Making America Affordable: Hakeem Jeffries & Dr. Oz 8/14/25

Summary

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Squawk Pod Episode Summary

Episode Title:
Making America Affordable: Hakeem Jeffries & Dr. Oz
Date:
August 14, 2025
Hosts:
Joe Kernan, Andrew Ross Sorkin (Becky Quick off)
Special Guests:
Hakeem Jeffries (House Minority Leader), Dr. Mehmet Oz (CMS Administrator)

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the pressing question of affordability in America, dissecting the economic landscape amidst major shifts in policy, healthcare, and politics under the Trump administration. In-depth, combative interviews with Rep. Hakeem Jeffries and Dr. Mehmet Oz cover topics from the impact of tariffs, healthcare reform, Social Security, and Medicaid changes, to urban affordability crises and rural healthcare funding. The conversation weaves macroeconomic data, on-the-ground realities, and sharp ideological divides into a lively morning roundtable.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Market Update & Fed Speculation

• [02:28–03:51] The show opens with a relaxed take on market conditions:
  • The Russell 2000 is on a winning streak, VIX is at record lows—"People seem to be very chill. That's like the chill O meter right there." (Andrew Ross Sorkin, 02:50)
  • Cryptocurrency prices are high (Bitcoin at $121,684), tied to interest rate speculation and global economic risk appetite.
  • President Trump is set to name the next Fed Chair early, expressing desire for interest rates "three or four percentage points lower" than current levels, leading hosts to joke about negative rates and economic distortion.

AI, Browser Wars, and Tech Models

• [07:51–12:09] The hosts discuss the challenges and nuances of AI development:
  • Chinese startup Deepseek faces setbacks working with Huawei chips, validating Nvidia’s continued dominance.
  • The conversation includes playful banter about AI model quality, with Andrew expressing skepticism about GPT-5, comparing AI development to "baking a pie—you don't really know [the result] until you open the oven" (Andrew, 10:10).
  • Debate branches off to discuss the competitive landscape (Claude, Llama, Grok) and the capital required to play in AI.
• [15:50–18:46] A sideline on Perplexity’s business model:
  • Andrew explains that Perplexity’s value is as a smart aggregator of AI APIs, not a developer of foundation models, raising questions about business moats.
  • Joe jokes about generational tech changes—“There were no phones… just big Gordon Gekko ones. When I got one, people thought, well, women became interested in me. Finally.” (Joe Kernan, 19:19)

Politics & Policy: Interview with Hakeem Jeffries

• [21:54–36:55]
  • Tariffs & Inflation: Sorkin challenges Jeffries on Democratic predictions regarding tariffs leading to recession, which has not materialized. Jeffries maintains costs have not come down and inflation remains a concern—"Costs aren't going down, they're going up." (Jeffries, 22:50)
  • Economic Performance: Joe lists strong market data: low inflation, full employment, stock market highs, trade deals, and foreign investment—questioning Democratic catastrophe narratives.
  • Democratic Platform: Jeffries lays out:
    "We believe in a strong floor and no ceiling. In America, you work hard, play by the rules, you should be able to live the good life." (Jeffries, 25:19)
    • Calls recent Republican healthcare legislation "the largest attack on health care in American history," predicting closures in hospitals and rises in costs.
    • Claims nutritional assistance is being gutted—"Food is being ripped out of the mouths of hungry children, veterans and seniors..." (26:02)
    • On social programs: “Protect Social Security and Medicare because they are earned benefits, not entitlement programs. Don’t try to devastate people.” (Jeffries, 29:52)
  • NYC Mayoral Politics and Socialism:
    • Sorkin presses Jeffries on the rise of openly socialist candidates in NYC. Jeffries emphasizes a pragmatic approach: "We have to build our way out of this problem... That also means a meaningful partnership with the private sector." (31:01)
    • Jeffries avoids direct criticism or endorsement, highlighting demand/supply imbalance as the real obstacle.
  • Attacks on Free Enterprise:
    • Jeffries lambastes Trump’s “pay to play scheme” and interference with independent institutions, calling the decision to oust the BLS Director “a disgrace” and “an attack on the free market based economy.” (33:07)
    • Defends Democrats by contrasting Trump’s power with past Dem “attacks” on CEOs, suggesting a “cult-like situation” among Republicans unwilling to criticize Trump.

Notable Quotes from Hakeem Jeffries:

• "You pass one big ugly bill ... represents the largest attack on health care in American history." (01:31, 25:19)
• "The Trump administration has unleashed the largest pay to play scheme in modern American history and everybody in corporate America knows it." (20:07, 33:07)
• "We are a separate and co-equal branch of government. We don't work for Donald Trump..." (36:14)

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Healthcare Reform: Dr. Mehmet Oz Interview

• [38:38–45:39]
  • Medicare Prior Authorization and Technology:
    • Dr. Oz calls for smarter, more technology-driven prior authorization, likening it to immediate debit transactions—“We need something equivalent... We're not there yet, but that's the goal.” (39:40)
    • Pledges most insurance providers will digitize, streamline, and reduce required authorizations by next year.
  • Medicaid Funding and Work Requirements:
    • Pushes back on Democratic outcry over Medicaid cuts: “We're going to spend $200 billion more on Medicaid... It's reprehensible to criticize the President on this very earnest effort to save Medicaid.” (42:40)
    • Advocates for traditional eligibility (children, elderly, disabled) and instituting reasonable work/volunteer requirements for able-bodied adults—“No one’s going to be happy sitting at home 6.1 hours a day doing nothing.” (43:08)
  • Rural Healthcare:
    • Announces a 50% funding boost for rural healthcare, establishing a “rural health transformation fund” with $10 billion in new grants each year for 5 years. (44:46)
  • Overall Philosophy:
    • “You can't be a wealthy nation without being a healthy nation.” (39:55)

