lap for that mission later today at the White House where he's also expected to double down on his most explosive and as you heard across the weekend, most exploitive ultimatum yet, which is the threat to strike Iranian power plants and Bridges by 8pm Eastern Tuesday if the Strait of Hormuz remains closed. Now that deadline is also now colliding with a new diplomatic push as well. WOTIS reports this morning that Pakistan has exchanged a cease fire framework with both Washington and Tehran overnight. Axios also saying mediators are now discussing a 45 day cease fire as part of a two phased deal. Most importantly, though, and you just flagged this, Iran has not committed to anything yet. And oil markets also don't seem to be pricing in any kind of rapid de escalation here either. In fact, Halima Croft at RBC just said she is skeptical that this is going to be a major diplomatic breakthrough because as we flagged, if the market actually believed that a peace plan was hours away, we probably wouldn't see local crude here trading at such a massive spread or WTI trading premium to Brent and holding on to nearly $110 a barrel. So all eyes are on exactly what the president has to say later today. And of course, any new insights on this diplomatic push are going to be very closely watched by a market still trading on the headlines and ultimately still confused about the trajectory of this conflict. Becky.
- [05:35]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
Hey Dan, let's talk a little bit about the Gulf states view of this latest ultimatum. The president had made similar threats in the past about saying he was going to go after some of the energy infrastructure. Pushback from the Arab states I think was pretty immediate because Iran had threatened to go after their own decentralized desalination program plants and other infrastructure in the Gulf states. How do they feel about this ultimatum?
- [05:59]
Dan Murphy
It's a really good point. And as you mentioned, we saw Iranian drones and missiles actually hitting petrochemical plants, oil facilities, power stations across the uae, Kuwait and Bahrain at the weekend. Those attacks have also continued today. And also the spike morning, the head of the IRGC intelligence arm was killed in a US Israeli strike too. So you have a senior intelligence chief, the eyes of the irgc, as he's being called, killed on the same day that a cease fire is supposedly on the table. It certainly adds a lot of confusion as to which way this could go. So as I mentioned, all eyes are on 8pm Eastern Tuesday. That's 4am Wednesday here in the Gulf. It's a deadline that looks increasingly like a point of no return. We really are reaching a critical juncture at this war with the President's threats continuing to escalate. And here in Abu Dhabi and the other Gulf capitals, this is being watched very closely. Just quickly on the issue of the Strait of Hormuz as well, I was listening in to a briefing with the UAE Presidential Adviser Dr. Anwar Gargache on Saturday and he said that the UAE would be willing to join any American led effort to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. So it seems as if from a Gulf capital perspective, from a UAE perspective, they still may be waiting to see what the United States does when it comes to reopening the Strait. Of course, the President has already hinted that America does not need Hormuz and could perhaps be taking a step back. That has also raised some concern here in the Gulf that the US could also be pulling out too soon. Again, something that we've been hearing over the last couple of weeks. But again, as I mentioned, all eyes are on what the President has to say to perhaps see any more signals on which direction this conflict will go.
- [07:44]
Joe Kernan
Dan, I think it was two weeks exactly today, Monday it was two weeks ago when the President first said we're close to ending this and oil WTI I think was 110 and I think it went under 90. And that obviously was not the correct move because it went all the way back up. So I think this could be something like a fool me once I think the oil markets are going to have but I'm not convinced that this means that this is just going to fall by the wayside like the last. We don't know. We have no idea how close. You know, whether Witkoff and Vance and supposedly what the forest foreign minister of Iran has received this proposal from Pakistan. So who knows. But, but I'm just saying I don't know if oil is the ultimate armor. It was dead wrong on believing the first one. So whether it's at this point it might be in a show me.
- [08:43]
Dan Murphy
Joe, I think you make a really good point here. Oil is perhaps being driven more so by the Hormuz headline than the diplomatic deadline here. Of course, the only thing that really matters to traders at this point is, number one, what the President says. But also number two, any signal on whether we're going to see Hormuz reopening again. Millions of barrels still effectively locked offline and until that supply genuinely starts feel right. We can expect to see prices elevated. Right.
