Helping the Most Vulnerable Teens

Summary

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Squeezed with Yvette Nicole Brown

Episode 4: Helping the Most Vulnerable Teens

Date: September 4, 2024
Host: Yvette Nicole Brown
Guest: Shilpa, Director of CARES Program at Mount Sinai

Overview

This episode of Squeezed dives into the realities of supporting at-risk teens through the lens of Shilpa, a psychologist and director of the Comprehensive Adolescent Rehabilitation and Education Service (CARES) in Harlem. Yvette Nicole Brown explores what it means to care for some of New York City’s most vulnerable youth, the daily balancing act between compassion and systemic constraints, and the lifelong impact such programs can have—not only on the students but also on the caregivers themselves. The episode also offers candid insights from Shilpa’s personal journey, a behind-the-scenes look at CARES, and practical wisdom for parents and caregivers navigating the adolescent years.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Shilpa's Morning Routine: Grounding the Caregiver

• [00:07 – 02:17]
  • Shilpa’s day starts early, integrating exercise and mindfulness (rowing machine, acupressure mat, “The Power of Now”) as self-care.
  • She balances caregiving at work and home, with a son and a cat, highlighting the universality of caregiver exhaustion.
  • Quote:
    “Caring for yourself while caring for others is an important balancing act when you’re doing it at home and at work.” — Yvette Nicole Brown [02:33]

Building a Therapeutic School Environment

• [03:42 – 04:51]
  • Shilpa gives a “tour” of her cozy, inviting office—emphasizing warmth and approachability, with student photos, lamps, and team keepsakes like Halloween costume mugs.
  • She has led CARES for 15 years and values tradition and inclusion.
  • Quote:
    “Some of these puzzles… a couple of valentines I got from my son. Dear Mom, I love you.” — Shilpa [04:03]

Shilpa’s Adolescence and Motivation

• [05:25 – 06:42]
  • Growing up as one of the only brown students in a white suburb while also immersed in Indian community life led to her sense of dual identity.
  • Early exposure to mental health struggles within her community and family shaped her path.
  • Quote:
    “There’s just kind of an inherent responsibility that comes with [being the eldest], regardless of your background.” — Shilpa [05:25]

Inside the CARES Program

• [06:42 – 08:26]
  • CARES is a clinical/educational “one stop shop” for teens ages 14–21 facing mental health, substance, academic, social, and family challenges.
  • Students attend for a year, get standard diplomas, but also receive intensive therapeutic support.
  • School is filled with inclusivity: pride flag, Black Lives Matter, daily gratitude posters.
  • Notable moment:
    Shilpa jokes about being “biased” as the word picker for the math class spelling bee. [07:29]

What Makes a School ‘Therapeutic’

• [08:26 – 08:56]
  • Shilpa argues that all schools should be therapeutic, yet most are not.
  • At CARES, clinicians work alongside teachers to “destigmatize the idea that I might need help in the moment.”
  • Quote:
    “It’s a bit redundant in that school should be therapeutic… and it’s not, and so we do that here.” — Shilpa [08:26]

Holistic, Preventative Approach for Teens and Families

• [08:56 – 10:17]
  • Students referred via schools, therapists, CPS, legal system, and families—insurance and Medicaid are accepted.
  • Focus on preventing hospitalization and addressing family dynamics.
  • Many families are “eroded down by discrimination or misdiagnosis or racism.”
  • Quote:
    “There is no way to treat a child or a teen in isolation from their family system.” — Shilpa [09:48]

Real-Time Family Therapy (Shai and Shayla’s Story)

• [11:26 – 13:26]
  • Listen in on a family therapy session: Shai (student) and Shayla (mom), guided by therapist Emily.
  • Shai opens up about boundary violations and trauma; the process brings vulnerability, sorrow, and emotional walls.
  • Memorable exchange:
    “In my past, people have crossed boundaries… when people cross boundaries after I set them, it pisses me off… makes me feel unsafe. Cause of past trauma.” — Shai [12:37]
    “How does that feel for you to hear, Shayla?” — Shilpa [12:53]
    “Scare.” — Shayla [12:57]