Notable Quotes from Dr. Oz:

• "When done correctly, prior authorization is incredibly helpful... a tool. You can build a house or you can do damage." (39:40)
• "It's reprehensible to criticize the President on this... very earnest effort to save Medicaid." (42:44)

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Memorable Moments

• Chillometer vs. Chill O Meter:
  • Andrew and Joe’s running gag about market calmness metrics. (03:03–03:18)
• R2D2 AI Model Jokes:
  • Joe quips about the next-gen R2 AI chip being like Star Wars’ R2D2, to which Andrew replies, “Except that it’s not ready yet... and you’re going to need an Nvidia chip to make it work.” (09:35–09:53)
• Tech Nostalgia and Status Symbols:
  • Joe reminisces about the Gordon Gekko cellphone era as a milestone of social status. (19:19–19:38)
• Partisan Sparring:
  • The hosts debate definitions of socialism, industrial policy, and economic disaster with clear, pointed ideological lines.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Market & Economic Update:
  02:28–06:57
• AI and Tech Modeling Discussion:
  07:51–12:09, 15:50–18:46
• Interview – Hakeem Jeffries:
  21:54–36:55
• Interview – Dr. Mehmet Oz:
  38:38–45:39
• Notable Quotes/Jokes:
  03:03 (chillometer), 09:35 (R2 chip), 19:19 (Gekko phone)

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Tone and Style

The episode is energetic, fast-paced, and sharp-tongued—balancing in-depth policy critique with playful repartee. Joe’s skepticism meets Andrew’s methodical inquiries; the dialogue with guests is pointed and often combative, in keeping with CNBC’s tradition.

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Conclusion

This Squawk Pod delivers a comprehensive snapshot of the complex, high-stakes debates defining America’s economic, healthcare, and political landscape in 2025. Through insightful guest interviews and spirited host commentary, the episode dives into the practicalities, consequences, and philosophies shaping the affordability crisis—and keeps listeners both informed and thoroughly entertained.

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Transcript

[Joe Kernan]

Our state has changed a lot in the last 140 years. We know because Multicare has been here guided by a single making our communities healthier. That comes from making courageous decisions, partnering with local communities to grow programs and services, and expanding healthcare access to those who need it most. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn more@ multicare.org.

[Keith Lansford]

This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] MarketUpdatePodcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Bring in show music, please.

[Joe Kernan]

Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pot. It's the economy, stupid. Where the data tells us our money is and what that means for policy.

People assume it's that we're in a tailwind environment right now, not in a headwind. And that makes you nervous?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Always.

[Joe Kernan]

Hakeem Jeffries, the House minority leader on the Democrats response to the quickly moving Trump agenda that is remaking America.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

You pass one big ugly bill that's now law on a partisan basis. That represents the largest attack on health care in American history. People all across the country are going to experience increased premiums, co pays and prescription drug prices. That's a problem.

[Joe Kernan]

On this 90th anniversary of Social Security, Mehmet Oz joins us. He's gone from TV doctor to running the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid.

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

It's reprehensible to criticize the president on this, I think very earnest effort to save Medicaid to allow it to provide care to our most vulnerable.

[Joe Kernan]

Plus, the Apprentice Federal Reserve edition. And it's good to learn new things.

You know, I lived in a period where there were no pagers even. There were no phones. There weren't even flip phones.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I know.

[Joe Kernan]

It's Thursday, August 14th, 2025. Squawk Pod begins right now.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Stand Andre by in three, two, one.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You Andrew. Good morning and welcome to Squawk Box right here on cnbc. We are live at the NASDAQ markets at Times Square. Mandras Sorkin along with Joe Kern and Becky is off. Take a look at the small cap Russell 2000. It's coming off a 2% gain yesterday. That's on pace now for its best week since last November and only about 5.5% now off of its record high. The Vix on the other hand, falling to its lowest level since late last year. People seem to be very chill. That's like the chill O meter right there.

[Joe Kernan]

Is it a chill O meter or a chillometer?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I like chillometer.

[Joe Kernan]

Chillometer.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Chilometer. But it's really chill O meter.

[Joe Kernan]

You don't call it a speedometer.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It's a chillometer.

[Joe Kernan]

Chillometer, yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Chill O meter. Anyway, take a look at crypto. We'll see whether people are chilling that or not. Bitcoin 121,684 ether still sitting $4,760. They're not chilling there.

[Joe Kernan]

You could say for bitcoin, either it's because it's risk on or you could say it's risk on because of a rate cut. And rate cuts also are what the base theoretically easing. And it makes the dollar weaker and makes bitcoin more attractive long term.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

All the things, all those things.

[Joe Kernan]

President Trump says he's going to name the next Fed. A chair a little bit early. Says he's considering in his words, three or four people for the central bank's top job. The president's making those comments, the journalists at the Kennedy Center. God, I love the people he picked. I know we don't need to talk about, but the way it used to be, when I'd see who was there, it's like, ugh. Because if, you know, it's like an Academy Award speech. The people that you see picked Jon Voight, Sylvester Stallone, kiss George Strait, one of the greats. I dislike this world a little better, but that's just me. I don't expect you to agree, necessarily. However, we've heard the President will consider as many as 11 candidates to lead the Fed. President Trump also again criticizing current chair Jay Powell. Literally. No, seriously, yes. He says that rates should be 3 or 4 percentage points lower than they are now.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I believe we should be three or four points lower.

