The Long Goodbye

Summary

Podcast Summary: Squeezed with Yvette Nicole Brown

Episode: The Long Goodbye
Date: September 24, 2025
Host: Yvette Nicole Brown
Guest: Stephanie Wittles Wachs
Podcast: Lemonada Media

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Overview

In the Season 2 premiere episode, "The Long Goodbye," host Yvette Nicole Brown reunites with Lemonada co-founder Stephanie Wittles Wachs to explore the deeply emotional and universal experience of end-of-life caregiving. The conversation centers on Stephanie's journey as her father, Ellison, entered hospice and eventually passed away. The episode candidly examines anticipatory grief, the practicalities and misconceptions about hospice, and the relief—and guilt—that follow a loved one’s passing. It’s both a personal narrative and a beacon for other caregivers, focusing on making sense of loss, expressing love, and finding peace in the aftermath.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The First Signs of Loss and Disconnection

• Stephanie shares a harrowing audio clip of her father no longer recognizing her, marking the start of a new chapter in his decline.
  • (00:41) Stephanie: "Do you not recognize me at all?...You don't know my name? ...What is your name? ...Stephanie."
  • (01:08) Yvette Nicole Brown: "This was the first time Steph’s dad, Ellison, didn't recognize her."
• The role of seemingly small, everyday moments—like running the dryer at home—accentuates the surreal and dissonant feeling of beginning to lose a loved one piece by piece.
• Stephanie reflects on realizing her father’s loving gaze was gone, replaced by vacancy:
  • (01:56) Stephanie: "It’s like wild and very dissonant when someone...loses their mind and they look at you like a stranger..."

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2. Caregiving Rollercoaster: Emotional Highs, Lows, and Resilience

• Both Yvette and Stephanie share the tumultuous journey of caregiving: brief moments of reunion (“he knew she was his daughter again”) then slipping away once more.
  • (02:44) Yvette Nicole Brown: "Some good days, some bad days, and this up and down is just part of it."
• Humor as a coping mechanism—anecdotes about Ellison's dark humor and T-shirts (“I’ve been social distancing for years” and “In dog years, I’m dead”):
  • (06:51) Stephanie: "It’s all, like, antisocial T-shirts."
• Stephanie explains the emotional complexity of maintaining daily routines (like sending kids to school) while navigating intense grief:
  • (05:49) Stephanie: "You have to keep going in this way that doesn’t allow you to stop and process...I’m fine every day. Because I’m busy."

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3. Shared But Personal Grief: Comparing Declines

• Yvette and Stephanie compare their fathers’ illnesses—one’s mind slipping (Alzheimer’s, dementia), the other’s body fading (Parkinson’s), each a unique pain:
  • (08:23) Yvette: "The cruelty...is it takes the brilliance and the magic...and the body is still there. But the thing that made them...is just slowly diminishing in front of you."
• The shared experience of watching a loved one fade, but grasping for their presence as the illness progresses:
  • (09:08) Stephanie: "Our journeys though different are the same...how similar people’s experiences are in these moments."

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4. The Transition to Hospice: Myths, Realities, and Decision-Making

• The decision to enter hospice is fraught with fear and misunderstanding, countered by a compassionate palliative nurse who reframes hospice not as an immediate death sentence, but as comfort-focused care.
  • *(14:18) Stephanie: "They tried to get him out of bed, and he just lifelessly went flat on the ground...We thought he had had a stroke."
  • *(15:28) Stephanie: "She explained what I did not know about hospice...the average person is on hospice for six months...as long as they need us, we will come."
• Yvette’s endorsement of hospice as a “gift,” emphasizing the relief from endless, taxing hospital cycles:
  • *(16:55) Yvette: "If there is one thing I want this episode to do...for people to understand the gift of hospice and what it truly is..."

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5. The Impossible Goodbye: Hope and Denial

• The unpredictability of end-of-life trajectories—Stephanie notes that, even in Ellison's final hours, she kept hoping for a rebound due to his repeated recoveries in the past (“he had 25 lives”).
  • *(19:12) Stephanie: "I think it was because I had seen him turn it around so many times...I had seen him turn it around so many times."
• Navigating practicalities: listening to hospice nurses’ advice, wrestling with whether to cancel work for vigil, being told “He will be here when you get back”:
  • *(20:12) Stephanie: "One of the hospice nurses...she was like, he is not going anywhere. Come feel his feet. They are warm..."

