Walmart CEO Doug McMillon & Scott Jennings 12/9/25

Summary

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Squawk Pod: Walmart CEO Doug McMillon & Scott Jennings (December 9, 2025)

Episode Overview

This episode of Squawk Pod offers an in-depth conversation with departing Walmart CEO Doug McMillon, exploring his legacy, Walmart's transformation, the company's future with AI, and his views on leadership and the American economy. Also featured is Scott Jennings, CNN political commentator and author, who discusses the shifting nature of media debates and the ideology driving the current political landscape. The hosts engage in lively debate about business, politics, and the state of American capitalism, with exclusive insights from top industry figures.

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Key Discussion Points & Segment Highlights

1. Walmart’s NASDAQ Switch & Doug McMillon’s Legacy

[02:19 – 33:22]

Why Walmart Switched to NASDAQ

• Walmart is making a major move from NYSE to NASDAQ, becoming the largest public company ever to switch exchanges.
  • Doug McMillon: “The ability to participate in the NASDAQ 100 and to be associated with the brand of Nasdaq, given the progress the company's made as it relates to technology, is kind of what rose to the top.” [18:53]
• Emphasizes Walmart’s tech transformation under McMillon's leadership.

McMillon on Stepping Down

• After 11 years and 350%+ stock growth, McMillon is handing over the reins.
  • McMillon: “When you see somebody who's ready to run the next lap better and faster than you are, it's time to hand them baton and get out of the way.” [19:39]
• Successor John Furner is described as a lifelong Walmart associate with deep company roots.

Reflections on Leadership and Company Change

• McMillon credits Walmart’s culture for willingness to embrace change without losing its core values.
  • McMillon: “You can't get growth without change.” [20:50]
• The importance of succession planning is highlighted, with the board and Walton family deeply involved.
  • McMillon: “We talk about succession planning at every board meeting. About a year ago, I really started feeling like this next run… it really caused me to think that now was the right time.” [21:41]

2. Walmart’s Vision for AI and the Future of Retail

AI Transformation & Shopping Experience

• Walmart is developing an AI-native, fully personalized shopping experience.
  • McMillon: “We're building an experience that replaces the old app website that's AI native, that's more personalized, understands shopping context, presents itself in a multimedia way.” [23:49]
  • Introduces “Sports Sparky”—Walmart’s AI-driven front end launching next year.
• AI is poised to disrupt both customer interaction and internal processes (inventory, automation).

The Threat of Disintermediation

• Andrew Ross Sorkin questions if AI agents might cut out retailers.
  • McMillon: “Our strategy is build everything organically ourselves and partner with others to be at top of funnel. We’re one of the few parties that have a huge catalog and the ability to deliver it fast.” [26:19]

Adaptability & Risk Management

• McMillon keeps track of top 10 retailers each decade as a reminder: “If you don’t change, you die.” [27:16]
• Walmart’s flexibility in navigating challenges—tariffs, inflation, inventory management.

3. Walmart’s Socioeconomic Impact

Inclusive Approach to Political & Cultural Issues

• McMillon addresses avoiding divisive issues:
  • McMillon: “We serve everybody, literally everybody… our approach has been to be really practical.” [28:11]
• Points to measured, commonsense resolutions on issues like firearms, wages.

Worker Opportunity & Capitalism

• Improved employee compensation and ownership: “Over 400,000 of our associates participate in that stock purchase plan… associates have benefited from the equity appreciation.” [29:05]
• Philosophical discussion on capitalism:
  • McMillon: “If you work hard to apply yourself, you can make it here and change your life.” [29:45]

Walmart’s Current Consumer Base & Economic Pressures

• Higher-income shoppers are fueling growth; low-income shoppers are still under pressure from inflation.
  • McMillon: “We're benefiting from some share gains. People with higher income levels are shopping with us more often...There's pressure at the bottom end.” [30:48]

4. McMillon’s Next Chapter

• Plans to rest, explore, and engage in philanthropy and business: “I’ve never had a blank calendar and I’ve now seen what one looks like in a few months and it’s kind of exciting.” [33:03]

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5. Interview: Scott Jennings – The Business of Political Conversation

[35:20 - 48:34]

The Hunger for Debate in Media

• Jennings describes Americans' appetite for real-time, challenging debate on mainstream media.
  • Jennings: “I think Americans are hungry for debate and they love it.” [36:20]
• The expansion of debate on shows like CNN’s Abby Phillips Show has amplified diverse viewpoints.

Challenges of Defending Conservative Positions

• Jennings often finds himself as a “pilgrim in an inhospitable land” (media) and sees his role as necessary for balance.
  • Jennings: “I'm also one of the only pundits that comes from middle America. I live in Kentucky, not D.C. or New York.” [38:00]
  • “We talk to each other and have a few more debates, our politics will be better.” [38:47]
• He doesn’t feel compelled to “die on every hill”—willing to nudge debate without blanket defense of all party lines.

On Trump, Common Sense, and Policy

• Jennings cites Trump’s willingness to exercise executive power for the working class.
  • Jennings: “He just believes he was put here to be responsive to a coalition of working class Americans that had really no politician fighting for them in Washington, D.C.” [40:12]
  • “...most of the time conservative is common sense.” [33:38, 40:00]

The Persistence of Partisanship & the Debate Dilemma

• Discusses gridlock and lack of genuine debate in D.C.: “70% of Americans are probably in the middle... How do we get that [debate] back to a place in Washington?” [41:07]
• Jennings: “There's a demand for this in our politics and people like it and it's okay. We don't always have to agree.” [41:56]

Lasting Impact and the Future

• Jennings is cautiously optimistic about America's ability to endure political division: “This is a great time for Americans to realize…we solve our problems through debate and voting, not violence.” [46:31]
• On the future of the political landscape, he expects both parties to face internal reckonings and new leaders to emerge: “It's obvious J.D. Vance is… if he wants the nomination, he's going to get it.” [47:13]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Doug McMillon:

  • “If you don’t change, you die.” [27:16]
  • “I could start this next big set of transformations with AI, but I couldn’t finish.” [20:14]
  • “Our people make the difference.” [29:05]
  • “I've never had a blank calendar and I've now seen what one looks like in a few months and it's kind of exciting.” [33:03]

• Scott Jennings:

  • “Americans are hungry for debate and they love it.” [36:20]
  • “I was put on this earth to debate. I'm a sometimes a pilgrim in an inhospitable land.” [38:38]
  • “Most of the time conservative is common sense.” [33:38, 40:00]
  • “We solve our problems through debate and voting, not violence.” [46:31]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Start | Highlights | |-----------------------------------------|------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Walmart’s Move to NASDAQ | 02:19 | Breaking down reasoning, symbolism, company image & strategy | | Doug McMillon Interview Begins | 18:23 | Stepping down, legacy, company transformation | | Leadership and Company Culture | 20:50 | Associates, succession, board involvement | | Walmart’s AI Future | 23:49 | Personalized retail, AI app, inventory automation | | Adapting to Market Changes | 27:16 | “If you don’t change, you die.” | | Socioeconomic Impact & Employee Equity | 29:05 | Stock plan, wage increases, philosophy of opportunity | | State of the Consumer | 30:48 | Share gains, inflation, economic observations | | McMillon on His Next Steps | 33:03 | Plans for rest, philanthropy, business | | Scott Jennings Interview | 35:20 | Debate in media, defending conservative perspectives | | Trump, Common Sense & Populism | 40:00 | Executive power, working class focus | | Partisanship, Debate & Hope | 41:07 | State of U.S. discourse, voter sentiment | | Media, Radio and Political Futures | 45:44 | Paul Harvey, Rush Limbaugh inspiration, party leadership changes | | Who Leads Next for GOP & Democrats? | 47:03 | J.D. Vance, Rubio, speculation on Democrats |

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Summary Takeaways

• Walmart’s Transformation: Doug McMillon reflects on a decade-plus of cultural and tech-driven change, positioning Walmart as not just a retailer but a tech-forward company ready for the AI age.
• Leadership & Transition: McMillon’s humility and focus on succession illustrate best practices for large organizations.
• AI in Retail: Walmart is poised for another transformation with AI at the core, from customer experience to logistics.
• Pragmatism in Corporate Culture: Walmart navigates political and cultural minefields with a practical, inclusive approach—“serve everybody.”
• Media & Politics: Scott Jennings unpacks why Americans crave genuine political debate, and how new media vehicles can elevate substantive conversation over partisan echo chambers.
• Future Outlook: Both interviews blend optimism with realism—adaptation, debate, and openness to new ideas are vital for resilience in business, politics, and society.

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Concluding Note

This episode delivers a rich blend of executive insight, business transformation lessons, commentary on technology’s impact, and a candid exploration of the evolving U.S. media and political landscape. Both Doug McMillon and Scott Jennings offer perspectives that highlight the value of adaptability, debate, and practical leadership for reaching the next phase—whether in retail or the nation's capital.

Transcript

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[Becky Quick]

Bring in show music, please.

[Joe Kernan]

Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on squawk pod, Doug McMillan departing chief executive of Walmart. On the economy and consumer habits.

[Becky Quick]

We're benefiting from some share gains. People with higher income levels are shopping with us more often and have been for a while.

[Joe Kernan]

Plus what he has planned after leaving the country's largest brick and mortar retailer.

[Becky Quick]

I've never had a blank calendar and I've now seen what one looks like in a few months and it's kind of exciting.

[Joe Kernan]

Then conservative cable news raconteur Scott Jennings on the business of conversation in today's media.

[Scott Jennings]

I think Americans are hungry for debate and they love it.

[Joe Kernan]

And yes, we are still talking about the fight for Warner Brothers Discovery.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Having talked to people around the transaction on the Warner side, their view was Netflix was a more stable buyer after.

[Joe Kernan]

Paramount's David Ellison put in a hostile bid for the legacy entertainment assets.

[Joe Kernen]

Willy Wonka would. Daddy, I want this. I want it now.

[Becky Quick]

How do you know it's not Larry Ellison himself saying I want this?

[Joe Kernen]

Could be.

[Joe Kernan]

It's Tuesday, December 9, 2025. Squawk Pod begins right now.

[Becky Quick]

Stand Becky by in three, two, one. Fuel, please.

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Squawk Box right here on cnbc. We're live from the NASDAQ market site in Times Square. I'm Becky Quick along with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Walmart will begin trading on the NASDAQ today. It's going to become the largest ever public company to switch its listing to a different stock exchange. It's been trading on the NYSE since 1972, I believe. Massive company, a big switch. And we're Going to hear a lot more about this coming up.

[Joe Kernen]

Welcome home.

[Becky Quick]

Welcome home to the nasdaq. By the way, the blue, blue carpet is already rolled out up front.

[Joe Kernen]

Yes.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I was told not to walk on it as I was walking in.

[Becky Quick]

Those are for VIPs only.

[Joe Kernen]

I threw a hissy fit because I was coming in and I said this should be red.

[Becky Quick]

No, Walmart's blue.

[Joe Kernen]

No, for me.

[Becky Quick]

Oh, no, for you.

[Joe Kernen]

Yeah.

[Becky Quick]

No, but Walmart's blue the next day.

[Joe Kernen]

Walmart is blue. Yes. So that's, I walked on it, but while they were trying to adjust it too. Is that what you did?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

No, I had it in the security. They said, you said you can't walk on that carpet. I said, how am I going to get inside the building?

[Becky Quick]

Anyway, they're rolling out the blue carpet, getting them. Welcome ready for Walmart. We've got a lot more to talk about with this. And in the next hour we'll actually be joined by CEO Doug McMillan. He is set to hand over the reins to John Furner for Walmart on February 1st. It's been a long time coming. Stock's done an unbelievable job under Doug's leadership. It's up by more than 330%.

[Joe Kernen]

And it's not just like with everything else because many other competitors, retailers have not done this.

[Becky Quick]

The stocks actually trade.

[Joe Kernen]

I was looking at Procter and Gamble yesterday. A lot of the major companies have.

[Becky Quick]

Not done, oh, I should say since he took over 356 points percent.

[Joe Kernen]

That's what the guy was saying. He said someone came in and said, don't you know who I am? When they were trying to walk on the blue carpet. Was that you? Did you really?

[Becky Quick]

No, that was you as they were trying to adjust the carpet and you were stomping on it.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

President Trump is saying Nvidia is now going to be allowed to ship its H200A1 chips to approved customers in China and other countries on the condition that the US gets a 25% cut of sales. In a post on Truth Social, President saying China's President Xi Jinping responded positively to that idea. He also said the same conditions will apply to chips from AMD, intel and other unnamed American companies. The H200 is not Nvidia's best chip but is higher performing than the chips that the company currently is allowed to sell in China. And President Trump saying that higher grade semiconductors like Nvidia's Blackwell and the yet to be released Rubin are not part of this deal. In a statement to CNBC, an Nvidia spokesperson saying, quote, offering H200 to approved commercial customers vetted by the Department of Commerce strikes a thoughtful balance that is great for America.

[Becky Quick]

And I guess if you want to look at all of the different angles of this, this is basically the constant back and forth that this administration is dealing with with President Trump being either the commander in chief and defender of the nation or the chief CEO of the country. Part of these are done on business deals, part of these are done on safety and defense. And I think there's a lot of questions that can be raised on both sides. This kicked off when he started his move for tariffs. People thought, okay, this is a business deal. But then it does raise national security issues. When you' to shake up the relationship.

[Joe Kernen]

With the largest industrial policy head again, if you can, if you can just suspend any worries about state run enterprise and slip sliding into some type of industrial policy, there's a way you can say great to get 25% and we want to tax companies. You know, everybody wants to tax companies that doesn't like this. They, they're the same people that wish we could raise the corporate tax rate. So you know, it's, it's a different way and it's not, obviously it's not the same, but it's weird. It is weird.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I think the issue is if it wasn't.

Being done in the context of the national security issue that you could take that off the table.

[Joe Kernen]

No, it still wouldn't be okay. With a purist. Well, with most concerns, sure wouldn't be.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But I'm just saying what makes this uniquely complicated is there's a group of people in Washington and beyond that think that these chips should not be allowed to be sold. And by the way, prior to this it wasn't allowed to be sold and it appears now it's only allowed to be sold because somebody's take the government gets to take a quote vig. Well, that's the.

[Becky Quick]

It does not include Blackwell and.

[Joe Kernen]

But then you'd say that we're going to use the proceeds to toughen up our defenses and further our own AI dominance. If we have that right now. And you'd say that's what we're going to use it for, is to try to compete more effectively.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You're telling me that the revenue.

[Joe Kernen]

No, I'm not saying to compete better. But, but how is it. You could say that we're going to use it to. The government could say we're going to use that to increase security in our fight against China, but they haven't. Well, we don't know what, but I.

[Becky Quick]

Will say the money yet there's the alternate view that Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang and others have pushed. That is if we are not selling any of our chips to China, we are going to lose out in the long term on this entire.

Relevance of American technology. That that's their other concern that goes along with it. Now there is a movement afoot in Congress to say that you can't sell any. There's a co sponsored bipartisan bill that would say you can't sell any of these chips. I don't know what kind of success rate it has. There's potential for that to move through Congress. In the meantime, from the Nvidia perspective, Nvidia had said that they wrote China sales to a zero. So any upside they get from this would be secure upside for Nvidia or the other chips makers. But there's a lot of confusion around it. There's a lot of questions about what China or what Congress may or may not do. And then by the way, there's the question of whether China even wants these chips because when they, when they said that they could have the H20 chips, Xi Jinping was like, yeah, no thanks, we don't want them.

[Joe Kernen]

Well, we're running as fast as we can as a country to try and stay ahead of China. But sooner or later does two and a half billion people beat 400 million or whatever it is? I mean we're trying to. We've got a lot of innovation, we've got very talented people. We have a lot of talented people from China here, thank God. But I don't know, at some point do we lose domino. I mean look at history. Usually only last couple of hundred years as the top.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Now I thought you told me about American exceptionalism.

[Joe Kernen]

I'm telling you that. But it's against two and a half billion very talented hard working people.

I don't know whether this was a no brainer but from the very beginning, where's Paramount? Where's Ellison? What's going to happen? This was never, I don't think this was ever in doubt when you got a father. We're hearing from Netflix management about the company's deal for the film studio and streaming assets of Warner Brothers Discovery. Here's Netflix co CEO Ted Sarandos at a UBS conference yesterday.

[Scott Jennings]

We have a deal done and we.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Are incredibly happy with the deal.

[Joe Kernen]

We think it's great for our shareholders, we think it's great for, for consumers.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We think it's a great way to.

[Scott Jennings]

Create and protect jobs in the entertainment industry. We're super confident we're going to get it across the line and finish.

[Joe Kernen]

After CNBC's interview with Paramount, Skydance CEO David Ellison after his company launched a hostile bid to buy all of Warner Brothers Discovery. Here's Ellison talking about his, what he's talking about with his communications that he had with CEO David Zaslav.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The last hat with David Zaslav is I made it incredibly clear in text message this is all going to be public for everybody to see that we addressed all of the issues that they asked for and very specifically that our offer was not best and final. And so when we literally delivered A$30 per share all cash offer, we never heard back.

[Joe Kernen]

In speaking yesterday about the fight for Warner Brothers Discovery, President Trump said he'd like to see the competing companies market percentages. Like there's different things to look at, obviously streaming and everything else. He said none of the key players involved are particularly good friends of his, but he's known to be close with Ellison's father, Oracle co founder Larry Ellison. Paramount also revealing in an SEC filing its bid is being backed in part by Trump's son in law, Jared Kushner.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Makes this whole thing that much more complicated.

[Joe Kernen]

Yeah, and Saudis and Middle east money.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And I think, would CFIUS actually review this? They're trying to make it so that CFIUS won't review it by saying that they're going to be passive investors and all of this. I mean, I think a lot of.

[Joe Kernen]

People, the home of Casablanca and other, you know, distorted American franchises, they don't want it going to Netflix, which doesn't, you know, might not even put it in theaters. But then on, on the other hand, they're worried about, you know, barely Weiss for me, that it just put that back on the table, which I just think is so good.

[Becky Quick]

Consolidation, consolidation.

[Joe Kernen]

Weiss could be running cnn, but consolidation.

[Becky Quick]

In the entertainment industry is bad for Hollywood. You know, fewer numbers of these buyers to be around.

[Joe Kernen]

This is just, this is with.

[Becky Quick]

And, and by the way they've all talked, Paramount, Skydex has talked about consolidation too. It was very interesting what he said to David Faber yesterday.

[Joe Kernen]

Either Comcast or Paramount, you can imagine, would have had great center cost cutting synergies, maybe even more Netflix.

[Becky Quick]

You were trying to look for cheaper ways to do this and more cost effective ways to do these things. But what Ellison said to Faber yesterday was pretty interesting from perspective. He said he had a text that he had sent directly to Zaslav, David Zaslav, saying $30 and we're backing this up, basically. The Ellison family is backing this up. David did push him on that, on some points, but also said that this is not our best and final offer.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Right. Which also suggests if that's true.

What kind of bid are we ultimately going to get?

[Joe Kernen]

Correct? Paramount.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

That's why this is not the end.

[Becky Quick]

The stock was up 9%.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Having said that, they still had to ante up an extra 2.2.8 billion. Just even play in this game this.

[Joe Kernen]

Time, which isn't that much when you're talking $80 billion.

[Becky Quick]

Well, he was saying, I think $18 billion more in cash was his point on this, because their bid is all cash.

[Joe Kernen]

He's also saying that if you try to value the discovery stub, those things, that there's no way it's two to four dollars. And he used David Ellison used Versant's cash flow and valuation to say that it's worth a dollar at most. So if you add it all on, it doesn't even get to 30, he's saying. But for whatever reason, but I'm thinking.

[Becky Quick]

About, you can't take Netflix stock and say that that's a zero, you know, zero that out.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And that's collard also. Right?

[Joe Kernen]

It is colored collard, but at this point I prefer cash. I'd love my 30. And it's probably more that it could be 30, 35 in either way.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

35.

[Becky Quick]

You probably just gave them a heart attack.

[Joe Kernen]

I know, but, but, but Zaslav is looking like now he's just like, boo, doo, doo, doo. I mean, I know he'd like to stay with Netflix and be Warner Brothers studio chairman if he can get a.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Real auction going, which is clearly what's now happening. It's working.

[Joe Kernen]

Yeah, it's like it's working more.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It is, it's working. Part of though, the rationale, having talked to people around the transaction on the Warner side, was that their view was they thought that Netflix was a more stable buyer, meaning somebody who's going to close the deal to $400 billion company that they can, can pay the money. And not that the Ellison's, by the way, which have an extraordinary amount of money, can't, but that you're. It's different when you're dealing with a big sort of corporate buyer on one end and when you're dealing with a personal buyer on the other. Someone has said to me, you know, are you, are we, are we doing business with Elon Musk? In which case we could be in litigation for the rest of our lives to get, you know, either the breakup feedback or if something goes wrong. It's just, it's your. It's two different animals.

[Becky Quick]

Well, you probably need more than a text to guarantee that you're backing this.

Felony.

[Joe Kernen]

That it's like Verushka and Willy Wonka. Would Daddy, I want this. I want it now. Went back to. That's terrible. Went back to Daddy, I want this.

[Scott Jennings]

It would be cool.

[Becky Quick]

How do you know it's not. How do you know it's not Larry Ellison himself saying, I want this?

[Joe Kernen]

Could be, but that doesn't.

[Becky Quick]

Wait a second.

[Joe Kernen]

It also for me harkened back a little bit to Edgar Bronfman Jr. Who wanted to get into that business. I would like to be in charge of Paramount and Warner Brothers. I would love that. I'd be, you know, going to Chasen's. I don't know. That might be closed by now, but I'd be, I'd be the Holly, the Bel Air Hotel. I'd be strutting around. Would you? Well, you would love that. You do that now you can have a book deal, and I mean a movie deal. You're already there.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Got to get, got to get.

[Joe Kernen]

You got a nice tux. Do you have a nice tux for the Academy Awards?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I've been amortizing my tux for many years now. And if you.

[Becky Quick]

He has.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

He went for years ago.

[Joe Kernen]

Did you give a speech?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

No, we didn't win. You're talking about at the Oscars?

[Joe Kernen]

Yeah. I want to hear your speech to see if you mentioned Joe and Becky. That's what I want to see.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I've given a whole bunch of speeches recently where you guys have been involved in the 30th anniversary.

[Becky Quick]

Cheese will be next.

[Joe Kernan]

Coming up next on squawk pod, Walmart CEO Doug McMillan joins us in a rare on set appearance. He is set to leave the job early in the new year as artificial intelligence joins deals in the Walmart aisles.

[Becky Quick]

If you think about all the things that people love about shopping, we have the opportunity to increase those and invent new ways to shop. If you're browsing for fun, it may look more like TikTok. If you're replenishing, it looks more efficient. If you're searching for one item, it's helpful in precision. If you're planning an event like a birthday party or something, it's better at that.

[Joe Kernan]

We'll be right back.

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[Joe Kernan]

Welcome back. This is Squawk Pod.

[Becky Quick]

Here's Becky Quick up and Becky Q.

All right, welcome back, everybody. Wal Mart ringing the opening bell today at the NASDAQ as the company transitions its shares to this exchange from the nyse. Joining us right now ahead of his departure from his role heading the company in January is Doug McMillan. He is Walmart CEO. And Doug, thank you for joining us this morning.

Good morning.

We got so much to talk about, not a lot of time. So let's jump in right away with why you're making this move to the nasdaq. That's a really big deal. It's the biggest company that's ever moved to the NASDAQ from the nyse. What happened?

Yeah, there are a lot of factors. The team went through a rigorous process to sort that out. I think things like the cost to list and trading, execution, things like that matter. But in this particular Instance, the ability to participate in the NASDAQ 100 and to be associated with the. The brand of Nasdaq, given the progress the company's made as it relates to technology, is kind of what rose to the top. Walmart's changed a lot, and we're trying to make sure everybody knows it.

Walmart's changed a lot under your leadership over the last 11 years. It has been a really huge transformation, I'd say, in the company. The shares up 350 plus percent, I think 355% since you took over there.

Why are you stepping down now? Why are you leaving? You're not even 60 years old yet.

I don't know if I'm young or I'm old. I get a little confused about that.

[Scott Jennings]

From day to day.

[Becky Quick]

But I think when, when you see somebody. Thank you. When you see somebody who's ready to run the next lap better and faster than you are, it's time to hand them baton and get out of the way and just cheerlead. And that's what's happening. I had a great opportunity to do this job for a long time, and I'd like to see that happen for the next person. Except for what John's ready to do it.

[Joe Kernen]

Wisdom and experience, though, right? I know he might run faster, but.

[Becky Quick]

John's been with the company for more than 30 years. He's eight years younger than. Than I am, but he's done everything. Yeah.

[Joe Kernen]

You want to. Do you want to live? I guess probably that might help.

[Becky Quick]

Living sounds like a good idea, but I was loving what I was doing. I mean, this is a great situation. It's really ideal. John's done all the jobs in the company. Merchant, operator, sourcing, worked in all three segments. His dad worked at the company. He met Sam Walton when he was a kid. He met his wife at Walmart, loves the company, loves our associates, and has a vision for the future. And with what's happening with AI, you know, I could start this next big set of transformations with AI, but I couldn't finish.

Well, that's really interesting. I mean, this is the only job. He sounds very much like he's got the same CV as you. You started out, I think 1984 was your first job with the company, and that was a summer job where you were unloading trucks at the warehouse. But you've been there your entire career, too.

Yeah, there's a bunch of us, like, if you walk the hallways and you met the people in our stores, you find a bunch of associates that have been there. For a long time that really care about the business and also willing to change. You know, when I look back on what's happened on this decade plus, one of the things I'm really proud of is that our associates at store level, Sam's Club, distribution centers, home office, leadership, they've all stayed true to the purpose, values and culture of the company. But they've been willing to change in a lot of different ways. And it's worked. You can't get growth without change.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

When did you start thinking about this? And it's so interesting because there are a bunch of CEOs, we don't need to say their names, who like to stay at the party. And even when they leave, they like to come back to the party. But for some reason, we've known each other a while. I don't think that's in your DNA. What do you think that's about? So I'm trying to understand, sort of as you were thinking, as you said, 59, was it the last couple of years? Were you thinking, okay, maybe I.

[Becky Quick]

Last year or so in particular. But you know, we've got a great board and Greg Penner's our chairman. He does a fantastic job. An advantage to have the Walton family involved in our business. And we talk about succession planning at every board meeting. And about a year ago, I really started feeling like this next run, you could see what Agentic Commerce was going to look like, the vision for AI Shopping. And I started thinking about everything that needs to happen over the next few years. And it really caused me to think that now was the right time.

[Joe Kernen]

CEOs make how many decisions a day would you say? Small? Large? Thousands? In a week?

[Becky Quick]

A lot.

[Joe Kernen]

How many employees? A million?

[Becky Quick]

2.1 million.

[Joe Kernen]

2.1 million. So one guy, and we hear all the time, a CEO, what. What difference can he, can he really make? I mean, I go back in time. Remember GE and Westinghouse were the same company at one point. One got Welch, one got some other guy, and there's a Target Wal Mart chart. And I don't want to pick on Target. But you weren't obviously the same company, but you had some of the same decisions that you had to make. Look at the difference that a CEO can make it a company. Are you going to write a book or something?

[FedEx Announcer]

What was the.

[Becky Quick]

I drew an ace off the deck. You know, I came to see you guys early after taking this role, and we made a big wage increase. We invested in price. We started getting after E Commerce. We invested in technology and we had the board supporting us in doing all that. Not everybody has that opportunity. It took the operating income percentage of the company down for a sustained period of time and Walmart, and it's taken us a while to come back down.

And you had the support, not just of the board, but also the world. Not everybody has that, but that conviction and that ability to see through it. Everybody's copied your playbook since then. You were the first to do it, but everybody got around to kind of following that and saying that's the right way to do it.

It's been a lot of fun to do it with all these people, you know, at this moment in time. As I look back on it, all the memories of all the hard stuff that we did together and the moments when we were really doubted, it's kind of. That's what makes it so sweet right now.

You've mentioned twice already the AI change that's coming to retail and how that there are huge things that have to happen over the next couple of years. What are those things? What are you seeing?

It's really exciting to think about what can happen. If you think about all the things that people love about shopping, we have the opportunity to increase those and invent new ways to shop. And we have the opportunity to reduce some of the friction like we've never done before, to take out the things that people don't enjoy doing. We're building an experience that replaces the old app website that's AI native, that's more personalized, understands shopping context, presents itself in a multimedia way. If you're browsing for fun, it may look more like TikTok. If you're replenishing, it looks more efficient. If you're searching for one item, it's helpful in precision. If you're planning an event like a birthday party or something, it's better at that. It'll use video, there'll be creators involved. And we've started building that product today. We call it Sports Sparky and it will grow as we go into the next year. That's going to be a different front end for customers. Then think about all the stuff that's going to happen with better inventory management. All these investments we've been making in physical automation paired with data and increasingly intelligent software power, but it's not getting harder. Change the whole system.

[Joe Kernen]

That's not what it is. There's not clouds on the horizon. And I love John Mueller and he did an exit interview here on P and G. But P and G, since he announced that he's leaving, we didn't understand. He's a young guy too. PMG has I just, I wonder if there was something to the decision that I don't need this anymore or something. There's no storm clouds, nothing in the future of.

[Becky Quick]

No, not in my case. And I think what you're going to see from the Wal Mart team is they're just going to keep scaling what we've already started, build some new stuff on top and then use AI to transform it all.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Do you have any fear that I will ultimately disintermediate.

A Walmart or frankly an Amazon or whomever? Meaning I'll just have a relationship either with this phone or some new device that Sam Altman makes and I'll say I need toilet paper or whatever it is and they will. My agent will go off and try to find whatever the product batteries and but, but it won't necessarily care where it's buying it. It's just going to find the quickest one, the cheapest, whatever it is and that, that and the interface won't even be with a Wal Mart or a store down the corner or whatever we.

[Becky Quick]

Think the things that have always mattered will still matter in that future price. Broad assortment, great experience buying it. Whether it's E commerce or stores and trust those parties, whether it's OpenAI or it's other hyperscalers still have to get the order fulfilled.

[Joe Kernen]

Right.

[Becky Quick]

And it is more efficient to move a basket than it is in each. And there are complexities in how you do that. And having stores and clubs and distribution centers and now more fulfillment centers closer to people enable us to be able to deliver big baskets fast. Our delivery speed is going way up. So our strategy is build everything organically ourselves and partner with others to be at top of funnel. And we'll work out the economics, we'll work out the data exchange in a way where that experience can be better. In the old world, in the Google search world, we didn't quite get it done where it was magical. You couldn't get to one click through Google to buy at Walmart. But with the new situation, I think people are beginning to understand that's necessary. And we're one of the few parties that have a huge catalog and the ability to deliver it fast.

That has been your hallmark, I would say, throughout your entire reign as CEO. I remember years ago talking to you and you kind of pulled your phone out and you said I keep a list of the top 10 retailers decade by decade to remind me that if we don't change, if we don't Evolve, we die. You still have that? You still follow it?

Yeah, yeah. I was looking at it yesterday. Our team here in town, we have a fashion office here. We were talking about the fact that if you don't change, you die. And that's the reality of business in general. But it's certainly the case in retail and I find that really motivating. I mean, one of the things I have loved about this experience that I've had is you've got a big team sport and a scoreboard and competitors, and that's made it a lot of fun.

[Joe Kernen]

I can remember a conversation that we had and it was after a gun incident in with Dick's Sporting Goods. And I remember you said, we're going to satisfy our customers and what they need. And I don't think you fell for some of the cultural issues that some of your competitors fell for. The wokeness, for lack of a better term. And I think I can think about light, I can think of tuck at whatever those things were at Target that hurt those companies. I think you've, I think you've always managed from a Midwest or an Arkansas maybe point of view. Am I wrong there, that you didn't embrace some of that stuff?

[Becky Quick]

We serve everybody, like literally everybody, every point of view, politically and otherwise, and we want to serve everybody. So our approach has been to be really practical. And whether it's the firearm decision, which we've talked about a lot, or some of the other decisions, pausing to think about how everyone feels about it and then explaining to everyone a really common sense, practical solution to whatever the issue is, has been what we've tried to do.

[Joe Kernen]

I mean, you stepped up with the wage issue. And at the time I didn't know if it was, if it was right, if it was, you know, if it was pandering to the wrong. But there were times when I argued, look, Walmart shareholders for 30 years have been totally enriched. It's been great for the employees as well. But if you take a couple of basis points off margins to help with wage increase increases, couldn't that come back and actually end up coming back in spades? And that's exactly what the work.

[Becky Quick]

We always say, our people make the difference. And not only did we increase wages and have continued to, but we've got a cash bonus and a 401k and an associate stock purchase plan. And over 400,000 of our associates participate in that stock purchase plan where the company pluses them up. So our associates have benefited from the equity appreciation.

Managers can make over $400,000 managers do.

Really well, as they should. So the truck drivers, one of the truck drivers is going to ring the bell this morning.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So here's, here's a philosophical question for you as we all have these debates, at least I don't, I don't know if they're real or not, but questions about capitalism and socialism and this and that. Do you think that the Walmart employee looks and says this is working?

[Becky Quick]

I do, because there's opportunity. You know, I just, as an American, I get frustrated with the debate that happens sometimes about which system is best. I still see people who come from all over the world in some cases and they get a job at Walmart and they end up being a store manager. It changes their life. I mean, literally changes their life. From a wealth point of view, they're a better. If you work hard to apply yourself, you can make it here and change.

[Joe Kernen]

The pattern Sam built in his lifetime. I mean, when did he die?

[Becky Quick]

I mean, 1992.

[Joe Kernen]

So it's been a while. But I used to just marvel at this guy. I marveled at what he built, what one man built in a lifetime.

[Becky Quick]

Dad's only the fifth CEO.

[Joe Kernen]

Yeah. For the American dream, tradition. That's why I think it's, we got.

[Becky Quick]

To keep that going. I think part of the trick is figuring out what you want to keep the same, what you want to strengthen our purpose, which Sam gave us, our values and culture, and then be willing to change anything else.

Doug, we know you have to go. You're ringing the bell and you've got some things you have to do upstairs. But very quickly, can you just give us kind of a heads up of where the consumer is right now? What do you see? You all have talked about how you've seen people who make $100,000 or more coming into the stores. What do you see at the lower end?

Yeah, as we said when we released it, released our third quarter results, it's been really consistent for us. Now we're benefiting from some share gains. People with higher income levels are shopping with us more often and have been for a while. There's pressure at the bottom end. Inflation being low single digit right now helps a little bit, but it's on years of price inflation in some categories. Gas prices being low is helpful right now. So people are behaving pretty consistently, but there's pressure for those at lower income levels.

Yeah, I think in the store, you've seen 1.3% inflation versus closer to 3% for the rest of the nation. But that grocery store inflation 25% over the last five years.

That's a sticky problem. Right now We've got over 7,000 rollbacks in Walmart US and our team has done a fantastic job of figuring out what to change, whether it's in food or it's in general merchandise to change, try and keep prices down. In the apparel office yesterday they were giving, giving us examples of how we've been able to improve quality, change country of origin, move a factory and end up with a better outcome. Lots of flexibility on their part and they managed our inventory so well. You know, when this year started and we were facing this tariff situation, the biggest concern I had is that we would get over inventoried. But they've navigated that our merchants have so well.

[Joe Kernen]

I mean, with your margins, what are they now?

[Becky Quick]

It's tight, like 4% ish.

[Joe Kernen]

905 billion. I hadn't looked at it in a while. You're going to be a trillion dollar retailer. That's just staggering.

That you can do that.

[Becky Quick]

The business model's changed. With income from membership and advertising and some of the other things we're building, the composition of the income statement looks different.

Doug, you have been a phenomenal leader, not just for Walmart, but I think what you have done at the business roundtable and kind of speaking out for, for American values. And we want to thank you for that. I can't wait to see your next chapter. What are you going to do next?

I don't know. I'm going to show you what I'm supposed to do.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We think it's going to be big.

[Joe Kernen]

You don't mean CNBC contributor?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, I mean, you know, I know you work on.

[Becky Quick]

You don't want to say that much.

[Joe Kernen]

To that kind of visibility.

[Becky Quick]

I don't have that much to say. I'll leave it to you. Seriously, I've learned a lot from you guys over the years. In the pandemic in particular, you were very helpful to keep us all educated and I'm grateful for the role you guys play every day.

But you're thinking about what to do next. You're not going to do anything for a little while.

It'll be some combination of business and philanthropic stuff. But I'm going to take a few months. I've never had a blank calendar and I've now seen what one looks like in a few months and it's kind of exciting. Then we'll see.

Well, we hope you enjoy your time off, you and Shelley both, and we can't wait to see what you do next. We Hope you come back again soon.

Thanks.

Thank you, Doug. We appreciate it.

[Joe Kernan]

Next on Squawkpot, what the Supreme Court oral arguments about the president's attempt to fire a Democratic member of the Federal Trade Commission. Tell us about the whole Trump agenda. And commentator and author Scott Jennings on the president's message.

[Scott Jennings]

I asked him once, are you conservative or are you common sense? And he said, most of the time, conservative is common sense.

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What made.

[Joe Kernen]

You confident that you could do something.

[Becky Quick]

That hadn't been done before? I have no fear of failure.

[Julia Boorstin]

Trailblazing women, changing the game.

[Becky Quick]

One of my favorite pieces of advice.

[Julia Boorstin]

Think about what your boss's boss needs. Leadership can look in many, many different forms. It really does come down to just trusting yourself.

[Becky Quick]

Life is short and you just gotta think big to accomplish big things.

[Julia Boorstin]

Julia Boorstin hosts CNBC Changemakers and power players. New episodes every Tuesday. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Joe Kernan]

You'Re listening to Squawk Pod from cnbc. Here's Joe Kernan.

[Joe Kernen]

Scott Jennings joins us. He's the author of A Revolution of Common Sense. How Donald Trump. It's not on me. No one saw me do that. Stormed Washington and fought for Western civilization. Welcome. Took a book to get you on here.

[Scott Jennings]

Yes, I know. Good morning.

[Joe Kernen]

We have an excuse to have you on.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah, it's a great book.

[Joe Kernen]

It's a great book.

[Scott Jennings]

Just in time for Christmas.

[Joe Kernen]

I don't know how else we would have necessarily had you on on. But you joined. When did you join CNN as a contributor? 2017.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah, I've been there for eight and a half years. But the last couple of years has really Been.

[Joe Kernen]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Bigger.

[Joe Kernen]

It happens gradually and then it happens all at once. You're like, people would say it's like when a business succeeds, it's like an instant success, they say. And then people say, I've been doing this for 20 years and it finally happened. But you're everywhere. You did your. Is it you or is it your ideas started to resonate in the current climate?

[Scott Jennings]

I'll throw one more factor in. It was the fact that we had a campaign that we were able to cover. You know, the 2020 campaign. The coverage was unusual. We didn't have the same kind of commentary, but the 24 campaign, we were all in. Plus the advent of this debating show that we had at 10 o' clock at night, the Abbey Phillips show. I mean, it gave a conservative a chance to showcase, you know, what it looks like when ideas are actually challenged. I think Americans are hungry for debate and they love it.

[Joe Kernen]

I saw something the other day, though.

[Scott Jennings]

That.

[Joe Kernen]

Does it take too long to explain to Abby Phillips the California loophole that allows Medicaid to cover illegal. She kept saying to you, almost like a child, that, no, you're wrong. No, you're wrong. No, you're wrong. 90, 90, 90. And all you had to do was say, look, this is the way it works, because money's fungible and Medicaid money flows to illegals in California and other states. And that's a fact. You weren't. You didn't. You never did say that to her.

[Scott Jennings]

Well, first of all, it's not just a fact in California, it's blue states.

[Joe Kernen]

Right.

[Scott Jennings]

And the Democratic Party position has long been that it's a good thing to give Medicaid exactly illegal immigrants. So it's not really in question and it's not really a controversial position.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You gave up.

[Joe Kernen]

I was watching. You finally said, okay, whatever. Here's my. The left in the current. The environment, I think is. I think it's out of their mind. They're out of their mind sometimes. But then I look at some of the things you have to defend on the right. Do you ever feel like you're in a position where.

There are times where it's uncomfortable to be an ardent Trump supporter? You never have any problem.

[Scott Jennings]

Look, well, I don't feel like I have to die on every hill. I mean, if something's going on that I think should be nudged in one.

[Joe Kernen]

Way or the other, you can only die once, right?

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah. Well, good pundit knows that. And you don't have to down every Hill. And you can say I would have done it this way or my advice would be to do it that way. But I do think for what I'm doing at CNN, half the country, 60% of the country, God's work, sometimes 90% of the country needs a good solid defense of what's happening and how they're absorbing the news. I'm also one of the only pundits that comes from middle America. I live in Kentucky, not D.C. or New York.

[Joe Kernen]

And so there's times I dread coming, coming. If we have an Elizabeth Warren or I got to deal with you or something.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

How do you, how do you go every day? Every day.

[Joe Kernen]

How do you go into cnn? You might as well be going to the View and sitting next to them every day. How do you do it? Do you like it? Do you like to argue?

[Scott Jennings]

I love it. I was put on this earth to debate. I'm a sometimes a pilgrim in an inhospitable land. And that's okay because I believe that.

[Joe Kernen]

Stranger in a strange land.

[Scott Jennings]

Well, I believe, look, we're in our silos, we're in our bubbles. If we talk to each other and we have a few more debates, our politics will be better.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I asked you just talk about Stranger in a strange land. We talk about economics and business all the time and capitalism and one of the unique things that's happening now, and we were talking about Nvidia, for example, this morning and things like this, it feels like there's an element of might describe a state sponsored capitalism. And everything is going through the prism of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue to some degree and how you think about that. We've been talking about the Paramount transaction and the fact that, you know, Jared Kushner's bidding on one side of that and the president is openly saying, I'm going to be involved in the decision. I mean, there are these things that are so sort of, it's a lot.

[Joe Kernen]

Different than the Bush White House at odds with.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Oh, yeah, yeah. And sort of how you see that?

[Scott Jennings]

Well, look, I think Trump would tell you he's not conservative, orthodox on some economic issues. Tariffs is one. Some of the involvement that he's had with companies is the other. But he would also probably tell you that I'm trying to do the common sense thing. That was the theme of the book. You know, I asked him once, are you conservative or are you common sense? And he said most of the time conservative is common sense. But in some cases he thinks he's got economic theories here that are digging us out of long term Structural problems that crush working class Americans. And in many cases, and this is throughout the book, he just believes he was put here to be responsive to a coalition of working class Americans that had really no politician fighting for them in Washington, D.C. so he's willing to exercise a little muscular executive authority if it means helping the coalition to put him in the White House.

[Joe Kernen]

It could be a slippery slope that allows the next administration in power to do even worse things.

[Scott Jennings]

He would say they're going to do it anyway.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You're right.

[Scott Jennings]

And that's one way to argue.

[Joe Kernen]

That's what he says about the filibuster. The Republicans might as well do it now and get some things done because they're coming anyway and they may be coming in a year. You think they're coming in a year in the House?

[Scott Jennings]

Oh, well, I think it's 50, 50 right now. I think Republicans will hold the Senate. That's my projection. But I'm still, look, we don't know the maps yet. You still got maps. Changing the Supreme Court on the Voting Rights Act. And I still think Democrats aren't all that popular. I mean, you know, they're still, they're still doing things that aren't terribly popular with the American people. And folks won't forget they did dig a deep hole for Donald Trump to climb out of.

[Becky Quick]

Hey, Scott, the what, what you've done, which is try and take dialogue, take debate, take ideas and talk about those things. I mean, I don't know that either party's leadership is really fomenting that in Washington. It seems like neither side will talk to the other. 70% of Americans are probably in the middle, somewhere in the middle on this. And they want to hear this debate. They want to hear these ideas. They want to see people working across and looking for ideas. How do we get that back to a place in Washington? Because it doesn't seem like anybody's talking across the aisle.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah, I agree with you. And I go around the country and I do a lot of talks. I hear two things. I love you and I love the debates. I don't care for you, but I love the debates. And the commonality is there's a hunger for debating content and there's a demand for this in our politics and people like it and it's okay. We don't always have to agree.

[Joe Kernen]

You're not bipartisan. You wouldn't be able to arrive at.

[Becky Quick]

It's not about bipartisan. But sometimes the partisan debates, you can't.

[Joe Kernen]

Draw ridiculous with the current common sense, can you?

[Scott Jennings]

Common sense Any consensus.

[Joe Kernen]

Any consensus with the.

[Becky Quick]

That's what I said with the, with the leadership. I don't know how you're going to do anything with Hakeem Jeffries, but there are people in the Democratic Party who I think would come about.

[Joe Kernen]

John Fetterman. John Fetterman.

[Scott Jennings]

I have a slightly different view, which is that, I mean.

[Becky Quick]

Josh. Josh.

Gotta.

Scott, yesterday.

[Scott Jennings]

That's why not only is the Democratic base not want to debate right now, they're demanding that their politicians grind government to a halt. They shut down the government because they want to stop argument from that serving. And so. But I fundamentally am in agreement with you. The people would love debates. The country was founded on debates, and they know that's how we solve our problems. And so I think debates are a good thing.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Let's ask you a question. I interviewed Erica Kirk last week, widow of Charlie Kirk, and we talked about debates and being in a debate, but not just being in debate, also being a missionary. So there's one. One element is debating an issue. The other is whether debaters ultimately change their mind. Meaning that you can win the debate and actually win over and persuade the other side. How often do you feel that you actually change your mind at the table?

[Scott Jennings]

Oh, my mind?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Scott Jennings]

Oh, you know, look, I tend to absorb news every day, and so, you know, the things we're covering tonight may change tomorrow.

[Joe Kernen]

Based on absorbing news is different than changing your mind.

[Scott Jennings]

New information.

[Joe Kernen]

Well, I'm saying that you don't change your mind.

[Scott Jennings]

I don't change my values. But when I take in new. But when I take in new information.

[Joe Kernen]

Gladiator behind enemy lines. That's what you are. That's what you are. And that's why your visibility has gotten to the point where it is because it was necessary, because it was 99 to 1 until now.

[Scott Jennings]

But it is possible to take in new details and new information and say, okay, this, this has altered my arguing or debating back then.

[Joe Kernen]

Can you remember? Give me an example. When's the last time that happened?

[Scott Jennings]

Oh, well, things change every day. Trump changes everything. When I wrote this book, I had to write it five times because things are changing with him week to week. And so I think the best debaters are the ones who stay current.

[Joe Kernen]

Well, with the president is that you don't want to sacrifice the perfect or the good for the perfect at times. Aren't there times where you, what do you say? You agree with 70% of the stuff?

[Scott Jennings]

Oh, with the President? Oh, no, far more. Look, I'm a Republican. I've been A Republican my entire life.

[Joe Kernen]

But you just said he's not a Republican.

[Scott Jennings]

He is a Republican, but sometimes he's not conservative, orthodox on certain policy vectors. And that's okay. I mean, I'm able to absorb what he's doing and give you the best argument for it. I'm also able to tell you why a Republican or a conservative might be uncomfortable with it. And I'm also here to tell you why a Democrat alternative would be a disaster. And so.

[Joe Kernen]

Right.

[Scott Jennings]

You got to understand all angles when.

[Joe Kernen]

You just say those words about Trump. Do you know that there's 40% of the country that thinks you're absolutely out of your mind? And this guy has just go down the list. Rapists, 42 felons. They got.

[Scott Jennings]

I hear it every day.

[Joe Kernen]

TDS is like, it's a cultural. I think we'll look. I think it'll be in history books what has happened.

[Scott Jennings]

I agree with you. Yeah. I mean, the reaction to him, it goes back to 2016. It's a question of legitimacy. A lot of people just have never believed he was a legitimately elected president. And that justifies a lot of political action.

[Joe Kernen]

Scott, I can't. I see my own Twitter. You don't read your Twitter comments, do you?

[Scott Jennings]

Not often.

Never read the comments.

[Joe Kernen]

They tell you I don't rec. I don't recommend. And I don't recommend I read mine, but I do anyway. And I answer, which I really.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

How much do you enjoy? I also, I did his radio show, by the way. You know, we all talk about him being on CNN. This is like Mr. Radio. How much do you enjoy that? I love radio versus the TV piece of it.

[Scott Jennings]

I love the radio show.

[Joe Kernen]

You were importing your CNN style guests onto your radio.

[Scott Jennings]

Yes, and I thank you very.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Radio.

[Joe Kernen]

You imported a foil.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah, but we had a good conversation. Look, when I was a teenager, my first job was in radio and I was putting on two things on the air. Paul Harvey and Rush Limbaugh. So everything I know about radio I learned from those two guys listening to them for years. And that's what I'm trying to do.

[Joe Kernen]

Yeah. Good day. I don't think everybody knows Paul.

[Scott Jennings]

Paul Harvey was a legend, but the man knew how to use words to paint a picture and tell a story about the news. And it was called Paul Harvey News and Comment, which I think is what people want to hear a little news.

[Joe Kernen]

Is there a civil war or is there going to be some type of resolution of the. The fighting factions on both sides of the political divide today? Because it's I'm not optimistic. The way things look, we're going to be okay.

[Scott Jennings]

I think we're going to be fine. We've been doing this for 250 years, and this is a great time for Americans to realize that things get a little heated. But we solve our problems through debate and voting, not violence.

[Joe Kernen]

And they just voted in New York City.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah, they're going to learn, aren't they?

[Becky Quick]

Sometimes you.

[Scott Jennings]

Sometimes you learn.

[Joe Kernen]

It'd be nice if we didn't have to learn that way, wouldn't it?

[Scott Jennings]

Well, it's not just New York socialism.

[Joe Kernen]

That's what I mean.

[Scott Jennings]

And affinity for it is on the rise on the left right now. And so it'll be a good thing for us. Debate in 26 and 28. I don't think most of America is going to go for it.

[Joe Kernen]

We were just actually having a conversation, who, for lack of a better term, who takes the MAGA mantle in the next election?

[Scott Jennings]

Well, I mean, I asked Trump once, who's best equipped to hold your coalition, and he answered me for about five minutes and never gave me a single name. But. But it's obvious. J.D. vance is. If he wants the nomination, he's going to get it. And Trump obviously likes him and Rubio as a team, and he's aiming in that direction. I think they'd be pretty formidable, but it's hard to replace him.

[Joe Kernen]

Who do the Democrats run?

[Scott Jennings]

They're a mess. I don't know. I mean, they're so wide open. I tell you, though, they're a little about where the Republicans were after 2012, kind of demoralized. And what did the Republicans do? They looked outside. They went away from the normal party.

[Joe Kernen]

They were forced to look outside.

[Scott Jennings]

Well, they had 17 other choices. They picked outside.

[Joe Kernen]

It was coming down an escalator and people were rolling their eyes and.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I know, I guess you're suggesting that it's going to be somebody coming off a different type of escalator.

[Scott Jennings]

I'm suggesting that when people are upset with party or party leadership, they tend to start looking around for other ideas. That's what the Republicans did, and they wound up with Trump. I don't know what the Democrats will do. I also think the energy in their party is with the radicals, and they held them off in 16 and 20, but I'm not sure they're going to hold them off in 2018.

[Joe Kernen]

We're going to let you go. Do you feel like you've been in Paris now and you don't want to go back to the forum.

Did that cross your mind now? I've been to the mountaintop.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah. I got my passport stamped over here. I'm going to go back, come back home country, come back.

[Joe Kernen]

I like, I can relax for a second when you're here. I like, I like having you here, Scott. Thank you.

[Scott Jennings]

Thank you again.

[Joe Kernen]

This book is called A Revolution of Common Sense. And yep, it's got a picture of.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Go get it for Christmas.

[Scott Jennings]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Conservative Supreme Court justices signaling they're going to back President Trump's removal of a member of the Federal Trade Commission. Court heard more than two hours of arguments in that case. It was sparked when the president tried, tried to fire a Democratic FTC member back in March before her term was over. The court's conservative wing appearing to be sympathetic to the administration's argument that congressional protections given to the head of independent agencies infringe on presidential power. So we're going to watch. It's a fascinating case.

[Joe Kernen]

In watching. I didn't realize that supposedly the executive branch power has been increasing for a century. Supposedly. And that this is not. Because, you know, when, if they do come down and vote for him, you know what the rhetoric is going to be that the Supreme Court's stacked and there's conservatives on there and they're right.

[Becky Quick]

But look what it did under fdr.

[Joe Kernen]

Right. But they're going to say that they rubber stamped because they're Trump appointing some of them. And that's what this. But it's really been a movement that's been, you know, going on for years and years and years.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Do you want, how important is it to you that these agencies have.

[Joe Kernen]

But they're in the executive branch, aren't they?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I understand that, but there's a distinction. The argument is, even if you are outnumbered, that having a Democrat or two or a Republican when, when the Democrats are in control on these agency boards, commissions, if you will.

[Becky Quick]

But it's been by convention, not by.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Law, that it creates hopefully some stability, some stability and better continuity, better answers.

[Becky Quick]

There's an argument for it, but it's been done through convention and not through the.

[Joe Kernen]

That's what the elections have consequences. And the president gets to put the people that he wants in charge of these agencies.

Then in the next election, if you don't like it, vote for the other guy. He'll put all the other people in there. But it's the executive branch.

[Becky Quick]

Right.

[Joe Kernen]

And I think that's what they're going to decide.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

That may be what they decide. The question that I would ask is a separate one, which is what is the better outcome. What is the better outcome, honestly depends on whether. To the extent that we just have. No, but, but that's the point. To the extent that we just had a great conversation with Scott about debating about the value of debating having, having even, even a gas fly inside the city.

[Becky Quick]

I'm not arguing I won't get anywhere, though. I don't know that you can.

[Joe Kernen]

Should we have stacked the deck for net neutrality the way that was done? Should we have stacked the deck for these, these ridiculous environmental guidelines that we got in a different administration? We're back to the original argument of, of who's right about no, no, but it's not even.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The point is we're talking about not stacking the deck. The point is we're talking about there'll always be majority. But you do want to have a minority on these emissions.

[Joe Kernen]

This sounds like an argument for the filibuster, which you want to get rid of some.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Who says. I didn't say that when you were.

[Joe Kernen]

Oh, I didn't mean you. I meant you.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You.

[Joe Kernen]

I don't want to get rid of it.

[Joe Kernan]

And that is the pod for today. Thank you as always, for listening. Squawk Box is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Tune in weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 Eastern to get the smartest takes and analysis from our TV show right into your ears. Please follow Squawkpod wherever you get your podcasts. Have a great day. We'll meet you right back here tomorrow.

[Becky Quick]

We are clear. Thanks, guys.

[Joe Kernen]

What made you confident that you could.

[Becky Quick]

Do something that hadn't been done before? I have no fear of failure.

[Julia Boorstin]

Trailblazing women, changing the game.

[Becky Quick]

One of my favorite pieces of advice.

[Julia Boorstin]

Think about what your boss's boss needs. Leadership can look in many, many different forms. It really does come down to just trusting yourself.

[Becky Quick]

Life is short and you just gotta think big to accomplish big things.

[Julia Boorstin]

Julia Boorstin hosts CNBC Changemakers and Power Players. New episodes every Tuesday. Wherever you get your podcasts.