"Putting It Out There"

Summary

Stage Combat The Podcast – Episode Summary: "Putting It Out There"

Release Date: October 21, 2024
Season: 3, Episode 8
Host: Sean Hayden
Guests: Jeff Roberson, Chrissy Whitehead, Director Michael Shirali

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Introduction: Celebrating a Milestone and Setting the Stage

In the episode titled "Putting It Out There," host Sean Hayden marks the one-year anniversary of a pivotal social media post that launched Stage Combat The Podcast. This milestone segues into a profound exploration of mental health narratives within the performing arts community. Sean reflects on his personal journey, sharing the anxiety and fear that accompanied the decision to publicly disclose his mental health struggles related to his time at the Goodspeed Opera House.

Sean Hayden [00:01]: "This can't happen."

The episode emphasizes the importance of transparency and vulnerability, themes that resonate deeply with listeners who have felt silenced in their professional environments.

Guest Feature: Jeff Roberson – From Stage to Personal Struggles

Introducing Varla Jean Merman

Jeff Roberson, an accomplished actor known for his Broadway role as Mary Sunshine in Chicago the Musical and his legendary drag persona, Varla Jean Merman, joins Sean to discuss his journey with anxiety and how it intertwines with his performances. Jeff humorously introduces Varla Jean, a character he created in 1990, blending rich backstory elements that add depth to his performances.

Jeff Roberson [05:10]: "Varla Jean is a character I came up with about 1990... If she had had a child with Mr. Borgnine, you know, it would have reminded her too much of the marriage."

Navigating Anxiety Through Performance

Jeff delves into his anxiety crisis, triggered exacerbated by the post-COVID resurgence in the performing arts industry. He recounts a particularly intense panic attack that became the catalyst for his solo show, Ready to Blow, which humorously and poignantly examines the roots of his anxiety.

Jeff Roberson [08:04]: "It was terrifying."

Through his show, Jeff aimed to demystify anxiety, making it accessible and relatable to both those who experience it and those who don't. The dual-layered approach allowed audiences to understand and empathize, fostering a sense of community and reducing the stigma around mental health.

Jeff Roberson [13:45]: "I was making fun of it. I was making fun of my reactions."

Guest Feature: Chrissy Whitehead – A Journey Through Bipolar Disorder

Introducing Chrissy Whitehead

Chrissy Whitehead, a Broadway veteran whose auditions were featured in the documentary Every Little Step, shares her personal story in her solo show, In My Own Little: My Mom, My Moods, and Me. Her narrative intertwines her mother's death and her late diagnosis of bipolar disorder at age 38, offering a raw and honest portrayal of her mental health journey.

Chrissy Whitehead [22:24]: "Wanted to be a Rockette. I became a Rockette, and then I became an actress and a singer and now an author and a producer and just trying to be an overall okay human being."

Confronting Stigmas and Embracing Truth

Chrissy discusses the stigma surrounding bipolar disorder and the courage it took to accept her diagnosis. Through her show, she aims to normalize conversations about mental health, emphasizing the importance of facing one's truths to find clarity and freedom.

Michael Shirali [23:31]: "Bipolar was not on my radar for most of my life."

Her collaboration with director Brian Knowlton transforms her initial script into a compelling love story between mother and daughter, highlighting the complexities of familial relationships and personal identity.

Chrissy Whitehead [29:15]: "It was more of a showmanship of, like, a celebration of work with lots of sprinkles of mom and her bipolar."

Creating and Performing Solo Shows: Insights and Advice

Both Jeff and Chrissy share invaluable insights into crafting solo performances that encapsulate personal mental health stories.

Jeff Roberson on Directing and Collaboration

Jeff emphasizes the importance of collaboration, particularly the role of a director in refining and enhancing personal narratives.

Jeff Roberson [15:55]: "If you're a writer and the person performing, you got to get a director."

He credits director Michael Shirali for elevating his show, demonstrating how external perspectives can transform individual stories into relatable and impactful performances.

Chrissy Whitehead on Writing and Structuring Personal Narratives

Chrissy advises aspiring solo performers to structure their stories in chapters, allowing for a coherent and engaging narrative flow. She underscores the significance of involving others in the creative process to gain diverse perspectives and ensure the story resonates with audiences.

Michael Shirali [37:46]: "Just write."

Chrissy Whitehead [38:31]: "Take your time and listen to yourself."

Audience Reactions: Building Community and Finding Hope

Both performers recount the profound impact their shows have had on audiences, highlighting moments of connection and shared experiences.

Jeff Roberson’s Impact

Jeff shares how his show Ready to Blow not only educated audiences about anxiety but also provided a sense of validation and camaraderie for those experiencing similar struggles.

Jeff Roberson [13:45]: "I have not had another anxiety attack."

Chrissy Whitehead’s Resonance

Chrissy describes the emotional responses from audience members, including individuals who identified directly with her story, reinforcing the episode's central theme of claiming one's story to foster community and support.

Michael Shirali [35:32]: "We have a projection, a slide that beams up hope... hope that it's gonna work out okay."

Chrissy Whitehead [34:45]: "I'm seeing it in real time from another Human being affected by art."

Advice for Aspiring Storytellers: From Hosts and Guests

Sean Hayden, Jeff Roberson, Chrissy Whitehead, and director Brian Knowlton collectively offer practical advice for listeners looking to share their own mental health stories through solo performance.