- [09:11]
Joe Kernan
That's part of the deal. Open it immediately is part of the deal.
- [09:13]
Dan Murphy
That's right, yeah.
- [09:14]
Joe Kernan
The 45 day exactly. Open Hormuz like a medium.
- [09:17]
Becky Quick
So I was going to ask you, Dan, a different question, which is you'd said the UAE prepared to go in with the Americans to effectively control the strait. And when they say they're willing to go in, that requires, I think, boots on the ground. Do you think that there's enough of a coalition? And I ask because clearly one of the things the President has said is he doesn't want to put US Boots on the ground. He's saying to all of his allies. I know I use the word allies maybe loosely because I think that's it's getting increasingly complicated in that regard. But its allies to say it's it's on you to figure this out. And how do they feel about that?
- [09:55]
Dan Murphy
Andrew, it's a good point and I also attempted to press for more answers on this as well. It seems as if the Emirati position is that they would support any US Led effort to go in to reopen Hormuz. But as I mentioned, the president is signaling that this isn't necessarily a priority for him. And indeed he has been quite effective in rallying a coalition here to perhaps take on more of a responsibility for patrolling and opening up Hormuz moving forward. But the extent in which the Gulf leaders and indeed these Gulf states would deploy resources to actually do that Remains to be seen. Remember, it was only a couple of weeks ago, Andrew, that the US actually said that they would be providing naval escorts in the best case scenario. That idea also appears to have gone out the window. So leaders here really reluctant to kind of throw anything at this until they get real clarity from the US on exactly what type of position they'll be taking moving forward as well. So watch this space Hormuz, obviously critical for the oil markets. And again, the diplomatic off ramp may be emerging here, but no concrete insights as of yet.
- [11:01]
Joe Kernan
Dan, how many boots were on the ground for this operation? And thank God, I mean the, the transport planes that were stuck in the sand, they had to fly new ones in. And I mean there were, were there thousands of troops involved that were in 200 miles into Iran? So there have been boots on the ground already?
- [11:25]
Dan Murphy
Well, the exact number I think is pretty unclear, Joe, but this was an historic mission. I can't wait to see the movie myself. I'm sure it's coming up. But you know, with the amount of military resources that the US has in region right now, you can pretty much expect that it was a significant amount of firepower that was helping to get this American hero outside of Iran. And mission accomplished for the President here and mission accomplished for the United states.
- [11:50]
Joe Kernan
Crazy story. 7,000ft injured. You'll find a crevasse and says God is great. We don't believe it. We don't believe. We see God as great. If someone says God is great, it doesn't sound like our guy. It depends on which God we're talking about, I guess. And then they found out there's ways of determining it's encrypted and everything else. Unbelievable reading about it.
- [12:15]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
And the Iranians were looking at the same time.
- [12:18]
Joe Kernan
Oh yeah, they certainly were. And I had a feeling of dread all day Saturday and Sunday, which made me remember 1979 remain made me remember what they do to our guys when, when they, and it made me think God, I just really am angry at people within that country that do you know, this is war. And I'm just glad that didn't happen. Dan, obviously.
- [12:40]
Becky Quick
Meantime, we got some news. Dan, thank you for that report. I'm sure we're going to be talking to you a lot more. In the meantime though, we have some news just out. JP Morgan out this morning with JP with Jamie Dimon's annual letter and Leslie Picker has that letter. Leslie.
- [12:54]
Leslie Picker
Hey Andrew, good morning. A wide ranging 50 page annual letter from chairman and CEO Jamie Dimon this morning on AI he's saying that investment in AI is not a speculative bubble. And he said, quote, in the long run it will have a huge positive impact on productivity. He's saying AI will definitely create and eliminate some jobs and it will also introduce serious new risks from deepfakes and misinformation to cybersecurity vulnerabilities. On private credit, Dimon noting that actual losses right now are already a little higher than they should be relative to the environment. And he writes, quote, by and large, private credit does not tend to have great transparency or rigorous valuation marks on their loans. He said at some point insurance regulators will insist on more rigorous ratings or markdowns and said if anything goes wrong, retail investors will seek remedy in court. However, Dimon said private credit is probably not a systemic risk. Dimon has a long section in the letter guys on bank regulations and said their initial reactions to the new proposals that came out a couple weeks ago were mixed with some aspects that he thinks are, quote, nonsensical. He said JP Morgan would have to hold as much as 50% more capital on the majority of their loans compared with mid sized peers if these proposals were passed. And then lastly, in terms of the broader economy, Dimon saying it continues to be resilient while noting some weakness, some recent weakening of the consumer. He reiterated what he told us last month in Miami that the quote skunk at the party and it could happen in 2026, he said would be inflation slowly going up. He said the Iran war could drive up inflation and interest rates and warned of the potential for further oil and commodity shocks from here. Guys.
- [14:43]
Becky Quick
Leslie, what was your sense? I mean the interesting part to me about that letter was the skunk at the party line which you pulled out and the private credit piece more than anything else. Having said that, I did think that his commentary around private credit, while not arguing that it was systemic, raised some questions just about the marks piece of all of this. And as you think about sort of legislation or regulations about how people are going to think about some of these marks and even the way insurance companies are marking some of this stuff, that's
- [15:13]
Leslie Picker
what I thought was really interesting too because we've heard him talk a lot about private credit but honing in specifically on this transparency issue, on the marks issue, that felt pretty new to me. And then also just the regulatory implications, all of this, specifically the insurance regulators, which a lot of these of course are in insurance vehicles. You've got a theme, for example, which is tied to Apollo and so forth and then the retail investor aspect as well. Seeking remedy in court. That kind of echoes what we heard from Lloyd Blankfein, this idea that, you know, all the sign if you sell it to institutions, but once it starts going in a big way into retail portfolios, if anything goes wrong, it could be a big reputational risk.
- [15:56]
Becky Quick
Well, and we've watched it, obviously with Blue Owl last week, which continues to hemorrhage, both in terms of its stock price itself, and then all the folks who seem to want to get out, out of those vehicles. The question is if there's a reason for anybody to get into those vehicles in this moment to take some of the pressure off of them, and if they don't, what happens? I mean, the sort of irony is we haven't reached a point yet in the private credit land where all these software companies, which everybody's so worried about, have gone belly up and therefore have hit the credit market yet. Right. So it's all in anticipation of something.
- [16:31]
Leslie Picker
Yeah. And that's what's kind of interesting because in a few of these vehicles, and interestingly, despite all of the redemption requests in those two Blue Owl funds last week, they did still see inflows. And of course, they capped the redemption. So combined with the gating that they chose to do and a little bit of inflows, they didn't have massive outflows. Now, some of them, they just didn't allow the outflows to happen. As a result, the fund size stayed basically the same, which means that they didn't forego much in the way of fees. And the question, I think is a good one, Andrew, is who is going to be the marginal inflows from here if not for retail? Is institutional tapped out? Are they still even interested, given all the negative headlines?
- [17:15]
Becky Quick
Leslie, thank you for bringing us that letter. It's a fascinating one. It is long, is lengthy, but there's a whole bunch of pieces of it that I think are going to be some big reading for folks on Wall street this morning. Thanks.
- [17:28]
Joe Kernan
Jamie. Had some great comments. I don't know, did they reach you and wherever you were, some of his comments that he made in some interviews last week.
- [17:35]
Becky Quick
Yeah, yeah, I've seen a whole bunch of. A whole bunch of his comments.
- [17:38]
Joe Kernan
Amazing
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Becky Quick
Tease will be next.
- [17:43]
Katie Kramer
Coming up on Squawkpot, a lively conversation with former SEC Chair and current U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, Jake Layton. We hit all the lightning rods. Russian interference in the 2016 elections, the Iran war, and a new executive order on college sports.
- [18:00]
Jay Clayton
College sports is in trouble. From a financial point of view, there are revenue generating sports. Sports, football and basketball. In order to compete in those sports, you now have to step up as a university and start to pay people a lot of money. The payrolls. That's creating a race to the bottom.
- [18:18]
Katie Kramer
We're back after this.
- [18:26]
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- [19:25]
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- [19:39]
Joe Kernan
Hey, what's your pin?
- [19:40]
Jay Clayton
2538.
- [19:42]
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- [19:55]
LifeLock Commercial Voice
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- [20:28]
Katie Kramer
Welcome back. This is Squawk Pod.
- [20:31]
Becky Quick
Straight up. I'm Becky. Three, two, one Up. I'm Becky Q.
- [20:37]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
You're watching Squawk Box right here on cnbc. I'm Becky Quick along with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorkin, get ready shake up at the Department of Justice after President Trump fired Attorney General Pam Bondi. Joining us right now is Jay Clayton, the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York and former SEC Chairman. Looks like you have a new boss, Jay.
- [20:57]
Jay Clayton
Yeah, well, I know the, the interim, I know the new boss, Acting Attorney General Blanch, very well. And look, he's a, he's a really good lawyer. He knows the Justice Department. And I think, you know, there's a lot of speculation now about who will be the nominee. He can be in that job by statute for quite a long time as the acting attorney General General. So there's no rush here. You know, you have a really competent person who knows those things well and knows the, knows the president's agenda for the Justice Department.
- [21:30]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
The Wall Street Journal op ed page wrote about what happened with Pam Bondi and said that Pam Bondi learned the hard way that it's there may not be a worse job in Washington, D.C. than being attorney general under president that it's a very difficult position to be in because he not only expects this person to follow his expectations when it comes to policy, but also to indict his political enemies. What do you say about that?
- [22:02]
Jay Clayton
Well, it's a difficult job, like many of these jobs, and not just because of the portfolio that you have to deal with. And you talk about President Trump and, and look, President Trump has a very hands on management style. I think the benefits of that are fantastic. I mean, you have somebody who is deeply knowledgeable about many areas, including what's going on at the Justice Department. But one of the things about these jobs that's so difficult is you also have Congress, that there are a number of people in Congress and it's no secret they want to make your life difficult. You know, when you get hauled up there for hearings, it's not often to learn about what the Justice Department is doing or enlighten the American people. It's to give people a hard time. And I think Pam Bondi went through quite a lot of that.
- [22:51]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
The Journal op ed though, goes back to Bill Barr and the president's frustration with him when he would not say that the election was rigged and look into kind of finding people to go after for that. Is it a position where the attorney general is put into a position of having to go after the president's enemies?
- [23:10]
Jay Clayton
I don't think that you have to go after the president's enemy. I think that's incredibly stark. Let Me. Let me deal with two issues, though. One, one is election integrity. We have great uncertainty in this country about election integrity. And the reason is because we don't have a good audit trail for many of our elections. So, you know, when I go look at whether a corporation has done something wrong or, you know, many aspects of our society, there's actually quite a good audit trail of who did what when. And you can go back and look at it. If you try and go look at elections, it's very difficult in some jurisdictions to, with a high degree of confidence, say only people who were eligible to vote voted. It's which, you know, here we are in the electronic age where we can be tracked anywhere, our phones can take us anywhere. To get on a plane, you have to show id, do all these things. And if you told me that I have to audit an election and say, you know what, I'm going to certify to an incredibly high degree of certainty that only people who are eligible to vote voted, there are many jurisdictions where I cannot do that, and that makes no sense.
- [24:21]
Joe Kernan
Jay, do you think that there were crimes committed leading up to the Russia hoax, whatever, crossfire, or any of those things that you talk about, some of the warrants that were issued, should people be held accountable for any of that, or is it just pure retribution against Trump's enemies, or were there criminal conspiracies
- [24:42]
Jay Clayton
afoot, in your view? In my position, I'm not going to say that something rises to the level of criminality unless I've seen the evidence myself. What I will say is what we saw after the 2016 election with these allegations against Donald Trump and his campaign for collusion with the Russians, which have been completely debunked, the American people ought to be like, what the heck?
- [25:09]
Joe Kernan
It came from somewhere, Jeff.
- [25:11]
Jay Clayton
I know, but what the heck happened that that got traction, and then what legal commentators don't talk about enough is that got traction and then it was debunked, but the investigation actually continued and the charges that were pursued, or I would say the potential charges that were pursued, were obstruction charges. Obstruction for a predicate that did not exist. That is. That is out of bounds in my view.
- [25:41]
Becky Quick
You've seen that, though, happen before.
- [25:42]
Jay Clayton
I have. And it's out of bounds.
- [25:45]
Becky Quick
You think it's. You think it's out of bounds across the board. And I ask in the following context. Many, many, many years ago, I covered the Frank Quattrone trial. The Frank Quattrone trial. Frank was a banker, is still a banker, was a Credit Suisse. First Boston, this is back in the day. And he was prosecuted for obstruction of justice. He was not prosecuted for the underlying crime of. Of. Of what the. Of what the Even allegation or investigation.
- [26:11]
Jay Clayton
I think. And I asked this because I know this. I know the case very well.
- [26:14]
Becky Quick
You know very well. And there were a lot of people who looked at that case and said, and by the way, you would then work for Steve Peak. You worked with Steve Peekin at Salvador Cromwell. Later, later, later. And at the sec. Later, later. Okay, he brought that. He brought that case.
- [26:27]
Jay Clayton
Good, good prosecutor, good defense lawyer.
- [26:29]
Becky Quick
Well, okay, if he's a good prosecutor, do you think that he should have brought that case against Frank Quattrone originally? Because what you're saying is if the underlying case is. Or the underlying investigation is inappropriate, that it's not. That it's illegal. So even. I said investigate.
- [26:45]
Jay Clayton
Listen to what I said. I said there's no evidence, no credible evidence of this Russian collusion in a highly political. I'm not disagreeing with you, but the question is, in the insider trading, laddering cases that you're talking about, there was. There was evidence. Question of whether it was criminal or not, but there was evidence of potential misconduct.
- [27:03]
Becky Quick
But when you have a situation where you are investing 0 versus some, but where you're investigating a crime.
- [27:10]
Jay Clayton
Yes.
- [27:12]
Becky Quick
Do you. And somebody obstructs that case, even if you ultimately decide that there is not a crime and that you are. At some point you have to decide to even investigate the. And you're saying there was no reason to even investigate the reason you.
- [27:25]
Jay Clayton
The reason you may not be able to prove the crime, maybe as a result of the obstruction. What I'm talking about in the case of 2016 was there was no credible evidence of this collusion to affect the election.
- [27:41]
Becky Quick
I should not investigate it. Well, I think.
- [27:43]
Jay Clayton
No, no, you investigate. Then you're like, okay, there's nothing there. Okay, but why do I keep this investigation? Right.
- [27:48]
Becky Quick
But the problem is if in the, in the, in the process of an investigation that the government. Government is leading, which you could be leading in the future, if somebody then obstructs that investigation, whether the investigation ultimately bears fruit or not, you have.
- [28:01]
Jay Clayton
I understand. I understand what you're saying. What was, what was the obstruction in the case of the 2016 election? It was like, you know, trying to bait people. And it wasn't destroying documents. It wasn't running around and saying, you know, you tell them this, I'll tell them that, we'll make up our story.
- [28:21]
Becky Quick
But that's not what you just said, you said that because there was no underlying case, the obstruction case. There shouldn't be an obstruction case.
- [28:28]
Joe Kernan
This is mind blowing. So if you bomb Powell, did you
- [28:31]
Jay Clayton
like that obstruction case? You thought it was a good case?
- [28:33]
Becky Quick
Which case?
- [28:34]
Jay Clayton
Pursuing the members of the campaign for obstruction.
- [28:37]
Becky Quick
I didn't think the case against him and I didn't think the case against Frank Quattrone were correct in the end. And by the way, in the Quattrone case, a judge ultimately overturned it. And in the case of Trump, he ultimately won that. We're, we're right.
- [28:52]
Joe Kernan
We're talking earlier about, I think, I
- [28:54]
Jay Clayton
think we're in violent agreement. Andrew.
