MBS at The White House, A ‘Joyless’ AI Boom, & MTV’s Legacy 11/19/25

Summary

Squawk Pod – Episode Summary

Podcast: Squawk Pod, CNBC
Episode: MBS at The White House, A ‘Joyless’ AI Boom, & MTV’s Legacy
Date: November 19, 2025
Hosts: Joe Kernen, Becky Quick, Andrew Ross Sorkin
Key Guests: Eamon Javers, Greg Ip (Wall Street Journal), Tom Freston (former Viacom/MTV CEO)

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Overview

This episode of Squawk Pod covers a sweep of headline topics: the high-profile White House visit of Saudi Crown Prince MBS and its market/geopolitical implications, the growing sense of unease despite the generative AI boom, and the rise, fall, and possible rebirth of MTV as discussed with its co-founder Tom Freston. The hosts traverse market anxiety, global power plays, tech's shifting emotional terrain, and media nostalgia—all with typical CNBC candor and debate.

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Key Segments & Insights

1. Market Anticipation: Nvidia Earnings & the AI Ecosystem

• Timestamps: 02:33–06:09, 24:09–32:14

• Recent tech stock volatility, especially Nvidia and Microsoft, is driving anticipation over whether markets are heading for correction amid the AI boom.

• Microsoft’s new investments in AI startups like Anthropic have made the funding landscape tangled and competitive, with tech giants covering all their bases.

  “I need a flowchart of who's involved with whom and who's funding what… is it the same money? Is it real? Is it new?"
  — Joe Kernen (04:12)

• Microsoft’s multi-pronged approach: investing in “competing” AI firms (OpenAI, Anthropic, X.AI) to secure cloud service deals.

• Some deals resemble "vendor financing" arrangements, where investments secure vendor relationships and possible equity.

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2. Power & Politics: MBS Meets President Trump

• Timestamps: 06:09–17:39

• Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS) receives a lavish White House welcome, with major business and tech leaders in attendance (Elon Musk, Tim Cook, Jensen Huang).

• President Trump announces Saudi Arabia’s “commitment” to $1 trillion in US investments, upgrading their status to major non-NATO ally.

  “Saudi Arabia announced that it will invest an incredible $600 billion. That means jobs… But I guess the profits are there too.”
  — Donald Trump (07:23)

• Hosts raise skepticism about the true size and timeline of such investments, noting Saudi GDP is about $1 trillion annually.

• Discussion of the Khashoggi murder resurfaces, with Trump publicly exonerating MBS—sparking debate among hosts about the morality versus practicality of economic and diplomatic ties.

  “Are you okay with whitewashing what happened… if it's all about American jobs?”
  — Joe Kernen (14:22)

  “You can thread a needle where you… work with [Saudi Arabia], and also condemn what took place… I don’t think you have to whitewash something.”
  — Becky Quick (15:20)

• The hosts debate parallels with Russia, and the challenges of balancing values with economic interests.

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3. Regulation & Scandal: Meta’s Antitrust Win and OpenAI Board Fallout

• Timestamps: 17:39–22:04

• Meta prevails in a long-running antitrust case concerning Instagram and WhatsApp.

• Larry Summers resigns from the OpenAI board, following public scrutiny over his connections with Jeffrey Epstein, raising fresh questions about ethics and governance in AI.

  “He was brilliant with terrible personal judgment… he was seen as somebody who could settle things down at OpenAI… and now he has roiled that himself with his own personal problems.”
  — Becky Quick (20:29)

• Discussion highlights both the reputational risks facing influential figures in tech and the struggles of organizations like OpenAI to find “neutral” leadership.

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4. A 'Joyless' AI Revolution: Greg Ip on Public Mood versus Economic Gains

• Timestamps: 24:09–32:14

Greg Ip (Wall Street Journal) joins to discuss his piece: “The Most Joyless Tech Revolution Ever. AI Is Making Us Rich and Unhappy.”

• AI's economic impact is clear (booming stock market, 401K gains), but public mood is dour—marked by anxiety, resignation, even “dread.”

• Ip contrasts today’s AI trajectory with the exuberance of the dot-com era:

  “There was playfulness… everybody quitting their job to start a dot com… The bubble did burst, but the mood was very upbeat. And I don’t feel that now… it feels more like resignation, anxiety. And from some people, I’ve even heard dread…”
  — Greg Ip (25:53)

• Polls show trust in AI is low and demand for regulation is uniquely high.

• The disconnect: those benefiting from AI financially often worry about the impact on the next generation’s employment prospects.

  “If you're in your 50s… looking at retirement, you're worried about your kids: are they going to have a job?”
  — Greg Ip (28:52)

• Hosts and guest debate whether we’re actually early in the AI cycle, or if public skepticism is a healthy “wall of worry” to prevent bubbles.

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5. The Rise, Fall, and Future of MTV: Tom Freston Interview

• Timestamps: 33:58–45:17

Tom Freston, co-founder of MTV and ex-CEO of Viacom, discusses his new book Unplugged and the legacy of MTV:

• MTV’s launch created a “new visual vocabulary,” influencing TV and social media.

• The famous Dire Straits song “Money for Nothing” doubled as global branding for MTV—making the network known worldwide.

• Freston laments "the last 10 years have been terrible" for MTV: music was stripped out, reality shows dominated, and core creative talent left.

  “They ripped the name Music Television off the bottom of the logo… it became a repository for B-grade reality shows. There was no music on television.”
  — Tom Freston (35:34)

• On MTV’s decline: record labels resisted licensing videos online, letting YouTube and Vevo seize the digital music video space. Freston believes MTV could still be reimagined for modern audiences—if new management commits to creative revitalization.

• Media today is headed for more consolidation (Paramount, Warner, Comcast...), often to the detriment of creative staff.

  “I hate it when creative companies kind of get all merged together… people are going to lose jobs.”
  — Tom Freston (38:14)

• The business: explosion in sports rights spending, challenge for news, and survival of specialty content like CNBC’s finance niche, which Freston feels is secure regardless of distribution.

• On the cyclical rebundling of media: “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss… we’re going to get fooled again.” (Who lyric) (44:51)

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Notable Quotes

• On the AI boom's mood:
  “It feels more like resignation, anxiety. And from some people, I’ve even heard dread about what AI means for them, for society, and for the availability of jobs.”
  — Greg Ip (25:53)

• On U.S.-Saudi relations:
  “Are you okay with whitewashing what happened… if it's all about American jobs?”
  — Joe Kernen (14:22)

• On the transformation of MTV:
  “They ripped the name Music Television off the bottom of the logo… it became a repository for B-grade reality shows.”
  — Tom Freston (35:34)

• On bundling/streaming trends:
  “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss… we’re going to get fooled again.”
  — Tom Freston (44:51)

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Useful Timestamps

• Market/AI financial dynamics: 02:33–06:09, 24:09–28:38
• MBS/Trump White House summit: 06:09–17:39
• Meta antitrust, Larry Summers/OpenAI: 17:39–22:04
• Greg Ip, AI’s emotional climate: 24:09–32:14
• Tom Freston on MTV and legacy media: 33:58–45:17

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Tone and Format

The episode features the hosts’ trademark blend of sharp market analysis, lively debate, and self-deprecating humor. Discussions balance skepticism and pragmatism on policy, tech, and creative industries, while notable guests bring reflective, sometimes nostalgic, perspectives on their fields.

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Conclusion

For listeners who missed the show, this episode was a whirlwind tour through today's high-stakes intersections of tech, markets, media, and geopolitics—anchored by perspectives from both CNBC’s veteran hosts and influential industry voices. Whether you’re tracking the AI supercycle, curious about global power shifts, or nostalgic for the golden age of MTV, this episode delivers smart context, real-time analysis, and a few big laughs.

Transcript

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[Eamon Javers]

Bring in show music please.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod, the world's most valuable company set to report what Nvidia will tell us about the economy, the artificial intelligence boom, the markets.

[Joe Kernen]

But there's a renewed sense of anticipation, right? Excitement. I think it matters. I think it's important.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And its more circular deals partnering with Microsoft to invest in startup Anthropic.

[Becky Quick]

A little bit of like a vendor financing kind of scenario tech these days.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It's not the boom of the past.

[Joe Kernen]

We were all happy in 1999. We were all going to party like it's 1999. Right?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The Wall Street Journal's Greg Ip on tech revolutions, joyful and joyless.

[Greg Ip]

Yeah, it was kind of crazy and the bubble did burst, but the mood was very upbeat and I don't feel that now. I mean I feel that, you know, unless you're like Sam Alt plus MTV.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Co founder Tom Freston, the veteran media exec on the music channel's legacy from the 80s all the way to modern social media.

[Tom Freston]

It kind of brought in sort of a new visual vocabulary and style to television, new way of editing and moving things along on a sort of non linear basis.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And the rest of today's news that.

[Joe Kernen]

Got us squawking, who started this?

[Becky Quick]

Trump started this.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It's Wednesday, November 19, 2025. Squawk Pod begins right now, stand Andrew.

[Eamon Javers]

By in three, two, one.

[Tom Freston]

You Andrew.

[Becky Quick]

Good morning. Welcome to Squawk Box right here on CNBC. We're live @ the NASDAQ markets at Times Square. It is just the boys this morning. I'm Enterall Sorkin along with Joe Kern and Becky's off today. Now the Dow and S and P of course on four day losing streaks. It's the S and P longest downturn since August. The Nasdaq seeing its fifth negative section session now in six. And big names like Microsoft, Nvidia closing in the red ahead of Nvidia's earnings today. And it feels like everything is going to key off whatever we hear tonight.

[Joe Kernen]

In a long time, been a long time, no since I've actually been doing this a long time. A lot of earnings. How many earnings have we reported on in 35 years?

[Becky Quick]

And you're saying this is the first time, you know that first time.

[Joe Kernen]

But there is a renewed sense of anticipation.

[Becky Quick]

Right.

[Joe Kernen]

Excitement. I think it matters. I think it's important. And you know I've been, We've got.

[Becky Quick]

Analyze, We've got it, we've got it didn't matter.

[Joe Kernen]

It's just as the articles being written today are, is the market ready to pull back 10% and have a full fledged correction? If it pulls back 10, you know what people think, is it going to pull back 20?

[Schwab Announcer]

I don't know.

[Joe Kernen]

So that's out there. The notion that we might be in some type of extended pullback. And I think this matters tonight.

[Becky Quick]

It matters a lot for Nvidia and.

[Joe Kernen]

The whole AI thing. I need you, you know, you write books, you do all this stuff. I need a flowchart of who's involved with whom and who's funding what. Because now Microsoft, aren't they really tight with Open Air? But now they're doing stuff with Anthropic and all the money's going around. Is it the same money?

[Becky Quick]

Is it real?

[Joe Kernen]

Is it new? Is that it all starts with the teeth. It's, it's.

[Becky Quick]

Well, so the latest deal with Anthropic, which is fascinating because first of all puts them in business with a competitor to open AI. But by the way, they had already gotten in.

[Joe Kernen]

I figured that out.

[Becky Quick]

You figured that one out. They had already gotten involved with Xai so they have X on their platform as well.

[Joe Kernen]

Okay.

[Becky Quick]

And you know the initial thought is they want to be involved with all of these folks so these folks can pay them fees to use their cloud Azure service. That's, that's, that's the impetus For Microsoft.

[Joe Kernen]

Okay. So there's a lot of.

[Becky Quick]

Okay.

[Joe Kernen]

They're not even frenemies. They're just, they're keep keeping all their bases covered.

[Becky Quick]

So Microsoft's now keeping all its bases covered.

[Joe Kernen]

Right.

[Becky Quick]

Or it was all in with Open.

[Joe Kernen]

Not all the AI. Some are good at coding, some are good at this. So there could be.

[Becky Quick]

Some could be different. It could be a lot of is being used right now by a lot of the coding and enterprises. You know, businesses like Anthropic, Open AI Chatbots has become sort of the consumer choice of for, for, for most folks. And then what's happened here in this anthropic deal, which is a little bit like some of the other deals we've seen with Nvidia and other things, Microsoft is basically making an investment in Anthropic. And Anthropic is then of course saying, well, we will now use your services. You with me on where the money goes?

[Joe Kernen]

I'm going to ask again. I'm going to ask AI to explain. We're a little bit, I use.

[Becky Quick]

We're a little. Oh, I was saying this is still in the vendor. A little bit of like a vendor financing kind of scenario.

[Joe Kernen]

There's a lot.

[Becky Quick]

Except that these guys are going to get a little bit equity for their, for their vendor financing.

[Joe Kernen]

Okay.

[Becky Quick]

If that makes any sense.

[Joe Kernen]

I think we better. Have you ever seen Amen? Like, I wouldn't say he's a prima donna, but when he's waiting for us to go to him, he just, he gets furious.

[Becky Quick]

I mean, the guy has been sleeping in his tuxedo since last night.

[Joe Kernen]

He gets absolutely furious. Business and diplomacy, Eamon. In case you didn't realize, business and diplomacy were both on the agenda during a White House meeting between President Trump and Saudi Crown Prince MBS Mohammed bin Salman. Eamon Javors joins us now with the headlines and a recap of the menu.

[Eamon Javers]

Yeah. Good morning, Joe. President Trump welcomed Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman to the White House with literal open arms on Tuesday, treating him to a South Lawn arrival ceremony with a military band, mounted honor guard and fighter jet flyover. Then in the East Room last night, the President toasted the de facto Saudi ruler with an elegant dinner and glittering guest list, including Apple's Tim Cook, Tesla's Elon Musk, Nvidia's Jensen Huang, investor Bill Ackman, and global soccer star Cristiano Ronaldo. The President said he was officially designating Saudi Arabia a major non NATO ally of the United States, putting that Arab nation in the same category as Australia Japan and South Korea, among others. And in his toast, the president highlighted the major investment deals he said the Saudis had committed to.

[Donald Trump]

Saudi Arabia announced that it will invest an incredible $600 billion. That means jobs. That means jobs. It's also good for your companies. But I'm only interested in the jobs for your country. I'm not interested in the profits, but I guess the profits are there too. But $600 billion in the United States and today I said, any way you can up that? And he said, I am going to up that to $1 trillion. So he's investing $1 trillion.

[AT&T Announcer]

Now.

[Eamon Javers]

The evening marked a return to full diplomatic standing for the Saudi leader who had become an international pariah for the murder of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi by Saudi agents. A killing the CIA concluded was ordered by bin Salman himself. President Trump disputed that in the Oval Office on Tuesday, arguing that bin Salman knew nothing about the murder. Things happen, President Trump said, but he.

[Donald Trump]

Knew nothing about it. And we can leave it at that.

[Eamon Javers]

Today we're expecting the president to attend the U. S. Saudi investment forum at the Kennedy center and continue to highlight the deep financial ties between the two countries. And guys, they have an all star list of business executives coming to that Kennedy center event today. So we'll watch for any news out of that one throughout the day. Back over to you.

[Becky Quick]

Same crew from last night? For the most part.

[Eamon Javers]

Yeah, Elon will be there, Jensen will be there. A lot of the big names, plus a whole bunch of Saudi officials, some oil and gas executives. I mean, it is a star studded day over at the Kennedy center. And as I said, we do expect the president to make a trip over there in the Beast and give some remarks as well.

[Becky Quick]

Who I was. You know, they had all that footage last night and it looked like Elon was having dinner or talking to. Was it Albert Bourla he was sitting with?

[Eamon Javers]

It looked like that to me. I couldn't quite tell in the VO that we were able to see. Yes, he turned away a little back.

[Becky Quick]

There, his head there, I think. But I was.

[Eamon Javers]

You recognized the left ear.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah. Well, who's between?

[Eamon Javers]

Alberto? I didn't see who that was sitting.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah, in between.

[Eamon Javers]

Yeah, I was just gonna say that I didn't see who it was sitting exactly next to Elon Musk. But so much drama in that storyline, right? I mean, as Elon Musk had that public falling out with President Trump accused him of being in the Epstein files earlier this year. The two were done with each other months ago. Now Elon Musk reappearing at the White House, not necessarily at the president's side, but certainly in the President's good graces or semi good graces, at least having a seat at the table. So a fascinating moment there. And you see that pat on the arm there from President Trump to Elon Musk.

[Becky Quick]

All right.

[Joe Kernen]

A lot of. A lot of things to talk about. I did a little bit of like. And things like that. A little bit of background because it reminded me, Eamon, a lot of eyebrows raised when the President came down on MBS's side about whether he knew about the Khashoggi assassination, which for me hearkened back to the president in that interaction with Putin, I think about 2016 or 2018, where he sided with Putin on whether Russia had interfered in the election. He later said that he misspoke about that and accepted what the CIA said, but then he said that he just didn't think it influenced the election. So the CIA and other agencies highly confident that MBS either knew or at least approved and even maybe ordered what happened.

[Schwab Announcer]

Right.

[Joe Kernen]

To Khashoggi, but no smoking gun. It's pointed out by the Washington Post and others that there's no document that says where he signed the order to have him killed. But the people that did it, based on his control over the kingdom, the involvement of his inner circle and the way that it operated, CIA was highly confident that. That. So what is. So what do we glean from that, Sorkin? That money or. Amen. It's the real world.

[Eamon Javers]

The other thing the president said, a.

[Joe Kernen]

Trillion dollars speaks very loudly. I mean, it's. Is this the way we do things or.

[Eamon Javers]

I think that's why a trillion dollars is a trillion dollars. Right. And we'll see whether those commitments are real. The President there, you know, saying that he talked bin Salman up from 600 billion. He sort of jawboned him in the Oval Office, talked him up to a trillion. We'll see whether we get details underpinning that. But you go back to the murder.

[Becky Quick]

Can I just question about.

[Eamon Javers]

The president said in the Oval Office yesterday. Sure, go ahead.

[Becky Quick]

Just about the billion, the trillion dollars.

[Joe Kernen]

Some of it's jets.

[Becky Quick]

Saudi's entire GDP on an annual basis is a trillion dollars.

[Joe Kernen]

Right, right.

[Becky Quick]

I'm just, just, I'm putting this in context.

[Joe Kernen]

He's hoping that it's done during his term. It might not even be done in the next four years. So it's.

[Becky Quick]

So we're talking about $100 billion over 10 years. Are we talking about over 20 years.

[Joe Kernen]

He hopes it's this year. He hopes it's, it's.

[Eamon Javers]

They didn't put out any details on it at all.

[Joe Kernen]

He hopes it's in his term.

[Becky Quick]

No, I know, but that would. If in his term there's two and a half years left, it means that they would have to give half of their gdp.

[Joe Kernen]

No, each year. I know you wish there were only two and a half. I think more like three. Three years left, isn't it?

[Becky Quick]

Three years. Three years you'd like. I'm not six months. But you know Vance, maybe this is over the seven year period that he's still going to be the president.

[Joe Kernen]

No, but you're expecting your buddy, you know, Vance is waiting in the wings. So I know you know Gavin will.

[Becky Quick]

Put up a good fight. The only point I'm making is if the whole country does a trillion dollars.

[Joe Kernen]

A year business, you never believe these numbers. Did you see Bessant said it's 20 trillion now it seems a stretch. Besant said in fact, though, when. Besant, when they asked Besant how much total. Because I think in the, I think Trump was saying in the entire Biden presidency it was a trillion and that was 250 billion in the last year. And he's saying it's 20 so far. When they asked Bessant what the number is, he says, well, the President says it's, it's 20 trillion. Scott. Treasury secretary doesn't exactly. I mean, he says the president says it's 20. He doesn't say it's not 20. But that's the president's number. Is it 20? Have you been adding it up, Eamon? You got a calculator?

[Greg Ip]

It's.

[Eamon Javers]

Yeah. I mean, you know, the question is over how many out years, how many of these commitments do you.

[Joe Kernen]

How much was already promised?

[Eamon Javers]

The President's attribute. Yeah, and what the President's adding up there is sort of the overall economic impact of tariffs in terms of his negotiations and all of the interaction between the United States and these other economies, you know, and you kind of throw up your hands at that point in trying to calculate that. I mean, you could just sort of attribute the entire economic relationship between these countries for decades and say, well, that's the result of tariffs.

[Joe Kernen]

All right, Eamon. It's a real quandary. I mean, we just had the Syrian leader who used to be basically, you know, a terrorist. Basically. We have, we deal with China, which, you know, what goes on with the Uyghurs. We deal with Russia, which, not that much, but so, I mean but in his defense, Trump's defense, if it's all about American jobs and making life better for Americans, are you okay with whitewashing what happened in.

[Becky Quick]

Well, my question is slightly different.

[Joe Kernen]

Why can't you just answer that? Are you okay with this or.

[Becky Quick]

I'm not okay with the whitewashing part. What I, what I don't understand is actually you could say exactly what you just said.

[Schwab Announcer]

Really?

[Joe Kernen]

That's a first.

[Becky Quick]

No, no.

[Joe Kernen]

Which is you're agreeing with, which is.

[Becky Quick]

There'S a practical reality which is that we want jobs and we think that's good for our economy.

[Joe Kernen]

Right.

[Becky Quick]

And we want them to be our allies.

[Joe Kernen]

Right.

[Becky Quick]

Is that the question I have is slightly different. Can you thread a needle where you effectively say, I want all of those things and therefore I'm willing to work with you, and I'm also prepared to condemn what took place now seven years ago?

[Joe Kernen]

I mean, if Russia totally.

[Becky Quick]

And I think you probably could. I think that is the thing that I would say is the mistake. If I, if I was going to say there's a mistake here. The mistake is that I think you can hold both ideas in your head at the same time. I don't think you have to actually quote, unquote, whitewash something. I think you could literally just say, look, we put this behind us, but.

[Joe Kernen]

De facto is, well, no, no, I.

[Becky Quick]

Don'T think it has to be. I don't think every time you see him, you have to repeat that he did this. But when the question is asked to you, you could say, look, the CIA said what it said. This happened seven years ago. I care deeply about American jobs, and that's where my focus is right now.

[Greg Ip]

Yep.

[Becky Quick]

You know, I condemn the killing of anybody for free speech or other purposes, and I'm going to leave it there. And I'm not knock. I think it's different just to turn the thing and say this didn't happen.

[Joe Kernen]

Okay, how about this? Just one more and then we're going to go low's results. If sanctions work on Russia, he stops. We get some type of, you know, you keep this, we keep that. Do we ever have full diplomatic relations with Russia again after the atrocities that with Putin?

[Becky Quick]

I don't know what full diplomatic relations mean.

[Greg Ip]

Do we.

[Joe Kernen]

How could you ever not forgive and forget? But how do you ever have normal relations?

[Becky Quick]

That one's a hard.

[Joe Kernen]

How do you ever do that with Russia?

[Becky Quick]

At this point, you probably never get fully.

[Joe Kernen]

No, we would. In the real world, we would.

[Becky Quick]

Probably.

[Joe Kernen]

Right.

[Becky Quick]

I, I don't know about that. I Mean, that would be a. I think.

[Joe Kernen]

Not to say that we should.

[Becky Quick]

Complicated relations.

[Joe Kernen]

Look at. We're great friends with Vietnam, which isn't this crazy, right?

[Becky Quick]

Yeah. But there's a different leader.

[Joe Kernen]

No, I know, I know, I know. But maybe we should be talking Putin, not necessarily Russia.

[Becky Quick]

Right? I think we're. Yes. Do I think we could have relations with Russia? Sure. Do I think we can have relations with Putin as long as he's running the country in that way. I think it would be hard to do it in the same way.

[Joe Kernen]

What about this? We haven't talked about this. Or was this Lina Khan or who. Who started this? Meta.

[Becky Quick]

Trump started this. No, no, let's put this whole thing on the table. This was a Trump case originally. He found on Ted. Hold on. Well, it was a Trump case originally.

[Joe Kernen]

Okay.

[Becky Quick]

Then taken on by Lina Khan, then retaken on by Trump.

[Joe Kernen]

Okay.

[Becky Quick]

Okay.

[Joe Kernen]

Who did he not like? Someone made him mad.

[Becky Quick]

And guess who undid this? An Obama appointed judge, my friend.

[Joe Kernen]

No kidding. So amazing.

[Becky Quick]

Take that to the bank.

[Joe Kernen]

Amazing. The Texas judge that did the gerrymandering was that Trump appointee of those three. Meta winning a high profile, long running antitrust case against the Federal Trade Commission. The government had accused the company of holding a monopoly in social networking. The case was filed five years ago. Five years. Yeah. Okay. And focused on Meta's acquisition of Instagram and WhatsApp. But Mark Zuckerberg has courted some favor.

[Schwab Announcer]

Right.

[Tom Freston]

With him.

[Joe Kernen]

Does that help?

[Becky Quick]

I don't think that helped with this. Right. But it helped. Right. We have some news we gotta get to because this is just crossing a statement now from Larry Summers. In line with my announcement to step away from my public commitments, I have also now decided to resign from the board of OpenAI. I'm grateful for the opportunity to have served, excited about the potential of the company and look forward to following their progress. Of course, Larry Summers has been involved and came out in some of these emails. I think we've known for quite some time that he was involved in some way with Jeffrey Epstein. More of the details became apparent as these as these files have.

[Joe Kernen]

I looked into him yesterday.

[Becky Quick]

Some of them are not.

[Joe Kernen]

Are how do I get horizontal with. He's married at the time and Epstein said it was pretty funny, said, larry, your chances of getting horizontal with this woman are zero.

[Becky Quick]

He interestingly, you know, joined the board of OpenAI after what was 2018.

[Joe Kernen]

He was.

[Becky Quick]

No, I understand that he joined the. I just want to talk about the implications for OpenAI because what happened at OpenAI as you know, was. There was an insurrection, if you remember what. An insurrection, its own insurrection, similar to the one that happened on your birthday in Washington. But there was an insurrection on the board, if you recall, where they tried to push Sam Altman out and all the other board members then left as part of that. They were looking at the time for somebody that they thought could be sort of a Switzerland kind of individual who had great ethics and was seen as sort of a.

[Joe Kernen]

They thought Larry was neutral.

[Becky Quick]

No, no. And, and so they brought Larry, Larry Summers in. In. Look, Larry Summers, whatever you think of this is brilliant. Obviously, you can hold two ideas in your mind. He was brilliant with terrible personal judgment.

[Joe Kernen]

He was extremely partisan and not neutral. I've seen him speak many times. Seen him speak in private.

[Becky Quick]

Sure. I mean, he's, he was, he's a Democrat.

[Joe Kernen]

He was a Democrat and. All right. And all of his were informed.

[Becky Quick]

But when I say.

[Joe Kernen]

And he was wrong most of the time about.

[Becky Quick]

I don't know about that. But as a, as a. First of all, if you recall, you were quoting him left and right when he was criticizing Janet Yellen.

[Joe Kernen]

Now you're saying, now you're saying that I was Republicans.

[Becky Quick]

Were Republicans.

[Tom Freston]

Yeah.

[Joe Kernen]

Don't just.

[Becky Quick]

And you thought he was right. You thought he was mad.

[Joe Kernen]

When I do that.

[Becky Quick]

You thought he was.

[Joe Kernen]

I also thought he was right when he said that, you know, talked about the Fed and criticized the Fed.

[Becky Quick]

Right. So my only point, you, you are seen as.

[Joe Kernen]

You channel Marjorie Taylor Greene now. So don't. Don't.

[Becky Quick]

He was. The point I was trying to make is he was seen as somebody who could step into this role in what was a chaotic situation at OpenAI and help settle things down. And of course, now he has roiled that himself with his own personal problems. And now, of course, they're going to have to find somebody else to join that board.

[Joe Kernen]

I was. He's still going to teach at Harvard. And the person that was talking yesterday was saying there's no way you can stay. She was with a legal.

[Becky Quick]

Look, I think there's a real question and I think right now there's a lot going on behind the scenes from what I understand in terms of. I don't know about whether that's going to continue.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Up next on Squawk Pod, what the Wall Street Journal's Greg Earp calls a joyless revolution in artificial intelligence, especially compared to the dot com bubble of the.

[Greg Ip]

90S, you just don't see that kind of optimism. It feels more like resignation, anxiety. And from some people, I've even heard dread about what AI means for them.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

For society, public suspicion of technology and the AI companies pushing it forward. Anyway, right after this break, the heaviest.

[Becky Quick]

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[Joe Kernen]

FedEx.

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[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Welcome back to Squawk Pod.

[Joe Kernen]

You're watching Squawk Box on cnbc. I'm Joe Kernan along with Andrew Ross Sorkin. Becky is off today. Several recent deals, including yesterday's news that in video and Microsoft will pour $15 billion into anthropic renewing concerns of an AI bubble. Join us now Greg Epp, deputy economics editor and chief economics commentator for the Wall Street Journal. The title of his latest piece, the Most Joyless Tech Revolution Ever. AI Is Making Us Rich and Unhappy. I'm always happy. Great when I wake up and everything and feel okay. But I guess I kind of get what you're saying, but I'm not sure it's a bad thing because we were all happy in 1999. We were all going to party like it's 1999. Right? Maybe this skepticism that we have now is actually the Wall of worry that allows us to not be like 1999 because we're unhappy about it or skeptical.

[Greg Ip]

Well, I don't know about that, Joe. I mean, notwithstanding the unhappiness among the general public, it doesn't seem to be bothering Wall Street. I don't see any wall of worry there. But, yeah, let's go back to the 90s, because I covered that period as a journalist in the finance section at the Wall Street Journal. And I feel a real difference in just the overall atmosphere between then and now. I mean, that period was one. It was really kind of exciting and crazy, right? I mean, remember the sock puppet and the tow truck driver who got rich and bought his own island by trading Internet stocks? There was sort playfulness to that whole era, and they were like everybody was quitting their day job to go start a dot com. So, yeah, it was kind of crazy. And the bubble did burst, but the mood was very upbeat. And I don't feel that now. I mean, I feel that, you know, unless you're like Sam Altman, you know, or Satya Nadella, I just feel. Or you just don't see that kind of optimism. It feels more like resignation, anxiety. And from some people, I've even heard dread about what AI means for them, for society, and for the availability of jobs.

[Joe Kernen]

Are you sure that doesn't mean we're in the early innings of this and that what you're talking about finally happens. But if you're early, it's got a long way to go, Maybe.

[Becky Quick]

Sure.

[Greg Ip]

So is this like 1995 or is it 2000 on dotcom equivalent? Right. I think that's what you're sort of asking. Look, I mean, one thing we know from history is that as people get more used to a technology, they become more comfortable with it. So kind of, you know, in the early days of Internet and email, people worried about loss of privacy and so on, but they eventually got used to it, and that did not stop the rollout. But again, I would be hesitant to draw parallels between past technologies in this technology. I looked at a survey from 1995. Are you comfortable or uncomfortable with the Internet? Two to one people were comfortable. Then I looked at a survey that you at CNBC did in the summer, exact opposite, with a 2 to 1 uncomfortable. And I also think, Joe, this has something to do with the overall sort of bad mood the country has, not just about AI, but in general. Right. I mean, Trump is very frustrated that he's got low approval ratings on the economy, even though he thinks thinks he's Doing a lot for it, which is a lot of what similar to what Joe Biden was going through in the last year of his presidency. And I think it's because there are so many things that are weighing down on people right now. It's like the cost of living under Joe Biden, it was the border. And I think now that is kind of like going in with that mixture too. So if you're asking the question, why is there a disconnect between numbers that say the economy is good but people's moods are so lousy, I think that is a piece of that story.

[Joe Kernen]

It might be social media puts everyone in a bad mood because it's, because it's poisonous and we just had a government shutdown. And you see the, the political rhetoric because of the social media on both sides of the aisle is so cancerous at this point that everybody is in a bad mood. I'm not sure it's because of AI. This might be the current political mood of the country, which, which you just alluded to, but I think it's all flamed. The fan, the flames are fanned by what the anonymous social media just nastiness that it has everyone sort of aware of it and then it gets amplified in the regular media.

[Becky Quick]

Sure, I mean, that's one part to say. But you had Greg Pinto from JP Morgan yesterday saying he thinks there's a correction. Got John Waldron this morning from Goldman Sachs saying he thinks in AI no, he thinks the stock. They're all talking about a potential broader correction in the market, the stock market and what that ultimately portends for the economy or what it says about.

[Joe Kernen]

Greg, you just said there's no wall of worry. I think it's the most hated market rally in history that we're in right now.

[Greg Ip]

Well, I mean, you could be right. But let's ask the following question. Leave aside whether it's a bubble or not. So the S and P is up what, 15% this year. People's 401ks are doing great. Like the average American household is financially, on paper, doing quite well. So why are moods so lousy? So I would argue that one reason why is that the people that are benefiting from this technology, the AI, either because they use it mostly because it's in their 401k are not the same people worrying about their lots of jobs. So like, if, let's say if you're in your 50s and your kids are just coming out of college, you know, you probably have a 401k, you're probably looking at retirement in five to 10 years. But you're worried about your kids. Are they going to have a job? You know, I spoke to some people for this column, right. They work in finance, they work in other areas. They don't know where the career paths are, where the promotions are, because all they hear all day long is that those jobs, those careers are going to be done by AI. I mean, wouldn't you be kind of like anxious?

[Joe Kernen]

I don't know whether it's AI or just overall, Greg, but it's a good point. But we're happy here and I think you're basically happy, aren't you?

[Becky Quick]

Yeah, but if you don't. But if you're a young person and you can't get a job and what I can't figure out, Greg, is what we're talking about. Are we ultimately talking about talking in the next couple of years about what Dario Modi from Anthropic has talked about, which is we could be, you know, upwards of 10% unemployment more. Are we talking about 20% unemployment? And we may. Yeah. No, from AI. Are we talking about going back to, you know, I wrote about 1932, 25% unemployment in this country. Is that where this is going? And if that's the case, we keep talking about this prospect, something, you know, there's going to be a step change. If there is a step change, it's going to require a complete rethink and shift about impact our entire society in so many ways. And I know people talk about it as a sort of theoretical idea, but are we seeing the first breadcrumbs of it?

[Greg Ip]

So I don't know whether it's going to be a zero impact on a zero unemployment rate impact, a 10 point or a 20 point. But I'll tell you the one thing, Andrew, I mean, can you think of another technology that we, that you talked about on this show in the last 20 or 30 years where one of the key proponents of that technology, somebody like Adaro, came on and basically predicted that millions of people are going to lose their jobs and their livelihoods because of his technology? I don't think so. So don't you think it's kind of telling that the very people who are promoting and spreading and developing this technology and are like the ones that we're all listening to are telling, are describing this like dystopian future? Now if I were a betting man, I would say it's probably not going to be as sweeping as Dario says. Look, the guy is at the center of it. Most people who are involved in promoting this technology. Of course they're bullish about it, right? But we do know that the run rates of revenue from these companies are growing fast, but they're nothing like what you would expect to see if in fact, you know, every middle management job is going to be replaced next year. So I personally think that people's fears are a little bit out of place here. But I would also say the AI industry would be foolish not to sort of take on board the kind of suspicion and mistrust there is out there. I mean, I looked at polling data that showed that when people were asked about various industries, do you want more regulation or less regulation, it was, I really stood out. People had a very low trust of AI and a desire for more regulation that was very different from banking, health care or utilities and energy. And I think that's a warning signal and something that the industry has to think about because they can't be indifferent to how the public feels about this.

[Becky Quick]

Greg, want to thank you as always for your smart analysis of everything, and we look forward to seeing you again very, very soon.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Tease will be next, coming up on Squawk Pot.

[Becky Quick]

I want my mtv. I want my MTV back.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Former Viacom CEO and co founder of mtv, Tom Freston. Video killed the radio star and then a changing business killed music television. This veteran tells us where it all goes from here.

[Tom Freston]

When I was there, everything was sort of ascended. Now it's, you know, you have a shrinking business, it's more difficult. People are contraction. They want costs reduced.

[Becky Quick]

This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions and key results and statistics that may impact impact your trading. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] MarketUpdatePodcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you.

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We'Re all about great jeans. You know, the ones that fit you.

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Because you don't just wear jeans, you live in them. Find great jeans starting at $29.90 in stores [e-mail] you're listening to Squawk Pod from CNBC, here's Andrew Ross Sorkin.

[Becky Quick]

Welcome back to Squawk Box. I'm excited for the this one. The media landscape is now in constant change of course with mergers, acquisitions and spinoffs. But we're going to talk about maybe going back in the past and maybe we'll talk about the future as well. Tom Preston, he is the co founder of mtv, former CEO of Viacom. He's got a new book out is called Unplugged Folks Adventures from MTV to Timbuktu. It is available today. I want my mtv. I want my MTV back. Tom.

[Tom Freston]

Well, yeah, I think a lot of people, people do. Maybe it's going to come back. Who knows? They've got new owners now.

[Becky Quick]

They do have new owners. We'll talk about that in a moment. But go back in time because I think the history of mtv, I mean so much of what is on TV today and I would even argue what's happened on social media started with you and started with mtv.

[Tom Freston]

Well, it kind of brought in sort of a new visual vocabulary and style to television. A new, new way of editing and moving things along on a sort of nonlinear basis. Yeah.

[Becky Quick]

And the song I Want my mtv.

[Tom Freston]

Oh my God, you know that song like was a gift to us. First of all, it was a takedown of mtv. It was really called Money for Nothing. Look at those yo yos get chicks for free. And, and what was the thing A Dire Straits. It was a worldwide hit. So when I would travel to India or you know, anywhere in Asia or Africa or Europe, they already, they knew MTV from that song. They had already heard of MTV and that song was like an advertisement for it. So it made our life much easier.

[Becky Quick]

How do you feel about Paramount today and what's happened to MTV?

[Tom Freston]

Well, what's happened to MTV in the last 10 years or so is really terrible. I mean they, they ripped the name Music Television off the bottom of the logo. They, they, all the music people there sort of left. They haven't put them putting money into it. It became sort of a repository for B grade reality shows. There was no music on television so let's just take music off.

[Becky Quick]

So I used to watch the Real World love the Real World dwindling.

[Tom Freston]

Well, there was a certain amount of non music programming was good but then to totally eliminate music was something else. Except they would do the Music Video Awards once a year.

[Becky Quick]

Do you think it could have been transformed? I mean you left before it had the opportunity.

[Tom Freston]

I think you could. Well, we had, we had a series of issues I mean, first of all, we had issues with the record companies. They didn't want to license music videos to us to use on the Internet.

[Becky Quick]

Right.

[Tom Freston]

So we, they didn't want to create another MTV on the Internet. So YouTube and vivo kind of emerged. I do believe there's a way MTV could be reimagined now in this era, but that's sort of up to the Ellisons, to David Ellison and Jeff Shell. I mean, we had, I had a meeting with them. They were during their due diligence phase. Yeah, they had a dinner for me and Judy McGrath and Doug Herzog and Van. They just want to know what was it like in the old days? I mean, what was.

[Becky Quick]

So what did you advise them about what you could do to it today?

[Tom Freston]

I advise them because they also said, you know, boy, we're losing money. Nobody's watching. The average age of MTV viewers like 53.

[Becky Quick]

Right.

[Tom Freston]

Our advice was, you know, get a lot of 20 year olds who were kind of like up to speed, who are music fanatics, put them in a room, was put them away for a couple of weeks and see what they could come up with, you know, with someone like Rick Rubin or someone who's a real kind of good musicologist and see if you can reinvent it for this digital world.

[Becky Quick]

You've seen now so many different cycles in media and now, you know, the advent of streaming and everything else. Do you think that all this concept, you know, you also went through consolidation at, you know, Paramount was split up, put back together. Now there's conversations about whether, you know, Time Warner Discovery should be part of that and all the rest. How do you look at it now and what do you think it looks like in the future?

[Tom Freston]

Well, it looks like there's going to be more consolidation. That's sort of the theme. I mean, it seems inevitable that Warner Brothers Discovery is going to be taken up by Paramount or by Brian Roberts and Comcast. I mean, so there's going to be another. And really Warner Brothers is sort of like the premier movie studio with the greatest halo around in Hollywood is going to be absorbed by somebody else. And you know, that's going to mean people are going to lose jobs. And I hate it when creative companies kind of get all merged together. I mean, we saw it with Fox and Disney.

[Becky Quick]

And so I got a hard one for you because you've been, you run media companies for a long time and I wonder how much do you think the quality of the management of these media companies matters to attracting talent and being able to create great Programming versus just being able to write a big check. And the reason I say this is, you know, Netflix came out of nowhere. How did they come out of nowhere? They came out of nowhere by writing and possibly even overpaying for great programming. Apple was never in this business. They write big checks, they get, they get lots of great programming. Most of the money seems to accomplish crew to the creatives. By the way, I'm in the creative business so that's great. But as a business, I wonder what you think of the media business.

[Tom Freston]

Well, you know, I think you're right. It's hard to resist a big check. And Netflix won a big way in a big check. But if you also look at how they've staffed themselves since and they've been more reliant on creating programming and attracting talent, they've hired a cadre of executives who are more talent friendly than it used to be. These aren't just like, you know, bean counters or tech guys. These are people kind of from the Hollywood establishment who've migrated over there and are integrated into these companies now. So they resemble more like the Hollywood companies of your. Not perfectly, but having someone that's a talent magnet or talent friendly and having that reputation is a big advantage. That was sort of the nucleus of what we had at MTV Network back in the day. We wanted to be, be, you know, seen as a creative first company.

[Becky Quick]

Feels like, it feels like a lot of money though is now moving away from even what might describe as traditional programming or news programming. Other things to sports that sports is. If you were running one of these networks, is that what you would be doing?

[Tom Freston]

Well, I wouldn't be. I mean I'm not a sports nut. I don't know it but I mean sports soaks up a lot of money, right. And it's amazing to me the fees that the NFL than what people get, you know, because that's like your anchor and you can, you know, if you have a big sports deal, it's everything else is sort of trimming like that's the turkey. And you know, you try and fill in with movies and series but you've.

[Becky Quick]

Been involved in the news business do. What do you think of the news business?

[Tom Freston]

People like news but there's a lot of places to get it. I mean, I don't know what's going to happen with the news networks. And look, if you have news and sports and you still have, if you're a linear network like cnbc, right. You're still sort of a must carry. I mean you've got Stuff that's exclusive.

[Becky Quick]

And it's exclusive interview right here with, with, with Preston. So it's, it's big.

[Tom Freston]

So I mean, you're CNBC is in a good spot. You sort of own the finance position on the television landscape and you're hard to dislodge. You like sort of Google in a way, in your own little area. Who else is going to take away what you've got?

[Joe Kernen]

New economy. Expound on that little bit. Can you just, just keep talking?

[Becky Quick]

It just keeps saying the hours.

[Joe Kernen]

It gets a more detail and color to how great you're.

[Becky Quick]

That. Yeah, exactly.

[Tom Freston]

That's an important part of the puzzle.

[Joe Kernen]

They might, they don't watch it. I want to know.

[Tom Freston]

They want.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah, but when you, when you go back and think about your career and like the biggest lesson of this, I mean, there's so many fabulous stories in this book about everything that's gone on. If you were to go back and start your career all over again today, would you do it in the media business?

[Tom Freston]

Yeah, I would. I mean, because I'm drawn naturally to, you know, the entertainment forum. I mean, you, you want to work with something you love. I mean, there's not a lot of other things I like this much. You can still make a living in this business. I mean, the, the situation has certainly changed. But I'd be attracted to start all over again, although a lot more complicated. Sometimes I bless myself for not being in it these days and having to deal with, you know, when I was there, everything was sort of ascendant. Right now it's, you know, you have a shrinking business, it's more difficult. People are contractually, they want costs reduced and people are walking out of buildings with banker boxes full of stuff getting laid off. It's.

[Becky Quick]

Who is the best manager executive that you think you worked with or even didn't work with, but saw during this period. And I asked because we oftentimes think about the great CEOs in America, but oftentimes you just, I think alluding to it, there's a period of time in certain industries where you got the wind at your back. And then there's other times where a complete industry has the wind at its front and how we sort of index the quality of the, the CEO in the middle of, of that against sort of the wind at your back versus the wind at your front kind of.

[Tom Freston]

I could cite a couple of people. One would be Bob Iger, who's been able to be there in the ascendant in complicated days. And he made some of the Right. Bets. You know, as the digital companies were beginning to take down the legacy media companies, he doubled down and bought all these, you know, content companies like Lucasfilm and Pixar and so forth, launched Disney plus. I go back a bit and I look at like the old duo Bob Daly and Terry Semel, who have probably the greatest run in the history of Hollywood.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah.

[Tom Freston]

Or when they were running Warner Brothers, I mean, they had steel trap mines for business. Bob always used to tell me, remember, it's show business. Don't forget that second word. Very important. And they were still able to, you know. You know, they were sort of the masters of the day, the glory days of Hollywood.

[Joe Kernen]

So you call CNBC linear? I guess we're still linear in. We're cables.

[Tom Freston]

I got a big digital presence.

[Becky Quick]

Right.

[Joe Kernen]

And we're cable, obviously. And now we're getting spun off and does it matter whether we're streaming cable, whatever we are, does the content stay valuable?

[Tom Freston]

Your content stays as strong as it is. You have this leadership position, you know, I don't know how many, I don't know your numbers, where people. Where people are. You probably have a big digital presence, probably accumulate a lot of, you know, because you're on all day long.

[Joe Kernen]

If you were running Versant, would you be a buyer of things that are like cnbc?

[Tom Freston]

That's a good question, because you're lumped in with a lot of other linear channels that may not have the same exclusive amount of content or the aptitude that you guys have. I mean, you've got quite a portfolio of other channels that are probably not going to do really well, but there's.

[Joe Kernen]

Going to be a lot available. I mean, a lot of. Well, we know what people are interested in at Warner Brothers and they're not necessarily interested in all the cable networks. They're interested in few. And so there's going to be a lot around that's got to get together with someone you to want would think. And then does that stay cable? Does it switch to stream? I mean, I don't know what the.

[Tom Freston]

People are probably going to forget the word cable after a while. Everything's going to somehow, you know, be streamed. I don't know what happens in particular with your network, but do you think it all.

[Becky Quick]

I know we got to run. Do you think it all just gets rebundled though, in the end?

[Tom Freston]

Yeah. I mean, which reminds you, that old who song, Meet the new Boss, same.

[Joe Kernen]

As the old boss.

[Tom Freston]

You know, everything's bundled together and it's costing this huge amount of money all over Again, it used to be, well, now Netflix was like, you know, $10. He could drop everything and just have Netflix. But now it's, you know, you got to have.

[Joe Kernen]

I think that ends with we won't get fooled again. Which is not great. Right?

[Tom Freston]

We're going to get fooled again.

[Joe Kernen]

It's going to happen anyway. That's right.

[Becky Quick]

Tom Freston, want to thank you for coming in. The book is called Unplugged. We want to do, by the way, a streaming show. Just so you know, we could actually call it either Unplugged or the Real World during the commercial break.

[Joe Kernen]

On the break.

[Becky Quick]

On the break. Would you want to come in and be part of that?

[Tom Freston]

You mean, is it going to be a regular series?

[Becky Quick]

We're thinking it should be daily. That we should charge a separate stream that goes on during the commercial way we don't TV right now, by the way, just so you know.

[Joe Kernen]

We are.

[Becky Quick]

We are. Yeah, we're still on.

[Joe Kernen]

We never really say what we mean on tv. So what really happens on the break is even more like crazier.

[Tom Freston]

That's a good idea.

[Becky Quick]

You think? You think? But we're also worried about getting canceled.

[Tom Freston]

You guys are throwing around a lot of inside financial information.

[Becky Quick]

Oh, no, no. We're throwing around stuff that's on page Six is what you said I was.

[Joe Kernen]

Going to show you. I said, no, I'm not going to do that.

[Becky Quick]

Don't do that.

[Joe Kernen]

I have a description of Jeffrey Epstein.

[Becky Quick]

You know what? I think we should hold that. You should hold that idea for part.

[Joe Kernen]

Of the on the streaming show. On the break.

[Becky Quick]

Okay.

[Joe Kernen]

All right.

[Becky Quick]

I'm your cancellation at this moment, at.

[Joe Kernen]

Least for I'll show Thomas when we go to break.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah. Before we get canceled, how about calling it for today? Thank you for listening to Squawk Pod. Squawk Box is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick, and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Tune in weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 Eastern. Get the best of our TV show right into your ears when you follow Squawk Pod wherever you like to get your podcasts. We'll meet you right back here tomorrow.

[Eamon Javers]

We are clear.

[Tom Freston]

Thanks, guys.

[Maurices Announcer]

At Capella University, learning the right skills could make a difference. That's why our business programs teach you relevant skills you can take from the course room to the workplace. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at Capella Eduardo.