← Squawk Pod
Squawk Pod
Sports Boom: Betting with Gary Gensler & Fandom with George Pyne 6/11/26
00:37:57
The Knicks pulled off an historic comeback in Game 4 of the NBA Finals, and it isn’t the only sport riding the wave of renewed fan enthusiasm. Bruin Capital CEO George Pyne explains why sports viewership is booming, for the NBA as well as the NHL, MLB, and Golf. Former CFTC Chairman Gary Gensler led the agency when Congress passed the Dodd-Frank Act. Today, he argues that Congress did not intend to set the CFTC up as sole regulator of sports betting. Plus, President Trump issues a warning to Iran, and CNBC's Leslie Picker breaks down what investors should know ahead of the highly anticipated SpaceX IPO. Dan Murphy - 03:03 Leslie Picker - 10:49 Gary Gensler - 17:16 George Pyne - 34:03 In this episode: Dan Murphy, @dan_murphy Leslie Picker, @LesliePicker Joe Kernen, @JoeSquawk Kelly Evans, @KellyCNBC Cameron Costa, @CameronCostaNY
Loading summary
Transcript222 lines
- [00:00]
Leslie Picker
Your data lives everywhere on prem in the cloud across apps. Bring it all together with Everpure, the platform that acts like a living system, delivering the latest in data performance, security and innovation without ever slowing you down. Sophisticated enough to anticipate your ever changing data needs, yet simple enough to feel like second nature. Tame your data chaos with Everpure and make storage and data management the simplest part of your business. Visit everpuredata.com to learn more.
- [00:28]
Progressive Commercial Announcer
For a small business owner, every day is full of surprises. Some great, some not so great. Like when a client cancels their order at the last minute. But here's a surprise you will like. Progressive provides small business owners with 30 customizable coverage options to help keep their business going strong. So go ahead, surprise yourself. Get a quote in as little as 8 minutes@progressivecommercial.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates and third party insurers. Coverage is not available in all states or for all vehicles and coverage selections.
- [00:58]
Cameron Costa
Bring in show music please.
- [01:02]
Joe Kernan
This is Squawkpod and I'm CNBC producer Cameron Costa. On today's episode, the New York Knicks scored the biggest comeback in NBA playoff finals history last night, riding the sports wave with Bruin Capital CEO George Pine.
- [01:19]
Cameron Costa
But it's not just the NBA, you know, the NHL's experiencing a great finals, great regular season. Baseball off to a strong start. Golf, sports is surging.
- [01:29]
Joe Kernan
And Gary Gensler served as chairman of the CFTC under President Obama. And now he's pushing back on the CFTC assumed role in prediction markets.
- [01:40]
Gary Gensler
What they're trying to do is to one, say that they have authority over sports betting, which I don't think they do. That will play out all the way to the Supreme Court, of course. And two, they're trying to reverse a rule we voted unanimously.
- [01:54]
Joe Kernan
Plus President Trump's bellicose warning to Iran and the space X IPO is tomorrow. Leslie Picker has a report for all those hoping to nab shares.
- [02:04]
Leslie Picker
The tell from those of you who have put in orders out there is if you do find that your full allocation request has been filled, that's usually a negative sign.
- [02:14]
Joe Kernan
It's Thursday, June 11th and Squawk Pod begins right now.
- [02:19]
Gary Gensler
Standby, Joe.
- [02:19]
Cameron Costa
And three. One, two, one.
- [02:22]
Gary Gensler
His mic here.
- [02:25]
Kelly Evans
Oh, me. Usually Becky would do this. Do you want to do it?
- [02:29]
George Pyne
Listen, I don't call the shots. I just follow.
- [02:32]
Kelly Evans
What you just set the alarm and
- [02:34]
George Pyne
show up, which I appreciate, which is hard enough.
- [02:35]
Kelly Evans
Thank you for being here, Kelly. And you left the brood at home.
- [02:39]
George Pyne
Yes. Chaos in the back.
- [02:42]
Kelly Evans
You brought him in. Good morning. Welcome to Squawk Box here on cnbc. Live from the NASDAQ market site and Times Square. I'm Joe Kernan along with Kelly Evans. Becky and Andrew are off today. You got a lot of interviews. Got a lot of interviews.
- [02:54]
George Pyne
It's going to be.
- [02:55]
Kelly Evans
So you were up late and then
- [02:58]
George Pyne
up early and it wasn't even up late to watch the Knicks.
