World Cup Bets, HUD Secretary, & an Unconventional IPO 6/10/26

Summary

Squawk Pod Episode Summary

World Cup Bets, HUD Secretary, & an Unconventional IPO (6/10/26)
Original Air Date: June 10, 2026
Hosts: Joe Kernen, Becky Quick, Andrew Ross Sorkin (off today)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Squawk Pod dives into three major stories:

• The global frenzy and financial implications of the 2026 World Cup—especially the explosion in sports betting.
• An in-depth interview with HUD Secretary Scott Turner on housing affordability and regulatory reform.
• A close look at SpaceX’s unconventional IPO process and its implications for institutional investors, including state pension funds.

Throughout, the tone is lively and analytical, blending high-stakes financial news with candid, sometimes humorous exchanges among the hosts and guests.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Inflation Report & Fed Decision-Making

[02:41 – 03:58]

• The latest CPI shows a 4.2% year-over-year rise—highest since April 2023, driven mostly by oil prices.
• "If today's consumer price index came in hotter than expected, it could put rate hikes on the table. But today the CPI came in right in line with what economists expected." (Joe Kernen, 02:41)
• Panel consensus: The reading may keep the Fed on hold but not move it to hike rates.
  • "I think this stops them more at the hold position than it does at the hike position." (Becky Quick, 03:53)

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2. Escalation in US-Iran Tensions & Market Impacts

[04:01 – 11:09]

• U.S. strikes Iran after an Apache helicopter is downed; Iran retaliates with regional strikes.
• Dan Murphy (CNBC, Abu Dhabi) details the rescue of U.S. aviators via an unmanned drone (Saronic Corsair)—a first for the military.
  • "It's a 24-foot autonomous vessel...because of that vessel, those two American heroes are alive." (Dan Murphy, 06:24)
• Analysis: Diplomacy is hampered, but oil prices indicate markets believe a worst-case scenario is not imminent.
  • "Traders are clinging to the idea that a diplomatic off ramp still exists, as long as President Trump and Iranian officials keep talking, even if they're trading fire." (Dan Murphy, 08:50)
• Discussion about whether Iran is testing U.S. resolve or simply managing internal chaos.

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3. AI & Prediction Markets: Regulation & Risks

[11:09 – 12:54]

• Anthropic announces new AI safeguards (Claude Fable 5) to limit bioweapon and hacking use cases.
• CFTC considers blocking certain prediction market wagers tied to events “not in the public interest.”
• “It really is wild west, right? It really is.” (Andrew Ross Sorkin, 12:54)

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4. 2026 World Cup: Betting Boom

[13:01 – 17:48]

• Contessa Brewer reports live from MetLife Stadium, site of the World Cup final.
  • "This will be the biggest sports betting event ever in the history of the world." (Contessa Brewer, 13:16)
  • Macquarie predicts $50 billion in global wagers; U.S. leaders will be FanDuel and DraftKings.
  • “DraftKings stock closed up 11% yesterday...it gives DraftKings, FanDuel, and Fanatics the entry...to Texas, Florida, and California.” (Contessa Brewer, 15:13)
• Lighthearted debate among the hosts about how soccer bets are handled (three-way vs. two-way money line).
  • “Three-way money lines strictly apply to regulation time only. So you're just a dumb. Better. You should have gone to standard.” (Becky Quick, 17:05, ribbing Andrew)
  • “Yeah, stupid soccer. I think they should be able to use their hands anyway.” (Andrew Ross Sorkin, 17:36)

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5. Affordable Housing: Interview with Secretary Scott Turner

[20:16 – 28:10]

• HUD’s central focus: Slashing regulations to lower housing costs and boost supply.
  • “We’ve been very intentional about tearing down the regulatory environment...What’s causing construction to be delayed? What’s causing the cost of houses to go up?...Regulations is the number one thing.” (Scott Turner, 20:41)
  • $100,000 of the median $426,000 home price is regulatory cost, according to Turner.
• Becky presses Turner about labor shortages and tariffs.
  • Turner pushes back, arguing there are enough Americans to take construction jobs; attributes price issues to regulations, not labor supply or tariffs.
• On recent housing bills, Turner supports legislative cooperation and is “looking forward to the final version.”
• On interest rates: Turner wants rates lowered but stresses “the market has been on a sustainable run.”
• Biggest concern: Misinformation about positive housing initiatives, especially Opportunity Zones:
  • "Opportunity Zones thus far have raised about $100 billion in private money ... creating 400,000 new housing units, 500,000 new jobs, a million people lifted out of poverty. But the media doesn’t talk about this." (Scott Turner, 27:39)

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6. SpaceX’s Unconventional IPO & Pension Fund Stakes

[28:14 – 41:23]

IPO Structure and Market Dynamics

• Leslie Picker reports on SpaceX’s fixed-price, rule-breaking IPO:
  • "In terms of IPO conventions, they're really thrown out the window here. Some applaud Musk’s simplification...Others criticize it as risky and untested." (Narrator/Leslie Picker, 31:41)
  • SpaceX aims to allocate ~30% of shares to retail investors.

Institutional Investors—Pension Funds and Access

• Brad Briner (North Carolina State Treasurer) details state pension investments:
  • $40M in OpenAI, $250M in Anthropic (now worth >$600M).
    • "We manage just about $200 billion for the people of North Carolina, the teachers and the firefighters and the police officers. We're trying to bring them world class investment management..." (Brad Briner, 35:30)
  • “The innovation is fantastic and iconic in many cases. The question is whether the valuation is iconic too.” (Brad Briner, 37:03)
  • On SpaceX: No direct position due to valuation; will own via public index inclusion.
  • “At $1.75 trillion is a big valuation...We will ultimately participate in SpaceX through our index positions in our public equity, but we don’t have any on the private side.” (Brad Briner, 37:41)
  • On S&P changing index rules: Applauds initial discipline, worried about shifting standards.
• Discussion of scale and access challenges for public pension money in private markets.

Memorable Moment

• Ontario Teachers’ Pension Fund’s SpaceX entry: $220 million investment now expected to turn into $11 billion at IPO.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Housing Regulation:
  • "When you look at regulation, it adds up about $100,000 per single family home. That's not sustainable." (Scott Turner, 20:41)
• On World Cup Bets:
  • "No matter what city it's in, this will be the biggest sports betting event ever in the history of the world." (Contessa Brewer, 13:16)
• On Pension Management:
  • "We're trying to bring them world class investment management, which they certainly haven't always had." (Brad Briner, 35:30)
• On IPO Culture Shifts:
  • "I can't even imagine somebody giving a sideways glance at Zuckerberg or anybody else showing up in a hoodie today. We've come a long way." (Becky Quick, 33:07)
• Hosts' Banter:
  • Regarding soccer betting rules:
    • Becky: “You’re just a dumb bettor. You should have gone to standard.” (17:05, teasing Andrew)
    • Andrew: “Yeah, stupid soccer. I think they should be able to use their hands anyway.” (17:36)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:41–03:58| Inflation/CPI & Fed reaction | | 04:01–11:09| U.S.–Iran escalation; drone rescue; oil and markets | | 11:09–12:54| AI safeguards announced; CFTC mulls prediction market restrictions | | 13:01–17:48| World Cup betting surge; on-the-ground with Contessa Brewer; soccer betting debate | | 20:16–28:10| HUD Secretary Scott Turner on housing regulation, affordability, Opportunity Zones | | 28:14–41:23| SpaceX IPO deep dive; pension fund/advisor perspectives; index inclusion debate |

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Conclusion

This episode provides a wide-ranging but focused tour of some of the most pressing intersections in markets, policy, and innovation—from regulatory debates in housing and finance to the spectacle (and speculation) of the World Cup and the financial world’s anticipation of SpaceX’s market debut. The hosts keep the conversation fast-paced and insightful, with expert analysis and some memorable, down-to-earth banter.

Transcript

[Narrator/Commercial Voice]

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[Becky Quick]

Trading at Schwab is now powered by Ameritrade, bringing you an expanding library of education with even more ways to sharpen your trading skills. Access new online courses, insightful webcasts, articles, engaging videos and more, all curated just for traders. Plus guided learning paths with content designed to fit your unique interests and no sifting to find exactly what you need so you can spend your time learning to trade brilliantly. Learn [e-mail] trading bring in show music please.

[Joe Kernen]

This is Squawk Pod and I'm CNBC producer Cameron Costa on today's episode. We are two days out from SpaceX's enormous IPO.

[Contessa Brewer]

Why?

[Joe Kernen]

This listing looks a little different in

[Narrator/Commercial Voice]

terms of IPO conventions. They're really thrown out the window here.

[Joe Kernen]

I mean, it's Elon Musk after all. He's not the only one who stands to benefit, though. It will be a major wealth generation moment for some state pension funds as well. So State Treasurer for North Carolina Brad Briner is watching closely.

[Brad Briner]

We manage just about 200 billion for the people of North Carolina, the teachers and the firefighters and the police officers. And so we're trying to bring them world class investment management which they certainly haven't always had.

[Joe Kernen]

And Housing Secretary Scott Turner on affordability in the United States.

[Scott Turner]

The number one thing I hear what's crippling our housing development is regulations. Regulations on the state level, the local level and at the federal level.

[Joe Kernen]

Plus the US and Iran have exchanged strikes and New York City's Tri state area is gearing up for the World Cup. Contessa Brewer is at the Meadowlands in New Jersey where the final will take place.

[Contessa Brewer]

This will be the biggest sports betting event ever.

[Joe Kernen]

It is Wednesday, June 10, 2026 and Squawkpod begins right now.

[Commercial Voice]

Stand Becky by in 3, 2, 1.

[Becky Quick]

Cuba please.

Good morning everybody. Welcome to Squawk Box right here on cnbc. We are live from the NASDAQ market site in Times Square. I'm Becky Quick along with Joe Kernan. Andrew is off today.

[Joe Kernen]

Up first today, a note on inflation. Today marks the first major reading on consumer inflation Since Kevin Warsh started as Federal Reserve chairman. The big question what the Fed will do with interest rates. The jobs report on Friday came in doubly as strong as economists expected. And that pushed the prospect of a rate cut much further up. If today's consumer price index came in hotter than expected, it could put rate hikes on the table. But today the CPI came in right in line with what economists expected. A year over year rise of 4.2%. The first time it rose above 4% in three years from 4.2 is the highest level since April of 2023. Now oil prices drove about 60% of inflation costs for the month. But stripping out oil and food prices, the monthly gain was below estimates. So what does that mean? Our economics reporter Steve Leesman broke it down.

[Becky Quick]

My question going into this was is

[Brad Briner]

this a number that's going to push

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

other Fed officials through the door towards

[Becky Quick]

being concerned about higher inflation and possibly thinking about hiking rates?

[Brad Briner]

I don't think so.

[Becky Quick]

I think this stops them more at the hold position than it does at the hike position.

[Joe Kernen]

Let's get back to the rest of today's show.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

The US Striking Iran after an American Apache helicopter went down near the Strait of Hormuz and Iran lashing out against its Middle east neighbor. CNBC's Dan Murphy joins us now with more from Abu Dhabi. Dan, you're going to talk about that very cool, what is it called, a Corsair? It was a drone which rescued those two guys. It's got a thousand pound payload and it's not piloted. And they were in the water for a couple of hours I think. And this like almost like a Starbucks coffee little robot or whatever it is. They do everything now. And I saw pictures of it yesterday.

[Dan Murphy]

Pretty cool, pretty extraordinary story coming out of the Middle East, Joe. And also what's striking this morning is just how quickly events here have moved away from diplomacy and back towards military escalation. Less than 48 hours ago you and I were talking about how President Trump was saying the US And Iran were in the final throes of a deal. And then the focus really shifted to the downing of that U.S. apache helicopter near the strait. U.S. central Command saying it responded with self defence strikes targeting Iranian air defense systems, radar sites and ground control facilities. And then of course, the Iranians responded. Iranian state media saying the Revolutionary Guards carried out attacks against U.S. forces in Jordan and targets across Bahrain and Kuwait. Regional militaries here reported missile interceptions and air defence activity with several Gulf states placed back on high alert. Interestingly, what's Also changed this morning is the tone from Tehran on diplomacy. Iran's Foreign Ministry spokesperson saying just a few moments ago, following overnight events, we need to reassess the diplomatic path with Washington. Also adding here that any diplomatic process requires a minimum stable environment. So that doesn't necessarily mean that talks are dead, but it does suggest that the White House, what the White House was describing as kind of an imminent breakthrough, may take even more time now. And it looks as if oil markets are also reflecting that, Joe, on this extraordinary situation with those two U.S. army aviators downed in the Gulf of Oman. They're alive thanks to that rescue mission that was being called a first in US Military history. They were pulled from the water by a ship that was filled, not by a ship that was filled with, with sailors. They were saved by that unmanned drone boat. It's called the Saronic Corsair. As I understand it, it's a 24 foot autonomous vessel. It only arrived in the region in March. And this is a first because this is the US Upping the game here, really attempting to integrate more unmanned tech into the fleet. And it's because of that vessel that that those two American heroes are alive. So again, a pretty extraordinary situation in the Strait of Hormuz and across the region today.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It's fast, apparently. I thought I heard it can go a thousand nautical miles and it's got, it could pick up four or five guys, I guess, because it's got a payload that is pretty significant, too. And the first time we've actually used it, as you said. I mean, that, that's the good part of the story. The rest of it is bizarre, man. I mean, the President looks like he had to respond, but it was very measured when. I'm not sure that's what's called for here because they just are so intransigent. It seems like the people that are very hawkish in the United States are hoping for more action. I think Iran, on the other hand, it seems like they were almost saying, we didn't try to do this, it was an accident, we want to continue negotiations. When they saw that the United States was going to ramp it up again, they seem like they, they don't want that to happen. And they seem, you know, more willing to come to the bargaining table until we do that. Then they start, you know, jerking us around again.

[Dan Murphy]

And there was also this piece in the Wall Street Journal that was quite interesting as well. Before this incident unfolded in the Middle East, President Trump telling the Journal that he didn't feel it was necessary to respond to the downing of that Apache. But then he received new US Intelligence that suggested that the Iranians had used a shahed drone to attack the Apache. So, of course, the United States had to respond. And to give some credit to President Trump here, he has given the Iranians a lot of rope, you know, opening the air for negotiations, suggesting that a deal could be coming near. And, of course, what we have seen is no deal eventuating. And up until now, it seems as if there has been space for those negotiations to take place, but no formal agreement coming forward. So this new kinetic activity in the region, I can tell you firsthand, has surprised a lot of people. Thanks for the markets. I think this is also being reflected in the price of oil, because this was. This was really treated as a headline event rather than kind of a fundamental change in the. In the status quo. You know, no strikes on energy infrastructure. You get a sense traders are clinging to the idea that a diplomatic off ramp still exists as long as President Trump and Iranian officials keep talking, even if they're trading fire. Right. The worst case scenario isn't real yet, which maybe helps to explain why oil is still pulling a little lower this morning.

[Becky Quick]

Dan, I think the biggest question is, is this a situation where the Iranians are intentionally testing the President and the United States, or is this a situation where there's so much chaos and no real clear line of command in terms of who's in charge and who's calling the shots on these things?

[Dan Murphy]

Yeah, absolutely. Fair point, Becky. I think historically, if you look at how the Iranians have negotiated in the past, they draw things out. They are attempting to buy more time here to try and extract more leverage, try and demonstrate that they can still exert control over the Strait of Hormuz, for example, which is part of the reason that a shahed drone was even operating in that area in the first place. Again, the Iranians attempting to demonstrate military capability here, that would keep them on top in these negotiations. The White House, of course, having none of that. So, look, I think what happens next in the region will have to be really closely watched. So far, there is a sense of calm in the markets, maybe a sense of trepidation in the region about what's going to happen here. But I was also speaking with one analyst this morning who suggested that even though it looks as if the ceasefire has effectively broken here, what we are likely to see is perhaps what happens next, really coming back to how much both sides are willing to show restraint and a willingness to actually come back to the negotiation table and Get a deal. Done.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Okay. All right, Dan. Never a dull moment. Thank you. Anthropic is announcing new AI technology that is similar to Mythos. That's the update that sparked widespread concerns over cyber security earlier this year. Among other things, a new model called Claude Fable 5 is similar to Mythos, but contains safeguards that block responses to users in some high risk areas, like not only cybersecurity, but biology. Think about that. That's all we need. Experts have been concerned that users could try to use models like Anthropic's model to create biological or chemical weapons. In addition to exploiting the digital security, vulnerable vulnerabilities and Cloud, Fable 5 will be available to Anthropic's enterprise customers and paid subscribers. Wall Street Journal is reporting that the CFTC will propose new rules for prediction markets. The regulator will seek the ability to block wagers if it finds they aren't in the public interest or that seem highly susceptible to manipulation. That includes bets on war, terrorism, assassination, and in sports player injuries and first pitch gambling. I mean, you need an alphabetical list of things that would qualify. And then also front page of the Journal talks about, you're going to need to know who these people are that are betting and where they work and what kind of information they have access to.

[Becky Quick]

It's just right. It opens up a really wide morass. It's one thing when it's publicly traded information, you know, on companies that you can track, but this is weird stuff.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And you can do it. It's great that you can. Until they figure it out, you can do it. It's wild west, right? It really is.

[Becky Quick]

The World cup begins tomorrow. It is also the kickoff of a massive sports betting opportunity. Contessa Brewer joins us now with more on that front. And Contessa, this is it. This is the biggie.

[Contessa Brewer]

We are raring to go here. Becky. Now I'm watching. There are signs covering MetLife Stadium. FIFA calls this New York, New Jersey stadium for the World Cup. It says so right there because of its clean stadium sponsorship rules. But no matter what it's called, no matter what city it's in, this will be the biggest sports betting event ever in the history of the world. Macquarie predicts $50 billion globally will be wagered on the matches. And the analyst says fanduel parent Flutter is best positioned to take advantage of because of its global reach. It operates in Australia, in the uk, in Italy, Brazil, where CEO Peter Jackson told me soccer is a religion. Like, we needed an expert to tell us that. Deutsche bank estimates Fanduel could take in $1.3 billion in the US alone, followed by DraftKings with 1.1 billion. Macquarie says Rush Street Interactive also could see outsized gains. It has a strong presence in Latin America. And then watch for the boost to data providers Genius Sports and Sportradar and Sport Radar just had news this week inked a deal with Kalshee, the predictions platform with whom CNBC has a commercial relationship. Predictions, of course. And you were just talking about them guys. Predictions going gaga for World Cup. Kalshee says it's growing exponentially as we head toward tomorrow's kickoff. It's offering more than 500 markets related to World cup cup and the men's final event contract is currently topping $128 million in volume. Spain and France are topping the leaderboard probability of about 16% of winning the whole kit and caboodle. Polymarket tells me it did $5.4 billion in soccer trading volume over the last year. So that's worldwide. And DraftKings stock I wanted to mention this closed up 11% yesterday on its May predictions results 34% month over month growth. Now look, it's still dwarfed by DraftKings sports betting action, but it's growing and it gives DraftKings and FanDuel and Fanatics the entry guys to Texas and Florida and California where currently they have either no gaming license or no acts no no access to legal sports betting in some states.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I'm into public service announcement here, Contessa. Just I'm still really angry about this and bettors beware. If you bet on a football game and they win in sudden death, the team that wins, you get paid off. You bet basketball and if it goes overtime, you win depending on who the team is that win. If it goes extra innings in baseball and you got the Reds and they win, you win. You know what happens with soccer? You know, do you know what happens with soccer? Do you know what happens if it's a top law?

[Contessa Brewer]

If it's, if it's declared and then

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

they kick and someone wins, you don't win. I looked at my, my I'm like I was so excited about oh, I won.

[Becky Quick]

You don't win in sudden death.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You don't win. I, I, it was I think for the finals or and I never would bet on soccer but I did one time and I picked the right team and and they ended up winning but it was tied in regulation.

[Becky Quick]

Is that because it so frequently goes

[Contessa Brewer]

yeah, I think that's really very curious because if then to the next round. That doesn't make any sense.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I think maybe there's some ties that stand, don't they?

[Scott Turner]

I don't know.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I don't know enough about it.

[Becky Quick]

I thought you went to sudden death too and it wouldn't.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I know. Maybe there it happened. I remember because you can see I'm still. I could have really used that.

[Contessa Brewer]

Here's what your problem is.

[Becky Quick]

The standard two way money line is you bet a three way money line. That's what happened.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah, I bet a three way.

[Becky Quick]

Three way money line. The market offers a third betting option, tire draw. Three way money lines strictly apply to regulation time only. So you're just a dumb. Better. You should have gone to standard.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, whatever. I'm still. I could have used. I could have used that. I could have used that $5.

[Becky Quick]

You've been missing it ever since.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I could have used. I could have used.

[Becky Quick]

Three way money line means it ends in regulation. Yeah, three way money line ends in regulation.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It was like user error probably.

[Becky Quick]

No, it really isn't. Three way money line. That's the way it works. But not your standard two way.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Be aware. Yeah, stupid soccer. I think they should be able to use their hands anyway.

[Becky Quick]

With them you can if you're the goalie.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

That's right. Well, if he can. It's just not fair.

[Becky Quick]

Cheese will be next.

[Joe Kernen]

Coming up on Squawk Pod, Housing and Urban Development Secretary Scott Turner joins us.

[Scott Turner]

We've been very intentional about tearing down the regulatory environment and also encouraging local governments and state governments take inventory of your regulation. What's crippling development?

[Joe Kernen]

Homeownership month right after this break.

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[Becky Quick]

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[Joe Kernen]

fellow Kosentics advocate Chef Michelle Bernstein.

[Becky Quick]

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[Joe Kernen]

Welcome back to SQUAWK POD TODAY with Joe Kernan and Becky Quick.

[Becky Quick]

It is National Home Ownership Month, and with high mortgage rates and millions of Americans priced out of the market, the Trump administration is working on plans to try and cut regulation and boost affordable housing, Housing and Urban Development Secretary Scott Turner joins us this morning. And Secretary, thank you for being here.

[Scott Turner]

Thank you, Becky. Great to be here.

[Becky Quick]

All right. Let's talk about the state of the American housing situation at this point. Where do things stand?

[Scott Turner]

Well, as you alluded to, the president has been laser focused on bringing housing costs down and making homes more affordable for the American people. As I travel around the country and I've been to over 40 unique cities already in the last 15 months, the number one thing I hear what's crippling our housing development is regulations, regulations on the state level, the local level and at the federal level. So we've been very intentional about tearing down the regulatory environment and also encouraging local governments and state governments take inventory of your regulation. What's crippling development? What's causing construction to be delayed? What's causing the cost of houses to go up? And so regulations is the number one thing. We just released our best practices report, our regulatory best practices report, which I encourage people to go look at to help cities and states say, hey, how can we ease the permanent process? How can we modernize our processes? How can we get rid of duplicative fees? When you look at regulation, it adds up about $100,000 per single family home. That's not sustainable, $100,000. Think about this, Becky.

[Becky Quick]

It's more than just a few Fees along the way.

[Scott Turner]

It is, it's fees, it's zone and it's duplicative processes. The median price of a home in America is about $426,000. $100,000 of that is in regulations. In the regulatory environment, if you take that away, it brings down the cost of a house so more Americans can't afford to buy. So regulations taking that cost down, bringing supply up, we're laser focused on it.

[Becky Quick]

One of the biggest complaints that I remember hearing from under the Biden administration was that any push for affordable housing required that you use union workers to go along with it. And some builders will complain and say that that was not something that was going to lead to affordable housing. How do you do this and still make getting good paying jobs that are coming out of these things?

[Scott Turner]

Well, if you think about in America, you know, America was built on the backs of hardworking people. I came out of development industry, construction industry. We need to increase our trades, and this is just a side note, increase our trades in America for welders, for plumbers, for builders, in the construction industry. But these are great paying jobs. But again, because of the regulatory environment, all the fees go up, which makes the cost of building go up, which makes it harder to get good labor and good tradesmen. So when you tear down these regulations and you make it easier to build and easier to buy, job paying goes up. The more people you need, it goes up as far as the trade. And so it's all really together. And when you take this regulatory environment down, costs go down, supply goes up and jobs are created.

[Becky Quick]

No question that regulatory overreach has impacted the cost of housing coming in. But it's also been impacted by fewer immigrants being allowed into the country to work in some of these trades. It's been impacted by the tariffs that have created higher prices for lumber and so forth. How do you come?

[Scott Turner]

Well, yeah, I'm a pushback on that. From the immigration standpoint, we have enough American people to take American jobs. You know, when you look at what

[Becky Quick]

a pretty good labor market, right. We have a relatively low unemployment rate. We do have 4.3 from small businesses, is that they can't find the labor.

[Scott Turner]

About 4.3 unemployment rate, which is good. You know, the, the market is very sustainable right now, but we have enough American people to take American jobs. When you look at tens of millions of people coming across our border unchecked, unvetted, from a HUD standpoint, I'm not

[Becky Quick]

looking for unchecked immigration stretch.

[Scott Turner]

No, I know that. But from A HUD standpoint. From a housing standpoint, it makes the costs go up for housing. Houses for American people are taken by those that are not here legally. So it all comes together. We have enough American people for the American jobs.

[Becky Quick]

What about the idea of higher lumber prices and other issues that have come through from the tariffs? Because some of the builders we've had on the program.

[Scott Turner]

Yeah, and I understand that, but the president's laser focus on that to bring those costs down as well, and the builders know it. You know, home sales have gone up the last of the highest they've been since December. And so I'm not concerned about that. Consumer confidence is high. Builders just need these regulations to come down.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Mr. Secretary, you like either one of the versions of the 21st century road to housing that. Well, I mean, I understand the idea. It almost sounds like you're layering, layering some new regulations, you know, with institutional ownership, sort of. I guess they softened it in the House, some of the precluding, not allowing them to do it. But the arguments were, yeah, it sounds good in a populous way, but a lot of institutions fund the housing and then you get, you know, it helps with people that are going to rent and it helps in the upkeep of a lot of. A lot of places. Do you like everything about that law? You know, what's your perfect law?

[Scott Turner]

Yeah, the House and the Senate, you know, one thing I'm glad that they're working together to get a comprehensive bill, you know, as it pertains to housing. We've given our comments as it pertains to HUD and the road to housing bill, things that will impact hud. And so we've had great conversations with the leader, Mike Johnson, and with Senator Thune's team and Senator Tim Scott. I know they're all working very hard on this bill, which I'm glad about. The president is supportive of the bill, so I'm hopeful that in due time they'll get something across the finish line. I don't think that, you know, coming from the legislature, you're not going to like everything and every bill that comes to the House or the Senate. But we have been involved in it from a HUD standpoint, but I'm looking forward to the final version.

[Becky Quick]

We have interest rates have picked up recently, and that's been a huge issue that the president's been concerned about. I think many people will look at affordability and say it's going to be more difficult if you don't lower interest rates. Where are you anticipating mortgage Rates are going to be. And what does it mean if we don't see a rate cut this year?

[Scott Turner]

Well, you know, obviously, you know, that's my lane of expertise as far as where the mortgage rates will be. I know they're humming around, but still 63 or 64 right now. But again, you know, since December, the high sale price of home sales have gone up. People buying houses, if you will. And so I think consumers, yes, we all want the interest rates to go down, but people are still buying homes. I don't know what the Fed is going to do. Obviously, I want them to come down. The President wants them to come down for the American people. But the market has been on a sustainable run. It's been fluctuating. But as I look at it, Becky, our market is strong, economy is strong, the President is laser focused on domestic poly and securing our homeland to make sure that the American people are safe. And I think the Americans trust that.

[Becky Quick]

What's your biggest concern when you look out there right now?

[Scott Turner]

You know, my biggest concern is that the people get the right information, you know, because there's good things going on in our country from a policy standpoint. If you look at the working family tax cut or the one big beautiful bill that was passed, those policies are going to bless the American people now and for the long term. When you look at the permanency of Opportunity Zones, which I've had a big role in, leading Opportunity zones, that's going to create long term sustainability and growth in our country. But the mainstream media doesn't talk about these things. And so people in our country, they're not getting all the correct information. And that's a concern because the Opportunity

[Becky Quick]

zones to make sure that investors will put money into these areas and spend to make sure that they're right.

[Scott Turner]

So Opportunity Zones thus far have raised about $100 billion in private money to go in some of the most distressed communities in our country, creating 400,000 new housing units, 500,000 new jobs, a million people lifted out of poverty. But the media doesn't talk about this. But that is really going on in America. And so I do the best thing I can to be an ambassador for these policies to share with the American people that good things are happening. And just keep being steadfast and confident because great days are ahead.

[Becky Quick]

Secretary Turner, thank you.

[Scott Turner]

Thank you, thank you.

[Joe Kernen]

Next on Squawk pod. We are two days away from Space X's IPO.

[Narrator/Commercial Voice]

IPOs can present a unique battleground where nonconformity can be either rewarded or punished. And as order books close today, in about eight hours time, we'll begin to get a sense of of whether SpaceX's unique process has been a boon for the deal or a barrier and the

[Joe Kernen]

many winners of that IPO.

[Becky Quick]

If all goes well, the Ontario teachers put in $220 million seven years ago and I think they're going to see a payoff of $11 billion.

[Joe Kernen]

Brad Briner, treasurer of North Carolina, on the state's pensions stake in anthropic OpenAI and the eventual stake in SpaceX.

[Brad Briner]

The innovation is fantastic and iconic in many cases. The question is whether the valuation is iconic too.

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[Scott Turner]

Hey Fidelity.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Can I get a second opinion on

[Scott Turner]

stocks in the Fidelity app?

[Joe Kernen]

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[Becky Quick]

That's right.

[Joe Kernen]

I am always right.

[Brad Briner]

Investing involves risk, including risk of loss. $0 commission does not apply to customers designated by Fidelity as a professional equity trader. A limited number of ETFs are subject to a service fee of $100. See [e-mail] commissions Fidelity Brokerage Services LLC Member NYSE SFPC

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[Joe Kernen]

This is Squawkpod.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You're watching Squawkbox on cnbc. I'm Joe Kernan along with Becky Quick. Andrew is off the day, just two days now until SpaceX is expected to begin trading right here at the Nasdaq. Reuters says investor demand for the IPO currently stands at about $250 billion, versus the 75 billion the company wants to raise. That's more an indication of how demand is tracking rather than a hard number. According to the report, long only funds have submitted some sizable orders for the sale of shares.

[Becky Quick]

Elon Musk is taking his Rocket company public in an Unconventional way. Leslie Picker joins us with more on this. And Leslie, it seems like the buildup is growing every day as we get closer to that ipo.

[Narrator/Commercial Voice]

Yeah, every minute of every day. Becky, you're right. Elon Musk is doing the Space X IPO his way. Typically, you'd have a price range to market the deal. In this case, it's a fixed price of $135 per share. Usually, executives from an IPOing company would abide by a quiet period here. Elon Musk did a live stream over X with JP Morgan's Jamie Dimon and SpaceX's CFO Bret Johnson, and he sat down with investor Gavin Baker for an interview that was published on X. And normally, retail allocation would be a mere sliver of the offering, but SpaceX is targeting about 30% for individual investors. In terms of IPO conventions, they're really thrown out the window here. Some applaud Musk's simplification of the process and removal of the usual friction and gamesmanship involved. Others criticize it as risky and untested, especially since the $75 billion debut would be the largest of all time. Guys, remember Mark Zuckerberg when he famously showed up to the Facebook IPO Roadshow and in 2012, wearing a casual hoodie and faced major Wall street backlash over it, rankling some investors who saw it as immature and disrespectful. Institutional investors have learned a lot about and embraced tech culture in the ensuing 14 years. But IPOs can present a unique battleground where nonconformity can be either rewarded or punished. And as order books close today, in about eight hours time, we'll begin to get a sense of whether Space X is unique. Process has been a boon for the deal or a barrier.

[Becky Quick]

Guys, I can't even imagine somebody giving a sideways glance at Zuckerberg or anybody else showing up in a. In a hoodie today. We've come a long way.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

John Fetterman. John who? And there's actually, there's a FedEx commercial and a lot. Several commercials about what a power play is in corporate America. And one of them is a guy in a hoodie.

[Becky Quick]

Oh, that's right.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And he looks really. They picked the actor they got, I

[Becky Quick]

guess, looks like a slacker.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah. And he says things like sick and cool. And everybody else looks at him like, you're like such a tool. You know, you can.

[Becky Quick]

It is a flex.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Can I have to say that a tool? I'm not really sure.

[Becky Quick]

Anyway, Leslie, thank you.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I think he wears it pretty well.

[Becky Quick]

I think he does too.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I still like the Jesse Eisenberg Mark Zuckerberg better than the Mark Zuckerberg you've

[Becky Quick]

been trained by media. Joining us right now is a state treasurer whose portfolio holds stakes in Anthropic and Open Air and who will be an owner of Space X once it joins Key Indexes. Right now we want to bring in Brad Briner. He is North Carolina's state treasurer. And Brad, thank you very much for being with us today. We don't often think of state treasurers being the ones who are buying some of these big purchases in not yet public, publicly traded companies. How did you first get involved with Open Air and Anthropic?

[Brad Briner]

Sure. So I've been treasurer 18 months and it's been an interesting journey so far. But the 25 years prior to that, I was in the investment business running Mike Bloomberg's family office, among other things. So familiar with these companies from my time there. Saw the promise of the technology that underlies these for our country and for our state and wanted our state to benefit from their successes. So we looked for those stakes over the course of the last 18 months and have been successful in being able to invest in some of these iconic companies, but certainly not all of them.

[Becky Quick]

Yeah. Let's talk about the amounts that you've invested and I do think that your background managing money like this is a huge, huge advantage. A lot of times you have elected officials who don't necessarily have that background. You own what in terms of OpenAI, I think it's about $40 million at cost that you put in. And then when it comes to anthropic. $600 million.

[Commercial Voice]

Correct.

[Brad Briner]

We put in a quarter billion into Anthropic earlier this year. That is now worth a little bit over 600. We managed just about 200 billion for the people of North Carolina, the teachers and the firefighters and the police officer. We're trying to bring them world class investment management, which they certainly haven't always had.

[Becky Quick]

And when you got involved with those companies, I mean, should I read into it that you put $250 million into open into anthropic versus $40 million into OpenAI that you like what you saw with Anthropic better?

[Brad Briner]

Well, certainly you can read that into it in part. But there's also serious capacity challenges in these companies. It's not a secret that they are world leading innovation. It's not a secret to a lot of investors that there's likely substantial future gains in these positions as a result. So there are Real capacity challenges in getting money to work in these companies in the private markets. So we fight that as well.

[Becky Quick]

Capacity, meaning you couldn't get enough access to it or meaning, I'm sorry, explain that a little bit.

[Brad Briner]

Correct, yeah. So we manage $200 billion. So trying to build a real position is challenging at that scale of money. And we're not the only investor trying to do that. So you're routinely trying to fight to get sufficient dollars to work into compelling investment situations in the pension world particularly. And so sometimes we get all we want, sometimes we don't. And that is partly reflected in the position size as well.

[Becky Quick]

Do you like one of the companies over the other, or are you just kind of scrambling at this point to get access to any of these hot properties?

[Brad Briner]

Not any of them. We're pretty deliberate in the ones that we think are going to be great businesses and are reasonably priced. I think the innovation is fantastic and iconic. In many cases, the question is whether the valuation is iconic too. And so we have to factor that in. And every decision we make, we saw an opportunity anthropic, which we thought was completely mispriced earlier this year. If you use that technology, you see how powerful it is. You were talking about Mythos earlier and that is truly an amazing level of artificial intelligence. So we wanted to be involved in that.

[Becky Quick]

Could you not get access to SpaceX? Is that why you don't own it? At this point?

[Scott Turner]

We could.

[Brad Briner]

There's been a pricing issue that we've been concerned about for the last year so with SpaceX. Again, Elon Musk, an amazing entrepreneur, incredible technology to launch business, Starlink, et cetera. But at some point things are fully priced. We're trying to make a high single digit predictable rate of return for our retirees and we've got to consider valuation when we do that. And so certainly SpaceX at $1.75 trillion is a big valuation. And so we will ultimately participate in SpaceX through our index positions in our public equity, but we don't have any on the private side.

[Becky Quick]

Does that mean are you a fan of them getting wrapped into the index at this point or not? There has been some controversy around that because the rules were changed to allow them into the index sooner than would have been happening otherwise.

[Brad Briner]

Let me say it this way, I'm pretty impressed with S and P for not changing their rules, some real pressure to do so, and I appreciate them sticking to their discipline. I understand the scale of these companies and how important they are, but we rely on index rules for A reason. They represent the broad swath of the American economy and they give us exposure to companies that meet certain criteria. And so changing them on a moments notice to accommodate a single IPO is a little troubling, but I certainly understand why they've done it. But I do have a lot of respect for S and P sticking to their guns.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah, that and a quarter will get them a cup of coffee. That they did. We're at the nasdaq. We're glad the NASDAQ went for it. At least I am. I don't know. And my other question. So a year ago, when you decided not to participate in SpaceX, I think you said that it wasn't at 1.75 trillion. Then did you. Did you turn down the. Or the opportunity to buy into SpaceX at like $500 billion?

[Brad Briner]

We didn't have that opportunity. At scale?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

No, didn't have an opportunity. What could you have? Did you have an opportunity to participate

[Brad Briner]

in SpaceX a year ago at 5 or $10 million? Sure. At 5 or $10 million, yes. On a $200 billion base, though, we didn't think it was appropriately valued and obviously we're wrong. But it certainly wouldn't move the needle at scale anyway.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah. What was it valued at when you said no to the 5 or 10 million investment?

[Brad Briner]

I believe it was in the $700 billion range.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Okay. Yeah. That still would have been pretty good.

[Brad Briner]

Right? But anthropic's been better.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah, that's true.

[Brad Briner]

It is always a relative business.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

That's right. You can't buy everything. I guess in hindsight, it's 2020 and everything else. There was a time when Elon Musk didn't. I mean, do you remember he said it was all riding on one launch that wasn't that long ago where if that launch hadn't worked, would there be a SpaceX at this point? His whole. I mean, talk about rolling the dice.

[Becky Quick]

That guy, he probably could have put some more money into it.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I guess he could have just supported.

[Brad Briner]

But they were out of money in a prior job. I got the pitch in 2011 for SpaceX and we thought it was pretty fantastic. We had a small exposure that's become a very big exposure for a prior institution.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

That's funny.

[Becky Quick]

I was going to say the Ontario teachers put in $220 million seven years ago, and I think they're going to see a payoff of $11 billion at the IPO based on that. So being early has massive advantages. And I guess it's hard for oftentimes pension funds to get access to some of those things. It sounds like you are really trying to push and move the needle when it comes to that, though.

[Scott Turner]

We are.

[Brad Briner]

There are scale challenges that are very real what we're trying to manage. But it's also access premium, so to speak. Pension fund investors, appropriately so, are very public about what we do. And many of these private companies don't have any interest in that. So we're a little bit disadvantaged through that public disclosure. But of course, these are public money, so we have to disclose things publicly and we should, which leads us to having a challenge often in getting access to some of the most innovative companies in the private market.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You did. You just managed money for Mike. You weren't. You were never part of any of his campaigns, were you? No.

[Brad Briner]

I worked for Mike on the family office side for a dozen years. I had a fantastic experience.

[Scott Turner]

Maybe.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Mom, Donnie's got a family office side we don't know about at this point. Are you available?

[Brad Briner]

But I'm pretty happy to be down here in North Carolina, let me tell you that.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It's a good place to. Oh, my God. Yeah, you're not here anymore anyway.

[Brad Briner]

Not a New York taxpayer anymore either.

[Becky Quick]

Joe.

[Joe Kernen]

That's Squawk Pod for today. Thank you for listening. Squawkbox is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick and Andrew Ross Sorkin weekday mornings on cnbc Starting at 6am Eastern to get the smartest takes and analysis from that TV show right into your ears. Follow Squawkpod wherever you get your podcasts. We'll meet you right back here tomorrow. Have a great day.

[Brad Briner]

We are clear.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Thanks, guys.

[Scott Turner]

Building a portfolio with Fidelity Basket Portfolios is kind of like making a sandwich. It's as simple as picking your stocks and ETFs, sort of like your meats and other topics and managing it as one big, juicy investment.

[Commercial Voice]

Mmm.

[Becky Quick]

Now that's pretty good.

[Scott Turner]

Learn [e-mail] baskets Investing involves risks, including risk of loss. Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC Member nyse, SIPC.