The Top State for Business & Debating Prediction Markets 7/9/26

Summary

Squawk Pod – “The Top State for Business & Debating Prediction Markets”

Date: July 9, 2026
Host: Joe Kernan, Melissa Lee (filling in), Scott Cohn
Notable Guests: Dean Heller (Former Nevada Senator & Kalshee Adviser), Mike DeWine (Ohio Governor), Megan Casella (CNBC), Chris Christie (via previous segment replay)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Squawk Pod centers on two main themes:

• The highly anticipated reveal of CNBC’s “Top State for Business” list for 2026, featuring an in-depth interview with Ohio’s Governor Mike DeWine, as Ohio claims the number one spot.
• A spirited debate on the rise of prediction markets, with former Senator Dean Heller countering the gaming industry perspective on peer-to-peer betting, transparency, and regulatory dynamics.

There are also discussions of geopolitical developments (US-Iran tensions), big market moves (SK Hynix US listing), and lighter moments as the crew shares celebratory banter about Ohio’s triumph.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. US Strikes Against Iran and Global Tensions

[02:57–05:51]

• Megan Casella recaps ongoing US and Iranian military exchanges in the Middle East.
  • President Trump sidestepped direct questions on escalation and intent to avoid full-scale war, while retaining sanctions and stating, "if it happens again, it will get much worse." (03:09)
  • Iranian officials issue counter-threats; uncertainty and market déjà vu.
  • "It all leaves the two sides at this point somewhat in limbo." – Megan Casella (04:29)

2. Business & Market Headlines

• SK Hynix: Massive US listing oversubscribed, with major influence in the AI supply chain. Could raise $25B, biggest ever. (05:51–06:34)
• Federal Reserve Policy: New Chair Kevin Warsh presiding over an uncertain interest rate environment—split between potential hikes and cuts. (06:34–07:49)
  • Banter about the end of the “briefcase indicator” and analog vs. digital at the modern Fed.

3. Politics

• Senate Race Scandal: Democratic candidate Graham Platner withdraws after misconduct allegations, with repercussions for party prospects in Maine. (08:41–09:13)

4. Prediction Markets vs. Traditional Gambling: The Debate

[11:44–19:34]

Chris Christie’s Critique (Replay at 12:01)

• Argues that prediction markets are effectively unregulated gambling, marketing to youth, and should pay taxes like sports betting operations.
  • “These guys are not regulated in any way… betting is not an investment, it's betting.” – Chris Christie (12:01–12:39)

Dean Heller's Response (13:11+)

• Disputes claims of unregulated activity: Kalshee is CFTC-licensed after four years of scrutiny.
  • "Literally that clip that you just played, 90% of it was inaccurate… this [misinformation] doesn't surprise me.” – Dean Heller (13:13)
• Draws distinction between peer-to-peer prediction markets and house-banked gambling:
  • “In gambling, if you lose, gaming wins. With prediction markets, all we're doing is putting a buyer and a seller together.” (15:25)
  • “There's algorithms that make sure the house wins most of the time… That's not true with prediction markets.”
• Melissa Lee presses on potential for algorithmic manipulation—bots gaining an edge over retail users.
  • Heller acknowledges limits of his technical knowledge but stresses transparency and consumer-friendliness.
  • “We're not talking anything different or not transparent… that's the upside to the prediction markets.” (17:43)
• Heller predicts prediction markets won’t threaten Las Vegas; sees room for both industries.

Notable Quote:
“Go to Las Vegas, enjoy yourself. Prediction markets, again, is a completely different industry. I think the two can get along quite well.”
— Dean Heller (18:57)

5. The Top State for Business: 2026 Reveal

[21:33–40:33]

Lead-Up & Methodology

• Scott Cohn recaps 20 years of state rankings, noting past winners (Virginia, North Carolina), and teases the top contenders. (21:33–24:03)
  • Rankings judged across 138 metrics in 10 categories, from workforce and infrastructure to quality of life and cost of doing business.

Countdown: Runners-Up* (25:21+)

• #5 Minnesota: Stellar quality of life, but higher costs.
• #4 Texas: Workforce and economy are strong, but troubled by crime and inclusiveness, poor quality of life.
• #3 Virginia: Infrastructure and education high, but economy weakens with federal cutbacks, costs rising.
• #2 North Carolina: Leading economy, growing but faces cost-of-living and worker protection challenges.

The Big Reveal: Ohio at #1 (28:32+)

• Location: Columbus, at the confluence of two rivers—tying in state history as clue-based riddles are explained.
• Historical innovation highlights: First commercial ambulance, Wright Brothers, cash register, electric traffic light—all “hints” to the winner.

Interview with Governor Mike DeWine (29:51–40:16)

• Strategic Focus: JobsOhio (privatized economic development agency) gave the state a strategic advantage, supporting inbound business and economic stability.
  • “We are focused on making this a business friendly state. Taxes are low… All those things are important.” (30:18)
• Affordability: Acknowledges high property taxes; recent legislative changes to address the issue.
• Data Centers: Welcomes development, but insists companies pay their fair share and recycle water.
• Transparency Critiques: JobsOhio considered opaque; DeWine aims for a “happy medium” between competitiveness and accountability.
• Workforce Development: Recognizes Ohio’s low ranking in workforce, counters with investments in tech and education, early literacy programs, and student incentives.
• Political Stability: DeWine notes Ohio governance remains centrist and steady—"what we tell you today is going to continue to be true two years, three years, four years.”
• Banter about potential gubernatorial candidates and notable alumni, including Vivek Ramaswamy.

Notable Quote:
“Ohio has great people… We get up in the morning, we go to work.”
— Gov. Mike DeWine (31:13)

Celebration & Personal Moments

• Joe Kernan expresses home-state pride, attempting (and failing) to pop a celebratory party popper live on air, prompting laughs and “manual” confetti. (34:09, 40:33+)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Joe Kernan (00:31): “I’m teary. I’m teary. And governor, thank you. It is finally happening.”
• Dean Heller (15:25): “With prediction markets, all we’re doing is putting a buyer and a seller together… In gambling, if you lose, gaming wins.”
• Scott Cohn (28:32): “We are live at the boathouse at the confluence… In the 20 years that we have been doing this, only a handful of states have reached this level, the pinnacle of American competitiveness. And now in 2026, Ohio is among them.”
• Mike DeWine (30:18): “We are focused on making this a business friendly state. Taxes are low… water, we have an abundance of water, but we also take care of it.”
• Melissa Lee (34:15): “Twist a little harder, Joe.”
• Scott Cohn (40:33): “Ohio is America's top state for business. 2026, guys.”

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Important Timestamps

• 02:57 – US/Iran military strikes update
• 05:51 – SK Hynix IPO, Fed policy, “briefcase indicator” banter
• 11:44 – Begin: Gambling vs. Prediction Markets segment
• 12:01 – Chris Christie segment replay; criticism of prediction markets
• 13:11 – Dean Heller responds, defends Kalshee and prediction markets
• 21:33 – Begin: Top State for Business segment
• 25:21 – Countdown and runners-up
• 28:32 – Live reveal: Ohio at #1
• 29:51–40:16 – Interview: Gov. Mike DeWine on Ohio’s path to #1
• 34:09, 40:33 – Party popper/confetti gags and closing celebration

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Style & Tone Highlights

• The hosts blend sharp financial and business analysis with playful camaraderie.
• Scott Cohn’s cryptic clues and on-location reveal add excitement and tradition.
• The debate over prediction markets versus traditional gambling is robust but cordial, marked by pointed rebuttals and lived experience (including Heller’s references to Nevada and finance).
• Celebrations of Ohio’s win amount to genuine, homegrown pride—with Joe Kernan as chief cheerleader.

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For Listeners New to This Episode

This episode brilliantly encapsulates Squawk Box’s signature approach: blending newsbreaking interviews, real-time market intelligence, playful repartee, and relevant policy debates. If you missed it, you’ll walk away understanding why Ohio triumphed as “Top State for Business” in 2026 and gain fresh insight into the battle brewing between the old guard of American gambling and the emerging world of prediction markets.

Transcript

[Comcast Business Announcer]

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[Market Analyst]

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And behind it all, thousands of experts answering your call at 2am like it's 2pm One partner powering how business gets done for companies around the globe. When you add it all up, no one does business like Comcast business. This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] MarketUpdatePodcast or find Schwab Market Update. Wherever you get your podcasts, bring in show music, please.

[Scott Cohn]

Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod, what is America's top state for business? CNBC has been studying and ranking states economically and dynamically annually for 20 years. Our Scott Cohn crisscrosses the nation.

[Market Analyst]

Changemaker. Well, this is the state where the cash register was invented by James Ritty.

[Scott Cohn]

He. He gives us some crazy clues we can't interpret and then reveals the big winner and its leadership.

[Joe Kernan]

I'm teary. I'm teary. And governor, thank you. It is finally happening.

[Scott Cohn]

Where is the answer? Keep listening. And traditional gaming upended by America's new obsession with prediction markets. Former Senator Dean Hiller with the gaming industry.

[Dean Heller]

If you lose, gaming wins. With prediction markets, all we're doing is putting a buyer and a seller together.

[Scott Cohn]

Plus, the latest on US Strikes against Iran. Our Megan Casella reports.

[Megan Casella]

After those attacks, missile alerts were reported in Bahrain and Qatar, both of which appeared to be targets of Iran's retaliation.

[Scott Cohn]

And how to read the tea leaves in a new era at the Federal Reserve.

[Melissa Lee]

Briefcase indicator.

[Joe Kernan]

Briefcase indicator. No one cares a briefcase anymore. You know why? Because no one has paper.

[Scott Cohn]

It is Thursday, July 9, 2026. Today's Squawk Pod with Joe Kernan and Melissa Lee starts right now.

[Dean Heller]

Stand by, Joe.

[Mike DeWine]

In three, two, one. His mic.

[Joe Kernan]

Good morning. I don't know. I can't help but smile. Melissa's here. Welcome to Squawk Box here on cnbc Live from the Net. She's smiling, sort of kind of a bemused smile. We're live from the NASDAQ market site in Times Square. This is the look of someone is facing three hours with me.

[Melissa Lee]

Wait till you see me at the end of the three hours.

[Joe Kernan]

Will it be a bigger smile or will it be just an exhausted new

[Melissa Lee]

round of strikes by the US And Iran in the Middle east, as you had mentioned? Megan Casella joins us now with the very latest. And Meghan, I guess he, President Trump sort of didn't want to answer the question on Air Force One as to whether or not this was a return to war.

[Megan Casella]

That's absolutely right, Melissa. We saw him sort of sidestep the direct asking of that question all day long yesterday. But you're right. The US launching attacks on Iran late yester it was the second straight day of attacks. US Central Command saying the strikes hit more than 90 targets, up from 80 the day before. Included military, logistics, infrastructure. And these strikes, they say, were designed to further degrade Iran's ability to attack commercial shipping in the Strait of Hormuz. After those attacks, missile alerts were reported in Bahrain and Qatar, both of which appeared to be targets of Iran's retaliation. Now, the president said the latest strikes were in retribution for Tuesday's bombing of ships by Iran. And he said if it happens again, it will get much worse. Iran's parliamentary speaker later warned on social media that if you strike, you'll get hit and that the Strait of Hormuz will only open, he says, with Iranian arrangements, not American threats. All of this coming after President Trump yesterday declared the ceasefire over, at least to him, he says. He also later in the day said that he doesn't see the two sides returning to full blown war. He also said negotiations can continue and that Iran wants to make a deal very badly, but that he isn't sure if he wants one anymore. He also said he doesn't know if Iran will honor any agreement that gets made. So it all leaves the two sides at this point somewhat in limbo. The president says the cease fire is off, the sanctions we know are back on. Both sides are exchanging threats and the MOU appears like it might be fracturing. But we're also not back to all out war. And as the market seems to reflect, we have been here, it seems before.

[Melissa Lee]

Melissa, is there any talk or any sort of, I don't know, hint that that maybe the attacks would target things like infrastructure, desalination plants, power plants? That would sort up the notch in terms of intensity.

[Megan Casella]

It would certainly up the notch in terms of intensity. It would elicit calls of potential war crimes if the US Went that route. I did think it was interesting. There was some reporting in the early hours right after the attacks, folks were trying to figure out what was hit and there was some reporting that bridges were hit. That would have been a big escalation. Centcom making clear in their statement it was military, logistics, infrastructure and they emphasized all of the targets that they hit. While there were more than the night before, it was still all military focused. Even in this new round of threats, we haven't seen the president return to those threats that we were seeing before the ceasefire was struck. Things like when he said a whole civilization will die tonight and was threatening those roads and bridges. He has had some threats on infrastructure. He did talk about yesterday the US Taking over Kharg Island, Iran's oil export hub. But he also said why would I now send in boots on the ground? He seemed like he didn't want to do that. So he is restraining himself somewhat. We're not seeing that next level of threats that we once saw.

[Melissa Lee]

All right, Megan, thank you. Reports say SK Hynix's U.S. listing is more than seven times over subscribed to have an official pricing today. The South Korean memory chip giant is selling close to 180 million American depository receipts and could raise about $25 billion, which would make it the biggest ever. SK Hynix and its memory chips occupy a critical space in the AI supply chain itself. Stock and those of other memory firms have skyrocketed over the past year and surging demand. Bloomberg says SK Hynix. The sale has attracted demand from global long only funds, tech sector focused funds and sovereign wealth funds. The company's South Korean shares gained more than 5% today.

[Joe Kernan]

Federal Reserve officials appeared split over the future of interest rates during Kevin Warshaw's first meeting in charge of the central bank. According to the latest Fed minutes, policymakers saw scenarios in which inflation could ease and allow for rate cuts or where price increases could stay elevated and point toward rate hikes. The Fed ultimately decided on June 17 to keep the benchmark rate unchanged. The so called dot plot grid of members expectations narrowly tilted toward one rate hike this year, then a cut in each of the next two years. Though Warsh didn't make a prediction of his own and plans to change this entire procedure to Fed seconds from Fed minutes at some point. Have you heard that?

[Melissa Lee]

Oh, he has a task force for that.

[Joe Kernan]

He has a task force. That's right. No, but wouldn't that make sense if we're going to get less guidance? You're not going to get. You're not going to get minutes of guidance. I mean you're going to get virtually. You're going to get just seconds like it could be a shrug.

[Dean Heller]

Could be a.

[Melissa Lee]

We're go back to like comment. Briefcase indicator.

[Joe Kernan]

The briefcase indicator. No one carries a briefcase anymore. You know why?

[Melissa Lee]

Because you have.

[Joe Kernan]

Because no one has paper anymore.

[Melissa Lee]

Except for you.

[Joe Kernan]

The truth. I am.

[Melissa Lee]

You're a hard copy kind of guy.

[Joe Kernan]

Glacial. I'm glacially moving into the future. We did get charming. Did get Doordash the other day.

[Melissa Lee]

Did you actually see the app?

[Joe Kernan]

Food was cold. I didn't. Someone did, but the food was cold. You can pay more to be the. We screwed up. You can pay more to be the first stop.

[Melissa Lee]

Right?

[Joe Kernan]

You know this.

[Melissa Lee]

Yes. I think most people who live in this day and age know that.

[Joe Kernan]

I don't live in this day and age. Who would want to do. You would look at what's happening around you.

[Melissa Lee]

Okay, Jim, Go back to whatever era you like.

[Joe Kernan]

Socialism. Does it seem like a reasonable alternative path to go ahead? But I digress.

[Melissa Lee]

Democratic candidate Graham Platner says he plans to withdraw from the Senate race in Maine following an allegation he sexually assaulted a woman in 2021. In an online video, Platner said his decision to quit the race is not an admission of guilt, instead a reflection of the reality he now faces. With support drying up and fundraisers threatening to direct money away from his campaign.

[Dean Heller]

I know that some will think it's an admission of guilt and it most certainly is not. We're not doing it because of the allegations.

[Market Analyst]

We're doing it because of the structures that are being taken away from us by those in power.

[Melissa Lee]

He said the process to replace them should be, in his words, open, transparent and Democratic. Platner's exit could make the main seat harder for Democrats to pick up in November. It's been a critical target for the party in its drive to try to retake the Senate.

[Joe Kernan]

My God, the enabling comments and videos will live forever. He's my kind of guy. Senator Warren.

[Market Analyst]

He's will be next.

[Scott Cohn]

Coming up on Squawk Pod, debating the difference between prediction markets and sports gambling. Former Nevada Senator Dean Heller is now an adviser to Kelshee.

[Dean Heller]

We do weather, we do political campaigns. We do a lot of things in sports betting. Yeah, it's pretty part of that. But keep in mind the difference between gambling and the prediction markets is that prediction markets are peer to peer.

[Melissa Lee]

One of the parties, though, can still be an algorithm. I mean, there are studies that have shown that there are bots.

[Scott Cohn]

That conversation is right after this.

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[Mike DeWine]

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[Joe Kernan]

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[Scott Cohn]

Welcome back to Squawk Pod from cnbc, where the friction between prediction markets versus gambling is playing out right on our airwaves. Here's a bit of a recent conversation from earlier this week with former New Jersey governor turned advisor to the American gaming industry, Chris Christie.

[Comcast Business Announcer]

These guys are not regulated in any way. And so what they're doing is they're out there, you know, marketing to 18 year olds, telling them this is an investment. You know, betting is not an investment, it's betting. And you know, all the predictive markets have called it sports betting at one time or another and for them it's about 90% of their business. So, you know, look, I have no problem with Kalshee or polymarket in the sports betting business, but be regulated, pay your taxes, don't market to teenagers.

[Joe Kernan]

Follow the rules. And that was New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, who is now a strategic advisor for the American Gaming Association. And joining us now to respond is Kalshee adviser Dean Heller, former Nevada Senator. We should mention that CNBC and Kalshee have a commercial relationship that includes customer acquisition and a minority investment. Senator, what do you think of what Governor Christie, of those, how would you respond? Where to start?

[Dean Heller]

Yeah, Joe, thank you very much for having me on your show. It's it's great to spend a few minutes with you and talk about some of these, some of these issues. I just watched Chris Christie's clip a couple of minutes ago myself and there's so much misinformation out there. I don't know how much Christie's getting paid to, to, to say all this stuff, but literally that clip that you just played, 90% of it was inaccurate. Uninformed or inaccurate or done on purpose, I don't know. But I've seen this play over and over again. I represented Nevada, of course, in the United States Senate. So I defended the gaming industry over the years and most of these people are my friends. But I've seen this movie play over and over again and they did the same thing. This misinformation when it came to Indian gaming, misinformation when it came to offshore betting, misinformation when it came to sports betting, misinformation when it came to the wire act, on and on and on. So this doesn't surprise me, but what Chris Christie said In that clip, 90% of it was false.

[Joe Kernan]

Both you guys are getting paid. Maybe he's getting paid more. Is that why, is that why you're, you're mad?

[Dean Heller]

I'm not upset. Like I said, gaming, they're all my friends. But I look at the innovation that's going on with these prediction markets. You know, it's a, it's a platform that's more transparent, it's more consumer friendly and it is regulated. It took Kalshee four years to get license through the cftc. So that's, and daily, you know, there, there's a watchdog watching over what these prediction markets are doing, who they're, who they're transacting with, so on and so forth. So to say that it's unregulated, flat out faults.

[Joe Kernan]

But if you were in the, let's say you're DraftKings or you know, one of the other gambling servers. It does seem like, I mean, Kalshee and others would be a really potent competitor. That seems like they didn't have to go through some of the same, I don't know, it's been very difficult for those companies to get where they are right now. Kalsha just comes in and you say that it's not what Christie say it was 89%. You say volume in sports is two thirds. Is that more accurate?

[Dean Heller]

That's about, I mean, I mean, I don't know why the states wants to regulate the commodities industry, but that's what you can do with to the prediction markets and through Kalsi. We do weather, we do political campaigns, we do a lot of things in sports betting. Yeah, it's part of that. But keep in mind the difference between gambling and the prediction markets is that prediction markets are peer to peer. In other words, with the gaming industry, if you lose, gaming wins. With prediction markets, all we're doing is putting a buyer and a seller together. And by the way, Joe, I worked in the securities industry. I was an institutional stockbroker for four for a number of years starting when I was in college. And what I did is I took buyers and I took sellers and put them together, found a price and I got a fee and that was it. I did not have a position. And this is how prediction markets work. It's peer to peer. It is not a win lose situation like it is in gaming. And gaming of course manipulates everything so that you are bound to lose. You know, ask people that lose that make $4 million but they have to lose $40 million in order to make that $4 million. That's gaming and that's fine. And if you enjoy doing that, and I hope gaming succeeds, all I'm saying is this is two different arenas and they both should get along just fine.

[Melissa Lee]

Senator, use the word manipulate. So that got my ears perked up. What are you saying is happening in sports gambling versus the predictions?

[Dean Heller]

There's a strategy. There's a strategy. When you walk into a billion dollar casino, obviously the reason that you're walking into that facility is because a lot of people have lost a lot of money. And, and there's algorithms that make sure that the house wins most of the time. And the difference between prediction markets in gaming is in gambling, if you start beating the house, they're going to show you the front door. That's not true with prediction markets. That's not true with Kelsey. We just put the buyer, we put the sellers together.

[Melissa Lee]

One of the parties though can still be an algorithm. I mean there are studies that have shown that there are bots that get in on and they get in front of. You know, it's not that retail investors are bad at predictions markets, it's just that they are slow in placing their bets because the bots get in there beforehand. Is that much different from what you're talking about?

[Dean Heller]

First of all, I'm not quite sure what you're getting into here. You're getting outside my, my sphere of knowledge when you start talking about bots and all those things. But, but we're not talking Anything different. We're not talking something different or not transparent. It's very, very transparent. That's the upside to the prediction markets is, you know that that's going on. It's very consumer friendly. Take a look at what's going on with the World cup right now. $22 billion in prediction market bets that have been placed because of the popularity of it, because it's so consumer friendly, because it's so transparent, so on and so forth. So the right place to be right now. And clearly the growth of this particular industry is playing out in front of our eyes.

[Joe Kernan]

How about the notion that, you know, states are like, wow, we were counting on this. All these tax revenues we were going to get from, from the gaming associations and now everybody's using prediction markets. Meanwhile, are you walking around in like an overcoat and dark glasses? Are you still living in Nevada, Senator?

[Dean Heller]

Like I said, the gaming industry, they're all friends of mine.

[Joe Kernan]

And you might say that they might say you're no friend of theirs anymore. Are you sure?

[Dean Heller]

Yeah, I'm not too worried about that. The gaming industry is going to be just fine. Las Vegas is going to be just fine. Yeah, they've said this over and over again. Whenever a new innovative technique comes out that it's the end of the world. Go to Las Vegas, enjoy yourself. Prediction markets, again, is a completely different industry. I think the two can get along quite well.

[Joe Kernan]

They do have beautiful structures and resorts and something's paying for that. That's, that's the, that's what people, people

[Dean Heller]

always say gaming has a lot of problems, but. But prediction markets is not their problem.

[Joe Kernan]

Okay. All right. We appreciate your time. And you know what? I like the opportunity to say Nevada over and over and over again. And for you to say it because, I mean, it's one of my biggest. When I hear someone say that, I'll correct them on air when they say, I'm not even going to say the other. The other pronunciation because I respect that as resonance.

[Dean Heller]

So you have a lot of fans in Nevada.

[Joe Kernan]

Thank you. Because of that. Anyway, thanks, Senator.

[Scott Cohn]

Coming up, what is America's top state for business in a 50 way race? CNBC crunches the numbers annually. We'll take a trip to the heart of it all next.

[Comcast Business Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information packed daily market Preview delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] Market Update podcast or find Schwab Market Update wherever you get your podcasts. Monday AI agents took over my work and I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders. Agents handle the daily grind. Now they live inside Monday.com so they see the full picture. My work, my team, the whole company. And I don't have to worry about the data. It's safe, which means I'm free to focus on the big stuff. Knowing everything runs smoothly in the background. It's completely shifted the way we work. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday.com Thursday, July 16 CNBC Sport and Boardroom join Fanatics Fest for game plan groundbreaking ideas shaping the future of sports and entertainment. Request your invite@cnbc events.com.

[Scott Cohn]

Welcome back to Squawk Pod. This week we're celebrating 20 years of a very special list here at CNBC, the top states for American business. Our own Scott Cohn. Breadcrumbs hints across CNBC's programming in the days leading up to the reveal. And we all have some fun guessing which state takes the number one spot, some consistently in the top five. Virginia, which is ranked number one saint six times since the project started in 2007. In North Carolina, which nabbed number one three times, including on last year's list. Let's get to it. Here is Joe Kernan and Melissa Lee having some fun with Scott Cohn.

[Joe Kernan]

Today is the big reveal of CNBC's top states for business. Scott Cohn joins us now with a recap of the diabolical hints. I'm watching on Couchy now. Scott and I think there might be a new leader, but I can't, I can't confirm. Are you watching on Kalshee? Because it makes sense.

[Market Analyst]

I know that there's some of that going on. I have some of that.

[Joe Kernan]

Some of that going on. I know.

[Dean Heller]

I don't know.

[Joe Kernan]

I like the way you say that. I think I see North Carolina's up there, I'm told maybe that Virginia, Virginia is doing better, I guess. I'm not sure. But Virginia always makes sense to me because it's right next to D.C. and it's almost like, you know, a cell membrane sometimes they're porous things just flow down into, you know, beneath the, and all that D.C. money, that federal, you know, whatever you want to call it, just flows into Virginia. They won last year, didn't was it the year before?

[Market Analyst]

Drive it over the Potomac and there it is. Yeah.

[Joe Kernan]

Yeah, it's right there Was it. Who was it last year, North Carolina or Virginia?

[Market Analyst]

Last year was North Carolina Virginia the year before and the year before was

[Joe Kernan]

Virginia and Virginia is it. How many times has Virginia won like

[Market Analyst]

Virginia has won six times. Virginia is our most decorated state. Virginia was where this all started in 2007 and it's been back a number of times. And a lot of it is that that dynamic that you're talking about. But also they have a lot of good things going on there. We'll see how they do. We'll see if that's where I am.

