Ron Baron on Elon Musk’s Trillion-Dollar Pay Plan 11/14/25

Summary

Squawk Pod: Ron Baron on Elon Musk’s Trillion-Dollar Pay Plan

Date: November 14, 2025
Host(s): Joe Kernen, Becky Quick, Andrew Ross Sorkin
Guest: Ron Baron, Chairman & CEO, Baron Capital

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Episode Overview

This episode of Squawk Pod centers on legendary investor Ron Baron’s unwavering faith in Elon Musk and his companies, especially in light of Musk’s proposed, eye-popping $1 trillion pay package. The conversation delves deeply into Baron’s investment philosophy, how he views Musk’s impact on Tesla and SpaceX, and why he remains heavily concentrated in these holdings. The hosts also cover breaking business news—including Walmart CEO Doug McMillan’s retirement and the Under Armour/Steph Curry split—and explore market themes such as affordability, inflation, and the disparate performance between tech giants and the rest of the market.

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Main Discussion Points & Timestamps

1. Market Volatility & Economic Overview

[02:08–07:38]

• Becky Quick summarizes recent stock market pullbacks: Dow, S&P, and NASDAQ are close to all-time highs, but tech stocks face notable angst.
• Discussion of “affordability” as the new economic buzzword, citing inflation’s lingering impact and its effect on real wages.
• The removal of tariffs on certain Latin American imports is expected to help reduce consumer food prices (e.g., bananas, coffee).
• Brief commentary on how affordability and wage pressures have factored into recent elections and consumer sentiment.
• Quote [04:17]:
  Joe Kernen: “Affordability is the new buzzword.”

2. Major Business News: Retail & Media

[07:39–09:46]

• Breaking: Warner Bros. Discovery facing possible sale, with Paramount, Comcast, and Netflix among potential bidders.
• Under Armour and Steph Curry end their long-standing partnership; Curry now controls his brand outright and Under Armour prepares for an expensive restructuring.
• Discussion about product marketing, star power in retail brands, and how companies adapt during internal transitions.

3. Ron Baron Interview: Investment Philosophy & Market Insights

a. Investment Track Record & Approach

[11:47–14:39]

• Ron Baron reflects on Baron Capital’s growth from $100 million to $45 billion in assets, with $52 billion in profits created for clients since 1992.
• Emphasis on long-term investing and focus on innovative companies, especially in technology and AI.
• Highlights that returns have heavily favored tech giants—removing top stocks turns market returns negative for smaller and mid-sized stocks.
• Quote [12:37]:
  Ron Baron: “We managed $45 billion. We made $52 billion in profits. And I started off in debt and now I’m not in debt anymore.”

b. Views on Inflation, Bonds, and Gold

[14:13–16:55]

• Baron asserts belief in the doubling of the stock market and economy every 10 to 12 years.
• Warns that the real value of money halves every 15 years due to inflation—making bonds unattractive compared to equities.
• Tells a personal anecdote about buying physical gold for security post-9/11 (“GTF money”) and skepticism about gold ETFs’ utility in crisis.

c. Tesla, SpaceX & Musk’s Pay Plan: The Anchor Segment

[16:55–26:33]

• Ron Baron reports $8 billion in gains from Tesla and $4 billion from SpaceX, expecting to 5x those totals over the next decade.
• Endorses Elon Musk’s $1 trillion pay plan, validating Musk’s unique role as an “artist” visionary akin to a modern-day Da Vinci, not just an industrialist.
• Baron maintains more than 65% of his personal investments in Musk’s companies, citing high conviction and willingness to take concentrated risk—personally pledges to be “the last person out” of Tesla/SpaceX.
  • Quote [18:10]:
    Ron Baron: “Personally, it’s about 40% in Tesla and about 25% in SpaceX and the balance 35% in our mutual funds.”
  • Quote [21:05]:
    Ron Baron: “I will not sell a single share of my company, of my shares, until my clients have sold 100% of their shares. And I don’t expect to sell in my lifetime—Tesla or SpaceX, either one.”
• Views Musk’s ambition as legacy-driven rather than wealth-driven; Musk’s pay only materializes if Tesla rapidly increases in value.
  • Quote [22:45]:
    Andrew Ross Sorkin: “So you think he’s playing for legacy?”
    Ron Baron: “Yes, definitely. What else could you do?”
• Tesla’s future: Baron is bullish on the Optimus robot project, projecting production of a million units next year and aiming for 1 billion units annually at $20k each, anticipating a leap to “sustainable abundance.”
  • Quote [23:57]:
    Ron Baron: “Whole biggest thing ever. And so next year is going to be a million of those units. And, and he thinks 10 million after that… He thinks it’s a billion a year that he’s going to be able to make in these robots. Think about that—a billion a year, $20,000.”
• Discussion of FSD (Full Self Driving): Baron praises the technology’s progress; he believes regulatory acceptance will follow when society realizes its safety benefits.
  • Quote [27:08]:
    Ron Baron: “When everyone realizes how much safer it is to drive and all you do is get in your car and tell you where one—where you want to go and it’s safe, it’s all about safety, then regulators will approve it.”

d. Conference, Company Culture & Other Holdings

[27:28–32:23]

• Baron Capital’s annual conference theme: “Changing Lives”—double meaning for improving both client and employee futures.
• Baron emphasizes democratizing wealth-building within his firm; even receptionists have stakes in SpaceX.
• Notable holdings discussed: Shopify (infrastructure for business growth); Gartner (advisory for big companies on tech spending); “On” sneakers (how consumer brands adjust amid competition)—shares stories of market volatility and the outsized impact on smaller stocks.