- [03:01]
Kelly Evans
Well, let's get to the latest flare up of fighting in the Middle East. The US And Iran striking each other for a second straight day. It's weird. Dan Murphy, CNBC's man, is live in Abu Dhabi. But most of the headlines are that, yeah, there's a renewed exchange of, of aggression, but not likely to return to full scale war. Why do we think that and are
- [03:28]
Dan Murphy
we sure it's a good question? Joe, good morning to you. Good morning, Kelly. Overnight we saw the US Carrying out a fresh round of strikes against Iran. And I wanted to show you this new video that's been released by US Central Command as well. It shows the the USS Michael Murphy firing Tomahawk cruise missiles as part of this operation. CENTCOM saying these strikes targeted Iranian surveillance, communications and air defense sites that rendered basically that threatened US Forces and commercial shipping. Explosions also being reported at several sites across Iran. Iranian state media reporting explosions in the south of the country from the port city of Bander Abbas to Kesham island and all along the Iranian side of the Strait of Hormuz as well. Now, Iran responded pretty quickly to this. It declared the Strait of Hormuz closed to all shipping. It also warned that vessels entering the waterway could be targeted. President Trump, of course, already rejecting that claim, saying Tehran does not control the Strait of Hormuz. Tehran also claimed to have struck US Linked targets and bases in Jordan, Kuwait and Bahrain overnight. But those claims haven't been independently verified. And Bahrain also says its air defenses actually intercepted the attacks. We showed them just before that. These images have just been released by Bahrain's Interior Ministry. What you saw here was a burnt out car. There's damage to homes and streets in Hamad City and Manamar. Authorities there saying the damage was caused by falling shrapnel from intercepted Iranian drones. This the cleanup there of course, continuing. What's also interesting is that notably the uae, Saudi Arabia and Qatar do not appear to have been drawn into this latest round of Iranian retaliation, which is also significant. This latest escalation also coming up to President Trump accused Iran of delaying negotiations, saying, we're really close to a deal, but they keep tapping us along. They Keep playing us for suckers. And he said so the frustration in Washington had been building for some time. The White House obviously seeking a more long term cease fire, the reopening of Hormuz and a path back to nuclear talks. But for now, it seems as if there's very little evidence that Tehran is prepared to make those concessions. It's back over to you.
- [05:51]
Kelly Evans
A lot of things to consider, Dan. I, no American casualties yet. I don't know what happens if we lose, you know, if some of our guys or gals are, lose their life because Trump has said that that is a red line. That would be, that would be serious. And no power or infrastructure or bridges or, or any of the things that were threatened. So it is sort of a moderate response when a lot of people, I don't know whether the Wall Street Journal is the op ed, whether those guys are all neocons. And they might. And I'm not saying that's a, I'm not saying that's a pejorative neocons because maybe there's times when you need more force than what we're doing right now. But they're saying he needs a new strategy, the President does, and that these half measures have emboldened Iran and they're taking advantage of the U.S. s weakness during this cease fire. This doesn't, this seems like another half measure or quarter measure at this point. Do you expect it to ramp up? The Washington Post, Stan says that the cease fire, their headline was this puts the truce in jeopardy. So they're not even calling it the end of the truce. Truce on Iran, in Iran is on the brink. This doesn't seem like we're in the middle of a cease fire. We're firing at each other.
- [07:08]
Dan Murphy
Right. And Iran's Foreign Ministry also responded to that as well. They actually said this morning the latest strikes have rendered the ceasefire meaningless. So what that means ultimately for the resumption of this conflict I think is a big question mark at this point. For its part, the Americans CentCom have said that its latest round of strikes are over. We'll have to see what the President's appetite is to escalate from this point on.
- [07:37]
Kelly Evans
President Trump's going to pressure defense industry leaders in coming days to quickly ramp up weapons production. That's according to NBC News, which says that the leaders of seven companies are going to meet at the White House. The war in Iran has increased concern about low stockpiles for some weapons. The report says that despite President Trump saying earlier this year the US Has a virtually unlimited Supply of weapons. The president has expressed anger to aides about thinning stockpiles.
- [08:05]
George Pyne
But we have heard this from him before. This is not, I mean this, this latest round might be new, but this has been going on for a while. It's been an overhang on defense. Think about how mad he is about the buybacks and all the different things, the executive compensation. They've pushed people to ramp up production as it is. That's one reason why there's been an overhang some extent on some of the major shares. You know, it's both a blessing and a curse to be, you know, important partners in this build out.
- [08:29]
Kelly Evans
Think about how much we've used. I mean, between Ukraine and Israel and what we've done in Iran. And you know, these things are pretty sophisticated except those stupid drones which, you know, we use a missile that takes a couple years to build just, and cost ten times as much as the drone. We've got to figure out a way.
- [08:48]
George Pyne
But those, now we're doing that too. I mean, now they're throwing money at that problem as well. All of those stocks. I mean, wasn't it Sylvia who had the etf, the drone etf Anyway,
- [09:01]
Kelly Evans
President Trump just posting on true social. The United States will be hitting Iran whose Navy, air, Air force, radar and anti aircraft and all other forms of defense together with most of its offensive capability are gone. We'll be hitting him very hard tonight. At some point in the not too distant future, we will be taking Carg island and other oil infrastructure points and assume total control of their oil and gas markets, much like we have with Venezuela, which is working out brilliantly for both Venezuela and the United States of America. Thank you for your attention to this matter. President DONALD J. Trump and we, I
- [09:41]
George Pyne
mean, look, we have to show the
- [09:42]
Kelly Evans
futures, they were 100 points higher on the Dow and the in the Nasdaq, but still higher in oil is still below 90. I think it's up a little bit this morning. I think we're going to see where that is because, you know, we just talked about taking over Carg Island.
- [10:00]
George Pyne
The U.S. justice Department has sent subpoenas to some of America's largest banks, including J.P. morgan, bank of America and Wells Fargo. Government is requesting information about whether they debanked clients or improperly closed customer accounts for political reasons. The subpoenas were sent from the U.S. attorney's office in Washington D.C. headed by Jeanine Pirro. President Trump has accused the banks of discriminating against conservatives, including his own family. Banks have said they don't close accounts for religious or political reasons. Separately, Citigroup shares closed lower by about 1% yesterday, but that outperformed most of its peers. At 9:30am yesterday, President Trump appraised the bank, writing on Truth Social that it was ranked number one in topping M and A advisory market in the first quarter. And he congratulated C CEO Jane Fraser. The Nasdaq 100 has slumped nearly 7% in the first five trading days that Space X has been marketing its IPO typically think that would be a headwind, but Space X has another catalyst working in its favor. Leslie Picker joins us now with that story. Leslie.
- [11:02]
Leslie Picker
Hey Kelly, good morning. Some of that recent pressure stems from investors rotating out of the recent winners to free up cash for an allocation. Normally that would impact pricing for an ipo, as you point out, especially especially if a debuting company's publicly traded comparables have sold off. In Space X, his case, there's one fixed price of $135 per share and it's not really seen as having any comparables. But as you mentioned, perhaps even more importantly, Space X has another powerful tailwind, rendering much of the market noise irrelevant. It's its game of flows. That's what capital markets research firm Entropic calls the impact of on Space X from the passive demand. In the weeks following its ipo. If you recall, several providers have changed their rules, allowing for mega cap IPOs like Space X to be fast tracked into various indexes. Entropic estimates that in just three weeks passive ownership of SpaceX will be a whopping 30%. And that's in addition to the 30% the company is targeting to allocate to retail. These so called temporary concentrated buying events could bolster Space X's stock. BNP Paribas is estimating passive funds will buy $15 billion in Space X his first three weeks of trading and that's on a float of $75 billion. The prospect of passive flows has brought a certain price insensitive investor cohort to the IPO allocation table. As one investor described it to me, even if you don't like Space X's valuations, the trade could be set up to work. Of course, this all depends on who receives allocation beginning tonight and whether or not they plan to hold on to it over the next few weeks. Either way, we're likely in for a pretty volatile time guys.
- [12:46]
George Pyne
Last we heard was it was four times oversubscribed, which I liked. Your point. That doesn't necessarily mean because everyone say well that's an indication of how it's going to go. Well, not necessarily.
- [12:56]
Leslie Picker
Yeah. It's basically, these are indications of interest. They're not binding orders. And with such a high retail proportion, my understanding is retail has to go back in and say, yes, I do actually want this. So they may have, you know, a week ago put in for orders and then kind of forgotten about it and then they don't get the order. Like, that's not real demand. So you really need to kind of make sure that the people who are indicating that they are interested in this IPO do ultimately put in orders. How comfortable do you feel with the people who put in orders in terms of, you know, the actual demand and the actual allocation of people who will hold on to it, not flip. And then there's a big question of those who didn't get that allocation, or are they the marginal buyers on day one that could move the stock?
- [13:39]
Kelly Evans
I ask, like, guys that I deal with, we can't do a lot, obviously here with individual names. I said, okay, if I want to buy a thousand shares of SpaceX on the. Can you. Can I, can you do that for me? And he said, I do have orders in for people, but I have no idea whether they're going to get filled.
- [13:57]
Leslie Picker
Yeah, yeah, that's.
- [13:58]
Kelly Evans
And I'm almost 100% sure that even me as important as I know, but I'm pretty sure that I could not.
- [14:07]
Leslie Picker
Well, that's, that's the tell.
- [14:09]
Kelly Evans
Most normal investors can't. Can't participate. You got to buy it after it opens and who knows from there.
- [14:15]
George Pyne
Yeah, yeah, I've heard similar people trying
- [14:20]
Kelly Evans
to get in the old days, the hot, you know, way retail got. Got it. An office, a brokerage Office will get 100 shares and the biggest producer would give it to his best client.
- [14:30]
Leslie Picker
Well, you'll start finding out tonight. And the tell for those of you who have put in orders out there is if you do find that your full allocation request has been filled, that's usually a negative sign. Yeah, you want to be back. You want to make sure that you're not getting your full order because that means there's so much demand that they have to kind of cut everybody twice as much.
- [14:48]
Kelly Evans
Bag holder here. Enjoy. All right, thank you, sir. May I have another? Thank you.
- [14:56]
Cameron Costa
Teas will be next.
- [14:58]
Joe Kernan
Coming up on Squawk Pod, zooming in on prediction markets. Kalshee has asserted that sports betting's regulator is the CFTC, thanks to the Dodd Frank act of 2010. Gary Gensler ran the CFTC when Dodd Frank was passed.
- [15:12]
Gary Gensler
I think at the core of this issue is, did Congress in 2010 say no, none of the states can regulate this. It's going to this little small agency that I once was proud to run. And the answer is categorically no.
- [15:28]
Joe Kernan
So who's in charge of sports betting and who isn't? That's right after this.
- [15:35]
Cash App Announcer
Bitcoin is often talked about as an investment, but it was built to be used with Cash App. You can actually do that. Send Bitcoin instantly, pay at local square businesses that accept it, or move it to your own wallet whenever you want. It works more like real money and less like something locked in an account for a limited time. New customers can get $10 added to their balance. Just use code CASHAPP10 when you sign up. And don't forget this part. Send at least $5 to a friend in the first two weeks terms apply. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App's bank partners Bitcoin services provided by Block Inc. Brand for additional information, see the Bitcoin disclosures at Cash App Legal Podcast At
- [16:32]
Venture Global Announcer
Venture Global, we think about what can be done, not what's usually done through innovation. Venture Global is not only building some of the largest energy facilities in the world right here in the United States, but delivering American energy at a fraction of the cost in a fraction of the time. So while others are busy talking, we're busy building. That's Venture Global. That's unstoppable energy.
- [17:01]
Progressive Motorcycle Insurance Announcer
Support for this podcast comes from Progressive, America's number one motorcycle insurer. Did you know riders who switch and save with Progressive save nearly $200 per year. That's a whole new pair of riding gloves and more. Quote, today Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $197 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between October 2024 and September 2025. Potential savings will vary
- [17:30]
Joe Kernan
welcome back to Squawk Pod Today with Joe Kernan and Kelly Evans.
- [17:34]
Kelly Evans
Here's Joe Former CFTC Chairman Gary Gensler is filing an amicus brief arguing Congress did not intend to make the CFTC the nationwide regulator of sports betting when it passed the Dodd Frank act in 2010. Gary Gensler served as CFTC Chairman under President Obama when Dodd Frank was passed and he later served as SEC Chair, as you know, and was a frequent guest under President Biden. Good to see you this morning. You're in town.
- [18:02]
Gary Gensler
Terrific to be with you. Kelly.
- [18:04]
Kelly Evans
How are those courtside seats you had last night at the game? That why you're in town?
- [18:09]
Gary Gensler
Boy, that Would have been exciting. I mean can you just imagine with 1.2 seconds left, that little tip in on his finger?
- [18:16]
Kelly Evans
I mean he barely was able to reach it.
- [18:18]
Gary Gensler
Yeah. And when it was 29 points away, I went on Polymarket. I have to admit it. I went on, I said. And it right then it was trading at 93 cents to 7 cents.
- [18:29]
Kelly Evans
It was.
- [18:29]
Gary Gensler
Yeah. And then, you know, it came the other way.
- [18:32]
Kelly Evans
But you didn't place it back.
- [18:34]
Gary Gensler
No, I did not. I have no economic interest in any.
- [18:38]
Kelly Evans
But off camera you said you can understand why people like to do this. Right.
- [18:41]
Gary Gensler
Look, it's since antiquity we humans like to wager on sports. I think at the core of this issue is did Congress in 2010 say no, none of the states can regulate this. It's going to this little small agency that I once was proud to run. And the answer is categorically no. If we had asked Senator Harry Reid, who was then the majority leader, who had the Nevada Senator Harry Reid, we're going to take this and move this to the federal government, he would have thrown me out of his office.
- [19:17]
Kelly Evans
Right. It's not staffed. It's not, was never designed.
- [19:21]
Gary Gensler
It's. No, it's not handle it. It's, it's, it's an agency that was set up in the 1970s around corn, wheat, agricultural derivatives and then energy and interest rate derivatives. Important stuff. Really important stuff. But to think that you're going to regulate millions of transactions of whether somebody's going to hit a three point play.
- [19:47]
Kelly Evans
Yeah. So what is your. In the AM you're going to file an amicus brief later today in the sixth Circuit. In the sixth Circuit saying what?
- [19:55]
Gary Gensler
Well, in essence I want to tell the story of why Congress did what they did. Millions of people were out of work, millions of people had lost their homes and there was a desire to cover what was called the credit default swap market and the interest swap market, not sports betting. And tell that in a way courts like to hear it. Looking at the text, looking at the words and, and I think that that's what I want to do and I want to respect Harry Reid too. I know you and I might differ on Harry.
- [20:30]
Kelly Evans
I told you I was still mad at Harry for. And I'm not, not necessarily a Mitt Romney fan, but, but to say he never paid any taxes and then after he loses and they prove that he did pay taxes and then Harry Reid says, well, we won, didn't we? I think you knew the whole time.
- [20:45]
Gary Gensler
But to think that under the U.S. senate at that time when nobody was talking about sports betting. No, I testified in Congress 54 times and literally Republicans and Democrats alike, nobody said, oh, you know what, Gensler, I think we should give your small agency under President Obama authority to regulate sports betting.
- [21:09]
George Pyne
Even this recent, kind of like the rise of all these platforms comes from the CFTC dropping lawsuits against them. I mean, it's not as if that there was some big rule change. So the CBC now has come out with this big proposal. I'm sure you've seen it, 200 some pages where they talk about what they think should, should and shouldn't be permitted. They would permit betting on outcomes, maybe not so much betting on injuries, things that can be more manipulated. Is that a step in the right direction?
- [21:33]
Gary Gensler
No, no. What they're trying to do is to one, say that they have authority over sports betting, which I don't think they do. That will play out all the way to the Supreme Court, of course. And two, they're trying to reverse a rule. We voted unanimously back in like 2011, unanimously, to prohibit agreements, contracts or transactions. Listen. On assassination, war, terrorism, gaming or unlawful acts. Those five categories were placed there in Congress. And it was placed there because most members of Congress thought there shouldn't be contracts on assassination, war and terrorism. And interestingly, Congress said put gaming in there too. There shouldn't be contracts.
- [22:18]
George Pyne
Right. And they're now arguing that gaming is, you know, different definition or something.
- [22:22]
Gary Gensler
Yeah. And so we unanimously voted on that 14, 15 years ago. And the CFTC is saying, well, let's reverse that. But I don't even think they have authority over sports betting at all in 70 to 80.
- [22:39]
Kelly Evans
I didn't realize that 70 to 80% is sports betting.
- [22:42]
Gary Gensler
Yeah. If you look at Kalshi and you look at polymarket, that's. That's where this, that's where the revenues are. And they're competing with FanDuel and DraftKing.
- [22:52]
Kelly Evans
Right. Like.
- [22:53]
Gary Gensler
Like if this is regulated at the states where I believe it is, people could still bet on FanDuel and Drift King or at the casino.
- [23:03]
Kelly Evans
Yeah. So would the CFTC try to say to the states that they're not able to do that?
- [23:09]
Gary Gensler
There's about 30 lawsuits going on right now in this country and the CFTC has done something pretty unusual. They've preemptively filed suits against various states, Arizona, New York and other states. But interestingly, 39 states, states joined together, you might call them red states, purple states and blue states joined together last week and filed together an amicus brief in the same six circuit case that I'm filing this, I've never done this before. I'm doing it really just out of respect for everybody. And what we did 15 years ago was about, it was about these credit default swaps and interest rates.
- [23:48]
George Pyne
The world according to how you think it should be ordered. There is a place for sports betting, but regulated by whom?
- [23:56]
Gary Gensler
Well, it's how it is ordered. It's regulated by the states.
- [23:59]
Kelly Evans
The states have a lot of money. The CFTC doesn't have the resources.
- [24:03]
Gary Gensler
That's right. The CFTC has shrunk, but it's maybe 400 people. It's actually just recently, this past week has put out another downsizing and then the states have all this revenue. Let the states do it. And by the way, some states prohibit it. Eleven states prohibit it completely. Some states say, listen, you can bet if you turn 21, not 18. And here the CFTC is saying anybody can do it in all 50 states and you can do it even if you're 18. And you know, there are legitimate concerns and debates about addiction. There's legitimate concerns about whether this is good for kids to do the dopamine rush of it all, so to speak. Let the state sort that out.
- [24:51]
Kelly Evans
Do you think we've got a handle on the non sports?
- [24:56]
Gary Gensler
No. Look, Joe, you've raised a really good point. Prediction markets were raised many years ago by the Defense Research Bureau called DARPA inside the Defense Department and they said maybe we should have some contracts with, on terrorism, war, assassination. And it got shot down in 24 hours. The George W. Bush administration said they disavowed that. And the reason is, is that it's pretty tricky stuff to say let's have a contract on whether you're going to take out Maduro in Venezuela, whether you're
- [25:32]
George Pyne
going to take out that in the first place.
- [25:34]
Gary Gensler
It was right after 9, 11. And DARPA said, well, maybe we could learn something because somebody who knows what the, somebody in that, in that era, somebody a bad guy in the Middle east was going to do, maybe it would leak into the markets and but here's the thing, I don't think you can really protect the integrity of the underlying market. It's really hard to protect the underlying integrity of sports. But here, but here.
- [26:04]
Kelly Evans
Can you protect sports and everything else in the world?
- [26:08]
Gary Gensler
That's right. Can you do it on one, what you call political events or geopolitical. Will somebody leak something out of the Situation Room? So when I was at the CFTC and working on that Dodd Frank bill, we went to Congress and we said do you Know that movie Trading Places? You know Eddie Murphy movie where he was, he was a trader and he got some information from brothers. That's right. He got some information, the Department of Agriculture on the orange crop report and he traded on frozen orange futures. I asked the staff, I said, is that illegal? They said, well, no, not, not really. I said we should ask Congress for a provision. We called it the Eddie Murphy provision. Congress put it in. It's now is illegal to trade on inside information from the government. I think Congress could maybe go further.
- [26:58]
George Pyne
This is about companies now too. I mean look at the Google guy who was placing all these bets because he was aware of what was going on inside. So now Kalsh is going to require you to sue, sort of say what your company is when you sign up. But I'm not sure if that goes far enough.
- [27:08]
Gary Gensler
Yeah, it's very hard to ensure that there's no insider trading in the stock market, but in these markets it's so much harder. There's so many more contracts. There's not like an issuer. You know, there's those fiduciary duties. You're just some political consultant or somebody at Google that was on search. And so I also think Congress would be well advised to say, listen, nobody in the government should trade on these things. You're a congressional staffer, you're an executive branch or White House staffer.
- [27:46]
George Pyne
They're working on that. I mean that.
- [27:47]
Gary Gensler
Yeah, let's get it over the line.
- [27:50]
George Pyne
Yeah.
- [27:51]
Kelly Evans
Dan Aykroyd, Ralph Bellamy, Don Amici, Jamie Lee Curtis. Do you remember all these people? I remember.
- [27:57]
Gary Gensler
Remarkable funny movie. I don't, I don't know if it would be made today. No, but it was really funny and
- [28:05]
Kelly Evans
I bet I placed a bet earlier on a prediction market that you have finally turned on bitcoin and are a big owner of bitcoin.
- [28:13]
Gary Gensler
You place that bet. House of War. Is it Trading Joe now?
- [28:16]
Kelly Evans
Now I did not. I'm kidding. But it's at 63. If you're ever going to do it, to come all the way down. If you're ever going to do it. This might be the time, Gary.
- [28:26]
Gary Gensler
Yeah, I see. Listen, there's a lot of things you
- [28:30]
Kelly Evans
are, you're saying you're going to do it. Have you done it yet? No. You're still not a whole no, Joe. What?