Chrissy Whitehead [37:46]: "Just write chapter two... Just write, right?"

Brian Knowlton [38:21]: "It takes a multitude of people to run a ship, not just one person."

The consensus is clear: authenticity, collaboration, and patience are key components in effectively conveying personal narratives.

Conclusion: The Power of Sharing Stories

Sean wraps up the episode by reiterating the significance of sharing personal mental health stories as a means of building community and offering hope. He encourages listeners to reach out and share their experiences, emphasizing that no formal training is required to take that first step in telling one's story.

Sean Hayden [40:49]: "Telling your story can be just a matter of being willing to reach out, to share what you're going through."

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Key Takeaways:

• Authenticity and Vulnerability: Sharing personal mental health struggles can foster community and reduce stigma.

• Collaboration is Crucial: Working with directors and dramaturgs can enhance and refine personal narratives.

• Hope and Connection: Personal stories on stage can provide hope and a sense of belonging for both performers and audiences.

• Practical Steps: Aspiring storytellers should start by writing their experiences in structured formats and seek feedback from trusted collaborators.

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Notable Quotes:

• Sean Hayden [10:31]: "It's what happens when you're a sickening drag queen who develops an anxiety disorder and panic attacks?"

• Jeff Roberson [13:45]: "It worked on two levels. It worked on kind of explaining it to people who had no idea what they were..."

• Chrissy Whitehead [34:28]: "She really was like. She really meant so well."

• Michael Shirali [40:49]: "When you face reality and you face what you are so scared of, it dissipates."

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Closing Thoughts:

"Putting It Out There" serves as a powerful testament to the courage it takes to share one's mental health journey. Through the stories of Jeff Roberson and Chrissy Whitehead, listeners are reminded of the importance of community, the healing power of storytelling, and the enduring hope that comes from claiming one's narrative.

For more in-depth conversations and exclusive content, listeners are encouraged to join Stage Combat The Podcast on Patreon, where additional episodes and behind-the-scenes discussions await.

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This summary was crafted based on the transcript provided and adheres to guidelines for clarity, structure, and engagement. For further exploration of the topics discussed, listening to the full episode is highly recommended.

Transcript

[Sean Hayden]

If you're only listening to Stage the podcast, did you know you're only getting half the Stage Combat experience at Stage Combat at Patreon? You can listen to bonus content episodes with extended interviews from Stage Combat the podcast. I sat there and thought, why on earth is that an option? This can't happen.

[Jeff Roberson]

This is unsafe.

[Sean Hayden]

We have an emergency. But when they want you out, they do to make you leave. Period. Don't kid yourself about it. Plus, I'll give you my own personal post show wrap up. If you have an investigation and the results are not made public, how does change happen? There's also our companion series, Just Acting, featuring Boston Conservatory at Berkeley professor of acting, Christopher Webb.

[Jeff Roberson]

What we need as a character, as an actor, is measured by the value of the loss.

[Sean Hayden]

I exploded when you texted that to me, but let's repeat it. So what's our answer? Chris? Does method acting suck? I'm gonna go with yeah. And you're gonna be a little more nuanced.

[Jeff Roberson]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayden]

I am nothing if not nuanced, Sean, you're the king of nuance. I am. I am the king of nuance. It's like getting an acting lesson in your earpods. And there's the mental health pod, featuring provocative mental health conversations that you need to hear.

[Chrissy Whitehead]

I mean, I think of being a.

[Sean Hayden]

Highly sensitive person as being a superpower. You have a greater awareness of your surroundings and an increased emotional connection. People ask me, do you think bullying is worse in theater than in other professions?

[Michael Shirali]

Yes, it's worse in my mind because.

[Jeff Roberson]

Actors define themselves by their identity.

[Chrissy Whitehead]

That's who we are.

[Sean Hayden]

So what are you waiting for? Check us out and join the Stage Combat at Patreon community. You'll find the link in the show notes. And now, on with the episode. Hey, Stage Combat listeners, just a content note. The second half of this episode does contain references to suicide, so please proceed with caution if that is potentially triggering for you. It's a beautiful March morning and Ian and I are at Tom's Diner. We're doing some eggs Benedict to celebrate a certain anniversary. Today is the one year anniversary of our social media post for Stage Combat. Okay, maybe not the anniversary you were expecting, but honestly, that day was a really big day for me and a scary one because I knew the Goodspeed Opera House was now going to find out that I had a podcast coming out telling the story of what really happened there. And I was going to be going public with my own personal mental health story. And as scary as that was, can you imagine burying your soul about your mental Health on a stage in front of the footlights, in front of a theater full of strangers, the one person autobiographical show has been having a bit of a moment. Last year, actor Anthony Rapp took the stage to share his story about death and grief in his show without you. Comedian Mike Berbeglioff performed his coming of middle age story the Old man and the Pool at Lincoln center where it was filmed for Netflix. And in this episode, we are following two very different solo performers with two very different stories.

[Michael Shirali]

The fact that somebody thought that I could be bipolar, I just, you know, the stigma in my brain was. Isn't that mean, like absolutely bonkers and crazy? So, yeah, it just wasn't on my radar.

[Jeff Roberson]

I just woke up in the middle of the night and my mind was on this crazy doomsday loop. I woke up and I thought, what is going on?

[Sean Hayden]

And we'll find out how. They each claimed their own mental health stories publicly with their own one person shows.