[Melissa Lee]

The hint yesterday on closing bell overtime was. What was it, Scott? We end where we began.

[Market Analyst]

So let's go over. Let's go over all five of the diabolical myths busted.

[Joe Kernan]

Maybe that's why it's going on. Okay, go ahead, Scott. Sorry, we don't want to siren song.

[Market Analyst]

Siren song was the one we did with you guys yesterday. It takes two, change maker. Stop and go. And ending where we began.

[Joe Kernan]

The diabolical Mrs. Cohn. We found out that he farms that out.

[Melissa Lee]

Oh, really? Oh, she's a diabolical.

[Market Analyst]

I was diabolical to begin with, but she's like next whole other level.

[Joe Kernan]

Hence the long successful marriage that as you try to outdo each other and diabolicity or diabolicism? I'm not sure.

[Market Analyst]

All right, 41 years.

[Joe Kernan]

Yeah. No way. Really?

[Market Analyst]

Yeah.

[Joe Kernan]

Oh, my God. You look good, Scott. You got me by a long about 41. That's awesome. That's awesome. Congrats. You could make. I still want to make 70. I gotta, I gotta start cleaning up my act or something because that's. I got about 50 to go. No, 40. 40 to go.

[Market Analyst]

We put all 50 states through their paces. 138 metrics in 10 categories of competitiveness. So after all that work, we're gonna draw this out for as long as we possibly can. Starting with those runners up for 2026, our 20th year, let the countdown begin. State number five, Minnesota. The North Star State and the home of Minnesota. Nice. With America's fourth best quality of life and a world class infrastructure. But it comes at a price. Ranking 31st for cost of doing business. Number four, Texas. The Lone Star State with America's top workforce, second best economy and access to capital. But with poor health care, high crime and a lack of inclusiveness. Texas finishes 49th for quality of life. Number three, Virginia. The old Dominion with America's second best infrastructure and fifth best education. But Virginia's economy has suffered under federal budget cuts and business costs are growing. Our Top states. Runner up, North Carolina, the Tar Heel state with America's top economy, even though the sharply divided state has struggled to pass a budget. America's third best workforce, smart and growing. But those workers pay the price with a high cost of living and a lack of worker protections is bad for quality of life. A shout out to North Carolina, which has been either, the number one or number two state in each of the last five years. And longtime viewers will note that each of those four states has been a top state at least once in the years that we've been doing this. A total of eight states have been top states for business. So will this year's state be a repeat, or will we add a ninth to the elite list of top states?

[Joe Kernan]

You're teasing me. You're making me think it's Ohio. You're making me think it's Ohio. Because they've been moving up.

[Mike DeWine]

Up.

[Joe Kernan]

It's been moving up. Lots of infrastructure. I'm from there.

[Melissa Lee]

The two O's.

[Joe Kernan]

The two O's. First and last, Right?

[Mike DeWine]

Two.

[Melissa Lee]

It takes two. Two hours difference.

[Joe Kernan]

Yeah.

[Melissa Lee]

Such a good.

[Joe Kernan]

See, now I'm really excited, Scott. And if you disappoint me, I'm not going to take that kindly. It should be, you know what I want you to do, too. This is my suggestion, and I will help you with it. Worst states for business.

[Dean Heller]

Bottom.

[Market Analyst]

Well, we do. We rank all 50 states. We rank all of them.

[Joe Kernan]

So they're already there. They're already there.

[Market Analyst]

Is a bottom.

[Joe Kernan]

But I want to play it up and I want to really. And I, you know, for Minnesota, I'm surprised that was there. You didn't even mention that might be the best state for leering centers. You didn't. They've got the, you know, almost every corner has a leering center. That's not part of the criteria for this.

[Megan Casella]

No. No.

[Melissa Lee]

Okay.

[Joe Kernan]

Avoiding me.

[Melissa Lee]

It's diabolical.

[Joe Kernan]

Yes, you are. If it's not Ohio, you're gonna be in big trouble. Come.

[Market Analyst]

We are live at the boathouse at the confluence, the confluence of the Olentangi and Scioto river in Columbus, Ohio, on a beautiful July day. In the 20 years that we have been doing this, only a handful of states have reached this level, the pinnacle of American competitiveness. And now in 2026, Ohio is among them. Now, about those hints. What was I talking about? Siren song. Well, Ohio was the home to the First Commercial Ambulance, 1865 Commercial Hospital in Cincinnati. The first police car, Akron, in 1899. And the first professional fire department, Cincinnati, in 1853. It takes two. It takes two Wright Brothers to invent the airplane. And they, of course, did that in Dayton. Changemaker. Well, this is the state where the cash register was invented by James Ritty, who was trying to prevent fraud at his saloon in Dayton. Stop and go. The first electric traffic light installed in 1914 at Euclid Avenue and 105th Street. That is in Cleveland and ending where we began. Governor, you're going to help me with this. Oh, there you go. Mike DeWine is the 70th governor of the state of Ohio. We are happy to have you with us. You are in your final year in office. Term limited. Not a bad way to go out.

[Mike DeWine]

No, it's a good way to go out. Scott, welcome to Ohio. Thank you for coming. And thank you to CNBC for ranking us number one.

[Market Analyst]

Well, you did it. And we heard you all talk about in your state of the state speech earlier this year how Ohio was strategically focused to become the go to state for business. And I wonder if you can take us through that strategy a little bit. Both what you did that led you to this, but also what didn't work and what still is sort of a work in progress.

[Mike DeWine]

I think one thing we have is what we call jobs. Ohio, where we basically privatized a number of years ago under Governor Kasich, we privatized our economic development. And when I became governor, I started working with them very, very, very closely. They're aligned with everything that we, that we do. It gives us, I think, a strategic advantage. But, you know, I think it's a cultural thing in a sense, in two respects. One, we are focused on making this a business friendly state. Tax. Taxes are low. The legislature has been great about leading in regard, in regard to that water. We have an abundance of water, but we also take care of an H2Ohio, which is our program that we started eight years ago, takes care of that water. All those things are important. I think, I think the other part about culture, if I could, is Woody Hayes, former coach of Ohio State, famous coach, said, you win with people. Ohio has great people. And we have, we have people who are very welcoming. So when people move here, let's say the company moves them here, they get here, okay, what's Ohio all about? And then a few years later, the company said, well, now you need to move on to some place. No, we don't want to leave. No one wants to leave. And, and so that, I think, is that culture. We are workers. We get up in the morning, we go to work.

[Market Analyst]

Let's Talk a little bit though about one of the big issues in this state and it's a big issue everywhere. You heard the statistics about cost. Ohio does best cost of doing business, which also means low wages and number nine for cost of living. So that's not bad, but it's cost of living related to the other states. There's an affordability issue in this state. Which one the of. One of the pieces of our data that doesn't show up necessarily at the top is you have among the highest property taxes in the country. So what are you doing about affordability and what can your successor do about affordability?

[Mike DeWine]

Well, we took action along with the legislature a few months ago in regard to the property tax. You don't hear people talking about a problem with the income tax or other taxes. You know, we have low, low income tax. We continue to see that reduced property tax is the one thing that, because we rely on property tax for a significant portion of funding our schools. And so we're moving on that. We hear the people and we've, we've taken action. We'll continue to do that in the future.

[Market Analyst]

A lot of people say that data centers are contributing to the affordability crisis. You were an early proponent of data centers. Now you've taken back or paused the tax break for data center. Developers are data centers and you have a huge one going in in Pike County. Are they contributing to the affordability crisis and what should be done about that?

[Mike DeWine]

Look, I think data, data center, Scott, are contributing to our economic development in the state. They draw in other, other companies and other business. We absolutely know that. But one thing that we have said and we are doing is to make sure that when a data center comes in, they pay their fair share when they come in. They should not be causing other people's homeowners rates, rates to go up. The other thing we told data centers is you need, you need to recycle that water. There's technology today that maybe wasn't in place a number of years ago that's now in place that we can do that.

[Market Analyst]

We have a resident Ohio person on the set back in New York. Joe,

[Joe Kernan]

for a second I told Melissa here, I'm teary, I'm teary. And governor, thank you. It's as finally happening. And Scott, they said you were at a boathouse. I thought governor knows. I'm sure Governor DeWine, you know the boathouse in Cincinnati and my, my home. That's where I thought you were first saying you could have been in Cincinnati if you wanted. I know you Know Montgomery and. But I have.

[Mike DeWine]

We could. We could. I think Scott. I think Scott was just trying to trick you. That's all it was doing. I didn't want you to really know where I was.

[Joe Kernan]

Surprised? I have a surprise for you. I don't do this for you, just anyone. Oh, I can't do it.

[Melissa Lee]

You can't pop it?

[Joe Kernan]

No, I can't. I have graffiti here.

[Melissa Lee]

Twist a little harder, Joe.

[Joe Kernan]

I'm trying. It's not working. What am I?

[Market Analyst]

Well, okay.

[Joe Kernan]

Wow. That's even worse than a premature pop or something, isn't it? Not being able.

[Melissa Lee]

It's not popping at all.

[Joe Kernan]

I need some help. Help Sick. Am I not strong enough to do this?

[Melissa Lee]

Governor, Joe is holding this, what's called a party popper.

[Joe Kernan]

Are you supposed to take off the air for you? Maybe I'm supposed to take off. Bear with me for a second. If I do it, I'm going to do it.

[Melissa Lee]

I feel like I need safety goggles.

[Market Analyst]

Joe is going to be celebrating this for. For like the next year. Governor, I want to ask you about Jobs Ohio. You mentioned that you privatized the jobs agency. And we know that this is. Of all the economic development organizations that we deal with as we're coming up with this, it is one of the most opaque and it's gotten a lot of criticism for that. I know there's a bill pending to try and make Jobs Ohio more transparent because this is taxpayer money ultimately. What do you do about that? To keep the deals coming in, but also make sure that the taxpayers are looked at.

[Mike DeWine]

Well, I think there's a happy medium that we can reach. You know, the thing, what Jobs Ohio has done is given us a real competitive advantage. And, and I want to stress this for any company that's looking where they want to go. Not only do we have all the advantages that you talked about, but we have follow through when we talk with a company, Anduril, for example, when they come into Ohio, we sat down with them, literally at the governor's residence. My wife Fran and I had them over for dinner. We had Palmer Lucky over and others. But what they said is, look, we want to be in production within a year, but we also want to have the ability to expand out quickly. And so they're now in production, almost ready to production the next few days within, I think less than a year. They want a building. We got them a building. But it's the follow up. What do we do to make sure that everything that we promised actually occurs and that coordination between Jobs Ohio and Our economic development and directly the governor's office and the governor and the lieutenant governor. All those things that follow up, I think is really the competitive advantage we have.

[Market Analyst]

One of the things that you need to be able to deliver companies quickly is workers. And I know jobs. Ohio, you just announced, is going to be spending $300 million to get those tech workers. But you may have heard that Ohio finishes 35th for workforce in our study. It's a glaring weak spot, not just because the workers aren't here, but they're not coming and many are leaving. So what do you do about that beyond that investment?

[Mike DeWine]

Again, we win with people. We have focused, and we're also in this for the long run. It's a short run, but it is the long run. We have taken on the whole area of literacy. My wife, for example, has spread the Dolly Parton library, free books in the mail for children 0 to 5. Now in 440,000 homes in the state of Ohio, we leave. We lead the country in that. We've focused on the science of reading. We've switched everybody over to that science of reading. We're going to continue to work, frankly, on that. But it's not just early childhood education. It's also, we really open things up so that a young person in high school has a lot of choices. We have more private schools in the state than virtually any other state. We have 14 great public universities. But in addition to that.

[Market Analyst]

But you're also cutting funding to your public universities. What's going on with that and what

[Mike DeWine]

do you need to do to restore that? I don't think the evidence shows we're cutting. But look, we are also focusing on the student to give the student choice. We say in Ohio, if you're in the top 5%, we don't care if you're in Ripley, Ohio, or you're in Cleveland, you're in the top 5% of your graduating high school class. You're going to get $20,000 five times four. And you can go to any, any state school for that, or you can pick a private school in the state of Ohio. We've seen the number of kids in that cohort. It was at 60% that would go to school at Ohio. Now we're into about 85% since we put that into effect. So we are focused on that school choice and giving, giving that student more assets so they can take that and go where they want to go.

[Market Analyst]

Yeah, Joe's got another question.

[Joe Kernan]

Yeah, my first.

[Mike DeWine]

Did you get it open, Joe?

[Joe Kernan]

Did it pop up? I'm going to, I'm going to try. You know, it's very, you know, to not be able to do it, it's embarrassing. But I want to talk to you about the possibility of another Saint X grad from Cincinnati. I think Vivek, Vivek Ramaswamy is a CNX grad as well. Is he destined to be governor in your, in your view? And would that, I mean, did you back him? Did you back him?

[Mike DeWine]

Yes, I back him. I support him. I think he'll be a good governor. He told me, we've had a lot of conversations that he's really focused on two big things, one's economic development and one's education. Those are very, very important. But look, it's a close race. You know, the last poll show them pretty much. Pretty much he and Amy Acton pretty much did even.

[Market Analyst]

You worked with Amy Acton.

[Mike DeWine]

I did.

[Market Analyst]

I mean, you came into office basically to Covid. And she was the.

[Mike DeWine]

Well, I picked. I picked her to be. To be. When I picked my cabinet, I picked her to be the head of the Department of Health.

[Market Analyst]

So if she's elected, I mean, the polls are absolutely dead heat right now. Is that a tragedy for Ohio, in your view?

[Mike DeWine]

Look, Ohio. One thing about Ohio, whether we've had Democrat governors or Republican governors, they are either center left, left or center right. This is a state that has stability. And that's one of the things we tell people. We are predictable. We're not going to have any big changes that's going to bother you for bringing your company in here. What we tell you today is going to continue to be true. Two years, three years, four years. We'll continue to focus on education and continue. We have to continue to focus on that environment, that good pro business environment that you have, I would say, discovered you recognized. Yep.

[Market Analyst]

Yep. Mike DeWine is the 70th governor of the state of Ohio. Again, congratulations. You can now see where your state ranks. Our full top state study is [e-mail] Ohio is America's top state for business. 2026, guys.

[Joe Kernan]

So happy. I'm so happy. Thank you. Finally. Thank you. Finally, Scott. And we're gonna have to do it manually there. I mean, there's the confetti.

[Melissa Lee]

I mean, we were worried about premature popping.

[Dean Heller]

Yeah.

[Joe Kernan]

Premature popping. Instead, I had.

[Melissa Lee]

Too late.

[Joe Kernan]

I knew you would make that joke. Instead, I had to do it manually.

[Scott Cohn]

All right. As a fellow native Ohioan. Go Buckeyes. That is squawk pod for today. Thanks to you for listening. Squawkbox is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Our thanks to Melissa Lee for sitting in today.

[Melissa Lee]

Most people who live in this day

[Joe Kernan]

and age know that I don't live in this day.

[Scott Cohn]

Tune in weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 Eastern or get the smartest takes and analysis from our TV show right into your ears when you follow Squawkpod. Wherever you get your podcasts, we'll meet you right back here tomorrow.

[Dean Heller]

We are clear. Thanks guys.

[Joe Kernan]

Guys.

[Comcast Business Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Schwab Market Update, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Join host Keith Lansford for this information packed daily market Preview, delivered in 10 minutes or less, including projected stock updates, monetary policy decisions, and key results and statistics that may impact your trading. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] MarketUpdatePodcast or find Schwab Market Update. Wherever you get your podcasts.