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4. Further Breaking News: Walmart CEO Steps Down

[33:43–37:50]

• Walmart CEO Doug McMillan retires at 59 after over a decade; credited with quadrupling Walmart’s market cap and leading the company’s digital transformation.
• Discusses legacy, succession (John Furner named new CEO), and how internal promotions sustain company culture.
• Reflections on McMillan’s philosophy, “thinking like an innovator,” and the impact on Wall Street sentiment when making tough decisions for long-term gains.

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Notable Quotes

• On Long-Term Investing:
  Ron Baron [14:39]: “The value for money falls and falls 4 or 5% a year, that’s inflation. And the economic growth has been about 2% a year. So it’s about 7% a year growth. And that means everything doubles in 10 years.”
• On Elon Musk’s Motivation:
  Ron Baron [22:44]: “Why is he working these crazy hours? Why is he risking his health?...He wants to think about how people will remember him someday, what he’s created, how he’s helped humanity survive.”
• On Risk and Concentration:
  Ron Baron [19:13]: “It’s obviously riskier if you put a large percentage of your money in one entity… I do not expect to sell in my lifetime—Tesla or SpaceX, either one.”

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Memorable Moments

• Baron’s pledge not to sell:
  “I told the board, if you let me invest in this...I will promise that I won’t sell any of my stock… I will be the last person out of the stock.” (21:05)
• Tesla’s future:
  “I think about 2,500 [dollars] of where [Tesla] stock’s going to be in 10 years, and I think it’s going to be four times that.” (23:05)

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Additional Highlights

• The episode’s tone is conversational and candid, true to the Squawk Box style—mixing banter with institutional insight.
• The panel continually circles back to themes of long-term thinking (vs. market timing or pessimism), the impact of innovation, and the human stories behind corporate headlines.

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Segment Timestamps for Key Insights

• [12:37] – Ron Baron on Baron Capital’s growth and client profits
• [14:39] – Baron’s macroeconomic view: stocks, bonds, and inflation
• [17:15] – Tesla and SpaceX returns, portfolio concentration
• [18:10] – Ron Baron’s personal exposures to Musk’s enterprises
• [21:05] – Baron’s “last to sell” promise and rationale
• [22:44] – Musk’s personal motivation
• [23:57] – Tesla’s robotics/AI ambitions and business model evolution
• [27:28] – Baron’s “changing lives” investment philosophy
• [33:43] – Walmart CEO Doug McMillan retirement news and commentary

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Summary

This episode provides a focused window into how a veteran investor like Ron Baron thinks—his faith in Elon Musk and multi-decade patience with high-conviction bets; the discipline of not selling core holdings; and his belief that both technology and ambitious leadership drive societal progress and outsized returns. Listeners also receive timely business news and broader reflections on how innovation and volatility are reshaping markets and legendary companies alike.

Transcript

[Keith Lansford]

This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] MarketUpdatePodcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ron Baron]

Our nation has always counted on us.

[Joe Kernan]

To win, to fight for what better.

[Ron Baron]

Could be, to secure our future together.

[Joe Kernan]

We are Marines.

[Ron Baron]

We were made for this.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Bring in show music please.

[Zack Felice]

Today on Squawk Pod, legendary investor Ron Baron. He's still long on Tesla.

[Ron Baron]

I don't expect to sell in my lifetime Tesla or SpaceX either one.

[Zack Felice]

He's already made about $8 billion on the stock. This Tesla bull is also supporting CEO Elon Musk's nearly $1 trillion pay package.

[Ron Baron]

I don't think anyone believes who works at Tesla that he's not going to make five or six or seven times in 10 years and four or five times again after that.

[Zack Felice]

Plus breaking news from the country's biggest brick and mortar retailer. Walmart CEO Doug McMillan is retiring after a decade plus run.

[Joe Kernan]

What's the story behind the story? He's only 59.

[Becky Quick]

He's only 59. I am told that this was his choice that he wants to step down at this point.

[Zack Felice]

And the latest news that has us squawking. Everybody wants to buy Warner Bros. Discovery, Steph Curry and Under Armour's split and and reducing tariffs to help affordability.

[Joe Kernan]

Affordability is the new buzzword.

[Zack Felice]

I'm CNBC producer Zack felice. It's Friday November 14th, 2025. Squawk Pod begins right now.

[Ron Baron]

Stand Becky by in three, two one cubicle.