[Michael Shirali]

I'm still not comfortable. I'm okay with talking about the bipolar disorder because that's me. It's harder for me to, like, go tell an audience that I don't know about my mom.

[Jeff Roberson]

Well, interestingly enough, when I decided just to do the show, the reason why was just because I couldn't think of anything else but my anxiety.

[Sean Hayden]

I'm Sean Hayden and this is episode eight of season three of Stage Combat, putting it out there. Your mental health story on the stage. Jeff Roberson is an actor who has appeared on Broadway as Mary Sunshine in the revival production of Chicago the Musical. But most people today know Jeff through his drag alter ego, Varla Jean Merman.

[Jeff Roberson]

Hello, everyone. It's Varla Jean Mirman here backstage. I'm always working. It's me, Varla Jean Merman, and I'm hiding. I'm hiding in the Florida Everglades from COVID I do remember quite vividly waking up one afternoon. It's a lifestyle. And nude on the kitchen floor wasn't quite the response I wanted, but I'll take anything. There was a Roomba hitting my head over and over and over.

[Sean Hayden]

Varla Jean Mirman is a member of an elite group of drag queens that has not appeared on RuPaul's Drag Race. But Varla Jean doesn't need to. She's been legendary for decades.

[Jeff Roberson]

Well, Varla Jean is a character I came up with about 1990. Believe it or not, she was the illegitimate daughter of Ethel Merman and Ernest Borgnine, who were married like 38 days. And the reason why I came up with it is, because in Ethel Merman's autobiography, there is a chapter that says, my marriage to Ernest Borgnine. And you turn the page, and it's blank. And so I thought if she had had a child with Mr. Borgnine, you know, it would have reminded her too much of the marriage, and she would have shipped it off to an orphanage in Louisiana. And that's where I come in.

[Sean Hayden]

But what happens when you're a sickening drag queen who develops an anxiety disorder and panic attacks? To get the answers, I sat down with Jeff Roberson, his director, Michael Shirali, and Michael's dog, Nero, who you will hear barking in the background. Jeff, can you tell me when you first started experiencing your own mental health crisis with anxiety and panic?

[Jeff Roberson]

Well, it was right before Christmas a couple years ago. I just woke up in the middle of the night. I had, you know, nothing else was going on in my life that seemed any worse than anything. It was kind of after Covid, when things were sort of back together, but then it kept stopping and going. And as a performer, as you know, that's anxiety enough right there. But I just woke up in the middle of night, and my mind was on this crazy doomsday loop. I woke up, and I thought, what is going on? And I couldn't even sit in the bed. I was getting up. I was walking around the house. I was going outside. I kept walking. I was breathing heavy. My heart was racing, and it subsided a little bit after hours, but I never got any sleep. And then I went to the gym the next day, and I was just. In my head. It was just the loop. The loop, the internal voice talking, was louder than anything else. And it was so scary because you immediately think that this is how you're gonna be for the rest of your life, and it terrifies you. It was terrifying.

[Sean Hayden]

There's a certain feeling. A loss of control, right?

[Jeff Roberson]

Yes, a loss of control that my mind, you know, it's like the computer in 2000 Space Odyssey. It just. It took over. And it was right at the time, usually in January, that I write a new show, and I thought, you know what? I'm gonna. I need to figure this out. And I don't really have time to do this and write a light, funny show, so I just combined the two, and I told Mike sort of about it and that I wanted to explore why I had this anxiety. And when I told Mike that I wanted to do the show, I love Mike. He's like, okay, sounds good.

[Brian Knowlton]

Yeah, sounds like a great idea to me.

[Jeff Roberson]

Yeah, well, you Know what? It was different.

[Brian Knowlton]

But I mean, honestly, I think traumatic experiences and horrible experiences in life are some of the funniest, you know, to mine from. Because I love comedy that has a grounding underneath it.

[Sean Hayden]

So Jeff got to work and used his new show, which he called Ready to Blow, to trace the origins of his struggles with anxiety. And he went all the way back to his childhood.

[Jeff Roberson]

The funny thing, too, is that I started to just look at things as a kid that would maybe have given me anxiety, you know, where did all this start? It had to start somewhere, right? And so my mother would take me to see Broadway shows that were touring, and she wouldn't take my brothers, I think. Cause she knew I was gay. My mother hated theater. And so she would make us leave at intermission, and she would tell me that that was the end. I remember asking her, I said, what is a 15 minute interm? And she said, that's how much time we have to get out of the theater before they lock the doors. So I saw Annie. Okay. The last thing I remember is Annie is ripped out of Daddy Warbucks arms and forced to go back to the orphanage. The end. Cinderella remains in human trafficking, but now with only one shoe. I grew up thinking that Fraulein Maria had to go back to the convent and live the life all by herself.

[Sean Hayden]

Jeff, that's terrible. Oh, my God.

[Jeff Roberson]

But just thinking that that is the end. That's the end. You know what I mean? There was no happy ending.

[Sean Hayden]

Yeah, that's what happens when you live your lives in only first acts.

[Jeff Roberson]

Yes, exactly. And so that was kind of a big theme of the show that Michael had developed about having to ride through the intermission to get to the second act.

[Sean Hayden]

So, Jeff, I found your story really interesting, and I felt a camaraderie with you in that I was still really in the middle of my panic disorder when I started working on telling my story in the form of something that sounds like a true crime podcast. And you were still in the middle of your anxiety disorder when you chose to tell your story through your direct Persona in a comedy show?

[Jeff Roberson]

Well, interestingly enough, when I decided just to do the show, the reason why was just because I couldn't think of anything else but my anxiety. And when you have anxiety, as you know, the attack, that's all you think of. And so when I first did it, it was just because I couldn't think of anything else. And then I realized, oh, wow, this is helping me take the power away from it. Making fun of it. I was making fun of it. I was making fun of my reactions. Respectfully, you know, respectfully making fun of it.

[Sean Hayden]

But it's you that's doing that. It's not somebody else, which is very different.

[Jeff Roberson]

It's me. Right. You know, I'm laughing at myself, you know, and then it.

[Brian Knowlton]

Yeah. But also delving into the concept. You know what I mean? I think you were. It's just not making fun of it. As much of it as really investigating it and mining it.

[Jeff Roberson]

Yes, investigating, but making it light. Making it light. I mean, we had to, you know, it just to make it comedy. It was still a Varla show. It's not a Jeff show. It's a Varla show. And, you know, when I first did the show, it was to Jeff. I was saying the lines as Jeff, and then I had to realize, oh, my God, I have to do this as Varla or I have to laugh at myself. I have to be goofy. I mean, at the same exact time. And I thought, well, wow, is the show. What is helping? Is this my therapy? Did I just kind of figure it out to talk through it and sort of figure it out?

[Sean Hayden]

So, Jeff, at this time, while you're senior doctors, your therapist, were you able to come to some sort of conclusion as to what was causing your panic condition?

[Jeff Roberson]

I think it was that Covid and being a performer. There was something about being thrown back into the workforce and not quite being normal and thinking like an anxiety attack, that that is how it was going to be forever, that this now was my life and I was never going to make enough money now, and what was I going to do? And I think just pushing that anxiety to the surface somehow manifested in these attacks. But the main thing I learned is that you can't run away from an anxiety attack if you have one. You have to accept it. And as I like to say, you sort of have to ride the wave like you're in the ocean. If you fight the ocean, it's going to take you down. So if you're drowning in the ocean, you kind of have to ride it and ride it to shore, and eventually you will get there. And just to always know that this is temporary.

[Sean Hayden]

I so appreciate that, Jeff, because that's a lesson I had to learn as well. With my panic disorder. I used the phrase just walk right through it, and that really helped me.

[Jeff Roberson]

Yes. Yeah.

[Sean Hayden]

Let me ask you, how did the audience respond to the show?

[Jeff Roberson]

So many nights after I did the show, so many times, somebody would come up to me and say, I have them too, and I know how I just. I could feel the pain through your comedy, and a lot of people probably didn't, who don't quite relate to them, maybe didn't feel it. But to know that you're helping, you know, people who do have them, I mean, it just. It made it all worth it. But it did work on two levels. It worked on kind of explaining it to people who had no idea what they were. And it also. I think it worked on a way to make people laugh that are dealing with them as well, which, if you can laugh at something, it's temporary. Right. I mean, you know, it's. It just takes the weight out of it.

[Brian Knowlton]

You kind of disarm it a bit.

[Jeff Roberson]

Yes.

[Brian Knowlton]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sean Hayden]

Yes. Were people aware that you were telling your story as Jeff Roberson, or do you think it worked on different levels? Some people saw it as a Varley Jean story.

[Brian Knowlton]

I think it did in a weird way.

[Jeff Roberson]

I think people realized it was a total different show for me, and I think people did realize that it was the truth, you know what I mean?

[Sean Hayden]

Because it was so different than what you had done before.

[Jeff Roberson]

It was very different.

[Sean Hayden]

Yeah. It's interesting because you had to fully invest your drag Persona, Varla, with the panic disorder.

[Jeff Roberson]

Yes. And in the end, then I realized, wow, this has really helped people. And to tell you the truth, it's one of my favorite shows I've ever done, just because I know it did help people. I know it did. You know, just for people to not.

[Brian Knowlton]

Feel alone, there was a collective in the air with COVID and everybody's nerves were shot on some level, performers especially, and anybody in showbiz, because the big show must go on concept. All of a sudden, it didn't have to go on. And then it makes everybody question the validity of what I'm doing with my life. Is it really necessary? Is it so important or not? And I think a lot of people were in that mindset anyway, of not knowing what tomorrow would look like. So the show really spoke to that as well. The more political, the more personal, the more universal things become. And I really think that show hit the zeitgeist of what was happening.

[Sean Hayden]

Jeff, what would be your advice to someone looking to create and perform their own solo show?

[Jeff Roberson]

I know a lot of people want to do everything, you know, not get a director. But the smartest thing, if you're a writer and the person performing, you got to get a director. You know, you just have to get a director, or, you know, you're soaked in your own juices. You know what I Mean, so Mike has just made my show so much better than I ever even thought they were. You know, I mean, he just could tie it all together. And I depend on him now. So I write it and think, well, Michael, fix this. I'm lazy.

[Brian Knowlton]

It's always this weird sort of like, anytime Jeff has an idea, they're brilliant ideas, first of all. And then he tells me the idea, and then my mind just starts going completely with it, as always. It's never like, I don't get it, or, why are you doing this? Or, you know, it's such a yes and kind of thing. Like the improv days of just supporting and moving forward, because I know any idea he has is going to work. It's just a question of will it work in this particular show, or does it need to be explained, or, you know, it's that kind of stuff.

[Jeff Roberson]

And he can make sense. A lot of times my ideas are very odd, and he can make sense of them, which. He could translate them.

[Brian Knowlton]

I'm a Varla whisperer, basically.

[Sean Hayden]

A Varla whisperer. Yeah.

[Jeff Roberson]

Yes.

[Sean Hayden]

That sounds like a name of another show. The Varla Whisperer.

[Brian Knowlton]

Yeah.

[Jeff Roberson]

We need ideas. We need ideas.

[Sean Hayden]

And then in true drama queen fashion, Jeff, AKA Varla's story, came with a plot twist.

[Jeff Roberson]

Well, I did a thing where I freak out about plastic bags, and we just try to show in the show that my anxiety's at the top and I'm freaking out about the environment and plastic bags, and I find a plastic bag, sort of like, you know, Joan Crawford and wire hangers. What is a plastic bag doing on the stage? I told you, no plastic bags. I freak out, and I have a pill bottle with the Ativan, and I. I put a couple in my martini glass, and I put a couple more, and then I throw the whole pill and I mash it up with a straw and I drink the martini. And then I say, I'm fine, I'm fine. But I started throwing them messier and messier every night because it got more laughs to just, like, you know, just, you know, not to daintily put it in. Well, while I was running across. Across the stage, I just hit it, right? And on a Tic Tac. Yes, a Tic Tac. I was twisting and my leg bent the wrong way. Just snap on the ground. I'm on the floor. My kneecap is almost all the way down my shin. My quad muscles are rolled up like a window shade onto my leg. And I was like, I couldn't move. And my piano player. Everyone was so shocked. He was just staring at me, like. And the music was still going, and people are laughing. They're laughing, laughing. Because it looked like a great prat fall.

[Sean Hayden]

You know, they think it's part of the show.

[Jeff Roberson]

Yes. But I go to the hospital, I'm able to get out of drag because I was like, I'm not going to Hyannis, Massachusetts, with a lady face on and be operator.

[Sean Hayden]

I just want to admire that you were able to take off your face while you. You were in this condition.

[Jeff Roberson]

Well, you know, the fear of thinking, you know, going to Hyannis in an emergency room looking like that.

[Brian Knowlton]

Think about that.

[Jeff Roberson]

My leg is with steel bars on each side. They did an operation on it, and I started to freak out, and I was like, you know what? The season's done. I remember thinking, my career's over. And the next day I was like, oh, my God, I'll just do the show in a wheelchair. And then it was called Ready to Blow on Wheels because I was in a wheelchair. It's so odd that it happened this way, because in the show, I was able to talk about at the end that, thank God I kind of went through all this therapy and anxiety because now this wasn't going to devastate me. I was actually now equipped to deal and manage this, which, you know, this is a physical thing. You know, I was able to deal with it.

[Brian Knowlton]

Right.

[Jeff Roberson]

Because, I mean, that really is. You're not going to perform, you're going to have medical bills. I mean, that's a lot of anxiety. Right. And I think the show and everything was designed so that I would be able to bounce back from that easier. And I was able to kind of apply the same things I did through the panic attack, through that episode in my life, that you have to ride it out and you can't worry about why is this happening. It's too late for that. You gotta move forward. You gotta be present.

[Sean Hayden]

And, yes, Jeff performed the rest of the season in the wheelchair and successfully recovered from his injuries. Jeff, a phrase we use a lot on stage combat is claim your story. May I ask you what that phrase means to you?

[Jeff Roberson]

Yes. You know, I mean, it's just to know your own story and to be able to tell it and to be able to feel it again. I mean, I just never did personal shows. I never did. So I really think this was claiming my story. It was investigating it, and it really forced me to analyze everything from the minute I was born to see why I was having this anxiety. I mean, just to go through everything. And then to do what I do is make it funny, you know what I mean? And to make it relatable to people. So that's what it means to me. Right. Let me just tell you this. Since I started talking about my anxiety, I have not had another anxiety attack. And so I just want to say, if you're having anxiety or depression of any kind, after Covid, do me a favor, go talk to someone. It's half the battle, I promise you.

[Sean Hayden]

A few days later, after talking to Jeff, I got a text from Dr. Elisa Hurwitz. It said, hey, are you in town this week? I would love to have you at the show. I'm doing a talk back for. It was a solo performance show in New York City by Broadway actor Chrissy Whitehead.

[Michael Shirali]

I am originally from Columbia, South Carolina. I live in Washington Heights with my two fur babies, and my husband and I danced since I was 3 years old. Wanted to be a Rockette. I became a Rockette, and then I became an actress and a singer and now an author and a producer and just trying to be an overall okay human being.

[Sean Hayden]

Chrissy made her Broadway debut in the 2006 revival of a Chorus Line. Her auditions for that production, they were chronicled in the 2008 documentary Every Little Step. In her solo show called In My Own Little My Mom, My Moods, and Me, Chrissy explores the story involving her mother's death and coming to terms with being diagnosed with bipolar disorder at age 38.

[Michael Shirali]

It's funny, my friends and even random people used to ask me, chrissy, what are you on? And I would say, life, people.

[Sean Hayden]

I wondered, how do you even start to put that kind of story on the stage? Fortunately, after an email to Chrissy asking her that question, Chrissy and I were chatting a lot, along with her director, Brian Knowlton.

[Michael Shirali]

Bipolar was not on my radar for most of my life.

[Sean Hayden]

When you say it wasn't on your radar, what do you mean by that?