- [28:56]
Becky Quick
We may be in agreement about the actual case, but then the question is, can you bring that case in?
- [29:00]
Joe Kernan
Love and war, what's fair? And I'm talking about, I mean, I think about past wars where, where we have bombed power plants. Now I'm told that there is, this is a war crime. Certain things that Trump is conducting or proposing to conduct in Iran, going after bridges. If you were to bomb a power plant in Iran, I guess the Europeans
- [29:24]
Jay Clayton
are, was it one of the great successes of World War II, destroying the heavy water plant?
- [29:28]
Joe Kernan
I remember that's why I asked. I guess you certainly didn't like ending the war with Japan, with Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Obviously that, that would have been off the table, complete. But what is fair in this, in this case? Do you think that bombing all the power plants, if they supply power to a hospital, I mean, that seems really mean to do that, doesn't it?
- [29:50]
Jay Clayton
Look, these are, these are, these are hard questions, but if these, if you are supplying power to what, what we have seen is a regime that can send missiles 4,000 miles.
- [30:02]
Joe Kernan
It's hard to PR for the, for, for Iran, but people are they, there are members of the media that are, you know, they seem to be bolstering Iran's case more than the United States in many ways. Right?
- [30:16]
Jay Clayton
Yes. This is, it's inexplicable.
- [30:20]
Joe Kernan
That's enemy of my enemy with Trump.
- [30:22]
Jay Clayton
Well, let's, one thing that you talked about earlier, that's a very interesting data point here, is we're learning more and more about their capabilities, abilities. Let's, let's remember that they lied to us. They were supposed to tell us the truth about all their capabilities and they just lied to the west about all of it, which is what enabled them to continue to build this arsenal, to continue to sell oil, to continue to be, be this well financed terrorist state.
- [30:50]
Joe Kernan
I mean, I guess hit hits on certain officials Is that's a war crime, too. Is, and I don't know, everything's a war. It just that we need to define what's. What's fair. And the people that we are taking out, they might be responsible for tens of thousands of atrocities.
- [31:06]
Jay Clayton
I think, you know, I think if you poll the American people, they're happy that we are doing this, or I shouldn't say happy is the wrong word. I think they understand the necessity.
- [31:16]
Becky Quick
I don't think the poll suggests that. Just so we're on the same.
- [31:18]
Jay Clayton
I think it's how you ask. I think it's how you ask the question.
- [31:21]
Becky Quick
But I'm just saying we can look at the polls. Right now, I'm pretty confident, for better or worse, that the polls are not.
- [31:26]
Jay Clayton
If you ask somebody, if you ask somebody, should we bomb a power plant? That's a different question than if you ask somebody, should we dismantle a terrorist regime?
- [31:35]
Becky Quick
Oh, I don't think there's a question mark about dismantling. If, look, if we could dismantle Iran, we should.
- [31:41]
Jay Clayton
I think this is part of it.
- [31:43]
Becky Quick
But the question is, can you and can you do it effectively? Right. That there's a difference between. You can hold two ideas in your head. I absolutely believe on one end, it would be great to dismantle Iran if you could, but if you can't or you can't do it effectively or it's going to take years and you have to put boots on the ground, there's another argument to be made, which is to say, go back to home base, figure out what you can figure out, and then do it when you actually are capable of actually doing it. I mean, that's part of the question mark right now.
- [32:15]
Jay Clayton
I feel highly confident that we are in a better position vis a vis Iran today than we were a month ago in terms of the safety of the American people. Highly confident.
- [32:25]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
Jay, I want to ask you one more topic before you leave. Doesn't rise to the level of the topics we've been discussing to this point, but President Trump did just put out a major executive order about protecting the future of college sports before it's too late. I've read that you have some involvement with this. I don't think you've talked about it publicly. What, what is your involvement and what is the point of this executive order?
- [32:49]
Jay Clayton
I'll start with the point of the executive order and then I'll go with my mom. College sports is in trouble. From a financial point of view, there's an incredible amount of uncertainty about what
- [33:00]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
the rules are because of nil, because
- [33:03]
Jay Clayton
of nil, because of eligibility. How many years can you transfer?
- [33:08]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
Should have 27 year olds playing in college.
- [33:10]
Jay Clayton
Who can get paid what? And what's happening is there are revenue generating sports, football and basketball. In order to compete in those sports, you now have to step up as a university and start to pay people a lot of money, the payrolls. That's creating a race to the bottom. There can only be so many schools that can afford to pay players and be very competitive. So we have the possibility where the number of schools playing football, the number of schools playing basketball is going to shrink and their ability to finance the rest of the sports, the women's sports, the Olympic sports, is going to dry up. That's, that is a possible result, a very possible result of where we are right now. And let's step back. Every sport that we watch, every professional sport that we watch has lots of rules. How many teams in the league, how many games they can play, salary caps, all of those things. The NCAA went from the most rigid rules. You can only play, you know, for four years, you can't get paid, you can't transfer without sitting out. You can't, you, you can't get nil money, you can't get. Those rules were way too rigid. Now we're in a place where we
- [34:21]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
have no rules, right?
- [34:23]
Jay Clayton
So we've got to find a set of rules. They don't have to be exactly like professional sports, but we have to find a set of rules that continues to create a balance of opportunity for as many people as possible. Continuing entertainment. And that's what the president's trying to tackle. He's saying, hey, five years makes sense to me. You know, able to transfer once, if you earn a degree, able to transfer again.
- [34:46]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
But you can't go to a different school every year.
- [34:48]
Jay Clayton
But you can't go to school every year.
- [34:50]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
Be.
- [34:50]
Jay Clayton
It can't be, you know, some rule about how old you can be, you know.
- [34:54]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
Right.
- [34:55]
Jay Clayton
Those types of things. And then how do people, we're bringing
- [34:58]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
in Europeans who are basically from the European leagues. Are you still a student athlete at this point or are you just a gladiator?
- [35:06]
Jay Clayton
That is a really good question. And I believe, and a lot of people believe we have 500,000 people a year participate in college sports. A lot of people believe that this uniquely American cultural phenomenon creates great leaders. People, if you look at particularly women CEOs in America, a large majority of them participated in college sports just as,
- [35:30]
Becky Quick
and I apologize to come back to it, but because you said it, and I just want to be. I take no joy in saying it. I don't.
- [35:37]
Jay Clayton
You look, you look really happy right now.
- [35:40]
Becky Quick
It's just here we have a conversation. No, I just think we have to tell the public what's actually happening here.
- [35:46]
Joe Kernan
Is this going to be, what do you call, empirical? Is it going to be empirical when Andrew talks? Empirical?
- [35:50]
Becky Quick
No, I'm just going to say you can look it up.
- [35:52]
Jay Clayton
You got a poll.
- [35:53]
Becky Quick
You can look at Pew, you can look at Reuters, Ipsum, you can go down the list. And the question that's being asked is slightly different. The question that's being asked is, Americans broadly disapprove of U.S. military action in Iran. And the question then becomes 6 in 10 disapprove, disapprove of Trump's handling of Iran conflict. So it's different than what you're suggesting. And I say that because you can look now, there's half a dozen polls here, all recent, all, I think, that are relatively apolitical, that are coming to that conclusion. I only say that because here we are telling the public one thing and you look, I'm looking. I'm staring at the screen and it's the opposite.
- [36:35]
Joe Kernan
And if you, the media keeps telling the public that they should not be for this, they're eventually going to not be for this.
- [36:41]
Becky Quick
I, I'm just telling you what don't think they're not. I think you have to tell people
- [36:46]
Joe Kernan
you're part and parcel to the whole, the whole freaking system of doing that. And so is the New York Times.
- [36:52]
Jay Clayton
Andrew, here's.
- [36:53]
Becky Quick
And what about, what are you doing? Why are we not talking?
- [36:55]
Joe Kernan
I'm hopeful that this works out and I'm behind.
- [36:57]
Becky Quick
I, hopefully it works out, too.
- [36:59]
Joe Kernan
But you have to tell people the truth. Okay, we'll come to you for the truth.
- [37:06]
Jay Clayton
Here is my point, that if you said to the American people, here are five things that the Iranian regime financed over the last five years that resulted in death and destruction, and they are committed to continue to do it. Do you support stopping that? I think the answer from the American people would be yes.
- [37:30]
Becky Quick
The Pew, just so we're clear, was asked, with the war, will the war with Iran make the US and the world safer or less safe? Even just on a very basic question, they came to the other conclusion. I just tell you that that's what the polls are saying.
- [37:44]
Jay Clayton
That's not the same question I asked.
- [37:46]
Becky Quick
It's different, but it's in the same, it's in the same category.
- [37:49]
Jay Clayton
We all know that you can get vastly different results on the same side subject by the predicate.
- [37:55]
Joe Kernan
It's great. The media. Just great. It's great because the media massages that point of view and then cites the point of view that they've been massaging as proof of their original massaging.
- [38:08]
Becky Quick
It's amazing if we can't agree on just basic. By the way, Americans are largely pessimistic about the war in Iran. How about that? Just a.
- [38:16]
Joe Kernan
That has to do with Iraq. It has to do with.
- [38:19]
Jay Clayton
Let me ask you a question. Are Americans where before this started, were Americans generally pessimistic about peace in the Middle East?
- [38:25]
Becky Quick
You know what? We'll get you the study on that. Okay? I'm just a little bit different than the way.
- [38:30]
Joe Kernan
If it all works out, we'll come back and revisit all these things. By the way, I hope you always say that you're not happy.
- [38:40]
Katie Kramer
We'll be right back.
- [38:46]
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- [39:43]
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- [40:00]
Joe Kernan
Look, she's right there.
- [40:00]
Jay Clayton
She's three minutes away.
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- [40:39]
Becky Quick
Sometimes AT&T business, wireless connecting changes everything.
- [40:49]
Katie Kramer
You're listening to Squawk Pod from CNBC Houston.
- [40:54]
Becky Quick
Integrity. Good morning and happy Easter to everyone down on Earth.
- [40:58]
Jay Clayton
We wanted to kick off our Easter
- [41:00]
Becky Quick
Sunday by honoring our crewmate Jeremy Hansen. We have a long standing tradition in the astronaut office of the traditional astronaut.
- [41:12]
Katie Kramer
Here's Andrew Ross Sorkin.
- [41:16]
Becky Quick
The Artemis 2 astronauts set to swing around the moon and begin their journey home to Earth Today. The Orion capsule will pass out of contact with mission control for about 40 minutes. It's going to happen when it gets behind the moon on the other side. The total lunar flyby will take about six hours. The astronauts will get views of the moon's far side that were too difficult to see by the Apollo astronauts of the past. They're going to take turns snapping pictures of the lunar surface from about 4,000 miles up. And they're also expected to break Apollo 13's record for the furthest humans from Earth ever. So an exciting moment in the world of space and innovation and the future and gives you a little bit of hope when there's a lot of other things that are more complicated here on the ground.
- [42:06]
Joe Kernan
There's a lot of craters I think on that side, but you're going to find that much. Probably not still the moon.
- [42:12]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
We've been singing See youe on the Dark side of the Moon since. For the last week since we've been been talking about this. Get it out of my head.
- [42:20]
Joe Kernan
They got a flashlight. How do you think they can?
- [42:23]
Andrew Ross Sorkin
No idea.
- [42:24]
Joe Kernan
Spotlight.
- [42:27]
Katie Kramer
And that is Squawk Pod for today. Thanks for listening and thanks for starting a new week with us. Squawkbox is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin, all back together again. You can tune in weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 Eastern to get the smartest takes and analysis from our TV show right into your ears. Please follow Squawk Pod wherever you get your podcasts. Tell a friend to follow too. Have a great day. We'll meet you right back here tomorrow.
- [42:58]
Becky Quick
We are clear. Thanks, guys.
- [43:10]
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- [43:24]
Joe Kernan
Hey, what's your pin?
- [43:25]
Jay Clayton
Mm, 2538.
- [43:27]
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