Accountability vs. Punishment

• [14:32 – 15:08]
  • CARES avoids punitive approaches—students aren’t expelled for acting out, instead focusing on helping them take responsibility.
  • Quote:
    “Punished is not giving you a chance to respond and take ownership… Rather than keeping your locus of control external… let’s find the thing you can be in control of.” — Shilpa [14:39]

Former Student Perspective: Chris’s Story

• [15:36 – 16:55]
  • Chris, a CARES graduate and “rebellious, emotionally illiterate kid,” found support and belonging.
  • He now seeks to “pay it forward” by mentoring current students.
  • The enduring relationships illustrate CARES’ impact.
  • Quote:
    “There was always support around the corner… I definitely found some kind of peace, whether I liked to admit it back then or not.” — Chris [15:55]

The System vs. Humanity: Burnout, Advocacy, and Self-Care

• [17:06 – 19:17]
  • Shilpa juggles leadership, finances, supports 200+ staff—describes the need for morning rituals to “come back to my core.”
  • She balances advocating for teens, supporting her team, and meeting external systemic demands.
  • Quote:
    “The trick for us is to maintain our humanity and not let the humanity go.” — Shilpa [17:48]
  • On the toll of the work:
    “There are days when I… start to feel those thoughts of why are you even doing this work… why don’t you just go and get that farm upstate and only deal with animals, not people?” — Shilpa [18:38]

Systemic Barriers: Insurance Inequalities

• [20:00 – 20:37]
  • Insurance—especially for middle-class families with commercial insurance—creates unpredictable obstacles to care.
  • Quote:
    “It’s just a very strange setup here of like who’s going to be allowed to access the multitude of programs that are designed.” — Shilpa [20:27]

Race, Gender, and Challenging the Status Quo

• [20:37 – 21:45]
  • Few women of color in leadership is a persistent problem; her experience with DEI (diversity, equity, inclusion) made her newly aware of barriers she had previously simply navigated.
  • Personal story: Father’s affirmation of his daughters’ worth in the face of cultural misogyny:
    “Girls can do anything they want, so why would that be a problem?” — Shilpa [21:49]

Parenting and Caregiving Wisdom

• [22:28 – 24:19]
  • The teenage years are universally about “finding oneself.”
  • Adults need to remember what being a teen felt like; unresolved parental anxieties often drive overbearing behavior.
  • Quote:
    “If we can connect on that level… there’s just magic can happen.” — Shilpa [23:02]
    “You actually need to have conflict, especially with teens. Part of what they’re developmentally wired to do is to push up against adults. If we can allow them to do that safely, we have a much better chance…” — Shilpa [23:56]

At Home: Talking with Her Own Son

• [24:37 – 25:17]
  • Shilpa discusses difficult topics like addiction with her son from a non-preachy, human place, trying not to “overload” but also not to fully shield.
  • Parenting is a “rollercoaster,” but it can also be “riding a wave.”
  • Quote:
    “You can either be really stiff and strict and that wave’s gonna hit you and it’s gonna be so painful… The more you try to fight it with this rigidity and this ‘I’m right, you’re wrong,’ it just gets harder and harder.” — Shilpa [25:26]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Human vs. System:
  “The trick for us is to maintain our humanity and not let the humanity go.” — Shilpa [17:48]

• Redefining Accountability:
  “Punished is not giving you a chance to respond and take ownership… let’s find the thing you can be in control of.” — Shilpa [14:39]

• Therapeutic Schooling Philosophy:
  “It’s a bit redundant in that school should be therapeutic… and it’s not, and so we do that here.” — Shilpa [08:26]

• On Parenting Adolescents:
  “You actually need to have conflict, especially with teens… they’re developmentally wired to push up against adults.” — Shilpa [23:56]

• On Riding the Waves of Care:
  “You can see that [the wave] is coming, acknowledge that and anticipate it… and you will still be standing here.” — Shilpa [25:26]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Highlight | |-------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:07–02:17 | Shilpa’s morning self-care and family routine | | 03:42–04:51 | Tour of Shilpa’s office; environment as therapy | | 05:25–06:42 | Shilpa’s upbringing and early sense of responsibility | | 06:42–08:26 | Inside CARES: holistic, inclusive therapeutic school | | 11:26–13:26 | Listening in on a family therapy session (Shai & Shayla) | | 14:32–15:08 | Accountability vs. punishment; cultivating agency | | 15:36–16:55 | Former student Chris’s transformation and ongoing bond | | 17:06–19:17 | Navigating burnout and self-care as a leader | | 20:00–20:37 | The unpredictability and impact of insurance access | | 23:56–24:19 | The necessity and value of conflict in adolescent development | | 25:26–26:19 | Surfing the waves of parenting and caregiving |