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6. The Final Hours: Bearing Witness in Intimacy and Waiting

• The emotional and physical toll of the very end: Steph and her mom stayed with Ellison for 36 hours, giving medicine, playing favorite music, waiting for the last breath.
  • *(28:06) Stephanie: "I played all of his favorite country songs...we were in that room...for 36 hours."
  • *(28:33) Stephanie: "I was crushing up the pills...putting them in the morphine...putting them in his mouth."
• The protracted waiting, comparing death to labor:
  • *(29:20) Stephanie: "You’re waiting for the end...that’s why it felt like labor to me..."
  • *(30:46) Yvette: "It felt like labor. Watching labor in reverse."
• The specifics and difficulty of observing death: breath changes, gasping, and finally, silence.
  • *(31:49) Stephanie: "And then he was gone. And the silence...I got to be with him when he took his last breath."

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7. Aftermath: Peace, Guilt, and Relief

• Accepting the finality as both “supposed to happen” and still very hard:
  • *(32:47) Stephanie: "But it’s what’s supposed to happen, right? ...His body was ready. His body was done."
• Comparing deaths in her family—her brother’s opioid overdose felt more “robbed and wrong”; her father’s peaceful passing brought more acceptance.
• Questioning afterlife—contrasting her mother's firm belief in reunion with her and her father's skeptical, science-based view:
  • *(33:43) Stephanie: "My mom always tells me the only way I’m able to get through anything is that I know I’m gonna see Harris again...I struggle with knowing what’s next. I’m a cynic."
• Grieving caregivers’ relief—when the metaphorical quicksand recedes, there may be relief. Yvette stresses it's okay to feel this:
  • *(36:09) Yvette: "I think this is the crazy thing about being a caregiver. There’s guilt in every aspect...once they’re gone, you feel, like, the gratitude or the joy or the relief, if we’re honest, there’s a bit of relief..."
• Steph’s evolution: From quicksand to flying.
  • *(37:36) Stephanie: "The first thing I thought of was like, flying...I feel this like—I can go where I need to go."

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8. Holding Onto Life: Memory, Humor, and Family

• Continuing to find joy and everyday life with her kids, using humor (kindergarten jokes at the bedside) as a bridge during tough moments.
  • *(38:38) Stephanie’s child: "Why did the cat not want to play volleyball? Because it had a hairball."
  • *(38:52) Yvette: "Tough crowd."

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Seeing vacancy in a parent's eyes is so weird."
  – Stephanie Wittles Wachs (01:56)
• "The only way I can explain that vacant stare is this: My dad is there, but he's no longer there."
  – Yvette Nicole Brown (10:48)
• "It takes the brilliance and the magic and the sparkle and the shine of our heroes."
  – Yvette Nicole Brown (08:23)
• "The spirit gets a little antsy, like, well, I did this."
  – Yvette Nicole Brown (23:33)
• "There's a relief to not being in quicksand anymore…You can’t breathe."
  – Stephanie Wittles Wachs (36:07)
• "I feel this like—I can go where I need to go."
  – Stephanie Wittles Wachs (37:36)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:41-02:44: Stephanie’s father first doesn’t recognize her—audio, followed by her emotional reaction
• 05:49-06:29: Ongoing life tasks and the challenge of processing grief while staying busy
• 14:18-16:55: Deciding on hospice, explanation of what hospice is and isn’t
• 19:05-20:12: Hoping for a turnaround even at the end—Steph’s repeated denials
• 28:06-31:42: The final vigil, administering morphine, and Ellison’s last breath
• 33:14-35:10: Views on afterlife—Ellison’s skepticism, mother’s hope, Stephanie’s struggle
• 35:59-37:36: Steph on shifting from “quicksand” to “flying”—relief post-caregiving
• 38:38-38:52: Humor from children at Ellison’s bedside

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Tone and Style

The conversation is candid, warm, and threaded with bittersweet humor. Yvette and Stephanie use frank language to demystify death, caregiving, and grief, making space for vulnerability and laughter. The tone reflects compassionate honesty—allowing listeners to feel less alone and more validated in the complexities of loss.

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Takeaways

• Caregiving at the end of life is as real and human as any other stage, filled with ordinary moments and profound realizations.
• Hospice is a comfort-focused, supportive resource—neither shameful nor automatically a harbinger of death.
• Relief, guilt, and shifting identity after a loved one’s death are normal, and it’s important for caregivers to grant themselves permission to feel them.
• Storytelling, humor, and staying present—even in final moments—can bring unexpected comfort.

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For anyone facing or reflecting on a caregiving journey, this episode gives voice to a wide range of emotions, experiences, and gently hard truths—serving as both validation and tribute to those living “the long goodbye.”

Transcript

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Lemonade. Want to listen to your favorite Lemonada shows without the ads? Subscribe to Lemonada Premium on Apple Podcasts for just 5. 99. You'll get ad free episodes and exclusive bonus content from shows like this one, Squeezed as well as Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis Dreyfus, Fail Better with David Duchovny, and so many more. It's a great way to support the work we do and treat yourself to a smoother, uninterrupted listening experience. Just head to any Lemonada show feed on Apple podcasts and hit subscribe. Make life suck less with fewer ads with Lemonada Premium.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Dad? Yeah? Do you. Do you. Do you. Do you not recognize me at all? Who's that? Me. Can you look at me? Do you not recognize me at all?

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

No.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

No. You don't know my name? No. What is your name? Stephanie.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

This was the first time Steph's dad, Ellison, didn't recognize her.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

I'm your daughter. You're my daddy? Yep. And I love you very much.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

By this point, Ellison had been in hospice for almost two months. He had Parkinson's, so while his body and physical movement had been declining for some time, Steph said he always had his mind. Forgetting who she was had not been part of the deal until that moment.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

End of life is such a trip.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Steph talked about it on Instagram. The following day, she was home. So you can hear the dryer running in the background.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Yesterday, my dad literally looked at me and did not know who I was. Had no idea. It's like wild and very dissonant when someone usually looks at you a certain way, which is just the way that they look at you. And then when they lose their mind and they look at you like a stranger, you realize that the way they used to look at you was with love. Like, that's how your parents look at you. That's how you look at your children. With love. Seeing vacancy in a parent's eyes is so weird.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

The next day, though, Ellison remembered again. He looked right at Steph and said her name. He knew she was his daughter.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

You forgot me. Well, you're very, very hard to forget.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

I know, but you did. I didn't.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

I.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

You did.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

I'm glad you remember me now. It was so sad.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

In this video, Steph is sitting on Ellison's bed, which is tilted up. They're face to face. She rubs his chest and pats it gently, then strokes his cheek.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

I love you. I love you. I love you, too.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

This relief after such profound sadness is a rollercoaster of emotions. Some good days, some bad days, and this up and down is just part of it. This is what happens at the end. From Lemonada Media, this is squeezed. I'm your host, Yvette Nicole Brown. Welcome to season two where I get to speak with caregivers across the country like me and you, or future you, about the powerful and also very normal moments we experience every day while caring for our loved ones. As some of you might remember, we opened the first season of Squeeze with a conversation between Steph and I talking about caregiving for our dads.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Parkinson's is a mother.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Same with dementia, baby. Same with dementia.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

It is. I hate it.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Steph co founded Lemonada Media and hosted the popular show Last Day about all the sad stuff that brings us together. She's currently working on her second book, that's all about the opioid crisis. When we last chatted, Steph's dad was in an assisted living facility so close to her home she could wave at it. And. And my dad, Omar, who has Alzheimer's, was living at home with me. Now, more than a year later, my dad is in hospice at a full time care facility, and Steph's dad Ellison, is gone. Sadly, that's how caregiving goes. So for this first episode of season two, we're coming back together, me and Steph, to talk about this very crucial part of caregiving. End of life. What it was like as she and her family watch Ellison slowly slip away. And how no amount of planning can prepare you for the moment your loved one passes.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Hi.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Hi, Steph.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Hi, sweetie pie.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

How are you? Oh, girl. How are you? Is the question. Girl.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Oh, my God, you're gorgeous.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Listen, I don't look like what I've been through.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

It's not.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Well, let's just say that. Let's say that.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

What's the line from so Magnolias? Honey, I don't know how you're feeling on the inside, but your hair's holding up just fine.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Absolutely. Seeing Steph again felt like seeing an old friend. After a long time, you feel giddy and the conversation just flows. But a few moments later, we got right into it.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

My kids started school this morning, Yvette. I was packing the lunches and making the eggs and making sure the hair was okay and walking them to school. And you have to keep going in this way that doesn't allow you to stop and process, you know, the tremendous loss. And I think it's gonna probably be tough to talk to you because I haven't had a minute to sit and Think and talk and. Yeah, you know. So how am I doing today? I'm fine. Because I'm fine every day. Because I'm busy.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Cause you have to be, right?

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

And I got kids to raise, and I got a business to run.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Ellison died June 10. Steph and I talked remotely less than two months later, in early August. Behind her was a box of Ellison's old T shirts.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

I'm gonna make a quilt.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yes. Yes, ma'.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Am. Of yes ma'.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Am.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

All of his. It's all, like, antisocial T shirts.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

I love it. Yes. Put it. My eyes.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

I've been social distancing for years.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yes.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

In dog years, I'm dead. You know, things like that.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

That was Ellison's type of humor. He was not one to shy away from the darkness.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

My dad would joke about wanting to be taken out. For years, he would be like this, with his arms across his chest. And my mom would go, what are you doing? I'm practicing. Like, he was in a casket. I mean, he was so dark, and he was so funny.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Steph and her dad were tight. She went to him for advice, and they just talked and talked about everything for many years. Steph sometimes recorded him.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

I have so much tape of him over the years and everyone.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

And.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

He was my favorite person ever to interview because he's so. His depth is, like, boundless. He says so little, but he says so much. And he's so wise. And I think that's a lot of what was most difficult for me towards the end. That he just says less and less.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yeah.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

And he gets more and more disoriented. And my dad had a physical decline that was really unforgiving and relentless. Parkinson's is. Yeah, I think I said last time. Is a mother.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

It's a mother.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

And I stand by it. But he always had his mind. So when his mind started going, that was when I think it got really painful.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

There's so much about our journeys that mirror my dad because he has dementia. So his body was fine. I mean, the regular decline of, you know, late 70s, 80 year old person. His body was fine, but his brain was going. And you had the flip where the brain was there. So it's like the cruelty of it for me, because dementia is also a mother. The cruelty of it is it takes the brilliance and the magic and the sparkle and the shine of our heroes. And the body is still there. But the thing that made them. The thing.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Oh, my God.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Is just slowly diminishing in front of you. And it's just. Yeah.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

And our journeys Though different are the same, Are the same. That's what always blows my mind about all this, is how similar people's experiences are in these moments. And I mean, like when you were talking about your dad, I was recalling this vacant stare, the vacant scare.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

It's. And you know, you know they're not there.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

It's chilling.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

It is.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

And no one told me about that. I didn't. And nobody was like, okay, here's what's going to happen. Their eyes are going to be empty and they're going to be looking at nothing. They're going to be looking at you and not seeing you at all. And they're not going to remember your kids names and they're not gonna remember where they are. And they, I mean, I just, it's, it's, it's merciless. It's inhumane.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

It's inhumane.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

And I just, I just wasn't, I wasn't prepared.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yvette, I wish I had prepared you more because I foolishly believed that because he had Parkinson's and not dementia that you would miss that part of it. Dementia, from the time they get the diagnosis stuff every day is that you have nothing else you can do but prepare for it to go in that way. Because every day bits of their mind and their personality are slipping away. I didn't tell you because I didn't want it for you. You know what I mean? It's hard enough to watch a body decline. To watch a brilliant mind decline in front of you for years is devastating.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

I mean, I only had to deal with that part for three months and let me tell you, I can't imagine four years. I cannot. It is brutal.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yeah, it is brutal. My dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer's more than a decade ago. He lived with me and I was his full time caregiver for about 11 and a half years as he slowly lost everything that made him him. He's pretty much non verbal now. He'll say words, but they don't really make any sense. He very rarely recognizes me anymore. So I know deeply the pain Steph felt when she was met with a vacant stare. The only way I can explain that vacant stare is this. My dad is there, but he's no longer there. We're gonna take a quick break. When we come back, Steph talks about one of the hardest decisions a caregiver can make.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

He just lifelessly went flat on the ground. I mean, the cart came in, my mom was there. It was so scary.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

That's after the break. Hello, I'm James Corden. And on my new show, this Life of Mine, I sit down each week with some of the most fun, fascinating people on planet Earth. From Dr. Dre to Julianne Moore to David Beckham to Cynthia Erivo to Martin Scorsese to Jeremy Renner to Denzel Washington to Kim Kardashian, we talk about the people, places, possessions, music, and memories that made them who they are. These are intimate conversations full of stories that you've never heard before. This Life of Mine premieres October 21st. Wherever you get your podcasts. My dad's been in hospice care for about a year. Every time I go to see him, it feels like the last time I will see him. And I know that one of those visits will actually be the last time. Still, it feels impossible to prepare yourself. I wanted to know if Steph had any advice. Did you have moments where you're like, okay, this is happening, so let. How do I do this? And how did that journey start for you? How did you mentally get yourself and your family ready for this?