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

So that's over a trillion dollars we.

[Joe Kernan]

Pay every year in interest. And it's really just a paper calculation. You sign a document and you save.

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

Almost a trillion dollars because that number equates very much to the bonds that.

[Joe Kernan]

We have to buy. I think he means on the long end. I think that's what he's talking about, obviously, because if it's from where the Fed is, we'd be at zero to control. It's hard to control. But if he meant where the Fed is in terms of rate cuts, well, then we'd be sense that we'd be negative, though, or getting close. Speaking of which, I would like. Wouldn't you like someone to pay you to keep your mortgage? That makes sense to me. I think that seems like might not be great for cooling off an economy necessarily, but we've done it before with negative interest rates and negative oil prices and things like that. Those were the golden age, the good old days. Speaking of interest rates, Chicago president. And then we're going to talk about this. Fed President Austan Goolsbee says he wants to see more data, including today's PPI number, before deciding if a rate cut is warranted. In Atlantic, Rafael Bostic says the healthy state of the US Job market, it puts the Fed in a good place. It allows the Fed the luxury of not having to rush to adjust monetary policy. And here's what I was. I already checked, Andrew, because, okay, today is, is it the 13th or 14th? It's the 14th. 14th. 14th. So we get CPI and PPI about this time. So for me, the tailwinds right now for the Fed cutting, you know, we had that labor report which was a little bit weak. So now we've gotten some Data on CPI 2.7 or 3.1. So my question was if the PPI comes in similar to the cpi, then we really. We have a jobs report on the first Friday of September and then we have, we will have two inflation reports before the Fed meeting next month at the 16th. I think it's the 16th.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Assuming that you can change mortgage long term.

[Joe Kernan]

No, no, I'm not saying that I'm.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I'm saying I'm sure that these guys have the.

[Joe Kernan]

Maybe they don't.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I'm saying influence any.

[Joe Kernan]

I'm saying whether they're in cutting mode now. Right. The next thing that comes will be we'll get two more. I was wondering, do we get two more inflation reading? Yeah, we do. We get the. Before the next Fed meeting. But in September you would think they're doing 25. Well, they're probably doing 25. That's 70%, isn't it? 50 is not, but they're probably doing 25. Unless what could, what could come in the way of that? The inflation number or a really strong jobs report, which is the first. The first Friday of September, which was coming, but it happened, but it is coming. And as we talked yesterday, there's a lot of people assume it's that we're in a tailwind environment right now, not in a headwind. And that makes you nervous. Always.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I'm nervous either way. Chinese AI startup Deepseek reportedly delaying its next generation R2 model after having trouble trading it using chips from Chinese tech giant Huawei. This is pretty interesting story because the Financial Times reporting that Deep Sea ran into problems as it worked to train the R2 model with Huawei's Ascend chips, which had been pushed by the Chinese government. Joe, the article says that that led Deep Sea to fall back on Nvidia chips for training while using Huawei's chips for inference. That refers to an AI model making its own predictions after it learns from a large amount of data. So this goes back to two issues. One is that basically the first version of Deep SEQ probably was built on the back of Nvidia chips the whole time.

[Joe Kernan]

Really?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

That's. That's the lesson of this whole situation. And if you remember, we had Alex Vaughn.

[Joe Kernan]

I defer to you. I defer to you. This, you, this. You were right on you thought you. Not good. The GPT5, not as good as I.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Want it to be.

[Joe Kernan]

Shows strain and it's slower and it's, it says something weird here. It's like a colder tone. Criticize the colder. What does that mean? It's not as friendly. Does it not say I like you, Andrew or something?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Or, you know, the voice is as friendly as ever. I think she's too friendly. I really. I don't like that voice.

[Joe Kernan]

How is that possible? I love it when people say the.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Woman who talks to me I'd love. Oh my God. I'm always telling her to stop it. It's crazy.

[Joe Kernan]

Really.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Oh, it's so bubbly and over the top. It's outrageous.

[Joe Kernan]

You're not used to it is the next generation R2 chip, the R2D2.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It's an R2 chip. R2 model.

[Joe Kernan]

Model is the next generation model. The R2D2.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It is not.

[Joe Kernan]

How do you know? Wouldn't you do that?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You would except that it's not ready yet. It's not good enough and you're going to need an Nvidia chip to make it work. Okay, think about an R2D2 with an Nvidia chip in it.

[Joe Kernan]

Think about that. It probably had one. We just didn't know because they were so ahead of their time.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So you.

[Joe Kernan]

At this point, the Poly market and they were right to put that it's not in the lead. This GPT5.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It may not be in the lead. And the craziest part about this, which is the thing I've been thinking a lot about and talking to a lot of people about in the Past couple days who are living in this AI world is, you know, you basically train these models. It's almost like baking something in an oven. And then you open the oven and wait to look and see how your pie looks. It's a very strange phenomenon. Like you don't really know what's going on inside the oven. And then you open the oven and you see the thing you've made.

[Joe Kernan]

Even the people that are doing the designing aren't sure what they're going to get.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Not exactly. They don't know exactly how it's going to turn.

[Joe Kernan]

That's pretty fascinating. You got to.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And then they open the oven, they look at the pieces, and then it's not always clear that just because you think you knew all the new cool ingredients to put into the pie, that the pie is therefore better.