[Michael Shirali]

The fact that somebody thought that I could be bipolar, I just, you know, the stigma in my brain was. Doesn't that mean, like, absolutely bonkers and crazy? And so, yeah, it just wasn't on my radar. Now sadness and depression was on my radar because it all started and stemmed when my mom died of a slow suicide. And then when she died, and then about two years, it took me in my own sadness and depression and not really knowing how to feel about life anymore. And so I wasn't new to medicine because I was on for depression. So when I was in the mountains, living in North Carolina, a Totally different, abrupt, drastic life change from living in New York City, performing on Broadway, eight shows a week in Chicago. I got a new therapist, and I've seen a therapist off and on since I was 25. I'm a big advocate of therapy and getting life skills and tools. And then this therapist was taking handwritten notes for me, and about six months in said, I'm wondering if you should go see a psychiatrist about bipolar disorder.

[Sean Hayden]

Because you weren't like, someone who had not been regularly taking care of their mental health. I mean, you were seeing a therapist. So to get this diagnosis at a somewhat later age must have really kind of come as a shock to you.

[Michael Shirali]

Oh, very, very. And then when she did the screening, it all kind of started to make a little sense, a little bit. Symptoms and traits of mood disorders as identified in the diagnostic and statistical manual addition 5. Wild self confidence. When I answer questions, I'd be like, oh, lots overspending, lack of impulse control, lots of sexual energy, just high energy, talking a lot, distracted. So, yeah, I mean, I guess I could say that I started asking friends like Brian and people that have known me for a long time, and I'd be like, so I'm a little embarrassed and it's a little weird, but I've been diagnosed with bipolar 2 disorder. And does that, like, ring a bell to you at all?

[Sean Hayden]

So let me ask you about that. So you and Brian had known each other how long at that point?

[Michael Shirali]

Brian and I met in 2006.

[Jeff Roberson]

Six.

[Chrissy Whitehead]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayden]

And Brian, when Chrissy asked you that, what did you say to her?

[Chrissy Whitehead]

I didn't know what bipolar meant, but I definitely was ingrained with the stigma. So I think something that I noticed that I kind of just made up an excuse of was the loss of her mom. So I just attached her up and down to that. Not necessarily a diagnosis of bipolar 2, but then, you know, as we, like, dissected it together, I was like, oh, yeah, that clocks. Yeah, that's right. And rather than it be scary, I think it became a celebration of it so that it wasn't so scary.

[Sean Hayden]

Several years later, Chrissy took what she had learned about her bipolar disorder and had her first reading for her show with Brian as her director.

[Michael Shirali]

I was so scared. I mean, I'm not gonna lie. When Brian and I went in day one of our first day of rehearsals for this first reading, I was a scared kitten. Did I want to do this? Did I want to put this out there? Will people not hire me? Because I am saying this, and you don't know how People are going to react to it because of the stigma. And that's the reason why I'm doing it, is to normalize conversations around mental health. Now I don't feel as scared about it, you know?

[Sean Hayden]

Yeah, Chrissy, I felt a lot of the same thing when I came out about having a panic disorder because there's a stigma about that. You know, it's just. It's the cliche. Is everyone going to think I'm crazy? That awful word, right?

[Michael Shirali]

Yeah. And I think. I mean, I gotta be really honest with myself. One thing that I do do is I do constantly look back in and go inward. And there's definitely been behaviors in my past that people could hear this right now and be like, yeah, I remember that girl. I remember that girl being like, woo. You know, and what can I do other than try to, like, educate myself on what I have, Take medicine for it, go to counseling to manage it and to do my best. I'm pretty confident now. In six years of being on medicine, I take lithium twice a day and I practice my tools as best I can. I am not perfect. I'm not here to sit here and say I'm the poster child for bipolar disorder or anything like that. I'm just here to share my story, to help.

[Sean Hayden]

I think we're all trying to figure it out, right, Chrissy? And some of us, maybe we're a little further along than some other people. We're all at certain points in our journey. But I always tell people I'm trying to figure all this out just like you are. And just what can we share that we've learned in our own respective journeys.

[Michael Shirali]

Right, that can help manage it better. And so if we can manage it, manage whatever we have a little bit better, then we're all doing our part to be a little bit of a better human being.

[Sean Hayden]

Was your initial vision of the show? Is that what the show became?

[Chrissy Whitehead]

No, I don't think so.

[Michael Shirali]

I wrote this script and I had a lot of fluff of my career in the show. I think we started out as a. Let's put in all the things that Chrissy's really good at and let's spice in some, like, Rockette stories and some Chicago.

[Chrissy Whitehead]

Yeah, yeah. It was more of a showmanship of, like, a celebration of work with lots of sprinkles of mom and her bipolar. But then what the show is now is it's truly a love story between a mother and a daughter and being a detective in your own life and how you can service yourself so that you can be a better human.

[Sean Hayden]

Yeah. Christa, you say you were. I believe you were talking about, as actors, we're forced to be detectives. Right. To figure out our characters. And then you say you're forced to become a detective again.

[Michael Shirali]

But this time I was to step into my own shoes and figure out.

[Sean Hayden]

My own story, which is the same thing I did in stage combat.

[Michael Shirali]

I mean, I have all my scrapbooks. I have all my scrapbooks. I have my mom's scrapbooks. I've really loved being a detective and then sharing my mom with my family because I almost see family because she's no longer here with me. So that keeps her alive. And my doing the show, it keeps her alive by doing all the detective work.

