NYC’s “Tax the Rich” Debate & Privatizing TSA 3/30/26

Summary

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Squawk Pod Podcast Summary

Episode: NYC’s “Tax the Rich” Debate & Privatizing TSA
Date: March 30, 2026
Hosts & Contributors: Joe Kernen, Melissa Lee, Becky Quick, Cameron Costa, Robert Frank
Key Guests: Stephen Fulk (President & CEO, Partnership for NYC), John Pistoli (former TSA Administrator), Nat Carmack (BOS Security President)

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Episode Overview

This episode delivers a robust discussion centered on two major themes: New York City's controversial debate over taxing the rich—amid high-profile rallies and continuing wealth flight—and the push to privatize TSA operations at U.S. airports following government shutdown disruptions. The hosts and guests also touch on key news events, including global market turmoil due to Middle East tensions, the latest on Tiger Woods’ legal troubles, and a quirky KitKat heist.

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Key Segments & Insights

1. Markets and Middle East Escalation

Timestamps: [03:13] – [07:01]

• Context:
  Dan Murphy in Dubai reports on the fallout from the U.S.-Israel air campaign, Iran's retaliatory posture, and the Houthis' entrance into the conflict, impacting the Bab El Mandeb strait.
• Market Impact:
  • $12 trillion in global wealth erased
  • Brent crude up 50% in volatile trading
  • Global inflation threat as Houthis threaten trade choke points
• Quote:
  • “This is 12% of all global trade, 10% of seaborne oil. And if the Houthis block that waterway or threaten ships, then we could see a real impact on global trade.” – Dan Murphy [05:35]

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2. NYC’s “Tax the Rich” Debate

Timestamps: [13:24] – [23:50]

Setting the Scene

• Bernie Sanders held a major “Tax the Rich” rally in the Bronx over the weekend, energizing calls for an extra 2% city tax on high earners ([13:35]).
• New IRS data: New York lost $10B in income to out-migration; highest gainers were Florida ($21B) and Texas ($5.5B).

Sanders’ Core Message

• Quote:
  “The people of this city...do not want to see our kids go hungry...lack health care. They want the very rich to start paying their fair share of taxes.” – Bernie Sanders (quoted by Becky Quick) [13:57]
• Governor Hochul urged wealthy New Yorkers in Palm Beach to “see who you can bring back home” ([14:29]).

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Wealth Flight and Employer Response

• Robert Frank details ongoing exodus: major firms considering Texas and Florida.

• Apollo considering a second headquarters outside NYC due to higher taxes.

• Stephen Fulk, Partnership for NYC, sent a cautionary letter urging careful policy decisions amid NYC's “fragile environment.”

• Quote:
  “Less people here, less wealthy people here, less employers here leads to less revenue, larger affordability crisis.” – Stephen Fulk [20:18]

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The Revenue “Crisis” Dissected

• Despite “deficit” narrative, NYC revenues are actually ahead of projections.
• Fulk highlights runaway growth in the FEPS rental assistance entitlement, up 4% per month and “absolutely unsustainable” ([17:43]).
  • “No other city in the country has an entitlement program like that. So I think that's kind of at the core of the issue.” – Stephen Fulk [18:26]

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Debating Tax Burden & Fairness

• Disagreement over how the “rich” are taxed:
  • Top 1% pay over 40% of NYC tax; top 10% pay 80% ([21:44]).
  • Sanders uses metrics based on unrealized gains, which Robert Frank labels “completely fabricated” ([19:49]).
  • Discussion of marginal tax rates “pushing 60%” for high earners in NYC ([20:14]).
• “There's a tripwire somewhere and I think the far left fails to recognize that...” – Stephen Fulk [20:18]
• On progressive taxation:
  • “We have to say we have a progressive income tax system...the wealthy pay the highest rates.” – Robert Frank [22:11]
• Political dynamics:
  • “Ten years ago people would define themselves as fiscally conservative...polling shows that most of America is fiscally liberal because they feel the system isn’t working for them.” – Stephen Fulk [23:29]

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3. Privatizing the TSA: A Solution?

Timestamps: [26:02] – [32:12]

Backdrop: TSA Pay Debacle

• Shutdown leaves TSA agents unpaid for over a month ([26:02]).
• Agents expected to be paid shortly after an executive order, but mass resignations plagued the agency.

Privatization Discussion

• John Pistoli (ex-TSA Administrator):

  • Privatization is gaining interest amidst frustration with government instability and staffing shortages.
  • Frontline security could be privatized, while federal oversight and standards remain ([27:53]–[29:00]).
    • “There's a sense of unease about is this a good policy to go forward with TSA where we can't rely on them and that unpredictability is not good for business, not good for leisure travel...” – John Pistoli [30:37]

• Nat Carmack (BOS Security):

  • Process to privatize is easy but not quick—takes about a year ([29:13]).
  • “Private security is less expensive” due to required cost-benchmarking ([29:56]).
    • “Definitely a savings for the taxpayer and gives them more flexibility.” – Nat Carmack [29:56]

• National security concerns are mitigated by strict federal standards at privatized airports; data shows equivalent or better security ([30:37]–[32:06]).

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4. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the “wealth flight” from New York:
  “New York had a net loss of $10 billion in income from net out migration... Only California fared worse.” – Robert Frank [14:29]
• On policy and reality:
  “We should be careful with this budget.” – Stephen Fulk [16:02]
• On the unsustainable nature of current programs:
  “It's growing at an astronomical rate because more people need the program.” – Stephen Fulk [18:18]
• On privatized airport security:
  “The SPP airports are commensurate with, if not better in some instances than some of the TSA airports.” – John Pistoli [31:20]

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5. Quick News Hits

Timestamps: [07:01] – [10:35]

• Bank of America settles Epstein lawsuit for $70M (no admission of wrongdoing).
• Tiger Woods released on bail after a DUI-related car crash—hosts discuss his medical history and public perception ([08:00]).
• Quirky: 12 tons of KitKats stolen in Europe; hosts riff on “exceptional taste” of the thieves ([10:30]).

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Segment Timestamps (Quick Reference)

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------|---------------------| | Global Markets & Middle East | 03:13 – 07:01 | | NYC “Tax the Rich” Debate (Robert Frank + panel) | 13:24 – 23:50 | | TSA Privatization Discussion | 26:02 – 32:12 | | Quick News Hits (Epstein, Tiger, KitKat)| 07:01 – 10:35 |

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Tone & Style

The conversation was lively, informed, and occasionally irreverent—balancing incisive financial journalism with personality-driven repartee. Becky Quick, Melissa Lee, and Joe Kernan kept the interview style brisk and fact-focused, digging into policy implications while making room for wit and memorable asides.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode of Squawk Pod provides a nuanced look at the mounting tension between the political drive to tax the wealthy and the economic realities of business and population migration from New York. Policy complexities and practical consequences are laid bare. On the TSA front, the episode offers a clear-eyed exploration of the pros and cons of privatized airport security, augmenting national debate in the wake of federal funding instability.

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For listeners who missed the episode:
You'll come away with sharp insights into the very real impacts of tax policy debates in NYC, the challenges facing federal agencies from political gridlock, and the way large employers and individual earners are responding to shifting incentives—all set against a backdrop of global instability and a dash of news whimsy.

Transcript

[Joe Kernan]

Thy ticket, lady Jennifer of Coolidge.

[Melissa Lee]

Well, many thanks, good sir. Here is my Discover card. They accept Discover at Renaissance Fairs? Yeah, they do here. Discover is accepted at the places I love to shop. Get it with the times.

[Cameron Costa]

With the times.

[Robert Frank]

You're playing the loot.

[Melissa Lee]

Yeah, and it sounds pretty good, right?

[Robert Frank]

Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. Based on the February 2025 Nielsen report.

[Podcast Sponsor/Announcer]

The this episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions, and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] Market Update podcast or find Schwab Market Update. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Becky Quick]

Bring in show music, please.

[Cameron Costa]

This is Squawkpod and I'm CNBC producer Cameron Costa. On today's episode, TSA agents who've gone without pay for the past month could get paid as early as this week. But the entire debacle has sparked conversations about privatizing airport security. Former TSA administrator John Pistoli weighs in on that.

[Joe Kernan]

There's a sense of unease about is this a good policy to go forward?

[Cameron Costa]

Private airport security expert Nat Carmack explains the logistics.

[Nat Carmack]

Actually, it's less expensive.

[Cameron Costa]

And Bernie Sanders leading a tax the rich rally in the Bronx this weekend. CNBC's Robert Frank on the wealth flight from New York.

[Robert Frank]

Governor Hochul saying wealthy New Yorkers who want to help should start by going to Palm beach and, quote, see who you can bring back home.

[Cameron Costa]

And the president and CEO of the Partnership for nyc, Steven Follop, joins the fray.

[Stephen Fulk]

Less people here, less wealthy people here. Less employers here leads to less revenue, larger affordability crisis.

[Cameron Costa]

Those stories, plus the latest in the Middle East. Tiger woods is in hot water again. And a case of stolen KitKats.

[Melissa Lee]

You didn't even snicker about it.

[Cameron Costa]

It's March 30, 2026, and Squawkpod begins right now.

[Robert Frank]

Stand by in three, two, one.

[Advertisement Voice]

Fuel, please.

[Melissa Lee]

Good morning. Welcome to Squawkbox here on CNBC. We're live from the NASDAQ market site in Times Square. I'm Melissa Lee along with Joe Kernan. Becky and Andrew are off today. Let's take a check on you. Give me the side eye. Why? I just got here.

[Becky Quick]

That's a corgi move.

[Melissa Lee]

12 seconds into the show, you can be the.

[Becky Quick]

You know that when I come into makeup, you know, like I almost jump out of fear. No. Tell me no jump for joy. You do. You do. And you're happy to be here.

[Melissa Lee]

I'm happy. I'm always happy to be here.

[Becky Quick]

And you're happy to be here tomorrow?

[Melissa Lee]

Yes, I will be happy tomorrow. I'm happy about right now, this moment. I try and live in the moment

[Becky Quick]

and since the last time and we'll get the news quickly but since the last time you were on your duties are have just, I mean exploded closing

[Melissa Lee]

bell overtime with Mike Santoli.

[Becky Quick]

They needed you. They came to you and begged, didn't they? That's what I heard. President Trump telling Financial Times that he wants to take Iran's oil and could seize one of the country's key export hubs. We are. Do you, are you on truth Social? You don't have a true social. We do monitor and it's Monday and Dan Murphy's going to join us now with more from Dubai. It's so fast moving, Dan, over the weekend and so many different things and conjecture and you know, troops in the Marines, 82nd Airborne, talk of a possible move sometime to go after the thousand one thousand pounds of enriched uranium. What are you hearing, Dan?

[Dan Murphy]

Hey there Joe. Good morning to you. Well, hard to believe we're now five weeks into this war and what began as a US and Israeli air campaign on February 28th has now escalated into a multi front regional conflict. We've seen some $12 trillion in global wealth being wiped out, equity benchmarks in correction and of course Brent crude up more than 50% now in one of the most volatile months on record. Joe, as you mentioned, President Trump telling the Financial Times he wants to take Iran's oil and is now considering seizing Cog island which is the main export of transport hub for Iran. Meanwhile, the Washington Post also reporting the Pentagon is now preparing for what could be weeks of limited ground operations. And the Wall Street Journal also saying the US Is considering a mission to remove highly enriched uranium from Iran as well. However, the president did say that Iran had agreed to Most of the 15 point peace proposal but Tehran has not confirmed that. And in fact, Iran is actually digging in now with senior officials warning its forces are ready if those U.S. troops come. And then finally, perhaps most importantly, in terms of news flow over the weekend, the Houthis, which are an Iranian proxy group in Yemen, have now entered the conflict after firing missiles into Israel at the weekend and that is raising the risk of a blockade in the Bab El Mandeb. Analysts have called this Iran's second card to play if the Strait of Hormuz controls the exit from the Persian Gulf, then the Bab El Mandeb ultimately controls the entrance to the Red Sea and the Suez canal. This is 12% of all global trade, 10% of seaborne oil. And if the Houthis block that waterway or threaten ships, then we could see a real impact on global trade. We could see another spike in fuel costs. We could see insurance premiums going up. A translation for global inflation as well.

[Becky Quick]

The Houthis, at one point there were some. I don't know if I'd call it negotiations, but they agreed to something with the Trump administration to cease and desist at least.

[Melissa Lee]

But it's interesting, you know, in terms of the Houthis joining fight here, I guess, that not only that, that, but they have threatened to seize the Yanbu port. Saudi Arabia has been diverting oil through that pipeline to the Yambu port. And if the Houthis actually seize that port as well, that could spell even more disruption. So there are a lot of unknowns now that there's another player in this. What have you found on the interweb?

[Becky Quick]

There was a US Houthi cease fire that was announced in May of 2025. The Houthis agreed to stop attacking US ships. Trump said the US would stop bombing them in return. But it was not a broader promise to stop all attacks. But there was the dialogue and the. Just remember that we've made some progress.

[Melissa Lee]

Well, it's all out the window now.

[Becky Quick]

Done. That was then, this was now.

[Melissa Lee]

Yeah. And that oil Picture is now 115 on Brent. Bank of America agreeing to pay victims of late sex offender Jeffrey EPSTEIN More than $70 million to settle a class action lawsuit alleging the bank facilitated his sex trafficking operation. Bank of America did not admit wrongdoing. It is the fourth settlement from a major bank of legal claims by Epstein victims or government entity alleging the institutions effectively abetted Epstein's trafficking while he was a customer. The settlement must still be approved by a judge. In a statement, a Bank of America spokesman said, While we stand by our prior statements made in the filings in this case, including that bank of America did not facilitate sex trafficking crimes, this resolution allows us to put this matter behind us and provides further closure for the plaintiffs.

[Becky Quick]

And golfer Tiger woods was released. Does anyone really need to hear golfer? I put that in myself.

[Melissa Lee]

But Tiger, I thought you inserted that. You never know.

[Becky Quick]

No. Well, Tiger, you don't even need his last name. Was released on bail late Friday, hours after he was involved in a car crash and was Arrested on suspicion of driving under the influence. The crash happened early Friday afternoon near Tiger's home on Jupiter island in Florida. A local sheriff said woods had been traveling at high speeds on a residential road and showed, in his words, signs of impairment. He said woods breathalyzer test showed no signs of alcohol. Investigators believe the golfer took some sort of drug. Woods was not injured. It's the second time he's been arrested for DUI as a result of the influence of something. It says here alcohol. But, I mean, you don't know. We don't know. And pain medication can be addictive and it can be really bad. I think for pain. I've seen it happen. And we know about. First time Tiger was involved in a rollover. I forget how many fractures. I think they were compound in his leg. That was so painful.

[Melissa Lee]

It was a terrible one.

[Becky Quick]

So many, yeah. And then his back. Back. So there's no doubt in my mind he's on some type of pain medication. But he does drive fast. I've heard once you get where he's going, this is not good. Obviously, you don't want anyone to get hurt, but we wish him the best. And I know that road. Beach Road goes between parts of Palm Beach. Drive up this beautiful road. It's not a road where you think

[Stephen Fulk]

you'd speed, you'd have a rollover.

[Becky Quick]

It just isn't. There's mansions, there's, you know, just there. Sorry, I almost hit you with that. I'm dangerous. Swiss food giant Nestle says 12 tons of kit Kat chocolate bars went missing in Europe earlier this month after thieves stole a truck transporting the canyon. Waiting for the punchline here, I don't think there is one. Kit Kat said that the truck carrying more than 400,000 chocolate bars left central Italy, distributions throughout Europe, but never made it to its final destination in Poland. In a statement, KitKat said, While we appreciate the criminal's exceptional taste, I don't know how those criminals taste, but the fact remains that cargo theft is escalating. It's an escalating issue for businesses of all sizes. I had not. That was. I read that Cole had not heard anything about this.

[Melissa Lee]

Me neither. You didn't even snicker about it.

[Becky Quick]

That's not bad.

[Melissa Lee]

I was waiting for you to do it. Such a layup.

[Becky Quick]

It's not bad.

[Melissa Lee]

It's such a Joe Kernan joke. Dad joke.

[Becky Quick]

Do you remember Kitty Cat? I immediately thought of Roman Polanski. He goes like that to Jack in Chinatown with a knife and almost takes his. That's the best part unbelievable movie if you haven't seen it.

[Melissa Lee]

Okay,

[AT&T Business Announcer]

Tease will be next.

[Cameron Costa]

Coming up on Squawkpod, we're discussing the proposed tax hike package in New York, what it means for the city's employers and revenue, and the politics at play partnership for New York City President and CEO Stephen Fullop.

[Stephen Fulk]

You're gonna have a winner and loser between the state and the city government on who's able to enact tax or who's unable to hold the line.

[L]

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[Podcast Sponsor/Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] MarketUpdatePodcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcast.

[AT&T Business Announcer]

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[Dan Murphy]

AT&T business Wireless Connecting changes everything.

[Cameron Costa]

Welcome back to Squawk Pod from cnbc.

[Becky Quick]

Here's Joe Kernan, Senator Bernie Sanders speaking at a Tax the Rich rally in New York over the weekend. Robert Frank joins us now with more.

[Robert Frank]

Hey Robert, Joe, good to see you. Well, New Yorkers waited hours yesterday to see Senator Bernie Sanders, who came to town to host that tax the rich rally in the Bronx. He said recent polls show majority of New Yorkers support higher taxes on the wealthy. And he urged Governor Hochul to impose an extra 2% tax on city taxpayers who make more than a million dollars a year.

[Becky Quick]

I would ask Governor Hochul, listen to where the people are. The people of this city, the people of this state, the people of this country do not want to see our kids go hungry, do not want to see people sleep out on the street, lack health care. They want the very rich to start paying their fair share of taxes

[Robert Frank]

at the same time. On Friday, new data from the IRS release shows that continued wealth flight from New York and other tax and other high tax states to lower tax states continues. New York had a net loss of $10 billion in income from net out migration between 2022 and 2023. That's the latest year available. Only California fared worse, losing $12 billion in adjusted gross income. Now the big gainers, not surprising. Florida with a net gain of $21 billion and Texas with a net gain of $5.5 billion. Palm Beach county saw $3 billion in added income. That was by far the largest in Florida. Now Governor Hochul saying wealthy New Yorkers who want to help should start by going to Palm beach and quote, see who you can bring back home. So again, you have Bernie Sanders in this rising tide in Albany saying tax the wealthy. And by the way, we had Apollo saying this morning they're going to continue a second, consider a second headquarters in Texas and Florida. There is a special tax on financial firms in Albany right now that would dramatically increase what financial firms like Apollo are paying. So it's no accident that we're seeing that news this morning.

[Becky Quick]

Okay, Robert, stay there. Would you mind?

[Stephen Fulk]

I'll stop.

[Becky Quick]

Oh, okay. I think it's, don't you think it's nicer to joining us now? Hi, Steven. Stephen Fulk. How's it going? Is the president and CEO of Partnership for New York City. You wrote a letter. Everything I read was like, who doesn't know these things? They don't seem to know these things, do they? What did you say in the letter?

[Stephen Fulk]

Well, look, we're trying to make sure that Governor Hochul has support and she recognizes that there's other voices out there, that not only the loudest voice is the most relevant voice in the fact that Bernie Sanders is doing these rallies. So we had 40 large organizations employing millions of people say, hey, it's a fragile environment today and we should be Careful with this budget.

[Becky Quick]

It's not like when the United States decides to do the federal government because people probably won't leave. It's so easy to leave a city and the weather's so nice in other places. And there's country music in some places. And there's. I mean, there are options for people. And if you're talking tens of millions of dollars, not just for the principles, but for just across the board people that work there, why stay? Why stay?

[Stephen Fulk]

Look, I think that you could see what he said earlier with regards to Apollo. You know, two months ago, Apollo was actually looking to stay and expand here in New York, to pivot, largely because I think a lot of firms are under attack that previously thought that the environment might be a little bit safer here. But it's tough times right now.

[Robert Frank]

Stephen, maybe you can explain something. You know, there's this idea that New York city has a $5 billion deficit, so therefore, you know, we need to tax the wealthy so that the middle class doesn't get hurt. Revenues are running $3 billion ahead of projections, according to the comptroller. And then you had these higher than expected bonus payouts last year, which added $200 million to New York City, to New York State tax rolls, about $90 million to New York City tax rolls. Why do we suddenly have a revenue problem?

[Stephen Fulk]

So I think there are some programs in New York that haven't been addressed that are at the core of the problem. So, for example, we have a rental assistance program called feps. That's an entitlement program that doesn't exist anywhere else in the country. It's growing 4% per month. It's absolutely unsustainable. Per month? Per month. So, you know, is that because they

[Robert Frank]

didn't index it for something or, you

[Stephen Fulk]

know, look, it was implemented during the Cuomo administration, and the politics obviously speak to that, making it very, very difficult to reverse that because of where the politics are. But I think any reasonable person would say that the time is right to change that.

[Melissa Lee]

4% per month. I mean, that's staggering.

[Stephen Fulk]

Per month. Per month. It's a multi billion dollar program. Well, it's growing at an astronomical rate because more people need the program.

[Melissa Lee]

Sure.

[Stephen Fulk]

And no other city in the country has an entitlement program like that. So I think that's kind of at the core of the issue that we're talking about here.

[Robert Frank]

You're trying to get Hochul to listen to the other voices. And now the chorus is getting louder on the other side. How do you think this is going to play out. I remember Andrew Cuomo saying, no, we're not going to do it. The legislature, the, the New York City mayor putting pressure on him the last minute he said, okay, we're going to. How do you think this plays out?

[Stephen Fulk]

You saw the mayor didn't attend the rallies over the weekend largely because he didn't want to antagonize Governor Hochul. But it is framing up as he's pushing for some sort of tax increase just to say to his base that he has a tax increase. So you know you're going to have a winner and loser between the state and the city government on who's able to enact tax or who's unable to hold the line.

[Becky Quick]

Do you think that Senator Sanders knows or cares about the true state of how progressive our tax system is at this point? And okay, billionaires, they borrow against their stock.

[Stephen Fulk]

There are no.

[Robert Frank]

But here's the problem. He mentioned tax rates for billionaires. He said Jeff Bezos pays 1.1% and you in the middle class pay 8 or 10%. They're using a tax rate based on the unrealized gain in Amazon stock for that particular year as the base. But that's completely fabricated.

[Becky Quick]

It's fabricated. But I can understand that in the politically charged environment we're in that maybe there should be some way to get some way. I'm not sure how. Whether you tax. If they take a loan out against the stock, you. There are Ackman's come up with, with a proposal on how to do that. But in general, the marginal rate for someone not even that wealthy is almost 60%.

[Stephen Fulk]

Yeah, isn't it in New York you're pushing 60%. So there is a.

[Becky Quick]

Is that not fair?

[Stephen Fulk]

I mean, I think you raise a good point. There's a tripwire somewhere and I think the far left fails to recognize that less people here, less wealthy people here, less employers here leads to less revenue, larger affordability crisis. And I think that disconnect is largely because of politics. And that's the kind of thing that we've got to push back on a little bit. It's complicated.

[Melissa Lee]

Do you think that this Apollo 2nd headquarters story, I mean, do you think that it's really going to end up being the primary headquarters? I mean, is that what you see because of where things are going?

[Stephen Fulk]

They said they polled their employees and that is where their growth is going to happen. And I would highlight that in the last two months you've had American Express say they're going to establish a new building here and bank of America. Resign the lease. Those are both good signs. And maintaining a presence here, which everybody expects. But if you look at the mayor's press releases regarding both of those announcements, none of them acknowledged the fact that he is grateful for that corporate community to still be here. It spoke about labor and the building trades. And I think people interpret that language to be adverse to business as it is. And that's the reason why you will see some sort of gradual exodus over time.

[Robert Frank]

We've already seen JP Morgan has more employees in Texas, New York, despite that huge headquarters.

[Stephen Fulk]

That trend is going to continue.

[Melissa Lee]

Right.

[Becky Quick]

You can tell them the 60% or you can give them the tables that you always put out. What's the top 10% pay at this point?

[Robert Frank]

Well, the top 1% pays over 40% of the tax.

[Becky Quick]

Top 1%, 40%. Top 10%. 80%. Yeah.

[Robert Frank]

Top 10 federally and state. State. It's even more. It's even higher.

[Becky Quick]

And what Romney. What'd our buddy Romney say about the 47%?

[Robert Frank]

Well, yeah, and there were some years right after Covid where it was over 50% of Americans that didn't pay a tax. And what Bernie Sanders.

[Becky Quick]

Not an income tax, but people pay.

[Robert Frank]

Not federal income tax.

[Becky Quick]

That's right, exactly. They pay sales taxes. And it's regressive.

[Robert Frank]

No, it's hard to imagine. We have to say this, but we have to say we have a progressive income tax system. We where on the whole, the wealthy pay the highest rates actually from the irs.

[Becky Quick]

What if you said that to Bernie Sanders? What does he say when someone. It's hard of hearing or no one ever says that to him.

[Robert Frank]

They have their own way of calculating income.

[Stephen Fulk]

Yeah, I think he would say that the wealthiest people are doing just fine. And he would say you probably need some equality across the board is probably what he would say. And he would dare people to leave. That's what he would say.

[Robert Frank]

And at this time when most Americans are under a lot of pressure from inflation, affordability and, and you do have stock markets doing okay and the wealth gains of the very top doing. You know, you just look at Elon Musk and you hold that Elon Musk holds as much wealth, Bernie said, as 53 as the bottom 53% of Americans. That's a startling figure. And that gets people really worked up. Those figures are true.

[Becky Quick]

I know, but we went and said if maybe you look to try to unlock some of the capital gains from this. Yeah, you know, okay, that, that I agree. How about just the notion that money is treated better in the private sector and that the more that you eventually it comes around. If you connect the dots, a lot of these programs end up hurting the people.

[Stephen Fulk]

Yeah, I think 10 years ago people would define themselves as fiscally conservative. Right. And I think today polling shows that most of America is fiscally liberal because they feel that the system isn't working for them. So they're willing to try a socialist mayor tariffs. They're willing to support things that historically they weren't willing to support.

[Becky Quick]

We can try it again. Maybe this time it'll work. It's different this time. Thank you.

[Stephen Fulk]

Thank you.

[Cameron Costa]

Next on Squawk Pod the lines are moving again at airports, but a recent funding fight over TSA pay has some asking whether private companies should be doing the job. Instead, we talked to two experts on what comes next. Former TSA administrator John Pistoli, most airport

[Joe Kernan]

operators, many I should say some I know personally, are looking at the possibility of seeking TSA approval to privatize the frontline workforce.

[Cameron Costa]

And Nat Carmack, BOS Security President.

[Nat Carmack]

The process is easy, but it's not quick.

[Cameron Costa]

We'll be right back.

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[Becky Quick]

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of the Visibility Gap presented by Cigna Healthcare.

[Becky Quick]

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[Cameron Costa]

This is Squawk Pod.

[Becky Quick]

You're watching SquawkBox on CNBC. I'm Joe Kernan along with Melissa Lee. Becky and Andrew are off today. Airport TSA agents who've gone without wages could get paid early this week. And here is White House border czar Tom Homan. There is a plan to get these TS agents pay, hopefully by tomorrow, Tuesday. So, yeah, it's good news because these TSA officers are struggling. They can't feed their families or pay the rent. Your heart goes out to them because they're sitting there right now working very hard and not being paid while members of Congress now are on vacation getting paid. It's ridiculous. The agents have gone without pay since the partial government shutdown began last month. On Friday, President Trump signed an executive action to pay the TSA workers after a potential deal to end the shutdown fell apart in Congress. See Mike Johnson. Love Mike Johnson. He was animated. It's not clear how soon travelers could see improvements in security lines at airports. Homan said it depends on how many agents return to work after they get paid. As of the weekend, some of America's busiest airports were still telling travelers to arrive hours early to make their way through security lines. The postal shutdown is now the longest in American history.

[Melissa Lee]

Some airports have turned to private security. Only 20 US airports use it, including major hubs like San Francisco International and Kansas City International. Joining us now, John Pistoli, former TSA administrator Nat Carmack, BOS security President, Great to have you both with us. John, I'll start off with you. I mean, in terms of how this has played out, this is obviously a very long shutdown. There's no blueprint for how things worked out in the past. But what's your anticipation in terms of now? TSA workers are getting paid and services will return to what percentage of normal?

[Joe Kernan]

Good, good morning and good, good questions. I think we are going to be looking at a new normal that may very possibly involve more privatized security operations at airports. We are, I think it's a, possibly a strategic inflection point, if you will, because of the frustration over Congress not funding TSA resulting in these resignations. Over 500, almost 550 TSA officers have resigned since this shutdown began. And then there's also, of course, the number of people who've called out sick, 3500 over the weekend each day resulting in these long lines. And so I think most airport operators, many, I should say some I know personally, are looking at the possibility of seeking TSA approval to privatize the frontline workforce now, the managers, supervisors, executives and all the equipment and all those protocols and policies and procedures, those are still under TSA direction and control. But the frontline workforce might be privatized like you say in San Francisco or Kansas City.

[Melissa Lee]

NAT I bet you're getting a lot of calls these days from other airport operators who don't employ private security. What do you tell them in terms of the process and what you have seen? I mean, even at large international airports like sfo.

[Nat Carmack]

So yes, we are starting to get some more discussion and more, more airport managers that are exploring their options. I guess you'd say the process is, is easy, but it's not quick. Once the local airport managers and their boards or authorities make that decision that they're ready to go with a private partnership, then they just fill out a very simple application, submit that to their federal security director and then that starts the process from there and TSA takes it from there and releases the the RFP to the private contractors and within about a year or so we can be on the ground and private with them.

[Melissa Lee]

How much more expensive is it, NAT?

[Nat Carmack]

Actually it's less expensive. At the beginning of that process, TSA does an evaluation of what it would cost the federal government to run that airport themselves and then that's our cap. When we submit our proposal, we have to at or below that number or our bid is not even considered. So definitely a savings for the taxpayer and gives them more flexibility at the same time.

[Melissa Lee]

JOHN it seems like a win win, but what are some of the, you know, cautions? What are some of the concerns regarding contracting this out to another party? You used to work with the FBI. I imagine there might be some national security concerns considering this is the front line at the airport.

[Joe Kernan]

Well, that's right. And so when I was administrator there were about 25 SPP airports around the 435, let's say in the country. And that's gone down, as you mentioned, down to around 20. But I think that's more a factor of what makes sense when things are, quote, normal in Washington, which when was the last time that happened and they're not now. So there's a sense of unease about is this a good policy to go forward with TSA where we can't rely on them and that unpredictability is not good for business, not good for leisure travel and things like that. From a security standpoint, the SPP airports also have to meet all the security standards. So there's COVID testing done at the SPP airports just like there are at the TSA frontline workforce work checkpoints and they consistently the SPP airports consistently come in at about the same range of of course there's a range with each airport. So the security concerns are important. But I think, at least in my experience, I've seen that the SPP airports are commensurate with, if not better in some instances than some of the TSA airports. So it is a that dynamic tension of it's got to be outstanding security to act as a deterrent to a putative terrorist and yet make sure that people are being moved through the checkpoint in an effective and efficient way.

[Melissa Lee]

Right? I'm sure this is a conversation will continue in the days and weeks to come. Thank you both John and Nat.

[Nat Carmack]

Thank you.

[Cameron Costa]

That's Squawk Pod for today. Thank you for listening and starting your week with us. Squawkbox is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky quick and Andrew Rossworkin weekday mornings on CNBC from 6am Eastern all the way until 9. And of course, to get the best parts of that three hour TV show right into your ears, please follow Squawk Pod wherever you're listening now. We'll meet you right back here tomorrow. Have a great day.

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We are clear.

[Robert Frank]

Thanks guys.

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