[Joe Kernan]

Do you have any idea how to fix the things that aren't that.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I don't know. I mean, clearly they're trying to work.

[Joe Kernan]

On that because you, you know, you have no idea how to do my app, obviously, so it's.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah. Well, the funny part about.

[Joe Kernan]

You should blame GTP5 on that.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, I should blame GPT5 and I should move to Claude. That's what everybody has told me.

[Joe Kernan]

That's up to you. I can't help you for this purpose. I can't help you there. Okay, you make that. I have no idea what you're. Claude seems fine. I don't know.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Claude's anthropic.

[Joe Kernan]

How's llama 12th? Son of the llama. Big hitter at Llama.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I'm told Llama's not as good for this.

[Joe Kernan]

No, no, he's not. He's tight, too. Not a big tipper.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I'll tell you what is pretty great. Grok. Grok is pretty great.

[Joe Kernan]

I'm seeing that, and I'm seeing Grok is pretty great. I'm seeing a lot of bragging from Elon and everything else.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Grok is pretty great, but unfortunately not a lot of people using Grok. And I think that's one of the things that's frustrating Elon and that's one of the reasons that he's lashing out at Apple and others, because I do think it's a pretty good model.

[Joe Kernan]

Well, we have. This is a.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, and by the way, not just like, because it gives you. This is a good problem.

[Joe Kernan]

This is a good problem. This is a good problem to have, I think. Right? I mean, they're really competing to make.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yes. Except all of these require so much capital. It's like Everybody's just like burning money.

[Joe Kernan]

In the furnace, which is also good if you. I don't know the velocity of money. I mean, we are in a. You know, we'll have Hakeem Jeffries on a little bit later. I'm going to have to ask him a question. I want him to point to, like, the worst thing happening right now.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You're referring to.

[Joe Kernan]

I don't know. I'm, you know, 2.7% inflation, 3% unemployment, new highs across the board in the markets, the borders close. Iran's. I mean, I'm telling you my question, but give me the calamity.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Is that a question or a statement?

[Joe Kernan]

Where is the calamity right now? The only calamity that you have is. Is the end of democracy. Some nebula. And the answer is socialism. The answer is socialism. And just keep harping on Orange man bad. He's Hitler and it's the end of democracy. That's all you have.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I think you and I both agree that. I think there's a lot of good things going on. Well, what.

[Joe Kernan]

Give me that.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But there's also a Marxist sense about how it's all being done.

[Joe Kernan]

I think that's absurd.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You think that's absurd?

[Joe Kernan]

Totally, ridiculously absurd. Just sit back and just chill. Like you said. Chill, Relax. New highs, interest rates are probably going to get cut. Iran has been set back probably years.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And I am not going to sit here and tell you that things are terrible. I'm just going to tell you.

[Joe Kernan]

How about trade deals? The uk, the eu, Japan, we're talking to China, we're going to Alaska.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Our standing in the world. How about that?

[Joe Kernan]

It's phenomenal.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Prior to.

[Joe Kernan]

Yeah. Why do you think trillions of dollars are coming here or earmarked to come here right now? You can't come up with.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Because there's been a shakedown, my friend. There was a.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Whatever, Whatever.

[Joe Kernan]

Whatever. Whatever you want to call it, it's all about. You listen to Charlie Kirk at all yesterday.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

These are all I liked. Yes, you got your points this morning.

[Joe Kernan]

Charlie Kirk, you've got nothing. So you. I was going to say you have nothing except the. The nebulous end of democracy bs. And that you came up with what he came up with.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

As I said to you, there are certain policies.

[Joe Kernan]

What?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

There are certain policies.

[Joe Kernan]

You mean the industrial policy?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The industrial policy.

[Joe Kernan]

Why didn't you say something during the CHIPS Act?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It's a version of socialism.

[Joe Kernan]

Why didn't you say something during the CHIPS Act?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, because we had a whole conversation post Covid and post pandemic about how we needed to have a more resilient supply chain. That was the argument being made then. This is very different.

[Joe Kernan]

All right. He might not come on now because it's going to be like Checkmate. But coming up, we're going to talk.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Who's that, Hakeem?

[Joe Kernan]

Oh, the leader. Leader Jeffries.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I'm going to tell everybody about this news story and then we're going to talk about.

[Joe Kernan]

Then we can talk.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And we're just going to talk.

[Joe Kernan]

I'm going to plead ignorance, but pretend I'm not.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Ok, the first thing.

[Joe Kernan]

Are you sure? So I'm not that.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Ok, totally. This is not that what we're about to talk about. This is just a news headline and it's pretty interesting. Veteran investor Mario Gabelli, obviously somebody who's been on this show so many times, filing a lawsuit, and he sort of teased that he was going to do this for years over Paramount Global's merger with Skydance Media. Gabelli's firm seeking class action status on behalf of shareholders in one of his funds and other clients who held class A shares of Paramount prior to the merger. With Skydance closing last week. Now that lawsuit is targeting former Paramount controlling shareholder National Amusements. And that company's head, Shari Redstone has complained that Redstone walked away from the Paramount Skydance merger with billions of dollars while other investors weren't compensated appropriately. And basically he's making an argument about the two tiers of shares and how that deal was done.

[Joe Kernan]

Okay, okay.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Now we're going to start with what.

[Joe Kernan]

My question was for you. So I don't really use just Google when I have questions.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Right.

[Joe Kernan]

Because it's just easier to go on Perplexities on the front. You know, I don't know. I barely know how to move those things. I hear you. Those icons. So I go use that. So my question is, why would they even want this browser when I basically use them for everything? And you started telling me they don't own anything. Perplexity.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So the reason why Perplexity would want.

[Joe Kernan]

To own the browser.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The browser, if possible. First of all, the browser is valuable mostly because once you have the browser, you then control everybody, goes, I understand that part there, and puts in their search term.

[Joe Kernan]

Right. And that's how you make money.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

People would use their browser or rather would use their service. Right. And that would create some kind of bigger moat around their business.

[Joe Kernan]

Perplexity.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Perplexity. The question mark around perplexity has always been what the moat is around their business because underneath their Service is not, for the most part, their own models.

[Joe Kernan]

They haven't built any of those.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

They're using claude, they're using AI, they're using all of the different models. In fact, what the best thing they're doing is they've sort of built a custom service so that they can actually effectively ping different models to try to get the best answer in any given moment. Now they've customized on top of it.

[Joe Kernan]

But they're not using the top level AI. But it's not always there because they're using free stuff. They're not using it.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

They use a lot of the free stuff, some of the paid. If you are a paying user of Perplexity, they will route your question to sometimes other paying versions of other models, but they don't control the model. And one day it's possible OpenAI or Claude or could cut them off. Right, that's also a possibility. And so if you're trying to create. Now the argument is if Perplexity can become such a big driver of business to all these other places, that they would never want to cut them off. If you had the Chrome browser and you became such a big sort of player in the space, by the way, nobody could ever cut you off and therefore you'd have a real defensive mode around your business. Okay, that's the argument.

[Joe Kernan]

Well, the thing that I didn't realize was that they haven't written all.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, no, they've written. I don't want to say they've written no code because the other thing they've.

[Joe Kernan]

Done, but it routes it to the other.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But a lot of what they're doing is routing the questions to different places that are not their own models. Now they have some of their own sort of mini models, if you will, and there's lots of sort of wrappers that they've put on top of the stuff. By the way, some of the best things that Perplexity has done revolve around of financial information. So if you actually are searching for financial information, they have really tried to make a go at almost being like a Bloomberg. And they are routing information, but they're also then sort of wrapping it in a way that the other models don't do themselves. So there is. I don't want to say they're not. This is like they're just routing questions to other people and they got nothing going on.

[Joe Kernan]

Right.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But it's just a different kind of target.

[Joe Kernan]

You know, they want to be valued at 20 billion and they're talking about spending twice as much on something just to get it, as you said, to be a real company, to be a real boy.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, I think it also puts them into Pinocchio, by the way. It also puts them into the story. I mean, some people have argued that they're never really going to buy TikTok. They're never really going to buy Chrome. But we're now talking about perplexity in the same breath as we are Claude or ChatGPT or whatever.

[Joe Kernan]

Right? Because, you know, I lived in a period where there were no pagers even. There were no phones, there weren't even flip phones. I know there were just big Gordon Gekko. And those were new. And people thought those were great. And when I got one in my car, I was like, people thought, I mean, people, you know, women became interested in me. Finally. When I had.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

When you had one of those phones in your car.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Exactly.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Wow.

[Joe Kernan]

It was a Porsche.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It was a Porsche.

[Joe Kernan]

It was.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Tease will be next.

[Joe Kernan]

Coming up on Squawk pod, leader of House Democrats, Congressman Hakeem Jeffries with his take on the President's dealmaker in chief agenda.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

I think it's a disgrace. The Trump administration has attacked the free enterprise system here in the United States.

[Joe Kernan]

Of America and the impact he sees on institutions. From law firms and universities to government workers.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

The Trump administration has unleashed the largest pay to play scheme in modern American history and everybody in corporate America knows it. Everyone in Washington D.C. knows it.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The heaviest metal credit card of all time, rumored to be one of only 18 in existence, plated with the very same tungsten that forged the international space station and wielded at business dinners like a samurai sword. It's a classic corporate power move. But the real power move having end to end visibility on your most critical shipments. FedEx, the new power move.

[Keith Lansford]

This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions and key results and statistics that may impact your trade rating. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] MarketUpdatePodcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

And now a next level moment from @t business. Say you've sent out a gigantic shipment of pillows and they need to be there in time for International Sleep day. You've got AT and T5G so you're fully confident, but the vendor isn't responding. And International Sleep Day is tomorrow. Luckily, AT&T 5G lets you deal with any issues with ease. So the pillows will get delivered and everyone can sleep soundly, especially you. ATT 5G requires a compatible plan and device coverage not available everywhere. Learn [e-mail] 5G Network.

[Joe Kernan]

This is Squawk Pod from CNBC TODAY with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Sorkin up and Andrew Q. Welcome back to Squawk Box. Joining us right now, House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. There is so much to talk about to you about this morning, about everything that's going on in Washington about the bls, the Fed. We could talk about in video Democratic Party, but I want to start with this. And by the way, Mayor Culpa on me, too. But I'm curious where you land. For the last several months, the Democratic Party for the most part has been publicly suggesting that because of these tariffs that the economy was going to falter, that there was going to be a massive recession. And for whatever reason, that has not happened. And I'm curious why you think that hasn't happened and whether you think it was a mistake to be as critical as you have been.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Well, good morning. Great to be with you. Donald Trump promised on day one that costs were going to go down. Costs haven't gone down, they've gone up. What we have seen, in fact, is job creation go down almost to record low levels. And so there is reason to believe that the economy is not moving in the right direction. The erratic tariff policies have created a great deal of uncertainty in the business environment. And uncertainty, of course, doesn't allow for the type of explosive economic growth that we would all like to see here in the United States of America. I think there's no real basis to conclude that Donald Trump has been successful, particularly as it relates to the core issue of driving down the high cost of living in the United States of America, which is too high, which was his fundamental promise to the American people. Costs aren't going down, they're going up.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But are you surprised, I mean, just asking, just as a person, are you surprised that the tariffs haven't had a bigger impact on prices, for example?

[Hakeem Jeffries]

I think it remains to be seen where this is headed. I'm deeply concerned that the tariffs are going to exacerbate the inflationary challenges that we already have in the United States of America, the affordability issues that we have in the United States of America, particularly as it relates to consumer goods and consumer goods that are going to be important to the American people as folks prepare to send their children back to school.

[Joe Kernan]

Mr. Speaker, I don't know about deflation and cost. All I can tell you is that the inflation rate itself was 2.7% in the most recent read, year over year versus it got to a high of 9%. Under Biden, stocks are at record highs. Unemployment is 4.2%. That's full employment. The GDP was 3%. The border is actually secure. We've got trade deals with eu, Japan, many more in the works, and trillions of dollars of foreign investment coming here. Iran's nuclear ambitions have been set back indefinitely. And I just wrote down a few things. So I just have to ask you, where is the calamity that you're talking about? And it almost seems like for Democrats, socialism is the answer to these problems or, I don't know what, an end of democracy or something. We just don't get it.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Well, actually, I'll tell you what we stand for, Joe. It's pretty clear as Democrats, we believe in a strong floor and no ceiling. In America, you work hard, you play by the rules, you should be able to live the good life and there should be no ceiling on your success, on your capacity to do anything in the United States of America. That's the great promise of this country. At the same period of time, there should be a strong floor. Today is the 90th anniversary of Social Security. It was born 90 years ago today. What we've seen from this administration is an attack on Social Security, an attack on Medicare, an attack on the Affordable Care act, ripping Medicaid away from millions of Americans. That actually is the type of strong flaw that we should also have in this country. You pass one big ugly bill that's now law on a partisan basis that represents the largest attack on healthcare in American history. Hospitals will close, nursing homes will shut down, community based health clinics will be unable to operate. People all across the country are going to experience increased premiums, co pays and prescription drug prices. That's a problem for everyday Americans. I'm not talking about people who are already wealthy and well off and well connected. I'm talking about the everyday Americans that I represent in Brooklyn and that we're fighting hard for. In fact, those same Americans, food is being ripped out of the mouths of hungry children, veterans and seniors with the largest attack on nutritional assistance in American history. I find that problematic in the United States of America and millions of people do so as well.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Leader, where do you land on this mayoral race in New York and in particular on Mandani, who is clearly now the frontrunner in this situation. Won the primary. You have not publicly Come out, endorsed and endorsed him yet. And I'm curious what you're thinking.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Well, he ran a strong race in the primary, obviously relentlessly focused on affordability, which is a big problem, of course, here in New York City along with every other part of the United States of America. And he outworked the opposition. He out messaged the opposition and out organized the opposition. But now during the general election, of course, he's going to have to demonstrate to a broader electorate, including in many of the neighborhoods that I represent in Brooklyn, that his ideas can actually be put into reality. And that's, you know, the conversation that he's having with me and having with people who are community leaders and residents in the 8th congressional district I serve.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And that sounds like you're not convinced then yet.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

No. Well, we had one initial conversation. It was a constructive and candid conversation. It was centered around the community. And in that conversation, he indicated he'd like my help in putting together additional meetings with members of the congressional delegation as well as leaders in many of the communities that I represent in neighborhoods like East New York and Brownsville, Canarsie, some of the more lower income working class neighborhoods that I may serve. I agreed to do that. That meeting is being put into motion right now.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

How do you think about him relative to Cuomo? And how do you think about the message of socialism or being a socialist and what that may portend for the Democratic Party?

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Well, I think, as I indicated, listen, my view about what we as Democrats stand for, what we're fighting for, we need to lower the high cost of living in the United States of America. We need to fix our broken healthcare system and we need to clean up corruption in Washington, D.C. so we actually have a government that works for the American people, for everyday Americans, for hardworking American taxpayers, as opposed to working for the privileged few. That's what that one big ugly bill was about. Cut healthcare, devastate nutritional assistance, reward Republican billionaire donors with massive tax breaks. That's not us as Democrats here in this country. Work hard, play by the rules, you should be able to afford to live the good life. Good paying job, good housing, good health care, good education for your children, and a good retirement, which by the way, means protect Social Security and Medicare because they are earned benefits, not entitlement programs. Don't try to devastate people.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I understand that, which is what the.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Complaint is right now.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I'm curious where you land on things like, you know, freezing rent free buses, giving away, you know, free food at supermarkets and the like. And what you Just think of that idea and what it represents.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Listen, Zoran is going to have to make the case to the people of New York City, including in the neighborhoods that I represent, that these ideas which are designed to address affordability in New York City and that as a top line effort is important. The cost of living is the number one issue here in the city. Number one issue across the country is why Donald Trump's poll numbers are in the basement right now.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But do you agree with the about those approaches as a solution? I look you and I agree affordability is the number one issue. New York. It's the number one issue in the country. And so he has done a great job of identifying that issue and articulating that issue. The question is how you attack that issue. And what I'm asking you is whether you agree with the solutions that he's offering.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Here's what my solution would be and I've said this directly to him and will continue to say it to policymakers across the city, the state and the country. We have a situation in New York City and across America where the demand for housing that is affordable greatly exceeds the supply. That's a problem. That imbalance is jamming people up. Working class residents, moderate income residents, middle class residents. In New York City, if you're a police officer, married to a nurse, you can't even afford to purchase a home. In this city. That's problematic. So we have to build our way out of this problem. That's all hands on deck. That's city, that state, that's federal. That also means a meaningful partnership with the private sector. That has always been my position. That will continue to be my position because it's the right position for the people that I serve.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Andrew Cuomo has made the point that Zoran Madame lives in a rent controlled apartment even though he is not considered, quote, unquote, poor. And that Andrew Cuomo would actually try to create a law in the state that would prevent people like Mandami from being from living in a rent controlled apartment. Do you think that he should live in a rent control department?

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Well, listen, that's an issue for the state legislators and the state government to work out.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

No, but it's, it's a fascinating issue about affordability in this, in this city and whether there are folks who are living in rent controlled apartments all across this city that effectively should be going towards poorer people who, who need that affordability.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

It's a legitimate issue that has been raised and the Mondame campaign is going to have to address it.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Talking about issues that folks are going to have to address. What do you think of the President's decision to replace the BLS director in terms of this new person who's just been put into this role?

[Hakeem Jeffries]

I think it's a disgrace, but it's part of a consistent pattern that the Trump administration has attacked the free enterprise system here in the United States of America. The Trump administration has unleashed the largest pay to play scheme in modern American history. And everybody in corporate America knows it. Everyone in Washington D.C. knows it. Is that not an attack on a free market based economy here in the United States of America? Seems to me that it actually is. That's probably going after.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But here's the thing. You're talking about free market. This is why I wanted to go there because there's sort of, you're talking about a free market on one side and being an advocate for a free market on one side. But at the same time we just had a whole conversation about an individual who is running for mayor in New York City, who is, who is genuinely titling themselves a socialist. And you're saying that you might ultimately support them.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

And so I'm trying to understand the distinction here. No, no, I'm trying to understand what, why you would spend a significant amount of time asking me about the Democratic nominee who's not even the mayor. And it's not a legitimate point to raise about a president who is regularly attacking the free market economy. Bullying corporations, bullying universities, bullying law firms. He just recently called upon the CEO of Goldman Sachs to fire their chief economist. That's not problematic. He's the leader of the free world, the President of the United States of America. He's in office right now and he's attacking the market based economy. Now I said that I support.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Again, I don't disagree with you at all and I don't love those attacks. But I will say, just in fairness, and I wonder whether you think that they're the same or they're not the same. There have been people that have criticized Elizabeth Warren for years for individually attacking and going after and naming specific CEOs in America, specific companies in America, over again and over again. President Biden famously didn't invite Elon Musk to the White House. Probably caused him to actually support this president originally. And so the question is whether those are the same or they're different.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

It's interesting that we're talking about Joe Biden, no longer the President, Elizabeth Warren, who's a senator as opposed to Donald Trump, the President of the United States of America. His administration as well as complete control of government in Washington D.C. the House and the Senate. That's the problem that we are confronting right now. And our challenge is to actually make sure that we are addressing the issues of significance to the American people. And the number one issue is the high cost of living that they failed to address.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Final question. I think there are a lot of Republicans who actually agree that there are certain things this president does that they don't like, but they're unwilling to stand up and raise their hand and say something about it. Why do you think that is?

[Hakeem Jeffries]

I mean, we're dealing with a cult like situation unfortunately in Washington D.C. and we as Democrats will repeatedly make the point. Look, we are a separate and co equal branch of government. We don't work for Donald Trump, we don't work for Elon Musk, we don't work for J.D. vance. We work for the American people. And unfortunately, far too many of my Republican colleagues have not taken that approach. They are actively doing damage to the people they represent, including the largest attack on Medicaid in American history. And they're going to pay a price for that at the polls in November of next year.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Leader want to thank you for joining us. Always great to talk to you. We love hearing your perspective and we appreciate it. Thank you.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

Thank you.

[Joe Kernan]

Up next on Squawk Pod 2025's changes to American health care. A lot of provisions were included in the one big beautiful law. Dr. Mehmet Oz, CMS Administrator 50% increased.

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

Spending in rural health care and they've created a rural health transformation Fund that the Centers for Medicare Medicaid Services is going to administer. The money is going to be given with grants which are being requested within the next month.

[Joe Kernan]

We'll be right back.

[Keith Lansford]

This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] MarketUpdatePodcast or find Schwab Market Update Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Joe Kernan]

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[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Standby Joe, Here's Mike Q.

[Joe Kernan]

You're watching Squawkbox on cnbc. I'm Joe Kernan along with Andrew Ross Sorkin and Big hour. It is a big hour. Joining us now, Dr. Mehmet Oz, the administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. Doctor, it is good to see you and it's welcome. It's so tough to try to navigate through these challenges, and I don't envy the job you're trying to do. So by definition, we think that some government programs are wasteful. There's no doubt about it. At the same time, nobody likes to hear that something's not going to be covered or that authorizations are going to be tightened up. How do you walk the fine line? And you're trying to do it right now with Medicare heard AI is going to help us do all these different things. But when you try to use AI to maybe get rid of some unnecessary procedures, you're immediately going to hear people crying that it's unfair and we don't need this. And that's what you're going through right now.

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

Joe, the challenge is worth it. Think about prior authorization, which is the large category you're speaking about as a tool. And when done correctly, it's incredibly helpful. You have a hammer, which is a tool. You can build a house with it, but you can do damage with it as well. And when prior authorization first started being used within Medicare and Medicaid, that was 60 years ago, by the way, the program's 60 years old this month. So, you know, it's got a long and wonderful history of helping Americans achieve their best health. And that's really the goal here. It's not just an insurance card, but to allow you to flourish, to thrive with the best health possible. You can't be a wealthy nation without being a healthy nation. But we need to make sure that the money is spent in the right places. So when you go to a checkout counter, you put your debit card in, you immediately are told whether you have money in the bank so that the vendor knows that they're getting paid and that you know, you can actually pay for it. We need something equivalent to that with prior authorization. That's not what's happening now for private insurance companies and for Medicare Advantage. Oftentimes these programs are used as weapons to deprive care. It's done for a variety of reasons, but if we could make it Work the way it's supposed to work to allow us to adjudicate for sure that you're getting the right care in the right place. You're not having some unscrupulous individual doing an unnecessary procedure or giving you an unneeded medication. That's a helpful thing for the system. We think it could actually be about $100 billion of benefit to the American people, to the taxpayer, if he can use these services appropriately. So the President used the power to convene, as he often does. He realizes you can be nimble if you can get industry to start doing the right thing. So he asked us to pull together the insurance companies in America. We got about roughly 80% of the people in America's insurance companies now pledging to do something with prior authorization. They announced it at HHS headquarters with Secretary Kennedy and myself. We had members of Congress there and they have said, vowed by the end of this calendar year, they will reduce the number of procedures for which prior authorization is required. Only the ones that are most important. They're going to be very clear on what the criteria are for getting these procedures or these medications. And by next year, they'll do it digitally. So just like that debit card goes in and tells you immediately, not in two weeks, right that moment, whether you have money to buy that cappuccino, we'll be able to do the same thing for the American people.

[Joe Kernan]

Well, it's going to be demagogued. It already is. I'm reading it already. We don't need a duplicative process. It's just going to result in less care being given to people that need it. Which brings us to Medicaid. We just had Leader Jeffries on. I mean, the way Democrats talk about what was in that bill and the way Republicans talk about it, it almost seems like you're in a parallel or different universe. They think Medicaid is being absolutely gutted. I mean, how do you respond to that? You need work requirements. The spending is still going up over the next 10 years, is it not? By trillions of dollars.

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

Joe, we're going to spend $200 billion more on Medicaid.

[Joe Kernan]

200 billion.

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

Okay, 200 billion more on Medicaid. And we have a program that had grown the Medicaid program, 50% in its size in the last five years. So it's reprehensible to criticize the President on this, I think very earnest effort to save Medicaid, to allow it to provide care to our most vulnerable. But you cannot use it in ways it was not designed 60 years ago. When Medicaid was created, it was very clear. It was supposed to be used for those at the dawn of their life. As Hubert Humphrey said, the children, those at the twilight of their life, the elderly and those who were living in the shadows, the disabled. Those are the folks it was designed for. So every Democratic president and every Republican president has said that the backbone of a social support fabric has to be work. You want people to actually get out of their homes and go do things. An able bodied person on Medicaid today watches about 6.1 hours of television or just hangs out leisure time. This is data that is well replicated. That's a lot of time. No one's going to be happy sitting at home 6.1 hours a day doing nothing. Your desire to go out and do something, to change the world is given to you by God the moment you're born. We want people to go out there and live their fullest lives. So asking people to go out and either volunteer at a position, get educated, get engaged with your community, or go get a job. And we're going to help you do that. We already have two trials ongoing with technology Solutions to allow us to pretty quickly adjudicate whether you've tried to work. If you have not had a job, we can try to connect you with the state employment offices. We can adjudicate whether you're trying to volunteer or get educated, just go out and change the world. This is something everyone should be rooting for. I don't understand how you could probably possibly say that's a bad thing for America, for us not to want to get people to be wealthy, to go out there and change their own lives for the better.

[Joe Kernan]

It seems to be real concern about rural hospitals. Can you allay some of those fears, Doctor, and the effect? What is the fear and how do you counter, you know, how do you tell people it's going to be okay?

[Dr. Mehmet Oz]

Well, the quality of the care you're getting in health care especially, but the dignity you have is oftentimes driven unfortunately by the zip code you live in. So about 7% of the Medicaid dollars we spoke of go to rural health care. It's about $20 billion a year. The President and Congress have very wisely said we're going to put $10 billion more a year into this program for the next five years. So 50% increased spending in rural health care. And they've created a rural health transformation fund that the Centers for Medicare Medicaid Services is going to administer. The money is going to be given by, with grants which are being requested within the next month. By the end of this calendar year, we're going to put money into the rural health care system to make sure that it works better for everybody. Better manpower, right. Sizing the system and bringing it into the program.

[Joe Kernan]

We need technology. I'm glad you know how TV works because you, you, you wrapped just in time.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Dr. Yeah, we got to get out.

[Joe Kernan]

Thank you.

And that's Squawk Pod for today. Squawk Box is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick, and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Tune in weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 Eastern. Follow squawkpod wherever you get your podcasts for newsmaking, interviews and all the latest headlines.

Is the next generation R2 chip the R2 V2?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It's not an R2 chip, it's an R2 model.

[Joe Kernan]

Model. Is the next generation model the R2 V2?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It is not if you've been listening for a while.

[Joe Kernan]

First of all, thank you. Second, share this podcast with a friend. Help others discover what we do here. Thanks as always for listening. We'll meet you right back here tomorrow.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

We are clear.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Thanks, guys.

[Hakeem Jeffries]

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