[Becky Quick]

Good morning everybody. Welcome to Squawk Box right here on cnbc. We are live from the NASDAQ market site in Times Square. I'm Becky Quick along with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Yesterday's pullbacks for stocks if you want look at that. The Dow was down by 798 points so not quite 800 but yes 1.65%. The S&P was down by 1.7% and the NASDAQ was down by 2.3%. So again you are starting to see a little bit concern. Dow is only 1.65% from the all time high. The NASDAQ has had some losses over.

[Joe Kernan]

The definitely start like that anything it always starts with something. But I don't know if there's any concern yet considering it's from an all time high. Yes, but not a bad idea.

[Becky Quick]

But it is something when you see.

[Joe Kernan]

And it didn't happen in October catches you. Yeah, it didn't happen in October.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It had delayed reaction.

[Joe Kernan]

Well, 800 is. We got to reset what 800 means because it's 48,000.

[Becky Quick]

It's a much. It's a much different scenario. If you're looking at the Nasdaq for the week to date, it's off by 2 1/2% from its all time high. It's down by 3.7.

[Joe Kernan]

It is. A lot of it is tech angst.

[Becky Quick]

And that's where you saw some of the really big moves. 7, 8.

[Joe Kernan]

You did stocks like this is more concerning, I think.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, but I was going to say the angst is going to be what is Nvidia's earnings. That's the whole story. That's the whole thing.

[Joe Kernan]

And risk off is manifest in crypto and which is not. I saw 96.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

In time. The US announcing it's going to be removing tariffs on some foods and other imports from Argentina, Ecuador, Guatemala and El Salvador. Now that framework agreement will give US companies greater access to those markets. And officials telling reporters the deals could be finalized in the next two weeks. Those moves expected to help lower prices for coffee, bananas. I love bananas and other foods.

[Becky Quick]

I mean these are things that get at affordability and things that Americans buy every day. If you had talked to any of the big retailers, they've been pointing to bananas this whole time because it is a major purchase for any grocery store company that's out there and you can't make them here. That's always been the point. Things like coffee and bananas, you can't home grow those things. And it shows up in the baskets of things that people eat and consume every day.

[Joe Kernan]

Affordability is the new buzzword. Yesterday one of our guests used. Did you notice that? Choiceful.

[Becky Quick]

Choiceful. Yes, I did.

[Joe Kernan]

Did notice it.

[Becky Quick]

I did.

[Joe Kernan]

The new word, that word affordability. I've already, you know, I do things.

[Ron Baron]

What do you do?

[Joe Kernan]

I prepare for that. We're going to have, you know, a couple of people on to talk about affordability. So how do, how would I prepare for that? Tell you how I'd prepare. I would look at. Because I don't trust AI at all. I would look at all three that I use and ask did real wages fall from the day Biden took office to the day he left? Did real wages, Real average weekly wages.

[Becky Quick]

Real, average weekly wages, you know what.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The answer is, I assume you're going to say no.

[Becky Quick]

I was.

[Joe Kernan]

Why would I bring it up if I was going to say no? Why would I bring this up if I was going to say no?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Continue. Tell us exactly the numbers.

[Joe Kernan]

No, I don't need to tell you. But they fell. It's a small amount, but people, real wages, that takes. Real wages, takes inflation into account. So by the end of the term it started rising towards the end. But the reason people feel like they're not ahead at this point is because we went through a four year period where every average weekly wages declined and you can't change it. You know, I figured I'd get two out of three from AI because it's, they're so. It's so lame. But three out of three.

[Becky Quick]

And look, the issue with affordability, we're not looking at inflation that's anywhere near where it was in the Biden administration. But it hasn't come down below 3%.

[Joe Kernan]

Well, it did, it's. But now it's back.

[Becky Quick]

Now it's back. Now it's back above on an annualized basis above 3%. And when you see things like higher prices at the grocery stores, concern about rent.

[Joe Kernan]

Well, all those.

[Becky Quick]

And by the way, if the Fed doesn't cut rates, that means you're not necessarily going to get help for mortgage rates. Not that the Fed controls mortgage rates because it's looking at the short end, not the long.

[Joe Kernan]

The highest inflation that we saw in 40 years didn't reverse itself. It stayed there and went up another 3%.

[Becky Quick]

Right. So it's. Those are tough issues to swallow.

[Joe Kernan]

Yes.

[Becky Quick]

Affordability played big in the elections. That just played out particularly.

[Joe Kernan]

It's a big city. People are choiceful in the words they use. Now to the latest on the potential sale of Warner Brothers Discovery. The Journal is reporting that the initial deadline for non binding first round bids is November 20th. And everybody's looking, everybody's thinking about it, everybody's kicking the tires. Report says Paramount, Comcast and Netflix all preparing bids at the same time. Warner Discovery is proceeding with plans to separate its assets into two companies. And we should note Comcast is in the. What? I heard nothing about this. Comcast is in the process of spinning off this network into Versant here we come. You guys could have mentioned that at some.

[Becky Quick]

Versant, here we come.

[Joe Kernan]

Well, it's been, we've been planning this.

[Becky Quick]

For a while, for a year.

[Joe Kernan]

Do we know the drop dead date? I think it's like, I think it's sometime in January.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I think it's likely to happen in January? Is that what you're asking?

[Joe Kernan]

I think it's happening in January. I think there's an actual date. I have a hat. It's a cool hat. It's got a neat logo on it.

[Becky Quick]

For victory or for Versant?

[Joe Kernan]

Both, because it's going to be victorious, I think.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Meantime, Under Armour and Steph Curry have mutually agreed to now end their 13 year partnership, effective immediately. As part of that split, Curry will maintain sole ownership of what's called the Curry brand and is free now to find another retail partner. Under Armour will release its final Curry brand shoe in February. Now, in a statement, CEO Kevin Plank said the following. He said, this moment is about discipline and focus on the core UA brand. Of course, Under Armour brand during a critical stage of our turnaround. The split with Curry was announced alongside an expansion of the company's restructuring plan, which is now expected to cost $225 million. That's $95 million more than had been previously expected. And for whatever reason that Steph Curry's shoe under Under Armour never worked. I mean, never really worked. Here you had one of the great shooters, one of the great players of all time. And unlike whatever Nike's been able to do, even what some of these other brands are able to do, they were never able to do it.

[Becky Quick]

And he left. He didn't sign with Nike. He went to UA instead of going to Nike because they kind of insulted him when they walked in, got his name wrong when they were pitching him to do some of these things along the way. I think this is the 13th version of the shoe they're making under red.

[Joe Kernan]

He's a great player.

[Becky Quick]

He's unbelievable. And he seems like a really nice player.

[Joe Kernan]

He's a great player and he's a great golfer, but he's a great player and he can do everything. But I think he could do most of his damage in bare feet. The way that, because he shoots, you know, you don't need. You're not driving and he does all that.

[Becky Quick]

But yeah, he can do it.

[Joe Kernan]

He could easily do it. Yeah. Just throwing it in from anywhere. You don't need. You don't need. I mean, you do need to jump. It's a jump shot. So I understand. But he doesn't remind me of like.

[Becky Quick]

Luke Jordan or flying through the air.

[Joe Kernan]

And just driving the lane, you know, and just faking guy. He does all those stuff. He does. But yeah, I was just.

[Becky Quick]

But he doesn't.

[Joe Kernan]

It wasn't a negative. I'm just saying his is what he's going to have to get close from outside. Yeah.

[Zack Felice]

Tease will be next. Next on Squawk Pod, legendary investor Ron Baron breaks down his thoughts on the market AI and how he's still holding on to his Tesla stock after all these years.

[Ron Baron]

And gains made about $8 billion in Tesla from $400 million we started and in SpaceX we we've made about $4 billion since we started that in 2017. So about 12 or 13 billion we've made so far. I think we're going to make five times that next 10 years.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The heaviest metal credit card of all time, rumored to be one of only 18 in existence, plated with the very same tungsten that forged the international space station and wielded at business dinners like a samurai sword. It's a classic corporate power move, but the real power move, having end to end visibility on your most critical shipments. FedEx, the new power move.

[Keith Lansford]

This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] MarketUpdatePodcast or find Schwab Market Update. Wherever you get your podcasts. CNBC Sport on the Record, your front.

[Ron Baron]

Row seat to sports and business.

[Keith Lansford]

From commissioners and owners to media executives.

[Ron Baron]

And top athletes, these are Rembrandts. I'm telling you, these franchises on the record, all new Saturdays, three Eastern.

[Zack Felice]

Welcome back. This is Squawk Pod up and Andrew.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Hugh on this Friday morning, you're watching Squawk Box right here on cnbc. I'm Andrew Sorkin along with Joe Kernan and Becky Quick.

[Becky Quick]

Let's get right to Ron Baron. He is the chairman and CEO of Barron Capital, which has $45 billion in assets under management. Ron is joining us ahead of the 32nd annual Barron investment Conference. And Ron, it is great to see see you this morning.

[Ron Baron]

To see you too.

[Becky Quick]

So 32 years. We've been doing this for a long time, not 32 years on squawk Box talking to you on the morning of your annual investment, but a long time.

[Ron Baron]

Amazing.

[Becky Quick]

And we're going to jump into the investment. But I want to ask you because there are a lot of people who look at a couple of days of declines in the markets. You're not one of them, but there are a lot of people who will look at that and say, oh, is there A bubble here. And I know that is not one of your core investment things. In fact, you look at the opposite. You never look at bubbles or headlines or any of the rest. But what do you do at a time like this when there are so many people asking about questions about valuations and the potential for bubbles?