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

It's one of those things that the decline was so, so slow and then the end happened all at once.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yeah.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

So I foolishly, like most, I would say, thought hospice means you're done. Yeah, you're out.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

A lot of people think that hospice is unto death, and there are many times that it feels that way because a lot of people go to hospice right before they do pass away.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

That's right.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

But hospice is just another form of care where it's more comfort care than prevention.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

And intervention.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

And intervention. Right. It's where you can choose to place yourself or your loved one when the prognosis is such that they will not beat this. This is what it's going to be. So you try to give them a soft and comfortable place to transition. Steph talked about how she and her family decided Ellison should go into hospice, a decision that was not intuitive. You see, for a while, Ellison had been in and out of the hospital frequently enough that his family had gotten used to the routine of checking him in and checking him out. The most recent and last time he was in the hospital was for an infection. The plan was for him to, as always, leave the hospital. But as he was going through the steps of being released, he buckled.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

They tried to get him out of the bed, and he just lifelessly went flat on the ground. The code blue. I mean, the cart came in. My mom was there. It was so scary. She was like, I've never seen anything like that in real life. It felt like a movie. I Was horrified. And they got him back in the bed. They were like, okay, you're obviously not leaving the hospital right now. We thought he had had a stroke or something had happened, because he just was really absent and confused and not part of this planet. You know, in a different. What we would say like, you're not here. You're floating out in outer space. And then the palliative nurse came in and said, you know, you have an option here. You have the option of doing hospice. And we were like, what does that even mean? We were like, he's not dying. He goes in and out of the hospital a lot. He has Parkinson's. So, you know, we were, you know. And she said, no, no, I know. But if you do not want to keep doing this, they will come to you. We can come to you.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

We will come to you.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

And she explained what I did not know about hospice. I will remember this. We were in the hospital room. My dad was in there. We said, come talk to us. With him here, he was awake, which was important to us. And I said, well, what does it mean? Explain to me what happens when you go into hospice. And she said, well, you're not going to bring him to the hospital. We're not going to be giving him all of his blood pressure meds, all of his diabetes meds. He was on so many meds, all of his Parkinson's meds. I mean, so many meds that gave him side effects that made things worse. It was like the meds were also a problem. They're like, we're gonna get all that out of there, and we are gonna go to him. We're gonna get him a new hospital bed. We're gonna get him oxygen if he needs it. We're gonna get him every single thing that he needs. We're gonna come to him multiple times a week. I said, how long? She said, well, the average person is on Hospice for six months. It could be three months. It could be 12 months. It could be three years, could be. She said, as long as they need us, we will come. And it is just a different kind of intervention where we are allowing the body to do what it needs to do and knows to do that part.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

If there is one thing I want this episode to do, besides hopefully be a safe space for you to cry it out if you need to, and you're grieving and you're mourning. For people to understand the gift of hospice and what it truly is, if that's what they walk away with, that is amazing. Hospice has been the gift for my dad. Because just you describing having to take him from the boarding care to the hospital over and over, that would be. He can't handle it. His little body can't handle it.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

He literally couldn't handle it. I mean, just getting him into the car for us took Mike, my mom. My mom was having to arrange for the public transit to come pick him up. But he couldn't even get in a wheelchair anymore. He couldn't move from the bed to a wheelchair. By the end, I mean, he was wearing a diaper. He had a catheter. It was complete. He did not have access to his body anymore. Maybe you're not dying, huh? Maybe you're not dying. Maybe I'm not. Yeah, maybe you're not. Maybe I'm not. Maybe you're not. Maybe I'm not. What am I doing? Do you feel, like, different than you have felt? No. You feel the same. Well, then why do you think you're dying now? Because everybody's told me I am. But you don't feel that way? I don't think so. I don't think so. How do I know?

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

I never died before.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

You could rebound? Unlikely. Up until. Truly, I want to say, eight hours before he died, I was telling my mom and the hospice nurse that he was going to. To be fine. Like, Mike and my mom were like, what? I mean, I'm usually not that person who's, like, in denial about things. Like, I'm facing shit head on, but I. I just.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Why do you think that was? Why do you think? Could you not face it? Or you. Or did you really believe it?

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

I think it was because I had seen him turn it around so many times. We would joke that he had 25 lives. Like, I was joking with my mom at the very end, like. Cause that's our language and currency. But the hospice nurse was saying, his pulse ox does not match his heartbeat. He's still going. And I was like. In the middle of the night, we were with the hospice nurse and doing the meds and everything. I was like, man, his pulse is like. At the club, I was like. I mean, he just. Like, he just. I just. I had seen him turn it around so many times.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

I get it. You hope that your loved one might be turning a corner, that they might be the exception to what you've been told, because you need to believe it to keep going. But in her heart, Steph knew the goodbye was looming and could happen any day. Which is why when she was supposed to go on a work trip, she was torn.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

He Would ask me every day, when are you going? When are you going? And he would get confused about it. And one of the hospice nurses. Oh, my God, these people are. I just. They're incredible. They're angels. Her name was Remy. She was like, he is not going anywhere. Come feel his feet. They are warm. His oxygen level is good. This is great. This is great. All the vitals. I have done this for 35 years. He will be here when you get back. You go and do what you need to do. Godspeed, right?

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yeah.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

She gave me a good talking to. And when a wise old woman tells it to me straight, who am I to argue?

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

And Steph knew that is what her dad wanted to.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

If I ever said to him, I'm canceling a work trip because of you, I mean, he would have murdered me himself. You know, same. So, anyway, I go on a trip. I come back, and I walked into the room, and I will never forget it. And I popped in front of his bed, and he was watching Law and Order. And I said. I said, hi, right? I just smiled and lit up.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Hi, Daddy.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

And he. Oh, my God, Hit Yvette. His face like a Christmas tree. Lit up ear to ear, smiled. I'm so happy to see you like that.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yeah.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Yeah. I mean, I started crying.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yeah.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

That was the end of April, and I swear to you, that was it. The clock started ticking. It was like he was waiting for me to get back. And he slowly, from that point on, the mind, started doing those where he stopped knowing who we were. And so I was prepared because I saw him declining so much. And then towards the end, you get to this place where he wasn't living a life anymore.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

That part. That part.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

He was stuck in a bed. He couldn't eat, and he loved to eat. He couldn't eat anymore. He couldn't drink anymore. He loved to drink. He couldn't do anything but lay in that bed. In fact, it got so bad at the end where he would just watch the screensaver on the tv, he wouldn't even. It was like the slideshow of, like, landscapes.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yeah.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

And I would look at him looking at it, just staring into nothing. And I was like, this has to end. I mean, you get to this point, and that is where you start to go, am I terrible?

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yeah, but I understand it. You're not terrible. I think when they get to that space, and that's kind of where my dad is right now, you're realizing that the spirit is already gone. Gone. It's already deciding to go to the next plane the next place that it belongs, you know, we're here for an appointed. We get to fall in love if we're lucky and make babies and watch those babies make babies. And then the time is up. And I think the spirit gets a little antsy, like, well, I did this.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

That's right.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

You know, I've done this. My mother said to me long before she was in hospice, and she only lasted in Hospice for 18 hours, but she said to me long before she was sick, if I see an exit ramp, I'm taking it. And not from the standpoint I'm taking myself out. But she literally was like, I've been in love. I done had these kids. I've retired from a career. I played all the bingo I'm ever gonna play. She was like, I have done it.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

I've done it.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Like, I see. I know what this is. Let's go. Chop, chop. You know?

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Yeah.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

So I don't think it's horrible to see them in that state and know who they were and know that where they are now is not what they would choose for themselves. While Ellison was in hospice for three months, Steph got to say goodbye a thousand times in so many ways, always with an I love you.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

You gonna take a nap? All right. I'm gonna go take a walk, and I'll be back later, okay? Okay. I'm happy to see you. It's nice to see you, too. You're my favorite. You're my favorite, too. You're my favorite. What do you do? What do you. What am I doing? Doing? What are you doing? You're sleeping again. That's not good. That's all you do, man. You just sleep and sleep and sleep and sleep. Never seen someone sleep so much. Why are you sleeping so much?

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

I don't know.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Sleeping sickness. Sleep sickness. You have a sleep disorder. All right, I'll make you some chili. Okay, dad.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Okay.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Love you. I love you, too. Be good. Don't throw a party while I'm gone.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

At the very end, Steph and her mom were with Alison by his side for 36 hours straight. No breaks. Having Mo by your side. Your mom by your side. What was that like for her in those last moments? I can't even imagine. Take your time.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Yeah. I mean.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

And if you need a moment, you can take that, too. You know that.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

We have had such a small family since losing Harris.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yeah. And.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

It'S just us now, me and my mom and obviously Mike.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

And I know, but I know what you mean. I know what you mean.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

I know what you mean the OG Widow's family?

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

That core family? Yeah.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

And, you know, it's the bond I have with my mother is. It's just. I'm very, very grateful for her, and we're very close, which drives me crazy. But I felt like it was really such a benevolent thing to be able to be there with her at the end and for the three of us to be together.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yeah.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

And, you know, she was. She was curled up on the bed with him and just rubbing his head. And he loved her when she'd always scratch my head, scratch my head, and, you know, she was talking to him. I mean, he wasn't responding or anything.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

But.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

I played all of his favorite country songs and classic country, obviously.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Absolutely.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Don't get it twisted. And we just. I mean, we were. We were in that room, like I said, for 36 hours.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yeah.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

There was a recliner that mom slept in, and there was this little tiny love seat that I slept in. I'm five feet tall. So it was fine.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

It was fine.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

It was fine. But she wouldn't give him the meds, so I had to give him the meds. So I was crushing up the pills and putting them in the morphine and putting them in his mouth. And, you know, I mean, it's all like, what in the is happening? Like, I'm giving morphine to dad, and, I mean, dad is dying. And, you know, the hospice nurse came in, and she took all his vitals and said, I think he's got a couple of hours left.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Wow.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

And I was like, what? You know, are you sure? You know?

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yeah.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

She said, yeah, I think you need to, you know, just prepare yourselves. And I started, like, crying a lot because I think that that was, like, the first moment I allowed myself to. To understand that. I mean, I. I just sort of accepted it. And, you know, then my mom and I were kind of waiting. And you're waiting there, and you're waiting for the end, and, you know, it's this. That's why it feels like it felt like labor to me, because it's like you're waiting for the thing to happen. But there's so much waiting.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

I can say for me, because I was doing it via FaceTime in Ireland. My brother, bless his heart, held the phone up for 18 hours for me to see my mother. And it got to the point where I. I started counting breaths because I could tell when she had reached another level of her body shutting down, because her breathing would change, and I would tell him, I'm like, her breathing just changed. Again, this is. You know, it was literally. I never thought of it as, like, labor, maybe because I've never birthed a child, but you're right. It felt like labor. Watching labor in reverse. Like watching the breathing change.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

And the breathing, the breathing, the breathing, the breathing. No one prepared me for that. The time in between breaths, the gasping for air. I mean, all of the sounds of.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Death and the waiting continued. The two hours that the hospice nurse said stretched and became more and more hours.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Okay, well, now we're at 12, y', all, and he's here still. And then it took 13 and 14 and 15 and 16. And then you're, like, out of your mind because you're waiting for this thing to happen. And the. The last breath that he took, he gasped. And I said, mom, we were just, you know, over here, like, playing whatever Tetris, you know, on the phones, just trying to distract ourselves. I said, mom, did you hear that? His breath. His breath just changed. And she said, what are you talking about? I said, come here. I. You know, went over there, and he. He was still, and I. And then they take one more breath, like a last gasp.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

And that's it.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

And that was it. And then he was gone. And the silence.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yeah. After that. Yeah.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Oh, my God. It was just silent. I got to be with my father.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Mm.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Who was my personal fountain of wisdom.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yeah.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

My safest place. I got to be with him. When he took his last breath.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yeah.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Like What? He was 82. He lived a great.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yeah.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

You know, I felt like once he passed, it's not like you think this is what should happen, because, like you said, I don't want him to not be here with me forever.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Forever.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

But it's what's supposed to happen, right? I mean, he died naturally. His body was ready. His body was done. And I felt like there was this real peace around it that I didn't feel with my brother.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Steph's brother died of an opioid overdose in 2015. Before her dad passed, Steph asked him what happens after death and if he thought he would see Harris, Steph's brother, in the afterlife.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

What do you think is coming? Well, soon. The end is coming. Well, what happens at the end? Well, no, I don't think anybody really knows. You think you'll see Harris? Do you believe in that? That's a good question. No, I don't think I will. You don't think there's anything? No. You don't think there's afterlife? No. Really? You don't think there's any Afterlife.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Ellison's belief about what happens after you die was different from what Steph's mom believes.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

It's interesting because my mom always tells me the only way I'm able to get through anything is that I know I'm gonna see Harris again. She's certain of it. It's what allows her to wake up every day and put her feet on the floor.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yeah.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

And I have to be honest, I. I struggle with knowing what's next. I'm a cynic. I'm a skeptic. My dad is, too. He. I mean, we're cut from the same cloth because he was such a man of science and logic and he wrote medical textbooks and facts are facts.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yeah.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

I think it was just hard for him to wrap his head around that. And I. I mean, the fairy tale that he would reunite with him is lovely. I love that story. They're my two favorite guys.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Yeah. Honey.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

So that would be awesome if they were together.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

That image of Ellison and Harris together, it's touching. Sometimes we need to tell ourselves a story or imagine something that might be impossible. To keep the grief at bay. For a long time, Steph carried the weight of caregiving for her dad. Now that weight is gone. An ending. I just remember, in season one, you described yourself as being in quicksand. Remember that? Do you remember that? What's the metaphor now? Do you have one? What is the comparison?

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Oh, God.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

And is it still quicksand, or have you found a way to climb out of it?

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

I feel so wild to say this, but no, I'm not. I'm not. I don't feel like I'm in quicksand anymore.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

That's good.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

And there's a relief to not being quicksand anymore.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

There is.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

It's not comfortable. You can't breathe.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

And it's okay to say that. You know what I mean? I think this is the crazy thing about being a caregiver. There's guilt in every aspect when they're here. Yeah. And then there's guilt in just about every aspect once they're gone. Because you get to the point where you feel, like, the gratitude or the joy that you feel or the relief, if we're honest, there's a bit of relief. Because being a caregiver in all the ways as a parent, as a child, caring for a parent, whatever it is, it's hard.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

So hard.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

It takes a lot out of you. And especially for people like you who have been squeezed in between caring for a parent and also raising babies. It is all encompassing and A business. You got a business, too. And you. And you're still a wife and you got the dog. There's a lot to it. And so two dogs. Two dogs. So you feel bad when you have a bit of relief in one area of that.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Yeah.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

I hope that listening to me and Steph talking will help those of you at home release that guilt, you know, because again, going back to just speaking of my father and my mother, if they were in their right minds or when they were in their right minds, they would say to me, baby girl, fly.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

I know.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Like, get out and experience everything.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

I know. And I. You know what? Honestly, Yvette, what's so wild is when you said, is there an image now? Like, the first thing I thought of was like, flying. I was like, I feel. I don't know. Quicksand is like you're getting sucked into the earth. Right. And I feel this like. Like, I can. I can go where I need to go. I can. You know, my best friend who just lost her dad, it was the same. We talked about it. Like, there's this relief of like, they are at peace now. Yeah, they're okay and they're okay and you're okay, and we're all going to move forward and we got to love them. And let's take the kids to school.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

For Steph, there's comfort and a sense of peace in the day to day life with her kids and her husband. They joined her on many visits to see grandpa. Trips that were bittersweet, but that she holds in her heart still. The kids would make jokes and Ellison would look at them unamused but delighted at the same time.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

Okay, I'll do something. Okay. Why did the cat not want to play volleyball? Why did the cat not want to play volleyball? Because it had a hairball. No.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

All right. Tough crown.

[Stephanie Wittleswax]

My family got a kindergarten. This is a true story. This happened today to me. I was doing this thing at my school.

[Yvette Nicole Brown]

Squeezed is a Lemonada Media original. I'm your host, Yvette Nicole Brown, Lisa Fu and Hannah Boomershine are our producers. Muna Danish is our senior producer. Bobby Woody is our engineer. Our theme music is by Andy, Kristen's daughter, with additional music by APM Music. Jackie Danziger is our VP of narrative Content. Executive producers are me, Yvette Nicole Brown, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Stephanie wittleswax. This show was created in partnership with the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, a leading national philanthropy dedicated to taking bold leaps to transform health in our lifetime and pave the way together to a future where health is no longer a privilege, but a right. Follow squeeze wherever you get your podcast or listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership.