Warren Buffett in Omaha 3/31/26

Summary

Squawk Pod: Warren Buffett in Omaha – March 31, 2026

Episode Overview

This special episode of Squawk Pod features an in-depth interview with Warren Buffett, his first since stepping down as CEO of Berkshire Hathaway. Hosted by Joe Kernan, the conversation spans Buffett’s ongoing philanthropic ventures, Berkshire’s investment strategies, economic outlooks, and pointed reflections on recent controversies surrounding the Bill Gates Foundation and Jeffrey Epstein. The tone is candid and reflective, with Buffett openly discussing both his enduring optimism for the American economic system and the personal and institutional challenges he has faced.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Return to Charity: The Revamped Luncheon Auction

• [02:54–11:15]
  • Buffett is back: After retiring the tradition in 2022, Buffett announces a new charity lunch auction—this time joined by Steph and Aisha Curry, benefitting both the Glide Foundation and the Currys’ Eat, Learn, Play Foundation. The auction will run from May 7th–14th.
  • Backstory: The original luncheon idea came from Buffett’s first wife, Susie, who was inspired by Glide’s Reverend Cecil Williams. Buffett recounts the auction’s humble beginnings and its impressive growth via eBay.
  • Why he returned: The Glide auction lapsed after his retirement, and with Rev. Williams’ wishes in mind, Buffett felt compelled to “do one more just to get it started again” ([07:57]). He’s also pledged to match this year’s winning bid.

“It inspires people… It would have killed me to have this just die off as much as Cecil poured into it himself.”
—Warren Buffett, [09:19]

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2. Life After CEO: Berkshire, Investment Style, and Greg Abel

• [11:20–18:08]
  • Buffett’s new routine: Says his life “is not much different” but everything takes “way longer” now. Praises successor Greg Abel, who “covers more ground in a day than I would in a week” ([11:34–12:38]).
  • Staying involved: Buffett remains active in investing (with Greg’s approval), still tracks daily trades, but admits to only one small recent purchase, saying, “We aren’t finding things that…we weren’t finding them before” ([16:14–16:18]).
  • Cash is king: Berkshire is “north of $350 billion” in cash and T-bills—Buffett notes, “We bought $17 billion this week” ([14:08–14:21]). Berkshire is likely “the largest bidder” for T-bills in the U.S.

“Greg covers more ground in a day than I would in a week, even when I was at my peak.”
—Warren Buffett, [12:17]

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3. Market Outlook: Valuations, Tech, and Apple

• [18:08–24:06]
  • Market correction: Despite a rough quarter for stocks, Buffett shrugs off the idea that equities are now cheap, pointing out he’s “seen the market go down more than 50% three times” and that “this is nothing” ([16:40–17:10]).
  • Investment decisions: Buffett says, “we aren’t in it to make 5 or 6%,” and holds out for meaningful bargains ([17:14]).
  • Apple’s place: Still Berkshire’s largest holding. Buffett expresses both pride and mild regret:

    “I sold it too soon, but I bought it even sooner… I think we’ve made over $100 billion in that pre tax.”
    —Warren Buffett, [19:56]

  • Tech aversion and humility: Admits he’s “so late to the game” on tech (especially AI) and prefers consumer-facing businesses:

    “I don’t because I wouldn’t be any good at it. And besides, I’m so late to the game, I am not learning new things well.”
    —Warren Buffett, [24:15]

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4. Economic & Federal Reserve Concerns

• [25:55–34:45]
  • Fed’s tough job: Buffett would be most concerned about the U.S. dollar’s status as a reserve currency; warns, “if it does happen, I wouldn’t want the responsibility of running the Fed” ([26:20–26:47]).
  • On monetary policy: Praises Jay Powell for decisive pandemic-era action, but wishes the Fed’s inflation target were zero:

    “Once you start saying you’re going to tolerate 2%, that compounds pretty dramatically over time…”
    —Warren Buffett, [28:30]

  • Banking system fragility: Notes both the strength and interconnected fragility of U.S. banks. “JP Morgan … reported doing $10 trillion of business per day. That’s an unsecured policy.”
  • Cash over speculation: Maintains massive cash reserves as insurance: “We’ll always have cash around and we’ll have treasury bills. We won’t have money market funds…” ([32:48])

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5. Gambling & Market Speculation

• [34:31–38:47]
  • Speculation vs. long-term investing: Buffett draws a stark line between investing and gambling, decrying how American markets blend both:

    “You have this incredible cathedral called the American economic system… But attached to it is a casino and people can walk back and forth between the two.”
    —Warren Buffett, [34:34]

  • Government’s role: Cautions against the state’s complicity in legal gambling and lotteries:

    “I don’t think the function of the government is to play its people for suckers.”
    —Warren Buffett, [37:57]

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6. Geopolitics: Middle East, Oil, and Nuclear Risks

• [38:47–46:30]
  • Middle East uncertainty: Buffett admits he can’t predict oil prices or geopolitical shocks, but recognizes their impact on positions like Chevron and Occidental.
  • Nuclear arms: Describes nuclear proliferation as a persistent existential risk, referencing historical context and recent political calls to address Iran’s nuclear ambitions.
    • Shares a chilling anecdote about a president’s readiness to launch nuclear retaliation:

      “He said, I thought about that every day during the time I was in office. ... I think the answer is yes, I would tell them to do it. That is the point policy of the United States of America.”
      —Warren Buffett, [44:51–45:08]

  • On risk and leadership: Observes that the greatest risk lies with “somebody that’s got their hand on the switch who is dying themselves or facing enormous embarrassment if you’re a semicoepone. If you’re cornered.” ([46:09])

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7. Philanthropy, Gates Foundation, and the Epstein Scandal

• [46:30–62:36]
  • Buffett’s giving: Has given away almost $60 billion, mostly to the Gates Foundation.
  • On Jeffrey Epstein: Buffett is startled by the scope of Epstein’s manipulation:

    “He had a way of conning everybody… He found their weakness, it might be sex, it might be power, it might be whatever it might be.”
    —Warren Buffett, [46:51, 47:47]

  • On Gates Foundation governance: Admits to being unaware of much that was happening:

    “I learned that I didn’t know what was going on, which didn’t mean something terrible was going on, necessarily, but I certainly didn’t know what was going on.”
    —Warren Buffett, [53:54]

  • Cautious continuation: Buffett may pause giving additional funds until investigations clarify further details. He is firm that, “I don’t think Bill had anything to do with girls or the island or anything like that” ([57:39]).
  • Possible legal fallout: Buffett anticipates “major foundation hearings” and possible changes to the law in response to the Epstein revelations ([60:15]).
  • The Giving Pledge: Talks about its global impact and critics, shrugging off backlash:

    “If they don’t like it, they can retire from it. They didn’t make a legal pledge anyway.”
    —Warren Buffett, [65:01]

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8. Final Reflections: America, Politics & Personal Ties

• [70:46–72:19]
  • On America’s contradictions: Buffett sees the U.S. as both the “wonder of the world” and troubled by division, noting the extremes of prosperity and inequality and the difficulty of problem-solving in a two-party system.

    “It’s become more partisan than ever and we’re more prosperous than ever…so you have to say capitalism’s worked. But it still needs…”
    —Warren Buffett, [71:40]

  • Party affiliation: Buffett confirms he’s been both a Democrat and Republican, but now considers himself an independent ([72:03]).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “Greg covers more ground in a day than I would in a week, even when I was at my peak.”
  ([12:17], on his successor at Berkshire)
• “We’ll always have cash around and we’ll have treasury bills. We won’t have money market funds… There’s just one thing that’s legal tender.”
  ([32:48], cash as a fortress)
• “You have this incredible cathedral called the American economic system...But attached to it is a casino...People like to gamble.”
  ([34:34], on speculation)
• “I don’t think the function of the government is to play its people for suckers.”
  ([37:57], on lotteries and gambling)
• “I think there could be major foundation hearings”
  ([60:15], predicting fallout from the Epstein files)
• “It’s become more partisan than ever and we’re more prosperous than ever…so you have to say capitalism’s worked. But it still needs…”
  ([71:40], closing reflection)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:54] Charity luncheon returns: Glide and Eat, Learn, Play foundations
• [11:20] Life after CEO, Berkshire’s current structure and Greg Abel praise
• [14:08] Berkshire’s current cash position and approach to T-bills
• [16:40] Market correction—Buffett’s take on stock valuations
• [19:56] Reflections on Apple investment—“sold it too soon, but bought it even sooner”
• [25:55] On the Fed, inflation targets, and systemic risk
• [34:34] Speculation, gambling, and the casino analogy
• [38:47] Middle East, energy security, and nuclear threat context
• [46:51] Gates Foundation, Epstein files, and philanthropy controversies
• [65:01] The Giving Pledge and billionaire backlash
• [71:40] Partisanship in America and closing thoughts
• [72:03] Buffett declares: “I’m an Independent.”

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Closing Notes

Buffett’s tone is warm, disarmingly self-effacing, and philosophically candid throughout. He repeatedly emphasizes humility regarding uncertainty, prioritizes prudence and integrity, and remains committed to philanthropy—with an ever-watchful eye toward new risks, both systemic and reputational. The episode gives a rare, unvarnished view of Buffett in transition, ever pragmatic and reflective on his outsized role in finance, charity, and public life.

Transcript

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[Warren Buffett]

It's a lot of fun.

[Zach Felici (CNBC Producer)]

Warren Buffett in Omaha with Becky Quick, his first interview since stepping down as Berkshire Hathaway CEO.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Are you still involved in making investments at all?

[Zach Felici (CNBC Producer)]

Yeah, the Oracle of Omaha on Apple, his biggest single investment in six decades at the helm.

[Warren Buffett]

I think we've made over $100 billion in that pre tax.

[Zach Felici (CNBC Producer)]

He'd buy even more, just not in this market.

[Warren Buffett]

Well, I sold it too soon, but I bought it even sooner.

[Zach Felici (CNBC Producer)]

So how Buffett is thinking about the Iran war, the Federal Reserve and private credit.

[Warren Buffett]

It's all parts of the banking system because they all affect each other and the troubles from one can spread over to another.

[Zach Felici (CNBC Producer)]

Plus Warren Buffett on Jeffrey Epstein.

[Warren Buffett]

He had a way of conning everybody.

[Zach Felici (CNBC Producer)]

His views of Epstein's cons and his network.

[Warren Buffett]

I'm so happy the guy didn't it didn't stop in all the harbor. I mean I didn't live in New York. If I'd lived in New York at some party, I would have been at some damn thing.

[Zach Felici (CNBC Producer)]

Buffett has given about $43 billion to the Gates foundation over the years and has maintained a decades long friendship with Bill Gates. Buffett says he hasn't spoken to Gates lately.

[Warren Buffett]

I think until it gets cleared up, I just don't think it makes sense to do a lot of talking. For one thing, my memory's no good anymore and I don't want to be under old.

[Zach Felici (CNBC Producer)]

I'm CNBC producer Zach Felici. Squawk Pod reports. Warren Buffett begins right now.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

We do have a very special Guest today, Warren Buffett, the chairman of Berkshire Hathaway, former CEO of Berkshire Hathaway. And this is the first time that we are sitting down with him since he stepped down from that CE role, CEO role. Warren, welcome. It is wonderful to see you this morning.

[Warren Buffett]

It's fun to be on.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

You are on for an interesting reason. For 22 years, you had been holding an annual luncheon, an auction for a luncheon to benefit the Glide foundation in San Francisco. You retired from that, from doing that back in 2022, after you'd raised more than $50 million. I think the last auction that you raised, that you did raised $19,000,100 for the Glide Foundation. And you kind of hung it up and said that was going to be the end. You are back with a new announcement today that there is a new auction that is coming with a twist this time. It's Warren Buffett, Stephen Curry and Aisha Curry. And they're going to be having a new luncheon to benefit not only the Glide foundation, but the Curry's foundation as well, which is Eat, Learn, Play. And this auction is going to be held May 7th. It starts at 7:30pm Pacific Time. It closes on May 14th at 7:30pm exactly. And all of the benefits of that is going to go to benefit these two foundations, Glide and the Eat, Learn, Play Foundation. How did this come about? Why did you unretire from this?

[Warren Buffett]

Well, let me tell you first how I got into it, because my first wife, Susie, was living in San Francisco, and she said to me, this guy is real.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

This guy being Cecil, who was running for Cecil.

[Warren Buffett]

Yeah, Cecil Williams, who came to that church in 1963. And it was a dying church in a changing part of the neighborhood in San Francisco. And they weren't glad to see him, the hundred or so parishioners that were left. But he turned it into something that became. It gave hope in life to people that the world had given up on. And I went on Sunday still expecting something less than that. And I watched Cecil, and I could see what he was doing, and he was for real. And so Susie at some point said, why don't you do something to raise some money for him? You know? And so I think she actually selected the idea of the launch. And then we did the launch. The first three launches brought $25,000 each because they were localized. And then we got the idea of going on ebay. And then we started getting bids from around the world, and it just generally kept moving up, although it wasn't every single year. But it just Put us on the map. And as the final amount, 19 million. Now, that was kind of raised because it was the last one, I think I was doing. And a fellow bought it that had bought an earlier lunch, but I didn't make any calls to him or do anything. It just turned out to be. It inspires people. And Smith and Wilensky, as you know, covered New York sometimes.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Well, that's often where you had the lunch with the winners of this.

[Warren Buffett]

And some of them wanted to be in that Anonymous. And a couple came to Omaha along the line because they had some special thing they wanted to talk about. But I think everybody felt they. They were glad they did it, and I was glad to do it.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

And so why did you stop?

[Warren Buffett]

Well, I ran out of gas. You know, I got to be, what, 93 at that time or like that. And it just. Same reason I gave up teaching. I teach. I was. I taught every year from when I was 21 till 88 or 89. And there just came a period when your bodies had different things to you and you should turn it over to somebody, just like I did a Berkshire. I mean, at different times on different things. But I. And so we thought we had a continuation of it all set up, and then for one reason or another, it fizzled. And so the last two years, they. Well, I think the first year, some board member made up some members, but basically the auction disappeared.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

So they haven't had the funds coming in.

[Warren Buffett]

No. And Cecil Williams was about my age, did all this, and it got so I couldn't understand him on the phone or anything like that, but all he wanted was this to continue. And so I don't know where the idea came from exactly, but I said I would do one more just to get it started again and have Seth Curry join us. I mean, in the Bay Area, I mean, it's just a natural, right?

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

The Eat, Learn, Play foundation that Stephan and Aisha Curry have set up is in the Bay Area as well. So they're locally focused on all of these things. For people who don't know, the Glide foundation was also. It was highlighted in the movie the Pursuit of Happiness with Will Smith. So people may have a little bit of an idea what that's about. Why Steph Curry, how did that come about?

[Warren Buffett]

I mean, who can say it better? I mean, he's worked with the kids in Oakland. I mean, these are kids between 5 and 15 or something like that. And he plays basketball with him. And, I mean, he's a terrific guy. I don't. You know, I Haven't met him personally.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

But you did talk to Stefan at.

[Warren Buffett]

We had a long talk on the phone. And. And. And it's his baby, and he can carry it forth. And incidentally, whatever is bid this year, I will make an equal contribution. I don't think that doesn't know this, but. But. But I will make an equal contribution to both Glide and to the foundation and, you know, just go on to new heights. And Seth is the hero of millions and millions of people, so I really think it'll work. I think it'll continue to be what Cecil hoped it to be. And it would have killed me to have to just die off as much. What Cecil poured into it himself. He believed everybody was worthwhile, and the world had given up on these people, and he may have started giving a little bit of food to him, but before he got through, he was doing all these things, and he never gave up on anybody.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

And I know you said that Astrid really liked him, too.

[Warren Buffett]

Oh, yeah. Well, Ostrid was my second wife. And you couldn't help but like him. I mean, when you watched him up there with people that the world had given up on, and. And he says to him, I'll feed you. I'll have a bed for you. We'll have a vocation for you. You know, we're not going to give up on you and never did.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Warren, this is the first time that we're sitting down with you since you stepped down from the position of CEO of Berkshire Hathaway. Yeah, it was a long, long run, Very successful run. How is your life different today?

[Warren Buffett]

Well, it's not much different, except for thei mean, I go in every day to the office. Yeah, I go in every day to the office. I don't accomplish hardly anything. I mean, in terms of. It just takes me way longer to do things. And Greg is so good. It was kind of embarrassing how good he is, because he is covered. You know, we've got about 200 businesses within Merchant, you know, that came about, and I can't name the managers names or their wives names, and I haven't seen them, you know, in a long time. It was easier just to write the letter once a year and kind of do my own thing. Greg covers more ground in a day than I would in a week, even when I was at my peak, let alone my present condition. So it's a move that in many ways, I could have done it earlier and Greg would have been better than I was. But I can still contribute just a tiny bit. But.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Well, are you still involved in making investments at all?

[Warren Buffett]

Yeah, yeah, it. But I won't make any. That Greg thinks wrong. And, and he'll run. He's starting to get a few calls and he'll call me about him and, and like me, he doesn't like them, you know, but, but calls for deals. He'll keep me posted. Yeah, well, yeah, it's investment bankers calling him.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Okay.

[Warren Buffett]

And, and they'll sell. You know, they try and sell anything, but, but I cut him off in about 10 or 15 seconds and he's, he's, he spends more time with him, but I don't know where he gets his time because he plays hockey with this. I mean, it isn't like he's as fanatic as I was, you know, in terms of running the place, but with no more apparent effort. He just covers so many bases.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

In terms of what you're doing with investing, I mean, it's a huge amount of money. How much cash does Berkshire have on hand at this point?

[Warren Buffett]

I don't know the exact number, but it's not much different than before. So, you know, it's, it's probably north of 350 billion in cash and treasury bills. Yeah. So we bought 17 billion this week.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

17 billion of T bills.

[Warren Buffett]

T bills.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Berkshire's the largest owner of T bills.

[Warren Buffett]

I think we're probably the largest bidder. And ironically, I got involved in Sullivan because they bid for too many bills. And I don't think they'd get mad at us now if we've bid for too many. But, but you're not supposed to go over 35% or something in the auction. And of course you've been through the primary dealers. But I don't even know the mechanics that well. But one fellow in our office handles all the mechanics of the stocks and bonds we buy.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Mark Millard.

[Warren Buffett]

Yeah, exactly. And any place else they'd have 25 or 30 people that. And he loves what he does and I love what he does. He's down the hall about 20ft and about every hour or hour and a half, he brings me in what we've done and what Berkshire has done, just

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

in terms of the markets that day.

[Warren Buffett]

Yeah, I call him, I call him before the market opens because I see what's been going on, you know, pre market and probably change the limits. Only I don't get lots of different stocks or anything like that. Every now and then I'll, I'll introduce something and I will change limit prices daily.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

But you don't do that. You don't check With Greg. Before you're doing that, you check with Greg on a.

[Warren Buffett]

Well, Greg. Greg gets the sheet every day.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Oh, he does too.

[Warren Buffett]

He doesn't get it quite as fast as I get it, I mean, but probably gets sent over at the end of the day or something of the sort. And if Greg different with me on anything, we wouldn't be doing it.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

But you're still making new purchases.

[Warren Buffett]

Pardon me?

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

You're still making new purchases.

[Warren Buffett]

Got one tiny purchase. But we aren't finding things that. That we weren't finding them before.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Well, let's talk about that. The market has come down substantially.

[Warren Buffett]

You've not substantially.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Well, you've got both the Dow and the NASDAQ in correction territory. It's the worst performance on a quarterly basis for stocks in about four years. Do things look cheaper to you?

[Warren Buffett]

No. Three times since I've taken over Berkshire, it's gone down more than 50%. I mean, if you look at the markets of. The worst probably was the 20078 period. Although there was that one Monday when you had 21% in a day. I mean, this is nothing. I mean, it.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

This is nothing to make you get excited and think there's huge valuation if

[Warren Buffett]

they're 5 or 6% cheaper. That doesn't. We aren't in it to make 5 or 6%. I mean, but we aren't a big seller either. In the end. We own businesses. Sometimes they're wholly owned, sometimes they're partly owned. That's what I like to own. And two thirds of our money or more is in our businesses. And we bought occidental chemical on January 3rd. That was 9.7 billion. And as far as I'm concerned, that's got some advantages, some disadvantages versus owning a stock, but it's got the same principles attached to it. It is a business, and it's a business we expect to own indefinitely. I mean, are you.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

I mean, it doesn't sound like you're necessarily finding businesses that you want to own flat out either, not just purchasing portions of them. If you've got $350 billion plus sitting around.

[Warren Buffett]

Yeah. And we get calls all the time, and they're silly calls, but like I say, it takes me five seconds to say no. It takes. Greg's a little more polite than I am, but. I just as soon get the calls just to see what people are doing. But they aren't offering anything that's at an attractive price. And what they want is a trade. Yeah.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Are you waiting for the next big drop in the market? To deploy that cash and if so, coming.

[Warren Buffett]

Yeah. If there is a big decline, we will deploy. I mean, but we won't, we will deploy it because stocks are attractive or businesses are attractive to us and we are not planning to sell them next week or next month. So we want to be right on them. And we've had our American Express stock 30 years without having Coca Cola close to 40 years, 35 years. And on the other hand, there's things I changed my mind on fairly quickly. But the goal is to own the own businesses. And when we buy Occidental Chemical, we expect to own that 50 years from now. You know, the world can change in some way, but that is, we do not, we do not buy that with a thought of resale.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

You've sold a lot of stock that's done very well for you, Apple.

[Warren Buffett]

Yeah, well, I sold it too soon, but I bought it even sooner. So. Yeah, I, I think we've made over $100 billion in that pre tax.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

But you're regretting it. You say you sold it too soon.

[Warren Buffett]

No, no, no. I don't have any ability to predict what stocks will do next week or next month. And I will buy them if they're cheap. I'll buy a whole lot of them if they're cheap. And I think I really understand the business. And Apple is still our largest single investment.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

And you like it that way?

[Warren Buffett]

Yeah, well, if I didn't like it, I could sell it. Yeah, no, I can. And I, I think it's a remark. It's better than any business we own outright now. We own a railroad that's worth more money than our Apple position, for example. They're both looked at the same way. I mean, they're both, they're both businesses. I expect the, I think it's more predictable in a certain sense that the railroad will be around 50 or 100 years from now. But it doesn't earn the rate remotely on capital that Apple does. I mean, Apple is a, a business that, you know, you've got one probably and your kids have got them.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

I mean, not one, we've got like 20 of them.

[Warren Buffett]

Yeah. With the devices and actually the Bell Telephone Company was that way at one point, but they were regulated.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Well, do you worry about regulation coming for some of these big tech companies, in particular Apple?

[Warren Buffett]

I think the consumer is in love with them too much. I don't think Washington will do anything that really destroys something that every one of their voters likes and they're using themselves. I mean, it's a remarkable product that way. Just think of something that is as useful as the Apple is. I mean, it's. Tim Cook has done better with the hand Steve Jobs. He couldn't have done what Steve Jobs did, but Steve Jobs handed him a hand that Steve would not have done as well. Steve picked him. I mean, when he got right down to it. And Tim was fantastic manager and he's a good guy and somehow he gets along with everybody in the world, which is, you know, that's a technique I wouldn't have. For example, certainly my partner Charlie Mugger wouldn't have had it. But. I'm very happy to have it be our largest holding. I was not happy to have it be as large as almost everything else combined.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Okay, that makes sense.

[Warren Buffett]

Although at a price I was. It's not impossible that Apple would get to a price. We would buy a lot of it, but not in this market. I mean, it just isn't going to have to.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

How much would stocks have to come down for you to think that this is really attractive?

[Warren Buffett]

Well, depends on the stock. Some stocks now, generally speaking, they move together to quite a degree, but. But I don't think I know what the market's going to do. I do think I've got a reasonable idea of what a business is worth. I have no idea what the stock market's going to do and I don't think anybody else does either.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

You don't necessarily follow tech companies and Apple people look at as a tech company, but you always looked at as a consumer company.

[Warren Buffett]

Yeah, company.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

So what do you do about all of these tech stocks and the AI trends that are there? Do you try and follow any of that? Do you get involved in any of the industries?

[Warren Buffett]

I don't because I'm a. I wouldn't be any good at it. And besides, I'm so late to the game, I am not learning new things. Well, I still don't know what to do with the phone, but I just recognize the fact that you're going to have one and your kids are going to want one. And it is a terribly useful. I mean, it's incredibly useful. You get something that's useful and offered worldwide and where to some extent you're a little worried about maybe moving your photos from one system to another. And all I had to do was go out to the Nebraska Furniture Mart and talk to the customers is what. That's what I did 60 years ago with American Express when they looked like they were, you know, done for on the solid oil scandal. And I went down to the Omaha National Bank. And I said, are you getting a premium for American Express tickets? They could sell their Travelers check for more than Citigroup, bank of America, you know, Barclays, everybody had that. And they were getting a premium at the same time that everybody else was worried about them getting in, getting out of business. And the same thing. When they actually started their card, they were going up against Diners Club and Carte Blanche, who had come first. And they came, they came on later. And instead of coming in at a cut price, they came in at a price above the competition. That says a lot about how Silvers felt about American Express.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Yeah. Warren, let me ask you about the economy, because the Fed is in a bit of a quandary right now just trying to figure out which one of its mandates it's more worried about. Is it worried about inflation potentially rising more? Is it worried about the jobs market and, you know, potential decline in economic output? What, what of those two issues would worry you most if you were at the Fed right now?

[Warren Buffett]

Well, if I were at the Fed, the thing I'd worry about always is you're the reserve currency of the world. I mean, so you've got very smart people, very sophisticated people. The American dollar looks like nothing could happen to it. I don't see how anything could happen to it. But if it does happen to it, I would, I wouldn't want the responsibility of running the Fed.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

But what was.

[Warren Buffett]

I mean, the world will be dependent on it doing it. And last time in 2007 and 8, you had Congress that essentially felt they knew more about it than, you know, Secretary of Treasury. And so they really gummed things up when they turned down TARP the first time. And I mean, it was, I think now people better understand what. The Fed can print money.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

The Fed can print money. And we have a President, President Trump, who would like to see the Fed cut rates. Would you cut rates if you were there right now?

[Warren Buffett]

I don't know what I'd do there. I mean, I think that Jay Powell in, when, when the epidemic broke out, I think he acted in March of 2020, and I think if he'd waited two or three weeks, it would have been a disaster. Once the dominoes start toppling, they just start toppling. And, and, and, and that line is shorter than anybody thinks, and it topples faster. And I think he did exactly the right thing, and he did it even stronger than Volcker did. I mean, he and Volcker are my heroes at the Fed.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Did they keep rates low for too long? I mean, I think that's as they didn't worry about inflation, as they said it was going to be transitory, because I think even Powell himself said that he might wish he'd turned it sooner.

[Warren Buffett]

Well, I, I wish they had a zero inflation target. Right. But I mean, once you start saying you're going to tolerate 2%, that compounds pretty dramatically over time. And you're, you're saying to people, if you're getting less than 2% on your money, you're going backwards. And actually, if you pay tax, you may pay tax on the 2%. You know, I mean, I don't like, I don't like that particular goal, but

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

so inflation is maybe what you'd be more concerned about. I mean, that's what Greenspan, Alan Greenspan always said.

[Warren Buffett]

Yeah, I would be. I would care about inflation. I would compare. What I really would care about is the stability of the banks. I mean, the banking system is in some senses very strong. In other senses, very fragile. JP Morgan in the last couple of reports reported doing 10 trillion of business per day. Now that's an unsecured policy. Now, they know what they're doing, believe me. I mean, there's nobody smarter than JB and, but I don't want, I didn't want, during the 2008 period, I didn't want anything unsecured out there for a day. I mean, who knew nobody was any good? You know, I mean, the world is very interconnected and, and everybody panics. They may say they don't, but you can call the biggest investment banking firms and they know and they say, well, they don't answer the phone even if things get bad enough. And if they do answer the phone, they say 10 bid, 20 offered. Subject.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Yeah, I mean, Joe will talk about that day that you mentioned where the dow was down 21%. I think he was at that point, he said it himself. He was hiding under his desk for the calls that were coming in. Yeah, and because when liquidity disappeared, it was a percent.

[Warren Buffett]

And that was someday. And it just kept coming. And most of the specialist firms which then counted for more in terms of the stability of the markets, they were broke. I mean, as I remember, they went around to their banks and said, just don't pull the loans. But people, they were supposed to keep making markets, but people just kept hitting the bid. And you can widen the spread out. You got circuit breakers now, all kinds of things. But when people are scared, they're scared. And people, if you yell fire in a crowded theater, everybody around us still, it still pays to beat people to the door, you know, I get trampled, you know, so I will, I will stand back there and say, everybody stay calm. You know, but that's because I can't run fast. On the other hand, when people come back into the theater, they come in one at a time. They know they don't have to get into it. But when people panic, they panic.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

But, but is it the banking system we should be concerned about right now, or is it the shadow banking system, the private credit?

[Warren Buffett]

At this point, it's all parts of the banking system because they all affect each other and the troubles from one can spread over to another. And, well, you saw what happened, I mean, in 2008.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

But at risk of potentially. I don't want people to say that you are commenting on what's happening in the private credit situation right now. What do you think of the private credit situation right now? Are there enough concerning issues there that you worry that it could cause a contagion in the future?

[Warren Buffett]

I don't think I know.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Okay?

[Warren Buffett]

I do not think I know what. But therefore, I want to be prepared for anything. And therefore we will always have, we'll always have cash around and we'll have treasury bills. We won't have money market funds. We didn't have them in 2008. We won't have commercial paper in 2008. There's just one thing that's legal tender. And, you know, if you own treasury bills, and we have known we don't own treasury bonds way out. I mean, but every Monday the Treasury has to sell bills. And as long as they got to sell, you know, X billions worth of bills, I mean, they can't, they can print some money to do it and they'll do it.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

But just to put a fine point on it, you don't think you know what's happening out there. You've had this huge cash war north of $350 billion in. It's just there waiting for any time. It's not that you necessarily think that there's something on the horizon. It's just a longer time.

[Warren Buffett]

I always want to have cash and I never want to buy anything just because people think the market is going up. I mean, the idea that people think they know what the market's going to do is just crazy. I mean, the idea that, that they would shout out to the world, you know, something they really knew. That's like saying if they had gold, found gold in their backyard, they'd come on television and say, here's where the gold is in my backyard. You know, I mean, they're selling something

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

they want other people to follow. You mean?

[Warren Buffett]

Well, they know that there's a certain, I mean there's people in the United States and other parts of the world, but you've seen how much they like to gamble. And basically you have this incredible cathedral called the American economic system. Nobody's seen anything like it. It's the cathedral of all cathedrals, but attached to it as a casino and people can walk back and forth between the two. And believe me, people like to gamble. I mean they gamble with the odds against them in the market. They can actually gamble if they really aren't gambling, if they do it. But I mean if they just buy a stock and sit for 50 years, if they got a group of them, they're going to do fine. I mean the American capitalism system works and betting against the house does not work. It's just, it's so simple. But people don't like to gamble. I mean, when you say gambling, are you talking my honeymoon in 1952, we went through, Susie and I, we just got in my Aunt Alice's car and we drove and we went through Las Vegas at the time and I watched all these people were dressed well and they'd flown non jets, they'd flown, you know, for many hours, spent much money and everything else to go and pull handles, you know, or do something that was mathematically dumb. And I thought this is a land of opportunity. I told her we were going to get rich. I mean, how can you have people who have perfectly decent IQs rushing to do dumb things, which they do. And industries build on it now it's become legalized and the more they open it up, the more people like to do it. They like to do it in the stock market. And actually in the stock market at least they got a favorable expectancy if they just sit tight. But they don't sit tight of course, if they downwards.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

So you're not a fan of prediction markets, of legalized sports gambling, even of day trading, is that basically what you're saying?

[Warren Buffett]

Well, I don't think, I don't think you can stop it once you open it up. And once the states found out that they could pay about 60 cents on the dollar or something like that, whatever, they may have different systems for different states. It was one state, it was legal. And when I was a kid, and we've been around for hundreds of years, but then once people saw how that was working, other places took it up and of course rich people love it because they don't have to pay. I mean, you know, to the extent that the states raise money from people who, when the dollar really means something to them, actually relieves the taxes on me or other rich people, I mean, it's not direct, but it's the net effect. So I don't like things that make a sucker out of people. I don't like them. I particularly don't like them when the government sponsors them. I don't think the government should play its. I don't think the function of the government is to play its people for suckers.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Yeah, my dad has always said the lottery is a tax on the stupid gambling. Same thing.

[Warren Buffett]

It's a tax. It's a tax on stupidity. But I'm not mad at the people that are stupid. No, I really am not. I mean, you can't help it to some extent if you're human beings, you're geared that way when somehow it's developed within the humans. I don't like it when the government that they elect decides they're going to profit off that sort of activity. And I particularly just. I think it's kind of cynical. I don't think. I don't think you should have a cynical government. I mean, it's what.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Warren, let me shift gears and ask a little bit about what you think that is happening, that's happening about what's happening in the Middle east right now.

[Warren Buffett]

What's happening what.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

What's happening in the Middle East? Oh, there's a lot of ways we could go with this, but why don't we start with just what it means for crude oil and energy in particular. Berkshire owns a utility company. What do these higher prices mean?

[Warren Buffett]

Well, it means the two oil positions we have, Chevron and Occidental, go up a lot. But that doesn't mean I can go around predicting what will happen next. I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow over there. Yeah.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

You for a long time were involved with the nuclear initiative. I think still are funding that. And I know your very first priority in philanthropy was the nuclear problem.

[Warren Buffett]

I think it's the problem. I think it should. Well, I'll put it this way. When I went to school, grammar school, they told me the sun was going to burn out in four and a half billion years. I took that pretty philosophically. I mean, I could handle that. And now you've got nine countries, including, you know, a guy in North Korea, I mean, and there will be something happen. And we worried enormously about it when there were two. And we had perfectly we had really pretty sane leaders, Kennedy and Khrushchev, you know, I mean, you were not dealing with unstable people or anything like that. And you know, the ships turned around, but people were hiding under their desk with two. I mean, just think how you feel with North Korea having it and Iran wanting to get it. I mean, it is. And I don't have an answer for that. I mean, we did the right thing in 1938 or 1939. Go look at. It's all over the Internet. The most important letter ever written. And Leo Szilard could not get the message to. He was a famous message nuclear physicist. Terrific one. Very funny too. He couldn't get the message to Roosevelt, but he knew if Einstein signed the letter that it would get there. And he finally got Einstein to sign the letter. And that letter was a month before the Germans started rolling into Poland. And I don't think Roosevelt understood U235 any better than I do. I mean, you know, but he knew if Einstein signed it, he better do something. And the funny thing is, of course he was doing it because he was worried about the Germans getting it and it was actually used on the Japanese. But. We haven't learned to live with it now. We've gone 80 years since then. We've had a lot of close calls. I mean, we've had training tapes put in there that almost got the President to do something. They've had them. I mean, there is no way that the planet has an expectancy of 500 years now when it was four and a half billion when I was a kid and we had to do it. I'm not faulting anybody. My dad was in Congress. He would have voted for. I mean, everybody rejoiced on PJ Day, you know, I mean, it. But there was no way we could undo it.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Well, I think the question becomes today, Nikki Haley was just on squawk box right before you and she was saying she thinks the President should go in and find the enriched uranium in Iran right now. And that's a controversial position.

[Warren Buffett]

It's a controversial. But I would be, I would be for one way or another if I were the President of the United States. I don't want to be President of the United States because I don't want that. Sorry. I one time asked one president, I said, you know, if the Soviets had launched, so they already were in the air and our policy was mutually assured destruction, would you have told Strategic Air Command unleash ours knowing that it wasn't going to. I mean, it was going to just kill millions and millions and millions more people and add to a super pollutant atmosphere that who knows what was going to happen. I mean, and now we have.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

What was the answer?

[Warren Buffett]

The answer? Well, this president said, he said I thought about that every day because some major shows up at midnight and says we have incontrovertible. This is not, this is not geese above the North Pole. This is not a training tape that got put in by mistake. We know they're in the air. And you've got 10 minutes to make a decision, Mr. President. What do I tell SAC to do? Do we unleash ours? And I used to be on the SAC advisory board. But believe it or not, the, the but that was for political purposes as I put people on naturally, because they were always looking for more money and they just figured. And I don't blame him.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

But what did the President say? What was his answer?

[Warren Buffett]

The President said, I thought about it every day during the time I was in office. He was the next President, but did

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

not give an answer on what he

[Warren Buffett]

actually, no, he said, I think the answer is yes, I would tell him to do it. That is the point policy of the United States of America.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Yeah. So if you were the President today or if you were advising the President today, what would you say about going after the enriched uranium in Iran?

[Warren Buffett]

I would say that one way or another in the next hundred years, maybe it's 200 years, who knows? But one way or another, something will happen to cause it to be used. And we can't take what's out there now. And if you thought it was dangerous for the Soviets and us, but Khrushchev, who was a perfectly rational guy, probably Kennedy, just whether we're dealing with the guy in North Korea that criticizes his haircut or something, I mean, or I would say the most dangerous thing is actually somebody that's got their hand on the switch who is dying themselves or facing enormous embarrassment if you're a semicoepone. If you're cornered. Yeah.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

If you're cornered.

[Warren Buffett]

Yeah.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

So that still rises to the level of one of the most important.

[Warren Buffett]

It is, yeah. It's just that I don't know the answer for it, but I do know that be more difficult if Iran has the bomb than if they don't.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Yeah. Warren, I'm going to shift topics again. You have given away almost $60 billion since 2006 when you first started giving money away. The bulk of that has gone to the Bill Gates Foundation. What have you thought about all the emails in the Epstein files related to Bill Gates.

[Warren Buffett]

Well, I won't say what I thought about him, particularly related to Bill Gates, but I say it's astounded me how human people are here. You had a guy that was a convicted guy, a sensational con man, and the percentage of people that he knocked off, I mean, whether it was he found their weakness, it might be sex, it might be power, it might be whatever it might be. And I don't see how anybody could have pulled that off. And then. And of course, all these figures think that it's going when he dies, that ha. You know, they. They basically lied about it before, but, I mean, you know.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Lied about their associations with Epstein, you mean.

[Warren Buffett]

Well, I mean, you know, they've rationalized it one way or another, but. And now it's all getting opened up. And of course, I'm just. I'm so happy the guy didn't. That it didn't stop in Omaha. I mean, I didn't live in New York. If I'd lived in New York at some party, I would have been at some damn thing. And where people always are asking to take a picture. And I usually do. I'm so used to doing it with students. I always do these gag pictures where I'm picking some guy's pocket or proposing to some woman or some damn thing. And, you know, I thank heavens I never came near the guy. And I had read the article in vanity fair in 2003, the one that

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

laid out what a mysterious and strange figure he was.

[Warren Buffett]

It wasn't, as far as somebody's worried about libel suits goes.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Well, it made him sound like a fraud for sure. I've read that article recently. Your suggestion.

[Warren Buffett]

And the. The interesting thing is he got a startup at Bear Stearns, and they knew him. They knew he lied to him on all kinds of things. And H. Greenberg was a good friend of mine. Well, Jimmy Cayne may have been actually running the firm by then, I'm not sure. But Ace Greenberg always was looking for. He had a guy that the son of a friend of mine that he hired just to be his ferret. And his job was to look for anything that was old or large the traders might have stuck in their desk or. I mean, he was worried about people. But somehow Ace was. Daughter, I guess was dated by dating Epstein or something. And that guy must have been the con man of all time.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

It's one thing to be a con man. It's another thing to be trafficking minors.

[Warren Buffett]

Absolutely.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Sexual prostitution.

[Warren Buffett]

Well, and being prosecuted. And even though he managed to jiggle his way through that thing with, you know, whoever the Attorney General was, that one way or another, he did not really spend much time in his cell. But he had a way of conning everybody. I mean, he probably. Who knows what he offered the guys to do that he could count anybody. Have you been concerned he found their weakness?

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Have you been concerned, first of all, have you learned things from the Epstein files?

[Warren Buffett]

Sure. I can't read them myself because my eyesight is so bad, but I've got a friend that reads them avidly for me. And it is astounding to me that anybody could be that successful as a con person. But PT Barnum said it many years ago too. One, porn every minute. And, you know, men are going to like sex and some. Some of them are going to like not paying taxes and whatever it was, he figured out what their weakness was and then he had this ability to prey on them. But that doesn't excuse the people on the other end. I mean, right.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

What are the consequences for what the

[Warren Buffett]

consequences are very likely to be, in my view. Same thing that happened back in 1969 when the Johnson administration left. The Ford foundation hired a whole bunch of people that were let go from government. And. It takes something where Congress feels that they're better off going after the foundations than not. And foundations have got plenty. I mean, money and foundations have plenty of more power in Washington. I mean, it's kind of irritating. We can talk about that later maybe, but. But in 69, I think Wilbur Mills was, as head of the Ways of Means Committee. I don't remember exactly how it came about, but that was the last. That was a big revision of what foundations could do.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Okay.

[Warren Buffett]

I think this is going to have the same effect.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Is there anything that you've read or been read from the Epstein found files that concerns you about the money that you donate to the Gates foundation, money you've given in the past or money that you made.

[Warren Buffett]

There was a lot I didn't know.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Like what?

[Warren Buffett]

What is very clear. Well, I didn't know a lot of things. I mean, there were three trustees of the foundation and I was down with three. Now, we only met once a year. I did not ask probing questions. I mean, you know, if I had. If I thought I had X probably questions, I wouldn't have put the money in in the first place. But, but. And incidentally, the. The guy, the CEO of the foundation wasn't necessarily present during all these things, but he's not the real CEO. I mean, in the end, Bill ran the foundation and And. And it was. And. But I learned, I guess, when the divorce action happened, because I resigned a month later, less than a month later, I think.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

What did you learn then? That.

[Warren Buffett]

I learned that I didn't know what was going on, Which didn't mean something terrible was going on, necessarily, but I certainly didn't know what was going on. We didn't. And I didn't ask the questions either, though. I mean, in terms of being on the foundation board, I made a decision on it in 2006, And I didn't think butting into somebody's marital problems or anything like that was particularly appropriate. Foundation meetings, but they went through and they talked about all these little things that didn't mean anything, and. And then they've hired a few people that are really bad news. You know, I never met any of those people.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

You're talking about Boris Nikolic?

[Warren Buffett]

Yeah.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

I don't even know who's been mentioned pretty prominently in the.

[Warren Buffett]

I've never heard of him. And I. You know, I was on the. That guy so far in the proceedings. I mean, he looked like a terrible guy to employ. Now, I've employed terrible people, but we've gotten rid of them.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Boris Nikolic eventually was gotten rid of at the foundation as well. Have you talked to Bill Gates about any of this?

[Warren Buffett]

I haven't, no. I haven't talked to him at all since the whole. I don't want to be in a position where I know things at the moment. I could get called as a witness.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Are you going to continue to give money to the Gates Foundation? You have every June since 2006?

[Warren Buffett]

Well, yeah, actually, I agreed to do it every year, but I've done it around June 30th most of the time, and I'll wait and see what unfolds. The stock isn't going anyplace. It isn't like I'm giving it all away to something else or won't have it, but I'll wait and see what I've learned. Things I didn't know about something for all these years. I didn't know how the marital thing would play out. I mean, I just didn't know about it. You could guess sometimes that people aren't getting along at a given time, but that's true. In every marriage, there are times when they get irritated with their spouse or something like that. In any event, I'll just wait and see. And there's three of them. Half million or whatever is paged. I mean, it is astounding.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

And the Epstein files.

[Warren Buffett]

The Epstein files. And there's a lot of redacted stuff. And obviously anybody that was involved in Epstein, I mean, they've been miserable probably from the moment they learned that things are going to get released. And the. And they can't bury it now. I mean, it's gone too far.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Are there situations, I guess you're caught in a position where if you.

[Warren Buffett]

The money's all going to get given away? That's right.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

If you don't give the money to the Gates foundation, are you in violation of the pledge that you made? Or if you do give the money, are you condoning the behavior that has taken place that you may or may not, that you may not have? We haven't learned everything potentially yet about.

[Warren Buffett]

That's what I want to learn. I don't have to make that decision today, and I haven't made it today, but I do keep reading things. I mean, somebody reads them for me, actually. And I was always astounded somewhat by the Epstein thing when it was taking place. But what this reveals about humans and the degree, whether it's money or whether it's sex or whatever. I mean, this guy found people's weaknesses, but they did do things. I don't think. If you ask me my personal opinion, I don't think Bill had anything to do with girls or the island or anything like that. But I am learning things about all kinds of stuff when I read this. And it is ruining one person after another. I mean, It's just astounding to me how bad people always do things. I mean, there's consensual sex and all kinds of things. But this guy. How many hours are there in the day? I mean, three and a half million or whatever. His communications and all the thinking that goes into. And he found people's weaknesses and boy, did he know how to use it. And he obviously used this guy borrow somebody and he. He was the woman. Goldman Sachs. I mean, just every place you looked. I've never seen any. And I'm sure that once you get rid of the redacting few things, you know, you're going to learn more.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

So you're waiting to hear what else comes from the files, potentially what comes from congressional hearings.

[Warren Buffett]

Yeah, I think they may change the law on foundations, too.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

You may think. I'm sorry, you think?

[Warren Buffett]

I think. I think there's a good chance. But Congress doesn't act that fast, so. But I. I just think that. That Congress reacts to whatever the public's mad about, and they'll be mad about the Epstein thing, but you Said that you think.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Think they could change the law and foundations as a result?

[Warren Buffett]

I think there could be major foundation hearings

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

and the changes that would go after the foundations that would do what? Strip their tax status?

[Warren Buffett]

Congress will want to look like they're doing something about it. And foundations have done a lot more lobbying in the past. I mean, there's been. Hasn't been any anti foundation lobbying to speak of. And there's been. Foundations are there and everybody goes to Washington. It's astounding to me how, you know, Washington is. It's really become important. That's where the money is doled out. That's where the rules are doled out.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Do you think the foundation. Foundations in general have done good work? Do you think the Gates foundation has done good work?

[Warren Buffett]

Well, I'm sure they've done. I don't think they'd be around if they hadn't done some good work. The question is whether the rules get changed in terms of what they can do or their taxation gets. I mean, look at Harvard. I mean, you know, Once public opinion changes, Congress changes. You know, it's. It's just the way it works.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Are you sorry you've given the money to the Gates Foundation?

[Warren Buffett]

No.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

So you're happy that it's gone?

[Warren Buffett]

No, I mean, I. It's. But I wish that certain things hadn't happened, obviously, but I don't. But it isn't like they're stealing money for themselves or anything like that. I mean, Bill pours his efforts into it. Melinda poured her efforts into it. The present guy that runs it does. He's a guy I'd hire myself, you know, I mean.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Mark Sussman.

[Warren Buffett]

Yeah.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Yeah.

[Warren Buffett]

And I think he's actually the best CEO they've had. You know, and I don't envy his job, but I also. I also think that I'll wait and see. They've got $96 billion that they're sitting

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

on now at the foundation.

[Warren Buffett]

At the foundation, nobody's got anything like that.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Although Bill has also said that he plans to spend that money down pretty rapidly over the next 20 years.

[Warren Buffett]

He's got plenty of his own money. Add to it, I don't know what'll happen.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

There's been, you know, you and Bill and Melinda also created the Giving Pledge, where you got billionaires around the world to sign up and agree that they would give away at least half of their wealth either while they were living or upon their death. And you got hundreds of people to sign up to that.

[Warren Buffett]

200 and some.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Yeah, 250 some people to sign up to that.

[Warren Buffett]

It's astounded to me that we've gotten that many. What Bill has done on which I give him credit for is he's taken it abroad. And you're changing, you're changing the behavior of societies to some small degree. The United States is now they've got it partly by laws in favor too, and everything else. But. But the United States has experiment not only in a lot of other ways, but also actually in terms of private philanthropy and those made small little cracks in that around the world, which I think only defies centuries and centuries of behavior. So the energy he brings to anything he's involved in is incredible. I mean, I'm too lazy. I'm not going to go around the world. I just, you know, I feel we launched something good. And I feel that there is no one that's a member of the Giving Pledge that is giving less than they would have given otherwise. Now, we never told them what to give it to. We never told them when they should give it. We didn't make it a legal pledge. I mean, but we got response on that.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

There has been, there have been some articles written recently about the backlash in certain sectors, technology billionaires in particular, Peter Thiel, Marc Andreessen, who have said that they don't like the Giving Pledge and they think it's woke.

[Warren Buffett]

If they don't like it, they don't have the. They can retire from it. They didn't make a legal pledge anyway. And there may be any one of a lot of reasons why rich people don't like other rich people or who knows what happens. But I would say this, that, well, I just would bet a lot of money that nobody is giving less because of it than they would have otherwise given. And a fair number of people, not, not huge numbers, but not insignificant numbers either are giving it earlier or giving more. The biggest objection that people would raise with me, and it usually was by the mother, was that they just didn't want to become targets of articles about how rich they were. And you can't blame them for that. I mean, they're worried about. They can be worried about anything. But a lot of people joined. One guy even joined because he said, all I want is to have lunch with Becky Quick. I said, I think he didn't follow through, apparently.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

But no, I never heard from him.

[Warren Buffett]

But I mean that if you get a lot of billionaires, you get a lot of peculiar people. But they. Not that that's peculiar. I know I should present you with that, but it was amazing to me. The reception we got, and we just started dialing and we hit the obvious tick. I mean, obviously it's fallen off the rate of additions. And obviously, you know, we made. We generally said we're not judging the people. We're not going to judge whether if they made their money in liquor, we weren't. You know, what counts is what they're doing with it. You know, I mean, that's all we're talking about, is, for God's sakes, you know, give away half of it. And that's so different from for a family that's got a family farm for 100 years, and they planned on giving it to their kids and all kinds of things than it is for some guy like me that just made it in stocks, you know, I mean, it would be a big emotional decision if I were like a bunch of, well, got certain very rich farmers, you know, that own lots of acreage and they've been building it their whole life for their turnover to their kids, and they buy the farm next to them and everything. So I think I feel good about the giving pledge.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

You said you haven't talked to Bill about any of the issues that have come out from the Epstein files. Are you still good friends with him?

[Warren Buffett]

We've had great times together, and he's treated me better than I think he's probably treated anybody else. I mean, he's arranged trips that. Arranged for the kinds of foods I liked, or the Wall Street Journal being in China or what. I mean, he's been terribly thoughtful with me throughout this, but I think until it gets cleared up, I don't. I just don't think it makes sense to do a lot of talking. For one thing, I don't want to be under. My memory's no good anymore. I don't want to be under oath in terms of trying to remember over 30 years or 20 years, the foundations done or anything like that. I didn't have anything to do with it, except I put the money in. But. And you may say you can. You can say, well, you're derelict in not doing it, but I'm giving money on my children's foundations. I've never looked at what they give either. You know, I mean, I just. I trust people, and I think I've trusted very good people. But I think I can see where if somebody gets a guy like Epstein involved in their life, they don't want to talk about it. Yeah, you know, I wouldn't. I mean, it's been very useful to me that Bill never Said, come on along. I want you to meet Epstein. So he could have done things that would have been screwed up my life, but I'd have gone along with them. If he'd said to me after the annual meeting or sometime, and he said, you know, I'm going to New York. Why don't you fly along? And there's this interesting guy or something, I probably would have gone, you know. And so I've got him to thank for not doing that. But you can't get away from what happened either. And you can't get away from the fact that foundations are a peculiar. There's something that our country has really endorsed. I mean, charitable deductions and donor advised funds and all of that sort of thing. And that's worth looking at probably more often than every 30 or 40 years. Foundations, just what they do is they lobby. Just basically leave us alone.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

We have 87 seconds left in the show. Any other thought that you'd like to throw in? Because I don't think we've covered enough ground.

[Warren Buffett]

Well, I think the interesting thing is you've got America, which is the wonder of the world, and at the same time you've got our great number of people. They're just as much human beings as you or I. And, you know, they may not have the same IQ or anything like that, but I think the differentials are too great. But I also think it's worked. So how do you actually solve all that? Through an entity which is basically broken down into two sides that sort of automatically vote against each other no matter what the issue is. I mean.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

You mean Democrats and Republicans?

[Warren Buffett]

Yeah, Democrats and Republicans.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

I mean, we have 20 seconds.

[Warren Buffett]

It's become more partisan than ever and we're more prosperous than ever and anybody ever dreamt. So you have to say capitalism's worth work, but it still needs, you know, I guess we're finished.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

We're finished. Three seconds. Are you a Democrat or a Republican?

[Warren Buffett]

I've been both. And I was actually on the ballot as a Republican in 1960, but. And my dad was very Republican. I went to the Democratic side and now I'm an Independent.

[Joe Kernan (Squawk Box Host)]

Okay, we're going to leave it on that. And that's enough of a tease till the next time we talk with you. But Warren, thank you very much for your time.

[Warren Buffett]

It's a lot of fun.

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[Zach Felici (CNBC Producer)]

Thank you for listening to this special Squawk Pod reports from Omaha with Warren Buffett. Squawk Box is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin. Squawk Pod is produced by me, Zach Valise, Cameron Costa and Katie Kramer. John Lazration is our editor. Have a great day.

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