[Ron Baron]

Not very much. But when you're talking about the 45. Can I just go back for a moment? When you spoke about $45 billion of a whim, I'm impressed with that since we started with 100 million. And then secondly, but even more impressive is we made our clients since 1992. We started with 100 million, 52 billion in profits. So we managed 45 billion. We made 52 billion in profits. And I started off in debt and now I'm not, not now I'm not in debt anymore. So what do we do? Not very much. Just looking, trying to understand where there's opportunities and there are opportunities to try to take advantage of them. And over the past, it's really interesting, last month the whole market has been really focused on technology and AI. And if it wasn't technology or AI, stocks haven't done very well. In fact, if you take the top stocks out of the market, they represent 38% of the market and 11% return that, when you take that out, those big stocks out, the return for everything else is negative. And the month of November, October, we were down in our smaller and midsize companies a third, something like that. And if you look at the returns, the funds that we have invest in technology and fast growing businesses, they've done very well this year. The stocks, the companies that, the funds that invest in companies that are smaller and mid sized, they've done poorly. They've, you know, relatively flat year. It's pretty amazing. That's what's happened.

[Becky Quick]

But I do, I was thinking of you earlier this week when The Dow crossed 4,48,000 for the first time because you are somebody who has basically said, never bought a bond. You're not going to make money if your money is either in a bank sitting there trying to earn investment or in a bond that it won't keep pace with inflation. So you have always said that the market is the place to be. And when you think of big numbers, you've always said, yeah, that's going to happen. Those big increases will come with stocks.

[Ron Baron]

Yes, I think about the stock market and the economy basically doubling every 10 or 12 years. And that's what's happened for my entire lifetime. Everything doubles every 10 or 12 years. So what, what has to happen is the value for money falls and falls 4 or 5% a year. That's inflation. Falls 4 or 5% a year. And the economic growth has been about 2% a year. So it's about 7% a year growth. And that means everything doubles in 10 years. The value of your money falls in half every 15 years. So you've got to make twice what you're making today in 15 years to stay even. And so stock market. So bitcoin's been amazing, obviously. And gold. I have a few gold coins that I've been buying. Mostly I bought in 2006 because I was outside of New York at that time. And 9, 11 happened. And so I tell my wife I want to buy some gold coins in case something really bad happens. We can escape, we can buy a car, we can buy a boat. I want to buy. And so she ignores me. And then I go to stacks on 57th Street. I start buying these coins. And then one day in the summer of 2006, 2007, it was $400 an ounce. She sees me walking in. What is that? I said, gold coins. She said, it doesn't look like gold. Let me see it. And so I show it to her and she says, what are you doing with this? This heavy. What are you doing with this? I said, we have. This will get us out of New York if there's a nuclear attack or something. And she says, are you crazy? She says, and what are you going to do that for? You going to buy water and someone's going to give you change? So she said, don't you dare bring another one of these in my house. So it's $400 an ounce.

[Becky Quick]

Now it's 4100 less.

[Joe Kernan]

Try doing to get out of the country. Try. Look, here's my ETF. My gold ETFs. Yeah. Might be better to have actual gold coins.

[Ron Baron]

Well, one of my friends daughters had a very high position in government and she still does now. And this is what she calls the GTF money.

[Becky Quick]

I think I can do the, the, the calculations on what that stands for.

[Ron Baron]

Right. She's our police commissioner.

[Joe Kernan]

Right?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah.

[Becky Quick]

Get out of here, basically, is what it means. Ron, let's talk a little bit about Tesla, because you have been an investor with Barren funds since 2014. So more than a decade that you've been standing by Elon Musk, it's been a very good bet for your firm. You've made how many billion dollars on Elon Musk since then?

[Ron Baron]

Made about $8 billion in Tesla from $400 million when we started. And in Space X, we've made about $4 billion. And since we started that in 2017, so about 12 or 13 billion we made so far. I think we can make five times that next 10 years.

[Becky Quick]

You came out strongly in favor of his new pay package that could pay him $1 billion over time if they meet certain metrics. It was not a surprise to me because you've talked to us on the show for a long time about how you feel about him and how he is the key man and how none of these companies would be anywhere near where they are without him. Your conviction, why you believe in that and, and then your concentration in his stocks. At this point, I was shocked. In your personal portfolio, I think 65% of your personal investments are tied to Elon Musk through either Space X or Tesla or X40.

[Ron Baron]

Personally, it's about 40% in Tesla and about 25% in Space X and the balance 35% in our mutual funds. And in Space X, I think we're going to make 10 times over the next 10 years. Test, I think we're going to make five times. And my mutual funds, I think we make three times. And you know, so, so it's obviously riskier if you put a large percentage of your money in one entity. For our mutual funds, it's about 22% invested in SpaceX and Tesla, 11% apiece. And then Xi, that's an investment that's smaller right now, but we've only invested, I guess, $350 million. Next AI it's now worth $700 million. That was two or three years ago. And the next pricing is going to be probably double where it is now. It means about a trillion and a half. That's going to be in our top 10 in the next time they price.

[Becky Quick]

I was thinking back to several years ago when you actually sold some Tesla. You did it at the time only because the stock had increased so much in value to the point where it made you a little uncomfortable with how big of a position it was in the funds. It wasn't a commentary on you losing faith, faith in Elon Musk or in the stock. But at the time, time you said, look, I can't as a fund manager have that big of a position in it. What has changed? Because I think you have a much bigger position today.

[Ron Baron]

Well, I didn't feel uncomfortable, but my clients felt uncomfortable. And I was being criticized for having such a large investment in one company. And we had bought stock at 10 or $15 a share, 12. And it was trading at 220. And we sold for our clients about 25% of their investment. I wanted to make sure that they knew that the reason they held the stock was because I thought it was still interesting as opposed to that I had died. And so I didn't want to think I died. And that's the only reason still owned it. So we sold a quarter of the stock, and then the stock hadn't done anything for three or four years. And then when President Trump was elected, the stock in the first part of this year went up dramatically, went up to 400, and we sold 5% more. So we sold 30% for clients. I did not sell personally a single share. And what I committed to the board of our mutual funds is that I was the last purchaser. I haven't really invested in stocks since 1992 in public companies. And I told the board, if you let me invest in this. When I tried to get everyone else to invest, nobody else wanted to at Barron Capital. So I said, if you let me invest a certain amount of money, then what I will do is I will promise that I won't sell any of my stock. And I told you I wouldn't invest, but let me break my promise and let me invest, and then I will be the last person out of the stock. So I will not sell a single share of my company, of my shares, until my clients have sold 100% of their shares. And I don't expect to sell in my lifetime Tesla or SpaceX, either one.

[Becky Quick]

Wow. That is a huge commitment and a huge amount of faith that you have in Elon Musk and his companies.

[Ron Baron]

These are really unusual. You know, when you think about what he's doing, you talk about the pay package and, you know, this is not like Rockefeller or like Carnegie, like Mellon or like Morgan, when Ford, the great industrialists who built this, this nation. This guy is like da Vinci and an artist. And, you know, he knows, he remembers everything. It's incredible. And the opportunities that he's trying to take advantage of for his clients and for himself. So we say, so why is he doing this? Why, when you're worth that much money, why do you do this? You don't think about that. Why is he doing this? Why is he working these crazy hours? Why is he risking his health? And to me, you know, what is. What's the difference between $400 billion net worth and $1 trillion? Or what's the difference? It's not saving up for A beach house. And so the way I think about it is that he wants to think about how people will remember him someday, what he's created, how he's helped humanity survive.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So you think he's playing for legacy?

[Ron Baron]

Yes, definitely. What else could you do? And then he thinks that the business, right now, he doesn't really get paid unless the company goes up in value from here six times.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Do you think it will?

[Ron Baron]

Yes, you do?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I think in this, even Robin Denholm wasn't so sure.

[Ron Baron]

When you're the head of a public company other than Elon Musk, you have to be guarded about what you say about your business prospects. And you can say one thing in public, and I don't think anyone believes who works at Tesla, that he's not going to make five or six or seven times in 10 years and four or five times again after that. I think that, you know, I'm thinking about 2500 of where his stock's going to be, Tesla's cracks going to be in 10 years, and I think it's going to be four times that.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Is that a function of automobiles? Is that a function of robots? What is that in your mind? What is the driver of that?

[Ron Baron]

Have you watched his annual meeting?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I have.

[Ron Baron]

Did you see what he was talking about for Optimus?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, Optimus is, I think for him the next sort of leg of this.

[Ron Baron]

Whole biggest thing ever. And so next year is going to be a million of those units. And, and he thinks 10 million after that. Building a production line right now for a million and 10 million, it's 100 million. He thinks it's a billion a year that he's going to be able to make in these robots. Think about that. A billion a year, $20,000. Robots that are going to be, you know, labor saving, make everyone think this is a sustainable abundance that he talks about. Sustainable energy is what he had before. Now it's sustainable, sustainable abundance. He thinks everyone is going to have much better lives, much more prosperous life, and then, you know, maybe there'll be a beach in Mars somewhere, I don't know.

[Becky Quick]

You said the reason you sold before was not that you had lost confidence, but you were getting criticized by your investors and media. And media. But are you. Has that criticism gone away now?

[Ron Baron]

I haven't heard very much, but lately, because There are these seven stocks that are 38% of the market now. So I've heard, I haven't really heard a lot of criticism. Every now and then people express concern, but I don't think that's really been a big issue now. It was then, because it happened pretty quickly. Stock went up and down, up and down, up and down. And then it went. And right now you're in the same kind of stage for Tesla with this fsd driving with the car. Drive. Have you been in one of those cars? Yeah, I've been in the cars that drive by itself.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah.

[Ron Baron]

They have it on automatic driving. Have you tried it yet, Joe?

[Joe Kernan]

No, I haven't. I'm going to.

[Becky Quick]

Not my car, but I've been in the car, sure.

[Ron Baron]

Yeah, I'm going to buy one.

[Joe Kernan]

I am. For the family.

[Ron Baron]

You're going to love it.

[Becky Quick]

You've been telling me for years too about how it can park itself, pick you up at the front of the house.

[Ron Baron]

Well, it's really interesting. One of my friends came over, we went in New York a couple of weeks ago and he put in that he wanted to get to a restaurant. Punched it in. Cars going through traffic, stops at lights, stops at pedestrians. And the next iteration is going to be within the next, I guess, few months and it's going to be 10 times as good as this one. And the multiple he talks about when is that.

[Joe Kernan]

When that.

[Ron Baron]

Well, anyone who buys a car now.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Is going to have that the technology is in there. He's. He's suggesting that he's going to get to a point where you're going to be allowed to text and drive. He's going to say you can text and drive at the same time and.

[Ron Baron]

Go to sleep in your car.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, the question is so, but the other question, but this is a huge one, is he has those ambitions. Do regulators have the same ambitions that he does?

[Ron Baron]

Well, if things are safer than they are as presently with people driving on their own, yes. Regulators want to save lives. There's a lot of people that die in choir.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I get that. I'm just saying. Do you think that. So there's two issues. There's going to be. There's going to be the federal government, which actually I think probably will look mostly fondly upon this. And then there are going to be state governments and city governments are going to be a lot more complicated.

[Ron Baron]

I think when everyone realizes how much safer it is to drive and all you do is get in your car and tell you where one. Where you want to go and it's safe, it's all about safety, then people, regulators will, Will approve it. I don't think that's going to be a problem.

[Becky Quick]

Ron. Let's talk about a few of the other stocks and by the way. Do you want to mention any of people who are coming to the conference today? Today, many of the speakers, the people are coming.

[Ron Baron]

Well, our theme of our conference today is Changing Lives and it's double meaning. And changing lives means that the people who have invested with us, our goal is to change their lives. We're giving them more financial security than they've had before. And the idea behind it is that, you know, most people don't know that much about stocks and they sort of of a forced to invest and, and, but, but you know, and most people who do what I do, they have a different objective than mine. And their objective is to make as much money as they can as fast as they can and, and stop doing it and they can go sit on a beach somewhere. That's their objective. My objective has been to change people's lives for our clients and also for the people who work at Baron Capital by giving this financial security. So everyone who works at Brand Capital, if you're a receptionist or if you're assistant trader or if you're an analyst, of course, but you're going to become wealthy from the way we've set things up. So everyone there has an interest in like SpaceX for example. They all have an interest in SpaceX, which I think is really cool. The companies are coming today are companies like Shopify, which is the backbone for businesses that instead of having to invest in infrastructure themselves, they rent Shopify. So that's, that's, that's a good one. Gartner technology. This is so cool. So, so this is sort of an example of the things that happen in the markets that Gartner, we've been investor in for, I don't know, 10, 15 years, made a lot of money. This year they reported earnings that were disappointing to people. Stock fell in half. And what they, because people view them as someone who's going to be hurt by AI as opposed to use AI to help them. And what they do is they consult with big businesses to tell them what to do. So for example, they go to JP Morgan and say you're buying all this new technology every year, billions of dollars you spend. And what we can do is, is you know, to help you decide what is the best technology, the person selling it to you is going to tell you mine isn't as good as that one. So what they do is they say, okay, you know, this is the best because we have the most analysts. And, and they say if you pay me $1 million, then I will save you $10 million a year if you give me $1 million of a fee, I will save you $10 million. That's the Gardner model. And so, so there. So JP Morgan says, well, you know what? I think that what we should do here is why that's a really good idea. But why don't I say, I'm not going to pay any fee at all and I'll give you 25% of my savings if you don't charge me a fee. So Gartner says, okay, I'll do that. You see if you like it. And so they do that for six months. And JP Morgan goes back and says, you know, let's go back to the, you know, today. One billion. One million to save 10 million. So that's one. Gartner is another one. See, what else do we have here?

[Becky Quick]

We're about out of time, but let's pick one more, let's say on sneakers. Sneakers, much more competitive space.

[Ron Baron]

So what Nike has done is that they have over the past few years, I said that what we want to do is we want to make ourselves more profitable. So they keep taking cost out of the product at the expense of quality. And what on does is. And then also we want to have direct distribution.

[Becky Quick]

That stock's down 22% year for the one year.

[Ron Baron]

Nike or no on holding, in the last month, it went from 60 to 40. I have all these companies that have fallen by a third in one month.

[Becky Quick]

What happened? What, what's, what's, what's up with the market mentality that causes that?

[Ron Baron]

When I was young, I would hang out at this brokerage firm. I worked in the patent office at daytime, and I would sneak away and I would go to this broker's office and the person I would sit with, the traders, and they said that what would happen is that they had all these generals. General Electric, General Motors, I don't remember all the generals, but they said the generals is when they're doing fine. And all of a sudden, if the troops fall away and not doing so fine, that's a bad sign for the generals. So the leading stocks keep going and the troops fall away. The generals are in risk. And that's the same thing that's just happened where the great companies keep, you know, doing better. And all of a sudden, and the companies that aren't great, everyone takes the money out of them to buy the generals again. And then what happens is that all of a sudden it's a. It's too far.

[Becky Quick]

Let me ask you. We've got to run. We've got to close it up here. But is that a presage of what's to come? Do you think there could be a big market drop that comes as a result?

[Ron Baron]

Oh, I don't know, but that's sort of what happened yesterday.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah. Ron, thank you for joining us this morning. We're looking forward to the conference and we appreciate you being here. Ahead of that.

[Ron Baron]

Thank you. Thank you for inviting me, Ron.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Good luck. We'll be right back.

[Keith Lansford]

This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] MarketUpdatePodcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

CNBC's Changemakers 2026 list, spotlighting women who innovate, lead boldly, and are transforming business. Do you know someone who is rewriting the future? Nominate them [e-mail] changemakers.

[Zack Felice]

Welcome back. You're listening to Squawk Pod.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We got some breaking news we got to get to.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah. All right. Let's take a look at shares of Wal Mart. Right now they are off by three and a quarter percent because the company is just announcing that Doug McMillan, the chairman and CEO, is going to be retiring. He's stepping down from the company where he has been in charge for more than 12 years. During that time, Doug McMillan has more than quadrupled Walmart's market cap. He's also set the company up for continued growth. He's been seen as somebody who is not only a stalwart leader but also a visionary leader for a retailer in particular. I don't know if you remember, Doug McMillan at one point did an interview with us and he took out of his pocket a list of all the retailers, the top 10 retailers, over every decade, and talked about how they changed all the time. And that lived pretty large in his mind. As a result, he did some really innovative things when it came to adding a lot of digital capacity, changing things in the stores. He, you know, raised the salaries for people and refurbished the stores at a time when it was not popular on Wall Street. There was a big revolt when he first announced that, and it was the Walton family that stood by him during that time and said this is the way to go. He did things like add an advertising unit to the company, which nobody ever thought about. That advertising unit that also worked as digital online sales. I mean he's done so many different.

[Joe Kernan]

Well, what's the story behind the story? He's only 59.

[Becky Quick]

He's only 59. I am told that this was his choice, that he wants to step down. At this point I believe it because I can't imagine anybody wanting to chase him out of there. And as a result, again, that stock is off by 3.5%.

[Joe Kernan]

Now here's the successor.

[Becky Quick]

Here's the successor. John Furner, who is 51 years old. He's actually been there starting as an hourly associate. He's been with the company for over 30 years. He's going to be the incoming CEO for the entire company. John Furner is somebody who sounds an awful lot like the person that Doug McMillan was when he took over all those years ago. Doug McMillan started as an intern at Walmart and built and was like, was actually driving chucks and supplying things, you know, like unloading boxes at Walmart when he first started out and stayed with them there his entire career. Ferner is somebody who started as an hourly associate. It's been there for over 30 years. He's been in a variety of leadership roles across all three of their operating segments. And the company is saying he understands every dimension of the business from the sales floor to the global strategy.

[Joe Kernan]

He's a Razorback University of Arkansas, so he's local.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah, but this is a shocker. Doug McMillan because he's so young to be stepping down, not even yet 60. But he also has kept up a pretty incredible pace over that period of time. Again, if you look at a 10 year chart, that stock is up by 426%. And Doug has been a pretty steady hand and an innovative guy.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Ran the business roundtable for a period of time, has been involved in all sorts of big policy questions in America. I mean even, far beyond just even his role at Wal Mart. I think he's considered sort of one of the, sort of the great stalwarts of both retail but even more broadly American business.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Think about what he was doing during the pandemic.

[Joe Kernan]

It's unusual but not unheard of. I can think of like Steve Burke, that's like the only guy where you go out fun. It's good to go out on top sometimes. Iger tried it and then bowled him back in like G3.

[Becky Quick]

We'll continue to watch this. The stock's off by about 3%. Walmart is saying that what they want to do is give a very long Runway to John Furner just like Doug McMillan had all that time ago. So bringing in someone who is young, who has still been there for more than 30 years but have a long time to be there.

[Joe Kernan]

John's leaving, too. I don't know. Is he? He might just be 60, right?

[Becky Quick]

In that age range, Right?

[Joe Kernan]

Yeah. Procter and Gamble. So there's Procter and Gamble and Walmart.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Wow.

[Becky Quick]

Big stalwarts of the Dow.

[Joe Kernan]

Yeah.

[Becky Quick]

All right. That's, that's what we know. For now. We'll continue to watch it.

[Joe Kernan]

Yep.

[Zack Felice]

That's the pod for today. And for the week, it's Friday. We made it. Squawkbox is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin on TV. Watch weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 Eastern or to get the best takes of our show right into your ears. Follow Squawk Pod wherever you get your podcasts. We'll meet you back here on Monday. Have a great weekend.

[Ron Baron]

We are clear.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Thanks, guys. CNBC's Changemakers 2026 list, spotlighting women who innovate, lead boldly, and are transforming business. Do you know someone who is rewriting the future? Nominate them now at cnbc.com changemakers.