[Sean Hayden]

So let's talk about that, because your show is not just about coming to grips with your bipolar disorder, but it's also a love story about a very complicated relationship with your mother. And there's also some secrets that are revealed in the show that we're not going to reveal here for the integrity of the show. So you had two big hurdles. How do you tell the story of your bipolar disorder, but also this very personal and if I may say so, this very dark story involving your mother and your own identity.

[Michael Shirali]

Yeah.

[Sean Hayden]

How did you get to the point where you were comfortable doing that?

[Michael Shirali]

I'm still not comfortable.

[Sean Hayden]

I appreciate that.

[Michael Shirali]

Yeah. I'm still uncomfortable. Yeah. I was just telling Brian today on the phone that I was like, I'm okay with talking about the bipolar disorder, because that's me. It's harder for me to go tell an audience that I don't know about my mom.

[Sean Hayden]

Because, Chrissy, you're in incredibly honest in the show.

[Michael Shirali]

Yeah. Because my mom couldn't.

[Sean Hayden]

Your mom couldn't what?

[Michael Shirali]

I do believe her secrets killed her. She couldn't tell me the truth about my life, and. But yet she loved me beyond belief. So it's very hard to have a mom that you had that loves you more than life itself and then was lying to you the whole time. So that's hard. And so I decided to tell mom's story because it's so tragic. I thought, I don't want her life to go for naught. I actually want people to know of her as the legacy of how much she loved me and also what she put herself through. And I know there are people out there that are holding on to secrets. Secrets are just so sick. They make you sick. I don't believe people face reality enough. I just don't. Because when you face reality and you face what you are so scared of, it dissipates.

[Sean Hayden]

Can we talk about what the audience reaction has been to the show?

[Michael Shirali]

I mean, I've never experienced anything like that before in my life. Like, I mean, Brian and I, we were just like. That just happened tonight.

[Sean Hayden]

Are you talking about the New York show?

[Michael Shirali]

Yes, the New York City show with Abron's Art Center.

[Sean Hayden]

So you come out. I was like. Because I didn't know you, Chrissy. And I was like, I just have to say this. You come out with the most welcoming aura, Persona, energy. But I was like, oh, my God, how wonderful that you came out to check on everyone before we go down this dark path. And I'm thinking, how dark can it get? And it gets pretty dark. But I thought, I love this person so much, and I can't wait to hear her story. You were trying to care for the audience.

[Michael Shirali]

Yeah.

[Jeff Roberson]

Wow.

[Michael Shirali]

Thank you for saying that. That's exactly what it is. It's house lights up is what happens. I talk to the audience, I say, welcome. I say, we're checking in. Hang in with me. It's going to be a little bit of a bumpy ride, but there should be some hope at the end. I'm so glad you were there, Sean. Like, yay, thanks for coming.

[Sean Hayden]

Well, I am, too, and it was remarkable because what I saw, there were a lot of people with bipolar disorder that really identified with you. And it's the same thing we have found in this podcast is that ultimately what so many people are looking for is community, the feeling of not being alone, to have shared stories together. And that's what I saw in the audience. What was it like for you on the stage? Cause you did a talk back.

[Michael Shirali]

The audience talk back was incredible to hear the fact that, like, the three people that spoke up also had bipolar. I said, welcome to Bipolar Bear Sister. Which somebody had told me when I said I had bipolar. And they told me they had bipolar. And they were like, welcome, you're a bipolar bear.

[Sean Hayden]

A bipolar bear. Is that a thing? It is.

[Michael Shirali]

It's a thing. It's a thing. I was like, well, it's a thing I think that somebody made up. And now I've been sharing it. So when I meet someone that's a bipolar, I'm like, oh, hi, bipolar bear, sister, brother, human, whatever, you know, so it's fun.

[Sean Hayden]

Yeah.

[Chrissy Whitehead]

That results of specifically, like, at the talk back, I literally sat in my chair and I was like, this is why we're literally doing this. Like, I'm seeing it in real time from another Human being affected by art. By art, yeah. By the work and the beauty that everybody has contributed to this particular story.

[Michael Shirali]

I think that this is what my mom has, like, trained me to do. She's trained me to be with people, and I love being with people. So part of this show is. I know now is not just the show. And then I go home, and then I go out the stage door and I put on my hat and I, like, bounce out. Like, the part of the show is saying people want to be seen, heard, and celebrated. And so I gotta be able to be there. The first thing that happened to me, I'll never forget it, because it was the first one. This woman came straight up to me right after it was over, and she was like, you have to meet my son. She goes, he. He is here. And he has had anxiety, cannot be around anybody. He doesn't do any social groups. He's in his late 20s, and he sat through your whole show. You need to meet my son. And so I said, okay, I'm going to meet your son. And so, you know, mom used to say, I just wish. I wish she was still around because she. She really was like. She really meant so well. And she used to say to me, chrissy, who did you talk to today at school? And I'd say, I don't know yet. She was like, find them. Find the person who's walking down the hallway and has their eyes down on the ground. Say hello. Say hi. It means something. It means something.

[Sean Hayden]

So we have many of our listeners saying they're trying to develop their own material to tell their own mental health stories. And what would be your advice to someone who really doesn't even kind of know where to start? How do you start to tell your story? To perhaps put it into a solo performance show?

[Michael Shirali]

My first instinct, just to be funny, but true. Hire an amazing dramaturg. Because that's what we got in our second reading. But my first reading was, it was a book. I just started writing chapters. I literally was like, chapter one, mom and Me. And I just started writing about mom and me. Just write chapter two. This other person in my life. How did that happen? Where did it start? How did I come to be in there in my life? You just write, right?

[Sean Hayden]

Yeah, Chrissy, I did the same thing. I thought of Stage Combat in chapters. I knew the titles.

[Michael Shirali]

Yes, it helped.

[Sean Hayden]

It did. Just giving it a title, and it changed it totally. But I plotted it out, and then I just started writing. And the dramaturg's role was what Chrissy.

[Michael Shirali]

So The dramaturg's role. So he takes the script and then he starts streamlining to see, okay, why this story? What is the reasoning? Why? He kind of comes in and looks at the whole thing and then says, what's the point? Why are we doing this? Why is the story? What are you trying to get across?

[Sean Hayden]

And, Brian, what insights do you have? What would you say to someone who's listening and was thinking, I want to try to go the solo performance route to tell my story?

[Chrissy Whitehead]

I would say what I've learned in the past two years is, take your time. Take your time and listen to yourself. Utilize other people to get their insight as to what they think of the material or how they think about the progression of something. It takes a multitude of people to run a ship, not just one person. I say that all the time. But having that insight from others will help you elevate your experience and stay true to it. So there's no rush. Like, just take your time and make sure that you're doing your story justice.

[Sean Hayden]

What do you hope an audience member takes away from seeing? In my own little corner, mine would be hope.

[Chrissy Whitehead]

We have a projection, a slide that beams up hope at one point in the show, and we've spent many minutes looking at as to where it goes in the show, and we finally found it. But hope that it's gonna work out okay. And knowing that with support and with love and kindness that you can reach that hope to get you to the other side of whatever you might be going through, whether that be with a family member, a friend, a lover, that the other side is hope.

[Michael Shirali]

I would say inspiration for those who are seeking answers, which I think we all are at some point in our lives, to seek answers inside themselves, to have hope and empathy and compassion towards anybody in their lives that may be struggling mentally and hold space for them. The truth is, it's something that's just a part of me, and that's okay. I found clarity, but I'm still messy. I found love, but I still get sad. And I found medicine, but I'm not cured. However, when I faced my truth, all of it, I was set free.

[Sean Hayden]

I really enjoyed chatting with both Jeff and Chrissy. It's a really big step to share your mental health story, to put it out there. But telling your story can be just a matter of being willing to reach out, to share what you're going through. And for that, you don't need a writer, a dramaturg, a director, or a theater. Sometimes the only stage you need is. Is a Frenzier. Coming up next on Stage Combat. Well, that was kind of what I.

[Michael Shirali]

Think the thing you and I talked.

[Sean Hayden]

About, I think when I mentioned family, was this idea of like, if you've always been seeking family, then what is family to you?

[Jeff Roberson]

And if you've never experienced it and.

[Sean Hayden]

Then you come into a community of.

[Jeff Roberson]

People who've never experienced it and they're.

[Sean Hayden]

All trying to create a family and you, you're just going to end up.

[Jeff Roberson]

With a dysfunctional system.

[Sean Hayden]

What could possibly go wrong?

[Michael Shirali]

I sometimes wonder.

[Sean Hayden]

And it's not worth.

[Michael Shirali]

Really thinking too much about.

[Sean Hayden]

No, no. What? Tell me. It just pops into my brain every now and then. Like, if I had had a more emotionally available family system growing up, would I have ever really pursue the theater professionally? My talk with Brett and Michael that night really got me to thinking about family. It's a word that's probably on everyone's mind right now with Thanksgiving just a few weeks away. But I'm not thinking about the effect of that word at the holiday table. I'm wondering what is the effect of the use of of family and the places where we work? I'm Sean Hayden and you're listening to episode nine of season three of Stage Combat, the F Word. You can hear more of my conversations with Jeff and Chrissy over at our bonus content on Patreon where Jeff talks about about the effect of political attacks on drag from the right and Chrissy gives us the scoop on her appearance in the Chorus Line documentary Every Little Step. Plus, I'll be diving deeper into this episode in our Sean Goes Off Script segment. Plus, at Patreon, you can enjoy our all new Stage Combat podcast series which have been created exclusively for our backstage pass holders. Just follow the link in the show notes to join the Stage Combat community over at Patreon. And just a reminder to our Stage Combat listeners, if you believe in what we are doing in this podcast and you want us to continue to do this work, your support at Patreon is the best way to help us do that. Be sure to follow Varla G. Merch Merman's future appearances on Instagram @varlajeanmerman and [e-mail] and you can follow Chrissy on Instagram at Chrissy Whitehead and online@chrissy whitehead.com just a reminder, this conversation should not be considered a substitute for medical or mental health advice. So if you are experiencing any medical or mental health issues, please seek independent medical advice from a healthcare professional professional. And remember, if you are in crisis, help is available by dialing or texting 988 to the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. This episode was edited by Alex Griffith, mixing and sound design were by Justin Garish, and it was written and directed by me, Sean Hayden for Heywood Productions. We love hearing from you. This season is always about your stories, so send us a DM at Instagram @StageCombatthePodcast IG or an [e-mail] I hope today and every day gives you an opportunity to claim your story. Stage Combat is a production of Heywood Productions llc.