Squawk Pod Episode Summary

Episode Title: The Saudi Visit, the Epstein Vote & Oz Perlman the Mentalist
Date: November 18, 2025
Hosts: Joe Kernen, Andrew Ross Sorkin
Notable Guests: Ret. Gen. David Petraeus, Emily Wilkins, Oz Perlman

Episode Overview

This episode covers three major topics:

• The diplomatic significance of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman's (MBS) high-profile visit to the White House and its geopolitical implications.
• The political fallout from the release of new Jeffrey Epstein files, pressuring public figures like Larry Summers to step away from public life.
• A mind-bending segment with mentalist Oz Perlman, who astonishes the hosts with live mental feats.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Saudi Crown Prince’s State Visit to the U.S.

[03:03 – 06:18; 20:24 – 29:20]

Context & Stakes

• MBS's First Visit Since Khashoggi Murder: This is MBS’s first U.S. visit since the 2018 murder of Jamal Khashoggi. Hosts reflect on how the U.S.–Saudi relationship has evolved and on ongoing controversies.
  • Joe Kernen [03:03]: “We used to talk about it all the time. Khashoggi. This is where we are now, full circle.”
  • Andrew Ross Sorkin [04:54]: “What is the penalty? Is there… a duration to that penalty box? Are you canceled forever, or… are there different measures for different people for different offenses?”

Policy & Deals

• Anticipated Announcements:
  • Sale of up to 48 Lockheed Martin F35 jets to Saudi Arabia – a move with major regional implications.
  • Potential mutual defense pacts, nuclear cooperation, and discussions on Saudi participation in the Abraham Accords (pending progress on a two-state solution for Palestine).
  • Saudi investments projected at $600 billion in the U.S.
  • Gen. David Petraeus [21:02]: “It’s a very significant visit… there are a lot of deliverables and I think it will be something they’ll definitely celebrate this evening…”

Security and Geopolitical Risks

• Technology Transfer Concerns:
  • Andrew Ross Sorkin [22:32]: “There’s some concern… these planes could ultimately either wind up in the hands of the Chinese…”
  • Gen. Petraeus [22:52]: “I think there’s reason to be concerned… The key is… making sure there are safeguards, that there’s no way they can reverse engineer.”

Morality vs. Realpolitik

• Debate over the “half-life” of events like the Khashoggi killing, and the tension between moral outrage and geopolitical necessity.
  • David Petraeus [23:53]: “It’s obviously something that has no half life… But at the end of the day… you face the reality, the world the way it is, not necessarily the way you’d like it to be.”
  • Joe Kernen [24:21]: “In the black and white world of what’s right and what’s wrong, it has no half life. In the gray world of what we deal with, it obviously has a half life.”

Links to Middle East Conflicts

• The meeting’s timing connects to the situation in Gaza and broader regional security:
  • David Petraeus [24:57]: “Unfortunately, Hamas is still the guys with the most guns in Gaza. There is still essentially the government…”

On Russia and Sanctions

• Gen. Petraeus outlines how sanctions could force Russia’s hand in Ukraine, emphasizing support for Ukraine via laundered Russian reserves and increased economic pressure on Russia and its allies.
  • [27:22 – 29:20]

2. New Epstein Files and the ‘Morality Penalty Box’

[06:31 – 18:43]

Larry Summers & Morality Double Standards

• Andrew Ross Sorkin [06:31]: Breaks news that Larry Summers is stepping back from public life after new Epstein emails are revealed.
• Conversation tackles how different public figures face varying repercussions for moral lapses and controversial associations.
  • Joe Kernen [05:21]: “There are economic concerns… Countries that do things that there’s no way we’d tolerate… It’s gray.”
  • Andrew Ross Sorkin [09:07]: “It feels like… the window around what people think about morality, either care about morality, don’t care about morality. Is it selective to certain people?”

“Penalty Box” and Political Selectivity

• The segment becomes a spirited debate on media and public standards, reflecting on selective outrage. Bill Clinton’s, Trump’s, and other public figures’ Epstein associations are compared.
  • Joe Kernen [10:09]: “Okay, let’s say you got pictures of Trump back in the 90s with Epstein. That problematic for you?”
  • Andrew Ross Sorkin [10:19]: “I think it’s not great… But then as I say, you got your other friends like Clinton… jet rides down to the island…”

Reflection on Accountability

• Hosts discuss the impact of new evidence and the problem of judging without all the facts.
  • Andrew Ross Sorkin [11:05]: “For whatever reason… there is a shift around selective thinking around questions about morality, about certain people for certain reasons.”

Notable Quote

• Andrew Ross Sorkin [13:08]: “Here we are now debating the morality, effectively, of Khashoggi this morning, right, who’s visiting at the White House… and whether somebody like Larry Summers should be stepping back from public life or not.”

3. Congressional GOP health care pitch: Health Savings Accounts

[14:25 – 17:22]

Emily Wilkins Explains the Proposal

• GOP senators, led by Bill Cassidy and supported by Trump, propose letting ACA premium tax credits expire, replacing them with prepaid health savings accounts for low-tier plans.
  • Emily Wilkins [14:25]: “Senator Bill Cassidy… is pitching a new plan: basically to let these premium tax credits… expire… and use the savings to provide prepaid health care savings accounts to those who sign up for the lowest tier.”

Policy Analysis and Concerns

• Health policy experts (KFF’s Larry Levitt) caution that many Americans may face less affordable deductibles.
  • Wilkins [16:30]: “If you are someone who has a high medical cost… an HSA is great for the initial chunk, but eventually there is a giant bill…”

4. Oz Perlman, Wall Street’s Favorite Mentalist

[30:28 – 39:01]

Live Mind-Reading Segment

• Oz Perlman joins the show to promote his new book, impressing the hosts with mind games involving numbers, books, and random selections.
  • Joe Kernan [30:51]: “I love it.”
  • Andrew Ross Sorkin [35:20]: “I can’t… I can’t do it anymore.”

Key Moments and Quotes

• Oz Perlman [32:05]: “Here’s where this gets interesting. What if you knew the future?”
• The mentalist correctly identifies both hosts’ random word selections with uncanny precision:
  • Oz Perlman [34:12]: “That was weird. That was weird, right? How does this happen?”
• The segment leaves the hosts speechless and jokingly bewildered:
  • Joe Kernan [36:05]: “Anything short of thinking he might be Satan…”
  • Andrew Ross Sorkin [36:46]: “I need more time.”
  • Andrew Ross Sorkin [37:38]: “I have no good explanation for this situation whatsoever. The previous ones were just as mind boggling.”

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On MBS’s Visit:
  • “It’s a very significant visit… a lot of deliverables and I think it will be again something… they will definitely celebrate this evening…”
    – Gen. Petraeus [21:02]
• On Khashoggi's Murder and Diplomacy:
  • “It’s always going to be there. But… you face the reality, the world the way it is, not necessarily the way you’d like it to be.”
    – Gen. Petraeus [23:53]
• On Morality Standards:
  • “It feels like… the window around what people think about morality… Is it selective to certain people?”
    – Andrew Ross Sorkin [09:07]
• On Policy & Health Savings Accounts:
  • “If you are someone who has a high medical cost… there is a giant bill that is coming.”
    – Emily Wilkins [16:30]
• On Mind-Reading Magic:
  • “I can’t… I can’t do it anymore.”
    – Andrew Ross Sorkin [35:20]
  • “Anything short of thinking he might be Satan… I mean, you’re like, I can’t even.”
    – Joe Kernan [36:05]

Key Timestamps

• [03:03] – MBS Visit overview and U.S.–Saudi relations
• [06:31] – Larry Summers, Epstein files, and selective moral judgment
• [14:25] – GOP’s new health care proposal (Wilkins)
• [20:24] – Gen. Petraeus on the visit’s stakes and Middle East security
• [24:57] – Status of Gaza, Hamas, and U.S. policy
• [27:22] – Russia sanctions and potential for ending Ukraine conflict
• [30:28] – Oz Perlman’s segment: mind reading and magic with the hosts

Memorable Moments

• The lively debate on whether public “penalty boxes” for moral lapses should have an expiration, or whether selectivity is inevitable in politics and the media.
• Gen. Petraeus offers a rare comprehensive preview of the likely outcomes of the Trump-MBS summit, connecting global diplomacy to military balance and regional stability.
• Oz Perlman’s mental tricks leave the anchors—and listeners—thoroughly flabbergasted, prompting laughter, disbelief, and some tongue-in-cheek speculation about supernatural powers.

Episode Tone and Style

• Tone: Spirited, candid, at times combative but always with a sense of humor and mutual respect.
• Language: Candid, sometimes irreverent, generally conversational with room for both deep analysis and lighthearted banter.
• Highlights: Heated debate, major news analysis, and comedic marvel at Oz Perlman’s illusions.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode provided a sweeping overview of the day’s biggest news: a historic, controversial U.S.–Saudi summit with game-changing international implications; the messy reality of how public figures face scandals in the Epstein era; a preview of coming health care battles; and some much-needed levity in the form of breathtaking mind-reading from an expert mentalist. Whether you’re tuning in for deep geopolitics or a bit of magic, it’s Squawk at its liveliest.