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Conclusion: The Caregiving Balance

The episode concludes by reframing the challenge of caregiving for teens as a balancing act: navigating the tension between authority and empathy, systems and humanity, stability and flexibility. Shilpa’s story—and those of her students—demonstrate the transformative power of patience, presence, and persistent advocacy within and against “the system.” At its heart, the work is about giving young people the unconditional space to struggle, grow, and find themselves—while remembering, as caregivers, to ground oneself in purpose and self-care.

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For parents, educators, and anyone who loves a teen—or is trying to find themselves—the wisdom and warmth of this episode offer an encouraging blueprint for connection, resilience, and hope.

Transcript

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Lemonada.

[Shilpa]

It's 5:30 in the morning. After two snoozes, I am awake and ready to get on the rowing machine.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

That's Shilpa. She runs a world class therapeutic school and rehabilitation program for teens in New York. And clearly she's a morning person.

[Shilpa]

Okay, now I'll spend about 20 minutes on the acupressure mat, which really helps to relieve built up tension in my neck, shoulders and upper back area. And while doing that, I'm going to listen to the Power of Now by eckhart tolle. Chapter three. Moving deeply into the now.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Shilpa's 52, grew up in New Jersey and now lives just across the river in Chelsea with her husband Simon.

[Shilpa]

All right, time to put away the mat and head into the shower. So what's your agenda today? Meeting, meeting, teaching or meetings? Are you teaching? Yes. So I'm probably gonna need the laptop.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

She's a cat mom.

[Shilpa]

We're getting a lovely chicken pate with a nice sprinkling of freeze dried chicken on top.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

And a human mom to her 11 year old son, Zubin.

[Shilpa]

Seven o'. Clock. Time to wake up. Zubin. Good morning. It's time to wake up, bubba. You ready? Five more minutes. Five more minutes. You can have five more minutes. I'm gonna go start your breakfast. I'll meet you in the kitchen.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Okay. Every morning, Shilpa, Simon and Zubin walk together from their downtown apartment to the subway. Then the trio splits apart. Simon takes Zubin to school and Shilpa catches the train uptown to her office in Harlem where she cares for more than 100 of the city's most vulnerable.

[Shilpa]

All right guys, see you later. I'll see you at 2:35. Love you. Just walk into the one train.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Everyone knows a caregiver kind of likes Yoba. They keep everyone fed, wipe away tears, execute plans, all without breaking a sweat. And it might look easy for her. But don't be fooled. She's just had a lot of practice. Caring for yourself while caring for others is an important balancing act when you're doing it at home and at work. There's humanity on one side, the love and passion that draws you to the job in the first place. On the other side, there's systems, the programs, policies and resources that make it all possible. Shilpa's been balancing these scales for decades and she's a pretty big deal in her field. She works for a New York based hospital called Mount Sinai where she leads the psychology division and directs a program called Cares. Today we'll hear how she Helps teenagers work through challenges as they take that rocky road from childhood to adulthood. This is squeezed. I'm your host, Eyvette Nicole Brown. Episode 4 Meet Shilpa.

[Shilpa]

We'Re looking at one wall in my office that has shelves that I made, by the way, handmade those shelves a very long time ago in my office.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Shilpa is standing in her office at Mount Sinai. There's a lot of personality inside, almost like a living room. Stickers, stuffed animals and framed student photos cover the shelves.

[Shilpa]

Some of these puzzles with capturing balls in the little slots. A couple of valentines that I got from my son. Dear Mom, I love you. Love Zubin with a stick.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

The overhead fluorescent lights are off. Shilpa prefers warm lighting from some mismatched lamps she brought from home. There's a round table and two couches, the kind you want to sink into.

