TikTok Makes a Deal: Fmr. TikTok CEO & Signals from Beijing 12/19/25

Summary

Squawk Pod: "TikTok Makes a Deal: Fmr. TikTok CEO & Signals from Beijing"

CNBC – December 19, 2025
Hosts: Becky Quick, Andrew Ross Sorkin
Key Guests: Kevin Mayer (Fmr. TikTok CEO), Eunice Yoon (Beijing Bureau Chief), Ray Isle (Food & Wine), Steve Liesman (CNBC Economics Reporter)

Overview

This Squawk Pod episode centers on TikTok’s breakthrough joint venture to continue US operations, following years of political scrutiny and calls for a potential ban over national security concerns. The show dives deep into the mechanics and implications of the deal, featuring candid insight from former TikTok CEO Kevin Mayer and Beijing bureau chief Eunice Yoon, as well as discussion about broader China-US tech relations and the regulatory landscape. The program then shifts to lighter territory with Ray Isle’s wine recommendations for the holidays, touching on industry trends and changing American habits.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. TikTok’s US Joint Venture Deal

Segment Start: 02:42, Main Segment: 15:31

• Deal Structure:

  • TikTok and parent ByteDance will create a new, US-based joint venture.
  • Investors Oracle, Silver Lake, and UAE’s MGX will collectively hold 50% of new TikTok US.
  • Existing (non-ByteDance) ByteDance investors retain 30%; ByteDance holds 20%.
  • Oracle will act as both investor and “security partner,” hosting US user data in its cloud.
  • The new business will be run by a majority-American board (7 members).
  • The algorithm remains owned by ByteDance but is to be licensed and retrained on US data for American users.
  • Quote – Andrew Ross Sorkin [04:02]:
    "Oracle will function as an investor and also what they're calling the security partner...with sensitive US data being stored in Oracle's US based cloud data centers."

• Regulatory & Security Compliance:

  • Kevin Mayer [16:18]:
    “It does meet that ByteDance seems to be, and Chinese ownership seems to be, below the 20% threshold. You have a very trustworthy American corporation, Oracle, running the algorithm, retraining the algorithm, managing the data flow, making sure data access is limited only to the US. Checks all the boxes.”
  • Oracle to ensure data access is strictly US-only, addressing congressional concerns.

• China’s Response & Algorithm Ownership:

  • Eunice Yoon [17:09]:
    “The signaling that we're getting in the state media is that this has Beijing's approval... That's not a sale of the algorithm. Oracle is only reviewing the algorithm, so there isn't any way that they would be able to copy or steal it.”
  • ByteDance maintains it remains TikTok’s largest shareholder, and state media echoes this narrative.
  • Mayer highlights the necessity for "face saving" language by both US and Chinese regulators.

• Implications for Future Ownership/M&A:

  • Complex ownership structure could make future sale challenging. Kevin Mayer speculates it will likely remain a joint venture, unless ByteDance eventually goes public.

• Smooth User Transition:

  • Mayer sees little technical friction for American users: background app updates will avoid any disruption.
  • Quote – Kevin Mayer [20:49]:
    “I think the app download is probably going to be a bit of a non-issue…Looks like a seamless approach. Looks like it's going to work to me.”

2. Broader Geopolitical & Financial Context

Segment Start: 05:51, 09:12

• Fed Chair Nomination Race:

  • Chris Waller had a “strong interview” with President Trump focusing on job creation (not solely on interest rate policy).
  • BlackRock’s Rick Reeder also scheduled for interviews.
  • Market-watched candidates narrowed to four, including Kevin Hassett and Kevin Warsh.
  • Notable Moment – Steve Liesman [07:24]:
    "The President was said to have been seriously impressed when informed that Governor Waller could bench press 350 pounds."
  • The process emphasizes broader economic issues rather than simply picking a loyalist.

• Book Shoutout:

  • Barack Obama lists Andrew Ross Sorkin’s book ‘1929’ among his picks for the year (05:25).

3. Wine Industry Trends and Holiday Recommendations

Segment Start: 24:27

• Tariffs and Imports:

  • Recent Supreme Court case involving wine tariffs discussed.
  • Tariffs raise costs, leading to popularity of alternative, more affordable wines not from Champagne.

• Non-Alcoholic Wine Boom & Drinking Trends:

  • Alcohol consumption is at an 80-year low (Gallup: only 54% of Americans say they drink).
  • Non-alcoholic beer and wine categories are booming.
  • Quote – Ray Isle [22:30]:
    “I get pitched a new non alcoholic wine probably several times a week, but the category's just exploding.”
  • Causes: health (GLP-1 usage), pot legalization, cost consciousness.

