"Franki Takes A Bow"

Summary

Stage Combat The Podcast - Episode Summary: "Franki Takes A Bow"

Release Date: January 28, 2025

Introduction

In the poignant episode titled "Franki Takes A Bow," hosted by Sean Hayden of Haywood Productions, LLC, listeners are introduced to Franke Mastrone, a young actor whose journey through trauma, resilience, and healing serves as a powerful testament to speaking up against mistreatment in the theater industry. This episode delves deep into Franke's personal experiences within her BFA Theater Studies program, the systemic issues she faced, and the steps she took towards recovery and empowerment.

Frankie’s Journey: From Aspiration to Trauma

The episode begins with Sean Hayden introducing Franke Mastrone, a 20-year-old actor from Stamford, Connecticut, celebrating her successful performance in a student production at Purchase College. However, this celebration masks a harrowing backstory of sexual assault and systemic neglect.

“I feel like I'm home. I have so few words to describe it, but I really, truly feel like I'm home.” [00:40]

Franke recounts her initial excitement about enrolling in a BFA Theater Studies program in the Midwest, a decision influenced by her desire to pursue acting post-high school. However, the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic prevented her from visiting the school beforehand, leading to unforeseen challenges.

“Going off to school is... already a very traumatic experience, and you are very vulnerable. And then to go into a program which is all about your vulnerability.” [04:25]

Shortly after her arrival, Franke's vulnerability was exploited when she was sexually assaulted by a much older graduate student. The trauma was compounded by the lack of immediate support, as mental health resources were either unavailable or unresponsive.

“The resources for mental health on most college campuses are not where they need to be.” [05:27]

Systemic Failures: Lack of Institutional Support

Franke details the inadequate response from her university following both the assault and subsequent bullying incidents within her cohort. When she attempted to seek help, the administration dismissed the severity of her situation, reflecting a broader systemic issue within theater programs.

“They said, well, this is serious. This is serious threats, and it was just not ever taken seriously.” [21:24]

The environment was further toxicized by misogynistic behavior from fellow students, leading to public shaming and isolation. The lack of effective institutional support left Franke feeling abandoned and exacerbated her mental health struggles.

“No, it was serious. It was serious threats, and it was just not ever taken seriously.” [21:24]

Resilience Through Community and Therapy

Despite the overwhelming adversity, Franke's story is one of resilience. After reaching a breaking point, she sought help by admitting herself to a mental health hospital, where she began the challenging path to healing. Her journey highlights the importance of finding the right support systems and advocates who can facilitate recovery.

“I started cold calling therapists. Literally probably called 20 to 30 therapists. But I finally found a therapist, and she... helped me.” [26:40]

Franke's eventual move to Purchase College marked a turning point. The supportive environment and her proactive approach to therapy allowed her to reclaim her passion for acting without the shadows of her past impeding her growth.

“I'm in a place where it's like a working relationship with the school. I'm just trying to get the education...” [38:38]

Expert Insights: Professor Jessica Webb on Trauma-Informed Teaching

Sean Hayden enriches the narrative by incorporating insights from Professor Jessica Webb of Boston Conservatory. Professor Webb emphasizes the critical need for trauma-informed approaches in theater education.

“You are your own instrument... We have to assume that everyone has trauma because you cannot be a human being on the planet without experiencing.” [30:27]

She advocates for centering students' well-being, unlearning harmful teaching methodologies, and fostering environments where students feel safe to express and process their trauma. Professor Webb’s perspective underscores the systemic changes necessary to prevent future incidents like Franke’s.

“If we are not doing that, we are harming the way that we are teaching is wrong.” [31:38]

Frankie’s Triumph: Returning to the Stage

The climax of Franke's story culminates in her return to the stage at Purchase College. Her performance symbolizes not just a personal victory but also a broader statement about overcoming institutional neglect and personal trauma.

“I really, really am [happy].” [42:22]

In her final performance of the episode, Franke reflects on her journey, acknowledging the scars yet choosing to live her life forward, free from the constraints of her past trauma.

“My past is no longer something that I think about on a daily basis... I have so much love and so... just getting to live my life every day.” [44:26]

Conclusion

"Franki Takes A Bow" serves as a compelling narrative that sheds light on the often unspoken issues within theater programs regarding student welfare and mental health. Through Franke Mastrone's courageous story and Professor Jessica Webb's expert commentary, the episode advocates for systemic change and the importance of fostering supportive environments for all artists. It underscores the necessity of speaking up, seeking help, and the transformative power of resilience.

Notable Quotes

• “It's almost like being behind a plexiglass room and you're banging on the plexiglass and yelling that this is an issue and this is something going on.” – Frankie Mastrone [02:29]

• “You are your own instrument. We don't have the luxury of having a separate nervous system...” – Professor Jessica Webb [28:50]

• “If we are not doing that, we are harming the way that we are teaching is wrong.” – Professor Jessica Webb [31:38]

• “It's so easy to quit, but you can't because it's possible. I'm proof. You, Sean, are proof we won. It's our story.” – Frankie Mastrone [42:57]

Resources Mentioned

• National Sexual Assault Hotline: [phone]-HOPE
• Suicide & Crisis Lifeline: 988

Listeners are encouraged to reach out to these resources if they or someone they know is struggling with similar issues.

---

This summary aims to encapsulate the essence of "Franki Takes A Bow," highlighting the significant moments and insights shared throughout the episode. It seeks to honor Franke's story by presenting it with the depth and sensitivity it deserves, ensuring that those who haven't listened can grasp the gravity and hope interwoven in her journey.

Transcript

[Sean Hayden]

Hi, everyone. Sean here with a content warning. Franke Takes a Bow contains content dealing with sexual assault and suicide. So please proceed with caution if those topics are potentially triggering for you. And you can also refer to the show notes for mental health resources should you need them.

[Franke Mastrone]

Frankie, Sean, you just took your bow.

[Frankie Mastrone]

I did.

[Sean Hayden]

You just.

[Frankie Mastrone]

First one in more than two years.

[Franke Mastrone]

The show was fantastic.

[Frankie Mastrone]

Thank you.

[Franke Mastrone]

You were fantastic. How do you feel?

[Frankie Mastrone]

I feel like I'm home. I just. I feel like I'm. I have so few words to describe it, but I really, truly feel like I'm home.

[Sean Hayden]

That's Frankie Mastrone. And in that recording, she's a 20 year old actor from Stamford, Connecticut, and I'm standing backstage with her at a black box theater in April of 2024. Frankie is in a student production at Purchase College in Purchase, New York, and we're celebrating.

[Frankie Mastrone]

It's like I didn't know where home was for so long, and now I'm there, you know, and it's just the amount of love that went into making this show and support, it's just, there's no reason to have hate and disrespect. It's just not necessary. Theater is love. And there was a period of time, a long period of time, where I truly never saw myself doing this ever again. This is one of the moments in my life. This is a big moment in my life.

[Sean Hayden]

You see, I've just watched Frankie do something absolutely remarkable. She's just taken a bow in front of an audience after literally surviving the last two years of her life. Two years of being trapped in severe trauma that all began when Frankie enrolled as a student in the Midwest in a BFA Theater studies program.

[Frankie Mastrone]

It's almost like being behind a plexiglass room and you're banging on the plexiglass and yelling that this is an issue and this is something going on. And the people on the other side can see you, but they can't hear you. They can't hear you. So there's nothing wrong because we can't hear you.

[Sean Hayden]

Hearing Frankie's story really made me think, how does one recover from severe trauma inflicted at such a young age? And I think her story poses real questions about the damage many of the theater programs in this country can do to young artists for life. I'm Sean Hayden and you're listening to episode 15 of stage, the podcast Frankie Takes a Bow.

[Franke Mastrone]

All right. Hi, Frankie.

[Frankie Mastrone]

Hi, Sean. Good to see you.

[Franke Mastrone]

And you're feeling good today?

[Frankie Mastrone]

I am. I am feeling good today. I have a little so Frankie and.

[Sean Hayden]

I began a series of recordings over a year ago. Frankie had just listened to my own story about the Good Speed Opera House. She reached out to us to share her story.

[Frankie Mastrone]

So I had taken a gap year after graduating high school, because at the time, I was planning on majoring in either musical theater or acting. So I was in my first year. I was 19, and then my first year at my first university in the Midwest.

[Franke Mastrone]

So you were out of state and away from home.

[Frankie Mastrone]

Yeah, and that played a major part of it because, you know, I thought I wanted to have that whole going far away to school experience. But the Midwest is very, very different. And because of COVID I didn't get to visit the school before I decided to go. It was a very naive decision that I made.

[Franke Mastrone]

You know, going off to school is. At a young age is already a very traumatic experience, and you are very vulnerable. And then to go into a program which is all about your vulnerability.

[Frankie Mastrone]

Yeah. Mm. When we get to college, I think we think we're a lot more grown up than we are. And I thought that I was prepared for so much more than I actually was. And I started dating someone that was much older than me, and I experienced a sexual assault. And it was something that I just didn't know how to cope with at the time. I had gotten there in August. It happened in October, and so I just wanted to sort of push it away and pretend like it didn't happen, and just told myself that it wasn't that big of a deal and I was going to be fine, and I just had too much going on. I had too much to worry about, and. And I never pressed charges. I just. Like I said, I just pretended like it didn't happen.

[Franke Mastrone]

So let's just pause right there. I'm so sorry, Frankie. And, I mean, thank you for sharing that with me. That's huge stuff. It's huge stuff.

[Frankie Mastrone]

Yeah.

[Franke Mastrone]

Was this someone who lived in this area?

[Frankie Mastrone]

Yeah, it was a grad student. And I don't blame myself at all for that. But because I didn't seek counseling immediately after that incident, I just. I mean, nobody knows what to do. I can't speak for anyone else that's experienced that, but I just. You don't know what to do when something like that happens to you. But the resources for mental health on most college campuses are not where they need to be. Nine times out of ten, it's graduate students. I would not have been comfortable going to a graduate student and telling them all of this trauma that had just happened to me and what I was going through in the town where I was living, where the university was, there was actually a domestic violence center that wasn't affiliated with the school, that had support groups that had different resources. And I called them, I believe, in October, and it wasn't until February that they'd even returned my call because they're a nonprofit, they're overworked. I wasn't in a life threatening situation.

[Franke Mastrone]

And you were also physically isolated in this college setting that was in the Midwest and sounds like it was a pretty rural setting.

[Frankie Mastrone]

It was very rural, yes. And so being in that environment along with the trauma was a recipe for disaster.

[Sean Hayden]

So, Frankie, on top of having been sexually assaulted by a graduate student, you were thrown into this intense training in your theater program around the same time. What did the training require of you?

[Frankie Mastrone]

Pain, Fear. There's a lot of tears. They really encouraged tears.

[Franke Mastrone]

They really wanted you to go there. Right?

[Frankie Mastrone]

It was very much, we want you guys to get raw and we want you to get deep and we want you to really connect with your deep, like the emotions that are in your belly and in your core of you and really dig into there and really let it out. And at the time, I tried to tell myself that it was a positive thing. It was an opportunity to process what I was going through. But that ended up being dangerous because I was convincing myself that, that I didn't need therapy. And so that I learned later on in therapy that that actually sort of created more of an open wound in my psyche and in my emotional life because I was expressing all of these emotions in a non structured space without a therapist.

[Franke Mastrone]

Did it feel like mining for trauma? That's what it sounds like.

[Frankie Mastrone]

It's the definition, the definition of mining for trauma. And on the one hand, I suppose it can be argued or it can be said that, well, the student should know. The student should say they should know if they're not ready for that. But how is an 18 or 19 year old gonna know that that's something that they're not ready for when they've never taken this type of class before, when they've never done anything like this before?

[Franke Mastrone]

And there's no mental health professional that's part of the class, right?

[Frankie Mastrone]

Absolutely not. No.

[Franke Mastrone]

There's no consultation with a behavioral health consultant?

[Frankie Mastrone]

No, absolutely not.

[Franke Mastrone]

Is there even a health and wellness class that's part of the program in that first year?

[Frankie Mastrone]

No.

[Franke Mastrone]

So you're, you're on your own.

[Frankie Mastrone]

You're completely on your own.

[Sean Hayden]

So, Frankie, not long after you were sexually Assaulted by a graduate student. You were thrown into your school's curriculum, which felt like mining for trauma. And then my understanding is you experienced this other event within your school.

[Frankie Mastrone]

At that time, I believe There were about 12 students in the cohort, the BFA acting cohort. And there were two students, two male students in that cohort that.

[Sean Hayden]

I don't know what a cohort is.

[Franke Mastrone]

Frankie, what is that?

[Frankie Mastrone]

Oh, I'm sorry. So that's just the way they described it.

[Franke Mastrone]

That does sound like something from a comic book.

[Frankie Mastrone]

I know. Yeah, it's a little bit. Drink the Kool Aid, in my opinion. Like, they.

[Sean Hayden]

The cohort.

[Frankie Mastrone]

Yeah, it's that group of students of that class. So, like, most schools just call it a class.

[Franke Mastrone]

So a very small program.

[Frankie Mastrone]

Very small program, yes.

[Franke Mastrone]

So, I mean, that's an interesting fact, because with a smaller class, then when there's a disruption within that class from a member of that class, it has a much greater impact.

[Frankie Mastrone]

Oh, it affected everyone. So there were two male students. Myself and a friend of mine at the time had rejected their advances.

[Franke Mastrone]

And let's be clear.

[Sean Hayden]

These were two male undergraduate students in your class, not graduate students, who were making sexual advances.

[Frankie Mastrone]

Yeah, exactly. They were not kind individuals. They were not mature individuals. What ended up happening was there was a group chat. Group chat. Drama. Very, very common.

[Sean Hayden]

This was a group chat on an app on your phone between the 12 of us.

[Frankie Mastrone]

Yeah. Another female student in the class in the cohort had been called a bitch by one of these two gentlemen, and myself and my friend at the time stuck up for her in an unfiltered way. I will admit that.

[Franke Mastrone]

Because there was misogyny going on.

[Frankie Mastrone]

Because there was misogyny. Exactly. And we weren't gonna stand for that. And mind you, this is all of her text in the group chat, we started receiving paragraphs of insults and humiliation from one of the guys.

[Franke Mastrone]

Would it traumatize you to repeat what they said?

[Frankie Mastrone]

No, no. I mean, they said things about me specifically, that I was a whore and that I was easy and that I would. Something along the lines of like, I'll open my legs for anyone or something like that.

[Franke Mastrone]

Oh, my God.

[Frankie Mastrone]

Which is ironic because I was rejecting them. Exactly. And so it was just absolutely insane. And I'm sorry. It was just an absolutely horrible experience. So I was just in a very vulnerable state at the time.

[Franke Mastrone]

You had experienced your own horrifying assault with the graduate student, and then you were the subject of these deplorable misogynistic insults from this one guy in your class. That was being communicated to the entire class. That's what's shocking about this. Did anyone in the class speak up?

[Frankie Mastrone]

Not in a way that was like, hey, guys, you need to stop talking to them like that. And so it was mostly a couple people from the class saying, like, guys, enough. You have to stop. But it was also directed at the three of us. So myself, the other woman that this was directed towards, and the male student that was sending these messages, they were telling all three of us to stop.

[Franke Mastrone]

So they were collectively putting you in a basket with the guy who was really actually committing the bad acts?

[Frankie Mastrone]

That can absolutely be said, yeah. Which was just insane.

[Franke Mastrone]

Was it bizarre to you that other young women were not speaking up for a young woman that was also being attacked?

[Frankie Mastrone]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was hard. That was really hard. Because we all know how it feels to be shamed for just existing as a woman and to be sexualized and ridiculed for rejecting sexual advances and to be punished, essentially. So that was really hard for myself and the other woman involved to not feel supported. But then again, you know, if you want to talk about systems and you want to talk about patriarchy, they were probably equally as scared because maybe if they had spoken up, they would have received the same backlash and the same abuse.

[Sean Hayden]

When the text message incident happened, did you go to the administration then?

[Frankie Mastrone]

No, we didn't.

[Sean Hayden]

How come?

[Frankie Mastrone]

My assault had already happened pretty recently, recently before, and I already just felt so much shame in my life, and I. I think that was just another thing, you know what I mean, to deal with. It was just too much.

[Sean Hayden]

It would have felt like too much to take that on in terms of going to the administration and filing a complaint, given what was happening in your life.

[Frankie Mastrone]

I didn't have it in me, you know?

[Sean Hayden]

Following the text message incident, Frankie witnessed more bullying behavior by the male student. She saw him engage in an abusive relationship with another woman in the class, which prompted a friend of that woman to file a complaint with the school. Frankie also witnessed the male student threaten a physical fight with another male student in the class. And after the Christmas break, Frankie found herself at the airport, nervous about returning to school.

[Frankie Mastrone]

You know when you, like, feel in your body that you should not be doing something? Leaving my house to go to the airport, I just started to feel this, like, worse and worse and worse. It's like my body knew that I shouldn't be there before my brain did.

[Franke Mastrone]

Do you think your body was telling you that that was not a safe place, that campus?

[Frankie Mastrone]

I think so, yeah. I think so. Yeah. And the student that we have the bullying instance with, none of that had been resolved. And so myself and the other students that had had that issue were also coming into the semester with that fear and that, oh, what's going to happen?

[Sean Hayden]

So Frankie showed up for class only to learn that her acting professor had paired her up with the male student who had bullied her. Franke went to her professor and told her what had been going on with this male student.

[Frankie Mastrone]

And they said, okay, you got it. We won't pair you up with them. But then didn't even think about it for there was no further action. There was no, like, oh, that's serious. Her response to me, more or less, it was, well, I don't know the full story. Who's to say what actually happened? This is only one side of the story. I can't pick sides. I can't just, you know, tell him that he is a harmful. I can't just. I can't. What am I supposed to do in this situation? When multiple students are telling you that they don't feel safe emotionally and physically to work with another student, that should be a big red flag. That should be something that you should then, as the professor, go to your boss and say, hey, this is an issue.

[Franke Mastrone]

And then at some point after that, Frankie, do you go to an administrator?

[Frankie Mastrone]

Yeah, because the professor said, you know, this is out of our hands. You know, we can't pick sides, so you have to go to the administration. So four people, including myself, went to the dean of the school, which is all encompassing theater, art, music, all of that stuff, who then said, well, this is not my problem. This is the head of the theater department's problem, so you need to go to them. And we said, that's crazy. But okay. So we went to that person who then gave us basically the same answer that everybody else did, which was that there's nothing I can do.

[Franke Mastrone]

And was that the end of it? In terms of the response from anyone at the school?

[Frankie Mastrone]

Yes. Yes.

[Sean Hayden]

Did you wonder why the male student who bullied you appeared to have some kind of hold over the people running the program? I mean, that's what it felt like, right?

[Frankie Mastrone]

Yeah. And at the end of the day, these programs are trying. They're not trying to create the most. And this is just my opinion and my experience. I can't speak for anyone else, but they're trying to create the most marketable people, the most marketable actors. And they.

[Franke Mastrone]

They thought he was marketable.

[Frankie Mastrone]

They did. And they thought that he was someone that they could say, this person went to this school, and he's going to be very successful one day, and everybody's going to know that this is where he got his bfa. And so they thought he was worth the trouble, I suppose, because he. Because he was a good actor, and they didn't really care that he wasn't a good person.

[Franke Mastrone]

So the Chad story in stage combat must have just really been difficult for you to hear.

[Frankie Mastrone]

Yeah, it was like I was hearing a different version of the same story, honestly. And at first it was surprising, but as I started reflecting and really connecting our stories and other stories of people that I know in the industry and in BFA programs, I was like this. It's an archetype that we see everywhere, and it's almost like being behind a plexiglass room and you're banging on the plexiglass and yelling that this is an issue and this is something going on. And the people on the other side can see you, but they can't hear you. They can't hear you. So there's nothing wrong because we can't hear you.

[Sean Hayden]

So what was the effect of the school not responding?

[Frankie Mastrone]

It definitely contributed to my mental health spiral, for sure, because it was a fear that was never resolved. It was an extra. The term extra trauma doesn't feel right to say, but that's almost what it was.

[Franke Mastrone]

It was the presence of an additional trauma.

[Frankie Mastrone]

An additional fear. Yeah.

[Franke Mastrone]

That really invoked the assault that you experienced, right?

[Frankie Mastrone]

Exactly. And the fear of something happening to me being harmed again and not having anybody trying to prevent that. What's frustrating is that it was played off as, oh, these kids, they can't get along. They just can't get along. And it's like, no, it was serious. It was serious threats, and it was just not ever taken seriously.

[Sean Hayden]

So after the events in her life and at school, things reached a breaking point for Frankie.

[Frankie Mastrone]

I don't know if you've ever experienced this, but I got to a point where I woke up one day, and physically, I could feel my heart drop to the floor. And that was the beginning of the suicidality for me, the passive suicidal thoughts. I realized that I needed to get serious help, and I ended up admitting myself to a mental health hospital either the last week of April or first week of May of that semester, which was right before finals. That decision genuinely saved my life.

[Franke Mastrone]

Was that at a hospital in that area?

[Frankie Mastrone]

Yeah. It wasn't until I stepped into the hospital and they brought me to the unit, and I was with my peers. I was with the other patients. And someone asked me why I was there, and I said, well, I want to kill myself. And she said, why do you want to kill yourself? And I said, because I was raped. And from October to May, I had not acknowledged that.

[Franke Mastrone]

You'd never said those words out loud.

[Frankie Mastrone]

No.

[Sean Hayden]

And while admitting herself to the local hospital saved Frankie's life, it soon became clear to her that she wasn't getting the right treatment.

[Frankie Mastrone]

My experience there was sort of a situation where, okay, we're gonna get you to the point where you don't want to take your own life anymore and then send you on your way. And so I wasn't assessed for PTSD because I went in with suicidality. So I was just put on antidepressants, waited until they started working, and then sent on my way. So I got on medication at that time, finished my finals, went home. And then over the summer was sort of a continuation of thinking, I'm healing when I'm actually not, especially because I was on the wrong medication, I later learned, and I was in the wrong form of therapy. I wasn't in trauma therapy. I was just in regular talk therapy.

[Sean Hayden]

After recuperating at home in Connecticut, Franke returned back to the Midwest to begin her second year in her theater program.

[Frankie Mastrone]

And so I was like, I got this. I can do it all. I'm healed. I'm ready for sophomore year in the bfa. Like, let's do it. And as we know, with ptsd, bringing yourself back into the physical environment that caused your trauma can make you spin out.

[Franke Mastrone]

And it sounds like the trauma had not been treated right.

[Frankie Mastrone]

It wasn't treated at all yet.

[Franke Mastrone]

And so you went back to the site of the trauma.

[Frankie Mastrone]

Exactly. And I was living in the town, living a few blocks away from where I was assaulted. And so being back in that environment is what caused my psychotic break. And this was the point where I was slipping from mania to psychosis. And I actually was in a situation where I thought that I was being tracked and sort of hunted by the person that attacked me. Basically, my housemates got together, and I sort of had a conversation with them and was like, I don't know if I should stay. And then ultimately, I decided that I should go home. And they were supportive. And then when I got home, the suicidality came back. I really, really didn't want to go back to the hospital. And so I just started cold calling therapists. Literally probably called 20 to 30 therapists. But I finally found a therapist, and she. She helped me.

[Franke Mastrone]

And what are you feeling right now.

[Frankie Mastrone]

Gratitude for my therapist, Sean, finding the right therapist is like. It's like winning the lottery. I don't even know how to describe it when you have been in such trauma and tragedy and pain. Pain and hell, it was. It was everything. And I started seeing her for a few weeks, but unfortunately, we just couldn't get me on the medication that I needed to be on yet. And so I did end up having sort of a final break with reality and having to go back to the hospital in Stanford. And that was in September. So it wasn't until 11 months after the initial trauma that I actually started healing.

[Sean Hayden]

So Frankie made a difficult decision. She decided to leave her BFA program in the Midwest. Frankie's story really affected me, and I'm left with a lot of questions regarding the failings of these theater programs programs in light of what they are asking young, vulnerable artists to do. I wanted to get some more insights from a theater educator I know from Boston Conservatory. And so, with Frankie's blessing, I sat down with Professor Jessica Webb. So, Jessica, I think we can all agree that all schools need to handle bullying incidents like Frankie experienced. And that conversation has been going on for years. But there's another conversation we have not been having specifically with theater programs. How important is it for these programs to take into account the trauma that any student, as part of their own life history, could be bringing into the program?

[Jessica Webb]

Good Lord. It is absolutely the most important thing. You are your own instrument. We don't have the luxury of having a separate nervous system or separate body that we can leave outside the door and put on our artistry in the same way as our violinist friends as other musicians, you carry your instrument with you. And so, as much as I appreciate this concept of separation, physiologically from all of the studying and training I have done around the nervous system regulation and trauma processing in. It's not actually possible to do it. And so I have to be aware. I have to be learned in my own instrument and my own system. And I also have to learn about signs and cues of trauma. And that has to be a conversation and part of the educational institution. When we're talking about any kind of acting training. You can't just have the luxury of folks who created some of these methodologies. We didn't know about psychology in depth at that point. We were talking about trauma. Not until Bessel Van der Kolk and Peter Levine really brought this into the forefront. I think what upsets me is that we do know now, and yet somehow we almost opt out. We're sort of talking around it.

[Sean Hayden]

So I think we need to acknowledge that the state of play right now still with most theater programs is they're not taking into account the trauma that any student can be bringing into the program and helping or having skills to help navigate those students so that they're not causing further harm to themselves.

[Jessica Webb]

And if we are not doing that, we are harming the way that we are teaching is wrong. If we are not including the whole student, if we are not assuming, and I am saying that very explicitly, we should be assuming that everyone has trauma because you cannot be a human being on the planet without experiencing. The World Health Organization says a lingering ill effect on self or psyche is the definition of trauma after an event. I cannot name one person I have encountered on the planet who doesn't have some level of a lingering ill effect of or psyche after an event. And so yes, of course it ranges, but we all have something. So if you are not thinking about working with a trauma influenced lens, you are actively harming the students in front of you. That's not teaching.

[Sean Hayden]

Yeah, but the other side of this, Jessica, is there is a better way to teach and there's a better way to care for your students, which is the approach that you take with your students.

[Jessica Webb]

I think we have to center our students and give them agency. And I will speak for myself as a faculty member. There's a lot of unlearning I needed to do when I first came to teaching this work. I'm looking at, I'm listening to my students and I'm teaching them how to listen to their own nervous systems. Trauma is what happens when it's stops being a conversation. Trauma is what happens when we go into overwhelm, when things activation of the system gets so fast and so big, all of a sudden we're there. And that's something that I used to get praised for. That was something that I would almost brag about is how quickly I could bring myself to tears and sob on the floor. And it wasn't until my work with Betsy Politin, with the actor Secret, who stopped me as I was training with her and said, slow down. And I was offended. What do you mean, slow down? I was taught for years in my training to get there and get there fast. And she said, you're not with yourself, you're putting yourself in a separation where you're bringing yourself into overwhelm. And even learning that has helped me. It doesn't mean that I don't still go to deeper places that I can't access Things. But I have choices now around what has actually been processed. We speak from the scars, not from the open wounds.

[Sean Hayden]

So, I mean, that really is key is the approach of speaking from scars and not open wounds. And so let's just take Frankie's case. She was doing these exercises from the open wound of having just been raped. There was no scar to go to.

[Jessica Webb]

No.

[Sean Hayden]

Okay, Jessica Webb, where do we go from here? How do we make things better in these theater programs? Is it just a matter that we need to keep elevating this conversation? Shouldn't this be the conversation every theater program in America is having right now?

[Jessica Webb]

Yes, it should. It absolutely should. And until it is, I think this is where we're looking at. Top down, bottom up. And so I'm talking. I'm gonna keep talking. I'm gonna watch some people roll their eyes.

[Frankie Mastrone]

But.

[Jessica Webb]

But frankly, I'm seeing less and less folks questioning or rolling their eyes and more and more agreeing so that we're creating a network and a community of having this information and passing it on to others, of normalizing these conversations. I think it's going to take our students, who are, unfortunately, just as I did. We have to educate ourselves. If our educators are not educated, that's not enough. We have to learn. We have to listen, to hear these conversations and then slowly bring these conversations into other spaces. And what brings me hope. Every summer, I do a program with high school students where we spend a day talking about consent. We talk about the nervous system, and then we talk about consent. What does consent mean as a student and a teacher in a classroom? And I think what brings me joy is that last summer, there were 68 folks who left my space and went back across the country, some international, with that conversation, to bring that conversation into their theater programs. So we're starting in high schools. We're starting in local theater programs. Some of them were a little bit older. They brought that back to their college, their institution, institutions. And so little by little, to bring it back to this is what I know I can do. I can talk to Sean today, and I can talk about what I believe in. And I hope that someone can hear that and recognize themselves in this conversation, unfortunately, in Frankie's conversation, but that this is the beginning of the conversation and not the end. And then I hope we get to stop talking about it, because we've gotten the note.

[Sean Hayden]

Yeah, we've gotten the note. Now do something about it. Do something about it. Thank you, Jessica Webb. Keep doing the good work.

[Jessica Webb]

Thank you, Sean.

[Sean Hayden]

It's January of 2020. 4. And I'm checking in to see where Frankie has landed after leaving her BFA program in 2022. Frankie, how are you doing?

[Frankie Mastrone]

I'm doing okay. I'm thankful to be on the right medication now and in the right treatment so that I can share this and share this with you and hopefully other people like me that have gone through this as well. But, you know, I'm okay now. I couldn't say that for a long time, but I'm okay now. I'm good, actually. I'm good.

[Sean Hayden]

Looking back, how do you feel about your decision to leave the BFA program in the Midwest?

[Frankie Mastrone]

There was no way for me to heal and stay in a BFA program. It just wasn't possible. It was so hard for me to leave a BFA program because they're so hard to get into in the first place. And so it's regardless of how much you're hurting, it's just hard to give that up.

[Sean Hayden]

Do you place some blame on that university for what you went through?

[Frankie Mastrone]

I mean, in hindsight, I definitely do place blame on the university. But you do have to acknowledge that it's a systemic issue because it didn't just happen at this one place. It happens at universities and other theater institutions. I blame systems, if that tracks, if that makes sense. I blame the mentality in our industry that we just have to keep going, that whatever we're dealing with isn't enough reason to stop going to class and stop being a performer. And that was still just one of many reasons why it took me so long to get help.

[Sean Hayden]

So how do you feel about your new school? You've enrolled at Purchase College in Purchase, New York, and you're in a Bachelor of Arts theater program now.

[Frankie Mastrone]

I'm in a place where it's like a working relationship with the school. I'm just trying to get the education, you know, like, what can I do? How do I develop relationships with professors and have the best experience there and just develop the best relationships and graduate? And it's not like I'm putting this actor training on a pedestal. So that change in perspective and the change in priorities makes it very different as well.

[Franke Mastrone]

So, Franke, I understand you're going to go back on stage.

[Frankie Mastrone]

I am. I am.

[Franke Mastrone]

Tell me about that.

[Frankie Mastrone]

So in April, I will be doing an original play at my school. I've never done a role this size before, and it'll be my first time going.

[Sean Hayden]

And so Frankie began rehearsals for her show at her college. And just to catch you up on the timeline, yes, that's the show where we began this episode.

[Frankie Mastrone]

So I just finished my first rehearsal for my first play since 2020 22, and I was a bit nervous going into it. It was a table work rehearsal, and.

[Sean Hayden]

Though Frankie would be forced to face her own fears, I'm just really starting.

[Frankie Mastrone]

To second guess myself. I feel like a newborn baby that, like, I just feel like I've never done this before and I've done it my entire life. And it's just such a weird feeling. Like I thought that I would at least have some, like, feeling of, like.

[Sean Hayden]

Feeling at home, feeling she found herself not afraid to ask for support.

[Frankie Mastrone]

It was a very long day, but I ended up realizing that I needed to talk to my stage manager and directly director and let them know what I'm struggling with. How this was my first show after a mental health crisis, and they couldn't have been more accepting and more understanding and more reassuring.

[Sean Hayden]

And Frankie finally found her strength.

[Frankie Mastrone]

I went into rehearsal and I sort of felt. I felt like I was in the enough of a person to be able to make art.

[Sean Hayden]

And In April of 2024, I sat in the audience and watched Frankie deliver a performance filled with purpose. And as you heard at the beginning of this story, Frankie and I celebrated together backstage.

[Franke Mastrone]

Frankie, Sean, you just took your bow.

[Frankie Mastrone]

I feel like I'm home. This is one of the moments in my life. This is a big moment in my life.

[Sean Hayden]

Nine months later, I caught up with Frankie to see what's happened in her life since taking her first bow. I say first because since then, Frankie has already performed in her second show at our new school. Frankie, how are you?

[Frankie Mastrone]

I'm slaying. Sean, you're slaying. I'm doing so well. I really, absolutely loving life right now. I mean, all of the normal stressors of life are still there. Obviously. Life is, you know, school, work, all of those things are those things. But objectively, I'm the happiest. I really, really am.

[Sean Hayden]

Frankie, you don't know how happy that makes me to hear that.

[Frankie Mastrone]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sean Hayden]

Do you remember after your first performance and we were talking, you and I went in that little room and we played part of that at the beginning of this episode, but I didn't play the end of it. And you said to me, we have to keep going.

[Frankie Mastrone]

It's so easy to quit, but you can't because it's possible. I'm proof. You, Sean, are proof we won. It's our story.

[Sean Hayden]

Do you still feel that way?

[Frankie Mastrone]

Yes, I do. I absolutely do.

[Sean Hayden]

So looking back at everything you went through. Do you feel like you found your story?

[Frankie Mastrone]

Yeah. And I think story is one way to put it. I think what's a really good way to put it? Because story doesn't necessarily imply a finish line. Not that recovery is never over, but I like the term journey and like reaching a goal.

[Sean Hayden]

Well, the more I think about this, story does have an implication of looking back to the past. Right. And I think where you are is that was your story, but now maybe you're just living your life.

[Frankie Mastrone]

Exactly. My past is no longer something that I think about on a daily basis. Not that it's not something that I think about. It can be so cliche to say my past doesn't define me.

[Sean Hayden]

Well, it's not a cliche if it's true.

[Jessica Webb]

That's true.

[Frankie Mastrone]

That's true. Yeah. You know, it's funny, Sean, what I forget now sometimes how big that moment really was.

[Sean Hayden]

That's what you told me backstage. That was one of the biggest moments in your life.

[Frankie Mastrone]

Yeah. Like, I have so much love and so. And I have so much excitement for just getting to live my life every day. That's my day to day. You know, I have moments every day now.

[Sean Hayden]

If you or someone you know has been sexually assaulted, help is available by contacting the national Sexual assault hotline at 1-800-656-HOPE. Help is also available at the Suicide in Crisis Lifeline 24 hours a day by calling or texting 9-8 8. That's 9, 8 8. Coming up on the next episode of Stage Combat. The podcast goes into the world of the Broadway costume industry as costumer Court Watson, in his first podcast interview details his explosive allegations against Tony Award winning costume designer William Ivy Long.

[E]

One of the members of the costume shop staff had been experiencing unwanted sexual overtures that made him very uncomfortable.

[Franke Mastrone]

By whom?

[E]

By one of Long's associates.

[Franke Mastrone]

And then what happened in the meeting?

[E]

We were called into the executive director's office and Mr. Long said to us, there is no such thing as sexual harassment in the American theater. And he went on to say that no jury would ever convict someone of sexual harassment who worked in the theater because we're all pimps and whores.

[Sean Hayden]

He said that?

[E]

He said that.

[Sean Hayden]

That's coming up in a special two part episode, the Court Watson Story. Hear more of my conversation with Frankie at Stage Combat at Patreon. Just follow the link in the show notes. This episode was edited by Alex Griffith. Mixing and sound design were by Justin Gerrish and it was written and directed by me, Sean Hayden for Heywood, Productions, llc. A reminder that the content in this episode is not medical advice, please consult with a medical professional. This content is also not legal advice, so please consult with an attorney. We would love to hear from you. Please drop us a DM on Instagram @stagecombatthepodcast IG and let us know what you thought about this episode. You can also email [e-mail] and we appreciate you rating and reviewing Stage Combat.

[Franke Mastrone]

The podcast on your podcast platform, so.

[Sean Hayden]

You can let others know what the podcast means to you. I hope today and every day brings you an opportunity to claim your story. Stage Combat is a production of Heywood Productions, llc.