[Shilpa]

I hold a lot of meetings in here, staff meetings or group supervisions and classes. And I think it really is conducive to just kind of contemplation. And that's a lot of what I expect to do here.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Next to her desk, bookcases stretched to the ceiling. The books she uses most are near eye level. Transcultural Health Care. Young Adult Mental Health. Dismantling Systemic Racism in the workplace.

[Shilpa]

Once I became director of cares, I started a tradition of at Halloween, we all dress up in costumes, so we take a group photo and then I get the printed on mugs for all the staff that are here. So 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

There's a long line of mugs, each printed with a staff group photo.

[Shilpa]

13, 14, oh, 15. I guess it's been 15 years.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

I was so excited to meet Shilpa the director, who's been doing this for 15 years. But first I wanted to know about Shilpa the teen.

[Shilpa]

I grew up in a very white suburb of New Jersey and I'm not white. And I feel like I was two different Shilpas. One was the Shilpa from Monday through Friday who was at school as one of maybe three brown people in my entire school of about 800 people. There was always that feeling of, I don't think I belong here, but I'm here, so let me figure out what to do with this. But then the other Shilpa, who was in the Indian community, very sociable and lots of friends and family and all of that. It was just just really like two different parts of my brain would get activated at different parts of the week. There was a lot around with friends and family of them struggling with mental health issues and being the eldest, there is just kind of an inherent responsibility that comes with that. Regardless of what your background is, when you naturally fill that kind of gap, it's hard to step out of it. And you know, surprise, surprise, I ended up being a psychologist.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Our team visited Shilpa at CARES or the Comprehensive Adolescent Rehabilitation and Education Service. It's a clinical program and school for teens dealing with mental health, substance, academic, social, emotional and family issues. Kind of like a one stop shop for the most at risk teens in New York City. It's passing period between classes, dozens of students file in and out of classrooms. Shopa's taking us on a little tour. It has the typical chaotic vibe of every high school. A teen digs through their purse for lip liner and fake eyelashes, then uses their phone camera to apply both. Another sits quietly in a corner reading a book. One group crowds outside a classroom.

[Shilpa]

At the math classroom, I think they're just going to wrap up class before they head over to the spelling bee. It might be a little biased.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Spelling bee?

[Shilpa]

Just saying. They gave me the crown to be picking the words.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

You get an idea of what the students are like from their hallway decorations.

[Shilpa]

This is a Today I am grateful for poster cats, puppies, 80s Spanish music that is specific. We've got a Black Lives Matter flag and then we've got our very inclusive pride flag.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Students typically stay for about a year. In some ways, Cares is like any high school. Students come from 9am to 3:45pm every day for standard classes. They can graduate with normal diplomas. But in other ways it's totally different. Think weekly drug tests to track progress and therapy most days. I have heard CARES described as a therapeutic school. What does that mean to you?

[Shilpa]

It's a bit redundant in that school should be therapeutic. You better say it.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

You better say it.

[Shilpa]

Yeah, so. And it's not. I mean we know that it's not and so we do try to do that here. Teachers are teaching in classrooms while clinicians are literally right outside the classroom really trying to destigmatize the idea that I might need help in the moment. And it's okay, you can ask for it, anybody can ask for it and we can just do it immediately.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Students between 14 and 21 get referred to CARES from all over other schools. Therapists, child protective services, the legal system, even their own families. It's open to anyone who can pay out of pocket or through insurance, even through Medicaid. Some CARE students have rough transitions from middle school to high school. Others were bullied or have learning difficulties. There's also abuse, family trauma, and issues with substances.

[Shilpa]

In most cases, unless they've already tried very intensive levels of outpatient care, we will give them a shot because one of our goals is to prevent hospitalization.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Cares is preventative. They support teens now so they're less likely to have a crisis later in life. And they don't just work with students. They see their families, too.

[Shilpa]

There is no way to treat a child or a teen in isolation from their family system. The young people that come to us, the families that come to us seem to have just been eroded down by discrimination or misdiagnosis or racism.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Dealing with things like inequality and systemic racism and poverty can be really, really painful. And Shilpa and her team are there to help.

[Shilpa]

All of these layers keep getting added on. That, I think, has led to this disconnect from who am I and what am I and what's my purpose and what do I do?

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

After the break, we'll listen in on a family therapy session to hear how this works in real time.

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[Yvette Nicole Brown]

There'S only so much healing a young person can do alone, and usually the people closest to them need help too. So students at CARES go to therapy at least once a day. They do individual, group and family therapy. And there's a team of psychologists, nurses, doctors, social workers and training staff who work with them. We listened in on a family session with 17 year old Shai and their mom, Shayla. They've been working with therapist Emily for a year and a half since Shai first came to cares.

[Shilpa]

I would invite Shai to talk more. I think I talk plenty. There is maybe a tendency towards a dynamic for Shayla to talk more.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Shy was referred after being hospitalized for a mental health crisis. Emily helped Shai and their mom work through past trauma, like what Shai went through at their old school.

[Shilpa]

There was like a stabbing and there was gun violence and stuff.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yeah.

[Shilpa]

So there's concern about going back into an environment like that.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yes. Emily Says Shai is bright and funny. And when they have a hard time sharing feelings with Emily or their mom, Sheila, they communicate through sarcasm and facial expressions.

[Shilpa]

In my past, people have crossed boundaries. So when people cross boundaries after I set them, it pisses me off because. And it makes me feel unsafe. Cause of past trauma. How does that feel for you to hear, Shayla? Scare.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Mm.

[Shilpa]

Softness. What do you feel?

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Shy? Numb.

[Shilpa]

Frustrated. Mm. I'm sorry. Oh, no, I'm sorry. What's the sorry part? Bring this shit up. Emily, we are talking about you, sweetie.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

We are not talking about.

[Shilpa]

No, but you're fine. So your shy feeling is like, I would prefer to be isolated. Yes.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

CARE's students have been through a lot. Some are really traumatized. And at times, adults haven't taken their experiences and feelings seriously. They've been let down and labeled as difficult or ungrateful. So some have built up emotional walls or lashed out at people around them. Sadly, many adults go to extremes to try and change a teen's behavior. It happens at home and in our social systems. Just look up troubled teen industry. You'll see what I mean. But at cares, it's different. They're determined to get to the bottom of the trauma that teens face. So it's very rare for students to get kicked out of cares, even when they skip school, fail a drug test, or yell at a teacher. Research shows that punishing traumatized children for things like acting out or withdrawing has a deeply negative effect that lasts a lifetime. At the same time, students aren't just let off the hook for their actions. The goal is to build a safe environment where young people learn to take accountability that's different from punishment.

[Shilpa]

Oftentimes those get confused. Like, the immediate response is, oh, you're punishing me. I'm in trouble.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Right?

[Shilpa]

And we do a lot of work to help them recognize, no, it's not about being punished. Punished is not giving you a chance to respond and take ownership of what you've done. What we're looking for is for you to be able to slow down a bit and recognize what was my role in this thing that happened. And rather than keeping your locus of control external to you, things happen to me. Let's find the thing that you can be in control of, and so let's work on that so that you can.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Now have some agency or agency boundaries, relationships. These are big things for teens to work through, and Shilpa has spent decades building a system to help them. Students who couldn't see their future before CARES end up going to college. Trade school or other jobs. And Shilpa keeps in touch with many of them.

[Chris]

Hey, Shoba, how are you?

[Shilpa]

Hey, how you doing?

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Chris is one of those former students. He graduated from Cares in 2006 and still lives in the city.

[Shilpa]

What are we talking, 15 years ago?

[Chris]

Oh my God.

[Shilpa]

Okay, so start with your experience at CARES this morning.

[Chris]

There was always support around the corner. There was always somebody to talk to.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

If you needed it.

[Chris]

At that age, I was a very rebellious, stubborn, emotionally illiterate kid. Whatever I couldn't figure out, whatever. I didn't know what was happening with me and my personal family issues and my socialization problems back then. I would just get upset and I would act out constantly. Shovel, what are you popping around the corner? I was like, how you doing, Chris? You want to talk about it? No, not really.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Shove.

[Chris]

But yeah, let's talk about it. You were always around. I definitely found some kind of peace here and there, whether I like to admit it back then or not.

[Shilpa]

You did not want to admit it back then, but you were to me, very easy to support. You would just show up all the time, every day. And that was it. That was all I needed to know. You want something more for yourself.

[Chris]

Yeah. Things definitely turned out better than they could have, that's for sure.

[Shilpa]

You worked tremendously hard and I know you would never believe me when I would tell you that, but you did.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

After graduation, Chris went on to the Marines, then to other jobs. Now as an adult, he wants to pay it forward. He's planning to mentor current CARES students.

[Shilpa]

It's making me emotional now. It's a lot. You know, when the kids let you in, they don't really have to do that. I'm always telling my staff, as long as they're walking through the door, that's all they need to do. And then the rest is now on us.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Shilpa manages 30 staff members in the program. She also oversees 175 more in the psychology division. She handles finances and hears from her bosses about the demands of the healthcare system she works in. Whew. No wonder Shilpa needs the power of now and those beautiful self care rituals every morning. Advocating for the students, supporting her staff and satisfying the system to keep the show on the road can be a lot.

[Shilpa]

People talk about do you change the system or do you just accept it? And I think it's better both. And neither. Me being taken over by the humanity and forgetting that we work within a system is oh, so what? Doesn't matter what our demands are. We're Just going to do whatever we want. We will all be out of jobs and then the kids that we're treating will have nowhere to go to be treated. So it's just a very big reality that we're constantly having to strike a balance between these two things. I think the trick for us is to maintain our humanity and not let the humanity go.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

I imagine that this work can be very emotional at times and heavy at times. How has it changed you over the years and how do you look after yourself?

[Shilpa]

I had a day that ended feeling physically and emotionally painful and draining. And I know I have those days when I almost automatically start to feel those thoughts of why are you even doing this work? Why don't you just go and get that farm you want upstate and only deal with animals, not people? You know, those are the typical go tos for me. Then I go home and my son and my husband and they can just take one look at me and say what happened today? And then I tell them and I offload and I come back to my core.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

It's difficult to be that human set of scales. There are days when all you want to do is the work that feels more human and connected and you want to disregard all the administration, business priorities and logistics. And the scales look different every day. But both sides are necessary. Finding the value in each is a major piece of the puzzle. After the break, we'll hear about the challenges Shopo's up against and get some advice on how we can help our teens at home. Even though Shilpa and her team have accomplished a lot, there's still one boogeyman that haunts most Americans.

[Shilpa]

Insurance is a big deal.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Shilpa says a lot of mental health programs prioritize access for very low income people on Medicaid, and that's important. They need the help. Their access should not be taken away.

[Shilpa]

But people that also need the services are middle class with commercial insurance.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Leaders like Shilpa are at the mercy of insurance companies who challenge who can get access to which services. It's always changing and hard to predict.

[Shilpa]

So it's just a very strange setup here of like who's going to be allowed to access the multitude of programs that are designed.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

I could imagine. Don't ask me how I know that there aren't nearly as many women of color in prominent roles. Isn't that shocking? How did I know this? What are some challenges that you faced and how do you cope on those difficult days when it's exhausting and you just wish there were more of us?

[Shilpa]

So for the longest time, I wouldn't recognize the challenges and so I would just kind of go for what I wanted and get it. And if I didn't get it, then I'd try again until I got it. It's not until fairly recently really, with the surge of DEI movements and recognition and this and that, that it started to dawn on me that, huh, maybe this has gotten in my way and I don't know it. I think as I moved higher up in the ranks, it came up more and more from both women and men. And so I would then challenge things and I would put myself in a position of probably getting in trouble or risking things.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Siopa's drive to challenge the status quo actually started in childhood.

[Shilpa]

That came directly from my dad. I remember once we had a family friend came over and made some comment to my parents about, oh, so sad you have two daughters, you know, in Indian culture, oh, that's, you know, you have to give them away and then you'll be left with nothing. That's so sad. And that really struck me because I'd never heard that before. So I went to my parents saying, is that true? And my dad just looked at me so calmly and smiled and he said, oh, that's ridiculous. No, we actually feel blessed that we have two girls and girls can do anything they want, so why would that be a problem? And I was like, oh, okay.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

How do your memories of being a teenager shape how you deal with the young people now?

[Shilpa]

I think at the core we're talking about, you know, finding oneself. And that's what teens are going through across the board, across the spectrum. And caregivers, when they're adults, get caught up in thinking, I know better. You need to just listen to what I say. And I think it comes from a good place, you know, it comes from a place of care and concern and worry. But I think most times they have completely forgotten what it was like to be a teenager.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

To be a teen.

[Shilpa]

I think it exists somewhere in their being and that's why they're going to such a polarized opposite approach because of the turmoil that may still be unresolved for them. And so I think if we can take on that responsibility of saying, do I remember what I went through? If I can connect on that level, then I think there's just magic can happen.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

The questions Shilpa's talking about, where you belong, who you fit in with, what to do with your future, those are the big mysteries of life. I'm in my 50s and still haven't Figured it out. For teenagers, it's a lot more intense. It takes years plus a few wrong turns to start to figure it out. Remembering that journey of finding yourself helps you transcend time to connect with the teens in your life. But you can't avoid all the arguments in door slamming.

[Shilpa]

You actually need to have conflict, especially with teens. Part of what they're developmentally wired to do is to push up against adults. So if we can allow them to do that safely, we have a much better chance of lending them some trust and saying, you will tell me when there is something I need to know. Then we as adults have to let go a little bit.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

I imagine that's the challenge of parenting. You have to teach them to be an adult and to contribute positively to the world. But you don't want to be overbearing. You need to support their process of growing into their own person. So how does Shilpa do it with her own son, Zubin?

[Shilpa]

When and talking with him about just the realities of the world. So things like addiction that hit me both close to home and out there. I have to get myself into like a non preachy place because I don't need to be a textbook for him. I need to be a human being. But also recognizing I'm still his mother. I told him things when he was 4 about addiction because I had to. Now it's more appropriate for an almost 11 year old. I don't need to overload him, but I also don't need to fully shield him.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Many parents of teens will tell you this constant tension feels like riding a roller coaster. But Shilpa's got a different take.

[Shilpa]

I like to think of the roller coaster in another way. It's kind of riding a wave. You know, when you're in the ocean, waves are coming at you. You can either be really stiff and strict and that wave's gonna hit you and it's gonna be so painful, or you can see that it's coming, it's going to overpower you, it's just gonna be bigger than you are. And you can acknowledge that and anticipate it and it will come, but it's also going to going to pass. The more you try to fight it with this rigidity and this I'm right, you're wrong, it just gets harder and harder. But if you can acknowledge that, okay, this is big and it will also ease up, then you can tell yourself, I can ride this wave and I will still be standing here.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

I love that analogy. And if I think about my own life, you know I don't have teens, but I know that caring for my dad comes with a whole lot of waves. Shilpa's right. There's no point in fighting those waves. They're going to hit whether we like it or not, so we might as well just learn to ride them out. After meeting Shilpa, I'm thinking of the caregiving system for teens as a big set of scales with teens on one side and adults on the other. When parents, therapists or teachers, you drop fixed opinions and rigid systems on their side of the scale, teens get launched right off the other. But when caregivers set their own teen memories and mistakes on the scale, they move slowly toward harmony. And when mental health systems and leaders support that balance, that's when real change can happen. I'm Yvette Nicole Brown and this is Squeezed. There's more squeeze with Lemonada. Premium subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like previously unheard clips from all our voices in this series. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts. Squeezed is a Lemonada Media original. I'm your host, Yvette Nicole Brown. Crystal Genesis is our senior producer. Julia Yorkt, Tess Novotny and Hannah Boomershine are our producers. Ivan Kuraev is our engineer. Field production by Tess Novotny, Crystal Genesis and Ivan Kurayev. Our theme music is by Andy, Kristin's daughter, with additional music by APM Music. Jackie Danziger is our VP of Narrative Content. Executive producers are me, Yvette Nicole Brown, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie Whittles. Wax this show was created in partnership with the Robert Wood Channel Johnson Foundation, a leading national philanthropy dedicated to taking bold leaps to transform health in our lifetime and pave the way together to a future where health is no longer a privilege, but a right. Follow Squeezed wherever you get your podcasts or listen. Ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership.