Nicolás Maduro in New York & Versant on the Nasdaq 1/5/25

Summary

Squawk Pod – January 5, 2026

Episode Summary: Nicolás Maduro in New York & Versant on the Nasdaq

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Main Theme and Purpose

This episode of Squawk Pod centers on two major stories:

1. The dramatic U.S.-led operation that resulted in the capture of Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro—now facing federal drug charges in New York—and the related political, legal, and economic ramifications, particularly surrounding Venezuela's oil reserves and international relations.
2. The Nasdaq debut of Versant, the newly independent parent company of CNBC, highlighted through an interview with CEO Mark Lazarus regarding the company's strategic direction post-spin-off.

Hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick, and Andrew Ross Sorkin, the episode delivers real-time analysis, notable interviews, and live market context as both historic news events unfold.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. U.S. Capture of Nicolás Maduro and Its Implications

The Operation

• Summary: Nicolás Maduro, after losing Venezuela's recent (contested) election and refusing to cede control, was apprehended in a U.S. operation involving explosions and helicopters over Caracas. He was transported to New York to face longstanding narco-terrorism charges.
  • "[It] gave it the feel of something very different from regime change in Venezuela." – Becky Quick [04:54]
• U.S. officials insist it was strictly law enforcement, but the operation had significant regime-change overtones.

Political Reactions and Constitutional Questions

• Division: Initial responses in Washington and beyond have followed party lines:
  • Republicans laud the action as overdue and courageous.
    • "This is something that other administrations didn’t have the courage to do." – Becky Quick paraphrasing Senator Lindsey Graham [07:39]
  • Democrats question constitutionality and Congressional oversight, raising concerns about U.S. involvement in foreign sovereignty and parallels to past interventions.
    • "Democrats...questioned the constitutionality...why Congress wasn't informed about this or had any role in this whatsoever." – Becky Quick [07:39]
• Administration's Justification: The White House claims operational secrecy was essential due to risk, timing, and security.

U.S. Role in Venezuela Post-Operation

• President Trump announced interim U.S. control over Venezuela:
  • “We’re going to rebuild the oil infrastructure.... It will be paid for by the oil companies directly, they will be reimbursed...” – Administration remarks [05:48], Jay Clayton [05:48]
• Debate ensues over how much the U.S. will "own" the aftermath (Colin Powell’s ‘you break it, you buy it’ doctrine):
  • "The expression, 'if you break it, you own it.' This was broken." – Andrew Ross Sorkin [13:39]
  • "Can the United States fix it? That's the governance challenge here, which is more than a military challenge." – Becky Quick [13:58]

Oil, Geopolitics, and International Concerns

• Venezuela's massive oil reserves (17% of global supply) are front and center.
• Broader U.S. strategy includes limiting Russian, Chinese, and Iranian influence in the region.
  • “We're just not going to allow a country with those oil reserves in our own hemisphere become a playground...for US enemies, including...Russia and China, but also Iran.” – Becky Quick [09:41]
• Reports surfaced of Venezuelan oil tankers fleeing port under cloaking efforts to evade the new U.S. blockade.
  • “As many as a dozen or more [ships] have left port and are making a run for it right now with their transponders off and engaging in cloaking efforts to try to...get out of the U.S. blockade.” – Becky Quick [10:10]

Public Response and On-the-Ground Reality

• There is reported relief among many Venezuelans, though some want assurances of sovereignty and transition:
  • "Maduro was not a popular figure in Venezuela.... There’s going to be some relief there. The questions are—what is the U.S. role going to be in...running Venezuela?" – Becky Quick [11:40]
• The vice president of Venezuela's initial resistance shifted towards calls for dialogue, indicating possible flexibility.

Notable Quote

• "Drug trafficking, fentanyl, cocaine, other similarly deadly drugs is a global, sophisticated business where the players have the resources and...the infrastructure equivalent to our best-run companies." – Jay Clayton [01:33, 28:36]

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2. Legal Perspective: Interview with Jay Clayton (U.S. Attorney for Southern District of New York)

Origins & Basis for Prosecution

• The case against Maduro dates back to 2011, with narco-terrorism and cocaine importation charges expanded in a 2020 indictment.
• "This case...has been there for that long. Nicolás Maduro was charged in 2020 as part of that conspiracy..." – Jay Clayton [18:26]
• Jay Clayton highlights existing legal precedents (Noriega, Libya, Benghazi, PanAm 103) for bringing foreign leaders to U.S. courts.
  • "There is precedent...my people and I are completely comfortable with this prosecution." – Jay Clayton [21:31]

Legal, Ethical, and Geopolitical Friction Points

• Hosts press Clayton on:
  • The constitutionality of extracting a sovereign leader
  • Immunity and recognition questions (was Maduro a legitimate head of state?)
    • "The Biden administration, the EU...did not recognize Maduro as the duly elected leader of Venezuela." – Jay Clayton [22:34]
  • Consistency—why intervention here versus elsewhere (e.g., Mexico, Honduras)?
    • "I think you have to deal with each of these things idiosyncratically..." – Jay Clayton [25:19]
• Debate over U.S. motivations: law enforcement vs. resource control?
  • "Is this a pretext for our ability to control valuable oil?" – Joe Kernan [24:43]
  • "I'm totally comfortable with this." – Jay Clayton [26:08, 30:09]

Rule of Law & American Process

• Clayton emphasizes due process and the presumption of innocence:
  • "Every person charged in the United States is entitled to the presumption of innocence and has their day in court." – Jay Clayton [19:27]
• Transparent judicial process compared favorably to regimes without open discourse (Russia, China).
  • "We respect the rule of law. We respect process. We absolutely respect people's rights." – Jay Clayton [26:51]
  • "We are the leading country of the Western hemisphere...it's important that we are able to flex our muscles to some extent here." – Andrew Ross Sorkin [28:02]

U.S. Crime Strategy and Local Law Enforcement

• Clayton discusses broader federal efforts to combat drug and gun violence—“what the American people want.”
  • "The people of New York want career criminals who use guns in crimes. They want continuous custody when those people are arrested." – Jay Clayton [33:03]
• Pulls parallels between his work in New York and the battle against transnational criminals like Maduro.

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3. Versant’s Nasdaq Debut and Future (Interview with Mark Lazarus)

Company Spin-off

• Versant officially launches on the Nasdaq as an independent media company, having spun off from Comcast/NBCU.
• “Everything we do is going to matter and every little piece is…there’s going to be a much more of a magnifying glass on what we do.” – Mark Lazarus [02:05, 39:52]

Strategic Vision

• Vertical Integration:
  • Focus is on deepening and expanding verticals such as news, sports, and niche content (e.g., Golf Channel and Golf Pass partnerships with Rory McIlroy).
    • "Vertical scale is going to be a way for us to differentiate and to diversify our business to be not so beholden to pay TV." – Mark Lazarus [38:16]
  • Plans include significant investments in digital properties (especially for CNBC and MSNBC) and direct-to-consumer offerings.
• Acquisition Philosophy:
  • Open to inorganic growth if assets fit vertical model, but priority is organic investment in existing strengths.
    • "If there were pieces...that fit into our desire to build around a linear service and grow them vertically...that might be interesting, but that's not our priority right now." – Mark Lazarus [42:36]
• Comparative Value:
  • Lazarus believes Versant is well-positioned financially and undervalued compared to others:
    • "We like our balance sheet. We're being launched with a fortified balance sheet that's going to really allow us to...be aggressive..." – Mark Lazarus [44:02]
    • "We think we compare favorably to...the pure plays and we think that our growth strategy will be a winner." – Mark Lazarus [44:02]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Andrew Ross Sorkin (re: Venezuela intervention):
  "You can't turn Venezuela into the operating hub for Iran, for Russia, for Hezbollah, for China, for Cuban intelligence agents... That cannot continue." [09:58]

• Becky Quick (on U.S. obligations post-intervention):
  "Colin Powell's warning was if you break it, you bought it... The question is, does the United States want to own it or not? Clearly now the United States owns it politically and can the United States fix it? That's the governance challenge here, which is more than a military challenge." [13:58]

• Jay Clayton (on rule of law):
  "These are allegations. Every person charged in the United States is entitled to the presumption of innocence and has their day in court." [19:27]

• Mark Lazarus (on Versant’s approach):
  "You're going to be able to look at where are the best ideas in this portfolio—not in a much larger portfolio. But as importantly, everything we do is going to matter..." [39:52]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Time | Segment/Topic | |---------|----------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:03 | Episode introduction with breaking Venezuela news | | 04:54 | Becky Quick reports on operation to capture Maduro | | 06:02 | U.S. focus on Venezuela’s oil reserves and implications | | 07:39 | Washington political response, questions of constitutionality | | 09:30 | Chinese/Russian/Iranian interests in Venezuela | | 10:55 | U.S. legal precedent (Noriega, Panama) and public response | | 13:02 | Democratic Party reactions and the “broken” state of Venezuela | | 15:18 | Jay Clayton introduction: background on the Maduro prosecution | | 17:05 | In-depth Jay Clayton interview: legal, constitutional questions | | 21:31 | Legal precedents and U.S. prosecution powers discussed | | 26:08 | Discussion of possible U.S. motivation—oil vs. law enforcement | | 28:36 | Clayton on global nature of drug trafficking and cartel power | | 33:03 | On New York law enforcement, community safety, and federal powers | | 36:15 | Transition to Versant’s Nasdaq launch and Mark Lazarus interview | | 37:40 | Mark Lazarus on Versant’s strategic priorities post-spin-off | | 39:52 | Investing in digital, vertical scale, and acquisition strategy | | 44:02 | Competitive positioning vs. industry peers | | 45:34 | Episode close |

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Conclusion: Flow and Takeaways

This episode captures one of the most dramatic intersections of U.S. foreign policy, law enforcement, and business in recent memory:

• The capture and prosecution of Nicolás Maduro is fraught with constitutional, political, and international consequences, and Squawk Box’s anchors interrogate these at every level.
• The situation highlights America’s challenge in balancing global policing efforts, domestic rule of law, and ethical governance.
• Simultaneously, a seismic shift in the media business occurs as Versant spins off and redefines its digital and content strategy, signaling both change and opportunity in a turbulent industry.

For listeners or readers, this episode provides in-depth, multidimensional coverage of two major stories as they unfold—blending sharp political analysis, legal reasoning, real-time business context, and candid executive insight.

Transcript

[Becky Quick]

Comcast business helps retailers become seamlessly restocking, frictionless paying favorite shopping destinations.

[Joe Kernan]

It's how nationwide restaurants become touchscreen ordering quick serving eateries and how hospitals become the patient scanning data, managing healthcare facilities that we all depend on. With leading networking and connectivity, advanced cybersecurity.

[Becky Quick]

And expert partnership, Comcast business is powering.

[Joe Kernan]

The engine of modern business powering possibilities, restriction supply.

[Becky Quick]

Hey Fidelity, can I get a second opinion on stocks in the Fidelity app?

[Katie Kramer]

With Fidelity, it's easy to get an outside opinion from independent experts in a single score. And then when you're ready, trade US stocks and ETFs with no commissions.

[Jay Clayton]

That's right.

[Katie Kramer]

I am always right.

[Jay Clayton]

Investing involves risk, including risk of loss online US equity trades and ETFs and retail fidelity account sell order assessment fee.

[Mark Lazarus]

Not included some account types and securities excluded.

[Jay Clayton]

Details of fidelity.com commissions Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC member NYSE SIPC.

[Becky Quick]

Bring in show music please.

[Katie Kramer]

Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod, the stunning overthrow of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. Wall street reacts.

[Joe Kernan]

We're not going to make this political this morning.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Says who? Says who?

[Katie Kramer]

Our Eamonn Javers with the latest from Washington.

[Becky Quick]

In the President's first remarks to the public, Venezuela's vast oil wealth was front and center.

[Katie Kramer]

And the man prosecuting the case in the U.S. against Maduro, U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, Jay Clayton.

[Jay Clayton]

Drug trafficking, fentanyl, cocaine, other similarly deadly drugs is a global sophisticated business where the players have the resources and I would say the infrastructure equivalent to our to our best run companies.

[Mark Lazarus]

Plus we are going through with it.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It's going to happen.

[Mark Lazarus]

Here we go. It's been a year in the making.

[Katie Kramer]

The first day of the rest of our lives. The media industry's newest kid on the block, Versant, made up from these spun off cable networks of NBC CEO Mark Lazarus.

[Mark Lazarus]

Everything we do is going to matter and every little piece is, you know, there's going to be a much more of a magnifying glass on what we do.

[Katie Kramer]

It's Monday, January 5th, 2026. Squawk Pod begins right now.

[Joe Kernan]

Stand Becky by in 3, 2, 1.

[Becky Quick]

Q.

[Katie Kramer]

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Squawk Box right here on cnbc. We are live from the NASDAQ markets at Times Square. I'm Becky Quick along with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorkin. And here we go.

[Mark Lazarus]

Happy New Year back.

[Joe Kernan]

What a way to begin the new year with a real we are back.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

With a bang that's good for the people of Venezuela but also good for the people of Versa.

[Katie Kramer]

Yes. Big day today is already rolled out here at the NASDAQ for Versant.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We're going to be around in the background, I would think. I don't think we're probably not going to be actually ringing the.

[Joe Kernan]

We're ringing the bell, folks.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, we probably will be.

[Joe Kernan]

Versant, parent company of cnbc. And Becky, it will start myself along with the other Morning Joe. He'll be here and Mika and a couple other folks are going to be here.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, and I love one even calling it talent. I mean, that was in Groundhog Day. Did he really just call himself the talent? Yeah, hairdo. But just call it. I mean, we use that in the loosest possible sense. But I don't know where we'll be standing. The important people are going to be ringing, probably ringing the bell. We're just going to be joining us.

[Joe Kernan]

A little later this morning.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We're happy to be for an extended interview of like 30 seconds. Hey, Mark, congratulations. Do what you do so well and just keep doing it. That's going to be my question.

[Becky Quick]

No blood for oil.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

No, no blood for oil. I mean, Venezuela is loaded with oil and they used to produce a lot of oil. And socialism. This is the result of what socialism can do to the means of production.

[Joe Kernan]

But huge questions. And this is where we're going to go with this. Huge questions. Just about.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, I know. I saw all the hair on fire.

[Becky Quick]

This is.

[Jay Clayton]

No, no.

[Joe Kernan]

The ability to control it, the amount of money it's going to take.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I understand.

[Joe Kernan]

Go again. If that's what this is really about.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

When we in the past, if you break it, you got to fix it. This was already broken. That's all I'll say. But that's what. But the weird thing is, after a week of trying to defend Somali fraud in Minnesota Democrats now. This is the first Venezuelan criminal that Democrats have not welcomed into the country.

[Joe Kernan]

We're not going to make this political this morning. We're going to get the latest right?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Says who?

[Joe Kernan]

Go to D.C. says who? We're going to try to keep this. Speak for yourself down the middle here. The latest in US Capture. Venezuela leader Maduro want to get to Eamon Javors. He's in Washington this morning with the latest. As the debate continues about what happens next.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah. Good morning, guys. The United States says it was strictly a law enforcement operation. But Friday nights, explosions, gunfire and darkened helicopters sweeping low over the Caracas skyline gave it the feel of something very different from regime change in Venezuela. And by Saturday, with Venezuelan Leader Nicolas Maduro in handcuffs in New York. It was clear that the clandestine U.S. operation was about both enforcing U.S. law and changing leadership in Venezuela. Now Maduro is expected to make his first appearance in federal court in the United States to face federal drug charges later today. And in the meantime, President Trump says the United States government will run the Latin American country for an unspecified period of time.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But we're going to be running it.

[Joe Kernan]

With a group and we're going to.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Make sure it's run properly. We're going to rebuild the oil infrastructure.

[Jay Clayton]

Which will cost billions of dollars. It will be paid for by the oil companies directly. They will be reimbursed for what they're.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Doing, but that's going to be paid.

[Mark Lazarus]

And we're going to get the oil.

[Jay Clayton]

Flowing the way it should be.

[Becky Quick]

And as you can see in the president's first remarks to the public, Venezuela's vast oil wealth was front and center in his explanation of what's going to happen next in that country. The country has largest proven oil reserves in the world, 303 billion barrels, which amounts to about 17% of all global reserves. That's according to the U.S. energy Information Administration. And even as they were briefing the press on the operation in Venezuela, administration officials, guys, had one eye on another country, Cuba. Secretary of State Marco Rubio appeared on TV over the weekend saying that the Trump administration doesn't like the Cuban government, which was closely aligned with Maduro, and that if I lived in Havana, he said, and I was in the government, I'd be concerned. President Trump, briefing reporters on Air Force One last night, also said that he believes that the government of Cuba is about to fall, he said, independent of any US Action because of the implosion of the Cuban economy. Guys, back over to you.

[Joe Kernan]

Eamon. In terms of speaking to folks in Washington over the past weekend that I know you have, what is the sense just from either members of Congress or the Senate about to the extent we're going to occupy or we're going to do whatever you think this next step is, obviously there's questions to some degree even about the constitutionality, about the invasion itself. Then obviously we're going to talk to Jay Clayton later today about what that prosecution is going to look like. Then there are the big questions about the business community. And to the extent that they're going to either go into Venezuela, invest in Venezuela, not invest in Venezuela. What are you hearing?

[Becky Quick]

Yeah, look, obviously there are more questions than answers this morning, Andrew, but your reaction initially fell, as you might imagine, on partisan lines. We Saw Lindsey Graham, United States Senator, flying on Air Force One with the president last night saying this is a great thing. This is something that other administrations didn't have the courage to do. Even the Biden administration, he said, had a $25 million bounty out on Maduro's head for information on his whereabouts and his return to the United States. So this is something that needed to be done. Democrats, on the other hand, questioned the constitutionality of it, questioned why they weren't, why Congress wasn't informed about this or had any role in this whatsoever. The administration said simply this wasn't the type of mission you could brief Congress on because Congress has a history of leaking and because they didn't know exactly when they were going to be able to conduct this. Given the complexity of the military operation, the need for secrecy, also the weather conditions, Maduro's whereabouts, all of that had to fall in line in one particular way in order for this operation to be successful. And they said they just didn't have time to notify Congress. So I think we're going to hear a lot more questions raised about this today, particularly what the administration's plan is for running, as the President says, the Venezuelan government. You saw Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, on TV over the weekend, sort of suggesting that actually what we're going to do as the United States government is sort of more or less co opt the existing Venezuelan government. And that seems to me to be, guys, a way of getting around the Iraq problem, which is where you devastate the leadership, devastate the army, devastate the infrastructure, and then try to build an entire new government up from scratch. This model seems to be trying to just co opt the existing infrastructure, existing government officials and just, you know, sort of nudge them to do what the US Government wants. We'll see if it works.

[Katie Kramer]

Hey Eamonn, we've talked an awful lot about the oil there. How much of this also though has to do with concern about Chinese and even Russian influence in Venezuela and the region.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

They're already there.

[Becky Quick]

I mean, I think that's a huge piece of it. I mean, Marco Rubio on television yesterday said, look, we're just not going to allow a country with those oil reserves in our own hemisphere become a playground, in effect for US enemies, including he name checked Russia and China, but also Iran.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You can't turn Venezuela into the operating hub for Iran, for Russia, for Hezbollah, for China, for the China, for the Cuban intelligence agents that control that country. That cannot continue.

[Becky Quick]

Now, I think one of the questions is what happens to Chinese assets and Russian assets in Venezuela? What does the US Government do with those? Assuming the US Government's going to be in a position to decide, and then, you know, ultimately, what happens to the oil? Does the United States, you know, dial down the oil supply to coming out of Venezuela to anywhere else other than the United States to zero? That's an open question. And the New York Times is reporting this morning, guys, that a number of Venezuelan oil ships, maybe as many as a dozen or more, have left port and are making a run for it right now with their transponders off and engaging in cloaking efforts to try to see if they can get out of that area and get out of the US Blockade. We'll see what the US Navy does about that.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

There is precedent, obviously, in the Constitution, does give the president a lot of leeway and things like this. In 1989, HW got rid of deposed Noriega, and this guy Maduro is a much bigger threat, much bigger threat to the the US and the world than Noriega ever was. And it all held up in court and Noriega ended up, you know, serving time. And, you know, obviously it's not, you know, exactly the same. Panama versus Venezuela. Do we have any vo of the millions of people out in the streets down in Venezuela that are finally free or any testimonials that I'm seeing? Eamon, I don't know if we can run any of that, but the people down there seem to be. There's a sense of relief that, you.

[Becky Quick]

Know, that nightmare, I mean, clearly there's some relief. Maduro was not a popular figure in Venezuela. You know, he had lost the recent election, clearly, and seized power anyway, despite losing the election. So, you know, there's going to be some relief there. I think the questions are, you know, what is the US Role going to be in, you know, quote, unquote, running Venezuela, as the president was talking about over the weekend, and how will that be received in Venezuela? There are going to be some people who will chafe at that and say, you know, we want Venezuelans to run Venezuela and can the US Sort of navigate that with this sort of co option strategy? You know, we saw the vice president of Venezuela come out initially denouncing this, demanding proof of life for Maduro, wanting to know, you know, what's going, what the U.S. s intent is here. She seems to be a key figure that the United States is banking on, at least President Trump is banking on to sort of come around to US View on things and become more Compliant. Her tone shifted through the course of the weekend and she called for dialogue and coexistence with the United States. By the time, sort of the weekend had come to a close. So maybe that bet in terms of personnel might play out for the US and then you get somebody in power who will be sort of, if not pro western, pro US at least willing to shut down some of the things that the United States objects to.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I mean, I saw different things coming from Democrats. A lot of the same Democrats that wanted to do this and are on. It was funny. I saw one Democrat, I think the one from Connecticut, actually the tape was played for him and he was like, you know, because he said that this would be a good thing, let's do it. But then he pivoted to something else. But Mark Kelly, to his credit in Arizona, said, no, I think this is good. I think it's a good move. It just depends on what happens from here. And it always does.

[Mark Lazarus]

I think having Maduro out of the country now, in New York, being prosecuted for his crimes is a positive thing. The big question is just what comes next and who winds up in charge.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

In Venezuela, the expression, if you break it, you, you own it. This was broken.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah. Colin Powell's famous warning.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And people are going to be waiting in the wings for something to go wrong and, you know, celebrating that. I understand that. But this could be good. This could be a good thing for the world eventually. Amen.

[Becky Quick]

It could be, yeah. It's a, it's a high risk, high reward strategy, no doubt. And you know, Colin Powell's warning was if you break it, you bought it. Your point, Joe? It was already broken. And the question is, does the United States want to own it or not? Clearly now the United States owns it politically and can the United States fix it? That's the governance challenge here, which is more than a military challenge. I mean, the military operation, you know, just as a non military guy, as an outsider watching that and reading the details of it, you know, incredibly impressive execution by the US Military here in terms of the timing, the delicacy of this. You know, there were some significant casualties on the Venezuelan side, but it was as surgical an operation as you can possibly imagine. Executed by the US Government. No US troops killed, no helicopters downed. I mean, it's a remarkable thing to witness. But the challenge is what happens next, right, and what happens in Venezuela and can the United States government succeed in this co option strategy or does there need to be, as the President threatened over the weekend, a second wave of US military involvement there. All of that is just very unclear at this time.

[Joe Kernan]

Okay, Eamonn, we're going to be talking to you a lot more and we're going to be learning a lot more this morning. Thank you.

[Becky Quick]

Tease will be next.

[Katie Kramer]

Coming up on SQUAWK pod, the man who will be prosecuting the case against Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro, U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, Jay Clayton. He says it's a long time coming, since 2011, in fact, this case involving.

[Jay Clayton]

Narco terrorism, the importation of cocaine with the facilitation of the farc, the use of government resources has been there for that long. Nicolas Maduro was charged in 2020 as part of that conspiracy in the superseding indictment.

[Becky Quick]

Hey, Fidelity, can I get a second opinion on stocks in the Fidelity app?

[Katie Kramer]

With Fidelity, it's easy to get an outside opinion from independent experts in a single score. And then when you're ready, trade US stocks and ETFs with no commissions.

[Jay Clayton]

That's right.

[Katie Kramer]

I am always right.

[Jay Clayton]

Investing involves risk, including risk of loss. Online US equity trades and ETFs and retail fidelity accounts sell order, assessment fee.

[Mark Lazarus]

Not included, some account types and securities excluded.

[Jay Clayton]

[e-mail] commissions Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC Member.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

NYSE, SIPC what made you confident that.

[Katie Kramer]

You could do something that hadn't been done before? I have no fear of failure. Trailblazing women, changing the game.

[Jay Clayton]

One of my favorite pieces of advice.

[Katie Kramer]

Think about what your boss's boss needs. Leadership can look in many, many different forms. It really does come down to just trusting yourself.

[Jay Clayton]

Life is short and you just gotta.

[Katie Kramer]

Think big to accomplish big things. Julia Boorstin hosts CNBC Changemakers and Power Players. New episodes every Tuesday. Wherever you get your podcasts, you're listening to Squawk Pod from CNBC with Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross.

[Becky Quick]

Sorkin up and Andrew Q.

[Joe Kernan]

Of course, the biggest news Venezuela is Maduro facing federal drug trafficking and weapon charges in a case now being handled by the Southern District of New York in Manhattan. Joining us right now, US Attorney for the Southern District of New York, Jay Clayton. He is a former SEC chair in the Trump administration. We're thrilled to have you on this morning to try to understand what comes next. Obviously, you're going to be down in Brooklyn, I imagine, or I don't know, Brooklyn, but in downtown later today. When did you learn this was all happening?

[Jay Clayton]

Well, let me say happy New Year.

[Joe Kernan]

Happy New Year.

[Jay Clayton]

Happy New Year. Congratulations on the spin today.

[Joe Kernan]

Oh, thank you.

[Jay Clayton]

You know, amazing that you've gotten it done this quickly and good luck with it.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We had a lot to do with it.

[Jay Clayton]

Yeah, you know, we're here, you're here, you're doing.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

How long, how long were you working on this?

[Jay Clayton]

How long? Well, just, just, just, just, just to clear the air, I, I was scheduled to be on. Yes, and I'm happy to be on and I'm happy to talk about this.

[Joe Kernan]

So let's talk about.

[Katie Kramer]

We.

[Joe Kernan]

You don't look that tired. So were you working all weekend?

[Jay Clayton]

Yeah, I was working all weekend, but my people are working even harder than I am.

[Joe Kernan]

And when did you, but when did you learn this was all going down?

[Jay Clayton]

When?

[Joe Kernan]

Well, let's, like, I assume at some point somebody in Washington calls you and says this is happening and you are going to be the one who's going to prosecute this case.

[Jay Clayton]

Let's separate the operation from the legal. This case has been in the Southern District since 2011. This case involving narco terrorism, the importation of cocaine with the facilitation of the farc, the use of government resources, has been there for that long. Nicholas Maduro was charged in 2020 as part of that conspiracy in a superseding indictment. We had another superseding indictment that was unsealed in connection with this operation furthering those charges. What is fascinating here is that if you look at the, and I would encourage the public to look at these publicly available documents as to what's going on. What's fascinating here is that there are already two people as part of this conspiracy. The former head of the equivalent of the CIA, the former head of intelligence, and a former high ranking military leader who have been convicted, pled guilty to these types of charges. Now the other thing that I want to say, and I'm proud to say it, I'm very proud to say this as an American, is that these are allegations. Every person charged in the United States is entitled to the presumption of innocence and has their day in court. And that's exactly how we should be treating this.

[Joe Kernan]

Okay, so just take us through the weekend though. So the President is down in Mar a Lago watching all of this. The helicopters are obviously down in Venezuela literally extracting him. You learn about this when, how, Walk us through what happened in terms of how you, I mean, did you know this was happening before it happened?

[Jay Clayton]

We knew that he was indicted. And if you were reading the news, right, you knew that this was a focus of the administration and it's not just a focus of the administration on Nicolas Maduro. If you ask, and we can bring this back to New York and then I'll go back to it. If you ask every New Yorker, what are the biggest threats that you see to New York and your safety, it's gun toting criminals and transnational drug trafficking into the United States. And those, those have been two focuses for a while. When I got to the office at the Southern District, the put aside white collar crime, something we talk about a lot in this program, there were three things that I focused on. One, this type of drug trafficking into the United States, we put additional resources on these types of matters. Second thing, you've heard me talk about it and gun crime is way down in the city. I'd like to think that we have a small part to do with it. Gun toting criminals. The other is sex trafficking, particularly minor sex trafficking. So we had, we had ramped up our efforts in connection with this prosecution.

[Joe Kernan]

Let me ask you about this then, because we're not going to get. Sounds like we're not going get the full blow by blow over the weekend from you.

[Jay Clayton]

Well, operations are not my thing. Operations are a military.

[Joe Kernan]

The biggest question I think that in the country to some degree is the constitutionality of us effectively going into another sovereign country and extracting the leader of that country. I imagine this is going to be the argument that his lawyers are going to make before you even get into the merits of the case itself.

[Jay Clayton]

And Andrew, for, thank you for saying that because for those reasons, let's, let's, let's stick to, you know, facts on the ground as we know them. People have been making the analogy to Noriega. There are other precedents to look at including, and I would encourage people to look at this, Libya, you know, Benghazi and the arrest of a number of people who were engaged in that. And then one that's close to my heart that was most recent, Pan Am 103. Now, after years and years, they finally brought to justice through Libya. Examples in Syria and combatants during those wars being back to the United States. So there is precedent. What I'll say from the perspective of where I sit, my people and I are completely comfortable with this prosecution.

[Katie Kramer]

Yeah, I think his lawyers have already suggested that he as a leader of another country, he is immune from prosecution. Is our argument that he's not officially elected Secretary Rubio.

[Jay Clayton]

And you know, that press conference from Mar? A Lago was pretty impressive. This is a president that will stand there and answer any question. The most accessible president in my lifetime, Secretary Rubio is somebody who I think doesn't waste a word and he was very clear about this, not only in that press conference but over the weekend. He said, you know, we never recognized the Biden administration, recognized the EU, never recognized, and 60 countries, and this is all in the indictment, did not recognize Maduro as the duly elected leader of Venezuela.

[Joe Kernan]

Do you know who's going to be representing him?

[Jay Clayton]

I do not.

[Joe Kernan]

You do not. So have you, have you had any communication with whoever would be representing his team?

[Jay Clayton]

I have not.

[Joe Kernan]

Okay.

[Jay Clayton]

I have not. My team may have.

[Joe Kernan]

There's a separate question and maybe it's the, it's, this is sort of again a broader question, which is if we, meaning the US prepared to arrest somebody like Maduro in their home country, why aren't we, I mean the critics of this, of the way this has been approached beyond the questions about congressional authority and other things would say, well, we should be going into Mexico, we should be going into all sorts of countries. They look at this and they say, well, what about the pardon of the exponential president of Honduras who did very something, something that seemingly seems like exactly the same thing. How do you react to that?

[Jay Clayton]

My, my answer is where I started, which is the state, the biggest threats to the United States are state sponsored crimes against Americans and narco trafficking into the United States, killing hundreds of thousands of people every year. And let me, one thing that I heard, which, you know, I have to say, I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm hearing this. Most of this is cocaine, not fentanyl, right? You've heard that like, okay, how many deaths are there because somebody thought they were taking cocaine and there was actually laced with fentanyl and you know, is cocaine somehow fine. Cocaine has been a scourge in this country, you know, my entire adult life. It's an absolutely terrible, terrible drug.

[Joe Kernan]

I guess the, the question is, where's the line then in terms of going into another country? And this, this is, this is the question. So you would, I mean, if you're going to do Venezuela, would you do Mexico? Is this a pretext? I mean the other question is this a. Here we are looking at the stock price of Chevron and other companies. Obviously Chevron is really the only major American company that has a, a big operation there. People, look, even what the president said, there's an argument to be made that is a pretext, right. Effectively for our ability to control valuable oil and minerals and other things.

[Jay Clayton]

Let me take a step back and say this, that these types of questions, they're interesting law school questions. I think you have to deal with each of these things idiosyncratically. Right. Did anybody. We had a killer capture against bin Laden, you know, and indicted, you know, indicted, indicted for the bombings in the embassies in Africa and that. I don't think any American felt bad about that.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

That many Americans feel this. I mean, once again, write down partisan lines.

[Joe Kernan]

It's no, but it is. But I've heard in court today and in court over the next year or.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Two, we'll see how it plays.

[Joe Kernan]

I imagine his lawyers are going to argue it's a pretext for some kind of control of a country.

[Jay Clayton]

And Andrew, this is, and then by.

[Joe Kernan]

The way, there's a big question about what happens.

[Jay Clayton]

This is a, this is the greatest country in the world because we get to have those arguments. I'm totally comfortable with this.

[Joe Kernan]

What do you make, by the way? To the extent that you could answer the extent there are critics out there that look at actually the.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Out there.

[Joe Kernan]

Out there.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Okay.

[Jay Clayton]

It's okay.

[Joe Kernan]

Have you read the newspapers?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

No, I know, I know, I know.

[Joe Kernan]

There's a big question about, see any.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Of the other side of it that's you don't have any of those questions pertinent about how excited people are there that they're crying that their entire family was murdered by this guy and now they're free. There's millions of people in the street.

[Joe Kernan]

There's going to be no questions. There's going to be no argument made in court about that issue. And here's the guy who's going to be prosecuting this guy. Right.

[Jay Clayton]

We respect the rule of law. We respect process. We absolutely respect people's rights. But I, people think I'm crazy. But you know, I rode the subway up here today. You know what I was thinking? I was thinking, you know, what if people feel safe on this subway, if they think there's nobody on this platform that's going to use a gun and a crime, if they think that there aren't drug traffickers here, you know, all the work that my office has been doing on the parks, on the housing projects, to get gun toting criminals, to get people who, you know, traffic in drugs to kids off the streets, that's what the American people want.

[Joe Kernan]

What does that say? But honestly, what would it say about Mexico, for example? That's, that would be, that's where most.

[Jay Clayton]

Of the, what I'm going to say is it's idiosyncratic. What do we know about Mexico? Without stating anything specific or what do we know about Mexico? We know that significant portions of that country are controlled by drug traffickers. That's what we know.

[Joe Kernan]

Okay. And therefore.

[Jay Clayton]

And those drug traffickers are bringing deadly fentanyl into the United States. From my office's perspective, we're going to build cases against people like that, hopefully get enough information, enough to indict them. And we want them brought to justice.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

In places where there is no discourse. China, Russia, other places they can control the entire hemisphere and not one person is going to say a thing about it. We are the leading country of the Western hemisphere. You can cart back to the Monroe Doctrine wherever you want to go. We are, it's important that we are able to flex our muscles to some extent here in the, in if we're wearing the white hat and if we're doing what I think is if, if, if it's not going to work for the American people, they can, they can elect different people in this year in November, impeach Trump and elect enough senators, get rid of and we won't even have to worry about.

[Jay Clayton]

Let me go back to something that I've said and the American people should understand. Drug trafficking, Fentanyl, cocaine, other similarly deadly drugs is a global, sophisticated business where the players have the resources and I would say the infrastructure equivalent to our, to our best run companies. We need to focus our resources on bankrupting those cartels.

[Joe Kernan]

Let me ask you a different question. Does it help or hurt your case in court for the President United States to talk about either taking over the country and, or the resources which, and the leverage that us either having control or something else has in, in the, in regard to your case?

[Jay Clayton]

Let me, and I'm, let me turn that around and say, can you imagine a situation where you have this type of circumstance. Let's, let's just put that where the President of the United States does not talk about the ramifications and the importance of what's going on in the world as a result? I think that the transparent and that's not my role, but that is the role of the President, United States, the Secretary of State, to talk about not just a legal action, but what that legal action means for the American people. And I think that's, that's not where I'm supposed to work.

[Joe Kernan]

Right.

[Jay Clayton]

It's not where I'm going to work. But I, you know, incredible to come out and be so transparent. Answer any question.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Are you convinced the Constitution gives the executive branch and President Trump the authority to act in this fashion?

[Jay Clayton]

I am, I am completely confident. I'm completely comfortable with that.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

This is all, this is all Just what is this? You're right. It's like law school.

[Jay Clayton]

I'm completely comfortable with what we're doing and I think we're. Look, I'm proud to be able to do this in America.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And we're not plundering the oil business. We're not doing it to. That's another left wing people who are.

[Jay Clayton]

Charged with crimes in America. And you'll notice I'm being very careful. Only the facts in the indictment. Am I talking about the people who are charged with crimes in America? They have the presumption of innocence.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

They have the ability to do exactly like Noriega. He exhausted the court system here and everything was upheld.

[Jay Clayton]

Joe, there's countless examples.

[Joe Kernan]

Okay, since we're here in New York and we have a new mayor that's taken off.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

He's last. He's livid about this.

[Joe Kernan]

He apparently called the President over the weekend, told him that he not only didn't support it, but thought it was illegal, apparently. And there's a second order issue which is I don't know if you saw this news about the police commissioner who's not going to be reporting directly to, to the mayor, which is unique. Apparently more recently in terms of how there's going to be a deputy in between them. Does that matter? How do you think about that?

[Jay Clayton]

Well, we, the federal law enforcement and you know, including FBI, Homeland Security, dea, our other law enforcement partners, much of what we do in New York, we can't do without the nypd and I expect to be able to continue to. We have been working incredibly constructively with the NYPD and I expect to be able to continue to do that.

[Joe Kernan]

Have you met with the mayor yet?

[Jay Clayton]

I have not met with the mayor.

[Joe Kernan]

Has he reached out to you?

[Jay Clayton]

We saw each other at an event, but we haven't. I haven't connect. He's pretty busy guy right now, I think.

[Joe Kernan]

Do you want to connect with him?

[Jay Clayton]

I. Andrew, you've known me a long time.

[Joe Kernan]

No, I'm just curious if this is such an important issue in terms of the long term relationship.

[Jay Clayton]

And there is no doubt in my mind that there is a lot of common ground in what we are trying to achieve. What the people of New York want and what the mayor's administration will want in terms of. Nobody wants somebody walking into a bodega and shooting someone else. No one wants their kids to have to walk across needles to get to this.

[Joe Kernan]

I don't disagree with you.

[Jay Clayton]

Let me tell you the greatest.

[Joe Kernan]

Let me tell you what I think could be a distinction and I don't know if this is true or not, but his approach or views about law enforcement in certain circumstances, including by the way, the legalization of prostitution, other things like that, which might not come under your purview, but nonetheless, you've talked a lot about using the federal laws in places like New York with the argument that the people of New York want to use those federal laws which are much stricter than the laws in.

[Jay Clayton]

Let me tell you what I know. The people of New York want career criminals who use guns in crimes. They want continuous custody when those people are arrested.

[Joe Kernan]

I would have thought that a long time ago, except that for some reason people. There are people in the state of New York who voted for something very different.

[Jay Clayton]

There are a minority of people who, I don't believe I give them credit. I don't believe that they understand the consequences, consequences of not having continuous custody for career gun toting.

[Joe Kernan]

You and I don't disagree. I think we're on the same page exactly on a personal level of what should happen to career criminals. What I'm asking, we have the tool.

[Jay Clayton]

We have the tools to do it and we're going to use them.

[Joe Kernan]

And my question is whether you believe that he is going to work in tandem with you or in certain circumstances could say, you know what, we think that the feds are overplaying their hand because we want to have our own sovereignty.

[Jay Clayton]

I do not expect anybody to throw sand in the gears of having career gun toting criminals off the streets.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You saw how many people left Venezuela in the last five years and you know where they all went?

[Joe Kernan]

Yeah, here, here.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So did he actually say send Maduro back, but we're going to keep Kilmar Abrego Garcia. Was that. Is he quoted? No. I mean, that's basically what we're talking about here. It's crazy. It's crazy. And we're gonna. How long is the term? Is it four years? Is that from there? And you can only do two? Unless you're Bloomberg. Is that how it works?

[Joe Kernan]

Two? Yes.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You can only do two. Unless you get around it somehow. It's gonna. Are you. I mean, you were so tactful at what you said. We both want the same things, but really they're. There could be a lot of exodus from New York City, could there not?

[Jay Clayton]

Well, there is an issue that we are seeing all over the country and I think this is something that we should focus on competence in government. We want the.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Do you think we're going to lose that with this administration?

[Jay Clayton]

Well, here's something that I have now found in my job that I did not expect. And you're seeing this play out in Minnesota. You see it play out in these other issues, which is do we have a sufficient audit trail? Now, I'm going to go back to something we all know here. Sarbanes, Oxley, Dodd, Frank put in place rigorous audit trails for companies. So if companies misbehave, we can actually find it pretty quickly. Like, you know, first thing I say to my guys, what do the auditors do? Bring me that stuff. Let's figure out what's going on in state and local government. The lack of audit trail. Maybe it's, maybe it's incompetence. But sometimes, you know, incompetence becomes, I don't know, something more. And what the American people should be demanding is accountability for the money that they deliver to state and local governments.

[Joe Kernan]

Jake Layton, I want to thank you for coming in this morning.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You were already booked.

[Jay Clayton]

I was already booked.

[Joe Kernan]

You were already booked. We'll be watching.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But you didn't cancel.

[Katie Kramer]

You didn't cancel.

[Joe Kernan]

Thank you and come on back as the case progresses.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Of course.

[Joe Kernan]

Thank you.

[Katie Kramer]

Coming up on Squawk Pod, what's next for cnbc, his own parent company, Versant. We are officially spun off from Comcast today and hitting the NASDAQ as an independent entity. Versant CEO Mark Lazarus maps out the future of the media business.

[Mark Lazarus]

I use golf as our model home because Golf Channel is a big, important brand and we used that to then launch other businesses like Golf. Now our tee time business like Golf Pass, our video subscription business where we're partners with Roy McIlroy and an underlying software business that connects us with more golf courses than we even create tee times for.

[Katie Kramer]

We'll be right back.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What made you confident that you could.

[Jay Clayton]

Do something that hadn't been done before?

[Katie Kramer]

I have no fear of failure.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Trailblazing women, changing the game.

[Jay Clayton]

One of my favorite pieces of advice.

[Katie Kramer]

Think about what your boss's boss needs. Leadership can look in many, many different forms. It really does come down to just trusting yourself. Life is short, and you just gotta think big to accomplish big things. Julia Boorstin hosts CNBC Changemakers and Power Players. New episodes every Tuesday. Wherever you get your podcasts, This is Squawk Pod. You're watching squawkbox right here, cnbc. I'm Becky Quick, along with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorkin.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

CNBC parent company Versant will start trading as an independent company on the NASDAQ today. And joining us now, Versant CEO Mark Lazarus, we're going through with this. We are going through. It's going to happen.

[Mark Lazarus]

Here we go. It's been a year in the making.

[Joe Kernan]

30. Welcome.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Thanks for, for being here and Happy New Year. Everything else I quoted you earlier, I'm going to quote you again. This is a big, profitable portfolio which has been historically managed with different priorities. Investing to build the brands of Versant was simply not a priority. That won't be the case anymore. I put that in a nutshell as the corporate mission of what you're doing.

[Mark Lazarus]

That is exactly right. And you know, as part of Comcast and nbcu, we had other priorities as a company and we, and I was part of the decision making. We made different decisions because we had a different company and a different strategy. And now bringing these into their own company, we're going to be able to invest into them. We'll invest organically and we're doing that. And I think you guys are seeing some of what we're doing and the strategy of these verticals. And I saw that you had rich on earlier and you know, I think he's listening to what we're saying. Hopefully the market is listening to what we're saying that, you know, vertical scale is going to be a way for us to differentiate and to diversify our business to be not so beholden to pay tv. While that's still a big profitable part for us, it's not going to be the end game.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So as part of a large company, there were times where there were parts of NBC that could have used investment and we, for lack of a better term, we provided some cash flow for other ventures that we could have used for ourself that we didn't did that. You can say that actually did happen.

[Mark Lazarus]

Well, it was part of this strategic imperative to do other things. We peacock very important for NBC investing in the theme parks. Very important for nbcu. But you know, listen, these are big profitable businesses. You guys generate a very nice profitable business. It's an important. The audience that we speak to and that hopefully we're speaking. We don't know how to amazing.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

If we have investment.

[Mark Lazarus]

Well, how we're going to act is we're going to. You're going to be able to look at where are the best ideas in this portfolio. Not in a much larger portfolio. But as importantly, everything we do is going to matter and every little piece is. There's going to be much more of a magnifying glass on what we do.

[Joe Kernan]

Well, let me speak to this. There is sort of like a conventional wisdom on the street that ultimately we're going to be either merged into some other business or we're going to try to buy a similar linear business. You've tried to dispel people of that. What are the kinds of things that you would want to buy, acquire or do?

[Mark Lazarus]

Let's start with the organic investments. We're going to expand what we're doing digitally in places where we maybe have done just had just tiptoed in and that's really cnbc. There's a much broader play with the retail investor that we can utilize the brand, the, the reputation of our brand, the, the credibility of CNBC and the talent that is here. On how we're going to achieve how we can help retail investors understand their portfolio with charts and graphs using maybe a stock recommendations. There's going to be a lot of opportunity in the organic investment for Ms. Now there's never been a digital footprint really other than a text based digital footprint, no video strategy. That was a decision that NBC News Group made. We're going to make a different decision and invest in a D2C product for Ms. Now for a very large audience that has a real passion around what Ms. Says to them and that will go down the line. We've made two small acquisitions. We're in the process of finalizing those already free TV networks to diversify our ad base away from pay TV into free over the air television. And a company called Indy Cinema which is a software business that will help power what we do globally with Fandango and the movie ticketing business. So investing in the verticals as opposed to just horizontally investing in more linear scale the thing and you guys are a big part of this. Our portfolio is 62% live news and sports. Rich, earlier you guys talked about the bundle and different types of bundles and cord shaving. Live news and sports is a big part of that. And we have a really strong position with CNBC, Ms. now USA Network with its large sports portfolio and Golf Channel to play in that live news and sports area. And that's an important part. To go horizontally and dilute that significantly may be a more difficult road for us. So we think vertical is the way to go.

[Katie Kramer]

So was Rich Greenfield wrong when he suggested that you might be interested in some piece of Warner Brothers discovery if they were to spit on spin off any of those pieces?

[Mark Lazarus]

If there were pieces of any portfolio that we could say fit into our desire to build around a linear service and grow them vertically and invest in a genre. He mentioned food. That's an interesting One but because it's a business that's much broader and it's a marketplace that's just broader than a media play. And that might be interesting, but that's not our priority right now. Our priority is four vertical markets that we are already in and that we have found some success. And specifically, you know, I use Golf as our model home because Golf Channel is a big important brand and we used that to then launch other businesses like Golf. Now our tea time business like Golf Pass, our video subscription business where we're partners with Rory McElroy and an underlying software business that connects us with more golf courses than we even create tee times for.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Is it fair to look at? I'm trying to decide on a comp. We do comps all the time for real estate wherever we are. If we look at what Netflix is saying that, you know, Warner Brothers is saying that stub is worth and you look at debt and you look at cash flow and you look at multiples and then you look at where Versant is, is it fair to compare those two and say that, that if they're worth $4 or $5 a share, Versant is undervalued given the relative.

[Mark Lazarus]

Well, I hope so. I mean, you know, the market, market, the marketplace is going to dictate. We really like our portfolio compared to some of the other portfolios out there. We like our balance sheet. We're being launched with a fortified balance sheet that's going to really allow us to do, to be aggressive and to be on our front foot, foot as opposed to on our back foot and being worried about paying down debt with $1. So we are very, we like our position and we think that we have a real opportunity. And listen, if we think we compare favorably to sort of the standalones that are out there to the pure plays and we think that our growth strategy will be a winner.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I mean you could, as a money manager, you could arbitrage it based on it's metrics where it is. If, if the other stub was trading versa, it'll be trading today. When that comes out, you could buy Versa and sell the Warner Brothers.

[Mark Lazarus]

We'll have to see what happens. It's an exciting day.

[Katie Kramer]

Good suggestion.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Probably a good way to end it. We'll have to see what happens. Godspeed.

[Mark Lazarus]

Thank you. Glad to be in this with the bell. See you there.

[Katie Kramer]

And that is Squawk Pod for today. Thanks for, for listening. On this Monday Squawk Box is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Tune in weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 Eastern to get the smartest takes and analysis from our TV show right into your ears. Follow Squawk Pod. Wherever you get your podcasts, we'll meet you right back here tomorrow.

[Becky Quick]

We are clear. Thanks guys.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What made you confident that you could.

[Jay Clayton]

Do something that hadn't been done before?

[Katie Kramer]

I have no fear of failure. Trailblazing women, changing the game One of.

[Jay Clayton]

My favorite pieces of advice?

[Katie Kramer]

Think about what your boss's boss needs. Leadership can look in many, many different forms. It really does come down to just trusting yourself.

[Jay Clayton]

Life is short and you just gotta.

[Katie Kramer]

Think big to accomplish big things. Julia Boorstin hosts CNBC Changemakers and Power Players. New episodes every Tuesday. Wherever you get your podcasts.