Knicks Fan Gary Vee: I Want to Match Up with the Spurs 5/28/26

Summary

Squawk Pod Episode Summary

Knicks Fan Gary Vee: I Want to Match Up with the Spurs

Date: May 28, 2026
Host: CNBC (Joe Kernen, Becky Quick, Andrew Ross Sorkin)
Featured Guests: Marianne Bartels (Sanctuary Wealth), Gary Vaynerchuk (VaynerMedia CEO)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Squawk Pod covered several hot business topics before zooming in on the mania surrounding the New York Knicks’ first trip to the NBA Finals since 1999. Iconic superfan and media mogul Gary Vaynerchuk ("Gary Vee") joins to talk Knicks fandom, ticket prices, NBA market dynamics, and the modern intersection of paid media and sports culture. Other highlights include in-depth market outlooks with Marianne Bartels and debate over New York's new luxury real estate tax.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Business Headlines & Market Updates

• Middle East Tensions: U.S. military action against Iranian drone stations (02:25).
• Gemini Trust & Crypto Regulation: The CFTC seeks to vacate a $5 million penalty against Gemini in the wake of regulatory changes under the Trump administration. This change follows participation by the Winklevoss twins in Trump’s 2024 campaign (03:02).
• Google Engineer Fraud Case: Engineer Mikola Spagnolo was charged with using non-public Google search data to bet $1.2M on Polymarket (04:49).
  • “The highest overall month volume was President Donald Trump and Elon Musk remained the most consistently googled individuals.” — Becky Quick (06:16)
• New Pied-à-Terre Tax: New York to add a luxury real estate tax on second homes, sparking debate on effectiveness versus harm to the market (07:05).
  • “We’ll all sit around in five years from now and we’ll decide whether this is proven to be a terrible idea or a great idea.” — Andrew Ross Sorkin (08:02)

2. Market Deep Dive: Marianne Bartels

• Inflation and Market Phases: Bartels outlines three phases of inflation: boost, squeeze, and hyperinflation, cautioning that equities perform well until the hyperinflation phase (09:00, 15:54).
  • “There’s three phases of inflation… It’s not until you have the hyperinflation that you really have a problem.” — Marianne Bartels (09:00, 15:54)
• Secular Bull & Bear Markets: Predicts the current secular bull market peaking between 10,000-13,000 S&P by 2029-2030, with technology losing its leadership and international stocks rising (13:33–17:12).
  • “What I’m trying to get people to focus on is the long-term target that I have on the market, which is 10,000 to 13,000… by 2029, 2030.” — Marianne Bartels (13:33)
• Portfolio Strategy: Advises to diversify and gradually rotate out of U.S. tech stocks as international markets show secular growth.
  • “It’s one of the greatest times in history to diversify a U.S. portfolio outside of the United States.” — Marianne Bartels (17:06)
• Hyperinflation Risks: Discusses potential for US Treasury yields to normalize higher (5-6%) or even approach 10% in a severe inflation regime (18:38, 18:44–18:46).
• Investment Caution: Warns about the pitfalls of being either a “perma-bear” or market timer, stressing staying invested but aware of changing leadership sectors (20:28–21:46).

3. Knicks NBA Finals Mania: The Gary Vee Segment

Knicks Fandom & Ticket Prices

• Fan Devotion: Gary describes his hardcore Knicks fandom, traveling to away games and obsessing over the team (24:38–24:55).
  • “I’m a psycho hardcore fan.” — Gary Vaynerchuk (22:08, 24:38)
• Ticket Prices: Explains the record-breaking, meme-worthy ticket prices (upwards of $250,000 for courtside), attributing it to three decades of pent-up demand (25:20–25:26).
  • “When there’s that much demand pent up for two and a half, three decades, it’s funny and shocking to see how it plays out in price.” — Gary Vaynerchuk (24:55)
  • “Nobody was crying when those tickets were being given away two-for-one when we were winning 17 games. So…the reality is, yes, this is a pent-up energy of demand.” — Gary Vaynerchuk (34:10)
• Collectibles Market: Buying up Knicks player memorabilia, expecting value surge if Knicks win the title (25:30–25:56).

Knicks Culture & Team Management

• “This is Knicks Town”:
  • “New York loves the Giants, they love the Yankees, but this is Knicks town.” — Quoting Mike Francesa, Gary Vee (26:03)
• On Jim Dolan: Claims he never disliked Dolan, contrasting with the popular New York view (26:34).
• Preferred Finals Opponent: Wants Knicks to play the Spurs, citing better matchups and not wanting to root against Thunder’s SGA (Shai Gilgeous-Alexander) (26:53–27:08).
  • “I just don’t want to hate SGA. And that’s what’s going to happen if we play them… but I will hate him just on the record at the end of that series, it will be hate and it will be hate for forever.” — Gary Vaynerchuk (27:08)

Sports Business, Media, & Social Dynamics

• Investing vs. Gambling: Warns against conflating investing and gambling in the age of prediction markets (28:29–28:45).
  • “We need more detailed conversations of the difference between investing and gambling.” — Gary Vaynerchuk (28:45)
• NBA Finals Media Impact: Predicts massive media value for NBA/NBC/Peacock, driven by New York market (29:17).
• Measurement Evolution: Stresses the importance of cultural relevance and social influence over outdated Nielsen ratings (29:49–30:58).
  • “Nielsen ratings is not how Fortune 5000 are buying their media anymore.” — Gary Vaynerchuk (30:33)
• Organic Social Media & Paid Media Strategy: Describes how a piece of viral social content, when amplified with paid media, achieves higher conversion (31:41–31:59).
  • “Only if a piece of content is relevant can it get a million views… and relevance leads to consideration and consideration to purchase.” — Gary Vaynerchuk (31:59)
• Team Loyalty vs. Player Fandom: Laments the shift in younger fans following players, not teams, with playful banter about Becky’s son (33:08–33:17).
  • “Yes, I dislike those kids.” — Gary Vaynerchuk (33:14)

Classic New York Banter & Memorable Moments

• Friendly jabs between hosts and Gary about bandwagon fandom, self-esteem, and sports loyalties (33:22–35:15).
• Humorous allusions to psychoanalysis and sports insecurity (35:04–35:15).

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “There’s three phases of inflation… It’s not until you have the hyperinflation that you really have a problem.”
  — Marianne Bartels [09:00, 15:54]

• “When there’s that much demand pent up for two and a half, three decades, it’s funny and shocking to see how it plays out in price.”
  — Gary Vaynerchuk [24:55]

• “New York loves the Giants, they love the Yankees, but this is Knicks town.”
  — Gary Vaynerchuk quoting Mike Francesa [26:03]

• “We need more detailed conversations of the difference between investing and gambling.”
  — Gary Vaynerchuk [28:45]

• “Only if a piece of content is relevant can it get a million views… and relevance leads to consideration and consideration to purchase.”
  — Gary Vaynerchuk [31:59]

• “Yes, I dislike those kids.” (on young player-centric fans)
  — Gary Vaynerchuk [33:14]

• “Nobody was crying when those tickets were being given away two-for-one when we were winning 17 games. So…the reality is, yes, this is a pent-up energy of demand.”
  — Gary Vaynerchuk [34:10]

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Key Timestamps

• [01:15]: Google engineer betting fraud story
• [07:05]: New York’s luxury real estate tax
• [09:00]: Inflation phases and market discussion with Marianne Bartels
• [13:33]: S&P long-term target forecast
• [15:54]: Explaining inflation’s effect on equity markets
• [17:06]: Global diversification advice
• [24:38]: Gary Vee enters, Knicks ticket prices, and fan obsession
• [26:03]: “This is Knicks town”—the cultural phenomenon
• [28:29]: Investing vs. gambling in sports/markets
• [29:17]: NBA’s media/advertising opportunity
• [31:59]: How social media relevance translates to business results
• [33:14]: Banter regarding sports loyalty and “disliking” player-following fans

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Tone & Style

The episode features fast-paced, knowledgeable market discussion balanced with humor, deep sports fandom, and accessible explanations of complex financial and media concepts. Gary Vee’s segment is energetic, passionate, and peppered with good-natured teasing and New York bravado.

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For Listeners: Why This Episode Matters

• Business and markets: Learn where markets might be headed from experts, plus how inflation could affect everyday investors.
• NYC culture: Dive into one of the most exciting moments in Knicks history—with a masterclass in sports fandom.
• Media evolution: See how sports, digital trends, and advertising are converging to reshape how we watch and invest in events.
• Relatability: The show’s trademark banter and irreverent humor make for a lively and human take on money, markets, and major cultural moments.

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Perfect for: Knicks fans, investors, marketers, or anyone fascinated by the cross-section of sports, business, and media in 2026.

Transcript

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[Joe Kernen]

Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod, the biggest business headlines a luxury pied a terre tax coming to New York in July. Fertitta buying Caesars and a Google engineer has been charged with fraud over poly market trades.

[Becky Quick]

Michaela Spagnolo allegedly earned $1.2 million by betting on who would be revealed as the most searched person people of 2025 on Google.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Who was it?

[Joe Kernen]

And understanding the markets, the froth and your portfolio with sanctuary wealth chief investment strategist Marianne Bartels.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Everyone should be out of the market in 2030 in your view then?

[Marianne Bartels]

Well, not necessarily be out of the market. Be in something different than tech.

[Joe Kernen]

And finally, New York is alive with Knicks merch media mogul Gary Vaynerchuk.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

New York loves the Giants, they love the Yankees, but this is Knicks town.

[Joe Kernen]

$250,000 for courtside seats.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

When there's that much demand pent up for two and a half, three decades, it's funny and shocking to see how it plays out in price.

[Joe Kernen]

It is Thursday, May 28th. Squawk Pod begins right now.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Stand Becky by in three, two, one.

[Becky Quick]

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Squawk Box right here on cnbc. We are live from the NASDAQ market site in Times Square. I'm Becky Quick along with Joe Ker and Andrew Ross Sorkin.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Meantime, now to the latest from the Middle East. US Forces conducting military strikes against Iran. This after Tehran launched drones at commercial ships in the Strait of Hormuz. And U.S. officials say that American forces shot down Iranian drones and then hit a drone control station located near the strait. Administration officials characterizing the attacks as limited and defensive. They're saying in nature not an escalation that would collapse the cease fire overnight. Kuwait saying it was intercepting hostile missile and drone attacks after a period of calm under the cease fire. So here we are talking about a cease fire and yet at some level there's not a cease fire.

There are things that, yeah, I don't know when, when it becomes not a cease fire, what that takes the US Commodity Futures Trading Commission has asked a judge to vacate the agency's $5 million penalty against the Gemini Trust Company. It's a crypto exchange founded by Tyler and Cameron Winklevoss. The CFTC said that under the Biden administration the agency brought a lawsuit against a Gemini against Gemini based on a whistleblower account. That was incredible. Now they're saying Gemini settled the charges in January of 2025 during the final weeks of the Biden administration. And the CFTC and Gemini say they've agreed that the settlement should be vacated, citing the CFTC's changed policy on crypto enforcement now under President Trump. The Winklevoss twins, by the way, donated to President Trump's election campaign in 2024. But an attorney for Gemini told CNBC this case should have never been brought and we're thankful that the CFTC has joined us in seeking to right this wrong. Separately, the White House is reviewing a CFTC proposal that would provide guidelines to for the prediction markets. Event contracts provided by online platforms like Kalshi and Polymarket allow users, as you know, to place bets on the outcome of a variety of topics, sports, politics and business. And the CFTC has been staking out its turf against states that have been trying to regulate firms as sportsbooks or casinos. And as we like to do and need to do for disclosure. CNBC and Kalsha have a commercial relationship that includes customer acquisition and a minority investment.

[Becky Quick]

A Google software engineer has been charged with fraud and money laundering over bets that he allegedly made last year on polymarket. Based on non public data, 36 year old Mikola Spagnolo allegedly earned $1.2 million by betting on who would be revealed as the most searched person or most searched people of 2025. Google. That information wasn't available to the public at the time. Spagnolo is an Italian citizen based in Zurich. He was arrested yesterday and appeared before a federal judge in New York. Reports say that he did not enter a plea and was released on bail. Google said it's working with law enforcement and that the employee has been placed on leave.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Who was it?

[Becky Quick]

Oh, the most searched person People I don't know people most searched people let's Taylor, that's Epstein.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Guess I don't know what the answer is while Becky's looking at that. The Trump administration pursuing funding deals with a group of drone companies. That's according to a Wall Street Journal report that says it's part of an effort to increase domestic production and lower the cost of increasingly vital weapons. Deal talks are still in a negotiation phase, but could include both debt and equity stakes by the U.S. government. Among the companies under consideration, performance drone works unusual machines and Nero's Technologies Unusual machine shares they are soaring. But the company has a market cap below $1 billion. And usual machines are not just unusual, it's actually the name of the company.

[Becky Quick]

The highest overall month volume was President Donald Trump and Elon Musk remained the most consistently googled individuals averaging roughly 15.96 million for President Trump and 10.96 million for for Elon Musk.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Sense.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And shifted gears but Andrew's talking about drones. So speaking of drones, an interesting new role for Russian central bankers. The country has passed a law authorizing staff at the central bank to be armed with systems used to repel drone attacks. The employees can use those systems to down unmanned aerial vehicle attacks without the involvement of any special forces. And the move comes as Ukraine's military has been conducting longer range drone strikes within Russian territory.

New York State lawmakers have approved a tax on luxury second homes in New York City. That's the pied a terror tax that New York Mayor Zoran Mandani has been pushing for months now. It's going to take effect on July 1. It could add hundreds of thousands of dollars each year to the tax bills of some very high end condo owners. Real estate executives and business leaders have pushed back saying the tax will be costly to implement and won't provide much bang for its buck. But it sounds like we are here. I imagine there could be some lawsuits and other things that will but I, I think we're it's happening I guess condos.

[Becky Quick]

There's the question as to whether those buildings because they're the ones that are paying it. The bill is condos or the co ops. He said that we're paying the building would pay it. And then this question if that gets passed on to others. But just figuring out when it would go it's a co op so when it would go up and if real estate prices come down, how quickly taxes would go down.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The big question I think we talked about this. It was a very smart story in the New York Times about a month ago. They talked about London. And when London raised taxes on the very high end, they did something similar to this. And then you saw real estate in London has just been a flatline story. So now there's lots of other factors. You could look at Brexit, you could look at all sorts of other things and say, are those, are those tied? So we'll all sit around in five years from now and we'll decide whether this is proven to be a terrible idea or a great idea.

More money to blow, I guess on, you know, ineffective.

[Becky Quick]

If they way, what is it, 500 billion that they're anticipating raise. There's a question whether it will raise that or not or if it will

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

sell is I'm sure they'll use it well.

Cheese will be next.

[Joe Kernen]

Coming up on Squawk Pod, a casino deal worth billions in the market's record rise. Will it continue or should we be bracing for a fall? Longtime market watcher Marianne Bartels is next.

[Marianne Bartels]

There's three phases of inflation. You have the inflation boost, which we're in right now, where prices go up and that helps revenue and earnings. And then inflation continues and then you start getting somewhat of a sweep squeeze. But equities can do well in that environment. It's not until you have the hyperinflation that you really have a problem.

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[Joe Kernen]

You're listening to Squawk Pod from cnbc.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We got some breaking news to bring you. Frittata Entertainment reaching a deal. I do Tillman, he's the U.S. fertitta. He's the ambassador to Italy right now.

And you have a deal with CNBC

deal to buy Caesars Entertainment for $31 per share in cash. It's about $5.7 billion. That excludes debt. Tillman's company owns the Golden Nugget hotel and casinos. Also Landry's restaurant chain, the NBA's Houston Rockets. By the way, the corner store restaurant downtown, which I think is like the hottest restaurant in all of New York City right now, along with a whole bunch of others. So this is a pretty interesting transaction. If you look at Caesars over, I don't know, we can go back in time. I don't know what you think. Five years. It's a symbol.

Yeah.

It's easy. CZR is the stock. You go back, by the way, it was like 100 bucks in the middle of the crisis. I said pandemic. We're now obviously in the, in the 20s here, 2020, basing the premium that

they're talking about on the unaffected stock price because it obviously, yeah, it's run up as this also they're calling it a $17 billion transaction. $12 billion is assumed debt. Right. So just the $31 a share cash is what you said, five point taking that company private.

It'll be interesting.

Minneapolis Fred. President Neel Kashkari speaking to CNBC overnight in Japan. He said the Fed would continue taking a balanced approach to its dual mandate of price stability and full employment. He echoed his previous warning about the dangers of inflation, saying that the longer it remains elevated, the greater risk that inflation expectations become unanchored and move higher. Speaking to CNBC at the same conference in Japan, Chicago Fed President Austan Goolsbee said energy inflation tied to the war in Iran has lasted longer than expected. And then yesterday Fed Governor Lisa Cook said inflation is headed in the wrong direction and she'd be prepared to raise interest rates if that were to continue. Joining us now, Marianne Bartel's Sanctuary wealth chief investment strategist. You had a 7,500 year end s and P target. We're already there. You're not raising it, but you're saying that the next upward level to watch is 7,800. You get to keep your cake. You get to eat a little bit of it. What are you doing?

[Marianne Bartels]

Well, I do think we should get a pullback. What I'm trying to get people to focus on is the long term target that I have on the market, which is 10,000 to 13,000. I think that's where we're truly tracking by 2400. By 2029. 20.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

2020 now. Okay.

[Marianne Bartels]

We got a few more years.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You should do a target at a time. You should do one or the other.

[Marianne Bartels]

Well, I gave the target of 10,000 to 13,000 somewhere, peaking around 2029, 2030.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Okay.

[Marianne Bartels]

And that will end the secular bull market that we're in, that we started in 2013.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

How long will the. Will there be a secular bear then?

[Marianne Bartels]

You go into a secular bear market 15 to 20 years.

[Becky Quick]

What ends the bull market? It's not generally high prices that end the bull market. It's usually something.

[Marianne Bartels]

Any time you peak, you know, you had it in 2000, it was the tech bubble. We had a great run, but we peaked in 2007. And then you go into the secular bear market of the great financial crisis. So every time it's going to be something different.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But three years, Marianne. Well, it was not a 10 year. It was not a secular bear market. We've gone straight up from 780 in 1981 to where we are now.

[Marianne Bartels]

So the secular bear market was from 2000 until 2013. That period was a sideways trading range. You couldn't break out and hold a new high. We tried to do that in 2000,

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

which in the S and P. In

[Marianne Bartels]

the S and P. Okay. And then in 2013, you cleared the high. Then you enter a whole new secular trend. So we've been in a secular bull market, Right.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I think we've been in a secular bull since 1981. I mean, I remember in 19, what, 59, we were at a thousand. And how long did it take to get back above a thousand? 19.

[Marianne Bartels]

Well, if you, if you look at,

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

you know, back to 1969, I think for, for the entire terrible. Remember the 1970s, the.

[Marianne Bartels]

I have some memory of the 1970.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The nifty 50. Like American Express was like a $40 stock. It went to like 2. I mean, it was miserable in 1974, right?

[Marianne Bartels]

Yes.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And we didn't get back above 1000 until 1982, I think. So 1982, 69 to 82.

[Marianne Bartels]

82 was a major bottom. And you did have a secular bull Market.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I can tell you why it happened in the 70s. That's why we're asking what will with AI and technology and all these great.

[Marianne Bartels]

I do think we've started an inflation cycle. So I've mapped out that there's three phases of inflation. You have the inflation boost which we're in right now where prices go up and that helps revenue and earnings. And we're seeing it in abundance in technology. And then inflation continues and then you start getting somewhat of a squeeze. But equities can do well in that environment. Environment. It's not until you have the hyperinflation that you really have a problem.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So you. Everyone should be out of the market in 2030 in your view then?

[Marianne Bartels]

Well not necessarily be out of the market. Be in something different than tech. So I think the early stages of what's going to be the new leadership have already emerged. It's going to be small cap, it's going to be commodities energy. And the real big one for me Joe is the international markets. I haven't said to be be invested in international markets for a secular trend my entire career. And I think there's a new secular bull market that started in Japan. It started also in Europe and in emerging markets ex China. So I think the opportunity set to diversify a U.S. portfolio outside of the United States. It's one of the greatest times I think in history.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Global equities will not be in a secular bear market from 2029 on.

[Marianne Bartels]

International markets.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

International will not.

[Marianne Bartels]

Correct.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And you're really talking about US technology sector being in the secular bear.

[Marianne Bartels]

Correct.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

All right, so then it.

[Marianne Bartels]

And because of the market cap it drives the average.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So the entire S and P will be correct.

[Marianne Bartels]

But there's other things that are emerging and it really looks like a repeat heat of what we saw in 1999 and 2000.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well that as I say I don't

[Marianne Bartels]

the leadership from quite as horrible. Yeah, energy. You know Rich Bernstein was pounding the table back then in 99 to buy energy stocks which was a big controversy because the. The technology stocks were on a tear.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Right. Your inflation forecast that the hyperinflation. Is this related to this $40 trillion in debt and counting by the year 2029.

[Marianne Bartels]

Well that I don't know exactly what will be.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What is that? Is that the problem?

[Marianne Bartels]

I do think we have an inflation

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

issue and because of the debtor or because of something else?

[Marianne Bartels]

I think the whole secular trend in. Because from 1980 down to 2021 we were in a deflationary event. I think that ended around the COVID period and now where we've started a new inflationary cycle that can actually last for 10, 15, 20 years.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Where does that put the 10 year back in the 5 to 10% range there for a longer, longer term, you

[Marianne Bartels]

can get back up to 10%.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

10%.

[Marianne Bartels]

But I think now we're normalizing somewhere around this 5 to 6% percent. But we've. Okay, going to technical analysis on the 10 year, we formed what's called a triangle pattern for six. On the upside, if you break that and sustain it, then you're going up to five and higher.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Right.

[Marianne Bartels]

But if we break to the downside of the triangle, which is around three, six.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Right. All right, Mary, Are going lower. This is not a luxury belief that you have, because I will be here and I will remember in 2029 and 2030. And if this doesn't happen, we're going to say, marianne, that's fine.

[Marianne Bartels]

And that's fair. Okay, that's fair.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

All right.

Because just, you know, it's way out there. You got four years before we can. You can be proven wrong.

[Marianne Bartels]

Well, what I'm trying to tell clients is not to panic.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I'm panicked.

[Marianne Bartels]

And to stay invested.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I am panicked.

[Becky Quick]

If you think there's a crash coming after that, though, will you tell people to get out when it hits 10,000?

[Marianne Bartels]

That's my biggest. That's my biggest concern. Will I even see when the peak is coming? And the risk is you get out

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

early, you are 10,000.

[Becky Quick]

The 13,000 is a pretty broad range.

[Marianne Bartels]

It is.

[Becky Quick]

And is it timing? Is it other signals that you'll be looking for at that point?

[Marianne Bartels]

Well, you're looking for, obviously, you're looking for euphoria, you're looking for very high valuations. One of the other hallmarks of a major peak is a very levered market. Tremendous leverage in the system. We have leverage from time to time. But when you're reaching peaks in markets, the leverage is extraordinary.

[Becky Quick]

But basically what you're telling people is be fully invested now and then be

[Marianne Bartels]

on the lookout, be always fully invested, but know what you own.

[Becky Quick]

I don't want to be fully invested if the market's going to tank.

[Marianne Bartels]

Like you don't. You don't want to own what's going down. And basically what I'm saying is the leadership is tech. It's led by semiconductors. And that's going to continue to drive the markets, I think, out into the end of the decade. And that when that leadership ends, that's when you peak in markets.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So here's the problem if we go back 100 years. Charles Merrill, co founder of Merrill Lynch 1928 told everybody to get out of the market because he said 1929 is going to be bad. Anybody who is his client got out of the market. Except for the fact that between when he made the comment In 1928 and October of 1929, stock market went up another 90%.

[Becky Quick]

So they were all mad at him.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Correct.

[Marianne Bartels]

And that's the hard part.

[Becky Quick]

And the stock market, even though it went down, didn't go down 90%. So you still lost money.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

That Exactly.

The biggest problem with Perma Bears is that it by the time they are finally right, the market never even comes down to where they first got negative. It's like usually doubled from where they were negative. And then they, they try to. I mean I can name there are some famous perma bears that but that and they're. They're hilarious. They're still.

[Marianne Bartels]

That's why you should always have a diversified portfolio and not have a concentrated position.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We won't need to mention names, but Marianne, thank you.

[Marianne Bartels]

Thank you all.

[Joe Kernen]

Coming up, have you heard about the New York Knicks? This Cleveland Cavaliers fan has heard quite enough, but I guess some people are into it.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'm a psycho hardcore fan.

[Joe Kernen]

Gary Vaynerchuk is often courtside at MSG and his love for the team runs deep.

[Becky Quick]

Gary, you're old school. You like a team. I would say kids today like players and they follow players and they follow them to different teams.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes, I dislike those kids.

[Becky Quick]

That's my son.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, that's my. I do not like your son.

[Joe Kernen]

The eye popping ticket prices, the pent up demand and how paid media can capitalize on social media moments. Right after this break on Squawk Pod.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

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[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

This is Squawk Pod Stand Andrew by Up and Andrew Q. You're watching Squawk Box right here on cnbc. I'm Andrew Osorkin along with Joe Kernan and Becky Quick. New York Knicks, they have reached the NBA Finals for the first time since the 1999 and shares of Madison Square Garden sports are at an all time high. Joining us right now to discuss Knicks mania and the business around the NBA Finals is Gary Vaynerchuk VaynerMedia CEO Vayner ex chairman Good morning to you. When you came in, I said you get your ticks yet? You said you haven't locked them in. So what are you going to pay for these things?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Whatever the market says I need to pay for.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But so have you seen some of the prices?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, I missed it. Of course I've seen the prices. I mean, first of all, let's talk about how diehard I actually am. Yeah, I'm going, I'm talking about Oklahoma City and San Antonio. I'm going to game one. I'm flying to game one. So first of all, I'm going to game one where I have a funny feeling the tickets will be a little bit cheaper.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yes.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And then what's that? Maybe, maybe, you know, I'm a Jersey boy from the streets, don't bougie me up. And yeah, it's fascinating to watch and it really, you know, so much of what you all talk about here, market dynamics, it's interesting to watch play out when there's that much demand pent up for two and a half, three decades. It's funny and shocking to see how it plays out in price.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What, what's the highest price you've seen so far?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I think the, the big meme the last two days, right, was a 250,000.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I said something like that. Yeah. What about all your collectibles?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well, that's been great. I mean my son and I, brother, others like the amount of Brunson and Karl Anthony Towns. I've been buying up Josh Hartz and OG Anunoby's because if this team wins, I mean we're still talking about a dunk that John starks made almost 30, you know, years ago. 30 plus years ago. 30 years ago. And we didn't even win a title. If this team wins the title, all the collectibles around it go through the roof.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

If they win, yes. It changes everything.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

If they lose your pain, we just go back to, back to the start.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I want to remind everybody, all those Knicks that we go crazy for at the Garden, besides Wall Clyde Frazier, none of them won either, you know, getting to the finals. And Mike Francesa said something on sports radio 40 years ago that I'll never forget. He said, New York loves the Giants, they love the Yankees, but this is Knicks town and I think you can really see it play out. There's just something different that happens when the Knicks make a run. And, and it's, it's obviously enthralling to everybody who's actually a die hard.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Do you, do you like Jim Dolan now?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I never disliked Jim Dolan. Truly. Truly.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Most people in New York City who were Knicks fans thought that this was like one of the most mismanaged teams in the history of basketball.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Andrew. I'm not most people. Like, I'm just really strong and not being overly emotional about things that I.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

In your heart.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Speaking of heart, who would you prefer the Knicks to face?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

The Spurs. I personally think we match up better

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

with the spurs because of that guy, honestly.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Can I tell you why I want to match up with the Spurs? I just don't want to hate sga.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It's impossible.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And that's what's going to happen if we play them. The flippity flopping like it just will fore. I mean, you know, and he's a good kid and I like him and like, I just don't want to hate him, but I will hate him just on the record at the end of that series, it will be hate and it will be hate for forever.

[Becky Quick]

So let's just look at records though. The dig has been that the Western Conference is so much better than the Eastern Conference. You cannot argue with the last 11 games that the Knicks won. The streak that they went on by sweeping both the Cavs and the Sixers is amazing. But if you look at the record for the Knicks versus the Eastern Conference this season it was 1812. For Oklahoma City versus the Eastern Conference it was 23 7. And for the spurs it was 266 and 4.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Are.

[Becky Quick]

Is the west that much better than the East?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I mean, the Thunder has definitely been the best team this year. So, you know, I think they are. I mean, we beat the spurs multiple times this year. Like, we match up with the Spurs. You know, Mitch and Kat know what to do with Wemby in a way that most teams can't match up.

[Becky Quick]

That's interesting.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And so you know this. Every single event, every fight, every sporting event, styles make fights. It's matchups. It's also timing. It's also timing. And those two teams, it's very important that San Antonio wins game six. They beat each other up and set us up.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Prediction markets, you play.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'm sorry?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Prediction markets, you play.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I don't.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You don't.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I. I'm. You know, it's really funny. I'm sure you. I mean, I know. Excuse me, I consume this. I know you guys talk about this all the time. I think we're in a very interesting time in popular culture where we need more detailed conversations of the difference between investing and gambling.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yep.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I agree with that. And so I don't. I'm not against it. Anybody can do whatever they want as long as it's legal. Go have fun. For me, the way I prediction market is I'd rather go out and buy, you know, a trading card that I think is a collectible and valuable if I think something's gonna happen versus pure gambling. Not that I'm against it. I did plenty of it in my 20s in Vegas. But not. No, I do okay.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And as somebody who I think understands media better than most, this is going to be a big finals in large part because New York's a huge market.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

This is the biggest market in the world.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

This is going to be huge for NBC, for Peacock. Yes, this is actually. This is going to work for them. Yes, it is. There had been a question about whether they had overpaid for the NBA because regular season ratings don't hold up. People seem to be watching the clips. We love to watch the dunks. We watch it on social. But people are not necessarily willing to sit through two and a half, three hours of a game.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes. But once again, when we talk about things that are nuanced. But advertisers are buying the media.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Right.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

And obviously, to your point, if the ratings don't sustain, then over time, they won't. But this has been monumentally large for the people that paid up for sports. And let's call it a very important thing that's happening for everybody that's watching. We're going into a barbell syndrome in business and society with extreme AI and extreme digitalization, the rise of analog is exploding. You know, live sporting events, you know, music festivals, AAU tournaments, and run clubs. And so sports is one of the few things that is a safer bet. And, you know, ratings are also funny. Let's. Let's call a spade a spade. Like, Nielsen ratings is not how Fortune 5000 are buying their media anymore.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Okay, so how are they buying the media?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

They're buying their media more and more. Thank God. Finally, I've been on this show and on the Internet for 15 years pushing social media's value. They're looking at views achieved organically. They're looking at cultural relevance. They're looking at association. This network's doing a good job with live event integration. I think they're looking at it a little more holistically than, oh, it got a 4.7 last night. Let's buy commercials on Seinfeld or Mash.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

When you look though, at the numbers on social today and you see next to a video or a reel or whatever, some number, do you say to yourself, someone really watched that, or do you say that those. Like right now in the news business.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

There's a lot of influencers, news, news folks who've gone to YouTube and they'll tell you, oh, my goodness, look at our numbers. We have millions of people watching. But for whatever reason, they don't seem to have the same cultural relevance. Frankly, then people. Sometimes a segment on linear television will have that looks like it has meaningfully lower ratings.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I mean, the way TV measures viewers is definitely more flawed than the way social.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So that's my question.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, but to your point, do I think a million views, when a view is counted as three seconds, is a million views? No, I do not. But what I do know is when you take a piece of content on social that gets a million views and you put media behind it against something that's measurable.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Now you're talking about paid media.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

That's right. Okay, that I can tell you something that gets a million views on social converts better in CAC and LTV and ROAS than something that gets 100,000, which speaks to the most important thing happening in media right now, which is how do views happen? Only if a piece of content is relevant can it get a million views versus 100 views. And relevance leads to consideration and consideration to purchase. So when you understand how to use organic social media, first to then put working media against it, against a business result.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Now you understand, okay, what NBA team is doing the best job on social media?

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I have no idea.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

No idea. I didn't know. I Didn't know if you thought the Knicks were doing a great job or not.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

First of all, there's so much content made by so many people. I'm not even sure if it's the Knicks or Knicks muse or, you know, fly fish club or what have you. Like you don't know where it's coming from to some degree. Also, I'm a psycho hardcore fan. I am in like many people watching right now. Our entire equilibrium is off. I'm not my normal version right now. I am completely off the rocker, excited and I'm not analyzing the data as well as I normally do. I need two weeks to get through this.

[Becky Quick]

Gary, you're old school.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes.

[Becky Quick]

You like a team. I would say kids today like players and they follow players and they follow them to different teams.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yes. I dislike those kids.

[Becky Quick]

It's my son.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Yeah, that's my. I do not like your son. What do you want for me? I. You know what? I. But you know what?

[Becky Quick]

But they, they were the ones who have the fire. Nico hats.

[Marianne Bartels]

Yeah.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Listen, I love. Let me say who those kids are better than the kids I grew up with in the 90s. Greg Di Tomasso, my friend is watching right now. He grew up in Jersey. Why was he a Bulls fan?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Because Michael Jordan was the best player in the history of basketball.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Greg was insecure and needed his self esteem.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I love you, Greg.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Greg needed your self esteem for something that wasn't you. And so you were a Bulls fan when you should be a Knicks fan. And now you're not enjoying this moment.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I think the final thing.

Okay, I want to thank Greg. Greg, I feel you, abc. I feel you.

[Becky Quick]

Right?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Abc.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Do they get. Do ABC get everything? It's ESPN and abc. You might be right.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I don't think.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Not Peacock, he's.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I'm sorry.

Yeah, yeah.

Abc.

Abc.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Andrew was talking about the last series.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yes, I was here and I can't. You had some lean years, my friend.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Well, this is the point, you know. You know one of the things that everyone's crying about ticket prices, right? I'm like, this is 30 years pent up market demand. Nobody was crying when those tickets were being given away. Two for one, when we were winning 17 games. So, you know, the reality is, is that yes, this is a pent up energy of demand.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

If I visually don't like seeing some of particular fans like right on the sidelines, should I not hold that against. I shouldn't hold that against the Knicks.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

No, you can't. Listen, you can, you know, you know. Yeah, I know. The reverse, actually. By the way, obviously, as a New York fan, I hate all the Boston teams. I actually have a lot of Boston friends. You know what I mean? So I think you're doing it reverse.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Okay.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

You're mad at Nick fans.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Some of them might.

[Becky Quick]

He doesn't like who sits in the front.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

What's that?

[Becky Quick]

He doesn't like some of the.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And I'm not talking about Spike. I'm talking about some of the other ones.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Because he thinks that you're a hater. I'm a hater deep down. Where does that come from?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I try not to be.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Now, the real question is, where does that come from? Is that a level of insecurity?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I was talking about my shrink yesterday.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Was it insecurity? It's always insecure.

[Becky Quick]

Otherwise known as Claude.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah, otherwise known as Claude.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Like, life is binary. Self esteem, insecurity. Self esteem, insecurity. That's the morning message.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

All right, Gary, thank you.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Greg D. Tomaso.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Greg, we want to thank you. And you know what? I feel you. I just want him to know that.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Is that because you're a Golden State warriors fan?

[Becky Quick]

No, because.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

No, because I was a Knicks fan, but when Jordan was Jordan, there was

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

a reason he was a bandwagon fan

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

is a reason to be a fan.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'm out of here. That's by Jerry. I've always liked him, but that hurt. That's wrong, brother.

[Joe Kernen]

And that is Squawk Pod for today. Thanks for listening. Squawkpox is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Tune in weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 Eastern to get the smartest takes and analysis from our TV show right into your ears. Follow Squawk Pod wherever you get your podcasts. Meet you right back here tomorrow.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We are clear. Thanks, guys.

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