- [28:36]
Gary Gensler
No.
- [28:36]
Kelly Evans
People made me ask you that. You know, there's still a pretty rabid following even though it's down 50%.
- [28:42]
Gary Gensler
But yeah, yeah. Look, all financial markets trade on a mixture of fundamentals and Sentiment, we know that. Right. And Even like this SpaceX offering, you know, how much is of that is sentiment versus fundamentals at 100 times revenue.
- [28:56]
George Pyne
I wanted to ask what you think about what it's perpetual futures and all the zero day option. I mean the explosion, it's not just about sports betting. It feels like everything has now become a leveraged bet. And it's just another way to kind of, I don't know, I feel like it's another way for people to lose money.
- [29:10]
Gary Gensler
It's. Those are risk in the system. The risk in the system are how much is the market is one sentiment rather than fundamentals. The risk in the system, the leverage that you said. And thirdly, for individuals, whether there's an understanding and there's that sort of, you know, that rush of, of same day option betting, crypto betting, prediction markets.
- [29:36]
Kelly Evans
Right.
- [29:37]
Gary Gensler
And so it taps into that excitement of picking up your cell phone.
- [29:43]
Kelly Evans
Right.
- [29:44]
Gary Gensler
But I'll tell you this, I'll tell you this, Joe. In my class at MIT and Simon Johnson, I do this power and consequences podcast where we've talked about prediction markets and so forth. I find that more students today are trading in prediction markets. If I just ask for a show of hands at mit, then your favorite
- [30:06]
Kelly Evans
crypto market, then I just talk about it. Not my favorite, but you and Mnuchin finally buy probably a million and it'll be. By then. That'll probably be the absolute top.
- [30:18]
Gary Gensler
No, no, no. Steve, Steve, he's already in. I have no idea.
- [30:22]
Kelly Evans
But you're not.
- [30:23]
Gary Gensler
I'll leave it for.
- [30:24]
Kelly Evans
You're not.
- [30:25]
Gary Gensler
There you go. Okay.
- [30:27]
Kelly Evans
Gary Gensler. Thank you.
- [30:28]
Gary Gensler
Thank you.
- [30:29]
Kelly Evans
And a reminder, CNBC and Koshi have a commercial relationship. Oh, my God. That includes customer acquisition and a minority investment. It is 8am on the East Coast. You're watching Squaw Fox on CNBC. I'm Joe Kernan along with Kelly Evans. Gary Gensler. No, he's leaving. It was good to have you on.
- [30:48]
Gary Gensler
Great to have you.
- [30:51]
Joe Kernan
Next on Squawk Pod, the Knicks pulled out a huge comeback in Game 4 of the NBA Finals. And it is not just New York that's buzzing. Bruin Capital founder and CEO George Pyne on the universal hunger for entertainment.
- [31:05]
Cameron Costa
Streaming has kind of commoditized entertainment and sports is benefiting from the commoditization. You know, programming is less special. It's harder to watch. You know, you go on Netflix, there's 100 shows. What do I watch? Look at last night. 29 points. They come back. How about that rebound? I mean, you can't make that stuff up, right?
- [31:22]
Joe Kernan
Sounds like it's a really good time for the World cup to start. We're back right after this.
- [31:30]
Venture Global Announcer
At Venture Global, we think about what can be done, not what's usually done through innovation. Venture Global is not only building some of the largest energy facilities in the world right here in the United States, but delivering American energy at a fraction of the cost in a fraction of the time. So while others are busy talking, we're busy building. That's Venture Global. That's unstoppable energy.
- [32:00]
Progressive Commercial Announcer
It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show, see termsiscover.com credit card support for this
- [32:26]
Progressive Motorcycle Insurance Announcer
podcast comes from Progressive, America's number one motorcycle insurer. Did you know riders who switch and save with Progressive save nearly $200 per year. That's a whole new pair of riding gloves. And more. Quote today. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. National average 12 month savings of $197 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between October 2024 and September 2025. Potential savings will vary.
- [32:55]
Joe Kernan
This is Squawk Pod.
- [32:57]
Kelly Evans
You're watching Squawk Box on cnbc. I'm Joe Kernan along with Kelly Evans. Becky and Andrew are off the day. You only signed up for one day this time, didn't you?
- [33:05]
George Pyne
One hour.
- [33:06]
Kelly Evans
No.
- [33:06]
George Pyne
Yes.
- [33:07]
Kelly Evans
Yeah. Just one day. Yeah. I think Melissa's in.
- [33:11]
George Pyne
You know, I want our kids to play each other in chess.
- [33:14]
Kelly Evans
Well, you do.
- [33:14]
George Pyne
I do. I think, yeah.
- [33:16]
Kelly Evans
Face off, that's.
- [33:18]
Gary Gensler
That's going to be tough competition you're
- [33:20]
Kelly Evans
throwing down, I'll mention that.
- [33:22]
George Pyne
Well, you might have heard by now, but the New York Knicks are a game away from their first NBA championship season since 1973. Following a historic home court comeback in Game 4 of the Finals last night, the Knicks rallied from 29 points down to beat the Spurs 107 to 106, capped by a tip in after a missed three pointer with seconds remaining. Before last night, no team had come back for more than 24 points down in a finals game. Game 5 is Saturday night in San Antonio and ESPN is saying that Monday night's contest in New York was the most watched NBA Finals game, NBA Finals Game 3 since 1998.
- [33:59]
Kelly Evans
No stack. We need The NBA needs more. They need it to go seven.
- [34:04]
George Pyne
Don't you think he's like, just wrapping up.
- [34:08]
Kelly Evans
Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I'd get to watch one, you know, probably just one.
- [34:16]
George Pyne
Joining us now is Bruin Capital founder and CEO George Pine. George, it's great to see you.
- [34:20]
Cameron Costa
Great to be here. Thanks for having me.
- [34:22]
George Pyne
So, big deal for the NBA. Most watched game four, three was it in 30 years? 1998.
- [34:28]
Cameron Costa
Unbelievable.
- [34:29]
George Pyne
So this is not just people here in New York excited. This is clearly attracting a lot of interest.
- [34:33]
Cameron Costa
No question. I mean, sports is really surging right now. The NBA had a great regular season, great playoffs, the Finals, fantastic. That that game's up 159% year over year. But it's not just the NBA. You know, the NHL is expensive. Experiencing a great Finals, great regular season. Baseball off to a strong start. Golf, sports is surging. You know, streaming has commoditized, scripted entertainment. Artificial intelligence is going to enhance sports, not disrupt it. How is sports. Is having a moment.
- [35:04]
George Pyne
Artificial intelligence going to enhance. Wait, wait, let me walk back through again. What are you saying about streaming?
- [35:09]
Cameron Costa
Streaming has kind of commoditized entertainment, and sports is benefiting from the commodity monetization. You know, programming is less special. It's harder to watch. You know, you go on, Netflix is 100 shows. What do I watch? It's hard to engage consumers the way you used to engage.
- [35:22]
George Pyne
It's funny you say that, because Netflix shares, as you probably know, have been under pressure. And this is after the, you know, they were doing really well a year or so ago. Then there was the WBD thing. That didn't happen. They didn't rebound. They've still struggled a bit. And there are a lot of people are saying, well, name the last big Netflix show you watch. So you think there's too much content, not enough differentiation. Nothing special is standing out in the streaming world. Not great economics over there either. And sports, here you come.
- [35:47]
Cameron Costa
Here it comes to the best unscripted programming there is. There's good guys, bad guys, winners, losers.
- [35:53]
Kelly Evans
It's.
- [35:53]
Cameron Costa
Look at last night, 29 points. They come back. How about that rebound? I mean, you can't make that stuff up, right?
- [35:59]
Kelly Evans
Don't you want three more games?
- [36:01]
Cameron Costa
I do want three more games, but I'm sure if you're a Knicks fan, you'll take. Take it one, one's all year.
- [36:06]
Kelly Evans
Netflix is. I mean, I need to talk to them. I mean, the, the quality is so bad. The, the, the writing is bad on the stuff that it's so Woke every single show. So every. Every possible way you can do it. A. Something woke is in there. It's like, God, I mean, you ramming this down my throat.
- [36:24]
Cameron Costa
I mean.
- [36:25]
Kelly Evans
But the worst thing, it just sucks The, The. The stuff that they.
- [36:27]
Cameron Costa
I'm a Celtics fan and I love the Knicks winning and I love what I saw last year.
- [36:31]
Kelly Evans
Yeah, that's interesting, right? Because it's just.
- [36:32]
Cameron Costa
It just. It's just great that. That rebound.
- [36:35]
Kelly Evans
You think Wemby is just a horrible person. I mean, all the guys around here are telling me that. What do you want to do to him?
- [36:41]
Cameron Costa
Sec.
- [36:41]
Kelly Evans
Someone needs to.
- [36:43]
Cameron Costa
He's a young. He's not the first young player that when the spotlight's on him, he's challenged.
- [36:47]
Kelly Evans
He was really mad about that foul the other night, I guess.
- [36:49]
Cameron Costa
I know, but he'll have his moments. He's a great player.
- [36:51]
Kelly Evans
He's amazing. Right? So graceful. I mean, for.
- [36:54]
Cameron Costa
Sometimes you got to learn how to lose before you win, you know, that's. That's life.
- [36:58]
George Pyne
And he still made it to the finals early.
- [36:59]
Kelly Evans
Well, what happened last night? They. I didn't get to watch it, obviously, but they were shooting three pointers instead of, you know, running out the clock or.
- [37:08]
Cameron Costa
Yeah, well, also to. The Knicks had 14 three pointers, the most in NBA Finals history. Right.
- [37:13]
Kelly Evans
Pretty.
- [37:13]
Cameron Costa
Pretty special.
- [37:14]
George Pyne
Wow. Can we talk World Cup?
- [37:16]
Cameron Costa
Sure.
- [37:16]
George Pyne
Now that this is. I mean, one way or the other, it's going to be over soon. And where it was supposed to be, World cup fever, right now, in many ways it is. But is this overhyped? Is it. It's the biggest ever. The most teams ever. You know, tons of people are betting on it. We know all of that. There's been some drama obviously, around, you know, each of the venues, but especially the ones around here.
- [37:36]
Cameron Costa
Well, look, soccer is the biggest sport in the world. You know, they've raised $9 billion for a 39 day tournament. You're going to have 1.5 billion people watch the final and billions more watch it, all the matches. So this is a big event. It's unlike any other event in the world and it should be great. Very exciting. Yes. There's been some logistical issues, and that's good for stories, but I think the product will speak for itself.
- [37:59]
George Pyne
So what does Netflix, what does Paramount, what does Peacock, what do all of these streaming platforms do if the best content out there right now is sports? And by the way, sports rights are really expensive.
- [38:12]
Cameron Costa
Well, they're expensive because they're valuable. Right. And I think when you think about the Stream is long term. What's going to entice the streamers about sports is sports will over index in advertising because the engagement New York Knicks fans feel to their, their team. So I think sports is well positioned and I'm not saying that as an enthusiast. When you look at the TV numbers, highest masters in 10 years. Every single sport right now is having a moment.
- [38:38]
Kelly Evans
Wait a second. Pickleball.
- [38:39]
Cameron Costa
Well, I'm not going to go that far. I'm talking about the court.
- [38:42]
Kelly Evans
You're trying to make that something that.
- [38:43]
Cameron Costa
Look, we've got everything going on. Not everything's going to work. But I'm talking about the major sports.
- [38:48]
Kelly Evans
I mean, we had an interview yesterday about. People are mad in Congress about the NFL just milking every last dime out of every game. You got to. You need 10 different streaming services to watch a game you might want to watch.
- [39:02]
Cameron Costa
Well, that's fair. That's a balancing act both from the NFL and Congress. And I'm going to leave that to the, to them. But that, you know, there's always a balance.
- [39:09]
Kelly Evans
If I was goodell, this is what I would be doing. Every single game is worth so much because of what you're describing. But it used to be over the airwaves, you know, you just.
- [39:19]
Cameron Costa
Yeah, that's a, that's a balancing act of growth. How you and I think that the market will work that out.
- [39:26]
Kelly Evans
You went in the right business and you're kind of gloating.
- [39:29]
Cameron Costa
It's better. It's better to be lucky than good. Joe And I feel right now it's a moment in sports.
- [39:33]
George Pyne
The only. Listen, I want to leave it on a high note, but the, the only one that I wonder about a little bit is what's happened to college sports. And I'm just curious. I mean, maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe it does. It just, it just feels so different from what it was 10 or 20 years.
- [39:46]
Cameron Costa
Yeah. You know, college sports is going through a change. Right. It's an evolution. The product on the field. You know, 30 million people watch the finals, 18 million the quarterfinals. The product on the field has ever been better. You know, Indiana, the second worst team in the history of college football, won. Now, you know, a lot of the issues college sports is facing are similar to the Olympics. Remember when they went from, you can't be. You have to be an amateur, you can't be paid. They went through that transition. A lot of people got up at 8am to watch the hockey game. I think that college will fare well, but they're going through Some growth dynamics.
- [40:19]
Kelly Evans
Now you might actually have to be a man or a woman. I mean, it's crazy what the Olympics are like. He's trying every time I say.
- [40:27]
Cameron Costa
He's like, I'm a sports guy.
- [40:31]
Kelly Evans
I know. I don't want to weigh in on that. We like to shake it up a little while we're here. We don't mean any. Me too.
- [40:37]
George Pyne
Especially when you're in such a good moment.
- [40:39]
Kelly Evans
We don't mean any harm.
- [40:40]
Cameron Costa
Yeah, that's okay. That's okay. I'm a big guy.
- [40:42]
Kelly Evans
Awnba too.
- [40:44]
Cameron Costa
Fantastic. Women's sports again. Another example, women's sports is attraction today.
- [40:49]
Kelly Evans
Did you watch that? Did you see that putt?
- [40:51]
Cameron Costa
Unbelievable. Unbelievable.
- [40:52]
Kelly Evans
Did you see the putt that almost didn't go in? You did so. You're just all over the place.
- [40:56]
Cameron Costa
It's my job.
- [40:59]
George Pyne
Well said.
- [41:00]
Kelly Evans
Right? And Shinnecock's coming up.
- [41:02]
Cameron Costa
Be gonna be fun.
- [41:03]
Kelly Evans
It's gonna be unbelievable, that course. Remember the last one? Remember it may not have been the last one. Remember Retief those greens? He was the only person in the world that seemed like they could even get a par on a hole.
- [41:16]
Cameron Costa
Golf is having a moment too. Everybody's having a moment.
- [41:19]
Kelly Evans
Without Tiger.
- [41:20]
Cameron Costa
Without Tiger, which is special, I believe.
- [41:22]
Kelly Evans
Yeah, it's good. All right, George. Thank you.
- [41:26]
Cameron Costa
Thanks for having me. Great to see you.
- [41:27]
Kelly Evans
I love the Bruins too. Oh, you got nothing to do with the Bruins.
- [41:30]
Cameron Costa
Brown Bruins, baby. Brown Bruins.
- [41:35]
Joe Kernan
That does it for Squawkpod today. Thank you for listening. Squawkbox is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Weekday mornings on cnbc Starting at 6am Eastern to get the smartest takes and analysis from our TV show right into your ears. Follow Squawkpod wherever you get your podcasts. We'll meet you right back here here tomorrow. Have a great day.
- [42:09]
Progressive Motorcycle Insurance Announcer
Support for this podcast comes from Progressive, America's number one motorcycle insurer. Did you know riders who switch and save with Progressive save nearly $200 per year. That's a whole new pair of riding gloves. And more. Quote, today, Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $197 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between October 2024 and September 2025. Potential savings will vary.