• Consumer Recommendations:

  • French sparkling Chenin Blanc as a champagne alternative (~$20).
  • Domestic red blends like Banshee Mordecai ($24).
  • Italian high-end (~$189) for splurging.
  • Non-alc options praised for improved taste.

• Real Estate Impact:

  • Despite falling demand, Napa and Sonoma real estate prices remain high due to brand prestige.

• Memorable Moments:

  • Lighthearted banter about drinking wine at 6:20 AM and party etiquette (“My friends are like, I'm not bringing you wine. I'll bring you a cake.” – Ray Isle [32:50]).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Kevin Mayer [16:18]:
  “You have a very trustworthy American corporation, Oracle, running the algorithm, retraining the algorithm, managing the data flow, making sure data access is limited only to the US. Checks all the boxes.”

• Eunice Yoon [17:09]:
  “The signaling that we're getting in the state media is that this has Beijing's approval…there's a lot of citation of a pro Beijing professor who is saying that this deal is in line with Chinese law.”

• Steve Liesman [07:24]:
  “The President was said to have been seriously impressed when informed that Governor Waller could bench press 350 pounds.”

• Ray Isle [24:27]:
  “Affordable is in the eye of the beholder.”

• Ray Isle [29:47]:
  “Calorie count's lower because most of the calories are alcohol…it's not really sugar. That's the issue with calories.”

• Ray Isle [32:50]:
  “People are scared to bring wine to me, which is kind of unfortunate. My friends are like, I'm not bringing you wine. I'll bring you a cake.”

---

Key Timestamps

• 02:42 – Details of TikTok's joint venture (hosts)
• 15:31 – Main TikTok discussion with Kevin Mayer & Eunice Yoon begins
• 16:18 – Mayer assesses regulatory compliance
• 17:09 – Yoon provides Beijing's perspective
• 18:17 – Mayer on handling and training the algorithm
• 21:01 – Sale/M&A speculation for TikTok US
• 05:51 – Breaking news on Fed chair interviews (Steve Liesman)
• 07:24 – Waller’s “350 pound bench press” anecdote
• 24:27 – Wine segment launches (Ray Isle)
• 28:01 – Discussion about the non-alcoholic trend
• 30:53 – Impact of demand slump; 30% of Sonoma grapes left unpicked
• 32:50 – Social impact of being a wine expert at parties

---

Tone & Flow

The episode balanced breaking news and insightful analysis on major tech-policy issues with accessible, light conversation around food, wine, and American lifestyle trends. Moments of humor and camaraderie between hosts and guests kept the episode lively (“Trying to get us a little tipsy at 6:20 in the morning.” – Andrew Ross Sorkin [24:43]).

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Conclusion

This episode delivers a layered look at the lasting impact of tech regulation, Chinese-American economic tensions, and evolving holiday consumer habits. The TikTok segment stands out for rare direct commentary from both American and Chinese perspectives, while the wine discussion offers timely, pragmatic advice paired with cultural insight.

Listeners come away with a clear understanding of the TikTok deal’s structure and implications, a peek behind the curtain at top economic policymaking, and a mix of practical and fun guidance for the holiday season.

Transcript

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[Ray Isle]

Bring in show music please.

[Katie Kramer]

Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today On Squawk Pod, TikTok's reached a deal. After years of scrutiny, the social media app avoids a ban in the United States thanks to a joint venture we kind of saw coming former TikTok CEO Kevin Mayer.

[Kevin Mayer]

I've heard that the algorithm although still owned and code being owned by China, it's going to be licensed.

[Katie Kramer]

And our China reporter Eunice Yoon.

[Eunice Yoon]

The signaling that we're getting in the state media is that this has Beijing's approval.

[Katie Kramer]

Then we dive into the world of wine with food and wine's Ray Isle tariffs, non alcoholic demand and expensive tastes.

[Ray Isle]

Affordable is in the eye of the beholder.

[Katie Kramer]

His recommendations for your holiday tables, $24 and up.

[Becky Quick]

You almost be one of the most popular party guests to have this time of year.

[Katie Kramer]

Plus the President's real life apprentice for next Fed chair continues with candidate interviews and a favorite book of hours makes it onto another high profile reading list.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Who did this? Are you responsible for this?

[Becky Quick]

I did not.

[Katie Kramer]

1929, one of Barack Obama's picks for best books of the year.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You can look at Amazon sales and you can see things moving around.

[Katie Kramer]

It's Friday, December 19th, 2025. Squawk Pod begins right now.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Stand Becky by in three, two, one.

[Becky Quick]

Good morning everybody. Welcome to Squawk Box right here on cnbc. We're live from the Nasdaq marketsite in Times Square. I'm Becky Quick along with Andrew Ross Sorkin. Joe is out today. Hello. Happy Friday everybody.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Meantime, TikTok reaching a deal to keep operating the United States. According to a memo from TikTok CEO to U.S. employees, the social media company and its parent organization ByteDance have signed agreements with three investors to form a new TikTok U.S. joint venture that so called the so called Managing investors are Oracle, Silver Lake and the United Arab Emirates firm mgx. According to the memo, they and other investors will hold 50% of the new joint venture. 30% will be held by affiliates of the existing ByteDance investor group. About 20% will be retained by ByteDance itself. In the US business will be governed by a new seven member majority American board of directors. Oracle will function as an investor and also what they're calling the security partner. With sensitive US data being stored in Oracle's US based cloud data centers. And the memo says that TikTok's algorithm will be retrained on American user data. The deal scheduled to be completed by January 22nd. So a soap opera that began probably now two and a half, about two and a half years ago. I want to say the administration and I think that there was supposed to be originally like a, what was a 75 or 150 day, 60 days maybe it was like supposed to happen almost immediately and then of course didn't and it's been prolonged.

[Becky Quick]

Here we are.

[Steve Liesman]

Here we are.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

OpenAI is reportedly looking to raise as much as $100 billion for its expansion plans which could value the company as high as ready for this $830 billion. So we're getting close to the trillion dollar mark. The Wall Street Journal saying that the earliest fundraising round would be completed at the end of the first quarter of this coming year. And then OpenAI expect to draw in financing from sovereign wealth funds as well. Earlier in the week, the information reported that OpenAI had held early talks with investors about raising funds at A$757 valuations. Those numbers keep going up. Who did this? Are you responsible for this?

[Becky Quick]

I did not.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Do I have to, I have to read this myself?

[Becky Quick]

Well, actually, let me read this.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

This is like a very.

[Becky Quick]

Okay, let, let me read this.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You can read it because I can't. I didn't know that some producer was going to do this to us.

[Becky Quick]

All right, well, this is something worth celebrating. Former President Barack Obama out with his list of favorite books from 2025 and guess who's on the list. They include Michael Lewis book who is Government, his wife Michelle Obama's book the look, and Andrew Ross Sorkin's 1929. So there you have it, folks. Barack Obama himself recommending Andrew's book. And I think it worked, right?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah, I was so surprised. I mean I, by the way, I look at his list every year, but.

[Becky Quick]

I think his list is influential and it actually has.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Oh, you can look at Amazon sales and you can see things moving around. Absolutely. So, Mr. President, former President of the.

[Becky Quick]

United States, thank you and congratulations, Andrew. We should have saved the champagne for this before they took it away.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I didn't know that. Cheers with our coffee and tea on tv. So there you go. Thank you.

[Becky Quick]

We have some breaking news on the race for the Fed chair job. Our senior economics reporter Steve Liesman joins us with the details. Really?

[Steve Liesman]

Good morning, Becky. Senior administration officials telling CNBC that Fed Governor Chris Waller had a quote, strong interview with President Trump in which the two discussed the labor market in depth and how to jumpstart job creation. The interview took place in the President's residence and concluded shortly before the President stepped to the podium and addressed the nation on the economy on national television Wednesday night. Treasury Secretary Scott Besson, Chief of Staff Susie Wall and Deputy Chief of Staff Dan Scavino also attended the interview. It's a sign Walter's candidacy is being taken seriously. Though the officials declined to say if he's the front runner or where he stood in the whole race for the Fed chair job. Cnbc also learned BlackRock's Rick Reeder will be interviewed at Mar a Lago for the Fed chair job in the last week of the year. The official said that leaves four candidates, including NEC director Kevin Hassett, the favorite for the job in the prediction markets, and former Fed governor Kevin Warsh, who been previously interviewed by the President. The officials added that Fed governor and Vice chair of Bank Super's Michele Bowman the no longer being considered for the job. Now the officials said the conversation about jobs with Waller showed criticism was misplaced that the President was seeking a candidate based on the criteria that the next Fed Chair would follow the President's orders on race. They said the President's interest in the interviews with candidates was broad based across a series of economic issues. On a lighter note, the President was said to have been seriously impressed when informed that Governor Waller could bench press 350 pounds.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You know, you always bring us the details that matter and that that's. No, I'm not saying that sarcastically. Like those are like those little details that bring inside the room.

[Steve Liesman]

I heard in awe was what I heard.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

In awe.

[Ray Isle]

In awe.

[Becky Quick]

In awe.

[Steve Liesman]

I heard that from a separate source.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

That's a lot.

[Becky Quick]

I'm actually surprised and impressed by that too.

[Steve Liesman]

Yeah. Yeah. Governor Waller has a pretty strict workout regime is my understanding.

[Becky Quick]

Okay. So all of these reports, all of this kind of what we're seeing now with these interviews.

[Steve Liesman]

Yeah.

[Becky Quick]

Is all to counter what the President himself has repeatedly said, that he had somebody in mind that he knew who it was going to be.

[Steve Liesman]

So that. And the idea that the President wanted somebody who was only going to listen to him on rates, they're definitely emphasizing that there's more interest, more discussion on broader economic topics in these interviews than just, are you going to listen to me? We continue to hear that.

[Becky Quick]

And look, but again, this is not to. To counter reporting that's been out there. This is to counter what the President himself has said.

[Steve Liesman]

Becky, I think you're hitting on something that has amused me, that sometimes the President is not his own best friend. Yeah, right. Like when he sat there with the affordability stuff in the background and he called affordability a hoax. You can imagine people around the President kind of cringing in those situations, you know, when they thought they were. Remember the great constant theme of Infrastructure Week that was going to be an infrastructure Week and never quite was. Sometimes the President is not his own best friend, but we can report with certainty that they did discuss jobs. It wasn't all about, are you going to lower rates?

[Becky Quick]

And listen to me, Is the President himself not locked in? Is that the message you're getting back, that he's not locked in on one candidate and he's still waiting and going through these interviews and we will see where he feels a month from now?

[Steve Liesman]

Yes, that is. You can read this online, Becky, and so can viewers, by the way, that this is a serious process following. Look, I was surprised a couple weeks ago when the President of Air Force once said, I know who it is. And then we were able to report that interviews were canceled. I don't know if you remember, but I guess it was back in October I was able to break the story of the process that Treasury Secretary Scott Bess had laid out.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah.

[Steve Liesman]

And it looked like one. That, by the way, is both real and symbolic. Right. Because this pick for Fed chair is something being watched down the road at Wall street, but 5,000 miles away in every financial center anywhere around the world, in Japan, not only who is picked, but the how it's picked matters a lot. It always has. I've done, I think, four or five of these processes over the past several decades.

[Becky Quick]

It just, it reminds me a lot of what we're hearing with Warner Brothers Discovery and the bids that have come in for this. Is the President actually in the camp of the Ellison bid? From Skydance? Right. Or from Paramount? Skydance. Or is he saying, no, I'm not in that camp. And if it's Netflix and it's American company, I'm good with that, too? I'm Good for whatever shows up. A lot of this is process to undo things that have been said, again, not by the press or anybody around him, but by the President himself in front of cameras.

[Steve Liesman]

That is an accurate point, Becky. And I think the other thing is that when they are now back on track with this process, the President is sitting down with these candidates and he's going to sit down with Rick Reeder. And I don't know, I think Wall.

[Becky Quick]

Street probably appreciates hearing that. I think they probably are getting a good.

[Steve Liesman]

Yeah, especially I think the Waller reader people because I think there's a lot of.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And you don't think. I mean, there are these other people who speculate. This is all not theater. But you know, that he's got the selection, but that he also wants to suggest that there is a process so that he can say that he's looked at everybody.

[Steve Liesman]

You know, Andrew, if that's the case, they're going through an awful lot of trouble. You know, you get these key people that running the U.S. government in a room to talk to a guy for several. However long. I couldn't determine how long it went for theater. I don't know.

[Becky Quick]

I'd get mad if I was wasting hours and hours of my time and I'm not the President.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah.

[Steve Liesman]

I mean, if the President wants to cut it off and it will be his choice and, and I know people around him don't know who he's going to pick yet. I do, but.

[Becky Quick]

Are you saying he doesn't know who he's going to pick?

[Steve Liesman]

I don't think, you know, I don't. I don't think so. I think he wants to meet with these people and he wants to talk with them. And look, there's another sign in all this that the President is maybe a little more concerned about what's happening in the job market. The job numbers have not been good. Right. And he needs to turn his attention to that and they need to figure that out.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I just want to go back to this. It's a 350 pound bench press, not a deadlift. This is a bench press.

[Steve Liesman]

I'm not smart enough or spend enough time in the gym to know that.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

350 pound bench press that is like really pushing weight. I'm not saying a deadlift, by the way, a deadlift of 3-50lbs is a lot too. I'm just thinking to myself, I might have just throwing around a lot of weight.

[Steve Liesman]

Now we're going to get all these texts and tweets and stuff from people who really do this stuff.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But he's like a big guy, but.

[Steve Liesman]

He'S not that big. He doesn't look as big as.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I was going to say £350. Benching.

[Steve Liesman]

No, no, that's not what impresses me.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Okay.

[Steve Liesman]

What impresses me is £350 and expertise in monetary policy and the economy and getting inflation and interest rates. Right. It's like that's what impresses.

[Becky Quick]

Like you with fishing.

[Steve Liesman]

Exactly.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Okay. And Steve, thank you, sir.

[Steve Liesman]

My pleasure.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And the nasdaq, the New York Stock Exchange will not be altering their trading hours on December 24 and 26. Are you going with Boo. They're going to. By the way, they. Because they're now they want to expand trading, you know, 24 hours a day.

[Becky Quick]

Right.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

That announcement coming after President Trump signed an executive order to close the government on those days. The state stock market will close at 1pm Eastern time on Christmas Eve and operate as a regular full trading day on the 26th. And yes, we will be with you right here on CNBC throughout all of it.

[Katie Kramer]

Tease will be next, coming up on Squawk Pod. Finally, a deal reached to onshore TikTok in the US how China is reacting and the thoughts of a longtime media executive who once ran the company. Disney and candle media vet Kevin Mayer.

[Kevin Mayer]

You have a very trustworthy American corporation, Oracle. Running the algorithm, retraining the algorithm, managing the data flow, making sure data access is limited only to the US Checks all the boxes.

[Katie Kramer]

We'll be right back.

[Kevin Mayer]

Welcome to Walgreens.

[Becky Quick]

Looking for a holiday gift?

[Strawberry Me Coach]

Sort of.

[Ray Isle]

My cousin Freddie showed up to surprise us.

[Eunice Yoon]

Oh, surprise. Sounds like a real nice surprise.

[Ray Isle]

Exactly. So now I have to get him a gift, but I haven't gotten my bonus yet. So if we can make it something really nice but also not break the bank, that'd be perfect.

[Eunice Yoon]

How about a keurig for 50% off.

[Steve Liesman]

Bingo savings all season? The holiday road is long. We're with you all the way. Walgreens offer, valid November 26 through December 27. Exclusions apply.

[Ray Isle]

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[Katie Kramer]

Did that get your attention?

[Becky Quick]

It should.

[Katie Kramer]

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[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You're watching Squawk Box on cnbc. I'm Andrew Sorkin along with Becky Quick. Joe is off today, but we got so much going on right now.

[Becky Quick]

As we mentioned earlier, TikTok CEO telling employees that its parent company ByteDance has reached an agreement to create a new US joint venture that will hold the US version of the app and that will be majority owned by US Investors Kevin Meyer. Meyer is the founder and co founder, co CEO of Candle Media. He's also the former CEO of TikTok and the former CEO of ByteDance. And CNBC's Beijing bureau chief Eunice Yun is here as well. She joins us here at the Nasdaq this morning as well. So folks, let's run through this. First of all, Kevin, what do you think? What does this do? Does it meet the security regulatory regulations that Congress laid out?

[Kevin Mayer]

Well, it seems to me in looking at the deal, from what I can tell, it does meet that ByteDance seems to be and Chinese ownership seems to be below the 20% threshold. You have a very trustworthy American corporation, Oracle, running the algorithm, retraining the algorithm, managing the data flow, making sure data access is limited to the US Data access is limited only to the US Checks, all the boxes. And I think in addition to that, you still have ByteDance helping out with the commercial operations in terms of ad sales and E commerce and the rest, that just seems like a low security risk but a good way to make sure their value is there. The top line, the bottom line are driven the right way. I think it's a good deal.

[Becky Quick]

Eunice, what do you think from the perspective of China at this point? Obviously, if this is something that solves the security issues the United States was looking for, is it a situation that the Chinese can live with too?

[Eunice Yoon]

It looks like it. I mean, there hasn't been any official Chinese government response except for a very boilerplate statement from the Foreign Ministry where they said that Beijing's position is consistent and clear. But the signaling that we're getting in the state media is that this has Beijing's approval and there's a lot of citation of a pro Beijing professor who is Saying that this deal is in line with Chinese law. And they're saying specifically that this is not a sale of the algorithm that Oracle is only reviewing. They said the algorithm so there isn't any way that they would be able to copy or steal it. And that ByteDance is the single largest shareholder in the JV and that TikTok will remain, they say, 100% owned by ByteDance.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Kevin, what do you make of that? This whole thing has revolved around the algorithm, about who owns the algorithm, who controls the algorithm, how the algorithm can work, and for so long there was an argument being made that if you didn't control the algorithm, you couldn't actually train on it in some other way and change things from a security perspective.

[Kevin Mayer]

Yeah. Well, it seems, Andrew, to me that there is some positioning going on here. The thing that, the thing that I like the least about this announcement was that there was no official Chinese government approval as part of it. But it sounds from Eunice that that is being positioned in that market. Look, I've heard that the, that the algorithm although still owned and the code being owned by China, the, it's going to be licensed and there'll be a new instance of it. The code will be transported to Oracle servers in the US and retrained. And though the code elements will be the same, the retraining is what causes the algorithm to suggest the various videos in the for you feed. So I do think the training of it, the housing of it, and the fact that the data that would be used to train the algorithm for U.S. users is only going to be captured in the U.S. and stored in the U.S. and viewable only in the U.S. i think it meets most of the requirements and I do believe, you know, there's some face saving that has to happen. The Chinese government has to have spin it a slightly different way, US government a slightly different way, but in total seems like it meets the requirements.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

How do you see the success of TikTok going forward? I mean, one of the questions at some point was whether you'd have to reload, for example, the app onto itself, you know, entirely. Whether that would actually create, you know, churn at that point, you know, in terms of bringing advertising into, into the platform in ways that doesn't exist today or, or ways to actually make more money. Because this has never been seen, interestingly, despite the valuation as some kind of shocking business.

[Kevin Mayer]

Well, look, I think the, I think a setup for success from the, from a commercial perspective, I think the ads will continue. There are ads now by the way. A fair number of ads.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

There are some. Whether. Whether that changes.

[Kevin Mayer]

Yeah, I don't think it is because also as I understand it, ByteDance will continue to oversee ad sales, the commercialization of the app in terms of E commerce and the other ways that it's optimized and monetized from the users. I do think that the app download is probably going to be a bit of a non issue. Apps are updated in background all the time on phones and mobile devices through iOS and through Google Play. I just don't think that's going to be a big friction and a moment for people to, you know, to abandon the app. I think it's going to be pretty smooth sailing is going to be interoperable as it is today across the world again with the data being encapsulated in the US Looks like a seamless approach. Looks like it's going to work to me.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I had one other question. Do you see, I mean, is it possible that this company could ever get sold to another platform player in the future? I mean when you think about sort of M and A down the line, given the way this is structured, I.

[Kevin Mayer]

Guess it's conceivable you have a bunch of different owners with different and with different goals in mind. You have, you know, Silver Lake, you have mdx, the Abu Dhabi private equity fund. You have Oracle, which is obviously a strategic investor at this point. You have the 30, 30% of ownership that's still owned by the original non China investors in ByteDance and ByteDance itself. So to get all those folks aligned on the right vision to have an M and A event in the future, relatively difficult to have a feeling, probably going to operate as a joint venture, you know, for a very, very long time and hopefully bytedance itself will go public as part as a result of this.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Hey Kevin, I know we got it, we got to go. But one last final question for you. It's sort of a curve ball. Warner Brothers discovery. You're in the media business. Who ends up with it if I.

[Kevin Mayer]

Had to make a call is a must have for Paramount probably.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Paramount, Paramount. So you think Paramount comes back with a bigger deal, bigger offer?

[Kevin Mayer]

I do.

[Becky Quick]

Eunice, we have to run. Last thing we should watch for. We've just got a few seconds left.

[Eunice Yoon]

Oh, I think that we're going to have to see exactly whether or not the Chinese government at the end of the day is going to really.

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Approval.

[Eunice Yoon]

Yeah, give that official approval.

[Becky Quick]

Eunice, thank you very much. Great to see you Kevin.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Thank you, Kevin. Thank you.

[Kevin Mayer]

Always great to be Here. Thank you.

[Katie Kramer]

Still to come on Squawk Pod. We're celebrating the holiday season with Ray Ajle, food and wine's executive wine editor. His recs for your table regardless of budget. And there's even something for guests trying to drink less.

[Ray Isle]

I get pitched a new non alcoholic wine probably several times a week, but the category's just exploding.

[Katie Kramer]

The latest in the wine biz right after this.

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[Ray Isle]

What made you confident that you could.

[Becky Quick]

Do something that hadn't been done before? I have no fear of failure.

[Katie Kramer]

Trailblazing women, changing the game.

[Eunice Yoon]

One of my favorite pieces of advice, think about what your boss's boss needs.

[Katie Kramer]

Leadership can look in many, many different forms. It really does come down to just trusting yourself.

[Eunice Yoon]

Life is short and you just gotta think big to accomplish big things.

[Katie Kramer]

Julia Boorstin hosts CNBC Changemakers and Power Players. New episodes every Tuesday. Wherever you get your podcasts, You're listening to Squawk Pod from cnbc. Here's Becky Quick.

[Becky Quick]

Christmas is less than a week away. And joining us right now with some tips on what to serve on the table this year is Ray Ajle, our old friend who's here from executive. He's the executive wine editor at Food and Wine. And Ray, you do this for us every year.

[Ray Isle]

I love doing this. This is great.

[Becky Quick]

Thanks for having me back.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Trying to get us, you know, a little tipsy at 6:20 in the morning.

[Ray Isle]

It's my job. It's what I. It's what I do for the world.

[Becky Quick]

I was actually thinking about it, how do you do your job? Because I don't know how I'm even going to take a sip of these.

[Ray Isle]

Okay, well, normally I am not up at 6, 20 doing my job, I will say that. But you know, the classic thing is if you're in the business and you're tasting, you know, I'll set up 20 shadow defops. You spit them out.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I spit, spit them out. You don't actually drink, but 20, even with the spitting has got to be the equivalent of how many glasses.

[Ray Isle]

It's, you know, it's not that much because you really do not ingest at that point and you get a little bit of osmosis.

[Becky Quick]

Your tongue gets loaded though.

[Ray Isle]

Your tongue gets loaded. Your tongue gets, you know, you get, your palate gets exhausted.

[Becky Quick]

I bet it seems like it'd be.

[Ray Isle]

Tough to go, but it's also, you know, it's a, it's a learned skill, I guess, trying 20, been working at.

[Becky Quick]

It for a while and we appreciate your expertise. Let's talk a little bit first about what's happening in the business world and how that's impacting wine. Tariffs have been the big story. In fact, you even went to the Supreme Court.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah, I did.

[Becky Quick]

To hear their arguments.

[Ray Isle]

I did because one of the plaintiffs in the case is a wine importer, actually a New York based wine importer. And I went to the tariff hearings, which is kind of great to go to the Supreme Court. It was fascinating because what I found particularly surprising was the conservative justices, particularly Gorsuch, were much more critical of the, of the administration's argument than I expected them to be.

[Becky Quick]

Maybe they like their wine and they.

[Ray Isle]

Like their wine and they're also very wary of kind of the, you know, the, the handing over of what's a congressional power, theoretically taxation, to the executive branch. There's a whole argument about are these terrorists regulatory or are they attacks on, you know, American citizens? For instance, the guy who owns this wine importing company is paying, you know, the tariffs are assessed when they, when the wine comes into the port of entry.

[Becky Quick]

The port even sells.

[Ray Isle]

He's getting nailed with some pretty, pretty steep fees as a result.

[Becky Quick]

What you've done looking through this year is looked for some homegrown versions that might be a little cheaper.

[Ray Isle]

Yeah, homegrown or alternatives in a sense. So, you know, so this first sparkling wine, Gratian and Meyer, is a sparkling wine from the Loire Valley in France. You can't touch actual champagne from champagne in France for under 50 bucks. And this is about 20. And it's a sparkling Chenin Blanc from the Loire. I think it's a terrific, great party pour. Party pourer. It's great at 6, 20 in the morning. Not great if you just brushed your teeth. Wine's like orange juice. Really not good. Afternoon.

[Becky Quick]

I haven't had any coffee yet so it's OK from some perspective.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But I'm mixing coff end right now. But as prices both going here.

[Strawberry Me Coach]

Yeah.

[Ray Isle]

As prices are going to creep up thanks to these tariffs or imported wine, you start looking for some interesting alternatives.

[Becky Quick]

No, I'm not a huge fan of champagne. I've told you that before. But this isn't bad because it's a little crispy.

[Ray Isle]

Yeah, it's a little crispy. It's a little light. It's kind of nice. You know, it's funny. One thing I, we're not trying that I did bring is non alcoholic sparkle.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

That's what I was going to ask you about this year. It feels like there is a trend afoot and I'm actually curious what it's doing to sales of alcohol writ large. Just about people who are drinking mocktails now. It's trying to drink other kinds of beverages.

[Ray Isle]

Yeah, there's been, I mean, sales are down for alcohol across, you know, across the entire category. One of the things affecting it is people not drinking. I mean there's.

[Becky Quick]

Are they smoking pot or are they just.

[Ray Isle]

Well, some of them are smoking pot, some of them are on GLP1s and they're not drinking or eating. Some of them are just cutting back because of cost. And so. But there was a Gallup poll that only 54% of Americans now drink alcohol, which is the lowest it's been in something like 80 years.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

54%.

[Ray Isle]

54%. And what is probably the lowest since Prohibition. Yes, exactly.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What's going on in terms of. You said it's across the board, but is it hitting wine more than beer? Is it hitting spirits?

[Ray Isle]

It's hitting wine pretty heavily. Not drinking alcohol affects each equally. And in fact the non alcoholic beer category is even, is growing even faster than wine. This, you know, wine, this is a sparkling rose.

[Becky Quick]

Well, crack one open.

[Ray Isle]

Non alcoholic. Yeah, sparkling rose, non alcoholic.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

This, this I can guzzle.

[Ray Isle]

With luck it won't spray all over you.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Okay, here we go.

[Ray Isle]

I love this. It's called Ramona.

[Becky Quick]

Is it good?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah, it's.

[Ray Isle]

It's pretty tasty. And it's launching right now. I get, I get pretty good.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah, I dig it.

[Ray Isle]

I mean, zero alcohol, great for 6.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

20 in the morning and you wouldn't.

[Ray Isle]

Know it Actually, no, that's what's nice about the, the best of them actually tastes, you know, tastes close to wine. Beer nailed it. A while back. The, you know, things like athletic brewing.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Unbelievable, right? It, I mean, I'm seeing taste tests. I've had people literally give me a glass of athletic brew, a glass of a real beer, and I would not know the difference. Yeah.

[Ray Isle]

And that company's gone crazily up. I mean, they've done well. This is wine. I get pitched a new non alcoholic wine probably several times a week. The category is just exploding.

[Becky Quick]

What's that like, what's the calories count?

[Ray Isle]

Calorie count is, you know, calorie count's lower because most of they want. Most of the calories are alcohol. You know, it's not really sugar. That's the issue with calories.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Do you think directionally that, you know, five years from now this number, this 54% is gonna be 50%, 40%. I mean, what happens?

[Ray Isle]

It's very weird. I don't know, 54% of Americans of age.

[Becky Quick]

It's not all Americans.

[Ray Isle]

It's not Americans. Vain. Yeah. I mean, I hope that. I don't think they're interviewing two year olds, you know, but there is definitely a kind of course correction in some degree about drinking alcohol and alternate drinking or smoking or inhaling or eating alternatives. I don't know if it's going to keep going down or not. Wine has always been a cyclical business. It goes up and down. You know, we had, you know, went down during the 2000, the 19, 2008 recession, it's gone down. Prohibition, that didn't work out very well. So we'll see. But it's something like in Sonoma county this year, 30% of the grapes went unpicked.

[Becky Quick]

Wow.

[Ray Isle]

They just fell on the ground.

[Becky Quick]

Are the winemakers running into financial trouble?

[Ray Isle]

Yeah, I think everybody's feeling pressure. That said, I've talked to some wineries that are doing fine. You know, the ones who are making really good wine and have a strong following brand and, and a brand and are doing interesting wine.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What's it doing?

[Becky Quick]

They're telling us to.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What's it doing to real estate in places like Sonoma?

[Ray Isle]

Well, right now, asking for a friend right now, prices are still high. You know, the real estate prices, Napa Sonoma are still very high. It's one reason those wines are expensive. You know, though you could, I'll just say quickly, since we're going to try these affordable red Banshee Mordecai. Affordable red, affordable red 24. Again, $24. Yeah. Again, a good one for, you know, holiday.

[Becky Quick]

A whole mishmash of a ton of different grapes, right?

[Ray Isle]

It is a mishmash of crazy grape. It's Syrah moved cabernet, several other things.

[Becky Quick]

And then it's like there's 17 different grapes in this.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So that's 24 bucks. Now we're going to the pricey stuff over here.

[Ray Isle]

We're the pricey stuff. So I brought this one because UNESCO just declared Italy's cuisine an international heritage. And as far as I'm concerned, wine is part of cuisine. So this is an Italian wine.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What's this go for?

[Ray Isle]

This is $189 a bottle.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So the funny part is I never know the difference. You know, you could give me the most expensive wine in the world, I wouldn't know the difference. You give me the $24, and I'm like, $24.

[Becky Quick]

One's a little sweeter.

[Katie Kramer]

I like it.

[Ray Isle]

It's a little sweeter, a little softer. This is a little more structured. It's from La Macchioli.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Oh, yes.

[Becky Quick]

A little hard.

[Ray Isle]

Ginzi. Amerli is a brilliant woman who makes great wines, you know, but the 24 buck wines are really good wine too. And so it kind of, you know, affordable is in the eye of the beholder.

[Becky Quick]

You must be one of the most popular party guests to have this time of year. I can imagine your dance card is full. Because I would want you at any party I was at.

[Ray Isle]

I go to a lot of parties with a lot of wine. Then the other hand is people are scared to bring wine to me, which is kind of unfortunate. My friends are like, I'm not bringing you wine.

[Eunice Yoon]

No way.

[Ray Isle]

I'll bring you a cake.

[Becky Quick]

You know, Ray, thank you for doing this for so many years.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah.

[Ray Isle]

Such a pleasure. Thank you.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Good to see you.

[Ray Isle]

Happy holidays, folks.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Absolutely. Happy holidays.

[Katie Kramer]

That's the pod for today and for the week. Cheers. Thanks for listening. Squawkbox is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick, and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Tune in weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 Eastern. Follow squawkpod wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, wherever you're listening now and get the best of of our show right into your ears every day. We'll meet you right back here on Monday. Have a great weekend.

[Ray Isle]

We are clear.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Thanks, guys. Thank you guys so much.

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